How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Michelle Yeoh - On typecasting, fertility and THAT Oscars speech

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Michelle Yeoh has created a legendary body of work that defies easy categorisation. You’ll know her from cult classic Kung Fu Cinema, Everything Everywhere, All At Once - the film that made her the first Asian woman to be given the Academy Award for Best Actress at the time. She was cast as a Bond girl in Tomorrow Never Dies, then starred in the global box office hit Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and the brilliantly chilling future mother-in-law in Crazy Rich Asians. This month sees her returning to the role in Wicked, as Madame Morrible. In person she is warm and engaging, with a fascinating story to tell. We talk about why mistakes help us grow, why she felt like a ‘failure’ for not having children (something we have in common), stage fright - and how she almost quit after a life-threatening stunt injury. Plus: racism, typecasting and why her mother is the REAL diva. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 01:16 The Journey to Hollywood 02:36 The Role of Family 03:52 On Playing Iconic Roles 08:10 Facing Personal Challenges 24:20 Think Wider: Breaking Family Expectations 25:38 Pursuing Dreams: From Ballet to Acting 27:16 The Hong Kong Film Industry: Early Challenges 27:33 Breaking Stereotypes: Women in Action Films 34:25 Hollywood's Limitations: Typecasting and Minority Roles 37:30 Facing Racism: The Ongoing Struggle 39:22 Stunt Accident: A Turning Point 47:57 Resilience and Reflection: Lessons Learned 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: When you're down, you learn. You become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. Don't wallow in them. I truly believe ups and downs are like a heartbeat. You can't just [go] one way. Right? That would be a flatline. I believe in always moving forwards, because if you stay still you're just stagnant and you're just waiting for the inevitable. An act of kindness or compassion goes a long, long way in our world and we are in so desperate need of that. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Wicked: For Good is in cinemas from 21st November Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ 📚 WANT MORE? Sharon Horgan - on quitting art college and drama school, the impact of divorce and being in her 50s https://link.chtbl.com/hR7kycoN Andrew Scott - on childhood failure, not finishing university and heteronormativity https://link.chtbl.com/18dVhMb_ 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Elizabeth and Michelle answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: howtofailpod.com Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're down, you learn, you become resilient, you become stronger and you learn from mistakes. Don't wallow in them. I held my arms out like that. Luckily I had a big gown on and I'm like, oh my God, I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared. Yes. Hello and welcome to How to Failure. This is the podcast that believes that failure shows us who we truly are and what we're really made of. Before we get started on this conversation, please do remember to subscribe and follow so that you never miss a single episode. I know from experience that starting your own business can be super intimidating and can feel really isolating. So I empathise with those of you who are currently feeling that way. However, I've got a tool for you that can simplify everything and

make you feel less alone. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US, from household names like Mattel to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready-to-use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business. idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one pound per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com.com.uk slash fail. Go to Shopify.com.com.uk slash fail. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in

data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk. Business. Michelle Yo has created a legendary body of work that defies easy categorization, from cult classic kung fu cinema to blockbuster bond flicks, and Oscar-winning sci-fi leads. In fact, it was her turn as a harassed laundry owner in 2023's Everything Everywhere all at once that made her the first Asian woman to be given the Academy Award for Best Actress.

At the time, Yo said in a moving acceptance speech that, for all the little boys and girls who look like me watching tonight, this is a beacon of hope and possibilities. Her story began 63 years ago in Malaysia where she was born surrounded by mountains and nature. Her first love was ballet, which she learned from the age of four, before going to England to attend dance school in Chester at the age of 15. A spinal injury put paid to her dreams of turning professional.

But back home, her mother entered Yo into the Miss Malaysia competition, which she won. From there, she made the leap into action movies, movies, literally. With her impressive physical prowess, Yo performed her own stunts opposite the legendary Jackie Chan, including landing an aerial motorcycle jump onto the top of a speeding train in 1992's Supercop. She was cast as a Bond Girl in Tomorrow Never Dies, then starred in the global box office hit Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. For many of us, Yo will also be best known for her performances as Eleanor, the chilling future mother-in-law in crazy rich Asians,

and as Madam Morrible in the Wicked films, this month sees her returning to the role in Wicked for Good. In her seventh decade then, Yo is as busy and in demand as ever. Her continuing and well-deserved success recall something else she once remarked. With every turn, with every twist and And with every role, I simply said, why not? I will commit totally. I will do my best. I will be brave and unafraid of failure. Michelle Yo, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you for having me. And what a title, How to Fail. Normally people go for how to be the most successful, the most rich and this and that. And it's like, how to fail. Were you surprised when you got the request to come up with these Yes. I was like, is there really a program called How to Fail? But actually, it's so important

because you really have to be brave and not afraid to fail because otherwise you live through life being, doing nothing. Exactly. Well, failure helps you grow because otherwise you never take the risk. And I am so honored to be sitting opposite you. I really am. Having followed your career as a fan, having watched your Oscar's acceptance speech and cried. with your words and also having followed some of the things that you've said about failure over the course of your life, it feels magical to be in your presence. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. How is it being back in the world of Wicked? Is it as much fun to film as it looks to us as viewers? Oh yes. Is it? Oh my God, yes. And actually, Wicked, while we were

filming wicket, it gave me a solid foundation of love and serenity, because that was the time when we were campaigning for the Oscars with everything everywhere all at once. So I was flying between New York and L.A. and London back and forth, back and forth for all the... And it is, it is a huge thing to believe in your movie and support each other with my cast members, And then when I came back, it was just like straight into the loving arms of Cynthia and Ariana and Jeff and Jonathan. And you go like, oh, I'm okay. Yeah. I'm back here.

I'm with my family, my wicked, wicked family. And even though I was the wicked Madam Morrible, they still loved me. I was going to ask you that actually because you're so good at playing meme. You're so good at playing mean. And now having met you, even within five minutes, you seem like the most beautiful, lovely person. And when you're playing mean with people who are your friends in real life. Oh, it's fun. It's fun.

It's so much more fun because, you know, you get to do all these crazy things. But I do say to, I do ask John. I'm like, why do you think Michelle Yo when you think someone mean? And, you know, I remember when we were doing crazy rich Asians where I played Eleanor, the mother, right? And he said, your eyes turned black when you said to her you'll never be enough. Like, John, seriously. And of course, he calls me horrible. See, you see, you think I'm horrible?

He's like my adopted son. I love him to death. So that was an incredible journey. And there was also humor in it. I think that was what I truly loved about. John's focus on each character had their moment of emotional depth. But at the same time, there was always a little bit of fun and humor. And it comes across.

You know, so going on that set is just, that's always singing. Well, I was about to ask you about the singing because you were very reticent at first to say yes, weren't you? Because you knew you'd have to sing. Yes, I called, John and I said, hello, this is a musical, right? And you know, I don't sing, right? And the next thing I knew, he sent a video of, he says, I have two special friends who wanted to say hello to you, and they want you to, well, listen to them. So it was Ariana and Cynthia. and we had not met before at that point.

And they said, Michelle, it's imperative that you come and join us now. I mean, how do you say no to Ariana and Cynthia? Exactly. But I must say my first singing experience was really supported and encouraged by Cynthia. She really, really helped me out there. Because, you know, when you hear them, they're like angels. And so then when we were doing our song together, The Wizard and I, and thanks to her, I'm actually on Billboard 100.

Oh, you? Yes. Because Cynthia's song got on there and I did a little intro with her, right? And so when we were singing it, and the girls always sing life, even though Cynthia is like how many feet in the air and doing somersaults, she is singing life. She's amazing. And I remember when I start the song,

I literally just squeaked it. Because, you know, we had recorded it and just to give you a sense of comfort. And Cynthia came up to me and he goes like, she held my hand and she said, she looked at me and she said, I know you can do this. You know, I've heard you sing.

So please sing. So, you know. I listened to her. We are so grateful to her and to you. Oh, yes. I'm grateful to her. I wonder if we could talk about your mother. Oh, my God.

That's a real character there. I mean, she is the real diva here. I mentioned in the introduction because you had this experience very early on of failure, actually, when you were 17 and you thought you were going to be a ballerina, but you had an injury. And it was your mother who entered you to Miss Malaysia and sort of changed the course of your career. How important has your mother been to you? Well, she's a force, you know, full stop. I mean, she is very dynamic.

She's 84 now. But if you saw a photograph of her, you'd think she was like in her early 70s. And she's always glamorous, always dressed up. And she would look at me, you're like, are you going out like that? I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to the gym, mom, you know, seriously. And she's always been like this just reminding

you to look your best, be at your best and all that. And sometimes I think it's good to have that, but sometimes it also makes you, I was a people pleaser. You know, I was afraid to do things or say things that might sound wrong or sound right. And it undermined your, you would think that it would make you more confident, but actually it undermines it. Yes. Because every time you're going like, oh, I don't look right. I, you know, for fear of sounding not smart enough or something like this. But I also feel that, you know, with Asian parents, especially moms, they try to have their children be seen and not heard.

And we will always, you know, the girls should behave like girls, like, you know, not make loud noises and things like that. But so my mom instilled that in us. And it took me a while to go to her and say, actually, it's not true. You know, we can speak our minds. And we don't always have to agree with what everybody else is saying. And it is important that I believe in myself in that way, rather than just say yes, because, you know, that doesn't rock the boat. I think she would have made the perfect diva.

She would have made the, she sings beautifully. She would have been a great actress. When did you find your own voice and the courage to say that to your mother? How old were you? Oh, I was, I think at that time, I think I was getting my divorce. Okay, yes. Because, you know, she's very traditional. And she was going like, no, no, no, you should just listen to your husband. And I'm like, no. I'm like, okay, if you love him so much, why don't you marry him? This is your first husband.

Yes, Dixon. Well, perhaps get onto it a little bit as it pertains to some of your failures. But one of the reasons I was so looking forward to meeting you today is because we have a story in common. I also got divorced and I also tried and failed to have children. Ah, then we have something a lot in common in that way. And I feel so grateful to you for talking about that particular story because you can only understand it if you've been through it. Yeah, yes. Yes.

And my mom didn't understand that at that point. So, you know, so it did. And I think it's something that you, first of all, you have to be brave enough to accept and not feel like a failure. And at that point in my life, I did feel like that. I did feel like, you know, I'm supposed to do one thing women, all women are capable of. Why am I not?

Why have I been singled out to, did I do something wrong? And, you know, we, we, and that's the thing is like, mom put the fear of karma into you, you must have done something wrong. You didn't do this right. So that's why you're paying for this in that way and this way. And you go like, no, stop because I don't believe that. And if I did something wrong in my past life, I hope I paid for it then.

Yes. Right. And so, but we do believe that, you know, good will pay forward with good. So at that point, I did feel like a failure of a woman, you know. It's like one of the most natural things for women to be able. able to do. And I think when you come to accept the fact that it's not your failure, you know, we all have different physicalities, but some are very, very different indeed. And it shouldn't be a feeling of loss in that way. So finding yourself and believing that, you know, you can move

forwards because nowadays, I was very lucky. My sister-in-law said, here, have one of my children. And I'm like, okay, guys, stay back. And then my best girlfriends, they were like, so now I have six got children, you know, at that point. They were all sharing their children with me. And I think from there, I learned love in another form. Right. It's like, how did you cope with yours? Well, so beautifully put, I think I've realized that you can feel sadness and be at peace with that sadness and that the sadness is part of life that actually it's taught me so much and my life is so fulfilled in so many ways and I decided to start concentrating on the love that I did have rather than the love that I didn't although I thought I wanted and yearned for

so I've got married again like you he has three children I have lots of God children I have nieces and a nephew so there are so many children in my life right and in this lifetime I believe that part of my purpose is not to have children in the biological sense, but to mother in other ways. Right. Yes, yes, I believe that. I think you open your hearts in another way. I think when you are just a mother to your own child,

it becomes a very sort of overprotective, empowering, almost selfish kind of love that you share with only one. Maybe it was a good lesson in the sense that now I share that one love with so many others and we now have a grandson. Yeah. What's that like being a sort of step-grandmother? I don't see, because I get on very well with my stepson. I actually call him my boyfriend.

Do you? He goes around introducing, oh, that's my dad's wife and my girlfriend. Everybody goes, that's amazing. You just say girlfriend? This is a whole other podcast. So we get on very, very well together. and I'm very blessed to have that kind of relationship. I think the most important thing is what I feel is like he sees that I love his dad

and, you know, for who he is and what he is and it's vice versa. We're both very independently, independent, we're both successful in our own ways. And so, you know, and there's no, I think sometimes in a relationship, there shouldn't be any rivalry, you know, who's better than who, you know, why are you more successful or, you know, better known, blah, blah, blah. So in that way, we're all very comfortable in who we are because we all have had failures, you know, and learn to live with it. I truly believe ups and downs is like a heartbeat.

You can't just have one way, right? That would be a flat line. Yes, you wouldn't be alive. Exactly. That's such a great metaphor. Yeah. So, you know, it's important to, you know, when you're down, you learn. You become resilient.

You become stronger and you learn from mistakes. Don't wallow in them, you know. Move forward. I believe in always moving forwards because if you stay still, you're just stagnant and you're just waiting for the inevitable. I used to get so anxious about holidays and travel. Time off is precious and I'd always worry about wasting it by booking the wrong place. ending up in disappointing accommodation or missing out on what really makes a destination special.

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Visit explore.com.uk. And like 98% of Explore's customers, I guarantee you'll be back for more. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is Oscar-winning actress Michelle Yo. We talk about stunts, stage fright, and how being the first Asian women to win the best actress Academy Award meant so much to so many. Plus, there's this.

Oh my God, I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared. Yes. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts. Well, talking of moving forward, let us move forwards to your failures. Your first failure, well, I appreciate about them. They were just very straightforward, no context. And I can't wait to find out more.

Because the first failure is stage fright. How did you discover that you had stage fright? Oh, very easily. Every time I have to go on stage to make, okay, I loved dancing. So if I had to perform on stage, it's not a problem. It's speaking on stage. And it is something, unfortunately, I have not overcome. So that's why I still see it as a failure.

It's like, no, it's a little bit of a stage fright for fear. of not coming across as being a little bit intelligent or funny or something like that, you know, or not saying the right things. So rather than, okay, I rather than not say anything and be like a wallflower. Well, let me reassure you that you're coming across exceptionally. But I'm aware that you're speaking in a second language. So do you still have stage fright in your native language? Hell yes. Right. It's just about being on the stage and suddenly, I remember, I think it came out very clearly when I received my Golden Globes. Are you allowed to swear?

Yes, I welcome swearing. I love swearing. Golden Gloves was the first big nomination for me personally as an actress by your own, by your peers, right? Just to get the nomination was you were so blown away. And you think, I mean, at that point, we all just went, just to be nominated, I'm already over. the moon, right? And you don't have expectations, even though you pray quietly, right? And then you think, oh, shoot, if they really actually call my name, what the hell, man? I'll be so scared to go up on stage. So when they did call my name, I walked up on stage and suddenly you, y'all, everything goes

zing, I forget my name, I don't know what I'm there for. And the first word that came out of my mouth was, shit. And then I realized everybody went, oh, like that. And then I turned around and I go, oh, my God, you're not supposed to say that. Then I turned back around and said, fuck. So that was my big intro.

And how I realized, you still have stage fright. And then it's constant because even when I go on press tours and things like that when you have to go on stage, and when they say, say a few things, say something like that, I would agonize, like the night before I won't be able to sleep, just because I know I have to go on stage. So you prep yourself, you keep prepping yourself, prepping yourself to make sure just to say that one or two sentences without, my heart goes, and one time it was hysterical. I held my arms out like that. I had a big gown on.

And I went, oh my God, I was sweating. It was just dripping because I was so scared. Yes. Well, how did you cope with the Oscars then? Not well. Do you saw? Oh, you're so beautiful, though. I love that speech.

It was me. I would never have known. I think it's because it came from here. It really did. From your heart. First of all, of course, Asians that would come up and say, You've got to win this for us. You've got to win.

And then you're standing there, go like, I will try my very best. I don't know how I got it, but, you know, I hope. And it really resonated to me how much it meant, not just to in America, but globally to Asians. I know. It's so beautiful, Michelle, because it's also the role you played. was so special in that respect as well for so many reasons. Yeah. It's so rare that a woman of a certain age, Evelyn, who owns a laundromat, who is a Chinese-American immigrant, gets to be a lead.

Exactly. Yeah. Right? I mean, when we, that's true. I mean, she is, if you go into Chinatown in any of the major cities, they're there everywhere. They're not seen. They're not heard. They're not actually given any attention, you know.

They're almost like voiceless. And at that time when they had the China hate thing, it was like, this is wrong. How do you, you know, just do that to another fellow human being? So it was very interesting. And I think what it was very important at that time was like, these immigrants have been in America forever, right? That's what America is made of, immigrants. Yes, that's how it is. And to be able to tell a story that is about not just a period piece, not like Crouching Tiger, where it, you know, not like Shogun, not like something like that, where it's about the periods past, gone, long past.

But today, that's so relevant to all of us to be included, to be seen, to be embraced for our differences. And that was indeed very, very special. And I remember when the Daniels, when they wrote the script, she was called Michelle Wang. And the first thing I said to them, no, you do not call her Michelle. Because Evelyn, she is her own person. And she deserved to be seen and heard as who she is. Because every time you say Michelle, you would think of, oh, is Michelle Yo trying to do this as another person? And I always believe that that is how we should take that approach, is that we have to be honest.

We have to be brave enough to say, well, you know, some people might not like it or appreciate it, but guess what? It's a reality, it's a fact, and we should see it. If you don't see it, you will never understand it. So, so powerful. I'm very, very. Now, I felt it too. It's so moving hearing you speak about it. I wonder if I could take you back to growing up in Malaysia, surrounded by this beautiful nature, did you always feel, did you have an instinct that your life was going to be meaningful in some way?

I always felt love. I always felt happy. Malaysia is a very beautiful country in the sense that it is very multiracial. So to be honest, when I was growing up, we grew up with. Chinese, with the Malays, with the Indians, with the expats. So we embraced our different cultures. We celebrated all our different cultures. So when I was growing up, I'd never thought that one day I would be on the silver screen. My mother is, my mother again, she was a big factor in the why I love movies so much. Because as a child, we would go to all kinds of movies, like Indian movies, Malay movies, Chinese movies in all the different languages, horror stories.

Like I grew up with Dracula, okay? I think she traumatized me. And as I was watching the screen, I never thought one day that's what I want to do. I want to be able to do that. It never crossed my mind. I was very single-minded in the fact that I wanted to do ballet. I wanted to be in the world of dance. I wanted to have my own school.

I would go back to Malaysia, I come from EPO, this very small mining city, and start my own, have my own school. So that was my dream at that point. You know, I'm a small town girl. But my dad, he made us think wider. He made us think beyond the borders. He made us believe that, you know, the most important thing is education in his mind. But he never limited us to say he's a lawyer by profession, that you have to be a, I think a lot of, especially for Chinese Asian families, you have to be a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, you know, an academic, something that is stable. Then you don't have to worry about making money and, you know, you'll be able to pay the rent or, you know, have a stable life.

and he whatever you want to study it's your choice because at the end of the day it's your life and at that point even during my divorce he was the one

who stood up for me and he turned around and say no if he is not the right man for you and he doesn't appreciate you the way he should and it wasn't

Dixon's fault or my fault but it was just a reality of the situation as such and my dad was like, this is your home, you know, whatever you decide to do is your choice. And so he always instilled that in us, even as a child. So I went, oh, then I want to go to England because ballet was from the Royal Academy of Dawn's, right? It's from England. And so my dream was like, I want to go

to England to see it for real, to the Royal National Theatre to do all that. And he goes like, Okay. And in fact, when I was offered a contract in Hong Kong, after all the injury, going back to Malaysia, winning the title, and then I still wanted to go back to England. And then I was offered to do a commercial with Jackie Chan in Hong Kong. And while I was there, the film company offered me a contract. And I was 22. You know, I thought, no, my parents were definitely not. not, I think they would not agree because I would be by myself there. I held a contract in my hand for like two days. I was like, how do I go to my dad and say, I would like to try this? Because it's not a subject that I studied. I've never been in a movie before. I've never, I didn't study it.

In the end, you know, you gather up all the courage. And it's like, what's the worst thing that can happen? No. Right? No. Okay. So I went to him and the, and he looked at the contract. The first thing he said, oh, this is like a slave contract.

Then I said, that's why I need you, Dad. But he didn't say no. He turned around and said, when do you want to go? So that's how I started my career. That's how it all started. Yeah. Well, you started this career. You were casting this commercial with Jackie Chan.

Then that led onto your movie career. Correct. And that brings us onto your second failure, which actually is a sort of failure of a system, which is that you kept being offered very, very stereotypical roles in Hollywood. In Hong Kong at the beginning. Okay.

Tell me about this. It's similar, I think, everywhere, you know, how they put all of us women in a certain box, especially. And in Hong Kong at that time, action movies were predominantly all about the guys and saving the damsel who are in distress. And then you sit there and you go like, why do I need saving? What is it about that? It's so, it's okay, it's heroic for the guys, but for us, it's kind of boring.

And I was very fortunate. There was some smart, successful woman in Hong Kong and the business. And they all turn around and say, it's true. You know, we bring a girl who is not from Hong Kong, and yet you want to put her in the box exactly like how we put all the other of our girls. So then there's, and I said, I would love to try action. because the first movie, I played the damsel in distress. I watched the guys, you know, do their stunts and action sequences,

the incredible Samo Hong and George Lamb. And then I realized this is very much like dance, it's choreography, it's movement, its speed, it's the dynamics of the body and all those kind of things. So then when I said that, I think the company was also, it was a budding, it was new, fairly new company. And so they were also trying out things. Hong Kong, in that golden era of filmmaking, it was action movies, comedies were the biggest hits. So my Chinese, my Cantonese, and I don't read Chinese at all. So I didn't, how could I do

comedy without being able to say the language? So I felt that my physicality would be something I could tap on to give me a leg up, you know, find a way rather than be the damsel in distress. That was my key point. And so they said, okay, we'll let her try. If it doesn't work, we'll put her back in the box. You're so cool. So then what was it like working with Jackie Chan? What was the best piece of advice Jackie Chan gave you?

No. Jackie is, he's a little macho. You know, he really believes that women needs to be protected. So when we did our movie together, he was always going like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't let her jump on the motorcycle, because partly, which, to be fair to him, when I took that motorcycle and jumped on the train. One of the most legendary stunts of all time that you did yourself. Now I would never do it again.

I mean, at that time, we did stunts that when we were dubbing the movie in English, I go like, ow, what was I thinking? And you're hanging in the side of the van, it was for real. And the number of times the near misses, the cars come at you at that point. And because Jackie was thinking, if you do this, I have to do that just to be on the same. And it's true, right? After all, he is poor Jackie. So I always tease him. It was like, well, I'm doing it.

You made it difficult for him. Why should I make it easy for him? Exactly. So that was just the early days of your career. Then you were known as Michelle Khan, is that right? Yes. And then you got cast in Tomorrow Never Dies. And I hear that Barbara Broccoli gave you advice.

Yes, yes. It was really funny. She was, I was on holiday in Italy. And so Barbara said she will come and meet me, have a first meet. And she's, I love this woman to death. She really is such a champion for women. I was traveling with a group of friends. And my surname is Yo, right?

So she went to the desk and said, okay, Michelle Khan. And they go like, can't what? who? So for the longest of time, she went through all the, so she checked, she Googled it was King, Khan,

because my Chinese name is Yo, Chu, King. And we always put our surnames first, which is yo. In England, they would put

Chu King, Yo, right? So when I was studying here, I didn't have Michelle. My friends called me Chu, which is short for

Chu King. Choo was easier. They'd be like teasing me going, So everybody knew my name and remembered it. So finally, we found each other. And when I eventually got cast to play Way Lynn in Tomorrow Neverdice, and Barbara and I have become fast and firm friends from then.

And she said, what's all this nonsense about Khan? It's not even your name. Why would you have that name? And I go, well, because I was advised when I was in Hong Kong, because in Hong Kong they call me by my Chinese name you know Ji King but once the name had to go on the posters

for Europe and for elsewhere for distribution outside of Hong Kong when they put Yo Chu King everybody goes like what is this actually okay sidebar I am so proud of my Korean friends who have stuck to their

Korean names you know kudos to you because that's your identity that's who you are But, you know, when I was first in Hong Kong, I had to listen to advice from people who have been in the business, who are in the marketing field. And so then we said, how about King? But King, no, that doesn't sound like your name. Yo.

I said, yo is the one syllable. How difficult it is, is it? It's just that when you look at it, a lot of people go like, yeah. And I go, oh, my God. They really destroy my name. So that's why they said, okay, let's have a Chinese sounding. Khan, right? So I was like, okay, because you never get to

go to Europe to promote your films at that time. It was all focused really mainly in Asia. And it was for the first time I saw my name and it was next to this voluptuous woman with long, wavy hair, looking very Caucasian, actually. Didn't look like me at all. And that was my name, Michelle Khan. And I'm going like, oh, because they,

had to market it in such a way that it was attractive. What a strange experience for you. Oh, yes. But, you know, I think at that point, the people who were marketing the film, they wanted to be included, they wanted, that was the best way to sell the movie. Different times. Oh, thank God those things are over. Thank goodness. Tomorrow Never Die is one of my favorite bomb movies, and you reclaim your name on the advice of Barbara Rockley.

But then what happened after that? Because the roles you were then being offered after Tomorrow Never Dies, pigeon told you, didn't they? And for two years, you didn't accept any of them. Yes, you're right. Because, you know, after a Bond movie, you would imagine. And yes, a lot of things come your way. But at that point in Hollywood, it was still, how many faces do you remember of that era?

That was maybe the last. Emperor. And then the Joy Luck Club, which was more than 30 years ago, that had, you know, I mean, the people who really did very well was like Lucy Liu, because she's amazing. But it was so far and in between. So the roles that Asian actresses, or looking like me, or actors even, were offered. Because that was the first time when it struck me, suddenly I was a minority. I never, growing up in Malaysia, going to Hong Kong and all those kind of things. It's not a word that we even use. You know, when I first arrived there and go like, oh, you're a minority. I'm like, what does that even mean? You know how many billions of Asians there are around the world? And how many there are in the U.S. itself?

It's like at that time, if you think about it, there were no pairing of what they would say to minorities. And I had a good friend who was an incredible director, and he said to me, honestly, I would love to cast you. But because once we cast a minority who's the lead, you have no chance. Wow. So this is the 1990s we're talking about. So what were the kind of roles you were being offered? The very stereotype. They had to find a reason why an Asian person would be in that role.

So easy, Chinatown, right? or a waiter in a Chinese restaurant. So it always has to be explained. The most important thing is to be seen doing ordinary things, normal things, and even positions of power. In the past, we had to fight for women to be in positions of power. For the longest of time, we didn't even get a chance to have a seat at the table. And we had to fight to change the whole dynamics, the whole way of thinking.

And it's an ongoing battle. It's not a done deal. I mean, when we made Crazy Rich Asians, the last all-Asian cast was Joy Luck Club, which was 26 years ago. And the Crazy Rich Asians came out in 2018. So can you imagine that beating rom-com, all-Asian cast?

No chance. But we did it. Because I think our audience is much more embracing and willing and wanting to see their friends, their people up there. And that's the only way you can have a true, real exchange of culture and acceptance. Do you know Oscar-winning actress, Michelle Yo's superstar, do you experience racism? I would be lying if I say no.

I'll put it delicately because they don't want, they dare not show us. very direct racism because of the position I'm in right now. Maybe five years ago, even then, you would face it. You see the people go like, what's Asian person doing here? I think the distribution of wealth has helped as well. But unfortunately, it's quite apparent still today when you have, in America, when you hear of, uh, Asian older women get punched in the face for just walking down the street.

And just because, you know, young girls or boys get harassed and bullied because they're Asians, I think I don't understand, you know, to date, why it's still happening. So that's why when a movie, like what we've done with Wicked, comes out, where we encourage people to see it's beautiful to be different because that's how we are all made. All of us are different. And we should not be, I think one of our worst human traits is we're judgmental. We like to judge. We like to be above, I don't know, I don't know why. We always think that we have to be better and be able to tell the other person or put them down or whatever it is. I think that is something I hope that we all learn that an act of kindness or compassion

goes a long, long way in our world. And we are in so desperate. need of that. Your final failure is a specific stunt accident. Oh, I don't see it as a failure. I think I see it. You see, don't mistake that for being reckless, you know, we as, because I still love doing my own stunts and I still do today. Now, I am not afraid to turn on and say, let my stunt.

double do it. You know, that's why she's here for her. And to be honest, because you're only physically capable of certain things, right? At the end of the day, you are an actor. And I remember even when we were doing Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and Angley was always, he would really get pissed off when people say, oh, she's a stunned, you know, she's an action actor. And he would go like, No, she's an actress, okay? It's just because she knows how to do some action. It doesn't make her just a stunned actor. With time, I've learned that you have to protect yourself.

And remember, this is for entertainment. None of us should ever get hurt. And unfortunately, one of our movies, and how ironic, it was my kudos, my homage to the stunt people because I was playing a stunt woman. And I wanted to go behind the scenes and show the audiences, you know, those people that makes us look so good. It's a tough life. And especially in Hong Kong at that time, because the stunts were real.

I mean, I used to hate the horror stories where they said, we know that someone's going to get hurt. The van is ready to take him or her to the hospital. And you go, but why? That was the safety measures were just not up to par. unlike what it is today thank God it was so bad

I thought everybody thought I broke my back what do you mind saying what happened is it traumatizing in this scene the stunt woman

was had left that kind of career because she felt it was going nowhere she was getting hurt and all this kind of things but then she failed

in her business and she had to come back to do stunt work again and Samo Hong bless him he's the actor but also the mentor of this stunt woman.

So he knew that she had to get back on the horse and do the stunt and don't hesitate. One thing you should never do is hesitate. When you agree to do it, you have to be committed and see it all the way through. Even if you're hurt, you have to see it all the way through.

And I think one of the best stories is Tom Cruise. You remember when he did that jump? Yes. He broke his ankle. Yes. But when he got up, he limped out of it. Can you imagine if he broke it and he went, ow, out, out, out. That couldn't have been used.

So in that way, if you punch someone accidentally, which you shouldn't, you should see it through because, unfortunately, it's done. I love you. So in this scene, the big stunt was her jumping off and Samo pushes her off this. And it's in a flyover and she lands on a big truck

that's moving by. It's like a 30 foot fall. And, you know, we do it with wire, land, everything is good. So now we do have to do a close-up. So it's off maybe a little higher than here, about 15 feet. And all I do is that was the mistake. Because the camera was close up. So it wasn't about the stunt.

All it was was like, he pushes me and I fall off frame like this. But because they were filming from down here, I had a longer way to go. And my bad was like when he pulled. pushed, I tumbled, but I was still trying to give to act. Right. Instead of going, no, what you have to flip. And so I landed head into, and we don't have like the airbags. We have cardboard boxes and like a couple of mattresses on top.

And in fact, if you land like this on the mattress, it's like this. It's solid, right? So all I felt was my head going into here, my legs came from behind me and went, exactly. They hit your back. They hit the top of my head. Oh, my gosh. And so when I, and everybody, my poor director, Anne Hoy, the incredible Anne Hoy,

this was so poor Anne. I convinced her to do an action film, but she's a dramatic, amazing drama director. And so this was her first thing into the action with some kind of action. She was literally standing, I landed here, and she was standing where you are. And I turned around, and your whole body is on fire. And I saw her, and she was there just in shock with tears streaming down her face. And poor Samuel, he was up in the flyover, about 15 feet away. And I heard him call me by my own name, not Michelle, but true king.

And I thought, oh, shoot, something is really... So your body is on fire. On fire. Everybody thought, this is it. You made it through and then you were in a full body cast. Yes. For how long? Oh, my God.

It was quite a few months because, you know, the cracked ribs and all that is nothing. But all the... Fortunately, I was so flexible. I think if I wasn't so flexible, I would have... the back would have just. And so it was a, and I, at that point, you view, you review, and my best girlfriends, because I was in Hong Kong. Oh my God, they would march into the hospital room and just gave me a year full. It was like, why are you doing this?

Why do you need to do this? Look at you now. We can't help you. You can't help yourself. You know, there could be a lot worse. And I'm like, how about some sympathy going? But they were right. And then you think, like, you're right.

You're absolutely right. I should not go and do these kind of risky things. It was a little bit of a turning point. It was like, maybe I should skewer away from doing movies or, you know, find some other things. And, you know, when you're in the hospital and when you've got all those drugs in you, it's depressing. You know, and your body is just going like, I can't do anything. I can't even lift my arm or my leg or anything like that. It was not a happy time.

But then someone visited you, didn't you? Yes. Who visited you? Quentin Tarant D. Today, I have to thank him. I have to thank him for being so relentless because, you know, he came to Hong Kong and he said, I want to meet da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And one of them was me.

And I am a huge fan of his. Any time I would have, you know, wherever he was, I would have gone to see him. But, you know, you're in a cast. You're thinking, and your mindset is also, no. But he was like, just give me five minutes. I just want to say hello. So finally he came to the house. And I remember I was sitting downstairs in our living room.

And he came bounding, literally. You know, he's tall and striding down the stairs. staircase. It's like my shell. He picks up a pillow, drops him at my, I'm sitting there, and he plops himself down, and he starts talking about, you know, how much you love my work and what, you know, how it was there. And he literally frame for frame. He reminded me of some of the stunts that I did and all that. So the next thing I knew was we, he made me realize why I loved filmmaking so much. It's a passion. It's not just a job. Like, okay, just tailor your passion.

Gosh, I could listen to you for days. You've had such an incredible life and it feels like you're only just getting started still. Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, if I could ask you to look back at these three specific failures from your vantage point now, what do you think they taught you?

When I was coming onto your program, that was the one thing. When I look at these three things, I go like, they're not failures, you know? Yes, it's something that happened. in your journey in your life. Like we say, there are ups and their downs. But each of this segment taught me to be more resilient,

taught me to be smarter, taught me how, yes, there are certain things that I will have to continue to deal with, to overcome it, you know. And there are certain things that you go like, it's okay, moving on. Always in motion. Always. Yes, I think when, I don't think the time for me yet is to come to a standstill. I still think there are so many different things

that I'm still learning and hoping to do. Do you think that's what keeps you so young at heart whilst also being a wise soul? Do you think that's partly why this sort of zest that you have for discovery, for learning, for forward motion, that's important? I think yes, that has a great deal to do with it. I think having the right people around you has a lot to do with it because they inspire me.

They help me to see things in a different way. Having people who love you for who you are. I mean, that is like my husband. He doesn't try to change me. So I have people around me who have great respect. We have great respect for each other. We cajole each other. We bully each other to have the best outcome.

And I think that is very important that you find your people because, you know, you don't walk alone. Please don't walk along. You know, walk with people who respect you, love you, and you have a much better time. Michelle Yo, I am so thrilled to have met you. Thank you for coming on How to Fail. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was fun.

Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.