How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Mo Gilligan - Fatherhood Is A Gift I Didn’t Know I Needed

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Mo Gilligan started out working in retail (think Jo Malone and Levi’s) but quit in 2018 when his online comedy videos went viral. The leap paid off - sell-out tours across the UK, a late-night entertainment show on Channel 4 and his own breakout format The Lateish Show with Mo Gilligan, which earned him the first of three BAFTA wins. Netflix specials, world tours, primetime TV and a podcast soon followed. Now in 2026, Gilligan is launching the biggest year of his career to date with a global tour, a major new partnership with Netflix and a feature documentary which will offer a glimpse behind the scenes of the 37-year-old at the top of his game. In this episode, Mo opens up about being a dad to his six-month-old daughter and two-year-old son, the pressure of representing the Black British community in stand-up and the debt that shadowed him for years. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 03:51 Retail Experience and Its Influence 06:11 Audience Interaction and Respect 09:13 School Struggles and Dyslexia 18:14 Family, Fatherhood and Financial Lessons 25:19 The Standup Struggle 26:37 Credit Card Chaos 31:12 The Viral Breakthrough 33:35 Touring Triumphs and Tribulations 36:04 Code Switching and Representation 39:43 Handling Success and Praise 45:51 Family and Future Plans 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: I really wanna make people feel cool. I think it’s the nicest feeling ever. Knowing that I am my children’s universe... That is such a gift that I didn’t know I needed to have. I find it hard to listen to praise about myself. I find it very, very hard... I'm always trying to move on to the next one. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Get Mo’s tour tickets here: mogilligan.com/mo-live Mo’s new Netflix show is available to watch now: Mo Gilligan - In the Moment Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ 📚 WANT MORE? Ashley Walters - on growing up fast, struggling with self-destruction and how accountability, therapy and fatherhood helped him rebuild his life and career. Fun fact: Ashley and Mo both went to the same school and had the same inspirational drama teacher! swap.fm/l/ksDRiLDV1iOXHRTTsdJ5 Miranda Hart - on public embarrassment, private anxiety and chronic illness. Plus: how learning to accept herself became her greatest success swap.fm/l/oTScN30b80GflJtO4rgu Fern Brady - another stand-up who has experienced the precariousness of the industry and battled debt early in her working life swap.fm/l/cmeompBv7EHK20enmwbS 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Elizabeth and Mo answer listener questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to How to Fail. This is the podcast that believes a fail is simply a first attempt in learning. Before we get onto this episode, please do remember to like, subscribe and follow so that you never miss a single conversation. But it was only until probably I think I left school at like 16. I was like, oh, this thing is called dyslexia. I find it hard to listen to praise about myself. I'd find it very, very hard. How bad did it get this debt spiral?

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our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com slash fail. That's 15% off at Masterclass.com slash fail. Masterclass.com slash fail. My guest today was born in Lambeth, South London. His parents separated when he was five and he and his two older sisters were primarily raised on a council estate by his mum. He struggled at school but found refuge in drama. and making his classmates laugh. When he started taking his comedy online,

uploading satirical sketches of London geeseers and British emcees to Snapchat and Instagram, they went viral. And Mo Gilligan's career path was set. Soon he was performing set-out stand-up tours and by 2018 had migrated onto television with Channel 4's late-night entertainment show, The Big Nasty. In 2019, he fronted his own format,

the latest show with Mo Gilligan, which won him the first of three BAFTAs. He was so chuffed, he named his cockapoo, Baffy. Netflix specials followed, as did World Tour's Primetime TV and a podcast. Now, in 26, Gilligan is launching the biggest year of his career to date, with a global tour, a major new partnership with Netflix, and a feature documentary which will offer a glimpse behind the scenes of the 37-year-old who cites his comedy heroes as Dave Chappelle and Lee Evans. It's not bad for someone still three years shy of his 40th birthday

and for whom success was never guaranteed. Just 10 years ago, Giddigan was broke and grappling with credit card debt, taking every retail job he could just to make ends meet. I always worked in retail, Primart, the Apple Store, Rees, he recalls. It's all about how you sell the product. to them. When you do stand-up, it's like selling a piece of clothing, except that you're selling yourself. Mo Gilligan, welcome to How to Fail. Oh, wow, that was so nice. Hearing it all back and I was like, oh wow, like I've done all that stuff and that is me because it's quite easy to

forget a little bit. You were able to reflect. Yeah, I really appreciate that. Thank you. Oh, thank you for being so appreciative. Well, it's interesting that because reflection is something that you struggle with and it pertains to one of your failures, but we'll come on to that later. I wanted to start with you selling yourself. So if you were an item of clothing in Reese, how are you going to sell yourself to me? What is it that makes Mo Giddigan, Mo Giddigan?

I think it's a combination of things. I feel like you need a bit of charisma. I think charisma is definitely the thing that gets people's attention. I feel like you can make. anything can add a bit of charisma and a bit of jazz to wherever it is a black suit, but you make it look cool with a black shirt and you open up the tie and you do a black pocket square. So already you're like, oh, this is all black, but I see these little details in it. And I feel like that's what I've always tried to add to whatever I try to do. Do you know what I

mean? That when it comes to comedy, I want to make people laugh, but I also love a bit of music. I'm not a musician, but I want to add that little jazz to it just to be. make something so simple, just seems so seamless and quite fun. Transparency, I feel like when I worked in retail, the more I was transparent with a customer, the more they would buy. And I think that's how people buy into you. You know, the more trans, you know, I'd have customers in some of the places I work that I'd say, oh, I really want to get this item. And I'll be like and listen, I'll be honest, man. This one's basically the same, you know, it's half the price. And they sit there and go, what? Are you serious? Like, you shouldn't say that. And I'm like,

Yeah, but I'm just here to, I'm here to give you what you've come in for and that's just customer service. That's all I do. And I think it's the same with my stand-up. I've always tried to be transparent with my audience when I'm on stage. You know, when I talk about my special, I talk about going to L.A. And I was like, whoa, I'm in L.A. Here I am. But then quickly you're like, I don't know if I can fit into this mold.

I don't know if I'm cool enough because you have to be very cool. and there's the parties and you have to be great at networking and go into something. And yes, I'm great on stage when it comes to my craft and writing material. But telling me to go in a room and go and network with everyone by force, I can't do that. I just want to just talk to people. Hey, what's up? What did you do? How you find in the event?

So I think transparency is always in there. And then lastly, I guess it's just, I guess it's this old-fashioned charm. It's the smallest thing. I learned it actually weirdly when I worked in Joe Malone. Joe Malone, when we used to sell a product, they used to put this tissue paper and then spritz it. And it was like so jazzy. But you put it in it, you tied a bow.

And customers would be like, why did you do that? And so what we do is let's say they bought a candle, which is like lime basil mandarin. So you'd get that scent and you spray it on there. you put it in a bag, you stuff it and put a bow on it. And then customers say, why do you spritz it with that? Because when you open it, you know what it smells out straight away. And things like that used to make me sit and go, wow, that's so charming.

That's so nice to do for a customer. You don't have to. But those little things I always wanted to implement just within myself, but also what I do on stage, have a bit of charm. I have this segment when I jump on the stage and I ask people where they're from. And I say, I need single guys, because single guys don't ever make noise. And there's always one guy who goes, yeah. I'm like, oh, who are you?

What's your name? And I talk to him and I'll say, listen, I hope you, do you all the rest of your show and throughout the rest of the show, like, all the drinks are on me tonight. So it's about making someone feel really calling special in that moment. Because I think the audience see it as like, oh, he's going to get him. He's going to get him. But it's kind of, it's like an uno reverse. He's like, I am going to get him, but I'm going to make him feel like the coolest person

in the room and it goes back to retail like selling yourself. You've bought this item and now you feel like a million dollars. Hopefully you'll then go back and tell your friends and say, oh man, I met this guy and, you know, he said to put the pocket square and open the button. Oh, he's just mad, cool. And I think it's the, I learned a lot of that. I'm probably saying retail as well. That is such an amazing answer.

It was like you had for warning of this question. You know, it's amazing. Because when I was thinking of what my first question was going to me, I was like, that's quite a tough one. He just nailed it. But that reminds me of something that I read that you said about performing comedy to the black community. And I think you were asked a question

about whether you sort of poke jabs at the audience and you said, no, no, no, because my community, they get dressed up nice to come out and I would never disrespect them like that. I thought that was so interesting. Oh, yeah, I think my audience are predominantly a working class audience. I know they're the audience who wait a long time to come to shows.

They are like, I've got a babysitter. You know, Shanice got her nails done. Taran got his hair cut. And we plan to come to this event. We've even got a meal before. I feel like I'll be doing that audience of the service going out there and being like, hey, like, let me get you, let me get you, let me get you, let me get you because that's just never where I've found my joy on stage.

Don't get me wrong. Sometimes I've done this craft and there is someone who says something and I'm like, well, I've got to say something back. It's just the art of stand-up. It's the, it goes back to the old-fashioned, like, you know, you're the, the jester performing to the king a little bit. You know, if your audience see that you can't handle the pressure, If someone says something, then it's like, shrewp off with your head.

So I have to really prove to you all. It's like, oh, no, no, no. There's still a boundary here. But also, I really want to make people feel cool. I think it's the nicest feeling ever, as opposed to like, oh, if he's going to get you, he might get us. So let's not look at him. So I've always shied away from being a comedian that just wants to poke fun of my audience. Let's talk about where your comedy started

because it brings us to your first failure which is dyslexia but specifically asking for help in school because you didn't realise that's what you had and that sort of my understanding is what led you into wanting to make people laugh tell us about school first of all I'm so excited I get to speak to you because I live in Lambeth And I've also interviewed Ashley Waters, who I know is part of your story.

So tell us about school and what that was like for you. School was great. I went to a really good primary school, which is Dock-Kanilililil, so diverse. Like when I think of it now, I grew up with kids of all backgrounds, faiths, religions. And it helped because my mum worked there as well. So what did she do? So my mum was a teaching assistant. But all the kids would come up to me and be like, oh yeah, your mum's so cool, man.

And the older kids would be like, hey, hey, you're all right. Are your mo, oh, yeah, yeah, I know your mom's cool, man. And that was like a, oh, wow, man, like, people really like that. You know, on a Saturday, people would see my mom and just want to say hi. You know, the kids would be like, hi, hello. Yeah, hello, Mrs. Keen naked. And I'll be like, yeah, that's my mom. Like, I definitely had learning difficulties at that time as well.

I didn't really know I did. I used to just talk. And it was probably until I probably got about. I'd say about 8, 9, when the teacher then would say, yeah, you've got to sit on this table. And everyone else on the table had learning difficulties. I think that was the first time I really knew. Like, I knew that I kind of needed help. And then as I got a little bit older, I would then sit with a helper who sits with us.

He would sit with us and all the other children needed help. And that was that my first indication of like, oh, I want to be on that table. Them lot are doing the work by themselves, but we're kind of, we kind of have like a childminder on our table a little bit. But I'd always give credit to a primary school teacher that I had called Miss Dyett. She had a son who had a disability. So when it came to dyslexia, she was great at having learning and teaching methods that was different. I'd never seen before. It was incorporating colours.

and I always remember she used to tell these really, we'd have this story time. And I think that was the beginning of my like creativity because it was towards, you know, we'd have this, it was called silent reading. It was like, okay, silent reading. Everyone was, and I was like, I want to talk, man. I want to like tell this Biff, chipping kippoor story

to someone I'm sitting next to. But I never forget, she used to do this thing towards the end of the lesson and she told me, she'd read a book and she'd tell a story. And it was great because I started learning a book, about so many books, but it was the way she would act out the characters and the imagination. That for me as a kid was like, oh, this is really cool. There is a book called, it might be called the Railway Children, I think. And I remember her telling us that book, but she would act out the voices and everything.

And I was like, wow, this is so insightful, the way that you're turning this into a thing. And it's interesting how once I'd got to secondary school, you get a little bit more freedom now. And I've got some new friends. I think early on, I then got to, it's like, well, I've got art. I do like a bit of art. But I like talking and I like having a laugh with my friend Troy that I sit next to and Troy is quite like me. That freedom mixed with the stories of lack of a misty diet who tells these vivid, imagine

these stories from a book, you bring that together and it was this me wanting to entertain. people where I can talk and I can and I think that's where the neglect of not wanting to learn subjects I just wasn't interested in. I think anything I was interested in I was really I was there for it. Did you know you had dyslexia then? No. So I only really knew what dyslexia was once I'd left school and I was like, oh there's a thing for this because other than that we just, it was just called learning difficulties. So I used to. to go to this place in my school, which was for kids who had learning difficulties. But it was also this hubway. If you got sent out, you could go in there and be like,

oh, miss, I got sent out. They'd be like, oh, it's all right. You can go on the, go on the computer. So it was that, all right. So sometimes you'd be like, I don't really want to learn French, man. Because it was a lot of the teaching assistants who was in, who was in this learning center, it was like its own room. And they were so chill. It just felt like you was in this room and it was just like all your mum's friends. You'd be like, you're right, Mo, how are you? Oh, man, I got kicked out of French, man. You're like, it's all right.

Go on Google if you want, really. And you just go on Google images and type, like, type Lamborghinis, like, and then you'd be in there with all the other kids that clearly had learning difficulties and some of them might show it with being destructive in class. You might be talking. You might be a student who, you know,

was going through something. think, but a lot of the teachers didn't have the patients that they said, listen, get out. And we'd all just end up there in this hubb of, but it was only until probably, I think I left school at like 16. I was like, oh, this thing is called dyslexia. I didn't know that when I was 14. The reason that I mentioned Ashley Waters, because you were at Pimniko Academy. Yeah, he went to my school. And that's where he went to. Yeah, yeah. And you both have the same drama teacher. That's right. Yeah, Miss Simpson. Yeah. Tell us about Miss Simpson and the impact she had on Miss Simpson is incredible.

She is a drama teacher who felt like she knew the students. Like, and I'm not saying that the other teachers didn't, because there's some other great teachers in the school. Mr. Fern, he was our form to, our art teacher. He was just like mad call, just like so relaxed. But Miss Simpson was different because it felt like she knew the kids' environments and she knew what they could excel in. And she wouldn't force the kids who didn't want.

want to do the lessons to do it. It was like, oh, like, if you don't want to do drama, that's okay. But maybe you could help of setting up a scene. How about that? And that's showing a child that, like, hey, you know you're directing, but they, they don't know that. You don't know that when you're 13, 14. She always would just give everyone a job.

And it was a first teacher that really, like, planted a seed in me at a really young age. And she held me back. We had performed in our, in our, um, in our hall for one lesson. I used to love doing any of the plays where I could be like a character. One of my early inspirations was Robin Williams. I thought Robin Williams with like voices and impressions and Jim Kerry. They were like my two favorites.

And I'd probably say Eddie Murphy. And I used to love doing anything that was like a character or, you know, especially because we got to get the mats out. So if there was that time to get the mats out, it was like, all right, so you're going to hit me and I'm just going to fall. and that's going to be the thing that I get to do. Everyone got to leave in this one lesson. It was like, okay, cool, guys go to lunch.

And she said, oh, wait, wait, wait, I want to speak to you. And I thought how I'm in trouble. And she said, look, Mo, you're about to choose your subjects for GCSE. And I think you should really look at choosing drama. And I was like, oh, I said I really like drama. And she's like, yeah, you know, you're very, very good at it. But also, like, I feel like you have something with this. And you should look at pursuing it.

And that was the first teacher that has. told me like and said you're really good at this and that moment has never left me. I remember it very vividly. I really liked that. I was buzzing. I never forget it. And yeah, she is the reason why I am in the place where I am right now because I'd never had anyone tell me that before.

You were good at something. It definitely changed in my life because it was a point in my mind. life where I was, wasn't, I wasn't good at maths, wasn't good at English, didn't have the confidence of a child when it came to education where I felt like, oh, I'm smart. I didn't. I've always felt like I'm quite bright and I was all switched on, but at that age I never felt like, oh, I'm, I'm like a smart kid too. You know, it was like you're either academically smart or other. That was like the first moment of feeling like, oh, I belong. I don't have to just be books smart. Teachers can be superheroes and I think it's so special that you've paid tribute to two of

them there. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Starting something new can feel terrifying. Whether you're launching a new idea, brand, product or podcast, whatever it is, you can never be 100% sure it will work out. And at some point, you have to take a hugely performance. faith. Trust me, I know. When I started this podcast, I wasn't sure anyone would listen or even care. It would have helped me so much to have a partner like Shopify on my side to help.

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Delivery to our door? Just a hop, skip and a click away. And bought. No better feeling than when everything just clicks. Buy your car today on. Delivery fees may apply. I'm also interested in your parents. Yeah.

And your childhood away from school. We started off this conversation talking about charm. Yeah. And you chatted about your mom. But it sounds like your dad was very charming. too? Yeah, my dad is very smart. He's a very smart man. Like, I'm talking about book knowledge smart. He's very confident. But also, like, I think when it come to, like, things like fitness, I always get that from my dad. Because he used to do a lot of long distance running.

And people just see my dad in, in around, like, southeast or southwest London, because he'd wrap up his locks. He'd put on, like, a Nike track suit. and I say, yeah, track suit and you're talking like 25, 30 degree heat and you just see him running in South London and people are like, yeah, I'll see your dad, I see a dad running. Yeah, but I definitely think I get my charm

from my mum more so because my mum was very, like my mum is very charismatic where my mum kind of talks to people like she knows them. It sounds like a childhood safe in the knowledge that you were loved. Yeah.

But was it safe in other ways? Yeah, like I was, I lived in the area where everyone was kind of in the same environment. So a lot of working class families on a big council estate. And you had a lot of other council estates just next to it, basically. And in and around the area. And, yeah, everyone kind of looked out for each other. And what is fatherhood like for you now? Oh, fatherhood is great.

Fatherhood is so, like, it's like, It's the one part of life I never knew about until you experience it. No one can tell you you can't learn it in a book. It is experiencing it in real time. I think knowing that I am my children's universe. Like they learn from me, they see it from me. That's beautiful. When they grow up, it's whatever I tell them and they experience that they're only going to see from me.

and I think that is such a gift that I didn't know I needed to have and it's interesting with like my children where you know my daughter's she's so young she's like six months but like congratulations oh thank you like her thing is just touching my beard and they used to be a time where I'd be like okay cool I got and now I'm just I just don't care I just like she just wants to just touch it until she can grab it that's all she wants to do And it realized you're like, well, this is what this is for, for you heard to touch daddy's beard, do you know what I mean? And like my son is, he just turned two.

And he's at an age where like he's kind of, you know, he's talking and stuff. But, you know, went to take him to get his hair cut for the first time last week. And I, you know, the barbershop is a place that I spent many a Saturdays where my mom would do a shop and leave me there. And I'm like, I'm here with all the grown folk. And taking my son. to get his hair cut. And even before going in the shop, he was like, oh, no, I'm scared, I'm scared.

I'm like, oh, okay, so just sitting with him and seeing him experience in, you know, the barbershop essentially, which is a hub for, you know, the black male community where as a child you hear conversations that you're like, oh, wow, these are some grown conversations. But everyone gets treated the same one through in the chair. You can be an elderly man, you still get a haircut. You'd be a young kid. You still get your haircut.

And seeing him scared, but also knowing he just, you know, grabbed onto me and I'm his universe. I'm bringing him into my universe. So he's experiencing this in real time. And it's just those little like gifts of life that you sit there and you go, wow, this is this is an exciting moment in, you know, you get to see, experience it. I don't know. For me, it's like an out-of-body experience. If you ever watch a like a wildlife documentary, and you see the elephant going to the walk to the wall. to the waterhole for the first time

and it gets stuck and it's like it's all right because the mum elephant or the dad elephant knows how to get it out but this elephant doesn't know yet and it's like that elephant this is the universe and I'm going to show you how to do this and you'll learn in real time so the next time it happens

and I think that's what I really enjoy about fatherhood at the moment I really really enjoy that oh that's lovely oh thank you It really is. It's very moving. Your second failure is not learning about money as a teenager. And where that led you to.

So tell us about this, Mo. Sorry for the seamless link, from like the beauty of fatherhood to credit card debt. So you left school at 16. And was it after that that you started getting into money trouble? No, I think at 16, I'd... I stayed at school. I went to Sixth form, which was great. Sixth form, we had this thing called EMA, so you get a little bit of money, £30 every week. And then college. And then once I'd left college, it was probably university that I'd get this, you know, get a student loan. And I think because I stayed at home when I was at uni, I think if I would have got the experience of being on the campus and having to understand that I need a bit of money for my books and a bit of money to maybe go out and have a drink and this is what it's like to be broke. I had the comfort of being at home. So when I got my student loan, I come from a mentality of being, I wouldn't say

addicted, but it's definitely those shiny things that you're drawn into. It's like a magpie mentality of like, oh, I need that, that's shiny. And that's those materialistic things that you grow up never getting. But the minute you get money, that's the first thing you go straight to that. And that started when I was probably in uni because the minute I got my student loan the first day I got it me and a friend of mine Stephen we went shopping that was the first thing we were like oh my god we got our money

straight to Oxford Street we went to every shop you could think of and I just have been bags of bags and you know like now I'm out of place where if I ever get a lot of stuff and I go to a shop I'm like just chuck this all in one bag also most of the time I'm like this just get this all online anyway but this was at a time

I was like I've got a French connection bag I've got H&M bag I got JD Sports and I'm walking around Yeah it was just like fulfilling The things I couldn't have as a As a child of like I want those air max noughties I want to go in the shop And not really look at the price

Because I can just get that thing And I think I wouldn't say it started from there But the money management Was definitely The origin story from that point I'd probably say I think being in the job of stand-up didn't help because when you first start, you get paid cash in hand, which is amazing when you first tell a joke and a promoter says, oh, great, thanks a lot, man. There's 50 pounds.

And you said, oh, my God, I've just earned this money in my hand from telling some material. But because the job is so volatile where in your head, you're being told you're going to get paid 200 pounds. and the day before the show, the promoters, we didn't say enough tickets, shows cancelled. And now you're like, oh, I kind of got a phone contract out, though. And I kind of needed that money. And there's nothing you can do. You can't, there's no union.

You just say, all right, oh, all right, can you get in for the next one? When you've got to go to a show and you are in the middle section, you're only going to get paid £100 and £50 of that is going to be on a train ticket, the other 50 pounds is for that phone bill for the last month that you was meant to get, but now you're behind. So I think the art form that I chose also doesn't help for money management. You can definitely go down a bit of a kind of black hole. So yeah, you didn't get a credit card.

Yeah, and that just feels like free money. But you're like, it's not free because I should use this credit card for the emergencies of you know, I didn't get that gig where I was going to get 200 pounds. Use a credit card, pay the phone bill. But again, it's like, well, didn't do that gig, use a credit card, can now get some trainers and pay the phone bill and worry about the rest later. And then I think you just end up playing catch up. Also, I think because the career that you had chosen,

I'm imagining there were very few role models that you could reach for and think, well, that's how they did it. I mean, I don't know how many stand-up comics you actually knew. Yeah, that's a great point, actually. I think stand-up is this illusion where you just see it on stage and that's it. There isn't, it's only now probably the last 10 years that it's documented how much, you know, some of the top 10 comedians earn. But I think it's always kind of, comedians don't really talk about that.

You know, they're not trying to be the 20 million pound, sorry, 20 million, a movie, you know, an actor. That's not something that's spoken about within the depths of comedy. It's like, no, your job is to be funny. Also, you have to dress down as a comic. I was also told that it was like, no, no, no, don't dress up. You've got to give the appearance to your audience that, you know, you can't be too flashy. But then I also had the black circuit while I came from where it was like, No, you kind of have to be a bit flashy because you can't be raggedy.

Yeah. Like you have to like, so I had, you know, comics telling me, yeah, you want to wear a shirt and like some shoes. So then you're like, all right, I've got up my game. I've got to buy some shoes, get a shirt for my performance, some nice jeans, a t-shirt. At a time when you're like, I'm spent all my money on this outfit and I can't really wear it at the next one. How bad did it get this debt spiral? It got bad in terms of, once I got the, credit card. I didn't really understand the credit card. And plus I got a credit card, which

it was kind of aimed at someone like me. Do you know what I mean when it's like we're talking that I don't know. The interest was something stupid. It was ridiculous. 250% APR or something like that. And you're like, oh, at the time, you're like, that's mind the man. It's only until the year it kicks in. But then I'd borrow money from like a money lender, which was super. easy to do because again it's aimed at someone who doesn't have money and then I'd borrow money from another lender to then borrow them pay back the money and then when I'd get money from a gig or a show then I'd have to pay that money back out plus interest so it wasn't bad that in a sense that I was crippling in debt but it was definitely playing catch up where you're like I really need

this show to come through. And it was just hoping, you're like, please don't let it snow. I remember once I was at heart, it's going to snow. And it snowed. And all my shows got cancelled. And you're like, oh, man, I've missed out on £300. And that's at a time where I probably owed £300 back to like a money lender. So it's not, I never got into like, you know, the masses of debt, like 10 grand's worth of debt. But I was always big into things like trainers and a lot of streetwear fashion places like Supreme and and a ton of like Jordan crept. And they're things I've just liked and collected.

So it got to a place where it was just like, I've got to sell those nice trainers that I've always liked to make some money and pay back, whoever I need to pay back, or I need to get to this gig and I don't have the money. So let me sell this really nice coat that I've got because I can get the money back. So I did have an element of hustle at the same time

and not just, oh, I need to borrow money. I need to also hustle in a sense of I'm going to camp out for these trainers because chances are they're probably going to be worth over £1,000. And that money is at that flip of they only cost £200. I can even make £1,000 for those trainers, pay back some of the debt to the credit lenders and still have money for myself. So, yeah, it's like a level of hustle, but it's also not great at the same time. When was the first time you can remember not worrying about money?

I was on the bus and I just finished probably the first leg of my tour. 2016 was when everything really, no, 2017 is when it happened. 2016 was like the spark of doing a video that went viral. But at 2017, everything happened so quick. I'd quit my job. I went to America for the first time for a brand partnership. Sorry to interrupt. And the video that went viral, was it the MCs one that Drake?

Different types of MCs, yeah. Yeah. That was the one. Okay. Incredible. So that went viral. You quit your job. That went viral 2016.

December of 2016. Still working in retail. Last place I was in was Levi. And that was just due to getting the chance of, you know, small opportunities, BBC one extra. It was like, oh, why don't you come in and do like a, it's kind of like a demo to be a radio and they train you how to use the desk and I was going in there once a week. And that was like, oh, I could see that being my career path.

Again, all the videos keep going viral, but I'm still working in retail. And I just said, look, can I change some of these dates? And they just wasn't having it, you know, the manager at the time. So I just said, look, I'm just going to quit. And it was definitely this moment of like, Am I doing the right thing? Because part of me was like, if I'm going to do this, I have to do this. I can't have the comfort of having a retail job right now.

But I just knew there was something that was going to happen for me. And I did have this, I had this show that I used to do with my friends in Brixton in the Ritzie Cinema upstairs. And it was mainly their show and I'd hosted it. And I put it on my social media. I was like, oh, I'm going to be hosting this show. And for the first time, like, it like sold out. And my friends were like, oh, the show sold out. Okay, well, let's like split the money.

And I'd earned like 500 pounds through just splitting the money with my friends. And I was like, wow, I've just earned a lot. So I started doing my own small comedy shows, which I was still doing that before. And then that sold out. And I was like, oh, my God, like, I've earned more than I used to when I was even working at retail. And these are just my small shows that I'd do in Shortage. And, yeah, 2017, I then met, I went to a meet with, like, Live Nation had an idea for the tour and how I wanted it to be and where we could go to and how

we could grow it. And I was very transparent and being in those rooms of saying, look, I have an idea of how this can work. I'm not a social media act. I'm a stand-up comic. And they were like, cool, we worked with social media people before. It doesn't really work. And I was like, trust me, I have this idea. Small places, we start off up and down and then we just see what happens. Tour went on sale. London sold out in like two minutes. And in my head I was like, nah, it must be like a fake thing. Because I used to never believe that whole tour sold out, two minutes. I was like, no, only now that I know it works, how it works. I get it. But that year, I had all this viral success. But I was still technically broke. I didn't have any money.

And between the time of me putting the tour on and being on tour, that is the most brokers I've ever been. I couldn't put on any shows, didn't have any trainers to sell. It was like rock bottom. The worst financial place I think I've ever been. Even when I was in debt, I was still able to keep my head afloat. And I said to my manager, I was like, look, I'm doing all these shows. This is great.

But I am so broke. And now the credit card debt is really starting to pile up. And it did. actually at that point and she was like okay cool um you know we see because obviously like what we can do in terms of giving you like an advance i say in advance it was the tickets already sold and um through my main current account and then i get this text which was like oh you are um i was basically level of my overdraft limit and i was like well i never got this text before your your your your overdraft limit is at zero i got this text and i was like

what? It's always been like in the minus. And then I checked my account. And I was like oh my God, oh my God. And it definitely felt like a Willy Wonka moment. I've got the golden ticket. And that was like, I'd say that was like my first big check. Wow.

And yeah, I don't think. I've definitely had money worries, but not since that time, it's never been as bad as it was when I was younger. You talk a lot in your comedy about code switching and you do it in a very funny way. Oh, thank you. She's lucky, isn't it, given you're a comedian. But obviously there is, as with all the greatest comedy, this serious underlying point.

And I suppose I wanted to ask you how important it is for you to be a noticeably successful black British male comic. all of those things at once. It's a lot sometimes. There are times where I do have like a, this is a tiring job at times because I've been doing this job for almost, in terms of on a mainstream platform anyway, just over 10 years.

And sometimes it does feel hard because you still have to feel like you have to prove yourself in a place where you're like, oh, like, no, I've had my own show. And like, yeah, but I don't know if you can do the Brits. It's like, no, I've hosted live TV shows. Yeah, but I don't know if you can host a prime time show on BBC though. Is that, no, no, I've got a bath though.

Yeah, but for that. Yeah, and it does feel like you do definitely have to keep constantly proving yourself because the minute I started getting success, it was almost this, yeah, but you're only there because you're taking a box, essentially. Who's saying that to you? These are things that you would see online, you know, if you get, like, for example, when you win a BAFTA, you'd get some people that would say, oh, yeah, but you know, you're just ticking a box. That's why you've got to, you know. And those things are sometimes hard to muster because you're like, no, like I'm really good in my field, you know.

Like, not even trying to hype myself up, but I put a lot of time and effort into the execution of something that feels so seamless and so effortless when it's displayed on television. And that is sometimes quite hard. There is also the pressure of being on, you know, platform TV, knowing that you have to represent your community in a space that isn't always represented. But also you're in the forefront of mainstream television on a Saturday night where little boys and girls up and down the country are not seeing someone that feels like, oh my God, he looks like my dad or my uncle or like he looks like my neighbor. oh wow, that is, I've not seen this on television.

There is a lot of pressure that comes with that. But also sometimes I do lean into that pressure because I think it is that pressure that is sometimes the fuel that lights the fire in me sometimes. Yeah, you know, there are times where you do sit there and you're like, oh, I need to just chill out. I just want to have some time off and just chill out a little bit, you know, because sometimes when you are doing a press run and, you know,

the first time going on the red carpet. And it was like, no, let me ask you, you know, drill music and, you know, knife crime. Like, what do you think about that? And you're like, why? Why? What are you asking me this for? Why? Like, like, and I'm like, I don't know why I'm getting arks this because I know any of the other counterparts that are on this show are not going to get arcs that.

But also knowing that I am also a voice for a community that doesn't also get their voices heard as well. that feels like a lot of responsibility, but at the same time it's also quite enriching as well to be on a show and be unapologetically myself. That's also the privilege that comes with the pressure. Beautifully put, and I often think that the metric of true success is that ability to be yourself

and show up as yourself in every single part of your life. Yeah, yeah. And you have had the most deserved, an astonishing decade. It was a pleasure doing the research this interview because I was like,

wow. I don't think I've ever had a triple bathtub winner. But your third failure is such an interesting one is almost your failure to appreciate those moments, as you put it,

not appreciating my career breakthrough moment as it was happening. Almost because you were too busy, you were too driven. Tell us about that. Do you struggle with it still? that acknowledgement piece?

Yeah, I do a lot. I think I'm always trying to move on to the next one and when the next one, when is the next one and the next thing. I don't know where that comes from. I think maybe because, again, it's the pleasure of being myself. I don't have to put on a mask or pretend to be someone I'm not. It's just like I'm being myself. and I also want to take myself to this space and that space and that space and that space and that space.

And this is how I'm going to execute and do it. So I think that's why I don't enjoy those moments of reflection of, you know, a big high, a big show, a success, a win at times. Only recently I have had to really stop myself and say, no, MoLak, enjoy that, man. That was, you've enjoyed that at the time. I had that last year actually. I had a show at the O2 and I was on a hive for like two weeks and that does not normally happen.

Normally it's like, oh, that show was great last night and all right, we go back to the next one. So I am trying my best to really live in the moment and be in the present. I don't dwell on the past much but I'm trying my best to enjoy more in the moment and really enjoy like those small moments that I've had in my career. I think that's why when you was saying the introduction, I was sitting there like,

oh wow, that is hitting some string in my heart that I've not really taking the time to acknowledge and hear those things and reflect on him and say, oh wow, that is that is me. I find it hard to listen to praise about myself. I find it very, very hard. If someone says, oh, well done, you're really good. I'm like, yes, I've had it from my teacher, but I do find it a bit like, oh, yeah, cool, thanks anyway. Anyway, as we were saying, I find it very, very hard to accept. I don't know where that comes from.

You know, sometimes I've been in rooms. I remember we speaking a little bit about LA. I remember going to CIA once the agents I used to have out there. I was going to visit my agent at the time. He's like, yeah, come in. The whole team want to meet you. And I was like, oh, great. And I, you know, go into this room, walking.

And it was this long board room. And they had a picture of me on the wall. And it's like, welcome, okay. I can see it. And all these people around the table who do something different. And they're technically like your agent. It's like, hey, what's up? My name's Brad.

I'm going to be your, your, literally, your agent for publishing. And hey, what's up? Sports. I'm your guy. If you're going to get in like e-sports, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, dude, love your stuff. And everyone's kind of telling me what they do. But then they're also like, oh, my God, I'm inscripting.

I love your stuff. I work with like Jamie Dimitri. I'm so funny. Staffless flats. Such a pleasure to have you. You're so arson. And I was sitting there like, it was so hard for me to take all this in one by one and see my picture and then sit

next to my agent. And they're like, so. And they're like, so, Mo, tell us about yourself. And I'm like, oh, this is weird. I've not been in this space before. And I just started triveling up very slowly because I just, it just felt like. like a bit too much. I don't know. I think there's definitely like a British thing in that as well. But also just hearing all these people one by one say something nice or praise me or someone

be like, oh my God, do early stuff, a couple of cans. Love that stuff. If you want to know like some social media stuff, your metrics, all the data, dude, you're crushing it. And I was like, bro, please, can we stop? Let's turn this off. It was too much. But no, I do shy away from that a lot. It's so interesting because in a way it's a paradox because you can get up on stage and have all of the attention on you or at least on your performance. But for me, what it's making me think of is that kid who was on a separate table from all the other kids in his class and might not feel deserving.

Yeah. Yeah. Massively, when I'm on stage, I am definitely a caricature of myself. I am the same person. That person on stage is a showman, the charm, the charisma, the effortlessness of doing this comedy thing. But as soon as I get off stage, I go back to being me in a sense of like, okay, cool, I just, the show's done now. I definitely love meeting people that come to the show and say, hey, thanks for coming. But I also have to switch that on and hype myself up for that a little bit as well.

But yeah, you know, if anyone's ever come to my work in progress is I now leave my shows as soon as I've come off stage. It's the thing that I love the most because I just like being home and just being, you know, with like my girlfriend and the baby. Like, but I definitely want, if you ever see me walking through, I'm like, and I just like, oh, hey, you're right. I don't, you're right. Cool. I just want to. Yeah, I do find that quite hard a little bit sometimes. What do your parents think of your success?

My mum loves it. I think my mum is living it with me, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, the minute, every time I'm on anything, my mum says, oh, I watched you on, you on this morning. You was good on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm watching. Marsing, I've got my snacks.

And then my mum still asks me, she's like, so who is that then? And I'm like, Mom, I can't tell you. In the Mars Cirr. Like, I can't ish, but I'm like, I know my mum wants to watch it and enjoy it. Hence where I'm like, I say, mum, I can't tell you. You know, you got not allowed, you know. And your dad? I think my dad thought I would go more into sport because when I was young, probably I say young as a teenager.

I really used to like football. And I kind of knew that I was that I don't think I make it pro at this age. I'm 14. I thought I was always good. But I think he thought I may go more into that. but it never really materialised. So when I kind of told him I was like, I'm doing this performing arts thing,

he was a bit like, oh, okay, that's different. I didn't have that in, you know, my Mo Giddigan son bingo card, but here we are. You must be so grateful to them for many things, but particularly for being called Mo, because you have had so many puns, show names, momentum, it's moat.

Do you think you'll ever run out? No. I'll be honest. At first, it was definitely, it's weird because the first tour was called a couple of cans tour and that was only because of the character.

Yeah. But for the special, the team at Netflix were like, yeah, you know, we don't know if we can call this like a couple of cans because this is a guy, Minnesota going to know this.

My Edinburgh show was actually going to be called Momentum. And I was like, let's just call it. momentum. And it was testament to the time where I was like building up this momentum. And yeah, and it's quite interesting because whenever I name a new tour show, I'm like, uh, Mo, Mo in the moment, there's Mo to Life. Mo, Mo, monumental. I just sit in the car and I'm like, that's, that's a tour. Like my manager was like, what are we calling this tour? And I was like,

no, in the moment. There we go. That's the one. This is. It's not mess around. Well, Mo Gilligan, it has been such a pleasure spending these moments with you. And that's why they don't pay me the big box. It really, really has. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much.

This has been such a fun, like, refreshing podcast to do. I've really, really enjoyed myself. So thanks to have me on. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day in Sony Music Entertainment original podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.