How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Letitia Wright - ‘I was bullied… now I’m Black Panther’

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

You’ll know Letitia Wright from her standout roles in Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, Black Mirror and Top Boy. She won the BAFTA Rising Star award in 2019 and is currently starring in Not Your Superwoman at The Bush Theatre, London. But Letitia’s journey hasn’t always been lined with red carpets. Born in Guyana and raised in Tottenham, North London, she’s faced her share of challenges including depression, anxiety and experiencing the pressure to fit in from a young age. In this episode, Letitia opens up about dealing with online bullying, rejection and the lessons she’s learned along the way. She speaks powerfully about the importance of faith, friendship and resilience, sharing how those pillars helped shape the person she is today. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 02:36 Childhood Memories 11:44 Audition Failures 22:20 Online Bullying and Its Impact 24:40 Struggles with Acting Roles 25:53 Dealing with Negative Thoughts 26:51 Overcoming College Torment 28:59 Finding Purpose in Acting 30:12 Battling Depression 35:41 Directing Debut Challenges 43:36 Processing Grief and Moving Forward 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: "I had to decide: no matter what anyone says about me, whether they like something I do or whether they don’t, I have to do this for me because this is my dream, this is my talent. This is something God has given to me and I have to see it through." “When it doesn’t go your way it tests your character. Who will you be after that point?” “Something greater is on the other side of failure.” 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Letitia is starring in Not Your Superwoman at The Bush Theatre: https://www.bushtheatre.co.uk/event/not-your-superwoman/ Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 📚 WANT MORE? Matt Haig - on surviving depression and managing his own mental health: https://link.chtbl.com/u2XVtjE7 Dr Alex George - on grief, family and identity issues: https://link.chtbl.com/CcYCGIec Simu Liu - Letitia’s fellow Marvel superhero spills the beans: https://link.chtbl.com/YNXXD65e 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Elizabeth and Letitia answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: howtofailpod.com Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Sound Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For me, it felt like the whole of London, all the young people in London gathered on the internet and trolled me. Back then, you didn't know, I didn't know that there was such thing as counselling or therapy. These are things I'd never said before. Welcome to How to Fail. Now, this is the podcast where every week I ask my guest about three times they think they failed in their life and what they learned along the way. Before we get into this conversation, please do remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode of how to fail. Okay, a breaking news, because I absolutely have to tell you about my new TV obsession,

the Real Housewives of London, streaming from the 18th of August only on Hey You. It's going to be the talk of the summer, trust me. You are not going to want to miss it. I have seen the trailer, I've got the BTS Goss, and let me tell you, if you're already a superfan like me or a newbie, prepare to be totally hooked. You probably already know that I love the Real Housewives franchise. My favourites are Atlanta, an old school New York. Thanks so much for asking. And the Real Housewives of London is even more special as it's Hayu's first original series streaming every week. Why wait when you could join me and everyone else talking about it now? Sign up for Hey You now to start watching the Real Housewives of London and see the draw

unfold. A subscription is required and you'll need to be 18 plus. When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Learn more at mx.ca slash yMex. Letitia Wright always had an inner feeling that she was destined to do something big. From her early childhood in Guyana to her teenage years in Tottenham, North London, she carried this feeling with her, starting to experiment with acting.

As a child, she would reenact scenes from her favourite movies, recording one character's part on her laptop, then playing them back and acting the other characters too. When a teacher suggested she'd join an after-school drama club, her course was set, and by 15, she was taking headshot selfies in the bathroom mirror and hand-delivering them to casting agents. By 17, she had her first professional gig on Holby City. A stellar career has followed, from parts in Top Boy and Black Mirror to her dazzling performance as Shuri in Black Panther and its sequel Wakanda Forever to winning the BAFTA Rising Star Award in 2019

starring in Steve McQueen's Small Axe and directing the short film Highway to the Moon. Along the way she experienced and dealt with periods of depression and anxiety. She credits her faith, family and friends for getting her through. Wright is currently appearing on stage at London's The Bush Theatre

in a sold-out run of Not Your Superwoman, a new play written by Emma Dennis Edwards and co-starring Bridgetan actress Golda Rushavale. The production has garnered rave reviews. It's an impressive CV for someone who is still only 31, but who continues to describe herself as just a young kid on the inside with the big dream. Letitia Wright, welcome to How to Fail.

Thank you. That is the most beautiful. introduction ever written. Oh, you're so lovely. No, means a lot. I was very moved by that child. First of all, growing up in Guyana, spending your first eight years there. You were a country girl, weren't you?

I really did not know I was a country girl. Honestly, like, I thought I was just quite normal. But yes, I grew up, like, feeding the chickens and looking after the cows. I just thought that was a normal way of living until years later I would return to Ghana and then I would say I'm a city girl

and they're like no you're not you're a country girl you grew up in the countryside and I was like I did it was just simple everything was just so simple

back then did it feel more complicated immediately when you came to England? Absolutely I was eight

and I was like why is it so cold it was just a culture shift not only the weather but also with my accent and just the world, just everything about London was different. There was different types of opportunities, but it was just a different way of living.

And I had to adapt very quickly, and I felt like that's where the acting skills started to kick in. You know, I had to adapt at school. People would like be looking at my accents. The kids would be like, what are you trying to say? I had to go home and look at myself in the mirror and try to copy a bridge.

English accent or copy the kids so they can understand me. I adapted very quickly and then I just accepted like, yeah, this is my new life and this is where my family have decided to reside and, you know, I will take all the opportunities that I can and make the most of it and I did. I imagine that whole shape-shifting is so useful for your craft. But I wanted to ask you about the tapes that you used to make of yourself, reciting lines from your favourite movies. Is it true that you got into trouble with your aunts?

Yes, I got into a lot of trouble with my aunt and at a young age, a teenage years. You know, I didn't have a lot of friends. So I'd stay inside and watch movies on my laptop. And I'd watch movies with lead and actresses. You know, I'd watch Naomi Harris, so I'd watch Kiki Palmer. I remember watching Winter's Bone and really falling in love with her character

and just feeling like, oh my goodness, like I would love to play a part like that. And I'd print out the lines and literally recite it. And then I took it too far one day. My aunt has this camera and she recorded my cousin's wedding on it. And I picked up this camera and I was just like, you know, forget the laptop. I need to record myself doing a monologue and I recorded over the wedding. Oh my goodness. and I thought I was crying and everything in the monologue, really, like, giving it.

I'm the only one who's viewed it, by the way, up to this point. And then my aunt, just one day, it was just silent in the house, and my aunt's like, Letitia. Oh, my God. What is wrong with this girl? And I was like, Antianne, what's wrong? And she was just like, oh, Lord, God, you're recorded over this. You're recorded over Rachel's wedding. and oh my god my aunt was so upset

and it just shouldn't have done that right I was what like 13 14 and I remember going back to my room and I sat down and it was just that moment of like Tish you have to make it this acting has to happen because you just recorded over your cousin's wedding and your aunt is not joking about it

and I just kind of prayed that one day it would be something that I could look back at and laugh at and my aunt could be proud of me and thankfully that has happened oh it's such a great story so your aunt has forgiven you she absolutely has forgiven me the last public thing we did together

for me celebrating my acting I took her to the Wakanda Forever premiere she's gone to all mostly all of my Black Panther premieres in the UK and the last thing I took her to was Madam Two Swords to see three wax works of myself. And she was in awe and she was crying. And I was just like, yes.

See, Auntie? Yes. That video I took wasn't in vain and I'm still sorry. It was worth it. We will come on to Wakanda in a moment. But tell me about not your superwoman. It's about mothers and daughters, isn't it? Yep.

It's a beautiful play that the concept and the start of it was really Lynette Linton. and she wanted to work of gold, and all three of us, we have Guyanese heritage. So she was just like, I want to make something that would just take a look at what black women go through in terms of the lineage and the generations of different issues, different things, whether it's motherhood, whether it's mental health, wherever it's just that notion of superwoman's schema. Like, you just have to get up and keep going. that doesn't only relate to black women, but just women in general. Like we can't stay down for too long.

We have to pick ourselves up and keep going. And we're never allowed a break in society to feel, to heal, to hurt, to experience. I really appreciate your desire to do work with meaning and with intention. And it does seem to me the thing that has connected all of your roles is that you have really thought about which ones to say yes to. And prime amongst that, of course, and what many people will know you for, is Black Panther. Yeah.

And what I appreciate about the role that you took on there is that, yes, you are a princess, but not in the conventional sense, because you're a scientist, you're brilliant, you're the one who becomes Black Panther in Wakanda forever. And apparently you inspired a generation of young girls to study STEM subjects. How much were you aware of,

that, the kind of radical nature of it when you took on the part. I didn't know fully what I was getting myself into. I didn't research about, I didn't do too much research, basically, meaning I knew who my director was, but I didn't go, I didn't go digging. Because I knew if I went digging, I'd see there's Michael B. Jordan, there's Chadwick, there's Lipita Nyongo, there's Denai Gorira, there's all of these powerhouse actors already attached and I would then be glorifying, working with them instead of focusing on the purpose of the script. So I completely ignored the full email of this could potentially be a Marvel

film. Completely ignored that and went straight for the lines, printed it out and locked in on the character and just recorded it and sent it. And then once I started to realize that I was getting closer, that's when the anxieties started to kick in. And I had to really just regulate myself. I had to really just lock in. I had to pray. I had to just stay focused because the anxiety was kind of like trying to discourage me to say, this is not your moment. You're dreaming here. It's not going to happen for you. Just all of these negative thoughts started to literally bombard me and I had to shut it out to the point where I was this close to not going on. that plane to do that screen test with Chadwick Boseman.

I was so close to not doing it because of the negative thoughts and I just had to just be brave and say, this is my moment, this is my time, whatever happens on the other end, as long as I do a good job, as long as I dedicate myself to this audition, that's all that matters right now. Just focus on this part and before Chadwick walked into the room, I just took it bit by bit and I just wanted to do my best that day. So, yeah, that's how I conquered that. And I think I'll be honest with you, it didn't even hit me when I was filming.

I was more nervous when I was filming more than anything because I kept messing up stuff. I'm green, I'm still green, you know, when it's the biggest film sets in the world. Sometimes I felt like I was letting everybody down. And it was until the premiere in L.A. I watched the film and I was like, whoa. oh my goodness, everything I prayed about, everything I wanted to be, everything I wanted to

manifest in terms of purpose is literally on that screen. I want to come back to some of the things that you mentioned there as they pertain to your failures, but I also want to get into them now because they're so good. And you said to me before we started recording that you had so many failures, your words to choose from, that you'd focused on these ones because they had taught you something. So thank you for that. And your first failure is an audition when you were around 17 years old. Yeah.

What happened? Oh, my dear goodness. It was this audition. I remember it so vividly. It was Naguid Street Station. And it was for a feature film, an independent feature film, established actors. And I remember I prepared as much as possible. I walked in.

And you know, when you can feel. it in the air that something is just not clicking. And I remember, like, going into the room and I was auditioning and I could feel how bad it was. The lines are not coming out properly. You're not feeling the character properly. Like, the director is kind of like looking in agony, like, ooh. The producers are like, oof. And I was just like, I'm so sorry. It felt like a failure to me like my first big failure because I know like when I left I didn't brush it off I went and I sat in a Starbucks and I cried and I was like I don't think acting's for me I don't think I can do this um that was a big hit this is a huge opportunity and you just fumbled it and I just felt so

terrible and of course I did not get the part um I went to to another actress and I remember like seeing the advertisements for the movie and stuff and just feeling really terrible. But in that moment, what I learned from that was like, sometimes things happen that you may want, you know, so badly. And when it doesn't go your way, it tests your character. Like, who will you be after this point? Will you accept that failure and accept that, okay, that lie? like, this is not for you, quit, quit whilst you're ahead, while nobody knows who you are.

Or will you just let it shape you and make you better and cause you to go and study your craft and take more acting lessons and study more audition tapes? So I just had to pick in that moment who I was going to be because if I didn't, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. And this desire to act was quite unique in your family. Yeah. So when this happened to you and you flunked the audition and you felt really terrible, who did you turn to? Did you have anyone to turn to or was it a sort of inside job? It was a little bit of both.

You know, I turned to my mom and my dad and, you know, just, hey, I didn't have a good day today. I didn't have a good audition. My mom would always encourage me and say, hey, like, it's okay. It's not a good one. It didn't go your way today, but keep going, keep trying.

But it's also, my enneagram number is number three, right? I don't know if you've ever done your enragram. I have and I can never remember which my number is. Okay, do it again. I'll do it again. I've done human design.

Does that help? I've not done that. I'll compare next after. But, yeah, my number is number three and it's like overachiever. And I was like, of course.

though I can speak to my parents and I can say, hey, I had a bad day today, I would carry that with me. I'd carry that failure with me. I'd carry that moment just seeing the faces of those people in the audition room going and trying to hide it and was like, so I would internalize it and I would allow it to, like, eat away at my good thoughts.

and that's something that I had to like kind of like manage from very early on and then I didn't know that it was going to lead me to a path of depression but it was like the beginnings of it it was like those really harsh thoughts of giving up you're a failure like you're not going to make it and it would start from those moments of like not achieving something that I thought I was going to achieve

so though I had the support it was also a mental and a personal and internal battle that I had to conquer within myself. Because if I couldn't conquer it, there's not many words my mum could use to help me. Yes. You know? I suppose I wanted to know how much acceptance you think has to play in feeling like a failure after this audition. Did it also feel like you weren't being accepted that you were being rejected?

Yeah, of course. And it's still happening today where, okay, we've done. done our press night. And then the first thing we all say to each other is don't read the reviews. Yeah, yeah. We just did press night

to hear what the critics have to say. But we have to condition ourselves to not read reviews so we don't take a negative review and let it stain the whole of our experience of the show because you're trying to protect yourself.

So at a young age, I had to find a balancing act of How do you do the thing you love? Also take critique, not allow it to make you depressed and sad if something doesn't go your way. And how do you also find acceptance? And how do you also not care about people's acceptance so you can survive it? That's a battlefield. Yes.

I really appreciate your honesty. And I know so many listeners will as well because in our own way, we, so many of us, experience something similar on a much smaller scale every single day. So thank you for that. You're welcome. So within that context then, fame. Yeah.

Oh, gosh. Yeah. What is that like? So do you experience fame as part of your purpose or part of your challenge? Mm. Both. It's an extension of what I do. I see it.

as I was doing this in a small little room in Tottenham and nobody knew but my aunt and my mom and my siblings, I'll be like, what are you doing in there? And cousin Rachel, who's wedding vision. And cousin Rachel. I'm on a project that's of a bigger platform that's more eyes. It has taught me a lot.

It's taught me about my responsibility and what I say, what I do, how I conduct myself. I would say, I would like to say lucky, but I've been very blessed to be able to do this and still have a very protected private life. What is the craziest fame thing that's happened to you? Not much. Is there someone you met who are like, I cannot believe I'm getting to meet this person right now? Oh my goodness.

Naomi Harris is on the top of the list. I've been watching her since I was a teenager. studying all of her work because she was the first person and first woman in the UK that I could see myself when I look at her and I wanted her to be my mentor

and I asked after Breakthrough Britt's team to figure it out and help me connect with her and she's now like a big sister to me I can message her anytime about anything and she's always got time for me and Denzel was like really cool

I'm not going to lie I think that's my favorite one, Denzel Washington. How did you meet him? Oh, dear. I love a story that starts like that. Yeah, oh dear. So we, so we, I missed my opportunity to meet him actually in New York when we were promoting the first Black Panther and we were on our way to Calvin Klein.

It was my first like runway show thing and it was like me, Lupita, Michael B and Chad. And then Chad was late. And he was like, where's Chad? Where's Chad? And then Chad came after. It's like, where are you, bro? And he was just like, I had to speak to Denzel. It's like, that's so cool.

You got to meet Denzel. That's not fair. And then years later, we were filming on Wakanda Forever. And there was like a little bit of like, not commotion, but there was a little bit of like gathering around a particular trailer. And I was like, who's that? And they're like, D.W. I'm like, who's DW?

I said, oh, my God. So I stood outside the trail on the way. I was like, hi, sir, nice to meet you. That was the best handshake in the world. So he's just like, I'm just, I'm just visiting. I said, okay. Then he came on set. He sat and he was at the monitor.

And I was just looking at him like, are you going to sit here through my scene, sir? He absolutely did. and then yeah as Denzel was just watching us as we were acting he was just set visiting and it was beautiful to see him in the flesh and just to sit with him

make jokes and he was just cool and then he also he also called me out he was like you're going to be a director and I was like what the heck you just got here you don't know anything about me I was like

I did not have a desire to direct He was like, I can see you directing one day. And I was like, Sarah, what do you mean? He's just like, yeah, you look, yeah, you look like you're going direct. And then Ryan said that after, I was like, Tish, you look like you're going direct. Like your brain just, you're always thinking about different things. And that became true. So that was one of my favorite encounters, one of my favorite people to meet, Denzel, yeah.

DW. DW. Was it a firm handshake? Yeah, very firm. Very firm. Yeah, he's a gentleman, too. Like, got lots of jokes. You guessed it.

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banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. Your second failure, talking about this rejection from this audition, which was a very sort of salutatory turning point for you at 17, but at 18 years old, you get a part in Top Boy and that becomes a smash hit show and your second failure is allowing online bullying after that release to discourage you from acting and I did not realise there was online bullying

so I'm so sorry you experienced that tell us what happened yeah I did the project and it came out on my birthday and I was still in college at this time we had like Twitter was quite popular and MySpace, but Facebook, Facebook and Twitter was popular.

And I remember like the show would come out and everybody would be online doing commentary as the show was like airing and it was just a lot of hateful comments. Mostly targeting my body size, mostly targeting my skin, mostly targeting just me. Nothing to do with my acting. but most of it was like

she looks like this, she looks like that and I'm 18 and at 18 when you see these things you instantly believe them you instantly go into a hole and again this is one of those things that my parents couldn't help me out of because they could say the nice words

they can say Letitia you're beautiful Don't listen to these young people. But for me, it felt like the whole of London, all the young people in London gathered on the internet and trolled me. And it felt so horrible. And I remember I didn't continue watching the TV show alongside everybody else. I locked myself into my room for like a week

and I'd refused to go to college. I didn't want to go. So I stayed in my room. I would cry. I wouldn't eat. And I was just like, yeah, I didn't want to do the TV show anymore. I was just like, one, I'm getting bullied and two, this is not what I wanted to represent. I didn't want to represent a character like that.

I'm not judging anybody else. But for me, I really believed, like, I wanted to do something different. I wanted a different part. I wanted to represent. Because your character was a drug dealer from a state. I didn't want to do that. And even when I did it at the beginning, I was. I was talking to my mom, like, mom, this is not something I really want to do, but it's an opportunity.

And she's like, it's acting, so see how it goes. And I remember, like, I was doing it. And then I was like, all respects to everybody else, this is just not for me. I was my peer, the people I looked up to, Kiki Palmer, Naomi Harris, like, they were doing so many different versatile roles. And I believed that for myself. And this wasn't on the path that I wanted for me. Yes, it's a part of my path right now. It helped me and it helped me to grow, but it just didn't feel good when it came out.

I didn't get to celebrate as much as everybody else did because I was being attacked online. And I feel like that was a failure for me because I really allowed those negative thoughts and can't be too hard on myself because I was just a teenager. but I allowed those thoughts that I tried to avoid or that I worked so hard on to not happen I conquered that audition that I failed at. Hey, give up, you shouldn't do it, you're not good. That's a lie, I'm going to keep going.

And now I'm on another path and there's a new level, new devil of negative thoughts and negative things attacking me. So then I had to conquer that. But in that moment, spending a week in my room, not eating, crying, feeling terrible, not loving myself, not feeling beautiful, not feeling good enough. It was to the point where people were calling me anorexic and I didn't even know what that word was until I saw it. And I was like, I eat food. It's just my metabolism. My body is different.

God made my body different. But the kids, like the young people online were really like, she's. She's anorexic, she looks ugly, she looks this, she looks that, she's not pretty, she's not beautiful. Why did they even cast her? So many bad things and I allowed them to win for that week. And then I had to go back to college and that's when another week of torment happened. I went to college and I'd walk in and people were looking at me up and down, people were laughing at me. and I remember like

these are things I never said before I remember like getting my lunch and having nowhere to sit and I was like okay I'm going to go to the drama room and I know upstairs in a drama room there's a room that you go in and it's just dark and I can sit by myself

yeah and I just yeah I just remember like going in there like sitting and like crying and being like this is mad like this is my dream so why do I feel so bad. And then I had to like decide that I had to do it for myself. I had to decide like no matter what anyone says about me, whether they like something I do, whether they, I have to do this for me

because this is my dream. This is my talent. This is something God has given to me and I have to see it through. So I remember like literally by myself eating my lunch, crying and being like, damn. this was meant to be so amazing and it's not. But what are you going to do from this point? It was another like crossroads moment. Are you going to fail? Are you going to accept this moment of failure? Or you're going to pick yourself up and keep going?

And I really thank God that I kept going. Because years later, my peers from that TV show was like, I'm so proud of you. You've achieved so much. And I'm thinking, you have no clue what I went through. You know, not only did I. I not want to portray a character like that, because for me, it wasn't my path. No judgment to anyone else, but it just wasn't for me, but also being bullied whilst doing

something that I loved, you know, something that my acting, shall I say, like portraying a character, being on set, being in front of a camera, those are the things I loved. I was learning. One of the best directors in the industry was directing me, Yander Mage, like I was literally learning and then I just felt like the two were not compatible. My purpose was not meeting joy and I needed to find my purpose and my joy in a character and in a world that was going to elevate me and I was going to celebrate me and no matter what they said I was going to walk away feeling proud. So I remember that that's one of the things I took away from that experience that no matter what happens, when you pick a role, Letitia,

you're going to pick a role that you're so proud of whether people say, didn't like that one or I loved it. Are you proud enough to say, and are you confident enough to say, I picked this because I felt like I was the right vessel, I'm proud of my choice, it's a part of my legacy, that's it. And that's what came out of that experience. Wow. Leticia, that blows my mind.

mind that you went through that pain and now you sit before us as this globally recognized talent and beauty and I'm so glad that you made it through that period of your life and I feel your pain like across the studio like I feel it you've spoken in the past about a period of depression in your early 20s I think it was was this part of that catalyst do you think? It was all like, is that thing again of like the superwoman schema of like something happens, you feel it for a little while, you move on. Back then, you didn't know, I didn't know that there was such thing as counseling or therapy that I could tap into.

So most of the things that I was dealing with, I dealt with them through maybe watching cinema. I would like find TV shows or movies that I could just like get lost in. as an escapism. But yeah, like slowly all of those things kind of like, if you want to call it like compound interest, it just came together. And it was just like this halting moment of like you need to stop because all of these experiences have fed into this lie

that this defines you and you're not where you want to be and your career is not where you need it to be. So you failed. and I was constantly battling that, constantly comparing myself. It became so bad to the point when I even booked a job and I was filming that job and I was in that role, I would be thinking about what's next because it wasn't good enough and I knew something was wrong because how could you not feel like this is good enough? Why can't you be a good steward over what you have right in front of you?

Is it not good enough? No, it's not. is not at Sundance. My film is not a Cannes Film Festival. I don't have a book. I'm not in the blockbuster, hit blockbuster film this summer. I failed. My peers are doing this. That person's doing that. And it just all came together and just came crashing down on me. And then I just felt like I wasn't being the person that I truly was meant to be. I was comparing myself. I was harder myself. I couldn't celebrate myself. and it needed to stop, because if it didn't, it was going to downward spiral and I probably, again, wouldn't be sitting here in front of you. How are you today? Oh, my goodness. Way better.

It's funny, like, when I do these interviews, it reminds me of so much because I still have that mentality of, okay, cool, keep focus, keep going, focus on what's ahead of you or what's in front of you. But doing interviews like this where you would recall things that were part of my childhood or my teenage years or asks me,

hey, what are three things that you want to reflect on that you felt like you failed and you you conquered? It takes me back and it makes me reflect and it makes me really grateful for the progress and the woman that I am today. Everything is still a,

there's still challenges but there's different types of challenges. The challenge now is to maintain what I have and to be better. I still want to grow, but I try to keep it simple for myself. There is no desire for fame because thankfully I've been a part of projects

that have a bigger platform and a wide exposure. And I'm grateful that my artistry can allow for people to trust in me, to come see my work, to sell out my show before I even premiered it, you know, alongside Golda, what's the story that's going to lead you to add to the wall of legacy that you're building with these projects? And that keeps me very peaceful and that keeps me very sane and pure. And pure. There's a purity to it. Sometimes there's an interception of negative thoughts and negative desires.

Whether it be I want more this. You don't need more things. You've been very blessed. And I have to remind myself of that. And the progress as well of being that little girl, being that teenager that got bullied, being that teenager got bullied in school, it's called all types of names. And then your ambassador for product. three years in a row.

It's just like the growth is just so beautiful, but the North Star remains the same. The industry that I'm in, I absolutely still love it, but I still keep it to a distance in terms of the potential that it has to influence me in the wrong way to make me feel like I'm not good enough. In its little ways,

but I try to conquer that by just remaining focused on my purpose. So that's all I'm going to be chasing until I'm old and grey and I'm ready to depart from this earth. My purpose. So that's where I'm at today. I'm that young girl from Tottenham that's still chasing her purpose. Your final failure takes us back to what DW and Ryan were saying when they said you're going to direct one day.

And you made a beautiful short film, Highway to the Moon. But you've put this as your third failure. Why? The process of it, the most recent thing in my life, or the most recent experience in my life that made me feel like I failed until I was proven wrong. I made this film out of the, just a love in my heart. that I have for my friend Naya, just seeing her grieve.

Her brother was stabbed in Finsby Park in 2019, I believe. And I knew him. And I wanted to write something. These thoughts, these images just kept bombarding my mind and I just had to write something to let it out. And it's just developed from 2020 onwards. And I wanted to give it to someone else to do. when I finished writing it and I got the feedback I needed

and I got the commission I needed I wanted to give it to someone else and the producer on it, Stephanie Alexandra, is also like a sister of mine, she was just like, hey, you should direct because there's not a lot of women directing and the way you feel about this project, you're the only one that could do it.

And I was like, are you insane? I've never been behind the camera. I don't know what's what. Yes, I've been doing this for 15 plus years, but I don't know what's what. So I immediately underestimated myself and I immediately felt like there was an imposter syndrome happening. And she just kind of educated me.

She was like, look, you could surround yourself with people who are willing to help you. I help you find that, you know. We'll put a team together and will help you. So I did, I went through the whole. whole process of putting a team together, finding my cast. And every step of the way, it just felt like something was just trying to knock me off this path. Something was trying to tell me like, or force me to give up. And when I say everything, I mean every stage, whether it's the making of it,

adults bickering on set or things going wrong and you have to stay focused whether it's finishing the film and the editors like I don't want to do it anymore out of nowhere you're just like what can't do it anymore here's your hard drive back you're like what you had my hard drive for a month what is going on whether it's the VFX team being like sorry I can't do it anymore

just so many different moments of obstacles and then making the film putting it together and then some of the producers that was just like hey we'll teach you about post production

we'll stay with you then they'll just like doces. Good luck with this. And then feeling like, oh my God, I've made a terrible movie. I've done a terrible job so bad that they don't even want to tell me. And they're just like, hey, we're out. And, you know, I've made choices on my film. I'm like, hey, this person is not the person to score it because they didn't feel like they were passionate. They didn't feel like they cared, but picked someone else. Like, didn't like the way you did that.

We're out. Just, I'm so confused by what I'm meant to be doing as a director. I'm meant to be picking people for the right, for the job. I kid you not, everyone left, except for my VFX supervisor, Reese. I kid you not. And I called him one day and I was like, hey, can I pay you some more to stay? And he was like, why would I want more money? I was like, because I don't know why everyone's leaving me.

Maybe it's because it's a short film and, you know, and he was just like, I agreed to a payment and I'm going to finish. I'm going to be a man of my word and help you. And he stayed with me. My editor stayed to my composer. But I really felt like I failed because I was like, it doesn't make sense why everyone's just leaving. Did I make a bad film? I surely probably did. I remember making the film, finishing the VFX.

and the film was like done and I literally was just like I'm so ashamed of what I've done and I'm not going to put it out I'm just, this was a bad experience and I literally felt like I failed I cried about it I grieved it

I grieved the experience it felt like the worst introduction of being a director ever I was like why would anyone want to do this this is terrible and I don't I don't know what kept pushing me. But I was just like, maybe I'll try a few film festivals.

See who accepts it. Acceptance one, acceptance two, acceptance three. Maybe I'll be brave enough to show my executive producers. Finally showed it to them. My team at We Presents and re-transfer. And then they will come into the screening and they'll look at me and be like, this is a beautiful film. And I'm like, it is.

And they're like, really well done. This is your first film? Really well done. And I'm like, huh? And I show it to my cast and I show it to some of the crew and they're like, wow. And then one acceptance after and next and then getting to BFI and being like, oh, wow. You felt like a failure. Just like how you're ready to pack it in after the online bullying.

And every time you said no, whether it's by forward movement of like submissions, doing little things, whether you, that's like a little protest against the negative thoughts. Yeah. Every time you did that, something greater was on the other side of that moment of quote unquote failure. So there's a pattern here. Life is not always going to be a great, easy, smooth experience. going to be bumps in the road, but on the other side of that, something's awaiting you and you just don't know until you keep going. And that was like a huge lesson this year. So for you to

even invite me onto this podcast and to ask me about what I felt like I learned from in terms of failures is so intricate to my experience this year, especially with Highway to the Moon, because I really felt like I did a, I really felt like something was wrong. And then I'm getting awards and it's getting accepted to the biggest festivals in the world. And I just saw a failure turn into an extension of my talent and an extension of who I am. And I'm excited about, excited about directing again. I found it so striking and so assured and just visually. stunning and moving and all of those things. I also wanted to ask you about grief because it is a study of grief in so many ways

and particularly the alienation around grief. And I'm so aware, and you've mentioned him, he's been a presence in this conversation of the loss of Chadwick Bozeman who was like a brother to you. How much did making Highway to the Moon help you? process that loss. It's such a great question because 2023 I picked the script

back up to do a workshop with young boys in New York and in London and the time frame, the timing of when I needed to go to New York was on I believe like the third

year anniversary or date of my brother's passing and I thought that was going to distract me because it always comes in like waves. I was so wrong that week they were focusing on a loss that they had and we split into groups. I remember one day we split into groups and it was either the day before or the day of my brother's passing And we split into groups and we were talking about grief. And I was trying to hold it together because it's, you know, young boys in front of me and I don't want to fall apart in front of them. But I just saw some of these young men, these young black men, like crying and just processing grief.

One of the actors is also in my film, Victor. And I saw him processing the grief of his little cousin. And then it came around to me. And then I was just telling them, like, hey, like, though I'm here with you, you know, I feel like we're talking about people that we love. We're talking about people that we've lost. And I thought I could get away from it. But now it's, I have to share with you.

Like, this is really painful, you know, and it's a different type of hurt. It's a different type of pain. So as the years go by, it gets a little bit, a little bit gentler on the heart. But it attacks you in different ways. I have a love, hate relationship with grief. I know that it's meant to happen and when it does, you have to let it happen. But it attacks you in a way that is indescribable really. And yeah, like I'm still, I'm currently going through that now with my aunt who is passing and, yeah, I'm doing this play and it's about grief and it's about passing of a matriarch and stuff like that.

So my aunt, I'm so sorry. Yeah, so I'm, I don't know, I'm a little bit afraid that while someone stayed she might pass. I don't know when she is but yeah we tried everything to keep her hair and look after her so

but yeah like a new sense of purposes happening whilst I'm grieving right now of yeah that young girl in Tottenham um

taking over our auntie's camera Letitia I'm so sorry for the grief you're going through and the grief you've experienced and I want you to know that the stories you tell and the meaning you bring to the world

are what keep everything alive they're the stories that help us to see ourselves and to process our grief it's the ultimate act of generosity and it's the ultimate act of bringing meaning to that passing

and I'm so sorry for the pain I really am and I don't know why you've been chosen as this vessel but you're doing amazingly thank you I know the listeners will be proud of you

and I can only imagine how proud your family are of you both your biological family and your brother Chadwick yeah thank you I want to end on like a happier note let's do it let's do it let's do it let's share okay

so you remember when you said when you were going through anxiety and feeling like a failure after Top Boy post that audition you used to watch TV and cinema to help you escape what is your ultimate feel good piece of TV or movie to watch

the one that you watch again and again and we'll never get sick of Oh my goodness Everybody hates Chris but that is a great TV show What about movies But it'd have to be the lovely bones are Sosha Ronan.

The lovely Bose is your feel-good movie. Oh, feel good? Damn it. You said escape. I mean, yeah, escape and grimness. Okay, Juno. Juno is a great one. The best film ever.

Oh, so good. Elliot Page has also been on this podcast. Yep. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, that was a great note to end on. You are completely magnificent.

Thank you. And I am so grateful that a legit Marvel superhero has graced the how to fail. studio. Your inner play called Not Your Superwoman, I beg to differ, you are mine. Thank you so much for coming on How to Fail. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.