How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Jon Bon Jovi - Fame is a liar and a thief

Starting point is 00:00:00 I don't think I could do this anymore. I don't know why, but I'm okay with walking away from this because there's no way I'm dragging down the legacy. Wasn't that. The only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger. I'm not doing this for the applause. I'm not doing it for the money. I'm not doing it for the fame.

Starting point is 00:00:15 I've had enough of all of it. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that firmly believes that while success is nice, it's really failure that helps you grow. Before we get into this conversation, please do remember to subscribe so that you never miss a single episode. Would you believe us if we told you there was a podcast that was haunted? Well, there is. It's called Two Girls, One Ghost. We didn't want to believe it at first, but eight years later and hundreds of encounters submitted by listeners later, we can no longer ignore it.

Starting point is 00:00:45 Two Girls, One Ghost is the most haunted podcast in America. We're talking ghosts caught on camera. Demonic possessions. Cursed mirrors. Bigfoot. Near-death experiences. Unsolved mysteries. Missing persons.

Starting point is 00:00:57 Each week, we explore the deepest. darkest, spookiest places in the world, delivering doses of research, history, and spine-tangling tales. To start listening, download the Amazon music app, search for Two Girls One Ghost, and click Follow to keep up with new episodes. You can also ask Alexa. Alexa, play the podcast Two Girls One Ghost on Amazon Music. New episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday. Satisfy that spooky itch and entertain your inner witch with two girls, one ghost. But be warned. Side effects might include a haunting or two. Very spooky.

Starting point is 00:01:37 Joel Domit, shall we tell these wonderful people about the new business that we're starting? Good idea, Ben Shepard, especially if we want them to come along for the ride. Which is exactly what we want. Quite simply, we are starting a business. We're starting a brand. This is not going to be a television show. There's no bright lights and makeup. This is very, very real, Ben. We've got no idea how to do it, but we are going to share the whole journey with you right here on our brand new podcast. The Businessmen podcast, out now. In a world of exaggeration and bias, the word legendary is often overused. But my guest today lays genuine claim to the term.

Starting point is 00:02:19 He is an American singer, songwriter, guitarist, actor and philanthropist, who, along with his band, sold more than 130 million. albums and performed in over 50 countries for more than 40 million fans before being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Born and raised in New Jersey, he ran errands at his cousin's recording studio as a teenager and started playing in local clubs at the age of 16. An early hero was local rising star Bruce Springsteen, whom he now counts as a friend. The rock band he fronted was formed in 1983 and released a string of world-dominating hits, including You Give Love a Bad Name, Blaze of Glory, and Living on a Prayer. He is, of course, John Bon Jovi. John Bon Jovi. I have the English pronunciation. Do you? You can have that for free.

Starting point is 00:03:11 Sample it in one of your records. So far then, so rock and roll. But there is another side to his public success. As chairman of his own non-profit foundation since 2006, John, Bon Jovi has focused on providing food and shelter to those in need. His sole kitchen encourages paying customers to make a suggested donation for their meal and to cover the cost for someone in need. After undergoing vocal cord surgery that could have left him unable to sing, Bon Jovi is back with the album Forever Legendary Edition, featuring collaborations with Bruce Springsteen, Robbie Williams, Avril Levine, James Bay and many more. The band's first forever tour will kick off next year with dates in America and Europe. But John Bon Jovi

Starting point is 00:04:00 insists that he's not an applause junkie. I do it for the joy and I do it for the art, he says. The rest of it is great because I'm good at it. But if you couldn't do it from a place of joy, what's the motivation? John Bon Jovi, welcome to how to fail. Thank you, Elizabeth. Good to be here. I'm coming from a place of joy today, having You sitting opposite me. Thank you. Are you a believer in the fact that you are not what you do? You are something deeper entirely. Oh, most definitely. It's not who I am. Performing, making records is what I do. It's not who I am. It's an aspect of it, but it's not the one and only aspect of it or who I am. I'm intrigued that you started out running errands at your cousin's recording studio. What kind of errands? How true gop fur, a coffee boy.

Starting point is 00:04:56 The guy they went for the burgers or the beers or the dry cleaning or whatever else anybody might need. I've gone as far to have to go place bets on the horses. But I did, I did, I did. I met a second cousin who I barely knew. And thank God he came to see my band and he said to my dad, the band stink, but the kids got something going for him. And he said, when you get out of high school, give me a call if there's anything I could ever do. And I just basically graduated high school, was playing original music, and said, what can I do? And he said, you can run errands.

Starting point is 00:05:29 And so I said, yeah, okay. So for 50 bucks a week, it was free and then it was 50 bucks a week. I got to be around the studio. What do you think it is about New Jersey that has had such a creative influence on so many artists? It's a diverse roster when you think about Frank Sinatra to Frankie Valley to the Fugis to, of course, Bruce Springsteen to Southside, Johnny, and the younger generation that's come after all of us. But being in the shadow of New York City has something to do with it, considering that my immigrant grandparents and great-grandparents didn't go much further than the New York Harbor. They got off the bone and they were like, whoa, we're not going any further. We're staying right here.

Starting point is 00:06:20 But growing up in the shadow of New York, that was a blessing, never a curse. You had New York media, you had access to theater, to concert venues, to radio stations that were going to be influential, to opportunity. And yet we grew up in the suburbs. You know, I mean, New Jersey is so close to Manhattan. I mean, it's literally through a tunnel or a bridge, depending on how you want to look at it. But where I grew up was 35 minutes away. So that would be considered a London suburb, you know.

Starting point is 00:06:53 That's a different state altogether. I almost had a city, but we didn't have cities in New Jersey. We had your equivalent of a village. So there's that sense of sort of wanting to get somewhere that lies just beyond the horizon, just beyond the tunnel? Yes and no. It wasn't about wanting to go across the bridge because you got there. because in a weird way you always felt like you were there. But what I do believe it gave us

Starting point is 00:07:17 was a chance to cut your teeth out of the spotlight. You were somewhat in the shadow. You know, you weren't asking to sneak into a club where, as I did at 16 and 17 years old, whereas in Manhattan there was probably 40 other kinds of guys like you that were older that were trying to vie for those same four slots in the nightclub, if you understand that, right? So out in the suburbs of New Jersey,

Starting point is 00:07:40 along these beach towns where there was bars next to bars next to bars there was opportunity and of course because of those who paved the way prior

Starting point is 00:07:50 especially Bruce in the rock and roll era Is it true that you wrote Runaway aged 19 in a bus station closer to 20 19 maybe closer to 20

Starting point is 00:08:03 19 and a half yeah because it was it was definitely 1982 I was taking the bus to and from New Jersey from my parents' house, and you'd get out at the Greyhound Station, and a lot of the young people in my age were hanging around the Greyhound Station. They didn't have opportunities

Starting point is 00:08:21 like I had been given to walk that 20 blocks up to the studio and back down to the bus station at the end of the day. Before we get onto your failures, I'd be doing our listeners and myself at a service if I didn't ask you about living on a prayer, and also tell you how much that song means to me and so many countless others. And I remember where I was when I first listened to it and I remember the feeling of infectious, like freedom it gave me. It's had over one billion streams on Spotify. What is it?

Starting point is 00:08:55 Two billion. Just in America. Oh, my gosh. What is that like? When you listen to that song now, what's that like for you? Well, because it was an out-of-body experience and I will defend my position. I'm one of three writers on it, okay?

Starting point is 00:09:12 Me, Richie and Des wrote it. And on the day that we walked into this very small room, not dissimilar from this little podcast studio we're in, was teeny with an acoustic guitar and upright piano and a notebook. None of us had any idea. You know, no great title, no great lyric, no great riff. We were going to write a song together. Okay.

Starting point is 00:09:32 When the song was finished, and the song was finished, lyrically the chords were what they were the melodies were all set in stone um i personally thought well it's good it's good you know it's telling a boy girl story it's shakespearean and that it's you know boy meets girl boy and girl will persevere if they work hard at it and um it didn't become the magic of what the song was until we went with the band and we developed that baseline now that i'm I'm very cognizant of because I was like, no, we need something that's a Pops like Motown. We'd play some Motown stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:10:09 Like that, sugar pie, honey, bunys, and then we developed that line, you know, at the octobo di, boom, bo, bo, do. And I remember very hard working with me, Richie Dez, Bruce Fairburn, the producer, on what was to become that. And then the key change I fell for because I was young. No one in their right mind should be.

Starting point is 00:10:32 be singing high seas, but I did. And that's when the song took on another life. And just to add insult to injury, it wasn't the first single on that album. And it wasn't the first single on that album because you give love a bad name sounded like it was going to be a radio-friendly hit song. Prayer didn't sound like anything by anybody anywhere. So I wasn't ready for it. I was surprised. Before we get on to your failures, your mother was both the Marine and a Playboy Bonnie. Correct. I mean, she must be the only person in the world.

Starting point is 00:11:07 Perhaps, right? That'd be a short list. That's so cool. I know. It's pretty cool. And the older I got, the more appreciated it because she did say to me over the course of her life, boot camp was nothing to her. And I thought, wow.

Starting point is 00:11:24 You know, it wasn't until I was really much older, that I realized what a tough life she had and how that she persevered. and broke free of, you know, childhood traumas to go on and make a life of her own. You turned up to this podcast recording early. You're an extremely punctual man. Do you think there's an aspect of that... Was that early?

Starting point is 00:11:46 Yeah. I'll go out in the lobby. Please don't. It just means I get extra time in your company. Do you think there's something, because your dad was a Marine too, that's when your parents met, isn't it? It is.

Starting point is 00:11:57 Is there something about that military discipline that you've inherited? Not necessarily. It wasn't a strict military upbringing at all. But I think that you learned about commitment, dedication, perseverance, you know, in and of a long career and a long life at this point. I've had the highest highs and I've had some pretty darn low lows. So, you know, punctuality is something that I admire because if I'm waiting on somebody, I'm cranky about it too. It's like, I'm here.

Starting point is 00:12:37 How come you're not? So, I don't know, I don't mind punctuality. You could be forgiven for traffic, but if it's just sheer laziness, and that's arrogance, and that's terrible. You can be a rock and roll legend and be punctual. What's what I'm with that? It's excellent. If my tickets say we're on at 730, you best be in your sense. Oh, my favorite kind of rock and roll star.

Starting point is 00:12:58 Okay, let's get on to your failures. Your first failure is, and I alluded to it in the introduction, your vocal issues and almost losing your voice. Tell us this story and when you first started realizing that there was something awry. Well, in this latest chapter of the saga of this body, probably 2014. In 2013, I had a tumultuous time and lost a band member who abruptly quit on us, the band, the crew, the fans, a couple of business dealings that didn't go the way I'd hope they would. And we overcame that. And I did 100 shows and persevered. In 2014, the body crashed out from under me.

Starting point is 00:13:53 I wasn't even aware. But I know that when I walked by my guitar, not only didn't I touch it, but I gave it the middle finger. I wasn't at all interested in seeing my friend. And by 2015, when I was attempting to go back to work, you know, maybe even a little bit, something just wasn't right. So this was odd for me.

Starting point is 00:14:16 This wasn't just, okay, I'll beat the muscle back into shape. There was something wrong. but I couldn't figure it out. 2016, we put out a record called This House is Not For Sale. It's very much a statement record. There's a chip on my shoulder. We work.

Starting point is 00:14:36 But again, physically, I'm not quite right, and I don't know why. So the tour is very short. After that, as we're writing what was to become 2020, and then COVID happens, you're not thinking about touring because there's no such thing. And by 2022, when the world is opening up again,

Starting point is 00:14:53 I'm thinking, okay, what's the big deal? Let's go. I'm past the difficulties of, you know, this house is not for sale. I'm past COVID like everyone else. I'm dying to get out in the world. I do what is to become a 15-show tour, and it's just not working anymore. And I don't understand it because, you know, as I, in a cliched world, you know, they said, well, you know, what have you done? What excesses?

Starting point is 00:15:19 It wasn't that. The only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger. it wasn't working and I willed it and I tried and I tried very hard on a daily basis on a 15 show tour which is practically you don't even bring a change of socks for 15 shows you know it's like that's nothing at the end of the 15th show I remember going into that dressing room in Nashville Tennessee and saying to my wife it's pretty good and she looked at me she said it wasn't. People think, oh, what a blow. It really wasn't because it's going to tell me the truth. At that day, I remember thinking to myself, well, time for a drink. I don't think I could do

Starting point is 00:16:05 this anymore. I don't know why, but I'm okay with walking away from this because there's no way I'm dragging down the legacy. And that began my journey to what got me here tonight. Speaking with you, as I sought out a surgeon who explained to me that one of my vocal cords had literally atrophied. It was dying and that he could do an implant surgery on the outside of the vocal cords to get them to close properly again, therefore simultaneously closing. And if I worked hard, he promised me nothing other than I would be better than I was that night in Nashville. had I known that it was going to be a three and a half year recovery

Starting point is 00:16:47 I very well might have said thank you good night but the process and the progress was steady enough that I didn't lose faith it was just nowhere near what I thought it would be in the recovery and then because of this record

Starting point is 00:17:05 and my putting it out a year plus ago I thought it's a bitch to let this moment in time slipped through my hands again with these last three albums so we reimagined the record and now and only now am I willing to go out on a limb and say yep I can play some shows because I feel fully recovered or close enough to fully recovered that I have faith in the process thank you so much for sharing that When you say an implant, is that, what is that? If you look closely here in the bottom of my throat, there's a scar.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Okay. That's where they cut you. It go right through the front. They put two pieces of vortex, which is plastic, outside of the vocal cords, but in the neck that close the muscles together. Outside, every time you say a word, the muscles push the cords together. and they were not firing symmetrically. And talk to me a little bit about the rehabilitation process,

Starting point is 00:18:12 because although you started off by saying you are not what you do, your voice is so endemic to who anyone is and your means of expression with the outside world, and I'm imagining there was a period of time where you couldn't speak, you couldn't communicate. It wasn't that extreme, and they told me it was going to be. But I did sound like the godfather. for a while. Have you come and see me on the day? Even that next day, they said, oh, you're not going to be able to talk. And I was able to talk like that. You certainly couldn't sing, and there was no way you could sing like you sing. So the process was very slow. And then six weeks after the surgery, I could take speech pathology kind of courses to work with the speech pathologist. Now, let me equate that. If when you're walking down the,

Starting point is 00:19:04 street and if you had a pebble in one of your shoes at first when you said ow ow ow then eventually you would compensate by leaning on the other leg in the other shoe till you got used to that pebble being in the first shoe and you compensate well i had basically seven or eight years of compensation to unwind so they had to start from scratch teaching me how to speak than how to ultimately make sound that sounded like singing and to get better and better throughout this process. And it's a constant evolution, but I'm confident enough now to know that, you know, I can sell a ticket.

Starting point is 00:19:54 I wasn't at all willing, you know, a year ago. Do you think that the way you sing or speak has changed? I think it's more the way I used to sing and speak now, and they've been able to unwind 90% of the bad habits, and I'm working on the last 10. And how hard was that journey for you? Well, it's like knowing it, you didn't know you had a pebble in your shoe for so long until someone took it out. You wouldn't know you had a pebble in your shoe, so I didn't know how I was, at the end

Starting point is 00:20:29 of a sentence going up, and at the end of a sentence going to you know, I didn't realize that. And these glottal strokes in your vocal cords were, and when I, uh, and I would have to, you know, I would like kind of wind up to a note to, to hit the pitch. I was starting to look like Joe Cocker in that 2022 tour, making the craziest faces and contorting my face, willing the vocal cord to get to the note that I was trying to reach. And I didn't understand why I couldn't. I do a full-on stadium show four times a week now, two hours, four days a week now, prepping for next summer. What did this whole experience teach you about resilience? I've always been a pretty resilient guy, and I've always had a will.

Starting point is 00:21:20 You know, my wife had said in the film, which was nice for her to say, he would will it into existence. I would just go and just, you know, plow through that field until I got to the other side. When I couldn't, because I physically couldn't, that was disheartening, but I didn't want to not do it. I'm not doing this for the applause. I'm not doing it for the money. I'm not doing it for the fame. I've had enough of all of it. But I would like to feel that joy and the resonance, even if it were only one last time.

Starting point is 00:21:54 I don't think this is anywhere near a farewell tour or anything like that. But if it were, you can trust that these few shows that I've announced are going to be joy-filled. Because this gratitude, humility, opportunity, you know, to go out there and do it again is all heartfelt. October really brings it all, doesn't it? Halloween parties, game day tailgates, those perfect crisp fall nights, and total wine and more is here for every single one. Whether you're inviting friends over for a spooky movie marathon or just savoring the cool fall air on your patio, you'll find exactly what you need. Thousands of wines, spears and beers, all at the lowest prices. Mixing up something spooky, Total Wine and More is your cocktail central for all your Halloween concoctions.

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Starting point is 00:23:16 We didn't want to believe it at first, but eight years later and hundreds of encounters submitted by listeners, later we can no longer ignore it two girls one ghost is the most haunted podcast in america we're talking ghosts caught on camera demonic possessions cursed mirrors bigfoot near-death experiences unsolved mysteries missing persons each week we explore the deepest darkest spookiest places in the world delivering doses of research history and spine-tangling tales to start listening download the amazon music app search for two girls one ghost and click follow to keep up with new episodes. You can also ask Alexa.

Starting point is 00:23:54 Alexa, play the podcast Two Girls One Ghost on Amazon Music. New episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday. Satisfy that spooky itch and entertain your inner witch with two girls, one ghost. But be warned. Side effects might include a haunting or two. Very spooky. Joel Domit, shall we tell these wonderful people about the new business that we're starting? Good idea, Ben Shire.

Starting point is 00:24:21 but especially if we want them to come along for the ride. Which is exactly what we want. Quite simply, we are starting a business. We're starting a brand. This is not going to be a television show. There's no bright lights and make up. This is very, very real, man. We've got no idea how to do it,

Starting point is 00:24:37 but we are going to share the whole journey with you right here on our brand new podcast. The Businessmen podcast, out now. You were raised Catholic, and you mention faith, albeit in a different context, in terms of your recovery. What does faith mean to you know? Oh, a lot.

Starting point is 00:24:55 Oh, it has a whole different meaning. The guilty Catholic upbringing in America had a, you know, a difficult time with my relation to the organized Catholic Church the way it was in my youth and upbringing. And I was in and out of Catholic schools a couple of times in grammar school and in high school. So my relationship to it was distant. But as I got older, my relationship to God has only increased dramatically, dramatically. And my belief in spiritual journey has deepened a hundredfold. I still don't feel the need to go to church with everybody at Sunday at 10.30 in the morning kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:25:41 But I'm there every day myself. You know what I mean? In my mind or in my heart. And on occasion when I go there to the building. Has that informed your philanthropic activities? Not necessarily. I think that came with travel, the world travel, with getting older, getting wiser, being a little more worldly, made me a little more in service. Going through what I did physically, which changed the course of my life mentally.

Starting point is 00:26:13 All of those things led me more and more and more to service. These are very, very, very trying times in the world. The quicker and the louder we become aware of it, and you hear people like you or I or anyone else saying it will give comfort and ease to those who don't have a microphone because anyone, everyone is going through some kind of anxiety now that we didn't have at a different time in our lives. Anxiety wasn't a word that I ever heard growing up.

Starting point is 00:26:47 It wasn't a word I ever heard 20, 30, 40. No way. No way. Not even in 50. But at 63, boy, do I hear it. Young kids, older kids, grown-ups, women, man, successful, non-successful. We all realize, you know, this is a very trying time in the world. You really care about people, don't you?

Starting point is 00:27:12 I hope so. More and more you should because... Maybe it's the access that we have to a whole planet and we see everything that goes on the way it does. Maybe it's this time in my own life, I don't know. But feeding somebody in a restaurant is no big, great lift, but I know it makes an impact. The dignity of it. Absolutely. And I don't need to be a scientist to find the cure.

Starting point is 00:27:40 It's a buck that costs me for some food. Let's go. there was a very moving story that I read about you in preparation for this interview about you interrupting the filming of a music video to talk to someone who was standing on the edge of a bridge possibly about to take their own life and you had a conversation with that person yeah people were walking right by this woman

Starting point is 00:28:09 and the lady that was standing us you know Imagine I, in this scene, on the bridge, you know, I'm shooting a music video, so they're like everyone get out of the way and there's only one PA who's basically holding a little speaker so I could hear timing for the music video. And the lady then said to me, that goes on the wrong side of the banister. So we went over to her and the side of the bridge and I spoke to her and was able to convince her to come back onto the right side of the bridge. Yeah, I wouldn't have ever mentioned it to the world. if the police hadn't released the film footage because they had an observation kind of tower viewing the bridge. Well, if you save one person's life, your own life is deeply meaningful.

Starting point is 00:28:54 So your second failure is not saying no to grueling, touring in the early years and the impact of that. Yeah, I've come to terms with that because I've done it more than once. You know, if anything, and you should learn from your mistakes. so I've burned the band out on more than one occasion guilty is charged you know in retrospect had I really learned from the first time which I claimed to have done it and then didn't realize when I did it the second time

Starting point is 00:29:27 that it was too much for some people to handle you know I have to live with that but the first time I think it's because you're young your nose is to the grindstone you get to the absolute peak of success, and it's not anything other than, wow, was that fun? I got to do it again. So it burned us out.

Starting point is 00:29:52 The real gift would have been had I learned from that mistake fully at that time. The second time I did it was another, oh my goodness gracious, 23 years later. And it was too much for some of the people in the band. Was it too much for you? What does burnout look like? I was having a really good time the second time. I just thought it was actually going swimmingly well. You know, physically I was feeling incredible.

Starting point is 00:30:21 We were having success. We were getting along. But everyone's journey's different. You know, and I thought everything was peachy and it wasn't. You know, so this I have to live with. And then you go on from there and, you know, you come to real. you're going to continue to make mistakes. It's just how you deal with them on the other side.

Starting point is 00:30:45 You know, that you can admit it, face truths. It's not your story. It's the story. You know, you're going to tell this story of tonight's interview differently than I will. Yeah. What is a grueling tool for you? Back in those days, it was 240 shows in a year. back to back another 240 shows a year later with a new album and five more top ten singles

Starting point is 00:31:13 I don't care how young you are that Superman tattoo is just a tattoo it's not real Wow it was a lot So of course it made sense that at the end of New Jersey We were exhausted But at the end of 2013 when Richie quit And you know he's quit So I should have realized

Starting point is 00:31:33 That that that was too much for some people What's the most challenging thing as someone who is not a rock and roll star who hasn't been on that kind of tour ever what's the most challenging thing about being on tour is it the travel is it the come down for some people it's it's the it's not being able to travel for some people it's the quiet of home huh it's not my that's not my issue oh that's interesting right yeah for some people more like me it was i i hate the hotel room in the club sandwich and the the grueling you know schedule of the interview and the and the blah, blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 00:32:09 You know, for others, it was the quiet of being home. It depends on who you are. Was it ever the performance for you personally? No, no. I never hated the performance. Even if I, you know, in the broken page of the book, you know, in that 2022 tour, it was painful, but I wanted to be there on. I was trying to break through to that other side.

Starting point is 00:32:37 It was like trying to break through the stone wall to see light through the other side. I thought if I kept doing it, it would get better because I had exhausted every other trick and I didn't have anyone else to, a doctor or somebody else to say, no, no, no, this ain't going to get better. Does it always feel exciting when you are going, does it not, when you're going on stage in front of thousands of people? You know, jet lag or tedium or. you know, you're cranky because your team lost. I mean, no, there's a human element. But you have to remember that the people that are in their seats,

Starting point is 00:33:17 this is the night they've been waiting for. And so you have to do your very best to go out there and be your very best, even if you're not having a great day. Not that we ever faked it, but some days, you know, your tummy hurts. You know what I mean? You're going to be out there with a tummy ache. You know, it's just what it is. So you do the best you can with what you have.

Starting point is 00:33:38 How do you feel about fame? Fame is a liar and a thief. It would be easy and understandable for many a person to have fallen victim to it. And traditionally over the years you've seen it, you know, whether it's in movies or music or, you know, people that get addicted to it, they find it to be alluring. But really, it doesn't care who you are. It can break you. I was never drawn to any of this because of that. That wasn't why I wanted to do it.

Starting point is 00:34:10 If you'd had a choice to do what you do but without the fame, without any recognition but you could still do, would you have chosen? No, no, no, no. Let me be perfectly clear. I'm good at what I do on the stage and we're very good at what we do on the stage. When I'm there, I love that resonance between me and the band and the band and the song and me and the audience. but it isn't about look at me.

Starting point is 00:34:35 It's not about, you know, I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille. No, no, no, no. You know, I really do compartmentalize each and every aspect of it. But it's not an addictive thing for me. I imagine that the grueling touring also had an impact on your family life. And one of the things that is wonderful about you is that you have this long, marriage with Dorothea, who you met at school. Tell us the story of how you met. She was sitting next to me in history class and she was the girlfriend of one of my closest

Starting point is 00:35:13 friends who had graduated and joined the Navy. And I never met her until we were in that history class and he was gone to the Navy. So this is, you know, six, eight months after he's joined and I'm there in class and I was like, oh yeah. I just fell head over heels even then. We eventually started to date and he had moved on, if you will, and I never looked back. So my home life never suffered as a result of my success and my journey, but it also has been a great benefit to me in a number of ways of support, obviously, but also because we've been through the entire roller coaster ride together, that she knows the ups, the downs, the bullshit in the Christmas

Starting point is 00:35:59 days of it all. So there's no explaining it to her. There's no me wondering who is this person that's gotten on the ride and why is the, what's the motivator for her? So all of those things have been so helpful

Starting point is 00:36:14 to me. Yeah, I'm the only guy that's been married to the same girl in the band. Past present. John Shanks has been married to Colleen And, you know, he's the producer of the band. But other than that, everybody had been married multiple times, and I've been blessed.

Starting point is 00:36:35 Why do you think it's worked? What advice would you give to someone in Barclan? Mutual admiration society. Okay. And it started there. Immense respect, always, just because I was in awe of her. She was more well-read than I was. She was more worldly than I was.

Starting point is 00:36:55 I had a drive that no one else had. We complimented each other in that way. We weren't competitive in any of that. So it was a great partnership. And we weren't jealous of each other in any way. And was she a great support when you were undergoing all of this rehabilitation? Let me tell you. I mean, she deserves extra pay for psychiatry.

Starting point is 00:37:25 and psychology, and there was dark nights of, you know, emotions and anxieties. Again, it wasn't about being out there, it was about recovering. It was the holy hell of it all. Yeah, it wasn't easy. How do you think she'd describe you in three words? You can't say John Bon Jovi. Yeah, right, thank you. You did that for me.

Starting point is 00:37:53 I don't know you'd have to ask her I really don't know you'd have to ask her how do you describe her I once said and I really loved it I said this she is a complete sentence she is a one word complete sentence

Starting point is 00:38:09 everything oh yeah you are now a father and a grandfather what has that taught you about yourself well I'll let you know more

Starting point is 00:38:22 about the babies in time because Jake and Millie adopted a beautiful baby girl three months ago and Jesse and his wife Jesse are expecting a baby any minute now, so we'll have two of them for these holidays, but they're brand new. The chapter in the book of parenting for me is crazy because although we have four kids and we're blessed that they're all healthy, the difference between them being kids under our roof and them being four adults and how different yet the same they are is sort of like mind-blowing and expands

Starting point is 00:38:58 you know how you parent and you have to learn that I'm not the boss of anything anymore and I'm not even being cute about that you're like holy shit what do you mean you have an opinion but you know you're not the boss of anything anymore that comes

Starting point is 00:39:16 with a whole different set of rules and what was it like when they were younger and you were on the road a lot They would come for periods in time. Like they'd come here. They'd always come to the UK because it was London. They'd go to Dublin. They're not going to be in Tokyo and they're not going to be in Iowa.

Starting point is 00:39:36 But they would come to a couple glamorous places for a week's vacation somewhere. They were always very aware of who and what, you know, daddy was and what he did because they were born into it. And I think there was the blessing and the curse of being my kids. He didn't know who to judge just being real friends and whose mommy wanted to get to meet me. You know, but it helped them too. You know, can't deny that it gave them opportunity. That's annoying. What?

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Starting point is 00:40:25 Bel Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. The only thing more powerful than a girl's girl, a girl with a law degree. All's Fair is the fierce new legal drama about a team of iconic women and friends created by Ryan Murphy and starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts,

Starting point is 00:40:41 Nisi Nash Betts, Tiana Taylor, Matthew Nossga, with Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close. All's Fair premieres on Hulu on Disney Plus November 4th I'd love to talk to you about your friendship with Bruce Springsteen and the moment that you felt

Starting point is 00:40:58 he was a friend rather than someone who you looked, yes, exactly, looked up to from a distance. That's a good question. I don't know. Let me think. Is that him calling right now? Yeah, I know. Spam risk.

Starting point is 00:41:11 Oh, no. Even John von Jovey gets spam calls. I do. From South River, New Jersey. Wow. When I was very young, Bruce jumped up on stage. In New Jersey, I mean, he's the king of all of the rock and roll bands that ever came out of there, right? And of course, someone I looked up to and loved his records and all that kind of good stuff. And the first time he jumped up on a stage with me was 1979. But we weren't buddies. I was singing one of his songs. I would say that through the 80s, I got a couple out of boys by the late 90s. I was still persistent, so I got a little more of this and that. Early 2000s, we became friendly, but by the last decade or so, I consider him to be like a really dear friend. And that the two of us have been through a lot.

Starting point is 00:42:12 And in truth, I mean, you know, I could say things in that kind of company, and he could say things back to me. that you can't talk to about with a lot of people. Being a boss, being a band leader, being a, you know, a guy that people know and you're going to say things publicly or, you know, so, you know, you're out there. And he's still somebody I admire greatly. So I also hold him in that kind of esteem. Have you seen the Bruce Springsteen movie with Jeremy? I sat next to him and, you know, the two, he had a screening for family and friends.

Starting point is 00:42:48 He said, you're sitting next to me. Yeah, the crazy, crazy thing about the film, it's written about a period in 1982. That's the summer I write runaway. If you've seen the film, for those who have seen it, on Sunday nights in Asbury Park in 1982, remember, this is after four albums, he's already Bruce, you know, but it's pre-born in the USA.

Starting point is 00:43:11 So he's big, but he's not to the common, common, common guy, you know, Bruce, yeah. Anyway, I'm a young kid. I just right run away. Sunday night is my night to play at the Fast Lane, which is the original band bar. The Stone Pony's where the cover bands played, jukebox music. He would go there every Sunday night. Well, imagine what that did to the audience of the original band bar.

Starting point is 00:43:39 We went from 200 to 150 to 100 to 75 to 60 to we got to go on at like 7.30 or 8 o'clock because everybody's queuing at the cover band bar knowing that he's going to show up on that same Sunday night to play with the cover band. As I'm sitting in the movie theater with him, I say, you see the crowd as your, you know, fictional character is playing? I'm in the crowd because my bar closed, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:04 because we would all jokingly go and know that you're going to play with the band. And then they're in the recording studio and they're working up the songs from Born in the USA. say, that is literally the room that I record Runaway in that summer. Wow. You know, those burgers and coax on the console would have been the coax and the burgers that I was fetching.

Starting point is 00:44:27 Huh. You see, so. It must have been so moving. Well, as I'm sitting with it, you know, we're sitting in this movie theater. I go, it's a time machine. That's what, it's a time machine. And it'd be sitting here some 43 years later, you know, and of course, his being him and me still being him.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Wow. It was cute. And does Jeremy Allen White do a good job? He does a very good job, you know, because this book that Bruce had given me a number of years ago because he was impressed by the book. He was like, he read this. You know, it's not like he would give me a book about him and go, read this book about me. But he's like, here, read this, I think you'll enjoy it.

Starting point is 00:45:06 I couldn't put it down. And then, of course, he's been approached to have movies made about him time and time again. this was the way he wanted to tell his story and not about the grandeur but about the guy and I think that Jeremy did a nice job of what the public facing stuff was who knew about the depression who knew about those other things

Starting point is 00:45:27 how could we you know we only knew him as that guy will there ever be a John Bon Jovi movie he never say never because it's not that again I'm not seeking it out I've been approached a number of times countless times. Who knows? Could there be? It depends on what the script would be.

Starting point is 00:45:48 Because you also had a very successful acting career. You could play myself. You could play yourself. But actually, that brings us on to your third failure, which did make me laugh. Because alongside the successful acting career, you also had a chance to be a fashionista. And you say that your third failure is failing to be a fashionista.

Starting point is 00:46:08 Not for me. To this day, as I'm promoting a restaurant, record and about to go back on the road. If a magazine that does all that fashion stuff and says wear these tent suits and you could be in our magazine, the answer is absolutely not. No.

Starting point is 00:46:20 But I do remember a cute story many years ago when Gianni Versace was still alive. And they did these crazy campaigns. And one was with Madonna playing poker with a bunch of dogs. And if you remember this, you know, it was a crazy campaign.

Starting point is 00:46:41 It was right after she had done like a book with her Brits and you know all these wonderful you know pictures of her and these nudes and stuff and we're in south america and i'm playing these stadiums and donatella Versace is down there and i had you know got to know them a little bit over the course of the years and been invited to the odd fashion show which i couldn't quite understand and um and bruce Weber the famous photographer is there and i said you know those pictures with with Madonna and the dogs. And he says, we want to take your picture. Come tomorrow. And I said, yeah, I want to do something crazy, good. And I got there and they said, here's his black jeans. Okay, okay. Here's

Starting point is 00:47:24 a black t-shirt. Okay, okay. He says, put them on. Okay, okay. Now, I'm waiting for something. He says, put your hands in your pockets. Click, click, click, click. There's the campaign. We're done. You're like, where are the dogs playing poker? Give me something. So the campaign comes out. Very nice pictures. Okay, Bruce, that was fun. So then Donatella comes to me again, and she says, would you like to do it again? This time with Richard Avedon, the very world famous Richard Avedon.

Starting point is 00:47:51 And I see, yes, damn it, but I want something. So I go into Avedon Studio, and now I'm fully expecting black jeans and a black t-shirt. He says, take your clothes off. I'm like, sugar. I'm the one that told them I wanted something. Now, I am standing there in the buff. Okay. And he says, wrap this blanket around your waist.

Starting point is 00:48:12 Take the pictures. Now, I am buck naked. They take the pictures. Go away. In my 30s, I was pretty buffed. I look pretty good. Pictures come out, great. Campaign goes out.

Starting point is 00:48:26 I'm cool with it. I've learned my lesson. Shut up. Don't say things like this ever again. I run into Elton John. Elton's first comment to me was, I have the outtakes. Amazing. Amazing.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Jesus Christ. Because you're buck naked with a blanket wrapped around. He goes, I have the auntie. Son of a bitch. Only Elton can get away with that. Now is the end of it. I have no desire. I don't get fashion.

Starting point is 00:49:00 I don't care for fashion. I don't want to know from fashion. I did love Johnny Versace. I wanted to do something like that with them for them. But that was the end of it. Would you say that you now have a uniform? Yes, I call it the uniform. Okay, so what is it?

Starting point is 00:49:15 These same dirty jeans that can walk to the laundry once a month, a black t-shirt, and a pair of white sneakers usually, which I've been chastised over. They call them dad sneakers now, which really bum me out. And a leather jacket. That is my uniform. All Saints T-shirts, framed jeans, these white shoes that used to be that golden goose.

Starting point is 00:49:38 But now I'm too cheap to pay for them in this leather jacket. I feel like they would send you some, John. If you can put it out there. Maybe they might. They should. Who was chastising you about the white shoes? Like kind of girls that get your clothes at photo sessions. They're like, those are dad sneakers.

Starting point is 00:49:54 You can't wear them anymore. Now, did I hear you say you wash your jeans once a month? Yeah. Okay, this is interesting. Because the regularity with which one washes denim is a very personal thing. but also it has a real impact on the way you wear your clothes, I think. And I would err on the side of once a month, too. Oh, thank you.

Starting point is 00:50:17 Yeah. I thought I was about to be chastised for that. No. Well, it's probably not once a month, but it's certainly once every two weeks for sure. I mean, if you're performing in them, maybe. Not that, but, you know, because you wash them, you dry and they have a different fit. Right. And they get broken in and they're just right until the point where they're a little too baggy and then they got to go.

Starting point is 00:50:37 you know, or there's Cheetos being wiped on them too many times. When you look back at those sort of early forays into being a fashionista and you see those photos of yourself, how do you feel now, looking back on them, how do you feel about aging? Well, I'm fine with it. I'm not going to ever get work done and my hair is gray and at least I still have all my hair. I haven't had any surgeries, operations, Botox injections, eye jobs or lip jobs or whatever to hell else you do these days. I'm not interested in any of that, nor would I do it. I had to come to terms with having gray hair, but I was, when I was starting to come

Starting point is 00:51:19 to that age and they would put hair color in, I hated that. So I just said screw it, like 12, 13 years ago. I wouldn't do that. And so I had to come to terms with aging. You know, I just, you know, I look at my pictures of me now. I'm not happy about it. I look at 30, 40, 50, and I go, yeah, I'd rather look like that, but I don't. You look great.

Starting point is 00:51:43 Thanks, but I'm 63 years old, you know. And what do you think is the greatest gift that aging has given you? Oh, wisdom. These next couple years can be great if I'm physically right because of the wisdom. The roller coaster ride of getting punched in the face. forces you to take stock in any and everything. And health, of course, is number one on the list. You can always make a buck.

Starting point is 00:52:16 You can always write another song. But your health is the key to the universe. This podcast is obviously all about failure and what we learn from it. But I wonder if I could finish by asking you, John Bondrovy, what you now consider to be success? It's not measured in terms of any numbers. Numbers don't mean it. They're not relevant.

Starting point is 00:52:38 Relationships, family, legacy. I think, and not necessarily in that order. Family obviously would be first, keeping my family sane and together would be number one. Friends are few and far between, so when you do have that five, you can count on. I have a few more than five because I do count this band. And then the legacy, which is not only the music, but the kids and what they'll do and what they've learned. And then that ripple. That matters.

Starting point is 00:53:16 John Bon Jovi, thank you so much for coming on How to Fail. I appreciate this. Thank you. It was fun. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Jon Bon Jovi - Fame is a liar and a thief

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