How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - S15, Ep5 How To Fail: Domenica Calarco, the star of Married At First Sight Australia on divorce, anxiety and reality TV

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

Well, you asked. And here she is. Domenica Calarco, the breakout star from the latest season of Married At First Sight Australia, is one of my most requested guests. On screen, we fell in love with her feisty Italian character, her brutal honesty and her friendship with fellow contestant Ella May Ding. Off screen, Domenica is an absolute treasure: hilarious, talkative and with plenty to say about the whole MAFS experience. Yes, we talk about Olivia. Yes, we talk about Jack. Yes, we talk about Mitch. But if you've never watched MAFS and you don't know what I'm on about, fear not - this is also a beautiful conversation about the shame she felt as a young divorcee and how her quest for love led her into a life-changing decision that ultimately brought her happiness (but not in the way you'd expect). Domenica talks openly about her struggles with anxiety, panic attacks, her feelings of failure and her experiences with internet trolling and becoming a public figure overnight. Listen to be moved and entertained (and to hear a surprise guest).--If you would like to attend one of the first ever LIVE How To Fail recordings on 5th-8th October, you can book tickets here: https://www.fane.co.uk/how-to-fail--How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted and produced by Elizabeth Day. To contact us, email [e-mail]--Social Media:Elizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpod Domenica Calarco @domenica.calarco Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. Well, I've got some very exciting news. I mean, I guess it depends how you classify exciting, but for me, it's thrilling, which is that How to Fail is going live for the first time ever. I am doing four consecutive nights of live recordings in front of an audience, and you can be part of it. If you are free on the 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th of October, and you can get to Shoreditch Town Hall in East London, then I would love to see you there. You will be part of a very, very special evening. Not only do you get to see how the podcast is made and you get

to analyze my interviewing style up close, but you also get a chance to ask your own questions of me and my very, very special guests. Plus afterwards, there'll be books and merch on sale. And I just know from having done How to Fail events before that the community this podcast creates is something so unbelievably warm and full of solidarity forged through vulnerability. I personally would bloody love to see you there. So if you want to come, go to www.fane.co.uk forward slash how hyphen to hyphen fail. That's www.fane, F-A-N-E.co.uk forward slash how hyphen to hyphen fail. And if you want to know who the guests are, on the 5th of October, I have an incredibly beloved return guest, Mo Gowdat. On the 6th of

October, I have legendary feminist icon, Katlin Moran. On the 7th of October, I have the disco dancing queen herself, Sophie Ellis Baxter. And on the 8th of October, I have the king icon legend, Craig David. Please come along. I'd love to see you there. Tickets are available to book now. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, the podcast that celebrates the things that haven't gone right. This is a podcast about learning from our mistakes and understanding that why we fail ultimately makes us stronger, because learning how to fail in life actually means learning how to succeed better. I'm your host, author and journalist Elizabeth Day, and every week

I'll be asking a new interviewee what they've learned from failure. So allow me to tell you a story. Like millions of other viewers across the globe, I watch Married at First Sight Australia. In fact, let's be honest, I've been watching it for a few years, but I've never cheered on a contestant as much as I did Domenica Calarco, the 20-something makeup artist with a loving Italian family who was looking for a lasting relationship after her first marriage had ended in divorce. From the outset, Domenica seemed so open, strong, funny, and yes, she also had excellent hair. Her coupling with Jack didn't continue romantically beyond the end of the show, but they're still friends.

Perhaps the most dramatic storyline of the season involved Domenica being goaded and bullied by another contestant, but she emerged from the mess with her dignity intact. I was impressed by how she'd held herself, always owning up to anything she'd done wrong and sticking firmly to her principles. But the most heartening storyline of MAFs 2022 was arguably the friendship between Dom and Ella, which displayed the very best of female solidarity. The two of them now have a

podcast, which I listen to religiously, called Sit With Us. Anyway, back to the story. So early this year, I had a haircut. My style inspo was Domenica from Maths. I posted about it on Instagram, not thinking that much of it. Then someone messaged me saying Domenica had reposted it on her stories. Not only that, but she turned out to be a fan of How To Fail. So I slid into her DMs and we started possibly my most favourite social media generated friendship of all time. We've now graduated to WhatsApp. We made a plan to meet when she was in London. And today, Dominica is right here sitting in my house. And I'm so incredibly excited to welcome

her to How to Fail. Welcome, Dom. Oh my God, that was so lovely. Thank you so much. That made me really emotional. Wow. It's like you just summed it up so perfectly and wow, I am so honoured and blessed to be here right now, sitting at your dining table in your beautiful home. On having met Huxley, that's the first thing you did, met my cat. Met Huxley. That's the first thing you did. Met my cat. Met Huxley. He's gorgeous. Thank you. I'll tell him. And I just wanted to tell that story because it feels so serendipitous that we're sitting here. It really does.

It really, it's like so beautiful. And as soon as people on Instagram made the connection and saw that you'd reposted that, I had so many people requesting you as a guest. Wow. So I want you to know how beloved you are. Do you feel that? Like, is it, how does it make you feel to know that you have been so supported from across the globe during your maths journey? It's honestly the most surreal feeling knowing that my story and just the show in general, I guess, reached, you know, as far as the UK and other countries.

You know, I get messages every day from people in the Netherlands, from I had messages from Portugal the other day. Like it's just incredible. But knowing the support that comes from people that watch the show and that they just, I guess, related to me on so many different levels, you know, whether that be, you know, they're from a big Italian family or they've had struggles with their mental health or maybe they are allowed to and they've been judged for that in their past. So it's just relating on so many different levels. It's really heartening.

We were talking before we started recording about how the executive producer on Math said to all the contestants you've got to be yourself because if you're not yourself that will come across and it really strikes me meeting you in person you're exactly the same as you are on screen yeah was that something that just came really naturally to you look I think yeah it's really hard for me to be anything else I am you know I said it on the show as well I'm a princess bogan I else. I am, you know, I said it on the show as well, I'm a princess bogan. I am loud. I am probably, you know, somewhat a little bit, maybe a bit obnoxious sometimes but in a good way.

But, look, I can't be anything but myself. And that was one of the things that my family said to me, you know, when I got approved for the show was, oh, my God, Dominica, like we're worried about you because we know how you are and some people can take that the wrong way. And me being the Pisces I am, I'm like, oh no, it's fine. You know, I am who I am. It's not a big issue, but yeah, it turned out it can be an issue, you know, for some people I'm a bit much. Do you know what? It's so interesting though. I don't feel like men ever get told they're too much. It's something that I experienced a lot of when I was dating after my divorce, and we're going to get onto that because we're both young divorcees. And I was dating in my late thirties and I used the apps for the first time because I'd been in a series of

long-term monogamous relationships up to that point. Of course, yes. You didn't need the apps. No. I know. So it was like a baptism of fire and that was one of the things that kept coming up you're a bit too much and I was like in what way in what world when is too much a bad thing it's a bit of a cop-out I think it's you know I really just think it reflects on the other person that they can't or they're not open to accepting different types of people really I think that's what it comes down to it's not that you are I don't know how to say another version of too much but like what just because I'm loud or I have a voice and

I like to express my opinions and I get overly excited and I get happy and my emotions I guess are probably elevated at times I don't't know. It's a weird thing. But men are never told that they're too much. It's interesting. Yeah, the thing that I came down to was maybe I'm not too much, maybe you're not enough. I think that's what it is. Well, I think, you know, being a divorcee, going on maths and, you know,

coming out with amazing relationships but not a romantic one, I've really learnt a lot about myself going into the dating scene yet again and wanting to find someone to spend my life with and have fun with. I know I'm a lot but I need someone and I want someone that's going to be able to take that on board and be able to handle me. Do you know, when I say that, though, it has such a negative, like, connotation to it. But I think you're amazing. I don't even think you're that loud. and be able to handle me do you know when I say that though it just it has such a negative like connotation to it but I I think you're amazing I don't even think you're that loud like I

I think you're perfect I think you're 29 yeah but I would not know that you look incredible and obviously you look so young but you are an old soul and I think part of the problem with maths was that you were matched according to age as well yes I think you need an old soul and I think part of the problem with maths was that you were matched according to age as well. I think you need an older man. 100% and I said that going into it. I said I want and I need an older man and then they gave me a 26 year old you know and Jack is an amazing guy. Like he is so beautiful and the way that he held himself through a lot of the shit that came our way you know during maths was just a testament to him and his incredible upbringing and the man that he is. But I definitely feel as though I need an older man, someone that is confident in himself. Because I think sometimes

my confidence or my exuberance can freak men out a little bit and make them kind of doubt themselves. That's the way I look at it now. Like I flip the switch. I think with my confidence and with my outgoingness, it kind of can intimidate men a little bit. But even when I say, oh, you know, I intimidate men, it's a negative thing again. But I think we just need to flip the narrative and take it in our stride. Like I'm like whatever. Honestly, if I'm too much for you or if, you know,

you think I'm too loud or too outgoing, well, that's fine. Then we're just not matched, you know. Now the other star of the show was, indubitably, your grandmother, your nonna. How is she? Oh, nonna is amazing. We just spoke to her on the phone this morning and she's just excited that we're here travelling

because I'm here with my mum and my younger brother. And, yeah, she's amazing. I think, you know, if anything, I look up to her and her incredible relationship that she had with my grandfather. You know, they were married for over 50 years. She misses him every single day. And what she went through, you know, coming to Australia when she was 14 years old, didn't speak a word of English,

didn't finish school, worked in a fruit shop and then, you know, worked like three jobs. My grandfather had schizophrenia, so he didn't work pretty much my mum's upbringing. So my nonna really hustled and built a life for her and her family. And that is just fucking amazing. How often do we hear stories like that of a woman who really took the reins for her family? And my grandfather was in and out of mental hospitals, you know, like these were back in the days where electrotherapy was used and all that kind of stuff. And imagine that you've got three young babies to feed. You've got a mortgage to pay off.

You've got all of this pressure on you. But yet she stuck to it and she loved my grandfather and never lost that love. That's incredible. Did you know your grandfather? Yes. Yeah, yeah. He passed away 11 years ago and he was an amazing man. I miss him every single day. Even though he had his mental health issues, I think a lot of them stemmed from the fact that when he grew up in Trieste there were German soldiers that came through his town and he saw I think a lot more than what he told us, you know, than what he opened up.

He had this weird thing where if we whistled at night we couldn't whistle at night because the German soldiers would do that and it would bring back memories. Yeah, like he had an incredible story and he left Istria when he was 19 and never saw his mother again. You know what I mean? So like, it's just an incredible story of what my grandparents had, you know, the life that they lived and the love story. I think it's something that I look up to, and I wish that I could find a love like that, that is just so unrelenting. And even through

those kinds of struggles. That's such an extraordinary story. And I wonder whether you're very open about mental health, which is one of the things I really admire about you, both on maths, subsequent to maths on your podcast with Ella. Do you think that's partly because your family's always been open about mental health? I think definitely, you know, look from a young age, my parents were very open that Nurnur is a little bit different and, you know, he struggles and we were always really aware of that. You know, it was never made to feel like this is a disability or something that's a negativity.

So from a very young age, I was aware of that. And then going into my own struggles as a teenager, I was never made to feel as though it was a bad thing. And look, my parents did struggle. I think it was hard for them as well, dealing with a teenager that was going on antidepressants and that was really depressed. And how do you deal with that as a parent, seeing your child be upset and hiding away from the world when you just want everything for your child? So going into maths, I knew 100% I was going to be open and honest with not only Jack, but I guess just my story on the show as well, just being open with my feelings. I've never shied away from voicing how I feel. I think it's a beautiful thing. We all have feelings and why shouldn't we talk about

them? We're going to come on to talk about maths much more because it involves one of your failures. But just tell us now how you feel about it, having emerged from this extraordinary success story in terms of TV ratings, but that must have been very surreal because it was filmed, I understand, during lockdown. So how has it felt coming out of that?

It's so surreal thinking back to when we filmed Maths because we were in a lockdown in Sydney. So it was really hectic. We weren't allowed to leave our apartment, only one hour a day on a chaperone walk. That's insane because those apartments are tiny. Oh, they're tiny, tiny, tiny. So you can't hide.

Like you're in there with this person you just married and you can't shy away. So, I mean, it is good and bad. It has its positives and negatives because it did really speed up the relationship because you get to know each other a lot quicker. But coming off filming and experiencing it, then living it again, watching it on TV was a completely different experience. Before going on, they did tell us, you know, you live it twice.

You actually live it and then you have to re-watch it and go through all those emotions again. And it's like double the emotions when you're watching it back because you've got all the extra stuff that's going on that you didn't see that does affect you. And then you're re-watching it and then you've got everyone else that's watching it, their opinions and the media as well on top of that, which the media is not very helpful at times definitely, but I think, you know, look, I know that they've got their job to do and I understand especially in Australia like maths rates higher than anything like broadcast in Australia, higher than the tennis, higher than

the NRL, which is a huge sport in Australia, like higher than anything. So it just garners a lot of attention and everyone talks about it. It's the one thing, you know, when it was airing, I had so many people coming up to me being like, oh, we talk about maths on our lunch breaks. Like it's, we look forward to talking about maths the next day. Everyone talks about it. So I've got a few geeky questions. Please. Yes. At the dinner parties. So you told me before we started recording that basically there's a week between each dinner party. Yes. And they perform a useful function because you don't know as a contestant what's been going on in the other couples. We know that watching it. Exactly. Okay.

So at the dinner party, when the experts are watching it, are they actually watching it live or is it a recording of edited highlights? They are actually there. Stop. Yep, can confirm they are there. So where Maths is filmed, it's in this like giant production, I don't know what you call it, like a set. It's just a big set, right?

And so it's a huge building but we've got to walk through there to get to like our green room. So when we're walking past we have to be quiet because it's like on set, we're recording. But, yeah, they are there. I don't think that what they're looking at is actually what's on that screen. I think that's edited but they're just seeing like all different

camera angles and then like the control room flicks through what they should be seeing yeah it's crazy I know it's I love the experts please tell me they're great people I really love them too you only see a small portion of what advice they give on the couch right but we're there for like an hour and a half on the couch so we do get a lot of advice from them and they are amazing, kind people from what I've experienced. You know, I really hate seeing some of the contestants coming out and saying that the experts are fake and that they've just got an earpiece in and they don't care. Like they're just there and they walk off set. But that's not what I experienced. I experienced

people that were genuine and that really wanted the best for us and actually cared about our feelings and wanting our relationships to work. Like why wouldn't they? So do you choose your own wedding dress? So you have three options. So you've got to choose three, right? So you've got to make sure that you like these three dresses because they choose which dress you end up wearing. Oh, okay.

Yeah, and so obviously it made it harder to choose a wedding dress because we were in lockdown. So I ended up just going on Rachel Gilbert. She's an incredible Australian designer and I just chose one of her like ready-to-wear bridal pieces. So my dress literally was just bought straight away and then we just got it altered. But I chose three dresses from her her label and then just

removing my cat from the table he's so cute though oh my god to be involved he's like give me attention kind of like Millie she just if Millie was here she'd be like oh I just loved how much you and Jack loved your dogs oh my god and the bit where the dog ran up the aisle oh that made that like I feel like it made the series, really. Just our love of dogs. But, yeah, the wedding dresses, you have three options and then they choose. And it's not a really legally binding wedding.

No, thank goodness, because we all know how long a divorce takes and we don't want another. No, it's a commitment. It's just like a, you know, they say a few nice words and okay and when you go back to each other's sort of hometowns and you have that moment of about a week where you decide whether you want to recommit yes are you in touch with each other at all with your romantic partner like are you allowed to text and stuff well so you're not really meant to they say no contact no contact but jack and i did like message and, you know,

we've spent three months together with this person every day, like 24-7, seven days a week. So we became best friends. And, I mean, we still are to a certain extent. Obviously Jack's gone on with his life. But during that time we were definitely in touch. Like we weren't meant to but we were. We were naughty.

Oh, my God. Thank you for indulging me. I know. I feel like they're the most asked question because people really want to know, are they really there? Are they? Do you do it in one take? Do you do it multiple times?

I mean, you walk down the aisle multiple times, but you just do the thing once. Okay. And things like the storylines where there's a couple cheating, Daniel and Carolina. How set up is that by producers? Look, from my perspective and from what I knew was going on, had no idea.

I'm telling you, I'm pretty cluey. Like I see stuff and I'm a bit nosy. I like to look what's happening. But I can tell you right now, I had no idea. Obviously, Carolina wasn't into Dion. Like we could see that, right? But there was no, we had no idea that she was canoodling with Daniel. Not until they walked in. But in saying that, we didn't know until the reunion what actually was going on. Like when they played it for us and saw that they were going on dates. Jack and I weren't allowed to go and have a drink at a pub. They were going on dates, which I understand it's

for the show. Like the show organises all of that. Like production does all that. But yeah, no, we did not know. Okay. Final question before I get onto your failures. Who are you still in touch with contestant wise from the show? Of course I'm in touch with Jack. We have a great relationship still. Like honestly, we're still best friends. I love him. He's an incredible bloke. And obviously Ella. I've found a new best friend.

I think being able to make a new friend as an adult is so hard and I think that's why our friendship resonated so much with so many people because being able to create new relationships and friendships as you get older is so hard. So I'm so blessed and lucky to have found her and have this incredible relationship. But yeah, other than that, I'm still in touch with Brent and Al. Excellent. Yeah. They're just amazing guys. Have they become a couple? They pretty much are. I mean, they are. Al is hilarious. Like I can't tell you just how funny and how genuine and just he has the kindest heart.

I've never met anyone like Al. He's brilliant. But, yeah, other than that, no, I don't speak to anyone, don't keep in touch with anyone. You know, I think for me a big thing was no one reached out and apologised to me for a lot of the things, especially at the reunion, things that were said about me. No one reached out and said, I'm sorry the way I acted

or the way I treated you, which was very telling. It just showed a lot of, okay, well, they really are like that. You know, it wasn't the stress of the show or it wasn't pressure that made them like that. It was actually how they are. In terms of Olivia and that whole storyline, I tried to reach out to her, like I actually did. She blocked me on every platform

possible. So the only way for me to even get anything through was through like the publicist, like Endemol Shine. So when everything was going down and she was copying a lot of hate and it was just a lot of pressure. It was a lot in Australia. Like, I don't know what you guys saw here in the UK, but in Australia Australia there was just a lot of media hate and that didn't sit well with me. Like obviously she had hurt me and there was a lot of animosity between us, right, but it didn't sit well with me that this woman was copying all of this hate

and my name was attached to that. And it wasn't a selfish thing like, oh, my God, I don't want to be associated with that. It was more like I can't sit back and just watch this happen and knowingly just sit back while she's copying all this shit and not try and do something about it. So I reached out to like Channel 9, the production company, to make sure that she was getting help, sending messages

through them being like, Olivia, I just hope that you're okay. I don't want to try and perpetuate this because, you know, when you do radio interviews and all of these, they try and get. You always get asked about it. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, and I know I will forever, right? Like I'll always get asked about it.

And I'm open to talking about it, right? I just want to talk about it in the way that, yes, we did have all that animosity and, yeah, I don't think she's particularly a nice person and she did hurt me, but I don't wish on her what she received from the press and from the public. To my mind, it was almost like the press was doing to Olivia what she had been doing to you. And you can obviously relate to that. So for anyone who, I don't know why you wouldn't have watched maths, but if you didn't, what happened was Olivia, who by her own admission doesn't have empathy,

was Olivia, who by her own admission doesn't have empathy, I felt goaded and bullied you and was very demeaning and critical of you and your manner and your voice specifically. And it felt like this had been going on for quite a while and it came to a head and you lashed out in the sense that you were so frustrated you broke a glass. You didn't break it at anyone, you broke it on a table, you didn't brandish it like a weapon, as she later claimed, all of that stuff.

And then we could see as a viewer the extraordinary negative impact that that had had on you and you essentially were having a panic attack, I felt like, after that. And Jack was amazing throughout. I mean, what you saw on the show and what actually happened, I thought I was, like, dying. I had never had a panic attack like that in my life. I completely broke down. Like, I thought I was going dying. I had never had a panic attack like that in my life. I completely broke down.

Like I thought I was going to be sick. I was shaking. I was sweating. But I was cold. It was the worst experience of my life. And all I was crying for was my mum. I was like, I just want my mum. I just want my mum.

And the producers, you know, were saying, look, it's 2 o'clock in the morning. If you call your mum crying like that, she's going to panic, which she would have. In hindsight, I recognise that. And the production were all great. Like I had a lot of support, as did Olivia in that sense as well. Throughout the whole experiment we had psychologists on hand 24-7

whenever we needed it. But I watch that back and I just really reflecting I see myself and that action of breaking the glass as trying to deflect and trying to protect myself. It was trying to be like, okay, this is enough. Stop this. You know what I mean? I can see that.

And in that moment no one else recognised that, but that's what that was. It was just stop. Just when is it going to be enough for you? Because I think she really saw that that was a bit of a weakness of mine and she knew and she just kept picking and picking and picking. And I mean, she got what she wanted out of it. It was the worst thing I could have done because in turn,

that's what she continued to just use against me. And you owned it. You apologized for it. It was a completely genuine apology. You understand you've done something wrong. And Olivia couldn't let it go. Again, this is just this is my perception as a viewer then a second part came to her head when she shared a photo of you

that came from your OnlyFans account yes and did so behind your back and it was a matter of making other people think badly of you and laughing at you behind your back yes and it all came to her at a dinner party again you handled yourself exquisitely. So did Jack. I was so impressed by Jack. And you said the immortal words afterwards, which I now know are on t-shirts. What were the words? My body, my choice, bitch. Yes. Yep. Honestly, I salute you for that, for that courage. And I now, I understand that Olivia herself is on OnlyFans. Yeah, she's on OnlyFans and look, each to their own. I think for her it wasn't a very smart decision to do that.

All knowing what had happened on the show, coming off, going and doing her own OnlyFans account, of course people are going to target her in the same way that she targeted me and, you know, leaking her content, which, yes, is behind a paywall and goes against OnlyFans terms and conditions, but also what people are doing by sharing images like that, it is actually illegal in New South Wales where I reside and where the show was filmed.

So the issue and what the issue was the entire time was not the fact that she was telling people that I had OnlyFans. It was actually the crux of what she was trying to do with that was to socially isolate me and to make me feel like shit amongst this group of people in this environment. That actually is what is illegal, is what she intended to do with that photo. Right. It's not the photo itself.

I'm not saying, oh, she got it off the internet so that's illegal. I don't give a shit. Whatever. Like, you want to get a photo of me? Go ahead. It's what she decided to do with that photo and how she decided to use that photo against me to socially isolate me. I mean, she decided to do OnlyFans now and all the power to her. Like if she wants to do it, that's great. But she's got to realise that it comes with a lot of pressure.

It's not easy, mate. I'll tell you that right now. Like when I did OnlyFans, it was after my divorce, we were going into a global pandemic. Obviously I'm a makeup artist. Makeup artists' jobs were completely, you know, redundant during COVID. There's no one's faces to make up. So I knew of OnlyFans and I knew that I could make some extra money off it. And I needed to buy a fridge. I needed to pay my rent to help me before the government started to give us money. And I don't regret it. And I think it is an empowering thing. It's a woman going out there and actually helping herself. I don't understand the stigma towards selling. I even hate saying selling yourself because it's not. I mean, if you post a sponsored

post on Instagram, you're selling yourself. So true. I think it's all about context, isn't it? It's like, if you're doing it because you want to titillate a specific power dynamic that is the male gaze. And if that's the only reason that you're doing it and you sort of feel like you should, because that's what it is, that's what it means to be a woman then maybe you've got to consider the context yes of whether that's something that you want to do for your own reasons of empowerment or whether actually you're being pushed into it by a complicated and unequal dynamic in society you were doing it in full awareness I, of that structure because you needed a fridge. You were doing it for yourself.

100%. It's actually like a female gaze aspect to it. Yes. In the same way as you're right, like makeup or Instagram posts. 100%. And I honestly went into it all well knowing that probably my parents aren't going to be that happy that I'm doing it or my brothers aren't or when my aunties

and uncles and my big Italian family find out. But it wasn't about that. It was about me helping myself and knowing that I have something that I can use to my advantage. Like it's all well and good for men to make money off women and all of that kind of stuff, but when a woman wants to make money from her own self, it's demeaning in some way. It's demeaning.

Did you get a fridge? I got the fridge, babe. I got the fridge and I earned a good amount more. And I was able to pay my rent. I was able to fucking survive. Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest? This is a time of great foreboding. These words, supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago,

these words, supposedly uttered by a king over 800 years ago set in motion a chain of gruesome events and sparked cult-like devotion across the world I'm Matt Lewis Join us as we unwrap the enigma and get to the heart of what really happened to Thomas Beckett by subscribing to Gone Medieval from History Hit. Peyton, it's happening.

We're finally being recognized for being very online. It's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo. All the time. So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions, if you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second.

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Watch new episodes on YouTube or listen to Let Me Say This ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I could honestly talk to you for days. I am aware that I've got to get onto the failures. Let's talk about your first one, which is your failed marriage marriage so you got divorced at the age of 27 and I'm so glad you picked this one because there are quite a sizable number of young divorcees and I would count myself among them even though I was 35 but still still young goodness me yeah and I'm so glad you've chosen to speak about it so why have you chosen to categorise it as a failure? Look, that's such a good question.

I think when a marriage ends, I think just it's classified as a failure, right? It's a failed marriage. It's a failed relationship. And I chose it as one of my failures because at the time it was like the world had just fallen and crumbled and it was like, how do I pick myself up and move on from this? It really, truly was.

And, I mean, I assume you felt the same to a certain extent. I don't know. Totally the same. I felt so much shame. And actually it's so interesting, isn't it? Oh, my God. Because it's like I remember my best friend saying, would you end this relationship if you weren't married?

And I was like, 100% yes. But because we'd got married and we'd made that statement, and as it should be, like you should take that so seriously. Of course, yeah. But I had this real, and I don't know if you had it as well, this real fear about telling my parents. Oh, honestly. Wow. So telling my parents. Oh, honestly, wow. I think not only my parents, like my brothers, I'm really close to my brothers, but my nonna as well. Marriage, you know, in that generation is like the be all and end all,

to be married, to buy a house, to have kids. And the shame linked with that. Oh, my God, like shame and failure I think really just go hand in hand here, especially when it comes to divorce. For me, I just remember so vividly having that phone call with my parents and then having to like sit across the table from my parents and have that conversation. And my dad not really understanding being like, but what did he do wrong? Like why? You know, and it's so hard to put into words at that point when I was so like set, like I knew that it had ended.

There was no going back. There was no counselling we could do. There was no amount of healing that could fix what we had lost. And it's so hard to describe that to my parents and get that message across when you know they're in a 30 plus year marriage and yeah they have their struggles as well but they never have gotten to that point where it's like I can't be with this person so the shame that came with that and seeing how it hurt my mum she really didn't want other people to know, people in the family and people talk.

So that was a really big thing. It was like, okay, people are going to talk. Dominica's getting a divorce. She's been married for two and a bit months. Like it was huge. It was the toughest thing I've ever had to do in my life. Because you were in a relationship with him for five years before. Just over four years, yeah.

So looking back now, what do you think happened? I've reflected on this so bloody much and I just, like, I don't want to say it was on him because it definitely wasn't. Like, it was both of us. We both fucked up a lot. There was a definite moment, I think, where we stopped caring and we stopped working at the relationship. You know, he had changed careers. I was just kind

of finding my feet with what I wanted to do. And I guess the struggle was real of like living in Sydney, one of the most expensive cities. I feel like there was a lot of pressure on us to buy a house and have a kid and do all these things. And the pressure certainly didn't help our relationship. It tore us apart. Was there any way of stopping that? I don't know. Could I have pushed through? Would I have been unhappy? Yeah, I definitely would have been unhappy. And would that have been worth it? God, no. My mum said to me when I was going through it, like, are you sure you're just going through something and you'll come out of it and you'll be happy again. I just knew within myself that this was the right thing to do. Like I just knew within my being, he's not my person. And yes,

we had this amazing wedding and you know, we've, we've got all of this goodness together. this amazing wedding and, you know, we've got all of this goodness together, it wasn't going to work and it was the toughest decision to say I'm calling it. Like we're breaking up. Like this is not going to work. I don't love you anymore in that way. Like I still, I think there's still a part of me that still has a love for him.

Yeah. Like he didn't cheat on me. He didn't do anything bad right of course it did get messy it got really horrible and there was a time where like I could hate him and like it was bad but we had four and a bit years together we shared so much and I don't think that that just goes he was my best friend for four and a bit years yeah I mean I'm a huge believer now in the idea that a relationship isn't a failure just because it ends the end of a relationship can be another chapter in that relationship in a way like it still forms you you still have those memories you still have the

influence that you had on each other and the love that you have for each other I cannot tell you how much I relate to that instinctive feeling that it's not right. And as women, I believe we've been trained out of listening to our instinct because it's so powerful. And there was a part of me that was questioning it constantly. Oh, totally. Do I know my own mind? Yes. Do I know my own mind?

Do I go with my gut feeling? Do I go with this instinct that is intrinsically in me? And you can't explain it. Yeah. It's something that I think as women we really do have. And men have it too, but I don't think they're in tune with it as much as what we are. I just knew. And there was no other way of explaining that.

It was so hard to explain it to, yeah, not only my family but my friends. I lost a few friends during my divorce and my breakup, which I classify in that same failure, I guess, as failed friendships. It's so sad, isn't it? So my story was that my ex and I had quite separate friendship groups. Okay. But obviously I got to know his friends and he got to know mine.

And when we split up, I had been such an obsessive people pleaser. And it's partly what had kept me in that marriage for so long. And when we got divorced, it was actually a really good crash course in having to live with the certain knowledge that there were people out there who were not pleased with me. Quite the opposite.

Who actively disliked me, didn't understand me, judged me for the decision that I had made. And I am at peace with having lost those friendships because I know the truth. because I know the truth. Suddenly I just was given this extraordinary insight into the power of knowing the truth. Like there's only two people who will know the truth of that relationship. I'm one of them. Yep.

And I am certain it was the right thing to do. How do you feel? Like, do you feel, does that speak to you? Honestly, that speaks to me so loudly. I'm like that yes girl. Everything there, wow. Like there's two people in that relationship and I think everyone on the outside, especially when it comes to friends, even family,

they like to think that they know what was going on. They only judge from what they saw. They don't see what happens behind closed doors. They don't really know what happens, you know, when you two go to bed at night and the conversation that you have and the dynamic there. So they can just only judge you from, because they are, they're judging.

And we do it. Like we all judge. We're humans. Like we do it. But I don't understand why we are so harsh and judgmental on people when they are going through something. And that's something that I had to learn to deal with a lot because I hold a lot of resentment towards those friends.

Like, yes, in hindsight, I'm so grateful that, yeah, they're not in my life now because I can see that they weren't good people for me to have in my life. But I hold so much resentment because they were friends that I'd had from when I was a kid and we went through so much together and I just thought you guys should know me better than that. Like you should know the Domenica that I am and why I'm making this decision.

Even if you don't know it and don't understand it, think of that person with generosity because that's what friendship is to me. It's thinking the best of your friend. If someone's thinking the best of you, they must also think she wouldn't be doing this unless she really viscerally needed to. Yeah. Which really hurt me because I just thought, well, they just think that I'm just like some fair weather wife and like, I don't care about anything. Like that's just how it made me feel, which came down on me like a ton of bricks more that I'd failed because I'm a shit person and I can't keep a marriage and I give up.

That's how I felt. I felt judged that I'd just given up. Yeah, wow. Like even just saying that out loud now, I feel. I felt judged that I'd just given up. Yeah, wow. Like even just saying that out loud now, I feel like I haven't thought about that in a really long time since it all happened. But being made to feel like you've just given up, which is not what it was at all, is fucking horrible. How long was it before you started maths after your divorce?

How long was it before you started maths after your divorce? It was just over a year before, like, all of the, I guess... The pre-production. The pre-production and all of that stuff started. And were you headhunted or did you apply? No, I applied. Oh, my gosh. That's so brave. Yeah, I know.

Honestly, my mum says that to me. She goes, Domenica, you're so brave. And I think that's the ultimate compliment. Yeah, I agree. Because it my mum says that to me. She goes, Domenica, you're so brave. And I think that's the ultimate compliment. Yeah, I agree. Because it was brave of me. I tell you what, like going into it knowing that there was going to be people that would judge me for having such a short marriage and now why is she going on Married at First Sight?

And the way that I looked at it was I've already fucking failed, you know. Why not put myself out there again? And before I applied for maths, I just started getting back into dating. I really took time for myself. It was COVID as well. And it was like, I just needed time for myself. Every day at three o'clock, I'd go down to the dog park and my friends and their dogs were there. And that was my healing. Like, honestly, the dog park healed me. And those conversations that we'd have over a beer at 3 o'clock because no one was working, it was all locked down,

and we'd just go there and we'd vent and the dogs would play. And I just thought to myself, why not? Go for it. Put yourself out there. What's the worst that could happen? But I love that because you were willing to get back into the arena. You still believed in love sufficiently that you were willing to do it. Yes.

And I really still do. Love is all around us and I'm quoting bloody love actually here. I had my airport moment like flying in, getting off at Heathrow, but love really is all around and, I mean, you see it everywhere. And I always will believe in love and love comes in all different forms. And I think, you know, just because, yeah, I failed at that relationship, at that marriage, at that love, doesn't mean that love's not going to come back into my life.

Have you heard from your ex or have you heard what he thinks of you on the show or anything like that? I've definitely heard a lot from him. He was not happy with me going on the show or anything like that? I've definitely heard a lot from him. He was not happy with me going on the show and he was not happy with the fact that, like, it would be uncovered who he was and what his career is and that kind of stuff. And I totally get it but also it's my life and, yeah, you're part of my story.

And this is how I try to describe it to him, like, yes, you're part of my story and this is how I try to describe it to him like yes you're part of my story but this is my life and yeah you might not agree with it and you might not think it's a good idea for me I'm gonna do it because it's my life and he wasn't happy at all but I think he's like come around to it and we've spoken recently because there's like gossip podcasts in Australia, this channel that just tries to just obliterate you. As soon as you go on reality TV, they just want to find dirt on you. And long story short, I had to get a cease and desist towards this person because they were threatening to come out with these lies of my ex and I. And so I, at that point, reached out to him and we had a really like in-depth conversation about it and that he was so sorry that I was going through this

and that he, you know, he's obviously supportive of whatever he can do to help me. So we really did come a long way and he's in a new relationship now and I'm so happy for him it was hard because he was saying that it was hard on her like his new partner because all this is you know related to him and it's hard and I'm like I know it's hard for you but also that this is my life and I need to you have to write your own story you can't allow someone else to write it for you and I did for so many years yeah me too I exactly the same and when it came to writing the book how to fail which companies this podcast I there's a chapter in there about how to fail at marriage yes and I had to make the active decision that I was going to tell my story and I was going to be okay with that and I was very careful not

to put in any elements that would have come from his perspective because I can't speak for him of course but this is absolutely what happened to me and these are my reflections because if I don't tell my story then someone else will do it for me and I don't want to be in that dynamic anymore exactly and I think we are so accustomed to just not feel our own feelings and think that it's like, oh, well, if I'm going to talk about my experience and my feelings, oh, well, there's actually another sign to that. So you shouldn't be telling your story.

Especially as women. What is it about society as women in particular, oh, you're salty if you talk about your ex or if you, say, talk about your experience of your breakup. Sorry? What? When did this become a thing? Yeah.

It just baffles me and more now than ever I'm really experiencing that because not only is there like all this personal scrutiny, it's like scrutiny from people that I've never met, like the public, people that have just watched the show and think that they know everything about my life and about my past. And, you know, judging me on what they've read in an article from a person that doesn't know me from a bar of soap that just writes lies. And it's just so crazy that we live in this world where it's just okay, that that can just be done. And also we live in a world where we hear other people's half-baked opinions all of the time

of us. Whereas a hundred years ago, the only way, for instance, to comment on a newspaper article was to write into the newspaper. That's already a barrier. Whereas now everything is so visible. newspaper that's already a barrier whereas now everything is so visible we're so hyper aware of everyone's take and reaction to us and I feel like people think that they are so entitled to have an opinion yeah on everything like sometimes you don't need to have an opinion on on this that's a really personal topic or subject I don't know why human nature, is it because of the world of social media? Is that what it is? People can hide behind a phone or a laptop or whatever, and they can have an opinion and they can get their frustration out with the world by having an opinion on a person that they don't even know. Yeah. And I think it's often as well, because seeing someone portrayed

in a certain light triggers a feeling that that person might have about themselves. And sometimes that can be a really uncomfortable feeling. Sometimes it can trigger thoughts of jealousy or why don't I have that? And instead of reflecting and analysing why that person is feeling that, they just lash out and blame the projection. I just think it's a lot of unhappy people. And that's the thing that I always have to come back to is that no one can ever know what pain someone is truly carrying. And always to lead with that foot and to lead with empathy, which if you're lucky enough to possess it, is a really, really important characteristic. which if you're lucky enough to possess it, it's a really, really important characteristic.

Truly. Like I, wow, that's a really interesting reflection on that whole thing. I think it's always about the other person. It's always about, if someone's trolling you, it's always about their unhappiness and nothing to do with you. You've triggered something in them. And it's just, that's actually really sad

that, you know, there are so many unhappy people out there, like unhappy with their lives, unhappy with their, whatever it may be that they feel that they need to do that to make themselves feel better. But in turn, they're not even making themselves feel better. Like maybe for that micro second when they post it and they get that like rush of dopamine or whatever it might be, but then they just go back to being unhappy. And it's not a victimless crime either because you're then left dealing with the emotional fallout because you're not a robot and you've got feelings and they're hurt.

Yes. So they're able to express their feeling about a certain thing, but you're the person behind the story, but you're a real person. That's why it's great to have a podcast and that's why I loved your recent episode on being trolled because I think it's also very important for the rest of us to hear the experience of being in the public eye and how that can have a really negative impact.

It's not all roses and champagne. No, it's definitely not. It's not all, you know, VIP parties and all this crap that people think that it is. It's not all roses and champagne. No, it's definitely not. It's not all, you know, VIP parties and all this crap that people think that it is. It's really not. It's days where I can't get out of bed and I'm really sad and I don't want to eat and I don't want to answer my, you know, calls from my friend or my mum because I don't want to talk about it.

Having to pick yourself up and deal with shit when you really don't want to. And I understand that. We do that every day. But when you're put on this, in this spotlight that you, like I don't have any training on this. Like I don't know what I'm doing. Like I don't know what to do when these articles come out about me

that are so incredibly false and defamatory and hurt my feelings so much and it's like what am I supposed to do? I just have to ride the wave? Like that's what everyone tells me. Oh, well, they'll forget about it. But it doesn't make it any better. I saw this thing on Twitter. I think it was yesterday.

And it was a female dance player. And she tweeted a comment that had been made about her appearance. And she said, I'm not going to lie. This really hurt me. Please don't tell me to ignore it. I just feel like calling it out. And again, I think we get told to ignore it, rise above it, like be the bigger person all of the time.

And actually, I really respected that woman for saying, no, this is how I felt because that's the bravest option. Yes. And actually being able to say, hang on, that made me feel really bad. Yeah. And that's not okay. But once again, as women in particular, we're told be the bigger person. No, walk away.

Turn the other cheek or whatever. Why is the onus on me? Yeah. Yeah. My mum's always told me, and God love her her like she always says ignore it even Ella says that you know ignore it don't listen to it but I've never been like that and just because now I'm in this spotlight and I've got such an engaged audience and people care about what I say which is so weird and on to me but I'm not going to change now just because I have this platform.

And I think I know even with my management, like I'm going through a whole change with them because I guess they thought that they could mould me into being what they think is a person in the media. Whereas my take on it is I'm going to be me because that's why people resonate with me is because I'm just unapologetically Domenica. And you're a truth teller. So you can't zip your mouth. Like you're not going to, you're going to say things as they are. And you're so right. You must never lose that because that's why we love you. And the other reason I love you is that you're so supportive to other women on social

media. I really noticed that. Thank you. It's important. I think we need to bring each other up. And I see it a lot as well on social media of other women bringing other women down. We have enough from men. We have enough barriers to cross in real life, whether that be with getting that job or whatever, anything. There are so many barriers that we have to, stigmas like, oh, well, I'm 29. I probably should check my eggs and see if I can have kids in the next few years. Or you're alone, you live alone, you don't have a man. Oh, how are you going to change that light globe? Like, leave me alone. Like, wow. Do you call it a light globe? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's the most beautiful thing. We call them light bulbs. A light globe. Oh my God. That's adorable. Love you Australia.

That actually brings us onto your second failure. Your second failure is the idea that you failed in some way in that you're not where you thought you would be at this stage of life. And I don't think we've ever had that failure before. And it's so resonant for so many people. You're 29. What did you think you'd have at this stage? Oh, look, at 29, I really thought that I'd be in a stable marriage or relationship, have a child.

I've got a dog. So I ticked that one off. A house and a mortgage that's incredibly difficult to pay off. All the stuff that I think we're told we're supposed to have. The Australian dream is a big thing back home. A house with a clothesline and a backyard that your kids can run around in. It's becoming increasingly further and further away reachable for a lot of people. I just remember like as a 20, 21-year-old thinking, oh, by 25,

you're going to be married and you'll have a good job and a dog and a backyard. And then as I got older and I had different relationships with many different men and figured out what I wanted out of life, you know, and then meeting my ex-husband and having an amazing relationship with him. But then obviously going through the divorce and failing at that. After all of that and then coming to terms with, oh shit, like I actually failed at my trajectory of womanhood and it's a really big thing like it scares the shit out of me that like I want to have children but like what if I don't find someone and

what if I can't you know what I mean and I you know I just finished Magpie your book and the trauma and the everything that the characters in the book went through, like the main protagonist, that scared me. I'm so sorry. It's probably the worst book for you to read when you're going through that. But let me reassure you. No, but it was so, it made me think. Yeah.

And that is a beautiful thing because it really made me be like, holy shit, you really don't know what that woman that just walked by you, what she's really going through. And in turn with me, like people don't know what I really want and what my fears are. Yeah. So it's so interesting hearing you talk because I definitely went through the same thing. And post-divorce, because I never thought I'd get divorced. Yeah. We all have. I mean, we never do do we no one ever does yeah but it really forced me to confront what I thought I had wanted for myself

and where that plan came from because I realized where that plan came from was social conditioning it was watching 1980s rom-coms yeah it was actually other people telling me what I should want, what goals I should have reached by a certain age. And the great liberation of being a woman in 2022 is that actually you can decide what you want and choose that future for yourself. And I think that's the joy and the benefit that so often we're taught to forget about. Actually, you are the master of your own ship, of your own fortune. You are rising. And if you want to be a mother, and this is something that people say to me all the time, and sometimes it's more helpful than others, you will find a way because there are so many ways available to us now. And you're still so young.

You're 29. I mean, I know you're an old soul. Yeah. No, I know. And I think that's why I feel as though my time is dwindling, but because I am such an old soul. But I know, I know I am still young and I know that I will have so many opportunities.

I know it will happen. Because I feel so maternal, weirdly, I know I don't have a child, but like, I just know that I'm such a nurturing person. And I love the idea of family. And I love the idea of nurturing and sitting around a dinner table and having that life. But I'm also aware now, having failed at a marriage and having failed at where I thought I'd be at 29 I've learnt to just be okay with if it doesn't happen yeah it's okay and if it doesn't happen the way that I thought it would happen that's also okay in fact it'll probably be better yeah yes you know what I mean and I say this to my my mum all the time because I come from an Italian family and having a child out of wedlock

and not being married is like it's such an old, outdated kind of mentality but it is what it is. And I say to my mum, I'm like, Mum, I'm okay if I get married again but if I'm with someone that I feel a connection with and I want to have a child with, I'm going to do it and I need you to be okay with that. Yeah. I mean, the reason I think it's all going to be fine for you,

better than fine, is because you're so open. You're open-hearted. You keep putting yourself back into the arena. And lots of people don't do that. Lots of people aren't willing to be vulnerable. And once they've been hurt terribly, they shut off their feelings. They guard themselves. I mean, my biggest fear with being open and vulnerable is because I am so much like that, the shit that I cop for being how I am, it scares me one day that I'll stop being like that.

And that's a real fear of mine. And that scares me truly because all of this pressure that's on me that, oh, you know, how you are, it's a bit, no, no, no, like you're a bit too emotional or you're a bit too this, this, this. I don't want to lose that because that's what makes me me. And when you get feedback like that, who's it from? Is it from people on social media? Social media, I've had it from people that have come in

and out of my life. I've had it from people that have come in and out of my life. I've had it from family members. A lot of the reason why I was triggered, I guess, in maths by that person saying that my voice is too loud and I'm too much and whatever, was that because it had been told to me by my grandfather and on my dad's side. I'd been conditioned to think that I was too boisterous and too much and whatever. It is, it's conditioning.

Like we are conditioned to think as women this is where we need to be at this age and if you're not, well, she's an old maid. And it's your fault. Yeah. I think it's your superpower. All of those things you've just mentioned, they're your superpower. They're what make you incredible. They're what means I'm going to be your friend for life, like for life now.

And you will always have a home with your truest friends. And the people who don't get it, you're not in the right environment. Yes. And I've learnt that. And that's why failure is such a beautiful thing because through that, I've learnt all of these amazing lessons and how to just be okay with being me. And being me is more than okay.

It's bloody brilliant and beautiful and it's so multifaceted and I wouldn't want to change who I am. It just scares me that there is so much pressure in this world that we live in that I would even think that I need to change to be a better person or to get ahead in life or to, you know, because I think as human beings, we are so conditioned to think that we need to be bigger, better. Always we need to be hustling. We need to like, why are you sitting down on the couch? Like, why are you, no, you need to be going. Go, like, what is with that?

It's so weird. And I'm a very energetic person, but I like to take a step back and reflect and see the world for what it is. And even in that, people are like, oh, why aren't you hustling? Like, why aren't you, you know, so there's, yeah. I think I've just been judged a lot in my life. That's probably affected me a lot more than I'd like to, I guess, admit. And through these failures I've reflected a lot

and that's the beauty in failing. Preach. Yeah, truly. Your third failure ties into everything you just touched upon which is everything that happened with married at first sight australia because by going on that platform you've made yourself more open for more criticism and more judgment and it's not that proportionally more people think that yeah it's just that the noise seems louder because there's more of it. Yes, totally.

Why did you choose this as a failure? I chose it as a failure because, look, deep down, obviously I would have loved to have found love and found a happily ever after. There's always got to be a winner and a loser, right, in whatever we do in life. Reality TV, there's always got to be that, whatever it may be. Love Island, I don't know, whatever.

There's always... Yeah, Big Brother. Big Brother, there's always a winner. You know, yes, we didn't win love or money, but I think it's a failure for me because deep down I know that I didn't come out of it with love and I think I really went into it wanting to find that. And in saying that it's a failure, I don't mean it as a negative.

I think this is the one that maybe I'm like most lighthearted with, it being a failure. Yeah. Maybe things didn't work out how I wanted them to and that's okay. So my expectations weren't met, Therefore, they are a failure. But I don't think it's, I don't know how to describe it. But you found love in different ways in terms of friendship. Yes.

And you also probably found things that you never expected on the other side of that, which is this huge career now. Yeah. Because you, in my mind and the minds of many many other people you are the star of that show like that's how you have emerged and you need to be reminded of that because I feel like you don't and I completely get it because I'd be exactly the same it's difficult for you to internalize that yes it is and to believe it do you feel like a fraud every day it's the weirdest feeling ever and I I talk about this with Ella all the time. And we,

it's sometimes we just need to like stand back and like pinch ourselves and be like, is this actually real? It's the weirdest feeling to be thrust into this world. But the fact that I was put on this platform and had the ability for millions and millions of people to get to know me for who I am and them resonate with me and actually like it or like, you know, like my personality and want to get to know me more is the biggest privilege and honour. And I love reading my DMs. I love talking with the people, you know, that follow me and about their lives and about what they're doing and how me using my voice and speaking up has given them the confidence to use their voice. That's the stuff that makes it all worth it. How did your

family react when you told them you were going on maths? I think my mum laughed in my face. She goes, Dominika, you're not fake enough to go on the show. I said, mum, I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult, really. Yeah, my brothers were worried because they know how I am and they know how brutal, I guess, reality TV, but also the public can be. My dad was actually really just positive about it. He was like, go for it, Dominic, this is what you want to do. And my parents have always been supportive of anything I've wanted to do.

And coming back to the divorce, the moment I said to them, I know that this is what I need to do, they were like, okay, we're going to make it happen and we're here standing beside you and we're going to walk with you through this journey. And that is such a beautiful thing and I know I'm so lucky because not everyone has that and has that relationship with their parents and their family that they have their back no matter what.

And I'm so incredibly blessed that they were supportive of me and still are to this day and held my hand through everything and all the drama and all the failures of my life. And, yeah, here I am today. You've always got a home to go to and an emotional home too. My final question, it's an extremely important one. I know that you've got a Vegemite tattoo. I do. Have you tried Marmite? I have not. What? Okay. So I thought I was going to the breakfast this morning at Shangri-La. They're going to have Marmite. They did not

have Marmite. They had Nutella there, but not Marmite. I'm never going to stay there. I know. Well, I've got to go to like a Tesco or something and get myself some Marmite. Just bathe yourself in it. Yeah. And I've just got to try it. Because I did bring Vegemite with me on my trip. I saw that you packed it. Because I can't go for like six weeks without having Vegemite. And how do you have it? Do you have it just on toast in the mornings? Yes. So butter, lots of butter. You have to toast your bread really well, like not burnt, but toasted. Lots of butter and then a good amount of Vegemite. You've got to start slow because I know people get a bit scared

but I go thick. Me too. Me too. I love it. I'm such a, like I'm genuinely, I'm a salt person, not a sweet person. Just give me the cheese and the salt and the Marmite. Yum. Marmite and cheese?

Have you? Yes, on a crumpet. Have you had a crumpet? Do Australians have crumpets? Yeah, we've got crumpets, yeah, but I have like peanut butter and honey on crumpets. Do you? Yeah, butter first.

You always have to have butter. Just butter and then butter on top of butter. Yes, always. Ditto. We're so similar. Oh, Domenica, this has been such a joy. How has it been for you coming on How To Fail? This has been a highlight of my life, truly.

And, you know, on so many levels because even reflecting and thinking about what my failures were going to be, that started the journey of me getting excited to come and meet you and chat on the podcast and, yeah, have this incredible conversation and be able to open up. And, yeah, I am an open, but I think there are so many layers to me and so many, I guess, doors to open in my history, in my past. And we all do. I think it's really important to sometimes just reflect on that and see how much you've grown. We've got these busy, crazy lives that we all lead and we forget to reflect on our growth

and how our failures have helped us. So I urge everyone to think about their failures and think about them in a positive light because it's the best exercise you'll do. It's the perfect note to end on. Thank you so, so much for being my forever hair inspo and for coming on How To Fail. Thank you so much for having me. And for coming on How To Fail. Thank you so much for having me. If you enjoyed this episode of How To Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe.

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