How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Guenther Steiner - F1 made me an absent father

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

The first thing Guenther Steiner said when he walked into the HTF studio was: ‘Recently your guests have been Shania Twain and Salman Rushdie, are you sure you want me and haven’t made a mistake?��� This tells you almost everything you need to know about the breakout star of Netflix’s F1: Drive to Survive and former Haas team principal: he’s hilarious, he’s modest and he still finds his newfound fame fairly baffling. Although he’s known for his fruity vocabulary alongside his racing skills, I confess that the only person to swear in our chat was me. Guenther was an incredibly charming guest - honest, thoughtful and kind. We talked about failure in sport, how to keep calm in high pressure situations and what Toto Wolff is *really* like. Plus, Guenther’s regrets at not spending enough time with his family and why there are no women drivers in F1. The only question that stumped him was when I asked what his favourite car was - you’ll have to listen for the answer. Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly Studio and Mix Engineer: Gulliver Tickell and Josh Gibbs Senior Producer: Selina Ream Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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will teach ourselves more about success. And you can join me for more How to Fail in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Every week I get some extra time with my guests to answer your failures and questions. This week, you'll hear more from Gunter Steiner. If you've got people around which try to make you somebody, you are not. Change people. Yes, exactly. Change people, not yourself. Change people around you, not yourself. And we'd love to hear from you. Just follow the link in the podcast notes. I have never been to a Formula One race. I have, in fact, never even watched one on television.

And yet I know more about the sport and its personalities than almost any other. And it's entirely because of the hit Netflix show F1 Drive to Survive. The breakout star of this documentary series is Gunter Steiner, although hilariously, he claims never to have watched it himself. The Italian-born Steiner was, until the end of last year, the team principal of Haas, remarkably the first American constructor to compete in Formula One in three decades. Despite giving the team his heart, soul and impressive vocabulary of swear words over eight years, Haas experienced a number of setbacks and a disappointing end to 2023, scoring just one point in the final 13 Grand Prix of the season. And yet Steiner's story

is one of hard-won success. He was born in Mirano, Northern Italy, the son of a butcher. Although he did well at school, he became fascinated by a hill climb motorsport event that took place near his home. He started out as an apprenticeship mechanic, became a chauffeur and briefly a co-driver for a rally team in the early 90s. Then he entered F1, working at Red Bull and Jaguar, before persuading Haas to launch a team. Early this year, he became an F1 commentator for a German TV channel and was named ambassador for the Miami Grand Prix. I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm okay with who I am, Steiner writes in his best-selling book Survive to Drive.

You can't rehearse the shit I come out with. Gunter Steiner, welcome to How to Fail. Thanks for having me, Elisabeth. It is such a pleasure to have you. Would you like to hear my Gunter Steiner impression? Go ahead. Fork an a**! Was it any good?

I think so it was good, you know. You know, and by the way, I didn't watch Drive to Survive just to make sure that that is true. Okay. Yes. Nobody believes me, you know, I didn't watch it, you know, and you can ask my family. And why have you not watched it? I said, I didn't watch it, you know, and you can ask my family. And why have you not watched it?

I didn't watch it. When it came out, there was an F1 commission meeting and everybody, F1 commission is all the team principals, the president of the FIA and the CEO of FRM. And they had the premiere the night before and I walk into this meeting and everybody was like, what did you do? What you said? And I was like, I obviously knew what I did, but I didn't know what they put into the thing. So I was almost scared. When you get this

feeling, I actually don't want to be here. And they kept on talking. And then I decided, oh, I better don't watch this because I was embarrassed enough without watching it. Can you imagine if I watch it? Because I'm not an actor. I'm not an actor. So I don't need to watch myself to get better. And I don't like to watch myself anyway. So I said, I'm not watching it because otherwise, every time I see a camera around me, I wouldn't be myself anymore. Some people don't like it, but if some people don't like it, don't watch it. It's a remote controller. I mean, I think you're being modest because people love it and they love you. And I wonder how that feels because you can barely walk anywhere without being asked for selfies. I mean, I don't know what it was like for you

this morning walking to the studio. You've turned up on your own. Did you get stopped a lot? I got stopped twice this morning, you know, until the first one spots you, you know, then other people see it and then they realize who you are because if you just walk, it's not too bad, you know, it's fine. Your accent is one of the unique things about you. Tell me where it comes from because there are various different influences that have combined to make this voice. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice way to put it, you know. So I'm from Northern Italy, so at home I speak German, but it's Italy, so I speak fluently Italian after my national service where I moved to Belgium where I learned English. I didn't speak a word of English before moving there.

I learned English there and I think it's just a mix of all these languages which makes me speak like this. I don't know. For anyone who hasn't watched an F1 race or the Netflix show, what does a team principle do? A team principle is basically like a CEO of a corporate. It's a small corporate, because a corporate with a lot of different things. There is marketing, there is communication, there is technology, there is going racing, there is the operations, there is a lot. But different to a CEO of a big corporate, you get measured every race weekend.

A corporate CEO get measured every three months, every quarter, his numbers. Did you make money or not? In motorsport, you're just as good as your last race. If you were good last weekend and this weekend you are not good, you're not good. Yeah, it's quite a challenging job. There's also a challenging aspect because there's a sort of mechanical engineering aspect where the team is only as good as its car very often. How much does it rely on the driver and how much does it rely on the car? The best way to explain it is a good driver in a bad car cannot win, but a bad driver in a good car can win. There is no bad F1 driver, but there is the really good ones

and the good ones. A good one in a very good car can win, while a very good driver in a bad car hasn't got a chance. And what makes a really good F1 driver? What are the core skills and characteristics you think? It's a natural talent. You know, some people say there is nothing like talent. You can learn everything. I still am a big believer in some. You're born with the talent. You just need to find it. I think the talent is the base. And then it's just like, there's so many little things. First of all, to get started, you need support, money, and just a little bit of luck.

But when you get there, you just need also mental, you need to be very strong. The driving, once you get to have fun, it's only part of it. You need to be a master of that. But it's all the other distractions around you, all the people which want something, all the pressure you get if you are not performing. You need to know when it's you and when it's the car. Even if they try to explain you, it's you. You need to be sure.

I think you need good people around you. Because when you're young, these guys are coming into Formula One, they're 18, 19. I mean, what do they know? They come into this circus where millions of people adore you. It's so easy to get distracted and believe something you are not. So you need people which keep you grounded, which show you the way. It strikes me hearing you speak. And I know he didn't drive for your team, but Lewis Hamilton

embodies all of that. Would you agree? Yeah, I think I think Lewis is very mature. Also, business wise, very good. He's always calm. Also, he was fortunate enough when the sport was growing and he was at the beginning when the big growth started of the sport. So he grew with it. He didn't come in when the sport was where it is now.

And once you are two or three times world champion, you're good, because you have made your mark, you're credible, you're everything. You just need to stay yourself. You don't need to get distracted by the wrong things. I think he really enjoys who he is and what he does. You have outlined such an incredibly stressful dynamic and yet you strike me as someone who is so calm. There's a calm energy about you that I actually hadn't anticipated having watched the show. How do you stay calm and how do you manage stress?

I'm normally pretty calm. I'm not very patient, but like in racing, I get excited. But normally in life, I think it's much better to be calm and think about things than just stress. I've got stress, but I manage it myself. I say, I need to do things, but just by doing things, I put them in a line in my head. I need to get this and this done. I try never to be late because that puts me under stress because I don't like to be late. So I'm always early. So it's like I take that stress away. But in general, if you think things through enough, and I'm sometimes a very late thinker, but I always try to organize them just in time

so I'm not getting stressed out. Sometimes the most difficult things for me to, but I always try to be on top of things as much as I can. And why is there an absence of female Formula One drivers? How long have you got? It's something that's always because I don't know. A lot of people ask and I always want to explain that very good. First of all, we must say there is a big drive now to get a female driver into F1, a good

one, not just because she's female. That is the... And there's F1 Academy, it's a racing series which started last year, which is run by the CEO is Susie Wolf, the wife of Toto Wolf, and trying to get the talent up there. I go back to my talent in the beginning. I just invent a number. You've got 100,000 boys. In 100,000, to find somebody good is a lot easier in 100,000 than in 1,000 girls. There are so few females starting young going go-karting because these people need to start at seven, eight, nine years old. How many girls which go go-karting? Very few.

How many boys? Quite a lot. What needs. What it needs to be done is to get more girls going into the grassroot racing so that there's a bigger pool to get a talent which can make it to F1. And I think this one, F1 Academy is helping a lot. I think the class which is racing in the moment in F1 Academy, I think they're already told to make it to F1 because I think between 17 and 20 something like this. But until they're already told to make it to F1 because I think between 17 and 20, something like this, but until they raise a few years and go to F2 and it's too late. But at least the girls now, they know there is a ladder into F1 and that is important. And I always say

the parents to encourage also girls if they've got interest in now Formula One, but it will take time because before racing or car motorsport was seen as a men's sport. It was actually seen in the old days as a macho sport, then it was a men's sport. But I do not think that physically there is a problem for a female to be a good driver. Before we get onto your failures, I want to do a quick fire round for the drive to survive geeks, where I'm going to give you a name and you've got to give me one word, the first word that comes to your mind. Are you ready? Ready.

Toto Wolf? Good guy. Christian Horner? Good guy. Lando Norris? Very good driver. Max Verstappen? Very, very, very good driver.

Okay. Frédéric Vasseur, I know you're going to be on this one. A friend. Yeah. Nores. Very good driver. Max Verstappen. Very, very, very good driver. Okay. Frédéric Vasseur. I know you're going to be a friend. Yeah. Oh, look at you being so lovely and diplomatic. Okay. Let's get on to your failures. Your first failure is not winning a world championship title. Are you still disappointed by that? Yes, I'm disappointed because I don't do anything without the aim to win something. I'm not in motorsport just to have a job.

That is not why I'm here. I want to win something. And that's maybe also the reason why all these things that I left has happened because I wanted to move forward and the owner didn't. So at some point it's like to fight to be eight, seven over and over again, it gets old. I want to achieve more. And at some stage you rather take a step back to make it too forward, then keep on doing more of the same. When you feel like I'm not actually achieving what I want to achieve, to win a world championship is difficult. And by no means could I say

would I have won it with another team? No. But at least I want to have the chance to put myself in a position to win it. And otherwise I do something else which I like as good, just to work hard and being not able to win it, knowing that you cannot win it. Why would you keep on doing that? And when you are constantly seventh or eighth or struggling for points and podiums, obviously that's a professional disappointment, but I wonder how it affects you personally. It's frustration more than anything else. I'm actually a very positive person. I say, how can we do it that we get there? And I don't not just think on tomorrow or the next

race, I think two, three years ahead because these are big projects and it affects you that you actually wear yourself out. And I just realized that when I left, that I was just treading water. I worked more than I should just to stand still. After a month or two years away, I saw everything clear again, and I analyzed why it wasn't possible and why it was the right thing happening for me. In the morning I can get up and do what I like to do, knowing what I want to achieve, I have a chance to achieve. Sometimes change is good and I like my life in the moment, what I'm doing, I'm enjoying it, I learn new things and that's what I want to do now and I achieve it. In the moment I cannot be world champion because I'm not running a race team but I'm perfectly fine with that. But I can achieve what I want to do now and I achieve it. In the moment I cannot be world champion because I'm not running a race team, but I'm perfectly

fine with that. But I can achieve what I want to do. I think what comes up again and again as you're talking is the secret to contentment is understanding what you have control over and the things that you don't have control over. And when you don't have control over something so big, did it ever make you depressed? No, I'm not the person which gets depressed. I maybe get quiet, I call it. You dwell on it. In the end, I think I'm strong enough to say if it doesn't work, I do something different. I'm not afraid to make a decision. I realised it, but maybe I didn't want to

realise it. It is not possible. It was a very difficult situation. But then when you get out, it became clear very quick that this was actually the best thing for me to happen. And what was it like for your wife during that time seeing you go quiet and having this conflict with your dream, but not being able to fulfil it? I mean, I'm married now this year, 30 years. She knows me pretty well, you know. Congratulations. Yeah. I think she realized that something was not right. She knows me a long time and

she knows that I'm somebody who puts 100% in at any time, you know. And she didn't want to interfere, but I think if she would be sitting here now and we would ask her, I think she could tell you that she could see that I was somehow not in the right place sometimes, that it was not going well, that something is bothering me. When you got that call, I think it was in December 2023. Last year, yeah, 2023. Saying that your contract was not going to be renewed and you'd lost your job. How did

that feel? Indifferent. Really? That's so revealing. Yeah, I tried to find a solution to get out of this hole I was in, but they were not accepted. When it happened, it was like, I don't care. I didn't want to take the blame for being where the team was, because it wasn't me. It's for some other reason. It's not my company. I need to respect that. I'm big enough to do that. You can do what you want, but I'm fine with it. Tell me a little bit about Jungunter and this obsession that you had with cars and with racing from quite an early age, it sounds like. So what were you like as a child? How

would you describe yourself? The perfect child. I always listened to my parents, you know, I was always nice, you know. Why don't I believe you? No, I just had this passion and I don't know where it comes from. It's one of these things, it's like my family had nothing to do with racing, where I come from. There is this one race, there was, it's not there anymore. Also, that is forbidden, you know, there was no racing. I just was attracted by racing cars and cars in general, but I love just racing cars. No idea where I came from. Nobody in the family, nowhere close friends, nothing. I just was obsessed by it.

I always begged my father to take me to that one race which was in the region because traveling in them days was a lot more difficult than now. He took me quite a few times, my dad, over the years, but no idea where I came from. It was one of my dreams to work in racing and how I got in was weird as well. After my national service, there was a job at work in a magazine. We didn't have internet at the time, so you read magazines and I just wrote a letter to them and they said, come for an interview and they accepted me in Belgium. And we are talking about the 80s, it was a different world.

A lot of people who listen to this now, they are a lot younger than this, but it was a completely different world. But I got accepted and I went to Belgium, lived a little bit more than two years in Belgium and enjoyed every day of it. And there my career in motorsport started. And did your parents understand it? My dad passed away when I was 18. I'm so sorry.

So he was not around anymore. Yeah, my mom understood that. She was fine with that. She supported me. She said, try something different. If you don't try, you never get anything. So this failure to win a world championship title, because this is a podcast all about learning and what data we can acquire from failures, what do you think you've learned from it? What I think I learned of it is I should have left earlier. When you get the feeling it's not right,

listen to your feeling. I had the feeling, but then obviously being in F1, you're attracted, everybody's interested, you create a lot of interest in it, and you're almost afraid to co-lequits. But then when you co-lequits, it's actually better. Whatever it is. I think, and you rightly say, failure makes you good, in my opinion. You have to be careful with failures as well. If you fall too hard, it's not good. But anyway, and what I learned here is like,

next time around or whenever it is, I will listen more to my inner feelings, not to my ego. You might be interested in our show because we recap all the documentaries that you're watching. We've covered just about every true crime case you can imagine. We're talking the hatchet-wielding hitchhiker, the Ted Bundy tapes, what else? The Turpent 13 with the amazing sisters who basically tell the story, the girl in the picture.

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We've had two-parters, we've even had three-parters. This is a four-parter. And the reason why we're giving it four podcasts is it's probably the greatest individual rivalry in Premier League history. Yes, us and Wenger vs Alex Ferguson. We've bitten off more than we can chew. What it reminds me of, I saw a video on social media the other day

of a Python having swallowed a duvet. And the vets were trying to get the duvet out of the Python. I thought that is like me and Colin having to skip over FA Cup finals because there's so much to talk about when it comes to Wenger and Ferguson. Doubles, trebles, pizza round the face, it has everything. If you want to listen to the podcast equivalent of a Python swallowing a duvet,

follow everything to play for on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge seasons early and ad free right now on Wondry+. Do you think you could be a team principal again? I think I could, yeah, but I don't know. I don't go around to shop for a job as a team principal. I'm not doing that. If there is a project out there where I like the project and I can see something possible to do with the support, the people involved in it, yes, I do it. But I'm not hunting for a team principal job in the moment. I'm very busy now. I enjoy what I'm doing now.

I set up a company. I've got my own company in North Carolina and the States, which gives me some security or quite a good security. I was lucky as well in life. I always had, always, 90% of the time, the jobs I had, I really enjoyed them. I can do what I like to do in life. And that's something, it's a privilege and I know that. So I want to continue to do this. I'm doing the V-Work. I enjoy it because I learn a lot. At some stage, maybe I don't want to do it anymore. But then I go and do the next thing because thing after thing comes because after I left house when it was announced, I thought I've got a year.

I take it easy, you know, because spend a little bit more time with the family and enjoy life. The day after it was announced, I got the phone started ringing emails. Can you do this? You want you do this? You want to do this? You want to do that? Because, and then all of a sudden you're in this mill again, just doing a different job, but I'm very busy. So I mean, but I'm enjoying it and I need to work hard because of the races with TV work and appearances, you know, you're on a schedule, but I like it and I choose to do it, you know, I don't have to, but I like it. And I choose to do it, you

know, I don't have to do it, which is a nice thing to be. It's not something I'm upset in the morning when I wake up not to be a team principal. I'm pretty good with it. Not being one. Yeah. You touched on it there about spending time with your family and it brings us onto your second failure, which I'm really touched that you have chosen to talk about this with me, thank you. Your second failure, as you put it, is as her father not spending enough time with Greta, your daughter, when she was young and growing up. Yeah, I got a father pretty late, you know, she's only 15.

How old are you? Sorry. 22. 59. 59, okay were you? I'm trying to do the math. 44. 44. Yeah. So it was pretty late. And at the time I was setting up my company and there was a lot more at home. And what's your company? Sorry. It's a composite company. Okay. We have got now 230 people. My business partner, Ransit, we grew up pretty well and my business partner, Ransit, day to day basis, so they don't want me because I mess it up, by the way. I started that company and then Greta was born.

We started the same year I started the company when she was born, but I was a lot at home and then all this has have once started and I started to travel. I think a lot of people say when they get older, I regret not to have seen my kids enough. And I always thought, yeah, that is just a jargon. Everybody says that. But then now that I had the chance to be more at home, I had the chance, am I aware again, I could see how much she missed it. I? I could see how much she missed it. I was not really aware how much she missed it.

And now she starts to complain again because I'm gone a little bit more like in the beginning of the year. But I still, and that's the thing is like, yeah, did I miss out? Yes, absolutely. I'm not proud of myself about that one. But then it's one of these other things.

I was on a mission as well and I tried to give back as much as I can. You never can give back time. The only thing you can buy is time. So I will never overcome this, but I realized it and I try somehow to make up for it. She mentioned pretty often, you're always away. And now if I go away, she actually says, you're going away again, you said you stay at home. So it makes you feel guilty.

But when you're in this run, when you keep on going and going, you actually do not realize what you miss out of, until it's the same like when you're in it, you just don't realize it. And I always thought when I was younger, everybody says, oh, I missed seeing my children growing up. But until you experience it, I at least didn't realize how important it is.

What do you think you missed out on? Just being around for her because I think I missed out to understand how much a child actually loves you. You know, because you took other priorities and somehow they feel that they are not number one in your life. You just miss out on time you can spend with them. And as I said before, you cannot buy time. You mentioned earlier that your father died when you were 18 and I wonder how that has informed your own approach to fatherhood and to time? It's difficult to say because if the father goes this, you know, I was very young, I had

a whole life in front of me, you deal with the situation and maybe my parents, they worked very hard to give us a good upbringing, so they were not always around. And maybe I was maybe used a little bit to that one, to be on my own a lot and then didn't realize that that is not normality. For me, normality is different than maybe it should be. And then I assumed also to Greta that this,, that this, because this is not, was normal for me, it should be normal for her. And you don't realize, I mean, you make a good point there. And how was your wife coping with this situation where you were, because you do have to travel an enormous amount, you're on the road 10 months a year. So she presumably was a full-time parent. Did you ever feel that you were letting her

down? I said before, I'm married 30 years this year and when we met, she doesn't know any different. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. Obviously, she wasn't happy and what I always tried to do when it was possible, not to take her to all the races because there's no point to take your partner to work. But when there was a nice place we went to, she, for example, came to about four to five races a year, which makes it a lot better.

But it is not easy and I have a lot of respect for that, for her that she brought Greta up, and I'm very thankful of that. But it's one of these things. It gets normality and it shouldn't be, but you know, it's normality. But I know it is not normal. But in the end, on a day-to-day basis, I don't thank her every day that she does it, but she knows that I actually respect it a lot, you know. But also I think what she knows, I need to be happy in what I'm doing, otherwise I'm

a miserable person. Having me sitting at home with nothing to do is not fun. I'm just not fulfilled. I'm in a bad mood, I'm bored. She knows that I always need something to do. Sometimes she tells me, like in the moment, you need to calm down a little bit, you're trying to do too much again. But that's my nature. You know, I always want to do something. So I think I still have to find that happy balance between doing too much and doing too little, there's something in between, but

I never hit that. So how do you think you've stayed married for 30 years? What was, what are the secrets to it? I think we get along very well, we respect each other and I think respect is a lot of each other. Obviously, every marriage has got its problems. I mean, our one was not perfect I must say, but it was good, it was very good. And I mean, she's here now with me in London, I take her with me because she loves London. I said, just come with me, you know, we try to spend time together.

But I think it's just because when we moved from our home place, we moved to I lived in the UK for 10 years. We got married and the year after we moved to England, then we moved to the States. We always did this together. It was always she was there for the adventure with me. And I think that kept it together. If I there for the adventure with me, and I think that kept it together. If I would have said, oh, you stay back in Italy, I come back, then no, let's do it. Let's do this. And if it doesn't work, we go and do something different. I think that's what it

is. And I think she quite likes the adventures. She must be, because otherwise she wouldn't be with me, because it's not a boring life she's having, you know, being married with me for 30 years. Because as you can imagine, sometimes I'm not the easiest guy to deal with. But I think it's just like we started a trip and we are still traveling, you know. I love that. You're going on the adventure together. Tell me about Greta and what she's like. Apparently she doesn't let you order in restaurants because she's embarrassed by your accent. Is that right? Oh, yeah, yeah, that is, yeah. In the States, you and what she's like. Apparently she doesn't let you order in restaurants because she's embarrassed by your accent. Is that right? Oh yeah, yeah. That is, yeah. In the States, you know, it's like, I order because they don't understand you. You have a terrible accent, you know. She's pretty outspoken.

Oh yeah. She speaks her mind, but no, she's in general a good girl. I mean, she has got her own mind, which I'm actually proud of, you know. She's not shy of anything. But, and I think she enjoys life. Is she into cars at all? No, no. I mean, she's into cars because she started to drive now. She's 50 in the States, she can drive. So, but she's not into cars. I mean, she looks a little bit at it, but not like that she's passionate about it. Now, what about swearing? Because I noticed that you haven't sworn at all during the course of this conversation. On TV, you do swear a lot, presumably because you're under a

lot of pressure. At home, do you swear? No. At home, I don't swear. And they always say, they come to people wherever I work, I've got the switch in front of the press, I don't swear. This swearing just comes when I speak between people, it just comes into but it's not badly meant. I don't swear at people. I swear about circumstances normally. There is no exception. But when you are racing, there it comes up, you know, there you use, I use this language and I don't know where it comes from, but I lose control over it. But when I'm in an environment where you are not allowed to swear, I don't have even to, I just don't do it.

It's like, as I said before, with the language, I think in English, when I speak English, German, when I speak German, when I speak somebody like you here, I don't even have to think. It's just not, it's not going to happen. You're fluent in non-swearing language. Yeah, exactly. I speak four languages, you know, English, non-swearing, English, German and Italian. Do you swear in other languages? Yeah. What's your favorite language to swear in?

English. I mean, they are good. They are good. It's the hard sounds. Yeah, exactly. It says something. Do you swear? I love swearing. What does your husband say? He loves swearing. Actually, it's so interesting you said that because one of the things we met on a dating app, we met on Hinge, and he said one of the first things that attracted him to me was the fact I swore in my profile. I said, fuck in my profile or something. Not in that context. And he liked that. Yeah. So, so it bonded us.

So I can imagine when you were for fallout, the language used there, or you never fallout with you. We don't, we're good communicators. It's a second marriage. You swear at each other, yeah? We swear at the situation. We do a good testiner. We swear at the situation, but not at each other.

I think it's a second marriage and we both learned from the failure of the first. So actually we're good at communicating. So it's generally okay. Anyway. Generally okay. I love that we've spoken about swearing and you still haven't sworn. I'm just so impressed. Final question on this failure. What advice would you give to anyone who is a parent who

is potentially feeling that tension between work and family and maybe feels if they're honest with themselves that they are working too hard and time is passing them by? What advice would you give? I think some people haven't got the choice. they need to do the work, but then try to try to integrate it. As I said, if I travel, I make the effort to take the family with me sometimes. I mean Greta came with us to a few races, you know, just to try to make up like this when you're around. Very, very difficult to do. Easy to say, very difficult to do. It's one of these things. It's just like always be conscious about it.

And if you're conscious about it, you will find the additional five minutes, 10 minutes to spend time together, you know, but consciously, actively do something about it. Not just say, yeah, I'm not good enough at it, but it's okay. No, it's not okay. Thank you Gunther. No, it's not okay. Thank you Gunther. What's it like to trade crypto on Kraken? Let's say I'm in a state of the art gym surrounded by powerful looking machines. Do I head straight for the squat rack?

I could, but this gym has options, like trainers, fitness pros, fighters to back me up. That's crypto on Kraken, powerful crypto tools backed by 24-7 support and multi-layered security. Hi, I'm Dan Jones and this is History a dynasty to die for is back for a brand new season. This time we meet Edward the Second, a larger-than-life character who starts out as the party boy prince and ends up, well I don't want to give too much away. He's got one thing on his mind, not war, not ambition, but love. And it's a love that will get him in burning hot trouble with his barons, his family and his queen. The King's affection for his favourite knight kicks off a wild rollercoaster reign full of love and hate, war and grief, famine and just about all the horsemen of the apocalypse.

Along the way we'll meet tiger mums, Scottish legends, murderous cousins, a herd of camels and one extremely hot iron poker. Listen to and follow This Is History A Dynasty To Die For, available wherever you get your podcasts. Your final failure is being too impatient and always in a hurry. And I think we've heard a sense of that because it feels like you're in a hurry to leave your mark on the world in many ways, which I think is a great thing. I feel the same. I don't know if that's a great thing if I leave a mark on the world. A legacy rather than a mark.

When was the first time you remember being impatient? I think I always was. I think already as a kid, I was always impatient to get things done, to do the next thing. I have to very, very much consciously think to finish projects, just get everything done. And I actually get it, but it's this impatience also always, let's do something more. I can do more. This impatience of doing the next thing and doing more. And I think it was there all the time.

And it's also strange. A lot of things came to me, you know, and then I just grabbed them. I never hesitated, you know, if there was an opportunity, I never hesitated to leave what I had for the new thing, you know, and I think that has to do with my impatience to do the next thing, you know.

I think it worked out pretty well for me in general, but it could have gone the other way as well. I was in a very good place. and then I did the next thing, took a big risk to do the next thing. Most of it worked out. I mean, obviously not everything worked out, but I don't know. And that's why I say being impatient, it doesn't mean that it's a really bad thing, but it could be a bad thing. So sometimes I should be more patient and look through things better, but I cannot do it.

Do you think you'll ever get to a point in your life where you can sit back and prune your tomato plants in your villa in Italy and just relax and think, oh, I did that, I achieved that and I feel happy with my life? I do not think so. Not in the moment, maybe it comes when I get older, but in the moment I could not. Like a lot of people talk about retirement, I don't want to know about it because I cannot see myself what you just said, just sit back and look at what I did and no, I'm fine with what I did, but there's still a lot I want to do or move on.

So that is also the impatience. I don't think I can, I don't know, in the, I cannot think that that will happen. And is that because there's a sense of fear of not having every moment filled or not doing but just being? Does it scare you? It could be. It could be. Just being, you know, is something I'm not comfortable with. Just sitting still, I'm not comfortable with. I'm always thinking something up. I mean, I think you're right. It's just this fear of not doing anything that makes me impatient, you know, to do the next thing.

I'm guessing you don't meditate. No. Look at that, Hansel was quick. Do you sleep well? Very well. Oh, that's good. Okay. I'm actually experiencing relief now, but at least you do get some rest. My wife always tells me how you do it.

When I was doing all this traveling, I can sleep very well. It's a strange thing. For me, having sleepless nights, there are very few. I must say, I cannot say I all, I mean, I can't say I'm always sleeping perfect, but I'm a good sleeper. And how important is the idea of legacy to you of what you leave behind? I don't think about it because I don't want to leave yet. Okay, yeah, so you're so in the moment. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I'm not really thinking about it. No. How would you like people to think of you?

If they had three words, what three words would you like people to think of you? Can't come up with. We can play Shag, Married, Kill if you'd rather. I don't know what the people should think. The guy which did what he liked to do, you know. I think you're kind. I try to be kind. I think of myself very normal. I don't want to be anything special, anything. I just want to enjoy what I'm doing. I want to have the people around me having a good time. I'm pretty calm and

I respect people a lot. I try to respect everybody. People who respect me get my respect. I'm pretty relaxed about things in life. So this impatience and this always being in a hurry, you've listed it as a failure, but to me it sounds as though you're quite at peace with it rather than feeling that it is. I'm at peace with it because I cannot change it. I don't think it's a bad habit or anything. What could happen if I would be patient? You could build up a lot more with it, but in the end we'll never know because I cannot have it both ways, you know, so I will not have this if it is bad or good for me, I don't know. But if I could, I would be more patient. That's why I say it's a failure. I cannot achieve

it to be more patient. I can try. It just is not going to happen, you know. Going back to the overarching theme of failure, I wonder what F1 specifically teaches you about failure because it is a very dangerous sport apart from anything else. What do you think you've learned about failure from your years in F1? I think if you fail in F1, it's in your face, you will get to know about it because we are so public about things and they will tell you that you're a failure. If you fail too much, you have no place there. It will spit you out, you know, because it's so competitive, the sport, and so many people want to be in it. But it's not only Formula One. It's every competitive business is like failure is not accepted.

Do you therefore have to be very clear that when you're told you failed, you don't internalise it and think you are a terrible failure as a human being? Absolutely. I mean, you don't have to get, let it get to you, you know, and I always say for me, it is like, I think we, we all have a limit. We all hit the ceiling at some stage. And I always try to make sure that I don't go above my capabilities of my talent because I will fail in what I do beyond that. And it's just finding the right place. How far can I take it? And I think everybody,

even the best singer, the best politician, everybody got a limit, you know, and to find that limit, to be just at the limit, not over it and not under it, because if you're under it, you're underperformed, for yourself you're underperformed, but when you're over it, you will fail because you're beyond what you know and what you can do. What is your favourite car of all time? Favorite car of all time? Not which I own, just the car I like. Yes, just the dream car. My dream car. This is the question that's caused you the most trouble.

Exactly. I would say the Tommaso Pantera. You know what that is? It's an old car from the, I think the seventies or eighties they built it. It's a sports car, an Italian sports car, which doesn't exist anymore. It's just like, I liked it as a kid and I think it's just a cool car. What do you like about it? Does it look nice? Yeah, it looks nice. It looks cool. It looks nice. you know, it is a very powerful, not powerful as engine, powerful how it stands there, you know, it's very macho, put it this way. What's it called again? The Tomaso Pantera. The Tomaso Pantera. The Tomaso Pantera, yeah. Gunter Steiner, you are my Tomaso Pantera. I cannot thank you enough for the hours of

entertainment you've provided me with and also for being such a wonderful, warm and open guest. Thank you so much for coming on How to Fail. Thanks for having me, Elisabeth. Thank you. Appreciate it. Don't go anywhere because we're actually about to answer listener failures and problems. So I don't know what you're like at giving advice, but we're about to find out on failing with friends. Remember to follow us to get new episodes as they land on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please share a link with everyone you know. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you

so much for listening.