How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Kelly Brook - I’m In My Don’t Give A Damn Era!

Starting point is 00:00:00 I remember going into the agency in my school uniform and I said, I won't do page three and I won't do topless, but I'll definitely do linger and swimwear. Like, I was very happy with that. Unfortunately, as I get older, I've become more of a selfish bitch. And I don't really care anymore. Oh, well, I was offered Mungaro literally last week by a doctor. Wow.

Starting point is 00:00:21 Isn't that insane? Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that treats all failure as data acquisition. Before we get onto this episode, please do subscribe because it really, really helps and it ensures that you will never miss a single conversation. I know from experience that starting your own business can be super intimidating and can feel really isolating. So I empathise with those of you who are currently feeling that way. However, I've got a tool for you that can simplify everything and make you feel less alone. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world

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Starting point is 00:01:39 Oh, hello. I'm Simon May. Oh, hello. I'm Mark Kermode. And on this week's take. It's a pack show. We have reviews of Predator Badlands, coral, Die My Love, and Anemone with our very special guests, plural. Yes, it's director, Ronan Day-Lewis, and one of it stars his father, Daniel DeLewis or Sir Daniel DeLois. Or Danibor? No, wrong one. Everything is fantastic. We'll see you there. And if you're not subscribed already, what are you thinking?

Starting point is 00:02:08 Subscribe for extra takes and bonus goodies now. Kelly Brook is a woman whose career has reflected the shifting tides of the British media landscape. From first finding fame as a glamour model in the 1990s and being voted FFRAC, HM's sexiest woman in the world on more than one occasion, she later made the move into TV presenting and acting. But she was dogged by sexist public perceptions, enduring years of mean-spirited headlines, public scrutiny and media diminishment. She had to work tirelessly to prove herself. And she did. Today, Brooke, the daughter of a scaffolder and a cook from Rochester Kent, who got a place at stage school after watching fame on television

Starting point is 00:02:53 is a radio presenter on Heart FM and a regular panelist on ITV's Loose Women. It's also just been revealed that she'll take part in this year's I'm a Celebrity. Alongside her professional evolution, Brooks unstinting honesty about her changing body as well as her decision not to have children after miscarriage and her work on her own self-worth

Starting point is 00:03:17 has brought her a new credibility and happiness in her personal life. Brooke married model, actor and judo expert Jeremy Parisi in 2022. He says of his wife, Everyone knows that Kelly is beautiful. But what they don't know is she's a woman with whom everything is possible. There are no limits. Kelly Brooke, welcome to How to Fail. That makes me cry and we've only just started.

Starting point is 00:03:45 Oh, Kelly! I thought that was such a gorgeous thing for him to say. That is so sweet. He says that to me a lot. Do you agree with him? I never thought about it until I met him. And I realized how much we put limitations on ourselves as people and maybe how much limitation he'd put on himself. And I think when he met me, I think we gave each other confidence to just live our dreams and to do things.

Starting point is 00:04:13 Maybe we wouldn't have done before. So likewise, I think he makes me feel like anything's possible. So I think it's a mutual thing. Tell me the story of how you met because it's one of my favorite meat-cutes. We met. This is so funny. I was living in Los Angeles and my girlfriend and I were studying martial arts to keep fit. One night we went home, we were watching some martial arts videos, and I saw a picture of him.

Starting point is 00:04:39 And it just had this headline like Jeremy Parisi, like judo champion. and I just thought he was the most beautiful looking man I'd ever seen. And I just started following him on Instagram and he followed me back and we started chatting. And we literally just were friends for like six months, just kind of talking about fitness and health and what we were doing. And then when I finally came back to London, I said, why don't you just come over and visit and spend the weekend with us in London and come out with me and my friends? And we kept it really casual.

Starting point is 00:05:11 So we were friends for quite a long time before. It became romantic, which was nice. But we've met before. I interviewed you for a newspaper in 2009. And I really liked you then. And I have actually always felt so happy for you, like watching your progress. And it strikes me that in your relationship with Jeremy, I think you have what I have in my now relationship with Justin,

Starting point is 00:05:38 which is a feeling of safety and acceptance of who you actually are, than who you might have been performing before. Does that track with you? Oh, absolutely. I think when I met my husband, it was just, I wasn't ready for it. And I actually didn't accept it for about two years. I just assumed that at some point, you know, I was going to see kind of cracks in the relationship and see him for who he really was and the fact that he just wanted to be

Starting point is 00:06:04 with a famous woman or, you know, all of these things that I'd kind of dealt with in previous relationships and it was just he used to say to me I don't know what you're expecting like this is me like I love you and I want to be with you and he didn't just say it it was how he portrayed his love through his actions he didn't speak English when we met his you know English is his third language he learned English fluently he just made so many sacrifices to be with me, which were, in my eyes, just the sheer definition of love, whereas anyone can say it. I mean, we're 10 years in now. And unfortunately, when it's right, it goes by so quickly, that's the only downside with me

Starting point is 00:06:49 in the love of your life. And you're like, oh, wow, God, the time is really flying by. And I think we try and just spend as much time together as possible and try and do everything together to keep, you know, the family together. And yeah, it's just been the most incredible 10 years of my life. Well, having said that about spending time together, you're about to spend three weeks apart, hopefully, because you're about to fly to Australia to take part in this year's I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here. Congratulations on being cast. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:07:16 Now, you did say that you'd never do I'm a celebrity. Back in 2018, you were quoted saying you'd never do it. So what's changed? Okay, what changed? Really good question. A friend of mine got asked to have a meeting with the producers of I'm a celebrity. and they told me that they were meeting for this show and I said, you have to do it.

Starting point is 00:07:37 It will be the most amazing thing. I absolutely love watching that show. Oh my God, you'll have the most, what an incredible life experience. Like, you're just going to be so great on it. And I was saying all of this and then thinking to myself afterwards, well, why can't I give myself that advice?

Starting point is 00:07:53 How do I find it so easy to give someone else like life advice like that? But I'd never follow my own. And I realized it was just basically, out of fear. And I thought to myself, do you know what? It's about time that I kind of live my don't give a damn era. And so I started thinking about it. And I thought maybe I should meet the producers of this show. And maybe I should find out what it's all about. And I do love the show anyway. And luckily enough, there was a space and they gave it to me. I'm so excited to see you

Starting point is 00:08:23 on screen. Now, we're not allowed to talk about any other rumoured castmates. But can you Tell me about what you're doing to prepare. A lot of body lasering, a lot of hair removal, because I don't think there'll be much of that going on. What am I doing to prepare? I've cut out the coffee because I think that would be a big thing for me, just not having caffeine. It's funny, like your day-to-day things that you are kind of hooked on,

Starting point is 00:08:47 like caffeine, sugar, things like that. Like, I love cooking for myself. Like, I love to eat. I love a glass of wine. So I'm just kind of winding down all of those things that, you know, are kind of my comfort here, you know, that I'm not going to have there. So that's really mostly what I've been doing and just kind of getting my head around it and watching trials back on the television, just reruns to see what I'll be doing.

Starting point is 00:09:12 What are you most nervous about? I mean, I'm terrified of everything. I think as I've got older, I've got more phobias. I'm even scared to get the tube at, like, Lester Square and go up that escalator because it's too steep for me. Like, I wait for someone to be behind me and in front of me, like, I'm sandwiched. So I think I'm scared of heights, I'm scared of snakes, I'm scared of spiders, like, all of those things. I don't mind them in like small doses, but the fact that they're going to be running all over me on me is like terrifying.

Starting point is 00:09:38 But I'm happy to kind of just face my phobias. I think it would be quite empowering. Are you scared of your fellow celebrities? By which I mean, like, because it's very intense spending what could be three weeks with people you might not know or you might know a bit or and there's probably a lot of ego in the jungle. Yeah, I mean, I do think that it is down to the group you're with, isn't it? I mean, I do hope that we have a really good group. I'm not a lazy person, so I love to cook, I love to clean, I love to muck in. I mean, I get bored really easily.

Starting point is 00:10:11 So that won't be a problem for me. Yeah, I just hope that we just have a really good group and have a really good laugh. And are you worried about having to give up your phone? That actually not so much, because Jeremy and I did a show called Race Across the World, and we gave up our phones for five weeks. And it was really liberated. and I actually stopped having headaches because I sometimes get like headaches from

Starting point is 00:10:31 everything's on your phone now, isn't it? So not really. I think that's, it's like being a kid again, isn't it? Just imagine like your day-to-day grind of what we have to do, go to work, take the dog out, do the washing, you know, all that day-to-day chores. Like all of that goes out the window and you just get to like lay in a hammock for five weeks

Starting point is 00:10:49 and just light a fire and do a few trials. How hard can it be? Well, I can't wait to, see you on our screen. So the first episode is Sunday the 16th of November. And I'm so delighted that you've come on how to fail because it's the first time you're actually talking about it publicly. Yes, it is. So thank you for choosing us. It's an exclusive. Yay. I also really appreciate this idea that you're entering your era of giving less of a fuck. Absolutely. And what people think. Now, remind me of your age. Oh, I'll be 46 when, yeah. I'm 46. Best age. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:27 So is it something about being in your 40s that you think has been empowering in that regard? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, but also I think there was a lot of things I wanted to do in my life. And, you know, in a long career, you know, there's certain things that you would choose to do that would stop you doing other things you want to do. And I always felt like maybe television or reality television would kind of derail that. So there was, there's a lot of snobbery in our business. I'm not a snob when it comes. to work. I think anyone that wants to work is fantastic and it all works great work. But in our business it's never seen like that. So I think this has come around at the right time where I feel like I've ticked a lot of those boxes and I've done a lot of those things

Starting point is 00:12:14 that I wanted to do. And now with something like I'm a celebrity, it's like the right time. You know, it's like, who cares? I've done it. I've been in the theatre. You know, I've got a great radio show. I've been to America. Like I've done us so much. that I just feel like now I want to do something for me. Well, that idea of all work being good work actually brings us on to your first failure. And I have to say, Kelly Brook, these are some absolute humdingers in terms of failures.

Starting point is 00:12:40 They are so profound and we're going to get so deep with them and I'm really grateful to you for giving this the thought that you clearly have. And thank you for the free therapy. Oh my gosh, anytime. That's the biggest compliment you can pay me. So don't worry, there's a box of tissues right there. I used to get so anxious about holidays and travel.

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Starting point is 00:13:34 With over 400 adventures across nearly 100 countries, you'll be spoiled for choice, not overwhelmed by it. Our time off is precious, so why risk another holiday fail? Visit explore.com.com.uk. And like 98% of Explore's customers, I guarantee you'll be back for more. okay so your first failure is your failure to acknowledge success and you said to me that you feel like this comes from working class guilt so talk to me a little bit about that and about your childhood and how the value of work was talked about in your home so my dad was a very hard worker

Starting point is 00:14:17 he was a scaffolder and worked every day um right up until the day he died um and you know i came from a very normal working class background. But success came to me very quickly. So even though we all worked hard as a family, there was never a lot of money there. So we were quite poor growing up. We didn't have a lot. You know, we had enough, but we didn't have a lot. And there were a lot of problems in the house in terms of like drinking, for example. Like my mum and dad would drink a lot. They would sometimes fight. You know, I've talked about that quite a lot in the book that I released a few years ago. So there was a lot of things that were happening that I thought being young and naive was a result of us being poor. And I thought if I was to work hard and be successful and make

Starting point is 00:15:06 money, then that would change all of that. And actually, it would make things better. And then obviously when success comes to you quick and money comes to you quick, you know, my first TV job, I was 18, and I had money and I had success. And you realize that that actually doesn't change those things. You know, people are people. They're always going to be those people and you can't change people or dynamics. It's quite a big wake-up call and to have that quite early on was quite significant for me. Some of your childhood you kind of want to remove yourself from and getting into showbiz and performing does remove you from that. And so it's a lovely world that you create and my mum would call it Kelly's World. I was all right for you in Kelly's World.

Starting point is 00:15:49 But that's really alienating and quite a lonely place to be in Kelly's world. So straddling Kelly's world and then having a relationship with your family. And it's something I still struggle with now. That phrase Kelly's world also sounds like it can be quite diminishing. Well, it's just like you're just on another planet. You're someone else now. You're like, oh, you're just, you're in your own world. It's like we don't relate to you anymore.

Starting point is 00:16:13 That's what you do. And when your family are doing that, it's so upsetting. Because, you know, I want to be with my family more than I want to be in Kelly's world. But, you know, this career and this path I've chosen is, you know, giving me all these opportunities, wealth, you know, things that I could have, you know, be on my wildest dreams. And to be made to feel guilty to enjoy those things was really difficult. You got your first job, I think, when you were 16, is that right? Yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:16:46 Okay. So this was all happening when you were really. young as well, and when you were also, adolescents are trying to find their own identities within and without the family unit. What was your first job? My first job was, I was a glamour modelling. It was on a, it was a swimwear shoot in Portugal, on a beach with amateur photographers, not even professional photographers, and they would pay to take pictures of you in your bikini. That was a job. Yeah. And you were 16. I was 16. How did that feel? Strange. Quite strange. But, you know, I kind of had to grow up really quickly, you know. I mean, I went to school in London from the age of 11. I would get on the train every day. And, you know, I was very, I was very grown up for my age. I think I had to go up really quickly. I didn't have much of a childhood in terms of that. Like, it was like, you know, going to school in London was quite a big deal. And I wasn't chaperoned or anything.

Starting point is 00:17:48 I always felt older than my years and quite mature for my years anyway, but being sexualized like that at such a young age was very uncomfortable. I've never felt like a sexy woman. I've never, I'm like a clown. I like to make people laugh. I like to have egg on my face. Like I'm, I'm like quirky in that respect. So to be sexualized and to be seen as sexy was just a bit of a strange thing that didn't really resonate with my soul. You know, my physical appearance of my soul like two different things. Yeah. So that's kind of interesting. Very interesting because it was also your ticket out. So I imagine you wanted to pursue it even though it wasn't necessarily aligned with your soul's purpose. No, I think, no, no, it was that job actually was, yeah,

Starting point is 00:18:35 it was something that came along through someone that knew my mother at the time actually. So that wasn't something that I necessarily pursued. But yeah, having an agent was something that was really good. I got a model agent from the age of like 16. She was a lady called Samantha Bond and she looked after a lot of glamour models. I couldn't really sign with a fashion agency at that time because I was very curvy. And I remember going into the agency in my school uniform and I said, I won't do page three and I won't do topless, but I'll definitely do linger and swimwear. Like I was very happy with that. And they booked me for lots of different jobs. I did pop videos and commercials and all sorts of things. So I had a couple of years of, you know, working quite a lot and really enjoying myself and

Starting point is 00:19:17 doing quite well. And at the height of this phase of your life, you were so famous and regarded by so many people, both men and women, as like the ideal of what a woman should look like. What was that like for you? When you were just going about your daily business and walking down the street, would you have people come up to you and say, you're FHM's most sexy women in the world? Like, what? Because it's, you know what, Elizabeth, like sitting here now as 46 years old, if I had my head and could put it on that body and that person, I mean, can you imagine, like, the world's your oyster? Yeah. Unfortunately, it never matches up like that, does it? Like, you don't feel that in your head. Like, you can't, like, even you say in that now, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:20:04 I guess I was, wasn't I? But I, I don't ever remember having those moments. ever thinking that or feeling that and also in the 90s don't forget like being really thin was very fashionable like being curvy wasn't fashionable so it was only really the lad like the lads mags and and pha maximum all those kind of magazines that were celebrating curvy girls so and I aspired to be in vogue and Cosmo and glamour magazine and those magazines the magazines I read so for me it was just a job I remember when I was trying to buying my first flat and I was driving around South London and I was going in different flats having a look and I remember walking into the bedroom of a teenage boy's bedroom and my like

Starting point is 00:20:49 poster was on the wall and just being absolutely mortified and it never even dawned on me that that poster would go on a wall like I know that sounds crazy but it was I'd turn up do the shoot go home and they didn't really think about the pictures or where they went or who bought those magazines I just didn't ever think about it. The 90s were a time that they're undergoing a bit of a cultural re-evaluation at the moment. Like what we put women through in the 90s, it's astonishing that anyone with a profile managed to survive that decade. How do you feel about the 90s and the 90s treatment of women in the public eye

Starting point is 00:21:26 now looking back with your 46-year-old head? It's really hard, isn't it? Because you look back and you think, I mean, I work with young people now at the, radio and I see how sensitive the younger generations are and rightly so and how they don't tolerate it. And it upsets me that in the 90s that we did tolerate it, you know, but we didn't really have a voice, you know, we didn't have social media back then. So the media really dictated everyone's opinion about who you were. They dictated your career. They dictated everything. When social media came along, it kind of humanized us in a way that had never happened

Starting point is 00:22:05 before because all of a sudden we had our voice and we could talk and say what we felt and what was going on and it's it's just changed the whole landscape um yeah looking back it was it was just dominated wasn't it by cruel writers bullies really trolls it's that it's like that's the equivalent of now isn't it yeah you know the trolling but it wasn't kind of in the forums it was you know like headlines how much of this failure to acknowledge that is about a need to be relatable, I put that in quotation marks, or likable, like a need to be accepted still. The failure to acknowledge success also comes from, you know, criticism, you know, people telling

Starting point is 00:22:47 you're not very good, you know, all of that. So if you read that enough, you start to believe it anyway. I mean, I think Elton John said once, there's nothing that keeps you more grounded than reading your own reviews for things, like keeps your feet on the ground. It's a very British thing, isn't it? You know, I think when I went to America, that was a big eye-opener for me, you know, because I think the American culture is to always, you know, big yourself up and to, you know, be your own biggest fan, really. And I just don't think we have that in the UK. So because I've lived in America and in the UK, you know, over the years, I do try to aspire to be more American sometimes. And I think it's okay to kind of tap yourself on the back sometimes and say, yeah, you've smashed it. You've done a really good job. But I do struggle with it. It's not my comfortable place, I have to say. So you've said it's not your comfort zone.

Starting point is 00:23:37 I'm about to do a horrible thing and put you in an uncomfortable place and ask you about success. What for you do you think success is now? My marriage. My marriage is just the best thing in my life. Yeah, just being able to have a happy, healthy marriage with somebody that I love dearly. Like it just, it's like that comes, that's my top priority above every. thing. In the past, I would be very selfish when it came to work. You know, work was such a big

Starting point is 00:24:09 driver for me. And I never thought about my relationships in those moments when I was making decisions. And that was a default, really. I should have done. I should have been a bit more considerate to my partners. I should have been a lot more considerate. But I was young and selfish. And I just don't feel like I'm in that place now. I just feel like when you meet someone that you really truly love, you just want to make sure that all your decisions that they're considered so yeah if anyone is listening to this and they are in the kind of wilderness of dating and they've gone through failed relationships and they don't think they're going to meet the person and they're wondering what to do and what advice they could hear from someone who has

Starting point is 00:24:49 found the person what would you say to them what would you say to your younger self who might never have believed that she would meet jeremy i would say just give people a chance you know sometimes the people are the most unexpected is sometimes the ones that are the right ones and you know with Jeremy he didn't even speak English when we met my mother said that was part of our success in the beginning that's why he stayed around so long but yeah I would say just persevere

Starting point is 00:25:21 I know people's I know this is a cliche when people say it takes work and I never really understood what that meant because I thought well I thought that meant chemistry Like you've got to work on chemistry or, you know, that's sexual attraction. I thought, well, if you have to work on that, it's not there. And I don't think it's work in terms of that because I think that thing comes and goes in waves anyway throughout relationships. I think the work comes from, yeah, just being more considerate of them and showing up for them, you know, as well as not losing yourself in that process. I could not agree more.

Starting point is 00:25:55 So I met Justin, my now husband, on Hinge, this dating app. And I met him because I changed my parameters So I like up to the age limit Even though he's not like 85 or anything And if I hadn't changed those parameters and that checklist And I would never have found him Yeah So I think that's great advice

Starting point is 00:26:13 Yeah my friends said to me He's like Kelly You tell me what you want But what you do is completely different And I was like oh Because you sit there You're like I just want a really nice man I loved your impression of the friends

Starting point is 00:26:25 Oh no yeah Randall He just told me one day over lunch he just told me as it was that's hilarious okay well let's get on to your second failure which is as you said kind of connected to this which is failure to put up boundaries yes so did that start with your family oh yeah I mean I think it starts with reader reviews as well for work like you know put up that boundary you know you don't need to you don't need to let that into your into your head space you know you don't want that living rent free that you're terrible and no good at your job. So that can, you can park that. Family is a really interesting one because

Starting point is 00:27:03 boundaries definitely have to be put up there because mothers and daughters, as you know, there's, there's few boundaries there. So my mom had me when she was very young, like she was 17. So I grew up with a very young mother. Like sometimes I feel like we're more sisters than like mother daughter. And yeah, I think just always wanting that kind of validation, that all your decisions have to be run through your family and getting into that kind of codependent routine is not healthy. So I think when I got into my mid-30s and all of that back and forth hadn't served me,

Starting point is 00:27:39 I just had to put up a boundary and make my own decisions and just kind of stick with it. Like putting up boundaries, knowing that those people might fall away, you know, in terms of friendships as well. You know, I've lost a lot of friendships over the years because of certain things that have happened and you just think,

Starting point is 00:27:57 that just doesn't serve me anymore. That's not helping me grow. And I think people get scared when you grow and it looks like you're kind of changing, you know. I think people like you to stay who they think they know. I'm very interested in how, in your first failure, we spoke a little bit about the need to be likable and accepted. And I think there's a misconception

Starting point is 00:28:18 that lots of people think that putting a boundary up makes you unlikable or selfish in some way. what would you say to them? What have you learned about boundaries and how to implement them? Because I think a lot of people, particularly women, find it very difficult. It's not like you don't want to be there for people or acknowledge people's issues or struggles or whatever people are going through. But it can't be to the detriment of you.

Starting point is 00:28:41 And I think that can sometimes be where you kind of fall down. And I think I'm such a people, I have been in the past such a people please. and wanting to be friends with everyone and wanting to be there for everyone and not putting myself first and it hasn't served me so unfortunately as I get older I've become more of a selfish bitch

Starting point is 00:29:04 and I don't really care anymore I'll be the episode title thanks very much Kelly how did that play out in romantic relationships before Jeremy I think definitely in my first relationship there was definitely elements of codependency and there was elements

Starting point is 00:29:22 of me putting my career and my life on hold. I had a really good job at MTV. I remember I was hosting a daily show there and it was just after I'd got fired off the Big Breakfast and I got a really great show there and I was there for about a year and my boyfriend at the time was an actor and I remember he, you know, got offered a few roles in things, you know, it was like a bouncer on the door in EastEnders doing something and he had so much talent and charisma And I was like, you know what? We just got to go to America. I just think it's going to be like the making of us if we just go.

Starting point is 00:29:59 But I had this really good job. And we had no money. And I quit my job and we went. And I kind of was like there as this kind of like support network for him and watched his career flourish, whereas mine kind of floundered a bit because I didn't have the same opportunities. And I was just kind of flying back and forth between the youth. UK and L.A. and it was quite taxing and expensive and it was exhausting. And his career just took

Starting point is 00:30:30 off and it just became like the most incredible thing. But because I did so much and didn't look after myself, I just felt so neglected in that dynamic. And to the point where I actually fell out of love with him in the end because he hadn't showed up for me like I'd showed up for him. I didn't feel. So we broke up. And I think he just turned around to me and was like, why are you leaving now? Like, look, like, I'm a movie star and I'm a millionaire. Like, why now? And I was like, you just didn't, you just haven't been there.

Starting point is 00:31:08 Like, you haven't been there for me. And I need to become a woman. Like, during this process, I've kind of become a woman. And, you know, I don't think you know who I am anymore. Like, you know the girl that quit MTV and came with you, but you don't know the woman. And so it was just a really hard time. But I think that was the first time where I really kind of did something for myself.

Starting point is 00:31:30 And it was the best decision. Oh my God, the best decision. That's an amazing story. Thank you for sharing it. That's okay. It needs to be this person. Was it Jason Statham? It was.

Starting point is 00:31:40 It was. I think everyone kind of knows. I know. Well, it was public. I'm not saying anything that isn't in the public domain anyway. People might not relate to having dated Jason Statham, but people can so relate to what you've just said

Starting point is 00:31:52 there, I can relate to it. And I think there's, it's so powerful finally to get to that point where you're like, actually, if I stay here, I'm going to lose myself and being true to yourself being more important than keeping the peace. Yeah, absolutely. Because I could have stayed there and, you know, lived the life. But I just, I needed to grow as a woman, as a person. I needed my own career. I needed to have other relationships. You know, I think I broke both of our hearts in that situation. And then I went on and had my heart broken by somebody. And I needed to learn that because all of that has led me to, you know, my relationship now with Jeremy. And that's why I hold it so sacred. Like, I would never want to hurt him. And I think likewise, he would never

Starting point is 00:32:39 want to hurt me. So you just protect it. And it's only until you've broken a heart or had your heartbroken that you have that kind of feeling, I think. You've got to go through it all. Did you ever have the experience of dating someone who wanted to date Kelly Brooke, the model and TV presenter? And did you feel the pressure of living up to that rather than being Kelly Brooke human? I think in my 30s, I dated a lot of younger guys. I do think that that kind of was more my like maternal side coming out when I look back I think what was that whole era about um that was that was an interesting chapter um yeah because I didn't have children or anything I think my kind of maternal nurturing side definitely was being exploited in that moment so yeah I definitely think

Starting point is 00:33:31 those guys were probably with me for the fact that I was on television and and a famous woman but then likewise you know I got to mother them so I mean, you were having the time too. Whatever. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Yeah, we were chatting before we started recording about the time that I first met you and you were dating a 21-year-old rugby player. Yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:33:52 I was like, when I read that back, like 15 years later, I was like, what the hell was I thinking? But yeah, I mean, shortly after that, I did, you know, try to have a family. So I was definitely, that was definitely scratching at the kind of maternal side of me for sure. Yes. Well, when we met it was 2009 and the other thing that you were grappling with then was that you had lost your dad just two years earlier and I wanted to ask you about that

Starting point is 00:34:19 and first of all say again that I'm so sorry for your loss because at the time when all of this was happening in your life to lose someone so dear to you must have been incredibly difficult what do you think he would have made of Jeremy? Oh, he would have loved Jeremy. Yeah, my dad would have loved Jeremy so much

Starting point is 00:34:37 yeah gosh that was such a difficult time that was such a lot to navigate especially when you lose parents really young and none of your friends have been through that and I just don't think you ever really understand what people are going through until you've been through it unfortunately so it was like oh you know Kelly's father passed away but you know let's all go out clubbing now it's just like life kind of just continues and you're just in this like whirlwind I think when we met, I must have been probably about eight stone. I just remember being so thin and weak and just sad. I just remember that. I know that grief is not linear and it never goes away. How are you with your grief now? Yeah, I've come to terms with it. I think I'm happy that my

Starting point is 00:35:22 mum has moved on and she's found happiness with somebody else. So that's good. The downside to that is I feel more removed from her now as well because obviously now she's got a new family. So I think when you lose someone as significant as your dad, and my dad was really the glue to our family, it all feels a bit kind of fragmented and a bit everyone kind of goes off and does their own thing. I think the dynamic of the family never really recovers from that. So that's been really difficult to adjust to.

Starting point is 00:35:51 Like, Christmas is never the same. It's just not that, it's just not the same. But I'm happy that she's happy. That's good. But yeah, I mean, I miss my dad every day. You mentioned there that when you look back at photos of yourself, when you were in real pain and you were about eight stone, you see an unhappy young woman. I'm very wary of bringing this up because we're all sick of talking about it. And yet it's so important.

Starting point is 00:36:20 And I wonder if you could talk to me about changing bodies. Do you mind my asking about it? No, no. Because, you know, you and I both remember the 90s. We both came of age in the 90s. And I had felt like we were past that, like, past that desire for thinness, past that desire to, like, shrink ourselves. And yet with weight loss jabs, and I'm not including people who are on weight loss jabs for health reasons,

Starting point is 00:36:48 but it feels like there's a lot of that noise that has come back again with a vengeance. And I wonder how you navigate all of that. Oh, well, I was offered Munjaro literally last week by a doctor. Wow. Isn't that insane? That's, isn't that insane? So upsetting, Kelly. I know.

Starting point is 00:37:08 That is insane and I, look, I'm all for, I love facials, I love, you know, massage, you know, I have a little bit of Botox here because I frown a lot. So, you know, I do do things. But when it comes to my body, I'm really precious about my body. I love my body. I absolutely love my body. I ran a marathon this year and I'm 45 years old. My body has got me through so many things and I just love my curves

Starting point is 00:37:41 my husband loves my curves I just think it's just unfortunate that women feel the need to change who they are and what did you say to that doctor? I said, what do I need that for? What did they say? He said everyone's on it and I said, well I'm not on it

Starting point is 00:38:01 And I said, what are the side effects? He goes, oh, there aren't any. I said, well, you know. And then, yeah, there was a whole conversation. I don't comply. He knows I don't comply because they try to give me all sorts of things. I'm like, nope, no, no, I know what I like. I wonder if how you feel about your body, as I do, feel about my own body,

Starting point is 00:38:21 is related to your third failure, which is something that I can't wait to talk to you about because I've been on a similar path. And your third failure, as you put it, is the failure. of not starting a family. Yes. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler.

Starting point is 00:38:39 You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bell Air Direct and use the money to fix your car.

Starting point is 00:38:49 Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. Were you someone who grew up wanting to be a mother? No. I don't think I ever wanted to be a mother. I think that comes from having to grow up very quickly as a young girl and not having the most healthiest relationship with my mother and her not having a healthy relationship with her mother

Starting point is 00:39:17 because it's all, you know, it all trickles down, doesn't it? So I think by the time it got to me, I just didn't want any part of that kind of mother, daughter or relationship. So I didn't see that in part of my plan at all. But then in my 30s I got pregnant and it was with somebody that I hadn't been with for very long. And it was really a case of like, well, I'm in my 30s. This might be my last roll of the dice. Maybe I should just do this.

Starting point is 00:39:46 He's a nice guy. You know, maybe this is it. Maybe it's that kind of, you know, whole like kind of taxi like thing goes off and this is what we're going to do. and my partner at the time really wanted to have the baby and I got my head around it and we moved forward with that and that was a decision we made and then lo and behold

Starting point is 00:40:07 I had a miscarriage at six months which was the most traumatic horrific thing that I've ever been through and it was just the most devastating thing and it took me quite a long time for my body and for everything to kind of I don't think you ever fully recover from that. But our relationship didn't survive that.

Starting point is 00:40:31 And I just had to kind of pick myself back up and just kind of move forward. And I just think, I was so traumatized by it. I just never even wanted to try again. I just thought it's not in my, it's not in my world. I just don't want to go through that again. Callie, I'm so sorry. Did you not know that? I did not know it was six months.

Starting point is 00:40:51 Yes, it was, yeah. Because I do know that you have to go through the process of giving birth. Yeah, yeah, you do, yeah. Yeah. Tell me if this is too much or too intrusive. Did you give your baby a name and did you bury your baby? I went through the birth because it was for me something that we did together, me and the baby. We had to finish.

Starting point is 00:41:18 I didn't want any medical intervention in that. I wanted to go through that myself. And the baby was born sleeping, obviously. So I was asked for a name. I didn't have a name. And at that point, I didn't want to have a name. So it was, it's just a way of me coping. And I know so many women deal with this in so many different ways.

Starting point is 00:41:50 And I was told that I would regret that. and I should really have a name and I should have footprints and all of these handprints and all of these things and I just chose not to and at the time miscarriage wasn't something we talked about it really wasn't something we talked about it was something that you kind of hid away it felt like you'd failed it was very shameful and I didn't know anyone else that had been through that everyone I'd known that had got pregnant had their baby um but I think because I'm no longer with that partner now and out of respect to my husband now, I think it's kind of something I've had to just kind of draw a line under and I treat it like a miscarriage, even though it was

Starting point is 00:42:35 more than that. I have to treat it like a miscarriage because it's the only way I can cope because I just don't know how I could get through every day if I didn't. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for you. I'm so sorry for you. And I'm so struck by that phrase that it was something you and the baby had to go through together. And that for me makes you a mother. And there are so many different ways to mother and parent in this world. And that's how you show up. And there's so much misplaced shame that women carry that you've expressed so powerfully there. And I'm really sorry that you had to deal with that as well. And you're right, it wasn't spoken about it very much at all. No. And that's

Starting point is 00:43:16 why I'm speaking about it now because... Not everyone feels the same about miscarriage, and not everyone has the same experience as the next person. And I felt guilty about that a lot of the time. I'd see women in the public eye, and they did have names for their babies, and they do mark the occasion every year, and they do this.

Starting point is 00:43:42 And I don't do that. And I felt like, is there something wrong with me? Like, am I, is there something missing? Am I, do I not feel? Do I not have empathy? Am I like, is there nothing inside? And it's, and it's actually nothing to do with that. Because I'm still here and I've got to face every day and get through every day.

Starting point is 00:44:05 So I have to do what I have to do to get through every day. Well, it's resonating very deeply with me, actually, because I'm finding this conversation really healing in a way I didn't know that I needed. Oh, really? Yes, in the sense that I, think I've had three miscarriages much earlier than yours and I think I did similar things in that I went into a state of denial and didn't allow myself to think of them as children and then you have that associated guilt that you've expressed so well of well does that mean I'm not maternal

Starting point is 00:44:42 and maybe the universe is saying to me again and again you're not maternal and that's why you don't deserve to be a mother. And we are so punishing to ourselves and so self-critical. And it's taken me years to be at peace with that. And actually you've really helped me identify that because it's actually not, I don't think it is that we didn't care enough. It's that we care too much to allow ourselves that wishful thinking. Possibly. And a bit like you, I've decided to be peace for the fact that I won't be a mother in the biological conventional sense. And like you, I'm very passionate in talking about it because I want women to know that there is hope and joy and peace and fulfillment on the other side of it. Whereas so often, even now we're still

Starting point is 00:45:33 taught, well, if you haven't managed this thing, then you're not a full woman, which is not the case. But like you said, we did manage it, you know, to a degree. Yes. Well put. Yeah. Exactly. It's just our, it wasn't the traditional sense that kind of followed. But we've been, yeah, we've been through the experience and it's, and we've come out the other side. I don't know if this tracks with you, but I do have a kind of spiritual belief and I do believe in other lives and alternative lives. So I'm not a mother in the conventional sense this lifetime, but perhaps I was in a past one and perhaps I will be again in another. And that gives me. me a great deal of solace as well. Do you have a dog? I have a cat. There you get. He's like, he's the dog wrapped up in a cat's body. I love him so much. And I have loads, I'm sure you do as well. I have loads of children in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I have nieces and Godchildren and all of that. I mean, you can be a nurture of so many different things. Totally. And I feel that, you know, I got into gardening after my miscarriage. I became like an obsessive gardener. You know, it brought out some really

Starting point is 00:46:40 amazing things in my life that I would never have even thought would be possible. Well, gardening is nurturing and growing and creating, so that makes total sense. Yeah, yeah. You've identified this as a failure. Do you feel it as a failure still? I do feel that as a failure because that was my baby. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:10 Yeah, I do, I do. Because even though I probably wouldn't still be with the father, and I kind of always knew that in the back of my mind that that relationship probably wasn't going to be long term. Like, I do feel like I would have been a good mum. Oh my gosh, you would have been, and you are in so many ways. Like I get such strong mothering energy from you. I really do.

Starting point is 00:47:39 In the next life, Kelly. in the next life and you know what you're living a big life and a meaningful life and you sharing this is in and of itself an act of mothering

Starting point is 00:47:52 for people who are listening or watching who have been through something similar they will feel so seen and held in your words I hope so they will I guarantee it I really do I really hope so and I think we're living in such a beautiful time

Starting point is 00:48:06 where you know we can just be are authentic selves and I think you know I really feel like this is the time to I just want to help other women and just you know just I think talking about things and being open about things is the most healing and cathartic thing and you know it's never going to change it but you know it's okay to feel pain but it's also okay to move on with your life yeah and not feel guilty about that i've never felt guilty about moving on with my life but i can't say that you know i'm not devastated that that happened to me and i would do anything to change that yeah i would but you know

Starting point is 00:48:56 we can't control these things so thank you so much for talking about that that's it was so so beautiful i wasn't going to cry i'm sorry i've made you cry it's so hard not too i'm so hard not to but I feel like it's like it's important to talk about it because I know so many women go through it and I think it's important to talk about to give respect to our babies I actually think that's a really meaningful legacy absolutely you said you had something on your phone you might want to read oh I'm just aware of what it oh it was something I was thinking about last night and I was thinking about the kind of I see like life sometimes in chapters, you know, I live so, well, we all live so many different chapters in our lives and we

Starting point is 00:49:42 go through so many different things. And I was thinking about the chapter I'm in now. And I don't know if this resonates with you. But like I said before, it's that kind of don't give a damn era. So it's characterized by things like confidence over consensus, doing what feels right and not what's expected of you. And I think that's where I'm at right now, doing just what feels right, not what people want or what you should be doing. Just going with your gut and trusting that. Like we just spoke about, authenticity over image, showing the real you, flaws and all. This is something I would never have talked about 10 years ago. There's no way. I would have been able to be this vulnerable and show my true self. There's no way. So I think

Starting point is 00:50:28 things like your podcast allows us to do this in a safe space because it really is about feeling safe and about being able to open up. And there's not really been many places that you can do that, you know, in the public eye. Freedom over fear. Saying no without guilt and yes without hesitation. Creative boldness, experimenting, breaking down your own rules and not caring if everyone gets it. So there's just some things I'm trying to live by. Oh my God, that is so good. I want that to be the mantra of how to fail. I have it. Oh, we're so good confidence over consensus.

Starting point is 00:51:06 Would you send it and we can put it in the show notes? Yes, I really hope, yeah. Kelly Brooks Guide to Life. I'm so excited for the remainder of your 40s. I feel like you're only just getting started. That's how I feel, to be honest. Yeah. I think you are an amazing person and we are so lucky to exist in a time when you are on our screens.

Starting point is 00:51:28 Oh, thank you. And I can't wait to see you on I'm a celebrity and I'll be rooting for you and voting for you. Thank you. And I wish you the best of luck with all of those like kangaroo testicles. I mean, it's going to be such a giggle. I can't wait, honestly. And just go in there knowing that the true self, the authentic Kelly Brook that you have shared today is the most magnificent Kelly Brook. And I can't thank you enough for opening up to me and for our audience because it's been so powerful and so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much. Can I give you a half? Yeah, of course. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

Starting point is 00:52:12 Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Kelly Brook - I’m In My Don’t Give A Damn Era!

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