How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Golda Rosheuvel - ‘I don’t see my dyslexia as a failure anymore’

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Best known for her role as Queen Charlotte in Bridgerton, Golda Rosheuvel is an acclaimed actor of stage and screen. Her career spans powerful theatrical roles including Romeo and Juliet, Jesus Christ Superstar and a groundbreaking lesbian interpretation of Othello. She also stars in the spin-off series Queen Charlotte: A Bridgerton Story. In this conversation, Golda speaks movingly about her childhood and family: how her mother, a white social worker, met her father, a Guyanese Anglican priest, by chance at a choir rehearsal in Jamaica. She reflects on discovering she was dyslexic, navigating rejection, experiencing racism, struggling with motivation - and even failing an early audition for Bridgerton. Plus: why representation is so important. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 04:12 Impact of Representation and Public Recognition 08:39 Challenges with Dyslexia 21:15 Navigating Identity and Belonging 28:10 Professional Challenges and Identity 29:08 Casting and Industry Feedback 29:47 Facing Rejection and Overcoming Setbacks 30:32 Failed Auditions and Lessons Learned 31:45 Challenges of Racial Identity in Theatre 34:04 Progress in Representation and Diversity 35:35 Reflecting on Parental Influence 38:58 Navigating Personal and Professional Identity 40:36 Struggles with Exercise and Motivation 47:54 Final Thoughts and Legacy 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: ‘I’m not half anything. I’m a whole... I found who I want to be. ‘I don't see [dyslexia] as a failure because it was never told to me that it was a failure... It was, “you see the world differently”. This is really exciting.’ ‘Representation is important. We wanna see people who look like us, who we can relate to.’ 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Part one of Bridgerton season four premieres on 29th January on Netflix; part two begins streaming on 26th February Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ 📚 WANT MORE? Gillian Anderson - on her failure to eat well or exercise and why she never wants to do what people tell her swap.fm/l/7NyZMzkfVOpGyDtlB6k0 Letitia Wright - on bullying, rejection, self-doubt, anxiety and depression. Plus how faith and friendship helped her turn those struggles into strength and purpose swap.fm/l/orHGF9VMU6s1FOH3bupc 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Elizabeth and Golda answer listener questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This month, we are partnering with Pink Lady Apples. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast where we ask each guest about the things that went wrong to get them closer to the things that went right. Before we get on to this particular episode, please do remember to subscribe and follow so that you never miss a single conversation. Bridgeton is an interesting story because I went up for Lady Danbury first. I just fell completely apart. It was a terrible, terrible, terrible audition.

I've been with my personal trainer four years now in the gym. We've had some right old ding-dongs where I've gone. He's asked me to do something. I'm like, no. I didn't get the job. And I was like, why, why, why, why, why, why? And they said because I wasn't black enough. It's an age-old story that January is the best time for new beginnings,

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Golda Rocherval is an acclaimed actor of stage and screen, whose varied work encompasses hit TV shows such as Silent Witness and Doctor Who, and theatrical productions of Romeo and Juliet, Jesus Christ Superstar, and the lead in a lesbian version of Othello. But she is arguably best known for her role as Queen Charlotte in Bridgeton, the smash-hit Regency period drama. Bridgeton is one of Netflix's most popular shows ever, It has racked up 298 million views in its three series, as well as winning five Emmys.

Rochavelle also starred in the spin-off Queen Charlotte, a Bridgeton story. She has said that playing Queen Charlotte, the only Bridgeton character loosely based on the real-life historical figure, who was married to George III, is an homage to her maternal upper-middle-class English heritage. Rocherville's mother, Judith, was a white social worker who met Siegfried. a Guyanese Anglican priest by chance at a choir rehearsal in Jamaica. Rochavelle spent the first five years of her life in Guyana, South America, before moving to England and settling in Hertfordshire. Her early ambitions were to be an athlete, but a teenage ankle injury meant that she pursued drama instead.

It's a fascinating childhood, but one that Rochavelle has always insisted was filled with love and acceptance. When she told her younger brother John that she was gay, his response was, cool, what do you want for lunch? Rochaval now returns for the fourth series of Bridgeton, launching this month on Netflix. She was, she says, surprised when she first got the role that would change her life. There was a part of me that didn't quite believe it, because I never think that anybody's going to like what I do. Golda Rochavelle, welcome to How to Fail. Hello.

Thank you for that. Thank you for living such an interesting life. I was like, my life was flashing in front of me in my very eyes. Great, lovely. It's fascinating. There's so much to get into. But I was actually quite surprised by that quote that I found that you said when you said, I don't think anybody's going to like what I do.

Is that true? Yeah. Why do you think that is? I think because I guess it's such a place for me acting in terms of, and what do I mean by that? I mean it's a place where I disappear. It's a place where I can imagine things that are bigger than me. It's a place where I can tell stories.

And, you know, my upbringing was full of stories and full of sitting down, listening to my parents, tell these stories. So that kind of escapism is real for me. And it feels, I feel a need for it. So when you dive in blindly to a character and a storyline and you communicate with other characters, I'm never thinking about the finished product. So when it's finished and it goes out there, I have no concept of it whatsoever. And I hope and pray that people will like it.

But my ideas and my imagination is such. out there that I never think that anybody's going to connect with it in a way that, you know, you want to as an actor. So how does it feel now, knowing that these 300 million people have seen your performance as Queen Charlotte and you've been catapulted into this stratosphere of fame and attention? How does that feel? Odd, weird, very grateful. and important

because representation is important we want to see people who look like us who we can relate to so that part of it is really really good and I feel as though my job is done and I'm doing the right thing

I'm doing the right job because people are connecting to it and and aspiring to things that they might not have thought they could aspire to you know

singer black queen. So that part of it is really good. What do people say to you now when they recognize you on the street? Thank you. I can't believe you're nicer than your character. Yeah, thank you. And that one is really special when they say, thank you. I never saw myself before. I never knew that I could reach for the stars. And that's really special and beautiful. Some of it can be quite mad. You know, people will talk to you and scream at you in your face and, you know, that's quite bizarre. And it can come out of nowhere. I kind of say now that my senses are really heightened.

So if I walk into a room or I'm on public transport or something like that, I know somebody's recognized me from that sound. and that sound can be like, you know, a mile away. I always remember watching Paris Hilton, her documentary, I think it was on Netflix. Right, yeah. And she spoke about the sound of camera shutters and how it actually re-traumatizes her now whenever she hears it. You become so attuned, don't you? Yeah, you do. And when you, I don't think that I'm famous at all.

but in this world of fame, of notoriety, your world becomes smaller. It has to to protect yourself. Tell me about Bridgeton. It's enormous fun to watch. Is it as fun to make? Yes. Is it? Yes.

Do you all get on really well? Yes. You're not going to tell me no anyway. No. It's one of those, you know, cliche. We're a big, humongous, gorgeous, happy family. I love every single one of them. And it's a privilege to work with them.

It's a privilege to have those core, you know, oldies, as we call ourselves, myself, Adjua, Ruth, who are staple. And then these wonderful, young, beautiful actors come in and play, you know, the two lovers. Talk to me about the costumes. Yes. Because so much of Bridgeton is about the presentation. The costumes in the wigs. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the hardest thing about the costumes? The corset. The corsets are really, I'm double corseted. So I have a normal one of those corsets and then my jacket is corseted as well. I actually managed to persuade John, our designer, to let me off the one that's the proper one. So now, and I hope that continues. Now I just wear a bra in one corset.

I never understand how those women wore those things. in the day, but they did. What about the wigs? The wigs are pieces of art, as far as I'm concerned. It takes about a week to make one of them. And the detail, the attention to detail is quite extraordinary. There is storytelling in the wigs. Well, we'll talk more about Queen Charlotte as it comes up in one of your failures.

Yes. But let's get into those failures. You've given me three. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. And your first one, first of all, how hard was it for you to come up with them? Or did they come quite easily?

The first two came quite easily. But the third one, I actually asked my wife. Like, what? Because I didn't, and she was like, you need to do something fun and relatable. Well done. You're a bit dark at the moment. Okay. So your first failure is dealing with your dyslexia.

Yes. This is the first time I've talked about this, actually, in depth. So I'm looking forward to it. Well, thank you. But I am looking forward to it. forward to it. Well, all emotion is welcome here and thank you so much for sharing this because so many listeners will relate to it and viewers too. So talk to me about how you first knew that you had dyslexia. I knew you're going to ask that question and it's a very bizarre encounter.

I was in junior school. We lived in Bishop Stortford and there was a summer school at my junior school. And my mother enrolled me for the summer school. And to cut a long story short, I loved sports. I loved, I was captain of my netball team. I was captain of the rounders team, hockey team, you know, and I did athletics. So I was playing rounders. Do you know rounders? Yes. Kind of like a baseball game. And very happily playing this game of rounders. And the guest teacher basically after that day went up to my mother and said, do you know that your daughter is dyslexic? And my mother had never heard of that word.

She was like, no, what is it? How do you know? And the woman said it's the way she swings her bat and connects to the ball. That's the story. That's a true story. I mean, it must be about... Dispraxia. Dispraxia or some kind of distance between

and how you connect to the bat to the ball. And how old were you, sorry, at this stage? So I must have been like 8, 9, 10, something like that. And just to situate us, so the first five years of your life were in Guyana. Yes. And that transition from Guyana where you had this fascinating experience

of moving around a lot and spending time with indigenous tribes because of your father's work. Yeah, yeah. Going from there. My mom strapping me on her back. Right. And hiking up into the bush.

Do you have many memories of that time? No. Those are the stories that I would sit and listen to my parents talk about, you know, these travels and hiking up into the bush and being on the Esacuba Coast and him preaching to the indigenous people and, you know, my mom kind of supporting him. Wow. Beautiful. So then you transition move. Yes, we moved. Age five.

Age five to Britain. Yes. Because my mum was English. I thought that that was the better move. And I've heard you speak about this before, that you've said that actually it was a very welcoming environment. 100%. 100%.

Yeah. My grandmother welcomed us with open ours. Because my mum's quite, or she was, she's passed now. Whenever my friends used to come around, she was like, your mum's quite posh. And the story is that my aunts and uncle arrived with like fur coats and stuff because we literally had, you know, the clothes we stood in

and it was dead of winter, like snow was on the ground and, yeah, we were kind of scooped up in the arms of my, you know, uncle and aunts. Then we stayed at my uncles in Charterhouse. He was a housemaster of a public school in Charterhouse. So we stayed there for a little while until my dad was able to get a job as a priest. He actually worked for the United Society for the, the proclamation of the gospel, which is a missionary society.

And he got a job there and we moved up north. So to get back to the dyslexia, so age nine or ten, you have this rounder's teacher, tell you this thing. Tell my mum, I think your daughter was dyslexic, she should get tested. Did you realise that you had it before? Was there any? No. No. So what happened then? I got tested. They found out that I was dyslexic. So I then moved to secondary school and my grandmother paid for extra classes on a first.

Friday night after school with this wonderful teacher. And my mum used to pick me up and we used to drive out to this woman's house. And we used to do like exercises and stuff like that. So from day one, I was always supported in my neurological difference. Yes. It is a failure, but I don't see it as a failure because it was never told to me that it was a Do you know what I mean? Yes.

It was never, oh my God, you know, you can't read, you can't spell. You mix your Ds and your bees up and, you know, your brain scatters. As you're reading a line, it like glitches. Those were never bad things. It was, you see the world differently. This is really exciting. Yes. What a gift.

A real gift. But that's like really special. And we can find ways that you can move through the normal life. You just need a bit of help and the tools to kind of get you through. So B's and D's, I know a D because the word and finishes with a D. And that was, let's find a thing that helps you conquer that thing. So every time I need to spell a D or an. is the first thing I go, okay, oh, that's a D.

So I don't need that one. I need the other one. Yes. And that's a B. Wow. Thank you for explaining it like that. Yeah. It's like coding.

Like our coding is different. Yours is natural. You don't even think about it. My coding is about sounds, seeing letters differently, and the glitch that happens when I'm reading a line. You know, like a glitch on the television. Yes. like that. My brain does that.

So pink is a good colour for me. I'm so pleased. It's a hard to feel branding. But every dyslexic is different, right? And the tools that they use are different. So my tools are quite old-fashioned is that I have a pink highlighter. And I have to highlight everything.

And that stops the glitch. Huh. You've said that you turn down jobs because of it though. So which jobs did you turn down and why? Oh, God. This is the painful part of dyslexia where you are offered a job

reading Shakespeare with Ian McKellen and Harriet Walter. I can't do that. I can't go to a theatre and be handed a piece of text and read it in a way that you might be able to or somebody else who is not

neurologic has neurological differences, I would kill to do those kind of jobs. Being dyslexic doesn't stop me from enjoying language, doesn't stop me from enjoying words and being fascinated by language and words and Shakespeare and, you know, the classics. it stops me from reading it. So many, many times I've been offered those jobs. And many, many times I've had to say no, I can't. Oh, Golda, I can feel the pain. If I was to do a job like that, I'd need six months.

If I was to read, you know, with other actions. the whole of Othello or Hamlet or, you know, off the cuff, I would need six months to a year to prep. I'd probably learn every single line so that I could read it easily. And do you still learn through reading or is there a method where you can hear it like music? So if my first port of call, if I have the time, time is a precious, precious thing for a dyslexic. We need time to be able to prep. and to know and to ask, what does that word mean, or to look it up on Google or whatever.

So my first port of call, whenever I'm given a script, it goes through a thing called speech, speechify. So my scripts are all read to me first. And I read along with listening. Right. So that's what I only need to hear it, read it once with Speechify. Gwyneth Paltrow is my reader. Snoop Dogg can be the reader, but if you're not.

Yeah. Okay. I want to introduce New York. Reading Shakespeare is beautiful. Yeah, his rap in a way is. It's great. But Gwyneth, I've chosen Gwyneth Poutreau on this app thing. She's great.

So she reads me all my scripts. And then that's fine. Then I delve in and start doing the work from the script itself. Fascinating because there's such a musical heritage in your family, isn't there? Your brother's musical. Yes. Your parents met through the script itself. Both my parents, yeah, absolutely.

Everybody plays an instrument, apart from me. Were there times in your early career before you had sorted all of this out, really, that you feel you were deemed as less than by people in the industry? No, because I think you can hide it well. And I think I hid it very well. I was functioning. and as I said, time is my diamond. And if you can speak to your agent

and you have people around you that understand you need that time, then that's fantastic. You know, if I was going up for like a self-tape or something like that before the Bridgeton days and they would only give me like two days, there's no way I'm getting that job. And I understand that and I am prepared to not get the job, but I am not prepared to not do the work for it.

Yes. Because there's always that slim chance that you might get it. Yeah. So I will do the work for it. It won't be as good as I want it to be. Bridgeton is an interesting story because I went up for Lady Danbury first. And that was in person with Kelly. Kelly being.

They're a casting director. And I knew it outside of the room. They hadn't given me that much time. When I got in the room and the camp, you know, Kelly was there and the cameras, I just fell completely apart. And it was a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible audition. Lucky, I was so lucky that like literally an hour later, Kelly said, oh, there's the part of the queen.

That was done. I did a self-tape for the queen. and that was done with literally pieces of paper with words that I couldn't remember and trying to place them in positions where I could just glance and go, boom, and yeah. So some of my self-tapes are literally like, if you turn the camera around, you would see like a whole heap of like pages and papers and stuff like that. Sometimes I would do it on an auto queue, but that got a bit with. weird because, yeah, trying to film yourself and do the timing of the autocu so you could have

the thought processes that you wanted to have. But yeah, it's, for Bridgeton, there were literally pieces of paper. Are you happy you didn't get Lady Dan Brina? Yes. It went to a much better actor. Oh. Adjo's phenomenal. She is. She's phenomenal. So are you. Seeing the world differently, everyone around you really gave you this feeling rightly that that was a wonderful thing, that that difference was wonderful. I wonder if that played out in other parts of your life because your parents were clearly extraordinary individuals. And yet you also had this experience of coming to England at a certain age.

And I imagine were your family not that great, feeling like an outsider. Can you talk to me a bit about that? Yeah, that goes to identity, doesn't it? And being biracial. It was my seamless link. Yes, very good. Very good. Into my next failure.

Yes, interesting, difficult. Especially as a young teenager. And trying to figure out where you fit. Being told that you fitted with that community because of the way you looked. and understanding that and getting that and having wonderful, amazing, beautiful friends, you know, within that community. But then there was this other side

that was kind of pulling. But I didn't really understand what that was and how that was a part of me because it was all about how I looked. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And that was the thing.

And that was my identity. That was supposed to be my identity. But then there's this. And I always say, in my household, there were two people. I had a white mother and a black father. So I had my identity there in front of me every single day. They nurtured me.

They kept me alive. So how can the way I look be dictated with who I am because I'm seeing these two people and I'm a part. I came from these two people. So I have to be part of both communities. But finding that as a teenager and as a young adult was really, really difficult because of outside understandings of the way. I looked.

Yes. And lack of understanding, like the lack of nuance. Yes. Do you remember at this stage in your life ever feeling like, I wish I looked different? No. No. No. Never.

But my upbringing did lean itself more to my mother. You know, being dragged in, through manor houses, you know, country houses. and museums and operas and, you know, you think that that's more leaning towards my mother's culture and lifestyle and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Black people, people of colour, love museums, they love manor houses, they love classical music, you know.

But it was difficult to find my heart, to find my soul, to find, who I was, you know. I've just done this play with Tish. I know, Latisha, right. And there's a line in the play where Tish's character says to her mother, which I play, you know, don't you want to know half yourself? And my character says, I'm not half anything.

I'm a whole choice. And every night I would be so grateful. that I found my whole golder, you know, and that happened. I can tell you when that happened. And it was relatively late. You know, I was in my 20s, early 30s. And I was round my cousins house, my white cousin's house. And my family is very vibrant, both sides.

Everybody talks over each other, but somehow we all hear each other. You know, it's real, like Christmases are amazing, beautiful. And I remember sitting and I was the only black person there, you know, as I had been for most of my life, all of my life. And I sat and I could hear this noise of, you know, very well-spoken, wonderful human beings. And there was such a moment of, I'm here. Oh. Oh, I belong here. These people love me, and they have loved me, ever since I was born.

And the realization of belonging. And that's when I was like, I found who I want to be. I know who I want to be. Beautiful. And it is everything that I see before me. And it is everything that I know and love, you know, whether that's soul food or chicken. or, you know, sandwiches, you know, peanut butter sandwiches or manor houses or the whole lot or reggae music

or classical music or steel pan that my father played or it's all of that. And that moment, it was so powerful and so strong and so relieving, you know, I felt like the weight of the world had lifted off my shoulders in that moment. And I felt I'd feel, I belonged.

That's so moving. The whole of me. And there's that sense, isn't there, that belonging is when you don't have to change yourself. Yeah. And you also don't have to explain yourself. You no longer have to explain yourself anymore. The self-acceptance is so powerful there to you. I think that's a really good self-acceptance.

I think that was really, really strong idea of I am everything. Yes. I can take whatever I want. from these two amazing cultures. Like... Yeah, and I don't need to make sense to other people's projections. Yeah.

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played out or not in your professional life in terms of the parts you were getting offered. Yeah. I think the same with my dyslexia. The moments that I feel a failure with my dyslexia are the moments that I don't have the tools, I don't have the choice. I can't do it.

I can't speak, you know, with Ian McKellon, Harriet Walsh, I can't, it's just not possible. And my heart breaks. When I have to fill in a form, like my wife is, my dear dear wife always helps me with forms. I can't do them. It's impossible. I need help.

It breaks my heart. I feel like a failure. With identity and being biracial, there have been moments where I'm not black enough. There have been moments where, like, I've been too black. You know, and you're like, you know, there was a role that I played.

Jesus Christ Superstar, I played Mary Magdalene. I understudied it first. At the Lyceum Theatre, I went on tour, played the role. And they were making a movie of it, of the stage production. And I auditioned. Fine. I'd been playing it for a year, the role. Did my audition.

went well, the feedback that I got was you're too exotic and your eyes are too close together. Who said that? Oh my gosh. So we're not going to give you the role. I can't do anything about that. And I thought that that was a positive thing. You know?

Like I can't pull my eyes apart to... And I dealt with that really badly. It was a very... very, very dark moment in my career and life because it hurt. Of course. I'm so sorry. How can I've been playing it for the past year, but then what I look like doesn't suit the aesthetic of screen. I think a couple of days later, they came back and they offered me the ensemble role

with like some bits and pieces in the thing. and I really, really, really had to sit down and think I took the job because it was my first screen experience and I wanted that experience. So I took the lesser roles to have the experience of being on a set, of being, I think we filmed at Pinewood, you know, going to like a big place like that and having that experience.

But I had to watch that person amazing, beautiful, gorgeous, lovely human being played a part. It was big learning painful. Painful, but I got over it. How old were you when this...

God. This was 30 years ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm really, really grateful that I made that decision. Wow. Because I learnt so much. And then, so that was that experience. And then I had an experience of not being black enough in a theatre job, actually.

I'd done all of the workshops for it, like from beginning to end. I like phone my agent, they were taking it into the West End, blah, blah, blah. Big, big job. I said to my agent, come on, you know, let's push them. I really, really, really, really want to do this job. and the script all the way through great character, black character, blah blah, fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. And right at the end, like literally the last page, it had this stage direction, she kisses her teeth. And I was like, but there's no, nowhere else is there a suggestion of her blackness or anything like that.

Why? Oh, because, you know, we think it would be funny. Da la la la la. And every time we read the script and I refused to do it. Because I was like, I don't know why you're doing that. It feels really weird and odd to me. I don't think we need it. It doesn't matter.

You know, me being on stage and looking the way I am, is that not enough that you're, you know, if you want to celebrate that in a weird way? So come going into the West End, I didn't get the job. And they said to me, and I was like, why, why, why, why, why, why? And they said because I wasn't black enough. They actually said that. They said that to my agent.

Yeah. And I thought, wow, okay, we're still doing that. We're still doing that. Right. And again, amazing, beautiful, incredible actress got it. She, you know, was darker than me. And I would never begrudge anybody, you know, getting their flowers. She's just phenomenal.

But it was, yeah, that's been my journey. And was there a period of time where you stopped working deliberately around 2012? Yes. And has it shifted since then? Have times got better or is it just that it's not being said to you? I think times have definitely got better. I think, you know, being in Bridgeton and celebrating the fact that, you know, we have a black queen or a biracial queen in that show.

And there are so many people of colour in that show. And it is celebrated and it is made a point of having those people, people of colour in the show. I think it's definitely got better. people have now sat up and gone, oh, okay, yes, we can do that. And it's not detrimental to our purses. This is actually something that can be celebrated and it reflects the world that we're living in. That's a positive thing. I think we can always do more.

We can always push, you know, the boundaries and the doors open more. And I think we can do that when we don't say it, when it's. when it just is. Yes. Great point. Such a strong point. I mean, it's not like this at all. It's a totally different thing.

But there's one famous comedian who refuses to respond when anyone calls for a female comedian. Oh, amazing. Great. She should just be a comedian. Yeah, absolutely. 100%.

It's when you don't have the prefix when it's not stated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm aware because we're talking about something so profound as identity how much your parents have a part to play in that. And I'm so sorry that they are no longer with us. Yes, me too.

They sound like such an extraordinary vital force in your life. Yeah, it's sad because my mum saw the preparation of Bridgeton. She never actually saw the finished product. She would have loved it. Oh, God, she would have loved it. It would have loved it. Yeah. My dad would have been proud, doesn't it?

well, definitely. But I feel, I feel definitely my mum is there because she's Charlotte. That was my first, you know, the first kind of sparkles and flames of getting into Charlotte and who this person was is 100% my mother. She's now evolved into her own character, you know, but the first, yeah, the first goes, the first layers, 100% my mum. I've got such a sense of what your mom was like then. So what was Siegfried like? Oh. It's funny you call him, we never called him Seekfried. I know, it's an interesting name.

It's a beautiful name. It's beautiful, but unexpected. Seekreed Winslow. Patrick Rocherville. Yeah, we called him Patrick. My dad was a force to be reckoned with. You could never see his eyes because we're part Javanese. He always had slits for eyes, but when he got angry, when he like, you knew when they, when he was angry.

because they would open wide. He was very, very, my father was desperate to learn. Both my parents did open university, but my dad was like always learning, always, always in a book, always like in his office, learning, learning, like learning. Knowledge was almost a crux in a way, you know, because he felt inferior without. that learning and always wanted to feel better. I mean, he was an amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing human being. But I think there was a lot of frustration there and a lot of race issues connected with learning. Yes. You know, so he was always wanting that reaching for higher learning, higher learning, higher learning, higher learning. So having a daughter who was

dyslexic. He never showed any kind of disappointment. But it was definitely my mum who was the biggest support in that element of who I am. And I don't know. Did I feel that I was a disappointment sometimes maybe? Because the knowledge, it was such a thing for him. In a way, everything you've achieved is so much more impressive that you've had to put so much more learning in I'm sure he was immensely proud of you yeah yeah yeah thank you of course

yeah no I'm very you know my brother is just incredible human being as well and is very supportive in you know all of that stuff well I love that story of you telling your family about your sexual

sexuality. Yes. And your brother being like, who's for lunch? I know. And your parents were very accepting as well, very accepting. Very accepting. We had gay friends. You know, they had gay friends and, you know, they were community people and everybody is in the community as far as they were concerned, you know? Did you ever have to navigate, as it pertain to this failure, sexual identity when it came to parts? No. No. Great. Glad I know, no, didn't have to deal with that one. Didn't have to deal with that one.

But, you know, I mean, not to not to the extent of, you know, race. You know, you always have like directors who don't really kind of engage with you because they can't, you know, flirt with you or whatever or that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which is like boring as far as I'm consistent. That's so cliche. I'm like, yeah.

But yeah, that was never something that I engaged with, really. Yes. It's boring. Well, I love you for it. Thank you. And thank you also for being an incredible role model for women who don't have children. Oh, great. Just like personally, from me to you, I really appreciate it.

Oh, you're welcome. And I also really like the way that you on screen get to explore being a parent in multiple different forms. Queen Charlotte has 15 children. Yes, 100 children as far as I'm talking. Too many, quite frankly. This week on Lipsick on the Rim, we sat down with the one and only Rachel Zoe. And wow, this episode is a ride. We talked about everything.

Motherhood, divorce, finding herself again, joining real housewives literally overnight. And then she said this. Can I tell you a true story? In COVID, in the darkness of COVID, I had a cat eye every single day. where nobody saw me, not one soul. And when I had COVID, not even my ex-husband saw me or my children. And you know what I did? I went in to my bathroom. I did a black liquid liner put on lashes, black liner in the water line, a full lip, did my hair and sat in my bed. And that is what I did. And I looked at myself and I said, you are not a well person.

I said, are you fucking okay? You have 104 fever. You are like, you are like contagion right now. If you love fashion, beauty or bravo, this Rachel's Owe episode is a must. It's out now. Your final failure is your failure to motivate yourself. Oh, God, to do exercise. I was so surprised when I read this because you had this like athletic career when you were a child.

I know, I did. I know. I don't understand it. I know. As a child, I was like, it was the Olympics. I was going. I was going. And I loved it then. I hate it now. When did you start hating it? I don't know. It's just one of those things that kind of gradually creeps up on you. And you're like in your 50s now. And I was with my PT this morning. We had to do a virtual one because I was coming here. Usually I'll go into the into the into the, into the, into the, into the, you know. the gym. And if I didn't pay somebody to do, are you, no. But at least you do it. I do do it, but I pay somebody so I'm like, well, I paid you quite a lot of money. Yeah. So I need to go really, don't I? Do you resent it when you're doing it? Do you actively not enjoy it when you're doing it? No. Well, my, I've been with my personal trainer four years now. I class him as a friend. He would probably

cringe at that. And we've had some right old ding-dongs. Have you? Oh, me or my. We have, yeah, in the gym, we've had some right old ding-dongs where I've gone. He's asked me to do something. And I'm like, no. And he's like, Goldie, you need to do this. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing it. And he goes through the whole world, this, do-da-da-do, you'll help me do that, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Lewis, I'm not doing it. And he's gone off in a half or I've gone off. or I've gone off in a half to the other PTs are like. That's amazing.

We don't like each other today. So do you generally win in those arguments? No, absolutely not. Oh, I wish. I wish. No. He wins every time. Of course he has to win.

He's the professional. I'm fascinated by the psychology of this because clearly you are super driven and super disciplined in other areas of your life. I know. Blame it on the dyslexia. Is it?

But is it, okay, so I'm going to offer you option. Is it that you don't want to do it because you're not going to be as good as you were when you were a potential Olympic athlete. So that's option one. Option one. Is it, well, I would say the Julian Anderson School of Thinking? So she came on how to fail.

This is one of her failures. Have you seen it? She was amazing. I love her too. And she said, if anyone ever tells me what to do with my body, I want to tell them to fuck off. So there's this sort of innate sense of rebellion and feminism, which I completely understand. Not that.

Not that. Third option, just really lazy. Yes. No, that's me. It's not that. In this area, that is me. So how often do you force yourself to go and see Lewis? Three times a week.

Oh, well, that's good. It's good, isn't it? You look fantastic. Thank you very much. Three times a week I have to go. Okay. Well, he tells me I have to go three times a week. Yeah.

When I get there, that's when it kicks in. That's when the drive kicks in. Okay. Like, I am known to be like, come on. Yeah. In the gym. And the other trainers are like, you know when Gold is here?

Because she's like, yeah. Come on. Let's go. So when I get there, I'm like, and it's weight training, which I love. I love weight training. I love it. Yes. Because there's that, I love the mental, I can't do it.

It's too heavy. It's too heavy. It's too heavy. And then, like, actually achieve. And you're like, oh my God, I feel like the rock. Yes. You know? You feel powerful.

I feel powerful. But that kind of mind, body over mind thing, I find really, really fascinating. The kind of fight that you have in those kind of situations. And that, you know, you have to kind of really, the psyche, like, kicks in. And, yeah, mind over body or body over mind or whichever way it goes. I love that. But if I was left to my own devices, you wouldn't see me leave the house. Okay.

I'd be sitting watching television. Do you love just being at home? I love it. Yeah. I really, really love it. We just moved into a new house, well, in May. And it's everything that I ever wish for, you know. So it's basically that you don't want to leave your home.

I don't want to leave home, no. Do you want to leave your home for work? Yeah. You do? Yeah, don't mind that. Okay. Don't mind. And I'm a cyclist.

Well, this is. It's making no sense to it. It also sounds like you can't tell you. Like you enjoy exercise. I love cycling. It's because I don't like public transport. I love a cycle. Okay. Me and my missus are always doing a cycle. I love hiking. Yeah. But that's different, isn't it? You're like in the, I like hike. Catherine's like, not really. Yeah. Well, I suppose it's different in that you're not in a gym environment. Yeah. I think that's something we're both Gen X. And I think. Yes, we are. I only found that out the other day. Oh, I love Gen X. Obsessed.

We grew up without a gym culture. Jim was seen as something sort of slightly odd. Yeah. You sort of work out leggings and leg warmers and all that and stuff. And so we don't think of sort of outside exercise as actual exercise. We just think of it as normal life. Yeah. I don't know.

I need to get Lewis in next week to get us to the bottom of this. Yeah. And we do like he's so passionate, so passionate about body and what he does. He's amazing, amazing, amazing. I can't recommend him enough. And we do have what I call learning days. A teaching. This is a teaching moment where I'm like, oh, okay, cool.

That's that part of my body does that. Like, he said the other day and he's told me this before. Like I do that. You know the pushing with the legs, there's that thing that you push with the legs. And the burn that you have, like, and I'll get this wrong. You know, you think that that is like the lactatic acid. and we have always been taught or told that that's a bad thing. But actually it's a good thing because it like feeds your...

And I was like, wow, this is incredible. And he was like, chat, chat in a way. And you know, you see his eyes just light up. Yes. You know, and I'm like, yeah, cool, did it. So now I'm searching for that burn because I know it's good for me. You're searching for the burn and you're also searching for the learn, golden. The learn.

The burn and the learn. Yes. Yes. Constantly. Yeah, I am. It's been such a joy to talk to you. You too. I'd really love to know when you are at home, which is where you most want to be,

and you are watching TV. Yes. You've given us so much culture in terms of TV and stage, but what do you watch to relax? SvU. Oh, Law and Order. Law and Order, SVU. Got it. high bubble gum pop kind of stuff.

I like the dark. The gritty. Yeah, the gritty working out who's doing what and all of that kind of stuff. Final question, Golder. You've done so much in terms of representation. For the younger version of you, you've become what you wanted. What do you hope your legacy is? Oh, my goodness.

Oh, I don't know. I want people to know that they are worth all of their dreams, you know, and that you can achieve your dreams, and that hard work is something to be celebrated and cherished because it leads you to places that you'd never ever think of. you know, and that's really exciting. Because, there we go, the learning, it teaches you who you are and who the world is and who, you know, your community is and other human beings.

You know, to lead with kindness and to be grateful and to feel blessed. That's what I hope I am treading every day is the wonderment of life, you know, and the world. and to really just like open the window and have a look outside and see what you can see. What a note to end on. You are worth your dreams. Thanks, ma. Golda Rushaville, thank you so much for coming on How to Fail.

You are very welcome. Thank you so much for listening and watching. All episodes in January are brought to you by Pink Lady Apples. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.