How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Robin Wright on ageing, confidence and the myth of being ‘too late’

Starting point is 00:00:00 I didn't think I had that confidence, so I turned those roles down. What is your worst experience of another director? And you don't have to name names or anything. Boy, have I got stories. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This is the podcast where I ask every guest about three times they failed and what they learned along the way. Okay, a breaking news, because I absolutely have to tell you about my new TV obsession, the Real Housewives of London, streaming from the 18th of August only on Hey You.

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Starting point is 00:03:00 She was the first actress to win a Golden Globe for a streamer-only series and also racked up five consecutive Emmy nominations for outstanding lead actress. She is, of course, Robin Wright. Born in Dallas, Texas, her parents divorced when she was a toddler, and her mother relocated to San Diego, California. Wright herself prioritised family over film roles for many years when she gave birth to her two children, Dylan and Hopper. By her late 40s, Wright was busy staging a comeback, her words,

Starting point is 00:03:35 and her career both in front of and behind the camera, has gone from strength to strength. She now returns to our screens in The Girlfriend, a psychologically gripping TV series for Amazon Prime in which Wright directs, exec producers and stars, as Laura, a billionaire art gallerist who has a suspiciously possessive relationship with her son. By any accounts then, it's a successful life, but the greatest gift is failing, Wright has said in the past. Failing in a scene, in front of the camera, and then

Starting point is 00:04:11 tightening up your bootlaces, putting your head up, and going in and trying again. Robin Wright, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you for having me. You are so welcome here with that kind of attitude to failing. Oh, oh. And that quote was actually, it was an interview that you gave where you were asked about the Princess Bride, which I mentioned in the introduction.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And you were talking about being a young actor surrounded by these legends of screen. And now, if it's not presumptuous of me, I would say you're the legend. How does that feel? How does it feel being the legend and the girlfriend that the other actors probably look up to and have seen so much of your work?

Starting point is 00:04:55 I mean, it's an incredible feeling to be trusted that you have a body of work under you for years and years. And we all learned through that experience of making mistakes, failing, looking bad, and then rectifying it on your own. How do you correct? You learn from your mistakes. And to be instilling that and imbueing that to other young actors, that's what makes me feel great as a director is I am older. I've had more experience.

Starting point is 00:05:33 I was where they were when I was their age. We all were. And I don't feel like it's a legend thing. It's just time under the belt. Yes. It's that famous thing that Malcolm Gladwell talks about, isn't it? The 10,000 hours, that even if you feel nervous still doing what you do, at least you know you've got that experience under your belt.

Starting point is 00:05:55 Oh, yeah. And I feel like if it becomes too comfortable, too lax, you're not really driven by an energy. There's not an impetus in the same way to want to make something very clear, perfect, as you're performing or delivering a speech. Yes, I completely agree. Just be a little bit on edge, a little bit walking up,

Starting point is 00:06:19 because you do want everyone to feel and accept and absorb in the same way. You just want to be able to feel that you're not alone in a rowboat. Yes. And no one's getting what you're saying and you're getting Scooby looks. What? Right. Well, I think you do a terrific job of that in The Girlfriend, which I binged over. the weekend. I'm obsessed with it. And part of the reason it's so good is obviously your skill

Starting point is 00:06:48 as a director and an actor, but also because you have that ability to make something that might on paper seem a bit unbelievable. So this mother, who's very protective of her, now only son, and a girlfriend comes on the scene, and she's rightly suspicious of this girlfriend, played by Olivia Cook. And it's what unravels after that, and it gets very dramatic and very dark. But it is so brilliantly acted that I believed every single second of it. Oh, I love that. Will you be the only reviewer? Yes, I'll absolutely arrange for that to be the case. And that was the intention is to not fall prey to falling into melodrama.

Starting point is 00:07:30 Yes. Because every incident, the drive of Cherry, who's the girlfriend. The will of the mother to not lose the love so it's a tug of war between two women who love the same young man

Starting point is 00:07:46 don't fall into melodrama just make the chaos reality. Yes. Because it does become chaotic in each of these women internally. Yes.

Starting point is 00:07:57 And then they implode. The other thing that struck me about your performance in particular was the physicality of it. You are very in your body And it's very rare that I see dancing seams on TV shows that aren't cringe. And they really weren't.

Starting point is 00:08:14 But how physical do you feel acting is specifically? And then we'll get on to directing a bit later. It's pretty much my foundation. And I think it comes from being a dancer at a very young age. And that to me is what makes me feel. It basically, it invokes something that brings something else to a scene, let's say. So being tactile, if you want to be in a sex scene, but you can't use hands, you can only use eyes of seduction. You know, there's all of those games you can play, but all of that to me is a dance.

Starting point is 00:08:57 Wow. So will you think about how a character moves before you perform them? It's a big question. And it's interesting to work with actors being an actor myself, because I know what they need to get to that emotion, to deliver that beat that the scene needs. And every actor's different. Every actor does a different dance with you. So you're going to have to read the room and go, ah, okay. Some actors go, give me the line reading.

Starting point is 00:09:30 Just do it for me. And I'll mimic it. And others are like, no, I need you to create a story that will help me bring this emotion to the surface and have it feel real to the viewer, authentic. So you're not acting at the audience. You're actually embodying the character and that's what makes the audience members sit on the edge of their seat, cry, laugh, get angry. And we're storytellers. Now, obviously, we've touched on the fact that some of the girlfriend is about motherhood, parenthood. What do you think it taught you or made you think about mothering playing this very specific role?

Starting point is 00:10:14 I mean, I could relate to it. Because of where this ride takes you on this show is, you know, basically it's the love of one man between two women that turns into jealous. And then the jealousy turns into to the death. So I understand that as a mama cub, you take care of your babies. And if something you see is perilous for your offspring, you will lie under an 18-wheel or truck before the baby's going to, you know what I mean? Yes. So I think we as mothers can all relate to that. but this goes a little bit too far

Starting point is 00:11:02 and I remember saying to my son he's like oh I can't wait to see it mom the trailer looks so good but it's a little incestuous and I said do you think and I said just do me a favor when you finally get to binge it will you please let me know

Starting point is 00:11:15 that I am not that overly protective of you so we're going to have to wait and see okay great yes that will be an interesting viewing experience for him in particular The other thing that I thought the girlfriend did very well was it's approach and analysis of class in a very subtle way and I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about class

Starting point is 00:11:37 because I think you have a very interesting perspective raised in America but you have a British stepfather and you spend a lot of time here in the UK and how much did you want to play with how we feel about class it's very delineated here I find Yes. And I've been here pretty much most of three years working in this country. And I've been educated.

Starting point is 00:12:04 And you speak to individuals that are older than me, born and raised here, and they're like, oh, no, it's a thing in England. It makes a huge difference. What university did you go to? Now, you could say the same about America. If you go to an Ivy League school, you're suddenly. elevated because you went to Princeton versus, you know, SoCal college. But here, I feel like it's part of the national fabric, the class system compartmentalization. And you better know the classes and what that requires, how you have to be, behave if you're not part of that class. And that's

Starting point is 00:12:48 what Cherry's doing is she's trying to fit in, but she's basically saying this isn't who I am. I love you, Daniel, and I'll never be this. I never came from money. But when you're trying to fit into a class system that you will never be accepted into, really, that's a difficult relationship to have with a mother-in-law. Yes. With a mother-in-law. But your first failure is the fear of failing itself. So the fact that, as you put it to me, you didn't take chances in your earlier career? Which chances didn't you take? Turning down certain roles that I was offered in my 20s, let's say, because I just didn't think I was qualified to play that character fully, immerse myself, fail in front of the camera, do another take. I didn't think I had

Starting point is 00:13:47 that confidence. So I turned those roles down. And the ladies that did those roles were amazing. I wasn't ready. And so I feel that it just takes time, experience, so that now that's history. I learned from that by finally failing, having the confidence to fail. Yes. I'm so interested by this lack of confidence at that stage because you cut your teeth on Santa Barbara, R-I-P, I used to watch it.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Oh my goodness. It was a really fantastic, long-running soap opera. And you have to learn so many lines and be so quick that what do you think soap opera acting taught you about acting? You have to become stealth in the technicalities because you've got three cameras going at the same time. So you have to feel out of your periphery, the red light. lights come on, so that camera, and then your head turns this way to get the actor to move over here. So I was trained at a very young age of how to multitask while in a scene. And it was a great schooling, I have to say. But you still didn't feel confident enough,

Starting point is 00:15:10 even with that on your CV to take some of these roles. Why do you think that was? Because I hadn't done enough. You know, when you're young, you're basically playing yourself. You're speaking as yourself. You're moving as you would move through the world. You're given lines, but you don't own those lines as a grown woman or a grown man, right? Yet. And I think that's just life.

Starting point is 00:15:46 We were babies when we started. We didn't know who we were. We didn't know how to do the in-depth homework one has to do to immerse themselves into a completely different character that's nothing like you. If you're playing a murderer, a sociopath, right? Yeah. When people ask, you know, which parts of you are like so-and-so that you played? And you're like, nothing really. Yes.

Starting point is 00:16:13 And that takes time and experience and doing your homework and getting jobs that allow you to. to play and explore and discover. Yes. That's how I get there. It's experience. What is the most difficult emotion to convey on screen? Oh my God, that's a tough one. I don't really know anymore, Elizabeth,

Starting point is 00:16:38 because I feel like I've kind of, I've tapped them all, you know, I've clicked all the boxes. It's almost like a light switch now. truthfully and it wasn't before I couldn't get to an emotion without putting my iPod and playing

Starting point is 00:16:57 melancholic music by London grammar to get the tears going but I do have to say what is still really difficult to do is to go from being like this and then somebody walks in the door

Starting point is 00:17:17 cameras rolling and they're like your husband just died and to be able to go from us laughing about failure and then having to go to that with tears

Starting point is 00:17:29 and shock and dismay in a second and in life we do that naturally when something traumatic happens that's still tough to do because you have to map it out as an actor

Starting point is 00:17:41 ahead of time okay when Elizabeth is saying that line I know it's going to be in two seconds, I'm going to have to start sobbing, crying, or screaming at the top of my lungs. Like, so while you're still speaking, I'm allowing that London grammar music to reach my heart. And you hold it.

Starting point is 00:18:07 And you're like, yeah. You're doing it now. And then you go, what? You know, it's that flip of a switch that's so quick, but you have to give the preamble a little bit. a time to rise. But that's my personal experience. I don't know how others work. That was phenomenal.

Starting point is 00:18:24 That was utterly amazing, witnessing that. And again, we go back to the physicality. Yeah. The feeling in your body first, that being where it springs from. Yeah. So in this context, I wonder what it was like for you. So Forrest Gump, allow me to be the first person to say. It's one of my favorite movies all time.

Starting point is 00:18:42 I remember going to see it in the cinema, and I remember asking my parents to buy me the soundtrack for Christmas. That's how much I loved it. It's the first ever movie soundtrack. Such a good soundtrack. The best. And you reunited with Tom and Hanks and Bob Smekis for here. And of course, in the interim, there's been decades of your experience as an actor.

Starting point is 00:19:04 What was it like for you as a sort of sign maybe of how far you've come or how much your confidence has grown? What was that reunion like? A, it was like no time had passed for the three of us, four of us, Eric Roth, who wrote Forrest Gump, adapted Forrest Gump, also wrote here with Bob Zemeckis. So we were a band getting back together. And it was literally like no time had passed, love each other just same. It was just as easy as if we had had dinner every Sunday night for 10 straight years, you know.

Starting point is 00:19:39 We just had a respect for one another going, right? I learned that too. When did you learn that when you were 40, 45? It was great. It was a good therapy session. for us. Yeah. Is Tom Hanks really as nice as he seems?

Starting point is 00:19:52 Yes. Okay, just checking. Thank goodness. The sweetest, the greatest, the funniest. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Squarespace is here to support entrepreneurship and help turn your passion into a business.

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Starting point is 00:22:21 raising children and you made that decision and you made the decision not to take on as many roles. But was that the case or was it more this that you were fearful of taking on the roles? No, it was that I wanted to be a mom. And I found that as the kids were getting past the toddler years and starting to really, make, you know, solid relationships, friends, best friends when they're six, seven, eight, nine. Taking them away from their routine and their community was really traumatic. And what a nightmare. You got to come to another city and sit in a trailer and wait for mom to have a 30-minute lunch

Starting point is 00:23:05 where all she wants to do is take a nap because she's so tired. And then I see them for dinner and then give them a bath and put them to bed. Then I'm exhausted because I've worked a 15 hours. day. So it's kind of pointless, but the flip side of that of being a mom was, or do I leave and leave them with a nanny and their dad? Which one's worse? They both have their benefits and hindrances, you know? So I just decided, take a cameo. If you can get a cameo during the school year and you're only gone for five days to Toronto, no problem. But going away and doing a movie for three months in Istanbul, and FaceTime wasn't available yet, I didn't think that was

Starting point is 00:23:50 fair to them, to not be there to raise it. So I just worked in the summers when they were off school, and they'd come for a little bit, and then they'd go to camp, and they wouldn't even miss me. So it was great. Times have changed a little since that period or describing, but I wonder if you feel things have got any easier for working parents, particularly. in your industry? I think so. I've heard from a few people in the last, you know, 10 years, new mothers, let's say. And it's amazing the convenience they're given, the accommodation, the support, you know, the, we're going to call you in later.

Starting point is 00:24:33 Because you're breastfeeding, you're six-week-old. We're going to let you come in later to hair and makeup, things like that. And that's working with the talent. And it's a talent to be a mom. It's, you know, it's a skill. Yeah. So to have that kind of support is amazing. Are you angry in any way that times weren't like that then?

Starting point is 00:24:58 They were like that then. So much that way, you know, 20 years before I got into this industry. But I was very much taken care of. Would they, you know, pay for them? the nanny in it, no. So you could take your child, but it was kind of, it was on you. And you could always bring your kid to set, trailer, have a break, go back, feed the baby. I've had it pretty great, I have to say. Going back to this idea that there was a fear of failure for a period of time, where do you think that stemmed from originally? Can you remember experiencing that

Starting point is 00:25:42 fear as a child before you started acting. Oh, God, yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time. School. And it started with academia because I just struggled with English and math. And that feeling of just sweating and you could feel it brewing going, oh, my God, I'm going to fail. I'm not going to be able to write this essay.

Starting point is 00:26:10 I don't know how to do it properly. And that's when you start looking over the shoulder of your colleague in the class, right? You're like, can I see how you did the thing and the thing and the conclusion? And then I would start asking questions to my friends who were smarter than me, who were natural writers, graded arithmetic. And I would say, can you teach me how your methodology works for you? And you start doing that throughout your life. as an actor observing directors, what not to do, what you could think, okay, I know I'll never do that because that doesn't work for an actor.

Starting point is 00:26:52 And I think you could generalize certain things in that context, right? And then what you do is you just stockpile all this education that you acquire over the years, whether it's in the workplace, relationships, family, being a mother to your kids as they grow up, up and start talking back, and you start seeing these human beings that are their own people, and you're like, where did you come from? Then you have to navigate through different waters. And I love having that big old bag, because then it's almost like the bag turned into a givanchi sack. Yes. Of just good quality, wisdom. Let's call them clickbates. Let's call them cliches, whatever, it worked. Gaining them and using them to your advantage. And I think what strikes me about that is that you asked the questions. You were curious rather

Starting point is 00:27:55 than what so many people experience, which is this kind of defensive, judgmental fear that they're not enough, so they don't want to reveal that they're not enough by asking the question. They don't want to reveal that they don't know. And I just think that's such an important. thing to remember that actually it's often more powerful to say, I don't know, and ask the question. You couldn't have said it better. That is the power. And once you own the freedom and the want to say, I don't know what that means. Tell me what that means. Will you write that down? I want to study it. Tell me where I can get online and read more about that. what a liberating thing yes because it's truth yes the other things a lie yes when you're holding it in or being like oh yeah yeah yeah i know that yeah it's a lie yeah and i just think truth is you know you can

Starting point is 00:28:59 love everyone i was listening to you know ramdas yes he has this piece on this beautiful piece of music that I was listening to. And he's telling a story about when he first met Maharaji. And Maharaji says, just love everyone, Ram Dass. And he says, I can't. He said, why? He said, because I have too much judgment in me for other people. It's impossible. And he said, yes, you can. Love everyone and tell the truth. And it changed. his life. And then he became a guru for other people. And those two things are genius. They're so simple. You can love, they might get angry when you tell the truth, but you're still loving them. I couldn't agree more. And sometimes the hardest person to love is yourself. And so sometimes

Starting point is 00:29:55 you're being judgmental. I'm talking about myself here, actually. But we all do that, right? Yes. Sometimes you're being most judgmental of you. And that's why you're projecting judgment of other people. and that's where it's like living in the question living in the love that's and I think that's the biggest poison that we do to ourselves we get stuck when we're self-loathing I don't want to be a cod psychologist about this at all but I do speak to a lot of people who were raised with divorced parents

Starting point is 00:30:25 and they felt that they had to be perfect in order to be lovable to sort of fix a problem that wasn't theirs they're making do you relate to that in any way. Absolutely. And I became, you know, the caretaker from a very young age. I was the person in the room where I wanted to keep everything calm, didn't like confrontation, hated confrontation, hated people that blew up. And I remember thinking, I really need to get into a therapy to release myself from this conduit that's holding me into, The panic that I feel when somebody snaps loses it because you get crew members, directors, actors that you've experienced over the years that just lose it on set at a crew member.

Starting point is 00:31:14 And it just horrifies me. And I don't mind that because I think we can all be kind and stern. But it really used to rock my world. Yes. And at a certain point, I just decided to go with diplomacy. And calm in those instances, because then it brings everybody off that ledge. And people go, well, then you're all chaotic inside because you're suppressing it. I said, no, what I'm doing is I'm helping with a tactic.

Starting point is 00:31:50 It's almost like a fun game we're going to play. Let's see if my energy, which is quantum physics, right? If you put that energy out in the room, people are going to get off the race, horse. So I like spreading that energy, which is easy for me to do. I'm not a good confrontation person where I'm going to be like, no, you listen, you sit down, you can't talk to people. I've never been that way. So did you learn to do that through experience? Probably experience through, you know, yeah, child of divorce. And I mean, what's the percentage of children of divorce? It's a lot.

Starting point is 00:32:36 So I think we've all been, most of us have been through that. And as a child, you do just fall into, it almost feels like an obligation. Like you were saying, it's like you have to be perfect and make sure everything in the room is perfect

Starting point is 00:32:56 and everyone's happy. Make sure everyone's happy. And that's my responsibility because if things start to blow, it's my responsibility because I didn't keep it calm. I totally relate. And you want to free kids up from saying,

Starting point is 00:33:16 it's not your responsibility. And if that freaks you out, understandably so, if somebody's yelling in a room and it makes you really uncomfortable, leave the room. Walk away from the drama. Don't engage and take it on. right? So that's through life experience too. And also romantic relationships. You have to be

Starting point is 00:33:37 careful not to take that into romantic relationships. She said. I know. Yeah. And that's a learning process. It is. And you know, that's cognitive therapy, which you learn later in life after you do other therapies. And we do this. And there's two rules that I think are really important in a relationship that come from that style of therapy, which is you're not allowed to use the words never or always. And always come from a place of I. I felt this when you said that. Not you said, you did it in this.

Starting point is 00:34:19 And it really does work. Yes. And trying to teach your children to operate that way, you hope that they just take that baton and run with it and they'll have a healthy relationship. My final question on this particular failure is, As someone who was historically the peacekeeper, conflict avoidant, disliked confrontation, was it then extremely liberating playing Claire Underwood?

Starting point is 00:34:44 Yeah, in a sense. It allowed me to feel what it would be like to have that kind of strength and power, where you're not concerned with what anybody else thinks. because that's your truth and that's a funny character to compare it to but when playing a part you need to invest in being that person otherwise it won't be felt

Starting point is 00:35:16 by the audience you have to like that character as venal as they are you got to love that character you're playing otherwise it doesn't really translate and that's so interesting because then you realize that you have the capacity within you when you're embodying it so it's like actually i can't tap into that in my real life i choose not to yes your second failure is your fear of not being good as a director

Starting point is 00:35:46 good enough good enough okay you started on house of cards but it was someone else who suggested it wasn't it yes it was the camera operator who had been with us for the the three seasons. And he was very experienced. Like he'd shot Michael Mann, Oliver Stone movie. You know, he'd been around the block. And he was getting older. And he said he's from Texas.

Starting point is 00:36:11 He was like, Rob, I just want to be inside. I don't want to be out in the elements in the winter. I'm 74. Like, I just want to, I want a 9 to 5 job. Because we shot everything of House of Cards in a hangar. They built all the stages. to replicate the White House. And so I was by his side every day, asking him questions.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Why did you move the camera there? Why did you start moving the lens this way when the line was delivered? What lens are you using? Why? Finally, he said to me, season three, he said, why don't you get out there and do it? And I've got your back. And you've got our whole team of guys here that you've worked with for three years,

Starting point is 00:36:55 and you've been asking them questions like an irritate. dating kid, do it while you do it. Learn while you do it. So he kind of inspired me to ask Netflix if they would let me direct one. And I did and I loved it. And I learned so much from the guys. So I owe it to them. I mean, they really gave me cinema school.

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Starting point is 00:38:23 Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision, they slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at slur.com and ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. And with the girlfriend where you directed three episodes, I just want to know as someone who is a complete ignoramus, how does it practically work. When you're directing, you're self-starring. How do you do it? It's literally like turning on a light switch. Because it's so second nature at this point.

Starting point is 00:39:09 I've been doing it 40 years, you know? And, but mind you, I'm still directing when I'm acting in the scene and it's a two shot. I'm still looking at you going, I'm doing my lines and I'm being Laura, but I'm watching seeing if I got what I wanted. And then I'll call cut, and then I'll say, can we just do it again and can you do this this way? Yes. Given what we were talking about in the previous failure, you becoming the diplomat, you listening, observing, seeing the things that weren't said that needed to be said or needed not to be said, and sort of ushering people to their own conclusions about what would be the most peaceful way forward. That plus the Santa Barbara experience where you're constantly aware, even though you're not looking at the camera, the red light. All of these things have come into play.

Starting point is 00:39:59 Yes. To make you the director that you are. I think so. But you're fearful of not being good enough. Of course, because I haven't done it enough. And I hope to do more of it, to learn more and become better. And this is not about comparing yourselves, you know, whether it's me and six other kind of inexperienced directors, comparing yourself to the Uber experience

Starting point is 00:40:29 or just naturally talented directors that just have it like a David Fincher or an Edward Berger who I met in the post-production process of the girlfriend and I love his movies because they're all different and I'm like I want to do that

Starting point is 00:40:48 and that takes a particular skill that I'm still learning and what do you think the Robin Wright directorial style is or are you still

Starting point is 00:40:58 shaping it definitely still shaping it without question but I think the essence

Starting point is 00:41:09 of where I come from is I have to believe it I haven't done enough and this

Starting point is 00:41:20 was the first opportunity I had you know at late 50s just started directing in my mid-40 you know like this is late start and I'm so thrilled to have had this opportunity to build something from the ground up

Starting point is 00:41:40 where I could bring my vision from the inception and bring the others in going you get me, you follow me, are we on the same page? Great. And I love how you've expressed that about starting quote unquote later. I mean, starting in your prime, let's be honest. But because I think particularly as women,

Starting point is 00:42:02 we are so often sold the myth, that age diminishes and withers us, that no one will have any need. I can't even imagine what it's like as a female actor. But if there is anyone listening to this podcast right now who feels that they've missed their chance and that they're getting too old, what would you say to them?

Starting point is 00:42:23 Too old to do what? Yes. I'm sorry. But, you know, do you have the stamina, the energy? I don't know what field we're talking about, but if we're just talking about moving into directing or, you know, acting and later in your life. It's do you have the desire? Is it strong enough, the want?

Starting point is 00:42:52 Do you have the energy? to put new work and you've got to open your mind to things that maybe you thought you knew and you didn't know. How are you feeling about turning 60? I imagine pretty great. It's a number. Yes.

Starting point is 00:43:08 I have more wrinkles. That happens. You know? I don't know. I don't feel... I still feel like I'm in my, you know, early 30s, mid-30s. And I feel like I'm in a... a new chapter and not my last chapter. I'm in a new one. And I'm going to learn so much and I

Starting point is 00:43:30 can't wait either. I think everyone has a psychic age other than their actual age and mine has always been 32. Whatever age I have been or am, I still feel 32. Good. Gets two good numbers. Yes. Right. Exactly. My last question on this failure, there are far fewer female directors because of social inequalities, systemic sexism, decades of it. Is part of your fear around being good enough or worry about failing in some way? Is it to do with that also that you want to not let down the sisterhood? I don't want to feel that I'm in a position where I'm competing with male directors who I feel are better

Starting point is 00:44:26 and everybody else that knows that they're better than I just don't want to feel that pressure and I think that's just in the atmosphere and it's been in the atmosphere and it's been going on for years it's men have always been the elevated gender. They just have and it's been accepted in society

Starting point is 00:44:44 and we've grown up that way so this is nothing new but I just don't want to feel that inequality because of pressure like you'll never be as good as these guys because I mean you look at incredible female Jane Campy is incredible female dirt

Starting point is 00:45:02 you know yeah but why do we have to compete and say well is she better than I don't believe in that I just want it to become an ebb and flow let me grow what is your worst experience of another director

Starting point is 00:45:18 and you don't have to name names or anything but something because you said earlier that you learn what not to do as well as what to do from your experience as an actor boy have I got stories also feel free to name names if you'd like to who am I kind of do I'm going to preface it with a man who really doesn't like women

Starting point is 00:45:45 very successful director in his day and I was very young and shy and I was traveling in a helicopter with this director out to the middle of a desert in California and I mean in the middle of the desert

Starting point is 00:46:07 like nothing around where the set was to meet a very, very famous actor or two that he was directing in this movie and I was ushered in to the trailer to meet this very successful, famous actor. And I was nervous as hell, you know. My heart's palpitating and I'm just like sweating. I didn't know what to say.

Starting point is 00:46:33 And I thought protocol would be what I was accustomed to, which is when you're invited in, you are introduced to this new person. They set up the meeting. Like you're here for this and we're going to talk. about the characters and the story and blah, blah, blah. No intro, nothing, dead silence. And I started to feel like it was my responsibility to start the meeting.

Starting point is 00:47:03 I was a baby. And he yelled at me and said, speak. And I got up out of the trailer and I ran out into the desert, started crying, found some shade and I was like how am I going to get out of here I'm in the middle of the desert and I just wanted to get away

Starting point is 00:47:23 so those kinds of I'm just like I would never and that's why it's so cool to to be older and you feel for the youngens because you're like

Starting point is 00:47:39 I know exactly you're torturing yourself because you're not getting that beat in the scene and you torture yourself but you can help them a little bit by just going, you know what, we were all in that boat. Thank you for sharing that, and I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Starting point is 00:47:56 Did you get out of the desert? How did you get out? Did you get the helicopter back? The other very established older actor who just was incredibly kind and he came out and saw me squatting in what little shade I got from one side of the car and I was squatted down and I was crying and he was like you're going to get heat stroke it was 116 degrees Fahrenheit

Starting point is 00:48:20 it was crazy and he walked me into the production trailer that was air condition and I said can somebody just get me a driver to the airport

Starting point is 00:48:29 and I got out of there but you know it doesn't sound very bad but it really the power of it was intense and what that

Starting point is 00:48:43 does when you're young and you're very impressionable is it makes you trigger shy you know and those are the things that you end up spending tens of thousands of dollars with it. Yes. But they end up making you a brilliant director. So your final failure and I'm actually going to let you say it in your words but it's about the youth of today and what you wish for them. I feel I would be a failure if when I die, before I die, if I don't have some kind of influence, advice, guidance that I can give to the youth of today of how to grow up in this very destructive state of the world that we're living in, the corruption, the deception, the lies, what media has done. You can't trust any of it, you know? Social media has taken over the you. There's so much digital influence that is designed by whomever wants to design it. And they'll feed you whatever cookie they want to give you. And I just would love to help in

Starting point is 00:50:16 some way, in whatever way I can, to help the youth say, I call bullshit on that. Yes. And I'm going to stand up. You're not going to control my life in that way. Because they're moving into a world that seems to be getting worse. Is that, you've always been, you've always been an activist from my understanding of you and you've done a lot for the Congo and you've been very kind of engaged with the world. In the industry in which you operate, is it difficult to speak out? Maybe my representative would say, maybe don't go there. I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, I'm not yelling and screaming. At anyone, I'm just saying let's talk the truth because that feels like we started this

Starting point is 00:51:15 conversation. That feels realistic and authentic. And that is loving. Like, let's talk the truth. Let's get through and around this in some way if we can. And, you know, that's the perfect world. We wouldn't have war if we could do that. You're leaving us with something to aspire to.

Starting point is 00:51:35 And you are a truth teller. storyteller. And I'm so grateful to you for your work, but also for coming on How to Fail. It's been a really wonderful conversation. Thank you. I've loved it. Thank you, Elizabeth. It's great talking to you. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. We have a whole other thing to talk about. We do. I know. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Robin Wright on ageing, confidence and the myth of being ‘too late’

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