How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Miquita Oliver - I Drank Half a Bottle of Wine Every Morning

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Miquita Oliver is a podcaster, TV presenter and all-round brilliant woman. She was just 16 when she burst onto our screens co-hosting Channel 4’s cult music show Popworld alongside Simon Amstell. Twenty-five years later, she’s still one of Britain’s most distinctive broadcasters and interviewers. She co-created Miss Me?, with Lily Allen, and now co-hosts it with musician Jordan Stephens of Rizzle Kicks. You may also know Miquita from the acclaimed BBC series The Caribbean with Andi and Miquita, in which she and her mother, Andi Oliver, travelled to Antigua to reconnect with their family, heritage and identity. We talk about Miquita surviving the 2004 tsunami in Thailand, the shame she associates with going bankrupt, her struggle with alcoholism in her thirties, love, family, and why she still can't quite conquer her driving theory test. She even opens up about her hopes and fears around motherhood. This is an essential conversation for any one who survived the noughties diet culture or who has grappled with financial hardship. Frank, funny and unexpectedly moving: just like Miquita herself. IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 02:42 Heritage and Caribbean Roots 04:19 Tsunami Trauma and Healing 07:04 Iconic Co-Hosts and Craft 10:51 Losing Home 13:03 Miss Me Origins and Honesty 15:26 Bankruptcy Shame and Survival 30:58 Weight and Work Comeback 32:02 Second Reinvention Switch 33:01 Money Lessons After Bankruptcy 34:21 Why Aren’t We Taught Tax 35:50 Alcoholism 39:19 Leaving Richmond and Getting Clear 43:12 Motherhood Without Shame 48:03 Driving Test Fail LINKS + MENTIONS: Listen to Miss Me? wherever you get your podcasts Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com WANT MORE? Andi Oliver - swap.fm/l/kcBWNXdPsg7LhgcGhvoF Lily Allen - swap.fm/l/8Otj3tpmbH5SF4xjVHTJ Neneh Cherry - swap.fm/l/r5YD9vNivp5t6yw1gN1U Mabel - swap.fm/l/bfOzGVjFFpo13LK7MHUu LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Guest bookings for How To Fail only come from official @sonymusic.com emails Elizabeth and Miquita answer listener questions in our subscriber series: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bin men blow jobs, arts and culture. Now we got a podcast. And then 23, 24. I don't know what happened. Well, probably drugs and alcohol. I'm with Coots. I make money. I'm on telly.

I'm successful. I have a big house. And it all went. And then my boyfriend dumped me. And I would get up in the morning and drink half a bottle of white wine just so that I could get on the tube back to my house. This episode of How to Fail is Broad. to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant.

Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This is the podcast where every week I speak to a new guest about three times they think they failed in life and what they learned along the way. Before we get started on this episode, please do you remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single conversation. Evening, buy his remorse.

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When Makita Oliver was a child, her dream was to be an actor. Now 42, she is, she says, still quietly harboring plans. It would be a foolish person to bet against her. Oliver started her career as a TV presenter at the precocious age of 16 after leaving school without GCSEs. She co-hosted Channel 4's iconic pop world with Simon Amstall, graduating to a regular slot on the Channel's youth strand T4. Oliver became known for her playful wittiness and clever, often intentional awkwardness that always ended up showing a different side to much interviewed

celebrities. Perhaps her fearlessness on screen is to do with an unconventional upbringing. Half Scottish, half Antiguan, her mother is the singer turned chef turned TV presenter, Andy Oliver, who raised her daughter as a single parent in the chaotic vibrancy of nine. 1980s Notting Hill, where family friends included Nenna Cherry and Lily Allen. In 2024, Oliver and Alan launched Miss Me, one of the BBC's most successful podcasts. Oliver now hosts the twice-weekly blend of personal stories, cultural moments and discussions about mental health with Jordan Stevens. An adept broadcaster, an intelligent interviewer, and, fun fact, an extremely talented skipper. Oliver could be forgiven for a touch of arrogance.

Instead, when asked recently to sum up her life in six words, she answered, I got very lucky, very young. Makita Oliver, welcome to How to Fail. Elizabeth, I've never had an intro so long and in depth before. It was really good. There was so much more I could have said and so much I left out. Really? The incredible documentary you did with your mum about the Caribbean,

which she also served as producer on. Yeah. Loved every second of that. Yeah, God, that was such a turning point for both mum and I, as broadcasters and as people, human beings. Tell me more about why. Well, that's one of those things that comes back to you all the time, which I love.

We sort of went to do the show, and I was like, goodness me, I'm going to come back so Antiguan. God, I'm going to feel so connected to that, completely forgetting that we're fucking African. And we're not Antiguan at all. that's the Arabs and the carawaks, that's where we were taken. And when you know that academically, that's fine. But once you arrive and start to live that and feel that, something changes in you, but not immediately.

And additional things were happening, like being given our DNA results and seeing, like, you know, really plainly that we're Nigerian, not just African, we're Nigerian. And West Bantu people and the Congo. And suddenly everything that's just words becomes a feeling and you can feel your ancestors. So it sort of changed everything that show. And I've never been more proud of television that I'd made and that we'd made. It was a beautiful thing to watch. I hadn't intended to get this deep this quickly, but I'm just aware the way that you expressed that understanding of your heritage, the dipping into and dipping out of who you know you are

and who you thought you were is the metaphor of the sea in so many ways. And I know that it was also healing for you that trip doing that show about the Caribbean in terms of the sea because you went through something incredibly traumatic in 2004. What, the tsunami? Yes. Yeah.

It's so funny because I forgot, not forgot, but I'd never discussed it and never think about it, truly, no nightmares or anything. And it came up on Miss Me, like, year one, because Lil was talking about it when it keeps in the tsunami. And the whole team were like, what? And since then I've talked about it a few more times and have actually had to face it in a very different way.

It's weird. Trauma comes in so many different forms. And I'm not now I'm not afraid of the sea at all. And there was a lot of healing with the sea in the Caribbean. But like I couldn't even tell you, like I will go deeply into the sea. I attack the sea. I love the ocean.

It's not that that was ruined for me. I think it was just to inhabit such an intense feeling of fight or flight for such a long period of time. I mean, not long, but like 14 hours of I might die any minute. I think that changed me. Thank God I had Simon Amstil because, and we talked about it the other day, he reacted very differently. He was making jokes.

And I was like, surely not here on this mountain as we wait for a possible other wave to come and sweep us all in. Simon still went to jokes and I think when you're in real panic and real terror you all go to your safe places and my safe places be quite loud and panicky

like I was like someone needs to save us someone needs to save me from this and no one could Simon's was I need to just make this funny so it was yeah it was a very very very strange experience that I'm glad I'm talking about now I'm actually doing EDMR

EMDR EMDR EMDR that's so good for programming how your body responds to trauma. The tapping is it? Yeah. No, it's rapid eye movement. And apparently the research is that if your brain is engaged bilaterally,

you can unstick things that may be deeper down, gentler, in a gentler fashion. And may surprise yourself for what comes up. It's quite terrifying because you're like, maybe I'll just keep all that down there. I know. But actually I was like, no, this is the year to one pick, to unstick. And it's been great. I really enjoyed it, actually. Of course you go straight in with the spina.

I'm so sorry. I actually didn't mean to do that. I was just going to go. I have my feelings. It's like bankruptcy. But yes, the tsunami. I'm so sorry. Let's just do it.

Tick. We've done that one. We've done that one. Moving on your driving test. Oh, God. I wanted to talk about how you are often part of an icon. partnership. So Simon Amstall on Pop World, we'll never forget that, just the glory days. Yeah. Lily Allen on Miss Me, now Jordan Stevens, you are incredibly adept at structuring a

conversation, but making it seem really informal and easy and including us into a friendship dynamic. Wow, thank you. No, it's a real gift and I don't think it gets heralded enough because you make it seem easy. But I know that. but it's quite hard to do. Yeah. And I suppose I just wanted to say, you're really great at it. And you're the star too.

It's what I wanted to say. And I don't think there's a question there. Oh, God. I think that I've always been very good at making the other presenter their best. I learned it very early with Simon. I knew. But maybe it's just because I understand. Or maybe I'm just very, very curious about the way people work.

and what they need. And I suppose I've used conversation to do that my whole life to sort of make people feel safe. I learned it last year when I was, when I, everything, you know, was going very well in my life. We just don't miss me live. And something terrifying happened with a neighbor, a next door neighbor. And I was suddenly in danger in my beautiful house

and had to evacuate my flat and move to my mom's house. and my auntie was staying in the spare room my nan lives there, you've been there and so there was no space so I had to move to the sofa in the sitting room and I ended up being there for seven months and I had to do miss me from there with my nan coming in like, oh hi Lily

I was like, no remember this is that thing that I like film you can't disrupt it and it was so challenging so Elizabeth like I felt like it was all happening again I was like no I can't I can't. I can't be losing everything again. I can't. That doesn't feel right or fair. And Lily was going through this divorce. We were in a mess in 2025 and we just had to keep going. And as you know, with these things, it takes a lot out of you. It's the most fun in the world, but it also is, it can be the hardest thing in the world sometimes when life is very real. And you're talking about your life. So I felt like all my shame was on show because suddenly I wasn't in my flat that I thought represented how far I'd come.

Yes. I was suddenly in the kitchen at mums. And I didn't have all the things around me that I had built up to make my life feel like I'd changed it and done something and made myself proud. But I did it. I did my fucking job every week, twice a week, did the research, even from the sofa.

And that's when I realized that I am really good at my job. And I really, it's somewhere I can can go and I just know how to do it. I don't want to be too goodwill hunting about it. But you know when he says, Mozart, he could read music and he could just play. When I look at math, I can just play. For some reason, Elizabeth, when I went on that set when I was a kid, I just knew how to play. That idea, and we're going to get more into it because it is relevant to one of your

failures, but living around lots of people and having to communicate with lots of people, even if you don't want to, I'm imagining was embedded in your childhood from a very young age because you had this kind of broader community in Notting Hill, Labric Grove. But then when you were 15, you went to live with your aunt and uncle, is that right? Yeah, I went to live in Nana because we lost everything, our flat in Notting Hill, Powers Terrace like Westman Park. We lost it. We lost it. We We had a housing trust flat for 14 years. So it was like our home. And it was a beautiful, great flat.

And that's when Mum and Garth moved to Clapton. Garfield's her partner. Garth was my stepdad, yes. And I was like, sorry, where? Like, none of us had heard of it. I was like, I'm not going to East London. And bless them, it wasn't even a flat big enough for all of us. It was a one-bedroom council flat that Garth would happen to have.

And they were going to sleep in the sitting room and give me the bedroom, which they've done a few times actually in our lives because we had a few shitty flats after we'd left Powers Terrace and then the big move to east and I think that's what was the beginning of my trajectory into my career because I moved to Nana and Cameron's and I it's a lovely five-floor house in Primrose Hill which I loved but I was surrounded by my cousins I lived with a big family which I always wanted it was so often just mum and I and Cameron my uncle paid for me to go to school because I hadn't really been in school much.

I was a bit of a mess and it sort of put me back together. And I think if I hadn't been pushed into this sort of involuntary independence, then I might not have said yes when mum said, that lady you met the other day wants to know if you want to audition

for this music show. I was like, yeah, okay. I mean, I don't even live with you anymore. Like, the worlds are always still, let's go for it. So yeah, there was a real shift. I remember there was a lot of people having conversations in small rooms that suddenly went out in the world and changed things,

whether that be like the clash or Nana, or even like, you know, like my mum was friends with like that violinist, Nigel Kennedy. And he was like at our house playing a bit of violin. Then I saw him on TV playing violin. And I was like, right. So you can, so these people are sort of talking about these things and then suddenly they're in the world

and they're changing culture or making culture. Even if by osmosis, I saw that early. And I remember thinking that was very exciting. Love it. Do you know what I mean? I do. I do. I do.

I do. Right. You can do things. Before we get onto your failures, it miss me is renowned, rightly so, for its eloquence and honesty. Oh, yeah. I love that. It's so brilliant. You know I love it.

Yes, I do. Is there anything that you ever regret having said on it? Um, no. Because, you know, that's the thing. Yeah. So I remember, I've got two. favourite memories of the beginning of Miss Me. One was us trying to figure out a name for it. And we were going to call it like, call me back, please, or something like that. And then we were

trying to get, and this was like three days before launch, or maybe like a week before launch. We'd already done the whole photo shoot and everything. We still did not have a name. And then it was like, don't you miss me? And I remember I wrote it down in my notes like, maybe don't you miss me, did it? And then Lil text me and just said, miss me, question mark. And I remember screenshot and going, shit, I think this is going to be massive. I just thought it was the best name for a podcast I'd ever heard in my life. I loved it. It was like, it was just succinct.

It meant so many things. And I loved that it meant it was a nod very subtly and not all bait to me and Lily's careers and what we'd already done without saying, hey, we're back. It was just this little like, remember us? I mean, the first one was great. It was like the listen bitch boys from the 90s and stuff. And I was like, oh, we've got something here. And then virginity, the next one we did, Lily started, you know, going on about like,

I think it's a patriarchal construct. And I was suddenly, I remember thinking, fuck, it might get a little bit too, like, negative and not like playful enough. And then I heard it back and I suddenly realized what it was, which was it was both. It was everything. And there was talk like, don't make it too radio four. And one of the things that really I had to fight for, and I still do, which is like there's this idea that smart things or culture things are spoken about here. And then blow jobs and, you know, sex is spoken about here and da-da-da. And I was like, no, bin men, blow jobs, arts and culture.

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Your first one is bankruptcy. Good old bankruptcy. The way that you put it to me, I think, is so revealing. Failure to believe I deserved the money I was making. Tell us about this. And when you first became aware that you were making serious money. I remember being at Nana's house at the house I was just talking about. Because I have quite a photographic memory, I think.

I just always remember exactly where I was. when I hear things. And I remember walking upstairs and my agent told me how much money I was going to make that year and I was 20. And I remember thinking, Jesus Christ, I'm rich. It's not even like I was like close to that. It wasn't like I was like making good money and like it was starting to go well. I think I've been on TV for two years and suddenly I was rich. And that felt really strange because my parents had no money. And I was still living in my cousin Mabel's baby bedroom in Nana's house. That is Mabel the superstar, pop star.

Yes, right, that's Mabel. And she very sweetly gave me her room when I moved into their house and moved into it. I mean, she was only at three or four, but it was very sweet. And yeah, so I was a bit like, right, I guess I can do anything. And I had a really nice sort of year or two of really enjoying my success. I really did. And I really, and Lil got famous around then as well. And I was like, look, this is all going very well, isn't it?

And then 23, 24, I don't know what happened. Well, probably drugs and alcohol. And I just had a shift. And suddenly it was all about trying to keep it all together. I guess pressure, the pressure of weekly TV. Yeah. And I suppose by then 23, it was. like seven years.

Yeah, of course, seven year cycle. About seven years and I was suddenly a bit like, this is exhausting. And I think that what's exhausting is being under pressure always. Just to like be on and to do your research and to do your job well and be very, very visible. And suddenly people really like Popwell and it's really funny. So you need to be funny every week.

And I think people forget that Popwell was completely improvised. Like we just talked and it's like, a series of 12, three-minute links every week that need to be of a certain level. That doesn't sound like much, and not to mention the VTs and all that. And it's like, actually when things are really successful, it's fucking terrifying. Yes. I just stopped caring for myself and just thought that I should make sure everyone was always looked after, whether that be getting the bill, getting the cabs, my house for all the parties,

buying all the drugs, buying all the alcohol. I think it made me feel in control. But it was sort of like not really how a successful person should live because I know now and I see some going, I'll get it, I'll get it. I always think it feels quite weak. And I think I was being quite weak. I didn't, I should have stepped into my success and my power and kept the wealth for me. But I didn't know how to do that.

I didn't feel like it was right. I felt like it had to all go. That's really interesting. And that idea of not feeling deserving, of nice things. Have you ever had that? It's very strange. Yeah.

As you're talking about it, I'm thinking, I do often say, oh, I'll get this. Still. Yes. Me too. Yeah. And you're right that there's a bit of sort of guilt attached to it. Like, shame that you're doing well. Yeah.

Definitely. It's incredible shame, isn't it? We can even put it on our total, like, victories. Absolutely. I think I was a bit ashamed, which is absolutely ridiculous. I was 23 and had been one of the most successful young female presenters on TV for seven years. And I was black and from no money. And I should have been really proud of myself. But I just didn't know how to be.

I just wanted to be something else. Yeah. It was very strange. I was so, I was so, given, you know, so much celebrating. for the work I did and the work I was doing, but in my personal life I felt very worthless. Did you feel that they were talking about you when you were given a claim?

Did it feel like the real Makita? Yes, right. Yeah, I was really like, yeah, I am good. I am fucking good at this. But that was one thing, but then they would also call me dirty and fat. And also some like high-level TV people brought me into their offices to tell me like, you know, you need to be like cleaner and thinner.

And but the things they sort of had a point, I was becoming very kind of messy and ungroomed. And I think the way I felt about myself and my personal love was starting to seep through about 24, 25. And of course, this is all leading to the bankruptcy at 27. But I didn't know anything about Saturn's return then. I wish someone would have bloody told me, like it's fine, your life is meant to explode between 27 and 20.

Let's talk about being on screen, first off, because you get this job at 16. It's the chemistry with Simon immediate. Yeah. It was the first time you met him at a screen test or something. Yeah, we did a screen test on East Castle Street in Soho. And I wasn't nervous. I have no idea why I wasn't nervous, but I just wasn't.

And all I knew is that it was a new music show for Channel 4. And I kind of recognized him, and now I know it's because he was on Nickelodeon. We didn't like like each other straight away, but I thought he was very interesting. I was very curious about him. And he was just kind of baffled by me. He couldn't understand how this child could be talking about like squat parties and going out later. He was like, what do you mean you're going out later?

We just came from such different worlds. Thank God because that's what made it so brilliant. And, you know, I'm not sure whether Simon and I's past would have crossed if we weren't asked to like host a pop music show together. which is insane because he's such a part of me now. That adventure together, it feels like something like that I made up. It's just amazing. What was T4 like? Was it as fun as it seemed as a viewer from the outside?

Yes. I mean, when I was presenting T4 with Steve Jones, I think, you know, he was so lusted after and seen as this kind of Kendall. But he's actually quite dangerous. Like, he loves to swear. he's whip smart and Steve made me feel safe and

loved and he would always tell me how good I was and he would always tell me that I'd made him better which meant it so much to me I did I felt him growing when we did T4 and you know travelling around the country I used to get a bit pissed off because it was all summer and I really really wanted to just have a break

and we'd also do like this makes me sound so like ridiculous We'd also do like spring break tours and we'd go to like Australia for the month. This is when Telly had loads of money, Elizabeth. So we'd go to like the St. Kitt's. We'd go to St Kitts to film like a teaser for like eight days. But I have to say the last few years were really difficult. So you were living on your own by this stage.

You were in your own flat. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of different flats. What happened? Like how does bankruptcy happen? What's the first sign that you have? Right. I come from a family, like me and mum and Garf, who I don't think have ever uttered

the word tax. Like I didn't know anything about tax. And I had an accountant who was fine, but he had really big clients and I was one of his smaller clients and our correspondence was just a bit off, which was fine and everything was getting paid. But then there was, this is because I was sort of falling apart around 25, then there was this tax bill coming up. I remember and I was getting a bit worried about it, but I was like, no, it's fine. And then Jess was like, T4's changing and I don't think you're going to be moving forward with them. Is that your agent, Jeff? Yeah.

And I was, then I was like, oh my God. And obviously, if you're not putting money aside for tax, that's how it gets you. I mean, interestingly now, I think maybe some discourse, dialogue, conversation. if I'd asked my accountant for help, but I just kept ignoring his calls. And then I went to his office in, like, Harley Street on Marilynne, and he said the word bankruptcy. And I was like, is it that serious? And he was like, well, you don't have any earnings and this is coming up. And I remember, I called my mom and I said, I think I have to go bankrupt. And she, bless her, did what she does when things are really bad. And she was like,

you know, you're not going to have to go bankrupt. Don't be ridiculous. And I sort of believed her, even though she doesn't know anything about tax or anything like that. And I was like, yeah, you're right. I wouldn't have to go bankrupt. That's like, I was very aware that, like, Wesley Snipes had gone bankrupt and like Kim Bassenger. That's what I remembered. So I was like, no, that's like what big American film stars do.

Found out I would have to go bankrupt after maybe four months of these letters coming and I just put them in this bureau. Don't look. Don't look. And then I was, but I was also so scared about the fact that I was leaving T4. So I was just terrified And living in secrets and lives Didn't tell anyone

God, I haven't been back to this place for so long Like yeah, it was so horrible I can feel that Because it's just so weird Because I just I share everything with my family And my friends now I hate secrets

They kill They kill your soul And they can really like ruin your life And it was that that was so hard And I did My boyfriend didn't tell him And then luckily

there was no fucking social media, but I thought I'd got away with it because it'd been six months and no one knew. My mom knew, I think, but I hadn't told any family and friends and the industry didn't know. So I was like, okay, okay, I'll just work on getting some more work. And I was like DJing on like a tour for like fresh as weeks. Like I was scared. I was like, what am I actually going to do? And then I got a call from my PR and she said, I'm so sorry. Sorry, it's going to be in all the papers tomorrow. And I remember being in Westfield and Sheppers Bush

and just being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I think that it's like, you know, we all go through shit, but it's just like these are huge, massive, massive public fall downs. And I was only 26. And I was sort of, like, at home that night, just, like, living with that pressure of, like, this thing coming out that, like, some people jump off roofs about. I was just like, I don't even know how I'm going to.

to deal with this. And I guess I just took it one day at a time, but it was, it was a real unraveling. It wasn't just, I mean, it's hardcore. Like, you know, you have to go to a really big office and they're not nice to you. I thought they'd be, like, quite kind. Yeah. I thought maybe like, you're going through this thing. They were like, you haven't paid the government this money. Like, you're a criminal. I was like, right, okay. And I didn't have any support. My accountant didn't come with me. I was just on my own. And they asked me where I lived and I lived in a two-bed flat and Talbot Road. I'd moved back to West and they were like, you don't need that. So I had to move back into my mum's, mom and Garth's, which was a two-bed council flat in Clapton and I had to

move into the spare room. And I earned some money and they took it. They just kept taking it. and, you know, got quite an angry letter from Coots telling me I was no longer remember. I was like, oh, this just gets worse. Now I'm not even with Coots. Like these things that you just think make up who you are. I'm with Coots. I make money. I'm on telly.

I'm successful. I have a big house. And it all went. And then my boyfriend dumped me. He didn't even find out. He just dumped me. He was starting to be mean to me about the fact that it wasn't paying for everything. He was like, why aren't you getting it?

And I couldn't tell him, I've gone bankrupt. So I was sort of trying to, I was borrowing money from my cousin, like 40 quid here, 30 could there so that I could take him for dinner and, oh, I'll get it. So it still felt like me. God, I forgot about that. Yeah, so it felt like my whole identity had been stripped. But thank God it, thank God it did have that. It was the greatest humbling.

Oh, my goodness. I have it had, yeah. You've explained that so well. And what I imagine was the feeling of immense shame, misplaced shame, but that's, you know, That's a very heavy burden to carry. That's what it was, Elizabeth. It was so heavy. It was so heavy.

People looking at the street, like you've lost a limb. They're like, okay. Friends texting me like, is this true? People gossiping about it. I remember Lily and Grimmie taking me out to Nobu. Grimmy being Nick Grimshaw. Yeah. About two weeks after it had come out, I swear.

Going out with them and like the paparats. shouting it as we walked through are you too bankrupt for this or you ain't got any money or something and then we when we went upstairs we sort of had lunch and they were sort of everyone was sort of making jokes

about it and I was like fuck I think I'm going to be a joke for a while and figuring out how to settle into that figuring out how to settle into this idea of being a failure yeah how did you get through it and what do you think you learn in getting through it?

Oh, definitely that like when you have nothing, you suddenly gain quite a lot. I was like, God, thank God my parents have this fucking flat. Thank God they love me and will let me live here without rent. Thank God we look after each other like that in this family. My mum calls it the floating tenor when they were younger and everyone had no money. Nana would be like, I've got a tenor. And then its mom, Viv, would be like, has anyone got that tenor? Whether that be 50 quid or two quid, it was like the floating tenor.

And I just, they floated me. They floating tened me. The whole family did. And, you know, the cliche is true. I found out who really is my, who really are my people. Hadn't been really close to my cousins in a long time. I went straight back to that. I started like asking people who loved me to help me.

Like my cousin McKenzie's a trainer. And I was like, would you help me train for free? so I can try and lose some weight to try and work again. And he trained me for free for months. Oh, I forgot he did that. Oh, Makita. And I got V Festival from it. I was like, I'm back.

Yeah. It was like these little things. Like I lost a stone, a bit more. And I felt, and I sort of like got a better weave. And I asked someone for a favor for that so that I could go through to this poshue hairdresser. My main focus was get your career back, get your career back. And I, to be fair,

was slim, looking good, back on telly within a year on Channel 4, hosting V-Festival. And I was like, okay, I've done it. Then I did a few more things, but then I wasn't actually ready to come back. I just needed to see that I could. And then I unfortunately went down further after that. The slimness is a recurring theme for anyone who has survived the 90s. I am really sorry that you went. through not only what you've just described in terms of bankruptcy, but having conversations

with people in television who told you you needed to lose weight? I feel like they were right though. That's interesting. Do you still feel that now? Well, I got my career back when I lost loads of weight. But it shouldn't be that way. I know, but it just is. I was always good at my job, but I got working again when I lost weight.

Do you think it's still that way? Yeah, because this was the second round of coming back. This was when I was 35 and I was hugely overweight by that point. And I was, we'll get into it. You will. And I was drowning. But I had a switch. I moved to a different flat and I decided to change my life and skipped like furiously.

Started training. And I started to lose weight, a lot of weight. and I started working again but I was also ready I had a plan and I knew that if I had done what I'd done in my career

and I felt good about myself I knew that the sky was the limit I think what I'm hearing there is something that I talk about all the time on this podcast that you get stronger through surviving challenge so you have so much resilience now

because of what you went through before we get onto your second failure, how do you manage your finances now? Please tell me you have a new accountant. Please tell me you left that person. Do you know what? I then had an accountant, this is unbelievable,

an accountant who saved me from bankruptcy and things went really, really badly. No. And then I had a lovely family friend who really saved me. And as I was working again, really got me into a good place. I now know everything about everything.

And I now have an accountant's, an accountancy firm that like the person that I trust most with money, my agent Jess, she said go to them. And that was about two years ago. You know, I'm, what's the word? A cautionary tale if my mom gets it. I'm like, no, no, no. Like, remember what happened to me?

We have to stay so on this. This is so important. This is so important. And it's not just because I'm scared. It's just important. Like, I'm building a business. You want that shit clean. Yeah.

And under control. Yes. I mean, you run an empire. I know. Let's call it an empire. She's literally just me and a logo. That's all it's taken now. I am a founder. I am a founder.

Please, Trailblazer, if you will. This is like eight years old. So I think that there is something to be said of wanting to see, you know, wanting to build things well now from the bottom up. We're all so scared of those brand envelopes that come in the post. And I've done it as well. And I was never taught about tax. And it should be on the curriculum.

How is it on the curriculum? And actually that's another moment when I realized that Miss Me was really here to do something else, which was like almost be like a bit a bit soapboxy. Because I was like, why is there no tax on the curriculum? Just an answer would be great. Not just tax, mortgages. Yeah. Like the whole structuring of how to live a life isn't there.

It's not fucking coincidence. Yeah. So we have to take it upon ourselves to educate ourselves. And there are people that are educated by, like, all the people that I work with at T4 all bought houses because their families owned homes and paid their tax. So it was just to prove, the first thing grimmy did was bought a flat. And I was like, what do you mean buy a flat? And there were times where I was making a lot more money than all of those people, but I didn't do the right things because I had never even seen that stuff put into play. I had with my auntie Nana and Uncle Cam, but they were just like my rich auntie uncle and I didn't know anything about their tax.

I just knew that they were better with money. Like, I know a bit more now because I've been curious, but, like, it's not like people have all the answers. Like, you don't have to be embarrassed to be like, I really don't understand VAT. How does it work? I don't know who you need to ask, but just people that are good of money,

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Let's get on to your second failure because it weaves into this one, which is, as you put it, failure to see that alcoholism had taken over my life in my early 30s. What a brave sentence to write, number one. When or what moment do you think you did realize that this was something that needed addressing? Well, needed addressing, hiding from that for quite a while. But the reason I say early 30s is because we partied in our 20s. That wasn't this.

This was something else. This was when I started drinking alcohol in the morning. And that kind of steadily started from my parents, Mom and cough. No, that's the thing. They don't drink like that. Covering loves wine, but he never drinks in the, like he's not an alcoholic.

And my mom never drinks like that. Mom likes to party, but she doesn't like to, like she doesn't drink wine at home on her own. I've been steadily drinking wine at home at night since I was about 28. But in my early 30s, I suppose after the little mini come back, and things started dying down again. I was just like, I don't have any money.

And I didn't know what I was going to do. And I got into a bit of a weird relationship. I started drinking in the day because my parents were running the birdcage pub on Columbia Road. So things just started getting really bad, like with the family. Everyone was just partying all the time. My parents should not own a pub. Okay?

It's as simple as that. So it just sort of segued into like, oh, I'm not at the pub. But I can drink. I'll drink because if I was at the pub, I'd be drinking at 1 p.m. And then it just got earlier and earlier. And then I was going out with this boy and his parents loved me. So they let me do anything and they were quite sort of well to.

No, they were kind of cool, but, you know, quite well off. And they had a wine fridge and I would get up in the morning and drink half a bottle of white wine just so that I could get on the tube back to my house. So that's how much I needed to be in a haze. And I think that there was a combination of still being famous. Even when you're not working. That is a horrible mix. And it can go on for years.

And there's a lot of my worst question in the world. What are you up to now? Oh my God, that question. Yeah. Constantly. In front of people, loudly, across the street, across pubs. I just was just constantly ashamed. I'd done, oh, I'd done that show with mum where we did a car rally around the world of Southeast Asia.

and I went into promote it on one extra and a DJ there, I won't name them but a DJ there very respected, brilliant DJ he said, McKear Oliver, she was one of the best, it's such a sad story and I thought, wow. In front of you?

Yeah, like as I walked into the studio and I thought, wow, I was stuck and I didn't know where I was going to turn and I got in a really bad relationship in Richmond so I was hiding in Richmond when no one could find me or get to me and it just got so bad the alcoholism got so bad.

I didn't tell mum. I didn't tell anyone. I couldn't believe how bad it got. So I just lived in the disbelief and the denial. Not even denial. I knew how bad it was, but I had no intention of leaving it. And that was like 31 to 35.

Oh my gosh. So four years. Yeah. God. Yeah. Yeah. How did you get help? I didn't get help.

I just something. changed Elizabeth. I got a new flat. I broke up with that guy because he was very, he was a real bully and he would really tell me like that you, you're a failure and like you're never going to be on TV again. You do know that right. That's over because he was in something that had failed and he didn't see a route back for him. So he was like, no, no, no, we're a failure's. And that's what this relationship is about and we just drink and take drugs. That's what we do. And I was like, yeah, sure. But then suddenly I was like, no. And I remember even, because he lived at his mum's house. And he was four years old for me. And I would still read all the supplements. I'd still read all the

culture supplements and the times and everything and still be like, I know I'm going to be in it again or talking about it again or something. Because I just know, I just knew suddenly, broke up with him, got a new flat and it was high up. This is why I'm never living on the ground floor again. All that was ground floor. living. I got a flat because I had an Argos voiceover which saved my life. I actually will just say thank you to that Argos voice over because it was four years of steady income when I had nothing and suddenly I had money and I could do something. I could leave where I was, which was mum's house. I just started to dream again. Start skipping and just stopped drinking. I just stopped. I just completely stopped one day and I got into a relationship with a younger

man that I'd known a long time. And he was 21 and I was 34. And the family were appalled. You can't date him. He's a child. And I was like, we're actually in love. And we really were. And it was one of the best relationships I've ever had.

He didn't drink. He was a stonemason. And he's just the greatest, one of the greatest men, I'll ever know. And I loved him. and he, without knowing it, healed me. And we just walked and talked. And I was clear because I wasn't drinking.

And I was training every day, sometimes twice a day, and skipping. And eating really well. And just growing. More like, I feel like I was leaving a fucking chrysalis. I was like, I, like, came up for air. And by, and that all started in sort of May 2019. and by September, me and mum were hosting Charlton Literature Festival for Sam. And I remember thinking, right.

God, that's so extraordinary because I remember seeing you hosting Charltonleman International Festival. Yeah. And I obviously had no idea what was going on because I didn't know you then. And Sam, who you mentioned is Sam Richards, one of the most amazing people in the world and an incredible TV producer for StoryVold. Yes. So since then, have you.

ever had a drink. Oh God, yeah, no, I drink now. No, I drink now. No, I drink now. But it's just, it's just not that. That wasn't drinking, that was hiding. And I like the life I've built now. I really do.

It's very, very important to me to look after this life that I built because she would never fucking believe it. She would never fucking believe it if I went to Richmond to some sort of side-stress. where I would have been like passed out in the street. I mean, it got really bad, Elizabeth.

She would never have believed it, but I did. I still sort of knew that I was going to do something again. You know, I actually do dabble with the idea of being completely sober. I was sober for about four months last year and I really liked it. I feel like it might be something in my future. We've talked a lot about mothers and relationships. Have you thought of mothering in the conventional sense in your life do you want children yeah yeah why am i getting why am i going why am i

going up i'm sorry god no i was asked that question last year by a man and was like wow yeah no i do i really do it's really confusing the journey i know you've had your own like lengthy heartbreaking, joyful, like, it's just, I don't think people can really understand. It's very isolating. That's why I'm saying I want them, because I was embarrassed to say I did for years.

No, I'm going to stop doing that. I'm going to stop doing that. It's not really fair to the truth in myself. I'm like, tell the truth, you do want to have kids. I'd actually like to have more than one. I'd really like to raise them in elaborate grove. Like, once I started saying it, I started realizing all these different things.

Like I'd really like to be a parent. When I got my dog, I was like, oh, God, now I'm responsible for something. And I thought that Zedi had like, I thought she was the devil for like six days. And my cousin Phoebe said, yeah, that's about responsibility. So she was, the idea of looking after her terrified me so much that I thought she was evil. Which I think I've heard people talk about in parenting and stuff. It's just like the levels of it make you fucking psychotic. And now I'm like, God, I look after this dog so well.

Look at this life I've given you. And she's so loved and happy. And I'm like, okay, if it's like a 10,000, 20,000 times version of that, the feeling of sort of raising something and loving it, then I want to try. But I also have complete peace with it not happening and what life would look like then. Maybe not complete peace, but happy to look at that. Peaceful to look at that. It's peaceful for me to look at that.

It never was before. In my 30s, I was like, oh God, I'm so shameful. I'm going to be the one without kids. And I've got, you know, five aunties that don't have kids. And I was sort of panickingly studying them all. Why did she? But then Sue did have that love. Oh, shit.

And then he broke up with her. And that's probably then why she didn't. And Caroline, how she did it. And now I look at those women differently. I look at them with these lives with other things and refuse to look at their lives with shame because they don't have shame for their life. And I now see a lot of people, aunties, with kids,

who weren't fulfilled like they thought they would be by motherhood. It's like literally debunking about 4,000 myths in your head and building it up again from scratch about what it may look like for you. I've got four people pregnant in my life right now. And they're all complaining about it. They're all like, this is the ghetto. This is the worst. I'm like, okay.

Because I heard it was like, this was the most joyful thing in the world. It doesn't seem like that. Sounds like, it looks like hell. And I think there is something about being older and wanting kids because you've seen too much. 100%. If you still want it having witnessed so much. Witnessed it. Then you must really want it.

And I don't always say this. And I don't believe that having a baby is a happy ending because of everything that you spoke about it so beautifully there and I am so at peace with not having children in the biological sense but I totally see you having a baby. I do, I think you're going to give birth to the love of your life. That's what I think.

I think that's what's going to happen. You heard it here first. No, because Zowie said something very similar recently. Zowie Ashton. Yeah, she was like and she's great because she's blunt about motherhood. She's like, let me tell you what's going on here.

And about the joys, oh, about the joys and beauty. But she, we were doing, miss me, and this shelf fell down in my bathroom. And we were like,

oh, sorry, stop. And I was like, that's never happened before. She said, I don't want to be weird, but I kind of feel like that's your unborn child. She was like,

oh, stop. She was like, sorry, I'm just getting that. I do feel weirdly spiritually like motherhood is close. Yes. But maybe that's because I, usually in life,

when I talk about something from my, like, soul, I usually make it happen. And that's why I was like, you need to start talking about it. Mystery's been very good for that because I knew it would be a part of it

that Lily had kids and I didn't and that we'd both grown up together and Lily was married and I wasn't and I was like you need to, I remember thinking from the early days like you need to try and take the shame out of this because you need to talk about this because there are millions of friendships

where someone's married with kids and someone isn't, you need to just fucking stand up for the ones that aren't do you know what I mean? Not even stand up but just like talk about your life peacefully. Your final failure the current one. Not yet being able to pass my driving test.

It's the theory Elizabeth. Is it just the theory? It's just the theory. Come on. No, exactly. No, this is my point. I was getting really good practical. Like, I was kind of ready to take the test and my poor driving starts.

It was like, McKin, remember you've got to get that theory done. So, when we were doing that show, right, around the world, sorry, Southeast Asia, me and mom and Jordan, ironically. The BBC said you need to learn to drive. And I was like, okay, and I was like, in my early, I was like 33. By the way, you've only got a month or two months or something. And I was like, oh my God, I didn't have time for a couple of crash course so I was doing these lessons and it took me five times to pass the theory. I was like, God, this is hard.

Why am I finding this so stressful, triggering, upsetting, damaging? Like, I was passionately in this journey with the fucking theory test. And it's now I know on round two where I just failed for the fifth time again. This is round two. I'm like, is it with me in this test? And I'm failing by two questions over and over and over again. I'm studying. So you're making one of crying.

Oh, no, Mika, this is the thing that's broken you. Because it's going to be okay. It's my job to research things and lock them in and use them accordingly. Like, that's actually my job. And I have like a photographic memory. You're so good at it. Thank you. What do you think it is?

Test environment. Oh, okay. I can't stand it. I get angry. I get... Because you're a rebel as well. I hate the establishment. Yeah.

No, that's more my mom. I can be quite an establishment whore. Like when it comes to things like the BBC. But I just... I wasn't good with those tests. And I got Pop World as I was doing my GCSEs. Pop World in the morning. And then afternoon was school.

And it was GCSE work. And then it became tests. And I was obviously the cocky part of me was like, I got a jab. But really, I was like, anything to get out of this. And I remember thinking, I can walk out because I do have a job. I do actually have a job. I'll just be a TV presenter.

Okay. You're just going to walk out of this physics? G-SocC. Yeah, okay. And I remember having that conversation with myself, leaving and being like, right, I better make this TV thing work. And I suppose what it is about a test environment, what I do hate, I don't hate the establishment, I hate authority.

I cannot stand not being right. So that's everything in a test. It's like they're there. I don't even like when you go into the theory test and they check you and see the bottoms of your shoes please and did it. I get really like, fuck you. It's like this angry. I've always been really bad with the police.

I'm constantly getting in trouble with them. Not like arrested, but it's just like my mom's like, don't talk back to the police. I'm just fucking awesome. And I used to talk back to teachers a lot. I mean, one time I wrote this letter to my geography teacher. I tried to like bring a debate that we were doing about geography into why I thought he was like a pathetic small man. And I got expelled.

My mom was like, you're not, you can't do that. But I hated being told off by him by being told things by him. And it makes no sense because I'm deeply curious. I particularly love geography. So it's the authoritative energy. It's also sitting in that chair and feeling like I keep failing at this. Yeah. So it's having to revisit the failure.

Revisit the stupidity. of it all. The fact that I'm, these logical, these, God, everyone's like, it's just logic.

It's actually not. The fucking tire tread. It's not logic. You have to remember that number. It is hard. It is hard. Is there a way, have we investigated

whether you could just do it on your own? What do you mean? Is there a way of throwing money at it and it's like being able to take the theory test with a purse of one on one on invigilator? That's such an Elizabeth Day solution. Okay,

can you do a private theory test. It comes to your house. Do you know what? I'm going to look into it. Look into it. God, if it was in my kitchen and when I'm in my sitting room, I'd be good. I really want to drive. I love driving. And I think it's probably the most growing up of all, do you drive?

Yes. How old are you when you passed? 17, but I didn't pass the first time. Fearless. That's when you're fearless. Yeah, I passed the second time. But I did find the theory test hard. And that was when?

1998. Please. It's not harder. Are you joking harder? Not one driver I know. can answer any question when I'm doing my research. Revising. Nikita, I have faith in you.

Thank you. Next time you speak. I'm not getting the spiritual read that I got with your baby. I'm afraid. But I do think you're going to do it. Because that's what I keep doing. I can see you driving like an open top jeep. Yeah, that's what I want.

Okay, well, that we go. God. Okay, I'm not speaking to you until I'm in that Jeep. Oh, no, please speak to me. No, I'm going to do it. I'm going to turn up at the house. Okay, perfect. Yeah.

I'm always such a pleasure to talk to you. And, you know, I've been on the receiving end of your interviewing and you are one of the best interviews I've ever had. Stop it! When we did it in Chelsea? Where were we? Cheshire. Yes. You were so brilliant. You interviewed me for my book friend Hollick and I wanted to try and repay the favour. It was just such a joy to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. It felt really good. I needed to be in this room today. You really did. Both ways. Yes. Thank you so much. Love you, Elizabeth. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and watching. This episode has been brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Please do follow how to fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends.

This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.