How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Failure Throwback: Bear Grylls

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Bear Grylls has achieved worldwide fame as one of the most recognised faces of survival and outdoor adventure. A former SAS soldier, he has climbed Everest, circumnavigated the British Isles on a jet ski, rowed naked in a bathtub along the Thames and once broke his back in a parachuting accident. But he's most famous for his TV career. He starred in seven seasons of the Discovery Channel’s Emmy Award-nominated Man vs. Wild TV series and hosted Running Wild, which has featured Bear taking President Obama, Julia Roberts, Roger Federer, Will Ferrell, Channing Tatum, and Kate Winslet on extreme adventures. Bear is thoughtful, open and surprisingly gentle. This conversation will make you reflect on resilience, bravery and what it really means to keep moving forward when things fall apart. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 03:00 Living with nerves and self-doubt 07:12 Public success versus private fear 13:45 Losing his father and learning to live with grief 18:10 Breaking his back and rebuilding confidence 23:40 Faith, inner voices and self-belief 29:05 Courage, fear and moving towards the difficult things 35:20 Failing SAS selection and earning confidence 41:00 TV failure, risk and starting again 46:40 Why giving up is the only real failure 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: The only real failure is when we give up. You can't be a brave person without the fear... just not having fear and doing it mindlessly is- that's just stupidity. That's not courage. Those failures are the stepping stones. They’re the scars I’m proud of. The truth is we tend to stand on the shoulders of many. Beautiful people and giants who've helped us and been kind to us and encouraged us, and supported us and elevated us over themselves. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Never Give Up by Bear Grylls Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join Elizabeth Day for a special How to Fail live show at Crossed Wires Festival in Sheffield! Tickets on sale now: https://crossedwires.live/podcast/how-to-fail 📚 WANT MORE? Mo Gawdat - on grief, resilience and rebuilding life after loss https://link.chtbl.com/fnA5IzTi Tom Daley - the Olympic diver talks about pressure, fear and public failure, alongside the discipline and mental strength it takes to keep showing up at the highest level. https://play.megaphone.fm/deiztbmwsrw-vz5by9ajtw Matt Haig - the bestselling author on mental health, survival and learning to keep going through periods of despair, anxiety and self-doubt https://link.chtbl.com/u2XVtjE7 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You lovely listeners, happy New Year's Eve to all of you, wherever and however you are celebrating. And to add to the celebration, I thought I'd give you a little throwback episode. This one was first recorded in May 2023, and it's with the wonderful Bear Grills, who obviously many of you will know, as one of the most recognized faces of survival and outdoor adventure. I hope you enjoy. Does anyone really know what hormones do? There is so much talk about women's hormonal health, but most women are left even more confused about what it means for them and what to do about it. This confusion ends now. Hormone harmony is a game changer for women struggling with hormonal

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from women worldwide, and 98% of them say they'd recommend it to their friends and family. For a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happy mammoth.com. Just use the code Happy 15 at checkout. Joel Domit, shall we tell these wonderful people about the new business that we're starting? Good idea, Ben Shepard, especially if we want them to come along for the ride. Which is exactly what we want. Quite simply, we are starting a business. We're starting a brand.

This is not going to be a television show. There's no bright lights and make up. This is very, very real, Ben. We've got no idea how to do it, but we are going to share the whole journey with you right here on our brand new podcast. The Businessmen podcast, out now. Bear Grills has so many achievements to his name that it's hard to list them all. But for starters, he's climbed Everest, circumnavigated the British Isles on a jet ski, rode naked in a bathtub along the Thames,

and set a world record for the highest open-air formal dinner party under a hot air balloon at 7,600 metres while wearing full mess dress and an oxygen mask. All of this might sound a bit exhausting to an average punter, but Grills is a former soldier in the British Special Forces and over the years has become one of the most recognised faces of survival and outdoor adventure. He starred in seven seasons of the Discovery Channel's Emmy Award-nominated Man versus Wild,

reaching an estimated 1.2 billion viewers. The global hit TV show, Running Wild with Bear Grills, featured celebrity guests such as Julia Roberts, Roger Federer and President Barack Obama trying to survive extremes. Grills' autobiography, Mud, Sweat and Tears, spent 15 weeks at number one in the Sunday Times bestseller list, and he has written over 90 books selling in excess of 20 million copies worldwide. His latest, Never Give Up, was published in 2021.

Grills is an honorary colonel to the Royal Marines Commandos, the youngest ever UK Chief Scout and an OBE. But despite, or perhaps because of all this success, He's also someone who shares my attitude to failure. According to Grills, dealing with failure has been the key to any success in my life. Bear Grills, welcome to How to Fail. Gosh, yeah. Your life in a nutshell. Sweet, it's sweet introduction.

I mean, I sit there thinking the alternative one might be more like grills is much less sure of himself than that other introduction might make out. he's been hiding in the loo downstairs for the last 10 minutes and clutches his cup of tea frantically as a nervous sort of you know and of his 96 books he's written 15 of them are colouring in books for kids so that might be a more honest one but I appreciate your introduction thank you

it's a pleasure are you actually nervous I spend so much my life nervous and I always kind of hope and think that as they get older and do more see more survive more scrape through more thing that the nerves would get better but actually I think I think they probably get worse but I've learned not to run from them and to be okay with them and to treat it like a friend and to treat it like you know what means we're we're on the edge you know my edge might get less extreme but we're on the edge and we're doing stuff and we're and you've got to

keep that muscle that inner muscle kind of going haven't you and trying to do the difficult stuff so I do struggled a lot with nerves, but that's okay. When you say you think that they've got worse, is that because you're aware that you have more to lose, the older you get? I think it's more that I think the public persona, because of the TV shows where everything's always great and the music's thumping, we're swinging off everything and diving in and, you know, taking amazing people on great adventures. And, you know, it feels ever more inflated like the perfect, so the great stuff goes out there. That's what gets shown. And I, suppose the nerves in me come from, I feel the gulf between that and actually, you know,

the real person gets bigger. But I haven't changed. It's just that balloon's got more inflated and sort of bigger. And suddenly, you know, I started off climbing with my dad as a kid. And then that grew into something else. And then before I knew, we'd start a little club at a school. And then there you go. And then you'd join the army. And then you start going up in that war. And then you try some expeditions and the mountains get bigger. And the balloon sort of gets bigger. And And before you know it, the TV shows and then they get bigger. But over here on this hand, I'm still that same kid who wants to climb up the tree and hide away, scared of getting my GCSE envelope through the door.

You know, nothing's really changed. So I think if I'm being really honest, the nerves come from aware of that probably not as great and strong and brave and brilliant as sometimes the TV shows make out. But I've also learned that that is okay. You know, we're all human. The more we're vulnerable with people, the more connection we create with people. And the real wealth in all of our lives always come through connection, whether it's with our kids or with our spouse or with our friends or with an audience.

So I'm not afraid to share that, but it is probably the truth. Apart from the SAS and the Daring Do and the naked bathtubs and the global TV success and the best-selling books, I feel like we're the same person. Because everything you've just said there is exactly what I think, and I relate so deeply. And it's an incredibly beautiful thing for you to share at the top of this interview. Because now there's already that profound connection. Yeah. I completely...

Well, it's so important. You know, you've got to have that, haven't you? And I think I've learned it so much as well in the speaking world, which was such a big part of my world before the TV staff. And I still do a lot of it. The adventure world is full of very butch, er, alpha, er, black. jackets, muscles, you know, and it's never interested me, you know, so from early days, really, even from the military staff, actually, ironically, even though I was in a, you know, a regiment, you know, in 21 SAS, which was on the surface of it all quite gung-ho. The irony is

the guys were the most grounded, real, honest, often vulnerable people, and not the gung-ho one. So I always kind of found a home from early years in that ethos. But I've learned we're speaking, you know, I do the motivational stuff and some, you know, explore will come before and speak and stand up and nobody cares how much, it's that thing, what is it, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And it's that same sort of thing. If nobody cares how many things you've conquered or flags on summits you've plund, it has no meaning unless there's honesty and fragility with it. And I've just learned through experiences, the more you share the struggles, the other stuff has meaning anyway.

You talk a lot about the danger of ego, and you write a lot about that in a way that I find really fascinating. And I suppose the irony is that TV and a TV career in many ways can fuel an ego and speak to it and make it bigger. So is that something that you struggle with? Do you watch yourself back on TV ever? I used it in the very early days I did and then wince and go, oh, this is terrible. If I'd started my career now, I wouldn't have had a career because it would have got canned. so early. I think I was lucky that 15 years ago when I started TV, it was less ruthless, I think, TV and people would give me another chance. You know, our ratings have never been

brilliant. We've always just been good enough. And it's just the irony is that's seen us through for year upon year upon year and season upon season because we've just made it, you know. But I think people backed me in the early years in TV and it gave me enough time. It took me like four or five years of seasons of shows to begin to learn how to do it. so I could get a little better at it, but I certainly don't watch any of the shows now. I find it too uncomfortable. I just really don't enjoy it.

And I kind of think, do you know what? I prefer to hang out with the boys, with the family. I've got really other things that would be higher up my motivation of how to spend the time, is the honest answer. But it's interesting because, you know, you say TV sort of can fuel the ego stuff. And it's interesting, I wonder whether just success generally does that. You know, it doesn't matter what feel you.

I think if you feel your, winning in life, that can always be dangerous because it fuels anyone's ego. And I think like big mountains, it can bring out the best and the worse than people. And I think success is like that. It can bring out monsters. It can create monsters, inflate the monsters, or it can give you a chance for something beautiful to come out. And it's that thing of if you want to see what someone's like, give them a hard time. But if you want to see what they're really like, give them everything. I think so much of life is like that and therefore if you are lucky enough to win it a few things

whether it's your career or other things be humble because it's kind of there by the grace of God go all of us it's kind of what I feel your new book never give up but you have this line in it about how if you sit on the summit too long you die

tell us about that because it's true and it's a great metaphor but you climbed Everest were one of the youngest people ever to do so And I want to know what that experience was life But it's actually true, isn't it? That the summit is the most dangerous point. So what do you want?

Do you want the physical or do you want the metaphor? Well, start with a physical. Okay, I'll tell you with the physical. The truth is, stay on the summit's too long you die. It is that is a true mantra in terms of high altitude mountaineering. And the most dangerous time is always on the way down because all the focus in the adrenaline is for the top, the dream, the effort. And then you kind of want to be able to click your fingers and be safe and hurt.

home, but the truth is your furthest point from safety and home. And once that adrenaline, a focus goes, it gets replaced fast by fatigue and exhaustion. And look at the story of, you know, Spencer's brother on Everest. It's the same thing. You know, once come, it's always on the way down. So Spencer Matthews's brother and you've just produced this phenomenal documentary about finding Michael about Spencer trying to recover his brother's body up there. But so many of the fatalities on the high mountain has happened on that descent for that reason. You know, that adrenaline gets replaced by that deep fatigue. And therefore, in a way, it's easy to be focused when you're aiming for our summits in life. Everyone has that. The character comes through. Can you be

focused not only for your own descent back to real life, but also maybe when you've got to suddenly now help somebody else. You know, now when things are going wrong, it's that mantra of adventure only happens when things begin to go wrong. You know, it's easy to be gung-ho and great and adrenaline filled and focus when you know what's happening and you're aiming for that summit, but you really learn about people. It's that same thing. You learn when the things go wrong when you're fatigued and when the triumph is over. I write about it in the book in the sense that I'm very nervous ever of kind of standing going, look at me, aren't I great? Because the truth is, none of us are that great. Most of us, if we get to the top of something in our life,

whatever that triumph is, the truth is we tend to stand on the shoulders of many beautiful people and giants who've helped us and been kind to us and encouraged us and supported us and elevated us over themselves and therefore to stand on a summit on your own is a lonely place. To stand alongside close friends is beautiful but above all know that what it's taken to get you there

is often the love and the support and the energy of many other people who never get to stand there. Don't sit on the laurels too long is what I'm saying. Don't pack yourself on the back, get back into the valleys because the valleys is where the character's made really. Summits are the glory moments, they're the easy moments.

Once the sun dips and you're back in the valley, then we learn about people. And when you're climbing at that altitude, I'm interested in the physicality of that. I've experienced altitude sickness when I've gone skiing as a child. Okay, so that's the closest thing I had, which was unpleasant and nauseating. But do you feel like your lungs, what's the actual physical experience of trying to breathe and move? Yeah. It's actually very hard to describe the real high altitude. effects of being in that death zone above 25, 26 sands feet. It's very hard to describe.

But I think you say, what do you say, nauseating and suddenly? I just felt sick. Basically, you just turn the dial up, turn the dial up and you can turn it right up. But you even saw in the finding Michael Premier that you came to the other day, my team that have lived with me for many years, helping me with my work world and heard my Everest story many times. You know, a lot of them came out of that Premier going, God, I actually had no idea just how debilitating it is at altitude. And you see that even with some of the great Sherpa climbers and those guys, how hard it was even for them up there

trying to do that body recovery and search. So it is hard. I always say it's a bit like trying to climb in waist-deep treacle whilst giving somebody a piggyback and then they're trying to stuff a pair football socks down your throat at the same time. You know, you're sucking, you're wheezing, you're not moving, you're sliding backwards.

But it's minus 40 and you feel up against it. And many times I think back to that time, on Everest and I watched that film that we worked together and it brings a lot of those memories back but those loud voice in the back of my head going you're never going to make this you know especially I mean we were there 93 days or whatever and I remember that summit attempt from that last camp that last push you know you've given your everything we'd I'd taken a year out for the army to train for this we were like super focused we've been there these 90 odd days but the weather's turning it's minus whatever it's dark you got this ice face of 2,000 feet

of just chest deep, powder snow in front of you and I'm sliding back with every step and I just had that voice going, what are you doing? You are never, ever going to make it. And it's like we have that voice. The dial isn't always turned up to 10 like that in everyday life, but it has moments, all of us.

And we all face our Everest every day in different ways, in relationships and in battles and health stuff. But it's like knowing the good voice and knowing the bad voice and try and try and just go, I know that's how I might feel, but we've got this. And they're trying to tune in the voice on the other shoulder that says, keep going, quietly, focus, just one foot in front of the other, day by day,

breath by breath, hold the hands of those around you, keep moving. Love, you know, there's power to that. It's why the book was always going to be called Never Give Up. You know, it's not rocket science. And who are those voices for you? Because some people give the inner critic the voice of a harsh teacher or a critical parent. Part of my issue is that my inner critic is just me. It doesn't have an outside voice. Well, we could be our harshest critic, as you know. Do you know who they are? I mean, I know,

Rand Fein always says it was his father who died when he was very young. He'd always imagine his dad standing beside him. But it's quite a harsh dad of like, do not, don't you dare give up. You know, mine wasn't some adventure figure willing me on. I don't know. Mine's just that inner voice. It can be a darker voice on one shot of like, critical. But I've just learned through experience over the years to try and discern the voices. And generally, I think we've got a subconscious and a heart and a soul or a spirit or whatever you call it that is for us. It is for us. It wants to heal. It wants to strengthen. It wants to help. I mean, it does. It's just your subconscious wants to help you.

And I think it's discerning that voice. And I think for me, my faith plays a part of that. Having a sort of Christian faith definitely is that in a voice of love, of acceptance, of kind of forgiveness and strength. And for me, it's always been that, like, inner backbone, that secret backbone inside. And trying to hear that voice, it is full of love and encouragement. Shortly before you summited Everest, you broke your back in a parachuting accident

and had 10 hours a day rehab for the best part of a year. What did that rehab teach you? Again, I'm not as strong as I sometimes have. hope I am. I was at a stage of life age 21, 22, where I felt invincible. I was doing a job that I loved, you know, in the military, and I felt strong. I felt strong. But as you know, it doesn't take much in life to change that. And suddenly being in that hospital, strapped up in braces and struggling to reach a bathroom without pain and not a chance when you had to reach a bathroom on the floor above me in any capacity. Life has a way of humbling us all. The dial on that can

turn up in different ways. But that definitely was a real kind of shock. And I think for me, it would not my confidence above everything at that stage where I'd gone from like lots of confidence. I can do this. I'm doing a job that I love with the people I love. I'm in that zone to actually how quickly it can go to feel like a disaster. And our legs have been taken out from under us. And I was going to have that as one of my failures with you. But it felt maybe an obvious one. So I wasn't going to have that. It was a really tough time. of kind of like trying to figure out, what the hell am I going to do now? Now I can't do this job that I was loving.

And the chances of ever climbing anything again is ridiculous. What am I actually going to do? But I do look back at the same time and I think, if I hadn't have gone through that, would I have ever actually, as I started to recover, would I have had the strength of like, will to go, no, I'm going to get better. I'm going to reach that bathroom on the floor upstairs. And I'm going to go further and again and harder. And I'm going to get strong enough to eventually climb the big.

biggest mountain in the world that became the whole focus of my recovery. And I just felt like life has given me a precious second chance. We don't always get that. I should have been paralyzed. That accident, I mean, it broke through my back in three places, but it should have paralyzed me. And I've been given a second chance and don't waste it. You're going to live every day for the rest of your life with smile and gratitude. How many bad stuff happens? Like, everything's a gift. Everything is a gift. Let's get on to your first failure. Your less obvious failures

Not that that was your failure Your first one is losing your dad When you were young I'm so sorry You're so sweet I appreciate you saying that No it's like listen Everyone goes too lost

And mine is no worse than anyone's But I was thinking Is that a failure You know But failure comes in many forms Doesn't it And you know It's that thing of sometimes

Just a disaster Yes Can be the hardest ones Yes Because they're outside of our control. You know, somehow when we fail of our own, there's a way out and through, get stronger, get better, get smarter, get, you know, go again. But I think sometimes when things are outside of our control and just life, those can be hard and personal. And I look back on that time and I feel I was ill-equipped to deal with trauma.

At a young age in my sort of mid-20s, I just got married to Shara and we got married young. And we were starting out on life together and it was an adventure. but we always had that backstop you know she had her mom and dad I had my mom and dad we could live life boldly and go for things as we were and let's we'll live on a houseboat and we'll do a whack it I'll try and follow this career path of like doing the path less trodden and try and do adventures and we could do all this because there's always a backstop and in year one a marriage Sharra's father died of MS and literally 10 weeks later my dad died totally out of the blue and so first of all we were dealing with the trauma of shara

who'd grown up and had all through a teenage years her dad slowly dying which was beyond traumatic for her and still a sort of wound for her for sure and she's just been an amazing lady and daughter and wonderful but that was a very hard time for her and then suddenly my dad out of the blue died and you know policemen came around to our houseboat knocked on the door and we were like what just literally felt like they're sort of legs taken out underneath me when my legs had always been strong you know I'd always had good foundation I was strong

and it literally just cut them out from under me and I felt ill-equipped I think at that age to deal with it and I was already on the back foot with Porchara and everything she was going through and now I wasn't on any feet and then we had our two mothers you know we had the wailing mothers and suddenly it was like now the dynamic

and a heartbeat has changed from having a backstop to now like we're now responsible for our mothers and we've got to look after them and that 50 pounds that my dad always still gave me this allowance ever since I was 17 and it never stopped it until I was like 23 and it was always the unspoken thing all the little silly things like that you know suddenly the dynamics reverse and now we've got to get on we've got to make something of our lives no more messing around Now you've got to look at your risk profile of how are you really going to live your life? You're going to spend your time like this? Is it worth it?

Can you do it? Can you pull off a career like this? You're also going to look after each other and the mother. So it was definitely, I looked back. I struggled a lot. And I don't think I expressed that very well, apart from just in quiet sort of panic and leaning on each other. It brought us very close, year one, a marriage. I look back now and I think, wow, actually, that was a hurricane.

But it really made us cling to each other and actually created a lot of the families. for our life, you know, like, you don't have the luxury of, like, just arguing stupidly about things. Like, don't waste your time in it. Just be humble with each other, love each other, be committed to each other, make things work. You can't afford the luxury of screwing up. We need our family good. We need each other's back. We're starting off on a difficult path. We've got to have each other's back on this. Do you mind my asking how he died? He wasn't ill, you know, so he died out of the blue. He was having a pacemaker fitted because he said to me, oh, my heart rate apparently is low. They said, I should get a pacemaker fitted. And he was

down in Dorset. And I said, oh, come down. I come down and hold your hand and we'll take you in. So I did that. Took him into the hospital. And they weird him into his routine, quick operation. And I remember saying to the doctor, said, will you let me stay in for the operation? They said, we can't do that. And it's about one of the only times I pulled out my S-A-S-I-D card. I said, will you let me in? I'm a qualified patrol medic, you know, sort of slightly blustering it. But they went, okay, and they got me gowned up. And I was there with the doctors who's doing it. It was amazing watching it. And I was thinking, this looks good. And, you know, I held my dad's hand. And he came out. And he was okay. And he said, you've got to go. You've got to go back to

to show. Go back to London. I said, you sure? And he was so grateful that I'd been with him throughout, held his hand through in and out. And I got my bind. And I got my bind. and I bribed the train and said you're back to London. And then literally the next morning, my mum, where she didn't even ring me, it was just the police from turning up. And he'd just set up in bed in the morning. And my mum said, literally the light just went out.

And he was 66 and it's so crazy and felt unnecessary as well. You know, somehow, you know, we all know life is hard and like somehow with Sharra's dad, it was just this relentless process of attrition of fighting and fighting and fighting, but you're fighting against nature and disaster. disease and you don't always win, you know. But I think with my dad, because it was so unexpected, it felt like, wow, could we not. Surely we could have done something about it? Why? Hold on,

hold on, stop. That's what it felt like. And I felt like I'd missed a beat. What have I missed here? Why? And I think those answers don't go away. And I actually really, I miss my dad every day still in a way ever more so with our three boys you know we've got three wonderful i mean they're all teenagers now isn't one of them in their 20s no no jesse's 19 now 16 okay and 13 and i just think gosh my dad would love them you know the wild part of my dad that that kind of rule-breaking adventure practical joking messing around laughing itself side of my dad there was always rich and bright is rich and right in our three boys, and he would love them and they would love him. So that's the sadness, but that's also life. I think you've spoken about that so profoundly, and I know lots of

people will hugely relate and feel very comforted by your words. To go back to what you were saying about failure, I think that you're right, there are two different types. There's the failure when life doesn't go according to plan when you fail your driving test, or you fail SAS selection, which we're coming on to. And there's the cataclysmic failure which happens to you and is like your father dying, totally out of the blue,

or a global pandemic. And those failures in and of themselves have no meaning within them. But my belief is that living alongside them and the grief and the pain that they might cause teaches us something. Yeah.

There's no question there. I just wanted to say that. You're right. I'm aware that it's a different kind of failure. Life teaches us. You know, it's like a, I say life is humbling at every step of the way. Yeah.

And if you don't feel that, life, it doesn't care. It's just going to keep doing it. I wanted to ask you. I do think life brings us together, though. Yes, I do too. If you allow it. With good people, you know, that we meet continued day to day. And if you let it, that's a wonderful thing to be brought together to good people.

And that's why the vulnerability is so important because without that there's no connection. Exactly. And it's something I lean on more, more in my life. It's just those friendships. It's our only real wealth in our life. You know, we spend so much time pursuing other wealth. But none of that's real. You know, it has no real value.

The only real wealth we have in our lives, it's always going to be rooted in the quality of our relationships. It's why you can say to, you know, is that billionaire whose kids don't speak to him? Is he really rich? You know, and we all know all of this stuff. But sometimes I need reminding it's like the real stuff is always in the relationships.

I wanted to ask you because you mentioned there that you found it hard other than Shara to talk about what you were going through and I'm aware that you were sent to boarding school at a young age. I was sent to boarding school too at a slightly older age and I'm sure you're also aware that this condition has now been invented or credited which is boarding school syndrome which is a sort of dislocation of emotion. Oh it's really interesting it's sort of all the stuff that we probably would take for granted which is like you feel very detached from your parents, not emotionally, but you feel like you still feel that loss that you had this distance, this wrench from your parents as a young age, and that can lead to emotional repression

and it can, especially for men, lead to problems later in life. That's my roundabout way of asking what boarding school was like for you, but also whether you feel that you would doubly cheated of time with your father, because you had those years away from him too. I think that was my overriding sense of loss was like, which should be just sudden to spend our time together. Yes, yes. So that was hard. I think the thing with boarding school,

there's no doubt where you say it's true. And I definitely felt that because I was so close to my parents to keep growing up, especially wonderful, cozy times all the time. So going away was hard. But the same time, I'm always mindful of not sort of blaming. You know, I went to amazing schools with lovely people. and made great friends. But it doesn't take away from the fact that I felt ill-equipped at a young age

to be going away and definitely felt a sadness there. And it made me probably quite shy at a young age, a little bit kind of insular. Yeah, I had a much more extrovert older sister who loved the limelight. And I was always hiding away, but I was always like the younger brother, come and dance like a seal for my friends and eat some raw bacon and just do as you're told.

okay you know so I was always hiding and I think school felt scary and the solution was to hide so I was always hiding which is why there's always still that natural tension for me and my job now of like having a job that's always filmed you're always on camera for stuff and I really struggle with it still to this day our crew on our TV shows know it they try to not let me know that they're filming and it's just like I'll go let's go let's just go so then there's never an action And there's never a, oh, could you do that again? Or what did, you know, it's like, just go. Yeah.

And there's an energy and a pace. In the early days, nobody would think it would work. And they'd probably be right, but somehow it did. And that energy stayed. And we, over the years, just thought, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Let bear go. Keep the cameras rolling. And I sort of, I suppose, I continue running away from the cameras.

It's essentially what the show is. That was so interesting. Yeah, it really is. And I struggle with it. But it's become a necessary part of my job. You know, I'm always like, their joke is always, you'd just love to do it without the cameras. Like, I'd love to do it without, like, it would transform everything. It'd be something a pleasant experience rather than, like, a mission to get through.

Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame You don't say Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow

Talk about fast Wow, way to go So about that picture frame Ah forget about it Until Carvana makes one I'm not interested Car Selling Made Easy On

Carvana Pick up these may apply Joel Domit Shall we tell these wonderful people About the new business that we're starting Good idea, Ben Shepard Especially if we want them to come along for the ride Which is exactly what we want

Quite simply, we are starting a business, we're starting a brand. This is not going to be a television show. There's no bright lights and make up. This is very, very real, man. We've got no idea how to do it, but we are going to share the whole journey with you right here on our brand new podcast. The Businessmen podcast, out now. When was the first time you thought to yourself? I love adventure and that's what I want to do for a little.

living. Did you love Biggles as a child? Well, I don't think it was as articulate as I love adventure. It was more like, I don't think I could do anything. This is the only thing I've ever been okay at. And even that I'm not particularly brilliant at it, but I really love it. And it was always what I did with my dad. And it brought us close. And I kind of, that became an identity for me and what I loved. You gravitate, I think, when you're nervous in life to what you feel naturally good at and what you like. And that's all I've ever done. It's just gravitate naturally to what I've liked and felt I'm okay at. I've been said that over the years, I've also learned that I'm actually not particularly brilliant at any of this stuff.

And I find the more I learn about my world of the adventure stuff, the more I do of it, the more I realize, gosh, there's so many other people would be so much better at my job than me. Really? Really do. I really, it's a genuine feeling. Two genuums. One is like any odd idiot could do my job. It's true. You know, you can argue every life, but I really believe that.

And secondly, I'm surrounded by people who are better skydivers, better climbers, better climbers, better adventures, better survivalists, better team. TV hosts. And again, it's okay. It's okay. That is life. You don't have to be the best. It's that scout thing of do your best rather than be the best. Yes. I don't mind that. You're right that it's okay. I respectfully disagree with you because I think what you bring together is physical prowess, but also the ability to connect and communicate in almost like a priest-like capacity. When you are running through extremes with celebrities, you have to connect very quickly and they have to trust you very quickly. That's true.

There's not very many people who could do that. Yeah, but it's still not rocket science. And I've done so much of it. It's a guiding job. And I love that. It's like if you go and climb a mountain with an alpine guide, it's a guiding job that's filmed and you're chatting a bit along the way and you have to have a sort of vague weather eye out for the cameras to make sure they're vaguely getting some things that vaguely works whilst

keeping that energy of keeping moving and have a plan for a route. You know, you need a little bit of a sensitivity about how to adapt routes and adjust it and be sensitive to people's fear levels and how they're struggling with stuff or coping or can you stretch it even further because they're doing great. You know, but these learned skills that have just come from over the years, I really do feel that anyone with a bit of training could do my job. Do you feel that the bravest people are the ones with the most fear? I've learned the fear is always there and brave people.

I mean, in fact, it's the other way around me. You can't be a brave person without the fear. I mean, just not even fear in doing it mindlessly is there's just stupidity. That's not courage. You know, courage is always quiet and there's stumbling and there's a struggle and there's summoning it up from inside to keep moving forward towards the difficult stuff rather than running. Like most of us do in life whenever it gets hard, scary or difficult, we turn on our tail, you know, whatever it is. public speaking hospitals whatever we're scared of we go the other way from it but i have learned and the wild has taught me you've got to keep moving towards the difficult stuff it's a muscle you've got to

train it and if you don't train it and you don't do it enough and you suddenly confronted with it you're going to get an adrenal overload of panic you're not going to be able to speak your name you'll probably pee in your trousers and the fear will be overwhelming but if you're used to it and the little things whether it's having a 20 second cold shower every day whatever the little stuff is that's how we get strong and therefore in the big moments when it's all going wrong and that log is collapsing under your feet across a ravine and it's all happening in a heartbeat and time slowing and you're trying to save someone else at the same time and the snakes are bad at you know then you're on it because a muscle's strong and I feel proud that that muscle has been

trained over the years but beyond that I don't think I have particularly I don't think those are skills I mean my family say to me they go papa your head is full of an awful lot of useless information. And they're right. But I always go, but until your life is on the line. Exactly. And I love it. I mean, listen, I don't mind the fact that our boys are ruthless with me.

We were discussing saying the other day, arguing about something as a family. Jesse goes, Papa, what are you to build wooden teepees in the forest? You can't even end of this discussion. And thank God for families to remind us all of a few home truths. I want to get on to your second failure but I first want to ask you a question about your name which I know your older sister who you mentioned who made you eat raw bacon

she gave you the nickname bear do you like bears I love bears but I wouldn't say I'm not like obsessed by but I'm probably more obsessed by rhinos I love rhinos I mean our house is full of rhino rhino lamps and pictures of rhinos so I love rhinos

why do you love rhinos I think it's he kind of put the horn down and get focus you know charge you that jungle have a thick skin when you need to, but also be super tender with your family and gentle when the sun dips, loving with the kids. And, you know, rhinos have a great dynamic like that

of being very, very tender, very family-orientated, very protective, then very focused and unstoppable when charging. They've got a great work-life balance. And also they love mud. You know, they love a mud hole. I love a mud hole. You know, I don't know, I've always just related to, I like a rhino.

Yeah, it's a family joke, really. I love giant pandas because they just roll around eating bamboo and they're just chilled and they have thumbs. That's why. It's a great reason. Why not? They get a loss of credit just for having sex. Like that's literally, everyone applauds. Okay.

Your second failure is failing SAS selection first time around. So you go to school, you don't go to university, you'll drop out of university. What happens? How did you... Well, I'd done pre-selection to join the Royal Marines as a commander. as an officer set to go, started university conventional path in some ways, in the sense I'd gone to university, it was ready then to join as an officer, which a lot of my kind of friends and peers were doing. You know, the Marines was slightly less usual route, but it was still

a conventional kind of route, and I was set to do that. And I started at university, and I, first of all, I made the friend for life in the first week, who's still my greatest brother to this day. And both of us read a book called The Quiet Soldier, which is such a great, it's such a great, but old book about a guy who went to try and join 21 SAS as a soldier and what he went through. And it was the first kind of book of his type of actually describing really what it was like. Now there's so many books on the SAS and stuff. And I remember just been captivated about that. And together with Trucker, who was this great brothers to this day, we both kind had a moment where we looked to each other and I thought, what do you think? Do we think? Do we

throw it all in and go for this and try and join as a soldier not as an officer it was a sort of a route in we could do straight from civilly street to try and apply as a trooper as a private at the bottom of the pile but a long route to try and go and do SAS selection and for me it would involve leaving university throwing that down I'd be passing over the raw marine staff that I was all lined up to do and had worked really hard to get and it was like I love that who dares wins spirit, you know, that is the regimental motto. I love that. It's like, you know, if you risk nothing, you gain nothing. I loved all of that, that path less trodden. Come on. I know these phrases. Are you actually going to put your money where your mouth is and actually have

the balls to do it? So we decided to do it. And I dropped out of uni and we applied and this journey began. And I remember on day one, we were lined up 120 of us recruits. We were already the old ones out. So they were all like Welsh and tough and, you know, sheep farmers and great brilliant people you know and we were like the two odd balls and I remember early on day one they said they could see we were together and everything we did everything together like pinky and perky and they used to call us rank and Xerox bracket and hinge you know it was always and but they said don't be friends why because four of you will be here at the end of this process and the likelihood of you being you and your buddy is kind of zero and therefore get

focused do what you need to do but don't expect both of you to be here at the end end the odds are against you which kind of made sense but we couldn't really adhere to it because we were great buddies and we sort of stuck together like glue and we started this process and after about probably about halfway through you know having many months down the line it was one particular march over the breckons you know it's progressively heavier weights longer distances day and night relentless thrashing you know and just one of them I wasn't fast enough I wasn't was just wasn't good enough full stop and when that clock comes down it's like you know we'd watch it every step of the way you know you're either that side through that side gone and that number gets

smaller and smaller and i just was the wrong side of it and it was devastated and trucker was devastated because he was through and i went home and i was like gutta literally i felt i've given everything i've sacrificed university now i've sacrificed the raw marine stuff sacrifice was my pride everyone knew everyone that my family known i've dropped and given it everything for this i'm not going as an officer so i was trying to do it unconvention as a soldier and it's all backfired gone and then about five days later phone call goes there's truck on the other end of the phone getting tears going and he'd failed as well it was like wow we're really we should have listened to them at the beginning that we're unlikely both to be there and definitely unlikely

you'd both be there together and about a week after that we got a letter saying sometimes we think people have potential and we ask them to come back not often but sometimes and we'd like you both to come apply again and it was like right now we got to get serious we are not screwing this up again we are doubling down on everything we're going to train harder with more intensity we're going to it was 100% of our effort and focus before but it's like we just turn that dial right up and like went rhino went rhino that horn was sharp And we went back with much more confidence. And the mystique had gone a bit for us now so we can sort for what it was rather than

being overwhelmed and intimidated, which is probably what I felt, if I'm honest, at the beginning. And now it was like, I'm here to do a job. I'm going to be at the front of everything. I'm going to be unstoppable. 120 of us lined up. Two of us, we stuck together. And Trucker and myself were two of the four who were there right at the end.

Still best buddy to this day. Strongest man I know he is. He was always a much better soldier than I ever was. it's a great pride in our life that we came through that together and so many of our great relationships and friends are from those days you know still Sergeant Bob

Bob Williams is a bit older now Bob lives in Mertha Tidville he was our directing staff running selection one of the corporals still to the day we're going to go and see him regularly he goes fellas you earned your place there

you did it I knew you could do it and those friendships and that sort of belief in somebody has carried me through so much since because I didn't really have that confidence at the beginning. But sometimes you've got to earn the confidence. And I think I came out of that going, no, you know what, we can do this and we're okay. And we've got this. I know the recipe. I know the ingredients to success now. You know, you've got to go through the pain. You've got to be committed. You've got to give you

all. You've got to know it's going to hurt. You've got to hold the hand of those close to you. You've got to work together. You've got to try and be a good guy. That's a big part of selection. is also your face has got to fit. You know, and all these factors have been so instrumental, I think, in life since. Fascinating. When you fail now or when you experience a loss and you feel sadness, is that where you go to your relationships, your friendships, your wife? Are you able to talk about it with them?

Yeah, I'm always okay to share struggles. But more importantly than that, I now know that failure isn't failure. You know, failures haven't quite got it there. I haven't figured out quite the combination. You know, the only one real failure is when we give up. Then it's the end. Failure is a stepping stone. I see it now.

I know it. I know it from experience. I mean, I've failed so many times and so many things. I mean, I had to list out to our boys the other day. They see the good stuff. They see the fruits of a few successes. in our life that have been amazing blessings and brilliant and so lucky. But they don't always see the many multiple failures behind it.

I had to list out for them the other day. All the projects and expeditions and businesses were done and so many things. And the list was like this, you know. Do you actually physically do a list? I listed it all out. And I'll talk about the TV Sunday bit. But it's interesting that it wasn't close. You know, there were like five or six wins.

50 or 60 disasters. And I'm really proud of those. It's not faux pride. It's like real pride. It's like those were the doorways of stepping stones. They're the stripes, the scars, the wrinkles that I'm not going to hide from. I love it. You know, I look, it is like wrinkles or scars, you know. These are the stories, the adventures. They're what make us. They're the cement. They're the cells. They're the blood. They're the building blocks. You know, so I'm not afraid of those. And I know that when I fail, it's okay. It's like, we've got to go again. We've got to get smart. We've got to innovate. We've got to think differently. And it's a symbol and a sign and a flag now to me that we're doing something right. My final question on this failure before we move on to your third one, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.

Those TV programmes about SAS selection, where they get members of the public to do it or celebrities, is that what it's like? Well, I think it's accelerated because they're there for two weeks or whatever. But I think the sort of spirit of self-reliance is right. I think the spirit of you've got to have a never give up spirit is right. I think the spirit of you've got to be a team player is correct. So I'm not an armchair critic of those going, oh, it's rubbish. I think the guys do a great job on that show. But it is obviously different. But I do think that they have a lot of it right.

I mean, it's interesting. I went with Trucker the other day down to an old regimental reunion dinner. And some of the current SAS guys, one of the guys stood up to give a presentation during the dinner. to tell us what, how selection has evolved over the years and how it's changed and what it's like now. And it's funny because truck and we looked at each other just with a look. And I knew exactly what he was thinking. And he knew exactly what I was thinking, which was, we'd never make it today. We'd never get through. You know, I think it's become ever harder, ever more intense. There was always room for kind of the mavericks. And, you know, you've got to pass certain criteria.

You've got to, you know, I don't want to sort of, it was hard and we took our all. But I did, was listening thinking, God, I don't think I'm not shot past there. But yeah, there we go. There we'll be the grace of God go we in all these things. Did you have the psychological breakdown? Yeah, we had all of that. I mean, actually, I mean, listen, the other side of that coin is, in some ways, very little has changed at the same time because the ethos and the values and it's the same. and the type of testing, that mix of physical, mental, emotional, team spirit, solo spirit,

being able to operate under pressure on your own for a long periods of time when you're sleep deprived and hungry and cold and all of that stuff is still in there. But it just feels, I don't know whether it's we're getting older, or whether it feels like humans have got ever more capable and they've had to turn the dial up even more. I don't know. I mean, it is a bit like, in our day, you know, a few people could do a handstand. Yes. Now, all you've got to do YouTube and you can figure out how to do triple backflips and you look at Instagram and everyone's doing.

And I'm like, wow, and oh, look, shit, wow, there's a progression Instagram on how I can do a double backflip. I'm going to learn that, you know. And I love that. That's human nature and brilliant. Your third failure is that your first TV show was cancelled. First network US TV show. Oh, okay. But it was a big set for us because we're done, we were in the sort of groove of Man vs. Wild and Discovery in season seven.

And I thought, oh, no, I can do this bigger, rather just doing the same stuff. It was always like, I want to leave things five minutes too early than too late. And I thought, I wonder if we just go big in the sense that we finish this job early, finish your show early before, you know, don't let it get canned in three seasons of time when it's dying. Go at the top, go strong, use that energy and that heat, go to a bigger network, go to a mainstream US NBC type network and try and do something that we own because we didn't own. Man versus Wild. I was a hired gun, essentially. Paid a fee, told to go and do a job. And it was getting ever more dangerous. We're having ever more narrow scrapes with my life. It was ever more time away from a young family. And I thought, hold on, we're not running this smart. If we're smart, we own the show, we own the content, we own the IP, we dictate when and where we film with

who, with the teams I like, with the crews I like. We don't, I haven't got some director pushing me to do further. It's like, I should be running this. But it's a risk because we've got to finish your show and then we got a leap and hope we grab hold of a bigger fish and then get that so it was a lot of risk but we took it had a massive fallout with discovery over it because they didn't want us to quick because it was running and working and winning but i did quit we put our own team together we got rid of all the agents we pitched this big show to the us networks and i remember all my old agencies going you're crazy if you go for network tv if there's a dip in the ratings for a second it's off and gone and then you'll never get hired and you won't you won't be able to go back

to discovery and you won't be and it was all fear and you can't operate with fear and it's like I'm not going to start living on the back foot everything good in my life has come from being on the front foot that who does wins that risk-taking spirit might not work this time might take four guys five goes but I know how to live I know the ingredients so we went for it and eventually we got a commission with NBC for a show called get out alive big show and they put a ton of effort and time and money behind it. We went and shot it. You know, it felt a risk, but we did it and it was great.

Went out and just wasn't good enough. Was this wrong? Ratings weren't good enough. And it got canned. And it was like, wow. This felt like essay selection over again first time. You know, it's like I've risked everything. Yes.

Severed everything. Put it all on that. And it's been public. That's been public. But more than it's not just pride now. Now it's about one's career. It's like, hold on, I've got no future. if I haven't got this, I haven't got anything else.

You know, I haven't got a degree. I'm got anything else. But we kept going, you know, and we said, let's innovate. Let's figure out another way. And we put out all the ratings of other things. Or how can we make this smarter? And out of that crisis, we got them to back the idea of running wild. And they gave us a chance just by the skin of our teeth through the grace.

And so when I say we stand on the shoulders of giants, I could talk about people all day long and people who've helped me. It's another one, the person helped me at NBC who said, we give you one more. shot, don't screw it up. And we started running wild and it flew and it went and, you know, we're now about to start season nine of that show and that opened the door to all the Netflix, U-Vusel Wiles and the Amazon shows and all the, and then we went back to Discovery and did a whole raft of other shows for them, but we owned it, we controlled it. We did it on our terms and we won. But on that list of failures that I did for our boys, I also wrote out the number of shows we've had, like Get Out live that have been one season disasters. And it was something like 30 or 32, its separate shows

that have bombed and been canned before they've even hardly started airing. And the wins have been like four or five. So I said to our boys, technically on paper, you could say, I'm the greatest TV flop in history. Nobody in the history of TV has had more individual adventure shows that they own that have been canned and cancelled the meat. And they were laughing at this point. So you're the greatest flop in history.

I get, well, on paper. Yeah. You know, but nobody really cares about those. I don't get asked, you're not everyone else, you didn't even know about get out of life. I mean, and there are 31 other ones because life then focuses on the wins.

But together, the wins, there were, you've got to go through. It's one of my life ambitions to become famous enough to go on running wild. So you'd be great. You'd be great. Unstoppable. Thank you. One of the things that I wanted to ask you is doing that program, you've met some extraordinary people. I mean, I named some of them, Barack Obama, Channing Tatum, the lot. And I'm sure, because you're the kind of person who treats people as you find them, that I can't imagine you're that impressed by the gloss of celebrity. But has there been a moment where you've thought, wow, is that really you, Julie Roberts? All the time. All the time. All the time.

And it's certainly not like, it's certainly not like sort of, oh, I'm too cool to be impressed by the gloss of celebrity. It's not like that. If anything is the opposite, at the end, I'm so nervous meeting these people, breathe, bear, breathe. You know, and it's got better over the years because that happens, isn't it? But it's still there. I'm always nervous. I'm nervous, not just because of who they are. I'm nervous because of the job.

And we're taking, they're trusting me with their life, their brand, they're, you know, all of that. I've said, come on your own, leave the entourage. People are super trusting and it's a responsible job with a person's life on the end of a rope and a dynamic environment where you're winging it a lot of the time on a route. So I'm nervous at that part of it. But I'm definitely nervous because I'm thinking, this person is my hero. And it's happened multiple times. I mean, Roger Federer, I've always loved Roger, you know.

I mean, so many. I was so nervous with the Obama one. I mean, we just filmed one with President Zelensky, not a running wild, but a separate show with him. You know, the nerves never go. I started the podcast saying it's net they never go but they are a quiet indicator that we're doing something right and I remember running wild the early days we'd go and meet them the day before we'd meet at a hotel in where Denver or something and I'd go and give them some kit and give them a vague briefing about what they're doing and I used to stand outside the hotel room you know whether it's sort of channing Tatum or whoever it was you know Will Ferrell all these all these great people I kind of loved from Hollywood. films and stuff. And I'd almost not be able to speak once I'd tapped on the door. And I learned through experience, don't run up the stairs and be all pumped up and ready to go and then knock on the door on the open it and I can't breathe, which kept happening. So then I learned,

breathe, cover down. It's okay. Knock on the door. We're good. And by season two, I was getting a little bit more familiar. And you learn things to help you, don't you? But the nerves never leave. They're just an indicator. We're in the right space. Final question, Bear. If you could have any figure from history on Running Wild, who would it be? John the Baptist. I think for me, one of the greats.

Wild, lived off locust and honey. Precursor to the Almighty. I think of the Bible, Jesus goes, there's never been a prophet like this guy, the greatest of them all, not Moses or Elijah or any other. And I like that because he was the underdog. He was the under. He was a really wild one, totally wild, and then after we lost in life, but was a man of principal, I think we would have got on.

I don't know, I think he was just a brilliant wild one. I mean, I think he would have thought I was really soft. He was properly hard, amazing. I don't know. He's been a hero of mine. You know, there's so many people through history on the amazing people. I know it's tempting to say, you know, so and so. That's a great answer.

Probably the one. Good for fire, too, all those burning bushes. Share the load. Bergwills, I've wanted you on this podcast since it started. I am so grateful to you and to your wife Shara, who I know was integral in persuading you because it's just so wonderful to hear you speak about things that I feel really passionately about. And for you to be so open, so honest, so vulnerable, so full of integrity has just made my day. I can't thank you enough for coming on my podcast.

Oh, you're so sweet. Like I said at the beginning of Camry, you do an amazing job. You know, you're championing a message that failure is not the end. Failure is the beginning. And it's wonderful. And like with Sharah loving you, everybody loves you. Thank you, Burr.