How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Nicole Scherzinger - ‘I’ve never felt I’m enough’

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

Nicole Scherzinger became famous as part of The Pussycat Dolls - one of the biggest selling female groups of all time - but it almost didn’t work out that way. For years, she was a jobbing singer and dancer who learned how to deal with rejection from a succession of failed auditions. Yet her resilience - and her work ethic - shone through. Now, after a highly acclaimed run in London,  Nicole is set to storm Broadway as Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard. We spoke about the curse of perfectionism and her struggles with being in the present; how she stayed for too long in past romantic relationships and how her role as a judge on X Factor helped form One Direction, which means Nicole is, in fact, indirectly responsible for Harry Styles. And for that, we can thank her forever… As always, I’d LOVE to hear about your failures. Every week, my guest and I choose a selection to read out and answer on our special subscription offering, Failing with Friends. We’ll endeavour to give you advice, wisdom, some laughs and much, much more. Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly Studio Engineer: Gulli Lawrence-Tickle Mix Engineer: Josh Gibbs Senior Producer: Selina Ream Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This podcast puts failure in the spotlight and asks us what we learn from the moments in life that don't go according to plan. Because I firmly believe that most failure can teach us something if we let it.

Every week I talk to a new guest about the times they failed and had their perspective on life and what success really means was shaped along the way. And please do join me after this episode on Failing With Friends, my subscriber series where I tackle your failures and questions. This week, I'm flying solo and I'll be looking at your failures around a lack of traveling and a reality TV obsession. Now, is that really a failure? You need to tune in to find out. And I would love to hear from you. If you'd like to get in touch, follow the link in the podcast notes. Get Failing With Friends episodes every week and all episodes of How To Fail ad-free. Just visit the How To Fail show page on Apple Podcasts

and click start free at the top of the page to begin your free trial. Just before we get started, I wanted to flag that I am on tour and I am doing a very special date in the London Palladium on the 21st of March. My interviewer is going to be podcast royalty and vegan sweet king Jamie Lang it's going to be so much fun I always have the best time when I talk to him there's a scattering of tickets still available and if you'd like to book just go online to www.fane.co.uk forward slash elizabeth hyphen day and I hope very much to see you there. My guest today is a modern day icon, a woman whose performances have earned her acclaim

and celebrity and whose own tastes have done much to shape popular culture. Her recent star turn in the West End revival of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard garnered rave reviews and an Evening Standard Theatre Award for Best Musical Performance. Born Nicole Valiente in Honolulu of Filipino, Hawaiian and Ukrainian descent, her father left when she was two years old and she later took the surname of her stepfather, Scherzinger. At 14, Nicole Scherzinger was cast in her first professional play and later won a scholarship to major in theatre arts but it was music that would make her famous as the lead singer of the Pussycat Dolls she was instrumental in that group selling over 55 million records worldwide

in latter years her stints as a reality tv judge on both The X Factor in the UK and The Masked Singer in the States had brought her a whole new audience, but her true love remains the stage. Accepting her recent award for her portrayal of fading star Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, Scherzinger said the part had come at the exact right time. Adding, I now realise looking back that everything that's happened in my life and all the pain and all the struggle and all the confusion and all the emptiness and all the loneliness and all the fight was for a reason. I feel like I'm back where I was born to be. Nicole Scherzinger, welcome to How to Fail. What a quote. What a quote. It is exactly what this podcast is about. That idea that all of your struggles have led you where you were born to be, which is back on stage as Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard. How are you? Let's start there. Let's start there. I am good. I'm tired and exhausted, but at the same time, I'm fulfilled.

And I'm happy because I feel like I'm finally living my full potential and I'm in my purpose. How about that? Good morning, everyone. And that idea of vulnerability, because I imagine you really have to empty your soul every night on stage in this particular role. And as an artist, I think performance must be quite a tricky thing to get right sometimes because you need to have what Beyonce would call her Sasha Fierce, her onstage persona, but you also need to tap into something deep within you that is raw emotion. How are you managing to balance that with this role of Norma Desmond? No ego and stripping everything back. And as Jamie would say, Jamie Lloyd would say, being brave and then being braver. I've had to take away all vanity, all ego, all of my fears, and to actually strip that away, but also to embrace them,

all of those fears and all those insecurities, and to just bring them all to the work. fears and all those insecurities and to just bring them all to the work. It is quite cathartic. Actually, I was talking to Madeline and Andrew Lloyd Webber about it last night, how they were telling me that Glenn Close had sometimes found it hard to really disconnect and to come down maybe from being Norma Desmond after the show. And I said, well, what's so beautiful about the work that I've done with Jamie is he's really allowed me to bring myself to the role. And we've bridged the gap. I've just found Norma Desmond within me. So it's actually been quite cathartic and therapeutic to stand on stage every night and say, this is all of me. This is the fun parts,

the silly parts, the loud parts, the demanding parts. And then these are the ugly parts. And these are the broken parts. And these are the crevices of my darkness, you know, and to just put it all out there. Do you think this is a part that you could have played younger, as in when you were younger? Absolutely not. I could have sung the music because for some reason I came out of my mother's womb singing and understanding music. That's my best way I know how to communicate. But everything in my life has led me to play this role. All of the life experiences, all of my struggles with my own demons in relationships, in career, in work, my own mind, tormented mind like Norma Desmond has really led me to be able to truly play this role so

authentically. Every night I pray when I sit on stage, people may or may not see me, but I'm in the back and I'm in the dark. I pray and I meditate and I say, help me to tell the most truthful, honest, authentic story that I can. Thank you for sharing that. You are something of an icon for me personally, because we are born in the same year, 1978. Oh, when is your birthday? November, 10th of November. Oh, so I'm older. But you would not know it. And that's what I mean. You, for me, have really shown the empowerment of age in so many ways. I mean, obviously you are knockout beautiful, but I feel that you are only just getting started. And I feel like that in my forties too. Does that resonate with you?

A million percent, you know, people talk about ageism. I said, okay, listen, I think the failure, the tragedy is that I'm 45 years old. I've never been more fit physically. I've never been more wise in my mind. I've never been more focused. I've never been more determined. Everything I've gone through in my life. So what is ageism? It's such a negative thing that we put too much focus and power on. So I was thinking about this and I was like, what's the opposite of ageism? And I was like, the opposite of ageism is agealicious. Yes. It's just the Scherzinger phrase. I love a Scherzinger phrase. Agealicious. It is celebrating who you are, everything that brought you here, right? Who you are, where you are right now. And that is called life, you know? and it's just like celebrating. This is our prime. I'm better than ever. You're

better than ever. We're wiser than ever. We're stronger than ever. We're braver than ever. We're bolder than ever. We're more unapologetic, more courageous than ever. This is the time. I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think, when I was doing X Factor, I think it was like 25. Once you're 25, that's you're in the overs. Even the category name, the overs, is so harsh. I know. Isn't that crazy? So like only 25 people who are 25 and below, they're the only people that count, that only need music and art.

No. The whole world is so, right? Yeah, I could not agree more. And actually, before we get onto your first failure, I had not fully understood until it came to doing the research for this interview, how much you have shaped popular culture. Because I watched all of The X Factor when you were a judge, you were amazing. But when I put it all together, you were behind Ryland, James Arthur, and Forming One Direction. So really, without you, there's no Harry Styles. Pretty much. I'm waiting for my cut. That's an old joke. Have you always, do you think, had instinct about what makes great art in others as well as

in yourself? I think it's going to sound really bad. Like when you have it, something within you, and I believe we're all chosen for various reasons, right? Everyone is chosen, has a great purpose for various reasons. But when you have that something, you can then recognize it within someone else. You see it. I don't know how I fell into that job. I fell into it accidentally because I think, I believe, bless dear Cheryl Cole got ill and they needed me to fill in. And I was doing boot camp and I was like, listen, I just came from the Pussycat Dolls. These guys, we have too many boys in this category that are too good, but it's a shame to let go of these guys.

They're gonna be stronger together as a group, Simon. We've gotta create a group. And at that time, there wasn't any groups like that. There were more man band groups like Take That and like Westlife and Backstreet Boys. And we didn't have any younger groups. So I don't know. I'm a visionary. This is why Simon keeps me in his back pocket. I'm just joking. No, I just think that when you have that thing, you're able to see it within others. And I'm so proud of everybody. So happy for everyone. I mean, Rylan is doing so brilliant.

I also had my sweet John Main that year. It was Rylan, John Main, and James. And he's like my angel. He's like my little brother and my little lamb that he is like still in my life. And then James, all the success that he's had in One Direction and Harry Styles, all the boys from One Direction are having wild success. So I'm grateful that I could be a part of pop culture second. Then join me, Hunter Harris. And me, Peyton Dix. The host of Wondery's newest podcast, Let Me Say This.

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and get to the heart of what really happened to Thomas Beckett by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit. Let's get on to your first failure yay because we're here to celebrate vulnerability and authenticity and that's how we learn and grow and evolve exactly your first failure is to do with the struggles that got you where you are today I, I think it was around 2008, I was in New York City and I was with my manager at the time and I had worked so hard on this demo and this portfolio with pictures and I even did my own music video and songs that I recorded and original songs that I recorded. I was shopping it around,

determined to get a solo deal. I went around to every record label. And during that day, it was the actual blackout, the big blackout that happened in New York City. And there I was in Arista, top of this building, blackout happens, the execs running around. I'm singing my song, Acapella, in the dark. And he's like, keep going. And he's like grabbing his stuff, freaking out. And then he just bolts out of the door and goes down the fire escape, as you do in New York City. And that was my last, and then my audition. Couldn't cut a break. No one would pick me up. And I was really down about that. But what was great is that I still had that portfolio. So when I had heard about the Pussycat Dolls audition, I was fully equipped to give them my music and everything. And the rest was history. So that happened with PCD. I don't think people realize that for a long time

before the Pussycat Dolls, I was first in a group called Popstars. And first I was in an actual rock group, acoustic rock group signed to Geffen Records called Days of the New and we toured with like Foo Fighters and Bush and everything. Then I was in Popstars. And then I was trying to go solo. And that led me to The Dolls. People don't realize- The journey. Yeah. All the doors closed. Yes. Because you dropped out of college to tour with that rock band as well didn't you yes I did and then pop stars was the reality tv show and you formed Eden's Crush off

the back of that yes and I didn't know either so I'm really glad that you've shared that story the idea of doing an audition in a city-wide blackout in aout. And then having to pick yourself up and try again. Keep trying and keep, I just, yeah, when you have, you have to believe, you have to have that vision and you just can't let go of it. Cause if you could see it, if you could dream it, then it could happen. And so I just never let up. And then the dolls came along that audition. never let up. And then the dolls came along that audition. And what's cool is that I never imagined that's how I would get my first break. And I actually signed a solo deal the same day as I signed the dolls deal. So I'm just saying things come in different boxes, not when you expect them, right? For me, I'm very spiritual. So I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger

imagination than we could ever. We actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think For me, I'm very spiritual, so I like to say that God has bigger plans and a bigger imagination than we could ever. We actually limit ourselves with how we think. So sometimes we think like, okay, I want to go this way. And it's like, no, you're actually aligned and meant to go that way. And that's going to get you to go back that way. Does that make any sense? It makes total sense. And I'm a big believer of it as well. The things that haven't worked out for me personally, I strive to try and learn the meaning behind that and the purpose that might be disguised within that struggle like things aren't happening one of my favorite lines is it's not happening to me it's happening

for me I want to talk a little bit about your work ethic because what listeners to this podcast might not appreciate is that you turned up with notes that you had made pages and pages yellow full-scalp notes that you had made in preparation for this podcast I'm so appreciative of that and I recognize that quality in myself and again I think maybe a lot of women yeah I can see that as you're like telling, reminding me of my own career and my track record. I'm like, wow, she knows more about myself than I do. But I think a lot of women or maybe marginalized people in some way feel that they need to over-prepare in order to be able to show up, in order to be able not to be underestimated by mainstream culture. And I want to ask you about that, but I also just want to go back to your childhood. How much do you think your work ethic is shaped by how you

grew up? Because you didn't have a lot of money growing up. So were you always aware of the need to work, to make a living? Absolutely. When you grow up not having any money and your family is struggling, it's kind of embarrassing. It's really embarrassing. And as you get older, I thank God every day that I came from nothing because it's what made me. It's what shaped me. It didn't break me. It made me. What doesn't break you makes you. me. It made me. What doesn't break you makes you. And it's built me to who I am today. And I do have that very strong work ethic because of it, that insatiable work ethic. I think it runs in my blood as well, my Hawaiian, Ukrainian, Filipino blood. It runs in our blood. But I'm super grateful for it because I don't take anything for granted. And I always feel like I'm super grateful for it because I don't take anything for granted. And I always feel like I'm always striving for excellence and greatness. I think it could drive some of the people who work around me crazy because I'm like, it could always be better.

I still tell Jamie, I can do better. I know I can do better. I just always want to strive for greatness and excellence. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not making it count and I'm wasting my time here of what I'm supposed to truly be doing. Does that manifest itself in your romantic relationship? I think so. I think sometimes it could be unhealthy in that way when not only in a romantic relationship, but also with the relationship with yourself where you work too much that you're not able to celebrate those wins and those victories and just truly be present and be happy and be in awe and enjoy those moments, you know?

There was this quote I read that made me sad about, I think one of your first parts that you got aged 14 was the lead in Alice in Wonderland. And you had said, I couldn't believe that I got this part because I was up against a blonde girl with blue eyes. Is that a feeling that has stayed with you, that feeling of not looking the part or not being some way that someone else is well I think that's what's so beautiful now of where we've um progressed uh into this day and age you know I'm playing Norma Desmond you know and people might have not I think I saw Leah Salonga and I started the other day said three Filipinas are now leading, unleading roles on the West End. Like it's never been like that in history, you know? So we've come a long way since then. But back then,

yeah, that was unheard of. But my teacher, Ms. Mateus was so radical in the way that she thought and she just defied, she broke all the rules and she didn't care. And she looked at me and she's like, that's Alice in Wonderland. And that was many moons ago. I mean, gosh, I'm 45 now. That was what, 26 years ago. I mean, so kudos for her for being so forward thinking and giving me that opportunity. But yes, the fact of the matter was, because back then it was like that. You know, I was like a little brownie.

I didn't look like everybody else in Louisville, Kentucky growing up. But that's what the blessing was, is that it makes me so unique today. And at the time, what were your parents thinking of your ambition and your vision to be? They just let me go. of your ambition and your vision to be. They just let me go. They knew when I was like six years old and I heard the greatest love of all, Whitney Houston was like the voice of God to me. And I just, they knew that I had my own ambitions.

I was always had this dream and vision and they just supported me. Like I said, we didn't come from much. So it's not like they're like, go and be a doctor or a lawyer. They're like, wow, you're taking the wheel. Hi, I'm Matt Lewis, historian and host of a new chapter of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit. Join me and world-leading experts every week as we explore the incredible real-life history that inspires the locations, the characters and the storylines of Assassin's Creed.

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Available for a limited time at participating Wendy's in Canada. Taxes extra. Let's get onto your second failure because it relates to so much of what we've been talking about. And it's your failure to put your own needs first. That sense of compromising our self-worth sometimes so tell me why you pick this as a failure my mother would always say don't don't compromise yourself that was one of the things she wanted me to one of the things she would say to me growing up and I think I have found myself compromising my self-worth, my value, my emotional needs a lot of times in relationships. I never like, my name, Nicole, actually means victory. So I never like to play the victim role. I always like to make everything,

you know, something positive, victor. In turn, what I'm saying is I've compromised feeling those ways and not putting my needs first, my emotional needs first, and that self-worth in relationships. And in the end, I think that the biggest failure is I've compromised myself in the relationship with myself. Yeah, that's something that I work on constantly and I'm still working on. It's not compromising my self-worth and my value and my emotional needs and putting other people's firsts. Do you struggle to believe that you are worth your own love? Yes. I think if we break it down, a lot of people, you know, it always comes back to self-love, right? And I think it's easier said than done, but I think that we're very hard on

ourselves. I know I was always very hard on myself growing up and I was are perfectionist and not thinking I was ever enough or nothing was ever enough. And I'm working on that every day. It's very interesting, all of these things that happen in our lives. I think they say, what is it like? You're shaped by the time between the ages of three and eight, is it? Yeah, I think up to the age of three three and eight is it yeah i think up to the age of seven or eight it's really formative yeah so it's a lot of what goes on how your atmosphere what was going on in your how you grew up and my home growing up when I was younger wasn't always a very healthy atmosphere. And because of that, as a child, when you see a lot of things going on, do you put your needs last? does that make sense to be the peacemaker to calm things or to try to make things better if you see your parents under a lot of stress or fighting and you know i'm so sorry to hear that nicole no no no i think every i think you know i i'm so grateful because my family has made me who

i am how i grew up has made me who i am and i grew grew up has made me who I am. And I grew up in a lot of love, you know. But no, no, I don't think any household is perfect. I mean, I'm only sharing that because if other people are out there. I learned later on, I was like, why am I not able to maybe set some boundaries in relationships? Or why don't I put my needs first and I only ever care about what the other person wants and thinks of me and making them happy? And I found out it was because when I was younger, having to be in that sometimes volatile atmosphere to be like, your needs don't really matter. You have to make sure they're okay does that make sense we're getting psychological and deep i welcome it but i'm hoping that maybe

can help someone else definitely and i relate very deeply to it in ways that i will go on to tell you but when you are describing your the childhood atmosphere and you say it was volatile. Was it physically volatile, emotionally volatile, both? Emotionally, more emotionally. Yeah. And one of the things, and I hope this isn't overstepping, but I wanted to ask you was, I speak to a lot of incredibly successful people and you are one of them. And many of them have fathers that left or that weren't around in some way. And there is a sense, I think, deep-rooted that they want to prove they would have been good enough for their father to stay. And I wonder if you have also maybe thought that in relation to

your own psychology. Well, I definitely have abandonment issues. And that is because my actual biological father did leave me, I think when I was three. And so I didn't think it would ever affect me, but I guess somewhere it did affect me. And so I definitely have my own issues with that, for sure. I have really strong abandonment issues, unfortunately, which is wonderful for my character, Norma. See, it all ties back to that. It brought me back and Norma has huge abandonment issues. She feels so abandoned in her life, so empty, so lonely, and it all just ties into it. It was just a line meant to be that I was meant to play this role one day totally because celebrity I can imagine can feel like acceptance and love but as Norma Desmond shows it's not the kind of wholesome solid rooted love that we actually need and when I say that I relate to what you're saying I really really do So I was a total people pleaser throughout my teenage years, my twenties, I ended up married to the wrong person. We got divorced. And the most important thing for me at that time

was that they were happy and their needs were catered for. And then they would never leave me because I was trying to be perfect. And I, and I'm glad that you said that. And it's the word is you don't want them to leave. You just want them to stay. Yeah. I believe in relationships, whether good or bad is happening, you always can grow from it. And you need to learn more about yourself. And I like to take ownership of responsibility in that, you know.

So, and I learned so much from that. A relationship is not a failure just because it ends. Absolutely. Oh no, you're learning way more about yourself. Way more about yourself. You get what you tolerate. Yes. That's so good. Don't tolerate it. Don't tolerate it. Or if you tolerate it, that's what good so don't tolerate it don't tolerate it or if you tolerate it that's what you'll get yeah and also the other thing that I think is great about being the age that we are is that I

look back and those relationships that ended that I thought I would never be able to survive their ending spoiler alert I did survive and that makes you feel really strong and I guess life will go on and like you said it makes you feel strong if it doesn't make you feel strong that makes you feel really strong. And I guess life will go on. And like you said, it makes you feel strong. It doesn't make you feel strong. It makes you feel even stronger because when all is said and done, you're like, I'm better off now. But that's good because that's how you live and you learn. This whole podcast was born out of a breakup, but it's a story that I'll tell you another time. All the best things that I've ever, most of the best things I've ever, ever, ever created in my life were born out of breakups. Always. My heart is my everything. It's what I lead with is my

heart. I'm more heart than mind, but that's the beauty, how to fail. You come back even stronger, baby. You come back successful. You come back making a difference how to fail. You come back even stronger, baby. You come back successful. You come back making a difference in the world. You come back inspiring and encouraging and empowering others. That's how you fail, the right way. Thank you for saying that. And right back at you. I just want to know from my own peace of mind, you're in a really good relationship now. Yes. That feels safe. Yes. I think safety is so romantic. It's funny. I did a Tony Robbins seminar once, right?

I loved it. And he said, what is the one thing you really want in life? We all wrote down. People are like, happiness, money, success, joy, peace. He's like, you know what people really, really want? They want security. They want that security and they want that safety. And when you have that safety and security, then the happiness, then the peace and everything else comes with it. So, but I think it takes a lot of work on yourself to get there, to be able to be

as whole as you can be to come into a relationship, you know? So I've had to do a lot of work on myself and I continue to do it, which is why I have the notes. I'm always wanting to grow and learn and be better. It's a beautiful quality. Before we get onto your third and final failure, and be better. It's a beautiful quality. Before we get onto your third and final failure, what's your relationship like with fame? Like what is it like being as famous as you are? It's kind of weird. Like I think that if people really know me, the first thing they say is they're like, wow, you're so like down to earth and so chill. And I think that comes from, I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm a Hawaiian girl at heart, you know, an island girl. And I think that comes from, I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm a Hawaiian girl at heart, an island girl, and I have a brilliant family and friends. I just have the most beautiful

family and friends. So that kind of really keeps me grounded. Also, my faith really keeps me super grounded. So I try not to let it get to my head is what I'm saying with my relationship with fame, right? I care less about the fame and more about the substance, the quality, the meaning behind things, right? And the purpose. But on the flip side of that, yo, I'd be loving the swag when people be sending me stuff or if I get into like, I mean, it's so hard to get into Deschutes, okay? Can you get a table in Deschutes? You're not allowed to reserve that. Can I get a chicken ruby, please?

And then I actually was able to get in. You have made it. Officially, you have made it. So those are the little perks, right? Yeah. No, it's great. And the UK here is so good to me. Like people are just so loving and it's great.

I love all those little perks. Look, when you come from nothing, you're just like, yes, I'll take it. I'll celebrate Amala wins and victories. I adore that you're honest about that. I'd be exactly the same. Your final failure, and we've touched on it in various ways, but it is being too much of a perfectionist and too much of an overthinker. What do you think is one example in your life where that has really, you're kicking yourself that you weren't in the moment? I mean, definitely with the dolls, you know, what a beautiful journey that was. If I could go back,

I wished I was in the moment to enjoy it because I really didn't as much. I think the girls knew that too, that I was always struggling. So what was the experience of being in Pussycat Dolls like? It was crazy. I was so young. We were all so young. And my neurotic brain just never shut off. So I wasn't really living ever in the present. I think that was my biggest failure back then was not enjoying the fruits of our labor. And we worked so hard, but I loved the girls. We were really a sisterhood, always will be, I believe. And we are one of the most successful girl groups internationally in history. 55 million records sold. I loved, I was really proud of the work that we did, the music that we did with the honor of having Ron Fair

and Jimmy Iovine produce that. And I loved the music and that we were able to connect with people all around the world. It's crazy to think about it. As those things happen and it's so fleeting. You say, oh my God, I can't take these things for granted and I really have to enjoy it now while it's here. It's crazy because, I mean, there's a couple of things that we're covering here, overthinking, overanalyzing, being perfectionist. Look, it's just great because you just never know.

You got to lose, I think when you overthink and you're overanalyzing, that's your attempt to control things. And you have to be braver than that and have a bigger faith than that because there's bigger things out there for you. For example, there were many roles that I had in mind for musical theater. When the pandemic happened, the whispers of my heart came to me and I was like, okay, I need to get back to the stage. That's what I really love is to just tell a story through music and to act and all that jazz, overthinking, overanalyzing. And that was my attempt to control things. Well, lo and behold, Sunset came to me and that's a role that I never ever had in mind to do and wanted to do but but it's it's just great when you I think you just have to work and prepare yourself put yourself in that place and then just the stars will align you have to have the faith and the right thing

if you're working towards it if you're determined you can't just be sitting at home being a little couch potato right you've got to prepare yourself as a weapon and be ready for it when it comes but then the right thing will fall in line for you when it's supposed to at the right time and so we can't be grasping on and trying to be you know trying to control everything and what a perfect place to end on. I feel that the stars have aligned to ensure that you are sitting here opposite me. And I had such a beautiful conversation with you. I cannot thank you enough for your raw vulnerability and your wisdom. And I will see you at Dishoom. I'll be in the queue. You'll be at the table. And at sunset. And I'll see you at sunset. No, I'll grab you out of the queue. Oh,

sunset and I'll see you at sunset no I'll grab you out of the queue oh please thank you no you're you're gorgeous you're brilliant you're beautiful and thank you so much for having me on your show it's a pleasure thank you Nicole Scherzinger thank you I just wanted to remind you that this week I'm flying solo on failing with friends answering your failures and any questions you might have. If you're not yet a subscriber, I'd love for you to join us and click start free at the top of the page to begin your free trial and start listening today. See you there. Remember to press the follow button to get new episodes of How To Fail as soon as they're published on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.