How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Katie Price - ‘Everything bad that’s ever happened to me is because of men’

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

TW: this episode contains discussion of sexual assault and suicide. In the 90s you might have known Katie Price as ‘Jordan’ - featured on page three, known for her succession of plastic surgeries and her complicated personal life. But, in reality, she is so much more than the cartoon character the media created for her. Today, Katie is a mother of five and her disabled son, Harvey, is - she tells me - the only person who ‘never judges’ her. Her life has been scarred by trauma and she has survived horrendous, and repeated, sexual abuse. And yet she refuses to let these experiences define her. The woman I met was warm, down-to-earth, funny and smart. I felt I could ask her anything and that she’d tell me the truth without thinking. She joins me to talk about her failed marriages, her failure to look after her mental health and her failure to be taken seriously as a singer. I’m so grateful to Katie for her extraordinary honesty. It meant that this wasn’t always an easy chat, but it was a conversation that left me in awe of her resilience and courage. As always, I’d LOVE to hear about your failures. Every week, my guest and I choose a selection to read out and answer on our special subscription offering, Failing with Friends. We’ll endeavour to give you advice, wisdom, some laughs and much, much more. Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly Studio Engineer: Josh Gibbs Mix Engineer: Josh Gibbs Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamx. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Hello there, it's Elizabeth Day and I just wanted to give you a heads up that in this episode we do talk about PTSD, we talk about sexual assault and suicide. So if for whatever reason you feel like giving this one a miss, we completely understand. And if you're staying with us, I hope that you get a lot out of this truly extraordinary interview. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This podcast puts failure in the spotlight and asks us what we learn from the moments in life that don't go according to plan.

Because I firmly believe that most failure can teach us something if we let it. Every week I talk to a new guest about the times they failed and how their perspective on life and what success really means was shaped along the way. Just before we get to my chat with Katie Price, please do join me after this episode on Failing With Friends, my subscriber series where we continue our conversation and we take a look at your failures or questions with my fabulous guest. This week, Katie and I go through correspondence about early menopause, career failure, and what our favourite podcasts are, not including our own. And I'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to get in touch, follow the link in the podcast notes. Get Failing With

Friends episodes every week and all episodes of How To Fail ad free. Just visit the How To Fail show page on Apple Podcasts and click start free at the top of the page to begin your free trial. There are certain celebrities who become so embedded in popular culture that almost everyone has an opinion on them. Katie Price is one such celebrity, catapulted into public consciousness in the late 90s as Jordan, a surgically enhanced page three glamour model who ended up gracing the cover of American Playboy. She went on to appear in several reality TV shows, including I'm a Celebrity, Celebrity Big Brother, which she won in 2015, and several of her own series.

In some ways, it's almost easier to list what she hasn't done rather than what she has. In 2001, Price stood unsuccessfully as an independent candidate in the general election. Five years later, she was the runner-up in the search for the UK's entry for Eurovision. She's released six autobiographies, 11 novels, and was in the top 100 best-selling authors of all time between 2000 and 2009. In 2018, following a barrage of online abuse focusing on her disabled son Harvey, Price became a parliamentary campaigner to make online abuse a criminal offence. And yet her successes have always seemed to be slightly overshadowed by the media attention on her public failures. But I've always been struck by Price's honesty and heart, her ability to own up to mistakes and her willingness to keep on trying. As she put it in one of her memoirs,

I'm so loud as if I know what I'm on about, but deep inside, I'm so insecure, just a little girl. Katie Price, welcome to How to Fail. Oh, I love it. Can I just say something? Listening to you say that, it's quite exhausting. I've done so much. Oh, by the way, thanks for having me. Thank you for coming. Thanks. Because you've had so many lives and you're still only 45. We're the same age. And I was like, wow.

Are you? And I followed your career from day one, by the way. I watched you on all the shows, think you're great. And I didn't even realise half of this stuff. Are you 1978 as well? Yes. Are you a Gemini? No, but I love that you think I am. I'm married to a gemini i'm a scorpio are you i'm a good scorpio

but i want to go back to that little girl that we ended the intro on that idea of being an insecure little girl let's talk about her when was the first time you remember feeling insecure i've now been diagnosed not that I believe in labels, but it makes sense. I've got severe ADHD and it would make sense now because I've made the wrong choices, done the wrong things when really I'm just innocent, gullible, but yet there's that side of me where I just can't help to say something or do something and do something. And we've worked out in my brain brain it's got to be my ADHD. I look like I'm out there, out there,

when really I love nothing better than to be at home, cook, watch telly, be cosy, cup of tea, slippers, no make-up. Yet if you judge me by the media, it's like a character they've made. So being a young girl, I was always into horses, never into boys. It was always me getting on my mountain bike. I tied my radio to the handlebars and used to cycle to my horse spend all weekend there after school all there till it got dark so my mum picked me up or unless I rode the bike that was all my life and then I did swimming gymnastics that was my life and then family that was it and you're still very into

horses so one of the shows that I watched about you was you doing dressage love it and you're still very into horses so one of the shows that I watched about you was you doing dressage love it which you're incredibly good at and it's a very controlled graceful sport and I wonder if there's something about the control that appeals to you because from an outside perspective sometimes it feels like a lot of your life might be out of control yeah I do show jumping as well which is completely different but that's what I mean you never hear about the charity sides I do you never hear about me in my home life if anything you hear the opposite oh she shouldn't have animals she shouldn't have this I don't know where they get all this stuff from so like back in the 90s when

I started the media was so different what it now. I would call it more like a monopoly game. It's a game. If you want to enter this industry, there's no textbook for it. So then I learned if you give the press what they want, they give you something back. And I feel today, it's not like it was then 20 odd years ago, it's more mental abuse. And I've said it before, I do not care if the media never writes about me or puts a picture of me in the paper again because all they do is try and knock me down. And I just feel they think I'm a product, not a person. I think they think of you as a cartoon character.

Yeah, and it ricochets off to my children my family my friends it's exhausting now if I do anything good they never write about it they just want to pick pick and they knew I had a breakdown they knew I went into the priory and even when I was in the private they were still writing about it not giving giving me a break. And I just think some of these journalists these days have a lot to answer. It might be their job. But turn it around because sometimes if there's ever a story and I put up on Instagram and put their name in it and what paper, they phone us up to take it down. But it's like, well, hang on, why is it all right for you to write a story that you don't check? And even if you do and we say no comment or it's not true, you still write it anyway.

And I just miss that days. It was fun. But I don't understand why they want to keep putting me down because you've got social media now and I do my TV programs. Well, I've got a voice which probably goes out to more people than what they sell in their newspapers and magazines now. And I think an unscrupulous journalist's answer to that would be, well, she wanted to be famous, which I'm not standing behind at all as an excuse. But my question to you is, do you regret being famous now? Do not hate that word, because I still don't think I am. Don't you? No. Well, it's amazing. We were talking beforehand. You have turned up on your own. There is no entourage. It's you. You recognise the, it's amazing. We were talking beforehand. You have turned up on your own. There is no entourage.

It's you. You recognise the cameraman from a job that you've been doing. You're so real. And yet so many people don't think of you like that, maybe because of the plastic surgery, maybe because of the cartoon character that the media has created. But that's fascinating that you don't think of yourself as famous. No, I hate that word.

It's embarrassing. I get embarrassed. Famous to me is someone who's like a Michael Jackson who's known worldwide. But people have to remember, I started this when I was 15, 16. Then I got on Patriots, 17, I think it was. So I do not know any different. I didn't enter this world thinking, oh, I'm still going to be here when I'm 45. Because normally, it's like a two-year or a year shelf. It's like with pop bands, girl bands, or people who release singles. I've seen so many bands, pop people, presenters, models, come and go all through my

time. And I'm like, why am I still here and not them? Why? And I still can't answer that now. And people say, yeah, you're good at the press. I'm like, but it's my life. It's like a drama series, my life. And I think because it is real, a lot of people can relate and think, bloody hell, she's been through that. And I talk about things. So I think people can relate that way.

I'm not manufactured. I've made wrong choices. But that's because I felt that's what I had to do at the time the worst thing about social media is you put stuff up because you're angry or you want to have a go back at someone but I've realized through therapy because I haven't done it now for over a year it's taken me that long that actually just sit back before you retaliate because when you retaliate it then encourages media encourages other people just say nothing which is so hard for me to have learned to have done so instead I communicate with my support group around me air it to them and say oh I want to put this up like they're like Kate no and I've learned to listen there's so, I want to put this up. They're like, Kate, no. And I've learned to listen.

There's so much I want to get into. And we'll start with your failures quite soon because they're really profound. You say that you're not manufactured, which is, I completely understand. You're so real. Yeah. And yet people are obsessed with your historic surgical interventions.

Do you know what? So when my husband's like, oh, I want this done, it's like going shopping for me, which is so bad. But I could go further than what I've done. Sometimes I do look in the mirror and think, oh, are people looking because you look plastic or are they looking because you look good? There's nothing worse than when these young girls now,

and I will say it, in their early 20s, who are all getting fillers, all getting lips, all getting the boobs. I'm not a quip-a-quip, but I didn't start doing my face until I was in my 40s. Yes, I had a boob job, but I didn't even have fillers. I didn't have Botox until I was like 27, 28. Lips, I tried when they didn't know and I looked like a duck, but then I just relaxed on it all the girls look the same now and I think what are they going to look like then when they're my age like I say to my kids because they're like oh mom you're not doing surgery again here and I'm like oh it's all right

they're so used to I think I've put them off for life but people don't realize when you have surgery and stuff you only see before and after you don't see in between when you've had it. Help the pain and the cleaning, the stitches out and the bed rest, this, that. So I'd love to educate people. It's damaging to your body. I've had so many anesthetics. I know I still choose to do it, but like I say, I'm older now. I didn't do it all in my 20s. I think everyone looks like aliens these days.

Have you ever felt beautiful? No, I don't think I have now I never have no way that's embarrassing as well when you say that do you think that's part of the reason why you did it why you did a lot of stuff to yourself because you wanted to feel better do you know I'd love it if you could get in my brain but I don't think I'm beautiful or pretty but I know when I do a photo shoot and look at it then I think oh yeah I know't think I'm beautiful or pretty, but I know when I do a photo shoot and look at it, then I think, oh, yeah, I know. I think I'm photogenic. Do you ever watch yourself back? So I'm a celebrity, for instance.

I had two moles on my face. You look so beautiful. I did. You did. Ugly. I hate even looking at them. And then Princess goes to me, Mum Mum I look like you when you're young I went no you are beautiful Princess

I wasn't like you and then she gets pictures together she goes look I do look like you I went I just don't see it the curly hair yeah but I've never thought it I don't know why Does it make a difference if other people say

but you are phenomenally good looking No because I get embarrassed because I don't think they're like I won't do it No but do you now you've seen me in real life I'm not am I oh yes you are oh my gosh you are no that makes me so sad that you can't see yourself yeah no I I want to ask you about Junior and Princess because it must be kind of amazing seeing how your parents met like there's a there's a there's a no I say that to them and

now they're old enough we had this conversation yesterday their dad is Peter Andre who you met on I'm a Celebrity yes when I did my podcast yesterday because I do one with my sister if no one knows called the Katie Price show yeah get it in there um yeah I had to just do that but the reason why I say that is because yesterday because my house is chaos so I had all the kids in the kitchen I'm like kids I'm doing my podcast because I didn't want to go in another room because if I want to sit on my sofa, I'll sit on my sofa. So obviously my mum's there, Princess is there, and we're talking about reality shows and stuff and what ones I think the kids would do. So if Princess didn't have a boyfriend, she would love to do Love Island

or The Jungle. And it's funny because in our kitchen we like do the auditions if you walk in what you're doing we just have such hilarious and I can see her posing how I pose she's got it off me and then like junior and princess either I think they'd be good to go in the jungle together or separately and if the arm of celebrity never put them in the jungle I think that is the wrong move because I think they're the only kids that have ever come from the show and it'd just be iconic to have our kids in it. And I said to Princess,

if you did, you'd go in the braids and all that. I love that idea. Don't you think it would be good? Yes, it'd be great. But do they watch back that series of Arm of Celebrity and see your love affair start? No. And Princess, it was only about four months ago she didn't even know that me and Pete done an album together. Oh well we're

going to get on to your singing so let's save that but before we do before we get into your failures I wanted to ask you about being a mum. I love it. Well I was about to say I think you sound like an amazing parent and I wonder what do you think it's taught you especially being mum to Harvey I've always been a caring type like with my horse I'd spend hours brushing it if I saw a dead bird I'd bring it in try and get it alive always wanted I just always wanted animals love babies when my sister was born I was so excited because I wanted to change the nappy feeder wrapping the blanket and it's like I had Harvey. I took a chance.

It was sort of starting. My career was starting to take off. And then obviously I got pregnant. And I did try and abort him three times. I know that sounds really bad, but that was my choice. I turned up three times. And then I sat there waiting. I thought, I can't do this.

And then walked out three times and ended up keeping him because I just couldn't do it because I thought, why am I actually getting rid of him? For what reason? But I'm doing it for my career. That's selfish because I shouldn't have put myself in that situation. And then I thought, I've got to support it. I've never taken a penny off his dad ever, ever, ever.

And his real dad doesn't want to see him either, which is a shame, but the door is always open. So I sort of, me being me, thought, you know what, I'm going to do it. And I did. And I never knew that I had a perfect pregnancy. Well, he was three, nearly three weeks late. He didn't want to come out. He was quite comfy in there. And then obviously when he was born, I found out six weeks later that he was blind and then from then well now he's got it's called SOD septic optic dysplasia he's cortisol deficient ADHD opposite deficit disorder Prader-Willi's behavior problems tick disorder and obesity

so he has all these complex needs oh did I challenging behaviour? He's got such a list of things wrong with him. But he's perfect to me and I wouldn't change him for anything. And I think the bond we have is amazing. He doesn't judge me. He doesn't know what blackmail, hate is, worry is. All he worries about is when he's next seeing me, cuddles, kisses. That is it. And I love him so much.

And I'm not so much worried about his eyes. It's his behavior. He's very challenging. But I know how to stop him just like that. No one else will. I know noises to make. It's like we're so in tune. We've got our own language going on. And it's very rare to see that. Although my other kids, we brought him up the same they all have different needs they need from me does that make sense of course yeah but half a year is challenging but I wouldn't change him for anything well it sounds like he's the only totally non-judgmental person in your life non-judgmental no dad involved the ones who have got dads as a nightmare in my life, nightmares, and I have therapy to deal with exes.

Thank you so much for sharing that. Sorry, I'll spoil it. I can talk and talk, mate. You're the ideal guest. I'm loving it. Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest? This is a time of great foreboding. These words supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago.

These words supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago. These words, supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago, set in motion a chain of gruesome events and sparked cult-like devotion across the world. I'm Matt Lewis. Join us as we unwrap the enigma and get to the heart of what really happened to Thomas Beckett by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit. Hi, I'm Matt Lewis, historian and host of a new chapter of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit. Join me and world-leading experts every week as we explore the incredible real-life history that inspires the locations, the characters, and the storylines

of Assassin's Creed. Listen and follow Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get into your failures. God, how many? Where are we starting? You've only got, well, you've got three that you've chosen for the purposes of today. Yeah, you have to remind me of them. Yes. Your first failure is marriages, but more specifically choices in partners and how that's impacted you. So here we go.

From when I was young, and this is where it all makes sense with the marriages. When I was young, it was in my first book, I got raped in a park when I was seven. That was my first incident with a man. Then a man tried to abduct me into a car and then I worked with a photographer who I thought was legit and so did my mum and that and he used to take pictures of me but then the police knocked on our door and said about this guy he had 12 different names 12 different bank accounts and he was obsessed with me so say like I was only like 13 and I'd stick my tongue out at the camera and I thought it was a fun he'd look at it a different way and he was obsessed with me. So say I was only like 13 and I'd stick my tongue out at the camera

and I thought it was fun, he'd look at it a different way. And he used to drug girls with this pineapple milkshake, but I didn't like it so I never took it. And I remember one day he had a woman with him and he wanted me to have nothing on, have a wet shirt over it. And I said, oh no, I felt really uncomfortable. And I was like, oh no, it's too cold. They're like, oh no, we've put warm water on it.

And I'm thinking, mum, mum nan hurry up and come back and then it was about a week or so after that we had child protection over about this guy so my start with men hasn't really been that good and then my first boyfriend used to beat me up and he used to go out and come home when he liked the next one used to cut my clothes up and my mum would have to pick me up when I was naked in the street I'd have to go to a telephone box then the next one started cheating on me so if you think my first relations weren't really healthy relationships and then you start thinking to yourself, you're insecure, why are they doing this, doing that, and then you become needy, vulnerable, gullible, because you think the next guy that's going to come along,

oh, yeah, they're saying the right thing, oh, they really love me, love me, love me, and then you get insecure, and then you get jealous, and that ends up being toxic. So if men have not been in my life, I wouldn't be in the bankruptcy things that I've been in. I wouldn't be tormented in my brain how I have been, mentally abused like I have been. It's all to do with men. And then I thought, is that why I ended up doing modeling? Because it's like, you can look at me in a magazine but you can't touch me I don't know if it's associated with it but I have therapy all because of men first of all I want to say it's exhausting I am so sorry that you have gone through that that

is yeah traumatic doesn't cover it is all traumatic I want to go back. And I understand that a symptom of PTSD, which you live with, is speaking about deeply difficult things in a detached way that can protect you. And it's not normal and healthy to do that, though. But also, I want you to tell me if any of my questions are causing you any hurt or upset. You'll probably see one more action if I my reaction okay but I'm happy to answer them no I'm absolutely fine I see a therapist every two weeks and like you'd probably know I've been in the private you'll ask me about that but your communication and talking about things is the best way forward and I never knew how to do that before and I'd keep it in which would

make things ruminate in my brain and be worse and worse. But I do have to say all my, because I was in there for severe traumatic rehabilitation of PTSD. It's all caused by men. Can I ask you about that assault in a park when you were seven? Because that sounds totally terrifying. Was it a stranger? No, it's never, ever bothered me until I did the Piers Morgan show and I cried about it on his show.

You know, he does life stories. Yes, yeah. And I remember going, why am I crying about this? It's never even bothered me. It hasn't stopped me doing anything. But obviously somewhere in my brain it has. And when he asked me and it obviously all came forward and I was embarrassed.

I cried about it because it's never, it's not like something I think about all the time, but obviously I know it's happened. I don't know if this is a skill or a defence mechanism, that whatever trauma I've had in life, I always say there's no point sitting in a corner crying about it. Get up and get on with it because if you don't help yourself, no one else will. Did it scare you at the time when you were seven did you tell anyone about

it yeah because my mum she was um having a cup of tea at the um they had like a cafe so i remember all the police come in they took all my knickers and all of that to look at it all i told i can remember what the man looked like now, but yeah, they never found him. But I can remember it as clear as day. How do you feel now talking about it? See, I'm quite comfortable talking about it. And it's weird because when I did SAS,

even though I didn't last long on there, they said... This is Who Does With, the celebrity SAS TV show. They said mentally I was one of the strongest people they've ever had on it, but obviously I didn't really train properly. But anyway, and the way I was talking about how I've been held at gunpoint, kidnap threats and all of these serious ones, how matter-of-fact I'm about talking about them as if like, oh, yeah, like I bought a pair of shoes.

Oh, yeah, I was held at gunpoint. It's just the way I say it. It's not normal reaction. So through therapy, they've taught me about self-validation, mindfulness, assertiveness, the fact now I can sit here now and say I used to want a man because I needed a man. Now I don't need a man. If I want a man, it's because I want them. Yes, you're not codependent. And there there's a massive difference I know my self-worth I know what I've got to offer and boundaries is another thing I've

learned I've never had boundaries in any relationships and I think that's important for example why should a man think they can go through my phone why should a man have my passwords to everything because if that trust isn't there, then there you go, that's a boundary crossed. You shouldn't be made to feel like that. Coming to my workspace with me all the time, that is not normal. Why would someone want to stop me earning money to work? Because they might think I might bump into an ex or they might not like the conversation. I do have a pass and I probably will bump into an ex. they might not like the conversation I do have a pass and I probably will bump into an ex if people talk about me oh I loved you and Pete together or I loved your song

then it causes an argument for me when they walk away and I'm like but it's not my fault I have got a pass and people like love that song like a whole new world so whenever I've had a drink and I want to do karaoke I want to sing a whole new world you know and then that would cause trauma but it's not because I'm thinking of Pete I love Whitney Houston that's been all my weddings but it sounds to me as though a lot of your exes have sought to control you because they're scared of something and potentially what they might have been fearful of is your power, your sexual power. It's all of that. They know if they go out of me, I get attention.

But I don't walk in a place looking for it. That's the difference. If anything, I'd wear a tracksuit out for dinner and just have my hair in a ponytail, no makeup. I'm not interested with anyone looking at me. But obviously people have grown up with me, so they want to ask for pictures or this and that. And I'm not rude, but it does bug the person I'm with. I think what they can't get their head around is I do these shows, I get invited to all these things, but then I just go home

and I'm normal with my friends, normal, just no makeup. Do you know what I mean? Just normal. They don't know which one they want almost. And it's like I don't think it matches, because they think that when they're going to go to my house, I'm glamorous at home, champagne, this, that, and it's nothing like that.

Have you ever had a same-sex relationship? Never, no. I have done the opposite sex in the Playboy Mansion. When I lived there. Same-sex or the opposite sex? Oh, what do you mean? Wait, have you ever been in a gay relationship? Yeah.

No, much about when I've been pissed when I was younger. But not on my own with a girl, no, because to me that would be on the other way. Because I also know that you... But I can appreciate if a girl's pretty. And if I ever was going to go for a girl, they would have to look like a really pretty boy. Okay.

Does that make sense sense it makes total sense i'm i'm interested in the idea of friendship are you trying to turn me gay basically this is all an elaborate ruse casey oh i love that for you and me are you gay or straight i'm straight oh there you go have you ever thought of it never I have I think I have sort of admiration crushes on women um yeah I've never had a gay experience no no I love it I love it but I was speaking to someone yesterday who has had a gay relationship and she said one of the most amazing things about it is that she feels she was in a romantic relationship with her best friend and so and when they broke up they also had to break up their best friendship.

It's funny you say that. So a girl, Sally, who was my birthing partner with Harvey, who I used to go out, she used to do my makeup for years and we lived together. She lives away now. I always used to say to her, and she always used to say to me, well, you say, if only you was a man, you'd be my perfect partner. We'd never done anything together because we had so much fun

together done absolute everything together you would think we was in a relationship because we were inseparable the only thing we didn't do is have sex yeah I'm interested that you have chosen this as one of your failures because it sounds to me like you have survived a lot of really terrible relationships and individuals who made awful choices and treated you really badly so it's really their failure and not yours but does it feel make you feel like it's my fault right that's the trouble they turn it around and then sometimes you think am I mentally going wrong what I don't see what they're saying I haven't done nothing wrong but they make me feel like I have and then I'm like what I'm wrong because I want to go to work I'm wrong because

I'm independent I'm wrong because I don't need a father figure I'm wrong because I want to organize things I'm wrong I would like a man to have swept me off my feet or just want me for me not what you think you can get like I've never ever ever had a man take me shopping never had a man say right I've put to table for us to go dinner get dressed up or never had a man say look we're going to go away for a weekend I'm treating you I don't know what I would do if that did happen I just couldn't bear it makes me cringe because I'm so used to just paying for everything I don't know what it's like the other way around I'm sure you've spoken about this in therapy and been asked this before how much do you think it's related to your biological dad leaving when I think everyone

asks this and you know it is true to an extent so I can't remember my dad not being there but when I asked my mum you get two types of parents you can get a parent well not two there's loads different types are you the kind of parent that, say, if you had homework or anything and you went home to show them, would they be like, oh, yeah, I'll have a look later, later? Or would you be the parent to say, oh, show me your work? That even can affect you when you're older. Or if you've got a swimming lesson or a horse riding lesson or something,

were they there to watch or did they drop you off? Were they there at your school assembly they drop you off? Were they there at your school assembly? So if you look back as a kid yourself and you know you have a school assembly and you know your mum's like, you get excited. So imagine if you didn't see your parent there, you'd be a bit like, oh, wish mine would turn up. So my real dad never came to anything. And my mum said he was always away working and maybe on a Sunday he'd come and cuddle me or whatever but I can't remember that so they call it abandonment so deep down my issues always been men and that's obviously because my dad wasn't there even though my mum remarried and I look at my dad I call him Paul

because I do still see my real dad every now and again and he's a laugh and all of that like there's so many a likeness with us but if I had anything I would go to him not my real dad but yeah I used to look at kids if I went to their house their mums and dads were there cooking they'd get cuddles from their dads you do look at and think oh I wish mine was like that even though I had the dad there I know it wasn't the completeness and I think I've always wanted to create my own complete fairy tale family and I think that's where it comes from but I've just gone quick finding the wrong man whereas now I would not do that I was about to ask do you still want to create the fairy tale family unit do you know what I'm absolutely exhausted with relationships I'm exhausted with the marriages. Although the first one,

Pete, I'd like to say it was real. If you knew what I knew now, if people want to know, they can read my mum's book because I've been gagged. You'll read that and you'll see. But everything we did was on TV magazines because we had the same management. To me, that's not real marriage. The second ones I just think were rehearsals. They were just rebounds. And I know that's awful to say, but they were. I just rushed them because I just wanted that married life back,

living with someone, having the life with the kids, because that's what I had with Pete. And then relationships I've had after, they just end up being the same. So now in therapy, we talk about what are the patterns that go on. I've had domestic abuse. I've had after, it's just, they just end up being the same. So now in therapy, we talk about what are the patterns that go on? You know, I've had domestic abuse, I've had it all. So now I'm so exhausted with relationships that the next time I go out with someone, they have to have the qualities in it, boundaries in it, or someone, red flags, all of this. And it it does scare me but might you conceive of a future where you're just not ever in a relationship again and maybe you have your needs fulfilled in a different way I couldn't I've never had a one-night stand in my life that is my assignment

to you I want you to go out I can't I can't I didn't lose my virginity to my 16th birthday because my mum said you never do that so I didn't and my virginity to my 16th birthday because my mum said, you never do that. So I didn't. The thing is, it's interesting. Back in the Jordan days, there's a lot of people, only the older generation know who Jordan is. Because when I do TikTok and that, they're like, it's Katie Price or she looks like Jordan, whatever.

Some of them have no idea of an amazing career I had being Jordan. And I didn't change my name from Jordan to Katie it was the media that changed it it was either one week Jordan's out partying when I become a mum suddenly I was now Katie Price not Jordan where I'm the same person I only changed my name because I did page three and it can stop you doing works we just come up the name Jordan just like that so I always looked when I went out of my friends the I looked like the slag right I looked like a hooker basically I looked like trash little outfits little skirts boobs out but that was my insecurity I felt that's what men wanted to see but now when

I look back it gives off a wrong impression that's not waifu material, is it? That's just a shag material in my eyes. It sounds to me like you need to be seen for who you really are. But now you need someone to see you as you really are without the madness of the culture of celebrity around you. But that was the thing. So the one night stand thing, I could easily talk to a guy all night and then say, I'm not a prick teaser that's refreshing yeah let's move on to your second failure which is we've already

touched upon quite extensively but it's mental health oh my god specifically the fact that you have found it very hard historically to open up because that felt like a failure to admit that you weren't coping when you're in that dark place you just want to die you don't want to be here you just don't it doesn't matter what anyone says until you've been in that situation it's really hard to tell someone how you feel because you just think everything is noise black there's just no help with anything you just feel shit you sleep you don't communicate with anyone, you just don't want to be here. That's how bad I was.

I could sit and talk about it now, but at the time, it was horrific. That's how bad I felt. Especially because, sorry to interrupt, but because you love being a mum so much. But that's how bad, that's how ill, I was ill. That's the only way. Because I just couldn't cope with the noise from everyone anymore. Being judged, it was like I'm drowning.

And then obviously I've had three massive kidnap threats where they wanted to kill me. I remember my kids had to go to school. It was Scotland Yard for three months, taking my kids to school. Was this after South Africa? No, that was before then. South Africa, Junior, Princess and me and the film crew, and it was my best friend.

He still can't see in his eye now because he was knocked out in the car and blood everywhere because they took the keys. They're holding guns at us. And I was on the front seat, and obviously the guy was doing what he was doing to me while the kids was on the front seat. And obviously, the guy was doing what he was doing to me while the kids were on the back seat, inappropriately touching me. I thought we were all going to die. And then it's like a horror film. I'm getting in the front seat, trying to find the keys to drive off, but they had nicked the keys. Then they come back, so I wouldn't open

the door. Then I had a pillow, pull it over my head because I thought they were going to shoot us. So I was protecting the kids. It was horrific horrific and princess till she had to have therapy till this day she doesn't like it dark going out at night in the cars and stuff do you do I exhaust you no not at all I have got good stories to tell as well you do me the greatest honor by sharing this thank you you. Absolute honour. If anyone can ever learn from anything I say, it's like real. Doesn't matter what dark place you're in. I've been there thinking that I'm never going to get out of it.

You then don't reply to bills. You don't pay things. You don't do that. And before you know it, everything's on top of you. And you think, how am I going to get out of this? I can't.

It's noise. It's noise. It's noise. I can't cope up. But you can. Not everything's as bad. and you think how am I going to get out of this I can't it's noise it's noise it's noise I can't cope up but you can not everything's as bad no one knows the future you can get you just got to communicate so if there's anyone out there who are in a dark place or they think they are and they're worried about a bill or something like this just communicate with them people and tell them how you're feeling what's going on it's better to do that than ignore

it's when you ignore and don't communicate is when everything comes crashing down but I've had to learn the hard way to do it I think that's great advice Peyton it's happening we're finally being recognized for being very online it's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo. All the time.

So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions. If you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second. Then join me, Hunter Harris. And me, Peyton Dix, the host of Wondery's newest podcast, Let Me Say This. As beacons of truth and connoisseurs of mess, we are scouring the depths of the internet so you don't have to. We're obviously talking about the biggest gossip and celebrity news. Like it's not a question of if Drake got his body done, but when. You are so messy for that, but we will be giving you the B-sides. Don't you worry. The deep cuts, the niche, the obscure.

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every Friday wherever you get your podcasts. Your final failure is... Which one is this i'm exhausted don't worry i think it's slightly more upbeat it's your singing career right this is so interesting tell me what you want first because i'm going to tell you about my manifest and what's happening amazing because i vividly remember you trying out to be the uk eurovision entrance awful that's one of my biggest regrets with you and Peter Andre and you were in this like pink cat suit

so that was Eurovision yeah what did I say did I say Eurovision me and Pete done an album of cover love songs and we was on Children in Need and we sang at

the Royal Variety which is another thing when I watched Britain's Got Talent sorry so Whole New World was not Eurovision no that was a totally

different thing okay so let's go back to Eurovision where you were wearing this pink cat suit I was seven months pregnant I tried to hide it with the gems and why did you try and hide it because I wouldn't have won it if they knew I was pregnant and they found out that week when I was doing promotion that I was pregnant which is why Javine won by one percent and the only reason I did Eurovision is because I was promised a Sony deal Sony album

deal well you're in the right building now. This is Sony. But do you think you have encountered sexism during your career? Because that for me sounds like a massive example of sexism. Yes, because I'm a true survivor. Look how many kids I've had. It hasn't stopped me. But going back to the music thing really quick, you know, I keep going on about manifesting I've done two pantos at Christmas my summer is literally nearly fully booked I have got so many gigs like Party in the Park and Gay Prides to do half hour sets singing six songs six of my own songs and I'm going to record six club classic songs and I'm touring it.

I'm so proud of you. No, who would ever have thought they'd slag me off. And now my diary is fully booked with me singing live sets for half an hour. And do you love singing? I can't dance, but I absolutely love it. Do you think you're good at it? And I love doing it live. I just love ballads.

I like powerful stuff. If it's the right song, I can sing it. And I love doing it live. I just love ballads. I like powerful stuff. Now this thing, if it's the right song, I can sing it. Now the covers I'm going to do, obviously I'm going to do the cover songs, how I know to sing. So it's my versions of it. I absolutely love it. Now, since I broke my feet, I couldn't dance even if I wanted to dance, because I've had life changing injuries, but I couldn't dance anyway, so that's that. How hurtful was it when you were mocked for that album and for the Eurovision performance? I think if there's anyone out there, listen to the album

and tell me if you say I can't sing because I think I can sing. If you listen, I've done it, you've probably never heard it. You'll listen to it now. Me and Pete's A whole new world album. Yeah. I sound really young when I sing, but you can't say

I can't sing. I hit all the notes and stuff. But why I want to do these shows as well is because I love singing live. And when you sing it live, no one can slag you off because, first of all,

I'm up there singing, doing something I enjoy. i don't care what anyone says i'm sick to death of having people to think they can influence what i do if i want some happiness in my life i'll do what i want to do and i've been manifesting singing and for some reason i'm being bombarded to sing these half-hour sets in England Ireland Scotland and Wales and I've got some gigs in Dubai coming up forget a whole new world you've got a whole new career yes and this is this is actually true so all my Jordan days I it was amazing what didn't I do and now I think I've done all the private stuff deep depression the bankruptcy noise and all of

this even though it's a weird bankruptcy, and I think that word bankruptcy, it can mean all different things. And my house is safe. They always say my house is going to go. No, no one could take my house. My house is safe. It's all to do with exes, the bankruptcy. But so I've been through all of that. And now I'm like, know what I want in a man, know what I want in a career. I pick and choose what work I want to do because I want to be happy, not be tired. I don't have a manager. I don't want to be told my manager, do this, do that, say this, do that. I am now being me because I don't want to be in that exhausted situation again. want to be in that exhausted situation again all these doors are opening again it's as if I've just started my career again from day one podcasts tv stuff pick and choose what documentaries I want to do and the channels love working with me the kids are older and it's I want more kids it's like now it's my choice no one's treating me as a product. I'm a person. If you want more kids, would you do

it on your own? I have to check my eggs because I'm old and I probably have to do IVF. I've done IVF before twice and it failed. And it's really hard to go for IVF. But my last two kids were so premature that I would never carry full term either. I've had four cesareans. I can carry again because I've been tested. But I don't know if my eggs would be good. Because I might look young or act young, but your body's not inside. Whether I like it or not, my body's older. Katie, there's so much to get through.

I feel like I've only asked half my questions. But I'm so incredibly grateful for your openness and your courage and I suppose I want to end asking oh do we have to end don't worry you're going to Australia tomorrow oh my god come with me come with me I'd love to don't worry we're doing it we're doing it we're doing a fading with friends subscribe episode yeah yeah it's fine but I wanted to know if someone is out there listening and they've got a misconception of you because they remember you from the 90s or they think of you as the tabloid caricature. Yeah. Or they think of like car crashes and bad marriages.

But that is because I see what they read and I agree with them. But what would you like to say to them? What misconception would you like to correct? Who is Katie Price in one sentence or less? I'm very misunderstood. And the only way I could say it, until you meet me, you will realise I'm completely different to what the public are seeing. I'm actually very kind, chilled, laid back, patient,

and all I want to do is do everything for everyone else I'm always last to do things for myself I remember one of my wedding days I made sure all the bridesmaids had all their hair and makeup done time was run I just quickly did my own makeup my own hair that's the kind of person I am don't judge a book by its character. Mind you, I do change a lot my face, don't I? But it sounds to me like not only is this next step in your life about singing and doing joyful things, it's also about claiming your own power. I am a survivor. You are.

I've got to say that. I know I am. I know what I have to go through daily. Katie Price, thank you so much for coming on How To Fail. Do you know what? I love it. I love it. It's pink and I want to come back you are welcome back anytime and enjoy your tour and you got your book out everyone get a book stop it you're so sweet this is you taking care of everyone else yeah all right don't forget the Katie Price show as well my podcast podcast and I just wanted to remind you that Katie and I talk more over at failing with friends it's a wonderful community of subscribers where we chat through your failures and questions

so I think always push yourself out of your comfort zone I don't think anyone properly fits in a job because things always change all the time. There'll be someone more creative. You're in your job, so don't doubt yourself. I think you should always have that excitement or that bit of nerve to want to do better than that because otherwise it's boring. I love that. If you're not yet a subscriber, I'd highly recommend it. I'm completely unbiased and I'd love for you to join us. Just visit the How To Fail show page on Apple Podcasts and click start free at the top of the page to begin your free trial and start listening today.

And remember to follow us. Press the plus button on the top right to get new episodes of How To Fail as soon as they drop on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. And please tell all your friends and your enemies I'm not fussy. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.