How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Mel Giedroyc and AJ Odudu on Body Confidence, Midlife Reinvention and Female Friendship

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

Welcome to the FIRST EVER How To Fail Roundtable - a format we enjoyed so much we might just keep it. Today, Elizabeth is joined by broadcaster, actor, author and comedian Mel Giedroyc, and presenting powerhouse AJ Odudu for a candid conversation about body confidence, midlife reinvention and self-acceptance. Brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant, they discuss navigating public scrutiny, aging, personal experiences of the menopause and the importance of friendship.  Together, they explore how honesty, resilience and everyday rituals can help us feel more confident and comfortable in our own skin. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE:  00:00 Intro 02:39 Mel on body confidence 05:50 AJ on self appreciation 06:53 Freshness and shoot day hacks 09:08 Mel career and live TV 11:46 Screen scrutiny and representation 18:05 Midlife reinvention begins 22:15 The Power of Invisibility 23:51 Slowing Down to Go Deeper 24:58 AJ on Reinvention and Grief 27:32 Daily Rituals as Survival 28:45 Perimenopause Reality Check 30:47 HRT and Finding Relief 33:46 Owning ‘No’ and the Crone Era 35:42 Women Supporting Women Finale 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: Mel: Body confidence, to me, is literally getting closer to the mirror. AJ: We don't worship ourselves and honour our bodies in the way that we should.  Elizabeth: Everything is data acquisition about the thing that went wrong… you can do better next time or make different choices. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Dove Whole Body Deodorant: www.dove.com/uk/collections/whole-body.html Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan   Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] _________________________________________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I never saw a black northern female on the telly. But I just feel it's, as a woman, I'm not going to stop. The fight never stops. It's radical. Having these kind of conversations and opening up things that previously held misplaced shame for whatever reason. This episode of How to Fail is supported by Dove Whole Body Deodorant because feeling fresh all over gives me the confidence I need. Today's episode is a little different.

I've got not one but two fabulous guests joining me. I've got broadcaster, actor, author and comedian Mel Gedroich and presenting powerhouse AJ Adudu. Come on. Hello. Come on. Now, How to Fail has always been about truth-telling, sharing our stories with transparency,

examining the moments we once labelled as failures and discovering what they've taught us. But in this episode, we're exploring three themes that sit at the heart of both this podcast, and Dove's mission. First, body confidence and what it really means to feel at home in our bodies.

We'll talk about personal experiences, the pressure of unrealistic beauty standards, rarely spoken about bodily concerns, the confidence gap many women face, and why ageing visibly and unapologetically can be an act of power rather than something to resist. Secondly, we'll explore midlife reinvention,

from divorce and dating to perimenopause, menopause and shifting identities, this is about the changes women navigate every day and how moments of upheaval can become unexpected beginnings. And finally, we'll talk about the transformative power of women supporting women, why friendship and mentorship will always take us further than competition ever could. Before we get into it, please welcome to the How to Fail Studio Mel Gedroche and AJ Do Dooo. We'll be happy to see you. Welcome back, AJ.

Thank you. And so lovely to have you here, Mel. It's delightful. Is this a round table, guys? Is this what we're doing? Is this kind of like a round table? We are around a table. I've never done.

Literally a round table. It's a round table. I've never done a round table. I feel quite grown up. But in a good way. I'm delighted that this is the first How to Fail Roundtable. Yes. So it's a day of firsts in so many ways.

And I'm so happy that we're talking about these topics. Because so often on how to fail, I regularly speak to women whose relationship with their body has changed and evolved over time. So can I start with you, Mel? What does the term body confidence mean to you? Okay, so I used to do this thing and I still do it, which is really stupid, which is if I'm putting on my makeup, I will often do it from quite a long way away. So the mirror where your fail picture is there

I'll be about here Which is like two metres I know I know Which is and I used to do it when I was a teenager Because I had spots Not like you know Not kind of massive acne But just the old you know spots

And I just couldn't bear The sight of my face So I used to do this kind of far away makeup It's stupid No, no that's heartbreaking So body No it's silly So but what you end up doing

is just doing it really badly because you can't see yourself. Do you know what I mean? So you're doing your mascara and then you go out and you look at it's all, you know, clumpy and all over the place. So body confidence, to me, is literally getting closer to the mirror. I completely relate because just recently I'm 47 and my eyesight has really started playing up a little bit. Yeah. Like one morning I can barely see my phone screen.

The next morning I can spot an antelope in the fields beyond. But with my makeup, my mirror is slightly too. far away, if I'm really honest with myself, but I don't, at the moment, I'm feeling like I don't want to get closer because I sort of don't want to see all of the imperfections or all of the errors I'm making on my face. And I think that's such a brilliant definition, Mel. It's like getting closer to the mirrors, getting closer to you, getting closer to your reflection of your authentic self. And accepting it. And also, I think it's about really enjoying the bits of your body that you actually really like.

I love my ankles, always have done. Yeah, exactly. We're both checking them out now. And they are beautiful. I love the ankles. Really nice. No, I just like them. And I like my left foot.

The right foot needs work. I love my left foot. Why do you love your left foot particularly? Because it's good. It's a good one. This is like a Daniel DeLewis movie, isn't it? The remake, starring Mal Gedroich. So I will put it.

I put my left foot up to an elevated position. If I'm on the sofa, it will go up on a little table, whatever. And I have to do this on my own because people would literally think I was bonkers. But I'll put the left foot up and I'll just go, I like that. Yes. And I like my ankles. Yeah. Thank you very much.

I think it's about focusing on the things you like as well and try not to fixate on the stuff. Because we've all got stuff that we don't like, don't we? Yes. Have you ever had anyone's sense? in here and go, I totally love everything about my body? No. If I were to have, it would have probably been in the first season of how to fail interviewing a straight white man. But since then, I think we've all got so much more acclimatized to sharing our infections

and knowing that that's what makes us unique and it gives us this extraordinary power when we are vulnerable about the things that we often feel aren't as they should be. Actually, that's what makes you uniquely you. Yeah. AJ, can I come to you? Yes. What does body confidence mean for you? And has it changed over time?

It absolutely has. I feel like right now it just means appreciating my body. And on the days that I'm not feeling 100%. You know, some days I actually do think, wow, you look unreal. Yes. Good. Love to hear that. Good.

But then some days I don't feel like that. And those are the days where I have to really lean into. appreciating this amazing body that is getting up and pushing me through a day with many complexities within it and being proud of that body. And we don't worship ourselves and honour our bodies in the way that we should. Appreciating is a really good word actually. And it's also, it's a ruddy privilege, isn't it? Absolutely. To have a body that, you know, touchwood kind of works.

For God's sake, people go through the hell and high water, don't they? with challenges all sorts, you know, to do with their body. So it's, you're right, appreciate it. I think there's so much misplaced shame, particularly for women, around their bodies and their bodily functions. And, you know, I say unapologetically, I'm a sweaty gal. Got sweatier during the perimenopause, ofs. And I think there's a lot of misplaced shame,

particularly when it comes to odour and staying fresh. Yeah. So for women like us, and a lot of our jobs are in the, the public eye or like today they're on camera. How do you feel, AJ, on a shoot day, for instance, where you feel like that might be an issue? What kind of things do you do to make yourself feel confident? I go through the basics, but the basics sometimes on days when you're not feeling your best self or you're not feeling confident are the things that you just have to get yourself through, aren't they? When, you know, there's lights that are extra hot, there's people that you've

never met before, there's other people in the room that you really want to. You really want to be. to impress. I feel like all you can do is set yourself up for success. Yes. I let it all go. And I like, I let it all go. Because our work,

isn't it, is to do with being on show, isn't it? Presenting yourself to other people. I kind of feel when I'm not at work, let it all go. And I like little hacks as well. So I like a,

I do, I like a spray. Right. I like a dry shampoo. Great. I like a spray because I think it's quick. Yes. And I'm not, I'm very happy to talk about that and say, yes, I didn't wash this sleeping bag after the camping trip.

I just gave it a bit of a spray. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's fine. That'll be the episode title. A little sprits. It's all it needs sometimes. A sprits. Yes.

A little all body spray. That's all you need. I actually think taking today, today has been. an inclement day. It's been extremely wet. It's been pouring with rain and yet also extremely clammy on the tube to get here. It's humid. What with the spray and then an air-conditioned tube line we're winning?

Because I do think it's important that we feel comfortable even if our environment isn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Mel, I'm so interested in your brilliant career because obviously you started out, Metsu Perkins at university, did footlights together. did you ever think that you would be on screen? Was that one of your dreams? No. No. It's all.

Our lives together, we're really good pals. We're really good pals. And that's first and foremost. And we were friends before we worked together for years. It's been, let's say, shambolic. And I don't want to sound disingenuous and go, oh, we don't know what we're doing. Of course, you know, we have ambition and we've loved everything that we've done. But we didn't really plan.

anything out. So we just started doing Edinburgh Festival, writing our own material, and we just thought we want to be stand-up comedians, whatever. And then TV just sort of came, came slightly madly from left field. And in fact, I remember we had the same agent at the time, and she phoned us and she said, girls, I want you to go on audition for this show. It's a daytime, lunchtime show and we were just like sorry we're rock and roll

standout comedians we really lovely lovely though that sounds but really I don't think it's quite us we were quite sort of sniffy and she then said you both owe me about five grand

which was true so actually it would be good if you did go and try and get some work because we borrowed off her parents bloody everyone things were not brilliant so we just went along

and just thought, oh, whatever. And then madly got this gig. I mean, it was different. You know, TV was very different then in the naughty 90s. It was much more kind of freewheeling, shall we say. But our first contract was for two weeks. Wow. Channel 4.

That's the amount of faith they had in us. Two weeks. And then, yeah, well, we did two years of that particular show. It was so fun. And it was live. It was live. I mean, you know this, AJ. There's nothing.

Like, amazing. It's the best. Yeah. I mean, it is sweaty pits. That is a certain moment. Anxiety inducing scenario. But it's a beautiful sweat though. It's an adrenalineized sweat, isn't it?

And the fact that it's disposable as well. So you've done it and you can't go back to it. There's no point really analysing it because it's done. And I love that about doing live stuff. I don't know if you feel sane. I absolutely. I couldn't agree more. there's a forward Martian that comes with it.

Yeah. And you just have to keep going. Yeah. Whatever's going down. No matter what. And I love it. Did seeing yourselves on screen change how you felt about your bodies? AJ, can I come to you on that first?

It definitely did make me analyze myself more for sure. I'd be confident about my appearance and what I look like and go out and do this show. And then you hear comments. you get public scrutiny, everyone's all of a sudden got an opinion on your body, on your image, on what you're wearing, on how you sound, literally everything. And so to be honest, yeah, I do feel like it made me nitpick at myself a lot more. But over the years, I have trained myself to be kinder to myself. You know, I felt good in that moment.

I was able to execute in that moment. and yeah, we look back at some things with a questionable, you know, manner. But at the time, I was happy. Yeah, I like execute. I like the word execute as well. That was strong. That was it. Execute.

Yeah. I love that. And so I think whatever makes you feel comfortable in that moment, that's brilliant. But yeah, I feel like. I never watch anything I do. What? Really? And that's the beauty of live.

You can't watch yourself. Yeah. Because you're in it and then it's gone. And you're in it. And then it's gone. But now there's watch back. There's, you know, everything you can watch everything back. But I love watching myself back.

Do you? Do you? Do you? Yeah. I mean, I probably, do you learn? Do you find that you learn stuff? I learn more. You know, all those moments which you think, oh my gosh, that was so awkward.

That awkward silence. And then you watch it back and it was literally a split second. So I think you catastrophize things sometimes in the moment. and then you watch or listen to yourself back and you go, oh, it's fine. So I think it alleviates a lot of stress watching myself back. Additionally, genuinely, I just have never seen anyone like me on TV.

I grew up looking into that window, into that world, and I never saw a black northern female on the telly. You know, I always want to see more representation, but even seeing myself there, I think, oh my gosh, I'm so proud. of little me being the representation that I wish I saw when I was younger. That's brilliant. There is that as well. So wonderful to hear and so empowering.

And in a way, I think you're both coming at it from different angles, but you're talking about acceptance. Like whether you're looking at yourself on screen and nitpicking, but understanding that you had the power to execute, that's a journey of acceptance. And whether Mel, you choose not to look back because you know who you are and you inhabit your body. I like that.

Yeah. I've never thought of it like that. I think both elements are really powerful. But talking of the old sweaty pits on live TV and the fear of any kind of odour, although I'm sure your odour both of you is absolutely delicious. That is why it is brilliant that Duff have got this whole body deodorant which can help women feel confident. And I'm so grateful to Duff for opening up this conversation.

It's not actually a conversation I've ever had before. No, I haven't. Which is wild. When you think that it affects every single person on the planet. Yes. When you say whole body, it literally is. Yes. Whole body and you're in luck, Mel, it comes in a spray.

I like to do that thing. For me, it smacks a little bit of the 1950s. But spraying an area and then walking through it. Yes. Sheat. That's so chic. Is it 50s? Is that a 50s phenomenon?

I don't know when it originated, but I really, I do like it. I like it a lot. I think however you want to apply it to your body to get the pheromones going, do it. Yes. You know? Yeah. But they were walking into it, spraying it on directly. Yeah.

And are we talking on body or on clothes or any way you want? We're talking on body. So if, for instance, like me, I get a very... Needs to touch the skin. Yes. Contact needs to be made. Just around your house. But if like me, you get a sweaty lower back.

Sorry if that's TMI. You can just, you can spray that. Yeah. Downstairsies as well. Yes, dove have a cream that's perfect for intimate areas. A cream? No, we're talking. Why not?

Yes, I believe so. I mean, I've never done that. Again, we're talking about body, not house. I've never done. but I've never gone there. Oh, I need some coffin. Yes, I'm excited for you. This is another stage in our collective journeys.

This podcast is all about speaking the truth, honest, transparent storytelling and embracing our perceived failures to discover what we've learned from them. Every week, I'm lucky enough to speak with some of the most impressive and inspiring people from around the world. But while those conversations are always a joy,

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Let's move on to midlife reinvention. Now, I hate the label Midlife because in the 50s, it had such a different connotation where it felt like once you were 40, you were just sort of, it's exit stage left. That was it. But actually, I think we should rebrand it because Midlife, all of the most interesting, the hottest women I know are all in Midlife. Okay. And I think the idea of Midlife being a fair.

phase of evolution and reinvention is a really interesting and powerful one. And for me, hitting my midlife was a big one because my 30s were a decade of such intense transition. I got married to the wrong person. I got divorced from that person. I tried and failed to have babies. I came to terms in my early 40s with the fact that I wasn't going to be a mother in the conventional biological sense. And all of that definitely had an impact on how I saw myself. but on the other side of it, I feel so much stronger for having got through it. And I think when stuff like that happens and you're forced to strip away your old certainties or your idea of what your life was going to be, one of the things that occurs is that you come

face to face with your authentic self and it's about whether you are going to embody that self or not. And for me, I feel very grateful that I have this chance to live this life. on this side of midlife. Wow. Does the idea of midlife reinvention speak to you, Mel? Yes. I'm curious. What do you think?

When do you think midlife is, actually? Great question, because I feel bad putting AJ in this bracket. No, I actually... When is it? It's you're 38, aren't you? Yeah, I'm 38. And actually, it could be at any time because I think you can reinvent yourself

at any time. Like it doesn't, you don't need to wait until you're 40 or 50 in order to pivot or experience things, you know. Life will throw things at you. Yeah. At any time, there's no real age on that. And I'm so moved by what you've just said, actually. Because I think it's, gosh, you should be so proud of yourself.

Yeah. That you have come face to face with your authentic self and you like your authentic self and you should be proud of yourself and able to inspire so many other people at the same time. Thank you, AJ. It's so wonderful. Can I just say how gorgeous it is

sitting around this table with two amazing women who support women so deeply and also two brilliant interviewers who constantly are asking each other questions and throwing it back to me. It's so lovely. It's really rare quality. Thank you.

That means a lot to me coming from you. So thank you. I would say midlife, for me, in my head, it's like 40 to 55. Yeah. What about you, Ma? So I'm through midlife then, guys. Have you? You're in your crone era.

I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm pure crone, guys. Turned 58 the other day. Wow. It's not about this, but you look amazing. Stop it, gang. You could be 38.

It's kind light in here. Smoke and mirrors. Look, I feel really lucky. I feel really blooming lucky. I've lost a lot of pals in the last five years and family members. This is what happens when you turn 50. So be warned, you know. I mean, obviously we're losing people all the time.

But when you hit 50, it's like freaking dominoes, you know. So just to be here, I feel is such a privilege and to sort of feel I'm working, which is I just feel tremendously lucky about. But I feel it's my due. duty to keep fighting. Yes. And I don't mean that just in terms of a sort of, you know, stiff up a lip, you know, pretend. But I just feel it's, as a woman, I'm not going to stop. Not going to stop.

The fight never stops. Good. You shouldn't become invisible. No. Although I quite like being invisible. I've got to know. I don't want you to disappear. You have to be out there.

I quite like being invisible. I think it's a power. That's interesting. Say more about that. Because people underestimate you and then you can... So back in the day when Sue and I were on TV like a lot, we did, we got a lot of attention and that's very nice and it's very, you know, the old ego gets a bit off, you know, which is a worry. You have to keep that in check.

But that's kind of, you know, that's shifted and that's all good. And it's just quite nice. I think it makes you observe other people more. It's not all about you. It's not all about, you know, what am I doing? And I quite like that. I think that's good. But I don't think that's you being invisible.

I think that's you taking time, acknowledging, reading the room more potentially. Being less selfish. Not necessarily. Say it. Being less of a narcissist. Just say it. I know. I just think being more wise, exactly.

But also slowing down. And slowing down. A bit, but not slowing down as in, oh, I'm not going to work. I'm not going to do the stuff that I use. to do because that ain't going to happen. Touch wood. You know, you say all these things. You never know what's around the corner, of course.

But just, it's a word you used before as well. Just appreciating things more, I think. And actually allowing yourself to enjoy the moment more, rather than rushing onto the next one. Does that make any sense? It makes total sense. And I actually interviewed, back to a name drop, at Dame Emma Thompson recently, Clang,

at the Hay Literary Festival. And she was wonderful. She's 66 now. Unbelievable. She looks incredible. I love the way she's got like that. The hair. She looks incredible.

And she said something very similar about slowing down, not in the sense, as you say, of going down several gears, but having the space to get deeper with the things that are truly meaningful to you. Yeah. And the way that she said it, I was like, God, I really needed to hear that.

Yeah. Because I feel I'm still in the, frenetic building stage of my life where I'm so blessed that lots of opportunities are coming and I want to pursue them all and there's probably a freelance mindset there. If I say no, it's going to go away and so I need to make the most of it. Totally. And it's amazing and also a lot. I'm aware it's a lot.

But I want to put in the effort now so that ultimately, hopefully I will have space to get slower and deeper and wiser and more considered. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, AJ, and reinvention? Do you have a moment or a series of moments that you can look back on and think, oh yeah, that was pivotal for me? Yeah.

When I moved to London at the age of 21, fresh from uni, just full of hope, ambition, nothing bad had happened. So it was great. You know, you throw yourself into opportunities in a way that is so careful. and liberating. You just go for it. You don't care. You know, where you're sleeping, where you're eating.

You're just, you're going to figure everything out. And I really, you know, love that sensibility. But, you know, I feel like when I face my first big griefs, I guess, back in 2013, I lost a job that I adored. I caught a partner cheating on me. It was all so bad. That's like the worst thing that had ever happened to me at that time. I felt like that was a real pivotal moment for me to move forward.

Because actually, at that time, I was asking myself all of the wrong questions in hindsight. You know, what did I do wrong? What's wrong with me? Why wasn't I worthy for this love? Why am I not good enough for this role? And actually, I think the question should have been, what do I do now? How do I move forward? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

what should I do next? And I figured that out over time, but that was a real moment of reinvention, that I didn't even realise that I was reinventing and rebuilding myself at that time. Yes, and sometimes it's not what you did wrong or you being the wrong person, it's them being the wrong person for you

or that being the wrong system for you or a job never having encountered someone, who offers your skill set and so doesn't know what to do with you and everything you're so right is data acquisition if we allow it to be that makes it sound very clinical

but I like it yes everything is data acquisition about the thing that went wrong that you can do better next time or make different choices next time yeah yeah and I think everyone feels that like it doesn't have to be in a

you know a TV career it can be in any job any stage of life any relationship anything that is just not going according to the timeline that we think it should be. But were you aware at the time that that was happening that that's what you were doing? Or is that just with hindsight saying, oh, I did a bit of reinvention then? Or were you saying to yourself, I'm going to reinvent myself?

No, I think it's all in hindsight. This is what I've learned from brutal experiences. Yes. But I think at the time I was just scrambling. Getting through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I felt very heavy, very weighted. Very much like, oh my gosh. Everything. Everything is a chore. And that's why I do even reference, you know, I think we trivialise, you know, brushing our teeth and doing our hair and having a shower and putting on our deodorant and showing up and doing the thing. We trivialize those things.

But actually, when you're in those dark places. Oh, wow. It's vital. Just getting ready is a big thing. It's a big source of confidence. And I don't think it should be underestimated at all. So well put. Those daily rituals, that routine that you can find yourself in again.

Yeah. That gives you that baseline of confidence, even if you don't get out of bed, feeling that. I think it's so important. Yeah, absolutely. It's key, isn't it? Mal, should we talk about menopause? Shall we? Shall we?

Okay. Yes. Now, I think I'm technically perimenopausal, but I might be menopausal. Who knows? Who bloody knows? It's quite odd, isn't it? I mean, AJ, this is your, you're a long way off. You're a long way off, don't you?

As all women do, so it's good to learn. But what's brilliant, though, now is that actually people are talking about it. I'm so grateful to the women who've opened up the conversation. Mariela Frostrop. Devinia McAul. Thank you. Do you know what I mean? It's so cool.

You know, and the fact that men are talking about it as well. You know, you turn on the radio. There's somebody usually talking about menopause. And I just think, yay, really good. It's pretty mad. I would say, also quite long. Yes, that's the thing, isn't it? Because you're in the peri phase for years.

Is that like, tango? years. I mean? Can be. It's one of those esoteric things that we just don't know. I realized that I was

definitely in the first flush literally of perimenopause when I was getting hot flushes at the rate of sort of three every hour. Oh, because I never had that. Oh my gosh. That's so intense.

Was it literally like you wanted to rip your clothes off vibes? Yes. And I remember it's actually when I first started this podcast being recorded visually. And so I would have to come into the studio with a mini fan. And I'd have this intense sweat and clamminess. And I'd have to be really careful about what I wore. I'd have to have like a little

cotton vest on underneath the shirt. And then it would disappear almost as quickly as it arrived. But it was so intense when it happened. But I think this often happens with women. I kind of diminished it as a thing. I was like, it's fine. It's just one of those things. We get through it. We get through it. And eventually I was like, it's actually a bit annoying now. And I'm going to make a booking to go and see my gynecologist, which I then did. And she said, in my experience, women who've undergone fertility treatment tend to minimize their symptoms because they are so used to hormones making them feel dreadful. And I had been through a lot of fertility treatment. And so I just thought, well, that's kind of normal, isn't it?

It's how we feel. She said, do you have any other symptoms apart from the hot flushes? I said, no, I'm absolutely fine. And she's like, what about blurred vision? I was like, oh, yeah. I woke up yesterday and I couldn't read my emails. That's a symptom because there's a sort of dryness in your eyes. Wow.

And then just all over dryness. I was like, I've never had any complaints laugh. And she's like, well, I'll be the judge of that. She gave me a vaginal exam. She said urethra is dangerously exposed. Really? So like then and there, she gave me HRT. And for me, the biodentical hormones have been a lifesaver.

So I've got estrogen gel, I've been fitted with a coil, and within three days, I never had a hot flush again. Wow. So now that's been two years. So now because the symptoms have kind of gone, like I definitely feel hormonal surges still. Yeah, yeah. But am I now menopausal? Who knows? I think you're in menopause when you haven't had a period for over a year.

Yes. Is that right? It is right. But I'm fitted with a coil so you don't get them anyway, so I don't know. Oh, do you not get them? I'm really bad. and all this. Because my mum, God rest her soul, incredible mum, never talked about that.

Ditto. I mean, nothing. Well, that's it. Nothing. But that's like a conversation. I don't really know. I don't really know. I didn't even know that about the coil. You're probably pre-menopausal. Who know? Playing age 39. I didn't know until I was fitted with a coil, to be fair. That's the thing. That's what's so amazing about these conversations.

I actually feel sorry for all of the women, you know, before us, my, my, our mother included, you know, when I speak to my friends about, oh my gosh, like we just thought our mums were being like super moody and it's like, they were going through a big hormonal shift. Yeah. And because no one spoke about it, because, you know, they suppress those feelings as, oh, this is just what we have to go through. They're not getting supported in the way that they should.

Not even from their own children sometimes, you know. It's kind of like, oh my gosh, we just palm them off as people who are just, you know, being fussing. Oh my gosh, what do you mean? It's too hot in the room. It's freezing and all of that. Yeah. And actually, I love these conversations because I feel like actually we can better support one another. Yeah.

For sure. Exactly that. It's radical. Having these kind of conversations and opening up things that previously held misplaced shame for whatever reason. is such a radical and generous act. So I'm so grateful to you too. One of the things that a friend of mine when she was going through menopause,

she had an amazing NHS nurse called Kate. And Kate said to her, you need to stop doing anything you don't want to do. And my friend was like, well, that's, I don't know if I can actually introduce that into my life because I'm the mother of two kids. And there's various things that I have to do and I've got obligations and I've got a job.

But the mindset shift was very interesting for her because I think, again, many of us feel that we need to please others. And my friend just stopped doing as much of that. And as a result, she felt so much better. And I do think that these big life shifts, whether it's menopause or whether it's what you went through, AJ when you first moved to London,

they do offer us this chance to let go of the things that no longer serve us and reinvent ourselves and our future. I like that. I like that. I think saying no is saying, saying no to stuff is a really empowering thing. There's me like, God, you know, I've got so many offers. No, no offers at all. But, no, but actually not overdoing, not overdoing it

and really just being clear about what you want to. It sounds really obvious, but I think I used to just like say yes to everything. Yeah. Because you feel you have to or that it'll all be taken away or whatever. But maybe that's the thing about getting into Crone, Crone territory saying no. Well, yeah. And you're confident.

You become more confident in yourself to say no to certain things. And be confident that you'll be fine. Yeah. Something else will come. Yes. And it'll be better suited. We come from a place, come from a place of abundance. Yes.

Yeah. By the way, I did mean crone as a compliment. No, I love crone. Yes, it's great, isn't it? I love crone. Bring, I'm totally, I'm owning. Own the crown. Own the crone.

Own the crime. There's a podcast idea right there. Okay. Let's move on to our final theme, which is the one that has been encompassing everything that we've been talking about, women supporting women. Now, I started my podcast production company Daylight because I specifically felt that there was a gap in the top of the podcast charts,

which were dominated by white middle class men talking to each other about each other. And I wanted to create a bit of. space that elevated diverse and female voices. And I think I wanted to do that because I have learnt so much from the women who mentored and supported me. I get so much power and love from my female friends. I think friendship actually has been the most consistent and long-lasting love of my life. Oh, thank God for female friends. What would we do without them? I don't, I actually don't know. I genuinely do not know. You've spoken about your friendship with Sue, but are you one of those people? Do you have lots of friends or do you have a core group of?

I really love the gang. Whatever gang it is, I love being in it. Do you know what I mean? Whether that's a gang on a show that you're on and you have your sort of your family. So I would say friends wise, I've got sort of like different gangs of mates. I mean, the real besties I've known since I was 11, you know, they're my school, the school pals who just. know you so well, don't they? And they know your authentic self, as you say.

They don't give a flying monkeys about the job that you do. You're just you. Do you know what I mean? Definitely. Teasing is merciless and very consistent and very funny. Do you also mean? Those are the kind of friendships that I really... And working with one of your best friends, working with Sue.

Yeah. It's a treat. Yeah. Was it ever, have there ever been tricky moments that you have navigated and has made your friendship stronger as a result? Or has it all just been? That's really, that's really interesting. It's, I suppose when I got married and had kids, that was definitely a moment. Because it had just been like, it's like a marriage being in a double act.

It just is. You go through absolutely everything together in a very intense way. And I think when I got married and had kids, that was definitely a point in my early things. 30s when it was like, oh, okay, things are going to, they are, they're just going to be a bit different. But interestingly, coming back in our sort of 40s and into our 50s, we're sort of coming back together. That's lovely.

In a really nice way. Not that we were ever totally separated, but, you know, Sue had things she wanted to do and I had stuff that I wanted to do and had to do. It's all this idea of sort of evolution and the best relationships, whether they're romantic or Protonic, allowing each party to change and become who they're meant to be. AJ, I'm obsessed with your mother and we spoke about your mum when you came on How to Fail and did your solo episode. But how much has your mother and have your sisters taught you about women supporting women?

Everything I know about female confidence and support is as a direct result of how I've been raised in Blackburn. My mum has, yeah, always raised us as the girls in the house to be strong and fiercely independent, but also to value the beauty in others, especially in a world, and knowingly in a world where women are quite often pitted against each other. There's a real sense, particularly in certain industries, that there's only one seat at the table for this one type of person. I have really had it installed in me that that is not the case. And actually, you know, together you can build absolute mountains and you can, you can really break down barriers if you stick together. And, you know, I've always stuck with my family as a result. They

I install a lot of beauty and confidence into me. And it allows me to, you know, push that confidence in other women out there, knowing full well that just because, you know, your beauty, beautiful and talented, it doesn't diminish my beauty and it doesn't diminish my talent and what I bring to the table as well. Yes. There's room for more of it. Always. More of it. It's weird, actually, in comedy. I think when Sue and I started doing comedy particularly in the 1990s,

we felt very much that there wasn't a kind of a community of female comics. I mean, we had French and Saunders and the people who'd gone before us who were just majestic and who were brilliant and our mentors. But as a community, we just felt like there weren't that many people. But now it's not perfect, but there are so many more women doing comedy. And there's a real sense of community there and they do support each other. I do think that's absolutely lovely. Yeah, that's something that I found in podcasting.

There's such a great community spirit. And I've made such brilliant friends through podcasting. And it's been so refreshing and lovely and it's taught me a lot because I am Gen X essentially. Like some kind categorizations put me in as an elder millennial, but I'm Gen X. And you're right, Mel, that there was, this sense of scarcity and fear that we were raised in, that there wasn't enough. And I had a cup of tea yesterday with a good friend of mine who is also an author. And I was chatting to her and this slight bitterness crept into my conversation

where I was talking about how I wish I was on the New York Times bestseller list with my books and how it never seemed to happen for me, but it happened to all of these other people. And she said, yes, but I think if it happens for them, then it makes it more likely that it's going to happen for us. And all we have to do is cheer them on and work hard and be ready for when that moment happens for us. And it really opened my eyes. Yeah, that's great. It was so good, wasn't it?

Yeah. There's nothing worse. I was thinking about this at the weekend. I was talking about envy with my sister-in-law, who I adore. And there's nothing worse than feeling envious. Actually is there. It's such a horrible. It's horrid.

And we all get it, don't we? We all get it. But, God, I try and work hard just. to not, because it's such a nasty feeling. Yes. It's a nasty feeling, but it's a natural one. And it's one man I shouldn't beat yourself up too much about, but it's really nice that you've got a great friend there to just reframe it quickly in your mind

and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't go down this road. It's not going to do you any favours. Yeah. And actually, you know, that's it, that abundant mentality, you know, the more that we see women achieving and doing incredible things, the more likely, those incredible things are going to trickle down to us. Definitely. I mean, my experience today, talking to you to amazing people,

has been so inspiring and stimulating and radically honest and supportive and all of the best things about womanhood. I just can't thank you enough. Oh, it's pretty lovely. Thank you. Does that mean you're wrapping it up? I am wrapping up, but listen. I can't bear that.

We're just starting. We'll turn the mics off, but we can carry on chatting. But any final thoughts before I do wrap up? What will you take from today, AJ? Confidence is a thing that we have to practice all the time. We still need to appreciate ourselves and that will roll out into appreciating others. And I do appreciate you too and the conversation that we've had today.

So thanks for having me. Oh, thank you for being here. Thank you. It's been lovely. I was going to say the word appreciate. It's a real crack of that. It's a gentle one, but it's also real strength, hasn't it? Yeah. Appreciating.

And also, I will get closer to the mirror. Wonderful. We appreciate and we execute. Yes. And what was the data one? Data. All failure is data acquisition. We acquire, we appreciate, we execute.

What a great note to end on. And I just want to end by thanking Dove so much. Mel Gedroich, AJ Adudu, thank you so, so much for coming on. on How to Fail's first ever roundtable. Love it. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much for listening and watching.

This episode has been brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodrent, available at major retailers in store and online. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day in Sony Music Entertainment, original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.