How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - S14, MID-SEASON BONUS! How To Fail: Caroline Stanbury

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

Look, anyone who knows me knows of my love for reality TV. And anyone who knows anything about reality TV realises that when you get the chance to interview a bona fide Real Housewife, you jump at it. Which is why today's special bonus episode is with Caroline Stanbury.Now, if you're not versed in your Bravo TV herstory or your pre-Selling Sunset heritage, you might not have heard of Caroline. She first appeared on our screens in 2014 as one of the cast members of the (sadly) short-lived Ladies of London. Viewers were either riveted by her ice-maiden ways or really quite scared. I was one of the latter, but I couldn't stop watching.This is a woman born into privilege and old English money who went on to make her name in a completely different - and some might say, antithetical - world. Now she's back on our screens as part of The Real Housewives of Dubai.I've never interviewed anyone quite like Caroline. She is impressive almost *because of* her lack of self-reflection: she just dusts herself down and gets on with it. Which is kind of hilarious when your podcast is all about failure. But it also caused me to reflect on how rare it is to see a woman inhabit this emotional space. And I came away thinking I had things to learn from her about inner strength. This is a long way of saying: it's not a typical HTF episode. But it is a wildly entertaining one as we talk about everything from surviving divorce (and then getting married to a much younger man), failing to go to university, the loss of her first business, IVF, boarding school, the power of manifestation and yes, of COURSE, the highs and lows of reality television.Thank you Caroline - you're one in a billion.--Caroline's podcast Divorced Not Dead is available to listen to here: https://dearmedia.com/shows/divorced-not-dead/--How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted by Elizabeth Day, produced by Naomi Mantin and Chris Sharp. To contact us, email [e-mail]--Social Media:Elizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpod Caroline Stanbury @carolinestanbury Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, the podcast that celebrates the things that haven't gone right. This is a podcast about learning from our mistakes and understanding that why we fail ultimately makes us stronger. Because learning how to fail in life actually means learning how to succeed better. I'm your host, author and journalist Elizabeth Day, and every week I'll be asking a new interviewee what they've learned

from failure. During lockdown, there were certain things that helped my mental health. Regular exercise was one of them. Margarita-fueled Zoom calls with my best friend was another. But arguably, one of the most important actions I took to preserve my sanity was to re-watch the entirety of Ladies of London, an American reality TV show that originally aired in 2014. It chronicled the lives of six women living in London as they balanced their social lives, businesses, and families. living in London as they balance their social lives, businesses and families. And by far and away the breakout star of that brilliant series was my guest today, Caroline Stanbury. Caroline was beloved by viewers for her ice-cold sarcasm and witty barbs, which actually masked a huge heart

and an almost obsessive need to tell the truth. When it was announced she was returning as one of the cast members of the hotly anticipated Real Housewives of Dubai, a generation of Bravo reality TV fans cheered. Sambri grew up in Dorset, the daughter of a venture capitalist and a fashion designer. It was a wealthy upbringing involving the usual English servings of boarding school and emotional repression. She went on to work as a personal stylist and set up her own business, GIF Library, before experiencing TV fame. Stanbury is also an entrepreneur, philanthropist,

and the host of the Divorced Not Dead podcast. As a fellow divorcee myself, I love that title. I cannot believe I get to say this, but Caroline Stanbury, welcome to How to Fail. Hi. God, what a lead-in. I don't even know what to do. I wanted to say so much all the way through. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. The pleasure is entirely mine. And I genuinely mean that about Ladies of London. I loved it when it first aired, but then during the first lockdown, it honestly got me through some really dark days. And one of the things that really interested me re-watching it is that my opinions and feelings about almost all of the characters had changed the older I'd got. So the first time I watched it, I loved you, Caroline, but I was deeply intimidated by

you. I found you scary. The second time I watched it as a 40 something woman, I was like, she is amazing and badass. And she just knows who she is. And it was so interesting that I had like matured into even more respect for you. How do you feel looking back at Ladies of London? Well, funny you say that because first of all, I haven't rewatched it, and I probably should, because I think, I wonder if I even recognize that woman now. It seems so long ago, and my life's changed so much. But I always used to get that you're so intimidating, you're scary, you're this. I'm not scary or intimidating. The problem is, I just have a lack of time, and I don't have time to sort of sugarcoat

and sit down with people for ages. So I tend to just sort of blurt everything out very quickly. And I think it just shocks people more than anything. But I don't mean to go around like hurting people. I just literally say it as it is. If you saw my, just my ever going schedule, I mean, anyone that watches me, I'm like, I don't know whether I'm coming or going.

So I just think I'm just very abrupt. And people take that for rudeness. But once you get to know me, I'm not rude. And I love my friends to a fault. I did read an interview with you from over a decade ago. And you were asked what your greatest shortcoming was. And you said, impatience. I expect everything to be done

yesterday and get angry quickly. Is that still the case? Yes. I still have this terrible, and all the girls that work for me will tell you. They're all still here, mind you. But I have this terrible, I see red very quickly. And it is quickly. They all sort of duck and run, but they all know that I get over it. It's more of a situation than a person. I think I get very, very overwhelmed very quickly because the trouble with what I do is I don't do one thing. Anyone that knows if you're a CEO of a company, you know, when you start out, say you're a stylist, well, you just style people, you get used to doing, you know, you're going to do that. That's your thing. Whereas when you own a company, you end up doing accounts, you end up doing advertising,

you end up doing HR, you end up doing bloody everything for everyone. You wear so many hats, then you're a mother, then you're a wife. It's insane. So you don't get to sort of just get to be the best at your job because you have to be the best at bloody every job. And that's where I think my head, I always say is like a Rubik's cube. I'm doing so many things in a day. I don't know, you know, like today I'm doing a podcast and I've got the premiere of my show. Then I'm doing, you know, all my press. Then I go into a photo shoot. Then you go into sort of packing for, I'm going away for two months. Then my kids are going to look around different schools. So you're wearing so many hats in a day, you can't really relax into one scenario, can you? And then you're firefighting all the time

too. So I don't know, I just think that makes you scarier because I'm just a problem solver all the time. Yes. And you have to say yes or no really quickly with no flim flam, because as you started out by saying, you just don't have the time. And something that I hadn't realized until I listened to a podcast interview with you talking about the real house sizes you buy, which I'm basically dissolving in anticipation because it does premiere tonight. We're recording this on the 1st of June, but I hadn't quite appreciated the reality TV is a whole other job because you have the cameras around all of the time. So you need to structure your day to accommodate shooting schedules and retaking scenes and things like

that. Can you tell us a bit about how it works on a practical level? You don't get a reshoot, but it's a whole other job, let me tell you. So you need to have a team just to manage that schedule. So what happens is they come in, they want to know as filming starts for three months, they need your schedule. They need to know what is going to happen, right? So it's not like reality TV doesn't just happen that they say, oh, they wake up at 9 AM. Where are you going to the spa today, Caroline? Quick, we'll run around there. That can't happen, doesn't happen because my crew, each girl's crew is about 15 people. Now every single day, that's how many people follow us it's not a joke it's not one man with a camera so 15 people have to be moved with trucks with

permits with everything on every movement I make so what happens is my poor PA who already thinks she has the world's worst job has to come up with a schedule for them for three months I mean it does move, but basic, you know, they'll see where I am, what I'm doing, what big events are happening in my life that will not be moved. Like this time was my wedding. You know what I mean? Things like this, that they can sort of anchor the show around. Then we can slip in the bits that I need to do. And you know, on top of my normal job, you're absolutely right. It's another full-time job on top of your other jobs. It is not that they just fit in with you. So there are people who listen to this podcast

who absolutely love and are well-versed in the vocabulary of reality TV. I'm one of them, but there are also people who don't get it. And one of the things that I'm sort of advocating for is not only to enjoy reality TV, but to understand that it shapes and reflects the world that we live in. And I think part of the reason I find it so interesting is because all of human behavior is there. It's fascinating to see people interact. And I also have a theory that it makes cast members more emotionally literate because you have to explain how you're feeling about any given situation, either to the person that you're feeling about or in a confessional to camera. Do you think in a way it's a bit like therapy? Well, I haven't done a lot of therapy in my life, but probably. I mean, the great thing is,

I mean, there you go with the brutal honesty. Because in the show, you're absolutely forced to tell the person how you feel. I don't have a problem with telling anyone how I feel. If someone pisses me off, they'll certainly know about it. I don't go away and talk to everybody else. I have no problem going directly to the source, which most people in life just avoid doing. So I guess it's taught me that. Is it like therapy? I mean, I, you know, I'm not going into past lives or into my marriage. I

didn't do things like that. So I think I made me aware of things in the moment, more aware, I can helicopter my own behavior and say, okay, look, if I take my personal self out of this situation, can I see how that person feels? And I can do that. And I do do that. I'm quite a rational person, believe it or not. Do you think reality TV has made you into a better friend? I don't know. Yes and no, because I have less time. So, you know, it makes it when I'm filming, my friends actually get quite upset because they think I've gone bigger, better deal, because I don't call them as much, but I simply don't have any time and you're not allowed to use your phone when you're filming. So in that respect, probably not. But in other respects, you know, maybe I appreciate them more and they appreciate me more when they see me. Right.

I mentioned in the introduction your upbringing. It was a wealthy background and we saw a glimpse of your family on Ladies of London. wealthy background and we saw a glimpse of your family on Ladies of London. What do they think of the success that you've become and the fame that you're now experiencing? I mean, you've got to remember they live in the countryside. They don't really look at Instagram. They certainly don't follow everything I do. So I don't think the fame of what this show is about to do has hit them. No. I just think they roll their eyes and nothing surprises them anymore. I mean, for God's sake, I've married a 27 year old now. I think at this point they've given up, don't you? So yes, you have married a 27 year old. He's the former Real Madrid player, Sergio Corralo. And you are a 40 something woman, even though I know you've said in the past

you're aging backwards and you certainly look like you do I am obsessed with you oh you're 46 did you say yes okay so as a 43 year old and I'm divorced as well I've remarried I also had an age gap relationship before I got remarried how do you cope with being married to someone so much younger who's going to have an entirely different set of cultural references? So if you mention 40 Towers or All Saints. I'm not mentioning 40 Towers anytime soon. He's an old soul in a young body, thank God. He loves my music. He loves all that. He's actually much more stable probably than I am and the references don't bother me as much as oh my god I have to do everything again do everything again what you mean well you know he'll be like oh there's a mountain and wherever let's go climb it or oh I see we're

going to Bali for a month and if he sends me one more rose petal bath I'm going to die I've done these babe I've had more rose petal baths than I have had hot meals yes he's like we're gonna do this I'm like okay anyway it is I mean it's cute too because a lot has changed for you since Ladies of London and one of them is the fact that you got divorced from Jem who we met on the show and you launched your podcast which is now called Divorced Not Dead why did you add not dead into the title because I got so sick of people going you know that pity party that everyone throws for you first of all the natural reaction as soon as you announce it is you get a million and one fucking phone calls going oh I'm so sorry for you. First of all, the natural reaction as soon as you announce it is you get a million and one fucking phone calls going, oh, I'm so sorry for you. What happened? Are you okay? Yeah,

I'm bloody fine. I'm actually better than fine. I'm good. I think that was just it. Just to say, not all women are curled into a ball shaking at the end of a divorce. You know, it's a horrible time, but by the time you get there, most women, or if you've decided to take that path you're normally ready yeah and I'm a big believer in the fact that a relationship isn't a failure just because it ends do you agree with that I'm a massive believer in that you know I actually really don't believe it's possible to get from 25 to 100 I just don't you know unless you have some sort of communication deal in between that you have some sort of, I don't know, open relationships or you have bits and bobs that you change in the

middle. I just can't see how you can possibly do it with one person because you change 57 times. I think it's just normal to have chapters. And you still are in touch with Gemma, aren't you? And do you have a very kind of healthy blended family? I hate that phrase, but is that how it feels? I mean, it's taken me a while to get here. We're three years in and I'm married now, but yes, we do. So he lives down the road. My kids do one week, one week. We go for dinners, all of us together with him, with my new husband. We do all the kids' parties, Christmas together with all our families. Are we holidaying together in the summer yet? No, but I would like to get there. I'm hoping we will get there. And we talk every single day because obviously kids, logistics, money, all of these things have to be dealt with. Sometimes we have

great days, sometimes not so great days, depends which side of the bed either of us have woken up on. Now, Real Housewives of Dubai is premiering tonight. By the time this episode has gone out, there'll have been two episodes of this franchise. How are you feeling about it? I'm really ready. It's come around so fast, got to be honest. And we're in Dubai, and obviously this is very new. This is the first reality show out of the Middle East. So we are on red alert. Everybody is talking about us. So I'm ready for actually people to see it's not what they think. You've got to understand here, they think we're trying to do a docu-series on Emirati housewives, which we are not. So I'm

actually really ready for everyone to see it because I'm sick of everyone talking about it without seeing it. Yeah. What was the hardest thing about filming it? Well, I got married, moved, did IVF all in one show and put that in there. Plus, you know, getting to know some of the newer women in my life, because even though you knew each other, suddenly you're together all the time. That was quite difficult. So it was such a juggle of being like with Sergio, with my family, with my wedding, and then the show really. Thank you so much for talking openly about IVF and also showing on the show, because I've been on a whole long fertility journey myself, including IVF, I'm still on it. And genuinely,

one of the first places I saw the reality of what that involved on screen was The Real Housewives. It was The Real Housewives of OC with Meghan King-Edmonds filming herself, injecting herself. And this is one of the reasons that I say I owe a lot to The Real Housewives. And it's sort of, in many respects, is way beyond scripted drama in terms of where it's at. Why did you make a choice to share that with the viewers? Well, first of all, it's in my life. I mean, how on earth am I going to not do it? The cameras are there every day. And the moment you say you don't want it on TV, they zoom in anyway. Second of all, I was doing IVF. I talked about it a lot on Ladies in London, but I don't think

I did it on screen because it depends on the timing of the show, obviously. This time I did it on screen again because I'm 46. I've got a 27-year-old husband and he wants a baby, obviously, which will be a medical miracle at my age. So we are doing that at the moment. I think it will be really endearing because there are a lot of age gap relationships now. It is becoming more normal. And it is funny to watch a guy sort of go through it with me, who has absolutely no bloody clue what it was, right? He just thought, you know, he wasn't expecting to do all this. And bless him, he did everything. And he's been up with my moods, done all the injections with me, had to go and leave his specimen. I mean, all of these things that a young viral guy doesn't ever think about ever having to do, obviously. It was a lot and he did it all.

And the producer said to me, he'd done three or four IVFs before on camera. And he said, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. You too. Cause I fell about laughing because he had no clue what anything was. He picked up a statue of a uterus from the doctor's desk and shoved it in his ear he thought it was the ear canal and it was so funny to watch this on screen that you know my cameraman almost dropped the camera when that happened I was like are you kidding me because I don't know I just thought we'd have to have sex and do this I had never thought about IVF and then I'm like oh my god of course it's not like they teach it in school. No, but they should, shouldn't they? Well, they really should. And I'm thinking about it, but you know, he's so young at 27,

why would he ever have thought about that? Never. Or been told about it. I do love hearing you talk about anything actually, because I think that you have such a positive, straightforward, get on with it attitude to life. But IVF was really, really tough. And I talk from a personal experience there. And my personal experience doing it in the UK was that a lot of the language around fertility medicine was the language of failure, that as a woman going through it, you are constantly told you're failing to respond to the drugs, or I just felt like I was the issue. How do you cope with that? Like, how do you get to your mindset? Well, I got taken in with my 27 year old boyfriend who has 86 million sperm per whatever it was called, and then told that mine would be a geriatric pregnancy in front of him.

So yeah, exactly. Which already I'm like, okay, thanks a lot. And he almost fell off his chair. But I'll tell you what, we've done two rounds now. We're going to do another one when we get back. He's as straightforward as I am. I just say, deliver the medicines. I don't ask anything.

I absolutely go in blind. I don't care. I'm like, I don't want to hear anything because I'm going to do it anyway. Right? So I've already made up my mind. It's going to happen. I don't need the ins and outs of it. Just tell me what to take and when. And that's it. I don't talk to the doctors. I never ask until I get to the end. I ask how many eggs done. That's it. Again, it's like, I've got two minutes to do this. Give me the instructions and give me the medicines. That's all I do. Because I know that you're a big manifester and you have mood boards and do you- I'm looking at it right now. Right.

So, okay, you actually inspired me to do one and I'm looking at mine right now. So do you feel like you know it's going to happen? You know you're going to have a baby. Is that part of how you cope with something like this? I do know it's going to happen. It will happen in one way, shape or form, whether it's me, whether someone else carries it, whatever. If he wants,

I mean, actually Sergio is so cool. He's like, look, I love you. If you can't have a baby, it is what it is. I love your children. So he's already taken that pressure from me. I already have three kids. So I'm not in this desperate battle with myself that, you know, I don't have any. And I think that's a big, big, big difference, right? I would love to have one for Sergio and for him and for us as a family. Will I fall about and die if I don't? No. Are there a million other ways to skin a cat? Yes. I think the biggest worry for my kids is if Sergio didn't have one, would he leave our family? Sergio's made it abundantly clear that isn't an option for him. I don't have this husband that's pushing me particularly. You know, again, he's

very young, so that could change. But I'm also very matter of fact about all of these things. You know, nothing has to be forever. I think this is just so wonderful for so many people to hear because you're kind of exploding the myth that women lose hope and shrivel in their power as soon as they hit 40. And if they're also divorced, I mean, my goodness, you're taking a risk. And actually, I just love how embracing you are of the opportunities of life. And for anyone who doesn't know, I know that you met Sergio because he came to a recording of your podcast, which is even better. So serendipitous. Yeah, it was. I'd never been there before in my life and he was in the audience.

So, you know, he's a beautiful human. He fits my family. Sergio is a little young, granted. I mean, when I met him, I thought he was 31. Even then I thought that was young. Then I found out he was 24. Then I had a heart attack. But anyway, we're here now. We're three years in and we're married. So somehow it works until it doesn't. And, you know, but I think he's a very, very, very solid man. He really loves us.

And the thing is, he's been through a lot to get here. And I feel like I'm showing women that age is just a number. We have so much fun together. We really do. And I couldn't be with someone with more kids that weren't mine. I'm showing women that age is just a number. We have so much fun together. We really do. And I couldn't be with someone with more kids that weren't mine. It's right for my family. Well, congratulations.

And you look great together. Hi, I'm Matt Lewis, historian and host of a new chapter of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit. Join me and world-leading experts every week as we explore the incredible real-life history that inspires the locations, the characters and the storylines of Assassin's Creed. Listen and follow Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?

This is a time of great foreboding. These words, supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago, these words, supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago, set in motion a chain of gruesome events and sparked cult-like devotion across the world. I'm Matt Lewis. Join us as we unwrap the enigma and get to the heart of what really happened to Thomas Beckett by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit. your first failure is the loss of your business gift library tell us about what happened there it's very hard to say exactly what happened but it was more to do with investors not really getting on you know it's always difficult when you start a business then you go and raise money and then you kind of lose. I always say to people, if you really don't need

the money, don't take the money. Try and hold on to as much as you can because you lose control. And that's basically what happened to me. And then from then on in, it just became harder and harder because they just didn't communicate at all. And it was down to that and sort of, oh, one's not going to be at the board meeting, then I'm not going to be in the board meeting. It becomes impossible. Then they all had a difference of opinions on how they were going to run it, et cetera, et cetera. And it's really hard when you get to a place like that. going for ourselves. But again, it was a loss, but now I look at it and I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be with Sergio. I wouldn't be as successful as I am today. And I'm more successful now than I was then. And what was the concept behind gift library? Luxury online, like a net apporté for gifts. So if you were going to a dinner party or a birthday or whatever, you just go in there and order it and it'd be there by the evening. It must have been very hard then because it wasn't that the business idea or the business

itself was failing. It was completely beyond your control. It's like a personality clash. Yes. And that's what made it a hundred times harder. You know, if I had failed, it would have been easier, much easier. Unfortunately, it was a very hard pill to swallow, but you know, again, these things happen and it's not the first time and it won't be the last. How old were you when it happened? Oh, well, I've been in Dubai seven years. I think I left just afterwards. So about seven years ago, eight years ago, 38, 37, something like that. And now looking back on it, I can hear that you understand sort of why it had

to happen to get you where you are. But when you were in the thick of it, what got you through? I'm very independent. I used to just get home and sort of lock myself in a bathroom and go, what the fuck am I going to do now? I think just talking to myself in a way, I told you, I helicopter myself and get myself through all my own situations, which I think weirdly I've been able to do since boarding school because in boarding school I was there from six to 18. And when I was really miserable, I'd lie in my own room and talk to myself. So I think that's how I do it. Wow. So you went to boarding school when you were six? And I think that it just teaches you to deal with everything on your own because no one else is going to give a shit or come, right? It's not

like I sit there and literally talk out loud to myself, but it's I give myself advice. Yeah. So did you have a not very nice time at school? Oh, I hated it. Absolutely. Why? Were you rebellious? No, no, no. I just wanted to go home. I just didn't enjoy school. I didn't like, it was like bootcamp for me. I just was miserable. I just don't believe in boarding school unless your kids really, really want to go there. I was absolutely forced. I'm so sorry. That's a really tough thing to go through at a very, very young age. It is. I would never do it to my children. Never. But I am the person today because of it. So there you go.

Why do you think boarding schools are such a British thing? I mean, I think my parents did it because all the rich people did it. That's what you do. If you had money, you sent your kids away, which is just bizarre to me to give them away at the most formative years of their life. I mean, you know, my sons, there's just no bloody way they'd have left at six. I mean, just no way. They always say it's character building. And you know, back in the day when I was there, you had three phone calls a week or something ridiculous. And you came out every three times a term. I mean, it's just awful. It's like, I mean, you know, you're literally putting your kids into prison.

I did read something that you had said about your beautiful and tragic former castmate in Ladies of London Annabelle Nielsen who died at the age of 49 and we could see on screen she was it was quite strange to see her on reality television she seemed so lovely but kind of ill-equipped for that form. And I think you said something about how boarding school had enabled you to block stuff out and to realise it was just a TV show, and she didn't have that same facility. Is that right? No, I can't remember if she went to boarding school, actually. I just, I don't think that. I think that for her, she'd always been the popular one. She'd always been the one, you know, the girl that was sort of flying around with the famous people and everybody loved her. And I think on the show, criticism, no matter what, no matter how popular you are, it comes hard and fast from outside outlets, right? From the viewer. from the viewer. And I think it's very, very hard if you've never dealt with criticism in any sort of way and how to process it and what to do. I was used to, you know, when you go to boarding

school or any other place, you have some girls that love you. We got bullied at school or I don't know if you didn't want to eat your breakfast and you were crying. Everyone sort of starts jeering. You're used to it, right? You're used to blocking out the noise. And I don't think Annabelle could block out the noise. I think the worst platform for her was a reality TV show for her mental health. I think even if you're a great person, it doesn't matter who you are. People pick you apart on reality TV. It's just the way. How have you learned to cope with that? Because obviously you have that skill of blocking things out, but is that how you still do it? No, for reality TV, I tend not to read comments. I tend not to get too deeply involved in blogs. I never go looking for my name. I think I've

Googled myself maybe twice in my life. I don't really feed into it. I mean, if you start looking, I think, you know, there's a dark web where there's all these things where you can find shit on yourself and it just becomes a slippery slope. Why? I just don't do it. If I don't like a message, I leave it. I don't even block, unless it becomes really abusive and it's, you know, the same person over and over, I'll leave the messages. Good luck. And is that because you know who you are? So you can kind of look inward for reassurance? No, because why should I be reassured by a complete bloody stranger who's never even met me? You know, I don't understand. Why do I need somebody tells me I'm a bad mother and he

lives in Australia? You know, how the fuck does he know? It's ridiculous. Why on earth would I feed into that? I'm not, I'm not going to even, it's just such a stupid thing. You know, now if you called me up or I'd met you and you said, look, Carol, I've just spent the week with you and you're a terrible mother, then okay, I'm going to go into a light ball and reassess my life. But not because Joe did from Australia. I love that he's from Australia. And I promise I'll never say that to you. When we do inevitably spend a week together and go on a fabulous holiday on a yacht. It wouldn't be a holiday if I took the kids would it? We'll leave them with Sergio and the two of us will sail into the sunset. So the loss of GIF library, am I right in thinking that it ended in extensive bankruptcy litigation

that you were caught up in for years? Eight years, but it wasn't a bankruptcy litigation. It was a civil liquidator. And it's a very interesting thing. I'd love to do something about it eventually, actually, because what happens is civil litigators come in, they shut everything down, they took my stock, and it's all there for you to see, which is meant to go back to the creditors, right, when it happens. I had a lot of money in stock and they sold it without knowing, without asking me for, I think it went for 20 or 30,000 pounds. I mean, criminal. Then you're stuck with lawyers that your insurance company choose.

So your lawyers don't really want to fight because the insurance company wants their money back. So they want you to settle. And it's a very, very, very weird cycle. And I got a lot of support because people have been in it. You know, if I'd been able to sell that stock, I tell you all the creditors would have got their money back myself. You know, nobody asked me. Liquidators are unbelievable. It's like they have some sort of racket going themselves I've got a lot to say on it and one day I'll do a podcast on it I mean I would have gone bankrupt if I'd lost

the case but luckily I didn't I won absolutely everything hands down and in fact the judge said I'm very sorry you ever had to deal with this I was so so by the book. It wasn't even funny. When you have public money, you have accountants in there every bloody day, all day. It was a joke. There was no way anything could have gone wrong my side and it didn't. So she said, I'm sorry you ever had to go through this. I won everything hands down. These guys lost a lot of money and I am extremely happy. these guys lost a lot of money and I am extremely happy. It sounds so brutalizing and you started out by saying more or less but I'm grateful for it because I am where I am now because of it. What do you think that failure taught you about yourself? Well I'm so strong. I spent my 43rd birthday in Queen's Court and I just looked him in the eye, never looked at the judge, looked

at him because he was just out for anything he could get. He was trying to take my family home, anything. This is some little pen pusher who thinks he sees a ton of money and going out for what he could get himself. Taught me how strong I am. And it taught me never to give up because if I had listened to everybody else, I would have settled. I would have given them my children's money, my inheritance for my kids. You know why? And I was like, no, I'm not going to. I'd rather go bankrupt than give them one penny. I'll start again.

And that's what I did. And I went all the way eight years later and I won. And they you see what they're taught is to drag it out, drag it out, drag it out. Because if they drag it out, you're going to give up. Just get rid of it. I never did that. What a testament to your resilient spirit that is. Your second failure, and I'm very sad about this too, Caroline.

The second failure is the end of Ladies of London. Why did you choose this as one of your three failures? Well, I mean, I think, you know, I quit. I'd sort of had enough and I probably had a tantrum. And I think I probably ruined it for everyone. If I look back now, because a lot of that show was hinged on me and my friends. And I think without me, when I said I was leaving, it kind of made it hard for the others to go on. And now I understand how much of a loved show that was by people. And it's funny, you know, you don't know till it's gone, right? I always equate reality TV to like being pregnant. You loathe it while you're in it, but after you've had it, you're like,

I wouldn't mind doing that again. That's it. I think you don't know, right? You just go, I'm done. I'd done it quite a long time. You know, it was three series, but four years doing it, right? So I think you're just over it. It's exhausting. And here I am, I've had a break and I'm done it quite a long time. It was three series, but four years doing it. So I think you're just over it. It's exhausting. And here I am, I've had a break and I'm doing it again. You said that you think you had a tantrum. Explain to me what the tantrum was from your perspective. Well, I think it was when I was losing my company and I'm going through all this. I'm trying to sort this. I've got 76 people being laid off. I've got my offices being taken over. I've got liquidator coming after me. You think that I really want to continue with having to

fight over tea parties. You know, I was just like, I just can't think on that level and this level, you know, without exploding. So I was like, I'm just done. I can't do it. It was the weekend at Judy Montague's house, wasn't it? That's what tips you over the edge. Oh my God. I don't even know where these lines come from. Who says I'm not here for your entertainment, you're here for mine? Who?

I've never heard anything like it in my life. Oh gosh, but it was just such good TV, Caroline. And yeah, it was great. What about the other members of the cast? Are you still in touch with them? Most of them, yes. I don't speak to Julie, really, and I don't speak to Adela.

But the rest of them, yeah, everybody. A lot of them came to my wedding. That's very sad about Adela, because you were school friends, weren't you? Well, no, I knew her for years, since we were about, I don't know, 16, 17. She didn't go to school with me, but yes, we were. We've known each other for years and years and years.

But reality TV does funny things to different people. And I think she was brought on to sort of rile me and she did. Do you think that reality TV goes to some people's heads and then they just become their ego rather than the person you want to know? 100%. You're being given a platform and you're buying into bullshit. And at the end of the day, you've got to remind yourself what's important. But if you've got nothing else, reality TV and Instagram and all of these things can be very, very, very addictive because you've got people every day telling you you're amazing and that person's a bitch. Yeah. So who came to your wedding? Did Juliet come?

Of course, Juliet came, Caroline Fleming came, Sophie came, and that was it. Marissa was just too far. She's 17 hours away. Okay. I love that you're still in touch. That's a real testament to you, really. So reflecting back on the end of Ladies of London, what do you think that period of your life gave you? What do you think you took from the failure of it? I think it gave me just more and more balls. I moved to the Middle East. Let's not downplay this.

I moved to a place I don't think I'd ever been before in my life, other than to pop through for a night to go to the Maldives. I had never been to the Middle East. And now I'm probably about to become one of the most never been to the Middle East. So, and now I'm probably about to become one of the most famous women in the Middle East in less than how many years. It's quite funny. I think one of my famous things is you're not a tree. You can move. If you don't like it, move. And I like to take life by the balls. This won't be my last stop. This is my middle stop. like to take life by the balls. This won't be my last stop. This is my middle stop. And I always say, say yes to everything because it's easier to get out than it is to get in. And you never know

where it's going to lead you. Look, you know, I'm in the Middle East. I'm doing, I've got so many businesses here. I'm super happy. I'm thriving. I've got a beautiful family here and I'm now doing the first ever reality TV show out of the Middle East. And mark my words, it's just the beginning. It's really exciting. And you're good friends with Dorinda, aren't you? From The Real Housewives of New York. Love Dorinda. What do you love about her? She's just fun. She's just funny and she's crazy. And she's also real. She's just real.

There's no bullshit with Dorinda. Okay, so your final failure is not going to university tell us why you picked this one I think I was in such a hurry to grow up and do everything so fast and I probably missed that experience I think we all grow up too fast life has changed I think maybe when you were like we were dying at 50 before we're dying at 100 now and so I think we are pushing our children to sort of finish school at 18 and become adults. And actually, I think it's a big mistake. And here I am marrying a guy that's 27. But I, you know, I would not have let my son marry me, that's for sure. But I think try and keep them children as

long as they can be. And that gives them just another few years without bills and, you know, just being able to enjoy and learn and understand who they are. Because if I look back in my 20s, I thought I knew everything. And now I understand I knew absolutely bloody nothing. Is there part of it that you regret not going to university? Because quite often when people say they regret not going to university, it's because they feel like imposters or they feel like people patronize them when they get into business settings it's not that no no no I'm queen of fake it till you make it I raised my first however many million with a piece of paper in one of the largest funds in Europe so no and I had no experience I don't believe that I think if you're clever and you're smart and you're street smart and you have your vocabulary, you can do anything. I think that university was an experience and the experience that I missed and friendships I missed, nothing more than that for

me. Okay. Where do you get that from, that confidence to go and raise your first million? I don't know. The art of self-belief, I think, fully believing yourself and gift of the gab. And that's all businesses ever is. You know, your business, you may start exactly the same business as me and it will go in a totally different trajectory because no matter how much you plan for something, it never goes the way you think. As long as you have enough money and a basis and then you've got a smart people behind you. And I always hire smarter people than I am a business is a snowball once it starts moving and gets momentum it's unstoppable and it's just the beginning that's painful taking the first step and raising that

first million is the hardest step after that is easy and you said a bit earlier that you are a massive advocate for saying yes to everything because you can get out of stuff, but you need to be in it. And I wonder whether you're someone who has a five-year plan or whether you're much more likely to take opportunities as and when they come and to have the space for that? Like how much of a planner are you? No, I have the space for everything. I have my vision board. I don't have anything bigger than that. I have my vision board with all the things that I want to achieve and I just tick them off and slowly, you know, it's quite amazing how quickly you see them come off. Just changed them last week, but that's as big as it gets. I take every opportunity. I mean, now, you know, with the show and things like this, it's different for me now, because obviously, I'm with CAA, and I've got big managers. And so I can't just go, oh, yeah, I'd love to promote this or do that anymore. But business wise, the big deals that I work on, and the things that I'm, you know, really passionate about, and I work with a lot of

very high powered men, and I really enjoy it. And that will come out soon. I'm in the middle of a massive deal at the moment, which is super exciting. Those kind of deals, I always leave room for because I believe opportunity knocks. And if it finds its way to me, it's normally for me. Interesting. Can you talk to us a bit more about manifesting and how you came to it and what it involves? I came to it just by accident. I'd just seen everyone do these boards and things like that. And I just wanted to try and I started when I met Sergio, really. I mean,

the funny thing is, I always said I saw Sergio, I manifested him, I used to see him very, very clearly. And I manifested the house I'm in, it was all white or glass. And let me tell you, finding an all white or glass house in the Middle East is not easy. Very modern. I thought I was in Los Angeles, I'm actually here. And he was here. Somebody said to me, you've got these amazing powers, maybe the first million, all of these things that just everything I always wish for came. And so I started putting them on paper and just visualizing them. And I'm a very visual person. I drive my secretary nuts. I never look at my calendar. I make her print out every day what I'm doing on paper so I can see it.

I have these stupid chalkboards everywhere, like a mad scientist. And everyone's going, no, you've got to hide this. I'm like, I raised a crazy amount of money for one business just now. And I just put it on a board and looked at it. And I was like, how am I going to get from here to there? And then once I see it, it becomes easier because you see the steps in between. And so now I think we just do it all the time because we just simply tick them off. And then once I see it, it becomes easier because you see the steps in between. And so now I think we just do it all the time because we just simply tick them off. And I don't know whether it's just visualizing the end and then understanding that, you know, when you see it on a board in front of you, you understand how many steps to get there and it just becomes easier. And then once you start ticking these things off your board, it comes so exciting.

I had my fashion line, so I got my shoe line. I've got a book deal coming. You know, I'm building like a hotel at the moment. It's really exciting stuff that I don't talk about, but it's there. And I just slightly tick everything off as it comes, because I'm also don't want to sort of jinx it all. But then everybody looks at it on my, my Instagram or whatever else. I do like to give people the tools. It just works for me, whether it's my brain calculating clever steps to get there. And by watching it, I know who I need to see to get there. And also I never take no for an answer. I drive people crazy until I get what I want. That's so interesting because I think I've had a misperception about manifesting as literally just being sticking a picture on a board and then it all happens and

what you're saying is when you have a visual end goal then your mind and your brain as you say can do the rest of the work so it's not about inaction it's about knowing the actions to take yes absolutely so another good thing to do is be really specific. So I do the pictures, then I do the words, right? Then I'll have a chalkboard or whatever plan and I'll go, okay, step one. So like, okay, one business say they wanted, I don't know, 20 million pounds, whatever, because I raise money for different businesses here too. Then I go, okay, so it's in this field. Now I need to find this guy.

I need to find that fund. And then I need to put these people together. And that's how I get there. And then it becomes so much easier. It's broken down and it's broken down in such an easy sort of way. You're like, oh, okay. Baby steps next. And then when you've done the first one, everything becomes simple. Once you see the first thing ticked off your list, we've got to be specific. Like when I, with my podcast, when I started, I just wrote 1 million listeners. I'm at two and a half now. You know, it just happened so quickly. I'm like, oh, I literally woke up, be specific. What does Sergio think of it? Is he a manifester as well?

Yes. He always says he manifested me, which makes me laugh. I'm like, what? I'm the girl of your dreams. 46 year old divorcee with three kids. I think when people don't understand why it works is because it works together. Some things drive me nuts about, as I said, the generation gap. But then, you know, when I think about what an older person would drive me nuts, then, you know, he's more malleable. We have so much fun getting to the place together so we can separate the jobs. You go do that and I'll go do that. And then somehow we managed to close. I mean, that's worth at least a couple of rose petal baths. I mean, that's great. That's a great deal you've got there. Here I am moaning about rose petal baths in Bali. Most girls are like,

I'll get a rose petal bath with Sergio. So I would love to ask your advice just to draw this conversation to a close. So I would love to ask your advice, just to draw this conversation to a close. Talk to a woman who might be finding herself in a marriage that isn't as happy as it could be and feels like it's failing, but she's of a certain age and she thinks, I'm too scared of what lies beyond what is already known in my life. And I feel trapped and I've also got my kids. And I'm really scared about what will happen if I make a change. Could you give advice to that particular person? Well, I mean, that's most women that want divorce, not that are happy, obviously.

It's a very difficult one, because for them, it's down to finance, if they've ever worked before, or if they've got enough balls to go out and do it. Luckily, I never gave up work, but I am a firm believer. And I think, you know, how you look at it, a lot of women go, I'm scared of being alone. Now, if you've got children, what the fuck does alone look like? Because you're never alone. And actually, if you're in a marriage where you're unhappy in the bedroom, as in, I don't mean about sex, but I mean, just even just communication, then you're alone anyway. And I'd rather be alone because there's nothing worse than lying next to someone that you don't get on with anymore.

I'd rather be in a bed stretched out watching whatever show I want. So I looked at it that way. Then financially, because I was in my law case as well, which is possibly the worst time I could have ever chosen to get divorced. I was like, OK, so what does my life look like if I don't find anyone and I've got no money? So I was like, okay, so I've got jobs. And then I was like, I'll just get a one bedroom house. And then I'm like, wait, hang on a minute, I've got an ex-husband with three kids, so he's going to have to help me with the rent and the rest I can do. Then from then on, it just became easy in my head. I think that's really wise actually I'm a big

believer in constructive pessimism in kind of thinking of the worst thing that could happen and then thinking could I cope with it and most of the time you could cope with it nobody died yeah exactly and it's instructive because if you live in a world where the worst thing is possible then you also have to believe that the best thing is possible. And the truth is probably going to be somewhere in between the two. Are you, Caroline Stanbury, someone who has any regrets? No, I don't believe in regrets. They only feed anxiety and your confidence. Regrets, it's if you made that decision, there was a reason for it, stick to it, never look back, you're only going forward. And life is, I believe it's if you made that decision there was a reason for it stick to it never look back you're only going forward and life is I believe it's already mapped out for you really I mean it really is I couldn't have made up meeting Sergio and getting married and ending up where

I've ended up on one trip to Orange County it's nuts the way my life has been and I believe that he was meant to be here and I'm exactly where I'm meant to be so I regret nothing. Caroline Stanbury thank you so so much for coming on How To Fail. Thank you for having me it's been really great. If you enjoyed this episode of How To Fail with Elizabeth Day. I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently it helps other people know that we exist.