How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - S18 MIDSEASON BONUS! Captain Sandy from Below Deck on surviving addiction, pirates - and reality TV

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

CW: addictionLook, most of you know I love reality TV. And some of you might know that I love Below Deck so much I snuck in a mention of it in my latest novel. So when I was offered the chance to meet the legend that is Captain Sandra Yawn, of Below Deck Med fame, I jumped at it. (Luckily, not overboard).Even if you've never watched a single episode of Below Deck, Capt. Sandy's story is a riveting tale of resilience and courage. As a teenager, she struggled with alcoholism and almost ended up in jail. Instead, she started working on boats - and saved her own life in the process. She rose through the ranks of the maritime industry to become one of the only female superyacht captains in a field dominated by men.She joins me to talk about this, as well as failing to realise her early potential, growing up gay but not feeling able to live her truth, surviving both cancer and an attack by pirates, as well as what she's learned about herself from reality TV. And yes, I ask some niche Below Deck questions because WHY WOULDN'T I?(This chat was recorded before the new season started, btw, and obviously I'm slavishly watching each episode as soon as it drops).--The new season of Below Deck Mediterranean is available to watch on Hayu.--I'm going on tour! To AUSTRALIA, mate! You can now purchase tickets to see me live at Sydney Opera House on 26th February 2024 or the Arts Centre Melbourne on 28th February 2024.--How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted and produced by Elizabeth Day. To contact us, email [e-mail]--Social Media:Elizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpodCapt. Sandy @captainsandrayawnHayu @hayusocial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, the podcast that celebrates the things that haven't gone right. This is a podcast about learning from our mistakes and understanding that why we fail ultimately makes us stronger. Because learning how to fail in life actually means learning how to succeed better. I'm your host, author and

journalist Elizabeth Day, and every week I'll be asking a new interviewee what they've learned from failure. My guest today has an extraordinary story of resilience to share. She has survived addiction, cancer, pirates, and the unforgiving limelight of reality TV. Captain Sandy Yorn grew up in Florida, fell into alcoholism as a teen, and although she knew she was gay, for years didn't feel she could live her truth. As a 17-year-old, she was arrested for drink driving and a court ordered her to detox. By 25, she knew she wanted her life to be different. One of her first steady jobs was removing barnacles from the underside of a boat. She worked her way up through the maritime industry to become a super yacht captain.

Captain Sandy's achievements are all the more notable in a field dominated by men. In 2006, her courageous actions when her yacht caught fire and was surrounded by pirates in the Gulf of Aden earned her the Distinguished Crew Award from the International Superyacht Society. But arguably most of you will know her as one of the breakout stars of the hit Hey You reality TV show Below Deck Mediterranean. I, of course, am one of many devoted viewers. On screen, Captain Sandy has won a legion of fans for her unflappable calm under pressure and for her firm but compassionate leadership style. Where does this ability to retain her cool come from? I've seen the bottom, she says. So I have nothing to fear.

Captain Sandy, welcome to How to Fail. Thanks for having me. Wow. Thanks. Wow. I just, when you read that, it was like, what a life. What a life. That's how I felt when I was researching it.

Because obviously I know you on screen and I'm having a huge fangirl moment right here. But I didn't know an enormous amount about your backstory and you have overcome so much to be here in front of us today. I can't wait to ask you more about it, but do you ever get scared? Of course, absolutely. The difference is getting scared and being paralyzed with fear. The difference is getting scared and being paralyzed with fear. I'm not paralyzed anymore by, you know, fear because I know that there's always a solution. So at sea, if I'm in the middle of the ocean and I think, please, God, let the welds hold together. Let the engines keep running as all the eyeballs are on me because they're also scared.

That's when I have to like put the smile on and go, we'll fine we'll be just fine that's what I always say I'm gonna be fine I'm inside terrified because I know there is a solution and sometimes it's just continuing to move forward and having faith that the solution will present itself yes I remember once I was in this middle of a storm and I actually closed my eyes and was praying because I was so scared. And the chief steward at that moment put her hand on my shoulder and said, you're doing a great job. And I thought, thanks, dude. Like, I'm doing a great job. Thank you.

I'm going to continue doing this. And in that moment, I needed that touch to say you're doing a good job. Because a lot of times we go out in the ocean with lives on board and storms will arise out of nowhere and you just have to your training kicks in but there's that human element too that you're like terrified of course because it's such a it's such a unique combination because you're a ceo but you're also part of an extended family, I imagine it feels like, with your crew. And you're at sea, so you're contending with what nature throws your way. It's an enormous amount of pressure. Yes, it's the nature, the personalities,

the dependability that they have on you as a captain to keep them safe. No one really ever thinks about that when we go to sea. It's all fun and games until we're in rough seas and then you're like wow i'm actually responsible for all these people on board i have to stay focused on what i'm doing and that's easy to do when you're i can only imagine what it's like for a pilot when they're in turbulence it's kind of like the same thing the only difference is i can't get in my life raft yeah I'm not sure what we do in the sky yes do you get scared of airplane turbulence because I do yes yes the older I get the more fearful I am because I think the more you fly because you know wow I've been flying a lot

through my life and now I just Colorado I do not flying it Colorado is the worst airport to fly into because of all the turbulence. Okay. That's where you live? Yes. Okay. Were you scared of the idea of reality TV? When the producers of Below Deck Med came a-knocking, what was your reaction?

No. No way. Because I love my career. And a lot of my friends were like, don't do it. It'll ruin your career. My industry didn't like the show for many years. Now they have since transformed. Many people embrace it because we help a lot of people get into our industry. The TV show has really reached millions of people and says, hey, by the way, here's a really cool industry you can work in. and says, hey, by the way, here's a really cool industry you can work in.

And we need people. We're a deficit of 500,000 people today. Because when COVID hit, everybody bought boats. They spent that college fund on buying boats because they thought it was Armageddon. And you couldn't buy a boat. So yes, it's a very cool job. At the same time, it's a huge responsibility. Huge. For anyone who hasn't watched Below Deck Med, what are you doing with your time number one but to give a handy pricey of what the show is it's a

bit like for me it's like Downton Abbey on the sea where there's the people below deck are the ones doing all the hard work so your interior they're getting these incredible meals out. There's always an amazing chef, somewhat temperamental. And then the exterior are doing the docking and all of the grunt work. And then you are the captain and we follow your story, but we also follow the story of the clients who come and pay to have an amazing holiday. That's right. It chronicles the lives of yacht crew who reside and work aboard a super yacht during the charter season. Absolutely. So it is the upstairs, upstairs, downstairs, only because I've been doing a long time. But the reality is, is those fabulous meals you see that go out hot to the table, the crew never eat a hot meal. You know why? Because

they're working all the time. The chef gets the meal out on time for the crew, but by the time they go downstairs to eat, it's cold. They're so tired. They don't want to get up and microwave it. Yeah. It's not very much sleep. No. Not for any of us. I'm going to ask you some very like niche questions now, because this is the only opportunity I'll get. Do the crew that are being filmed always sleep on the boat? Do they ever have a night off the boat during charter season? No, they sleep on the boat every night. And you sleep on the boat every night? Yes.

Okay. We wake up together and we go to, not all together, but you know what I mean. It's just like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You're with each other 24-7. And how does it work with the production crew? Because it's a very confined area below deck. It must sound like you've got all these extra people that we never see as viewers who are filming the whole thing.

That's right. Where do they sleep? They sleep off the boat. Okay. So they have another boat that transports them to and from the hotel. But at the same time, the confined spaces, right? So the stairwells are very narrow. Like, they're running up those stairs with those cameras.

And you'll see the people carrying the mic box whenever the camera comes around or we're walking. And you start to feel bad because they have to duck really fast or they run out of the camera shot. And I go, oh, my gosh, why didn't I use the other door? Now I'm like messing with their movement. Do you have to consult with the production when you want to fire someone? I do, but I don't have to. But of course, they got to line other people up because we have to require a certain amount of people on board to be able to leave the dock.

It's called a safe manning document. So the insurance companies require that and the flag state requires that. I can't just drive a boat off the dock without a certain amount of crew with the certifications. Okay. I want to ask about some specific incidents. Namely, I want to ask about the chef Mila and those nachos. Now, she licked the steak too. Did you see that? Did she what, sorry? She licked the steak. I did not see that. She licked the steak too did you see that did she want so she licked the steak i did not see that she licked the steak yes and when it was in the microwave that she microwaved

and then she smelled it and licked it was she actually a chef i was she on her cv it said she was a chef i believe her i believe everyone yeah until they show me otherwise and I'm like why did I believe them who for you has been the best chief stew you've ever worked with on the tv show the best they all bring different elements right I wouldn't say the best Natasha was very polarizing watching it with chef Dave, but she was fine dining. Yes. She was really excellent. Like, I really admired her ability to serve and the kind of service that I would want as a super yacht captain.

They're all great, but they all bring different elements. So I don't really have one. I thought you did a great job of managing Frasier in the last season and you ended up, it felt like the two of you with such mutual respect. Yes. You know, when I come as a captain, I come with years of experience with former crew. Some of the best crew, I had a chief stewardess who served the queen of England. Like she's the finest, like apart from the TV show, she was Irish, Aoife, and she was my chief stew. And I actually had a client complain about her that she was too

formal. I go, that's a great complaint. I mean, it's okay. You know, so Fraser, I see that he didn't have a lot of experience. It was really about that. And when you don't know how to manage people, that's really a disservice to the client and to yourself. To learn management skills, you have to remain teachable. To think that you know everything about everything is really ego. You're a failure, right? So sometimes you just have to let them know, no, that's not how you do it. Maybe it's not, you're not here to make friends. You're here to do a job. And I always say this, when, if your main goal is to make friends with people, they will never respect you and your role because you're friends. And when you have to step into that management role, they're going to go, they're not going to respect you. And that's what Fraser needed to believe that they need to please others. And they start feeling fearful if they're not pleasing someone else. And if someone doesn't

like them, did you ever have that moment where you thought I'm going to leave that behind me now? No, I never lived my life like that because I came from addiction. So I didn't really care about anything, right? Because I was using. And then when I got clean, I did that self-work, right? That it takes to have that sense of groundness, like I'm grounded as a human being. When I started working in the industry, I worked for very, very wealthy people. I knew my main purpose was to serve. And I think if you remember that, then you will always stay grounded and you'll never lose sight of your goal. And that's rallying your people, encouraging them to remain teachable, to stay open. And that's really my job. That way we can serve others because we're there to serve. I work for a very wealthy man,

and this was a big lesson for me. And I remember one day in his office, he said, This was a big lesson for me. And I remember one day in his office, he said, I was there, big office, very, very successful guy. And he goes, on a phone call, I don't know, take 15 minutes and educate me. And that let me know that he doesn't even know everything. It's okay not to know everything, but also to say, take 15 minutes and educate me. That was something that really lasted in my mind throughout my years of growing in this industry. It's like, I don't have to know everything.

I can defer to my people and say, hey, take 15 minutes and educate me. It's a sign of strength, really, sometimes to say that you don't know. I want to go back to your life before you got into the maritime industry in a minute. But just finally on the below deck questions, have you ever imagined? So again, for anyone who hasn't watched it, the clients come and the primary will give a preference sheet and say their likes and dislikes and that they want an all white dressed theme party, an 80s disco and they can't eat gluten. What would be on your preference sheet oh my gosh I would say get the grill out okay everything on the grill yeah you know honestly I love grilled food and I would air all the toys in the water the slide I'm desperate to try that

slide I know that the deck crew always hate having to put it out but yeah so I would be in the water the whole time and then want to come out and eat grilled food. Okay. Grilled fish, grilled lobster, like I'm not a lobster. So grilled fish, grilled burgers, grilled steak, like yes, everything on the grill. Okay. You'd be a dream client. So tell us about your childhood because you're on the record of saying the maritime industry saved your life. And you mean that very genuinely, don't you? Yes, because I was this messed up kid on this merry-go-round of drugs and alcohol until I was 25. I got kicked out of school. I didn't have an education. Well, up until the 11th grade. And then I discovered the maritime industry. I answered an ad in paper. I started washing boats, cleaning the bottoms of boats. And I then had 14 boats that I washed every week and took

care of and changed the filters and things like that. And an owner offered me a full-time job. And that was my entrance into the maritime industry on board. And when that happened, he sent me to sea school. I'm forever grateful. It's the same man that said, take 15 minutes and educate me. For nine years, I worked for him. And that's why I'm forever grateful. It's the same man that said, take 15 minutes and educate me. For nine years, I worked for him. And that's why I'm here today. Because if it were not for the maritime industry and people like John Flynn giving me the opportunity, I would have never discovered this industry, which is incredible. And they just embrace you. It's very interesting when you think about your shoulder to shoulder with the

billionaires and the decision makers on the planet. And you're embraced by them because you're in an industry that cares. People say we take, we pollute, we consume, but we give back in so many ways. And the maritime industry is constantly innovating how to be more sustainable, lower emissions. They find ways because guess what? They have the money to do that, which is really great. You know, there are solar powered vessels out there. There are electric boats now and it's forever changing. And that's what I love about it. It's forever changing for the better. I imagine you also like the structure because it sounds to me that you didn't have a very structured youth.

Well, I did have a structured youth. I did. We were always taught to make our bed in the morning. I lived in a structured household, but my mother was an alcoholic. But at the same time, what I think was the learning ability for me in the maritime industry, it wasn't like in school where this is the way you learn. It was hands-on learning. You know what I mean? Like wipe on, wipe off, kind of like the karate kid. And then you were hands-on learning by being taught by someone else. And then the navigational part was in school learning, which many people like myself were teaching. So there were different ways to learn. And that's really what captured me was I was able to learn something that stayed in my mind

because it was something I was passionate about. I didn't know this industry existed until I started washing boats. And then I used to see these yacht crew come off and on boats. And I was like, wow, that's a real job. It's pretty fascinating, isn't it? Do you think you had to hit rock bottom in order to change? Oh, my goodness. Yes. I hit bottom so many times. I like Pink Sings a Song.

I have nothing to fear. I've already seen the bottom, so I have nothing to fear. And I'm like, yes, that's how I feel. I've seen the bottom. I have nothing to fear. And I'm like, yes, that's how I feel. I've seen the bottom. I have nothing to fear. And that's why on TV, you see me the way you see me is because I have everything to gain and nothing to lose because I've already lost it all. I know what it's like to be there. I don't ever want to go there again, but I survived. I found the way back. And now it's

like helping others along the way is really my purpose in this life, is to work in this incredible industry and help others along the way. So how do you feel about failure as a concept? I think failure is a success because if you learn from it, I mean, how many great minds have said that? I always take something that I've tried that didn't work out to go, wow, I'm just going to try it a different way. It's just you turn left instead of right or go straight. Data acquisition. Yes. Talk to me a little about sexism in the industry, because you are notably a success story as a woman in a very

male dominated arena. And I wonder if you had any experiences that really highlighted that sexism, like what was the most sexist experience you ever had on the way out? Not being hired because I was a woman. And would they say that to you or you just could tell? No, I was told that. The manager told me, the owner said, it's, I'm not hiring her. She's a woman. And I was like, wow, wow. Sorry for him. Because I don't know. I think women make great leaders. And you know what actually did me a favor? Because then I went to work for someone who was an awesome human being. Jim Herbert worked for him for many years and great guy, founder of a bank. And he was so wonderful to work for. And if the guy didn't

say no to me, I would have never found that job. So sometimes door closes and one opens, but it does exist. I have to say that more men in the maritime industry are very open to women. The women honestly raise their children, so they don't want to leave home. It's easier for a guy to leave his kids at home. I don't know why, but it is. Men go to sea, women don't. But that's a choice for a guy to leave his kids at home. I don't know why, but it is. Men go to sea, women don't. But that's a choice for a woman.

And I encourage women, if you're not ready to start a family and you want a life at sea, it doesn't even have to be your whole life, but it could be six years of your life or 10 years, whatever you choose. It's possible. It's possible. You don't have biological children yourself, do you?

I don't. No, I don't. Do you see your crew in some ways? It's possible. You don't have biological children yourself, do you? I don't. No, I don't. Do you see your crew in some ways? Do you feel like you're a paternal, a parental figure? I do for every niece and nephew I have. Yeah. You know, every niece and nephew I have in my life, I see that. I'm there.

I'm the kid in the family. Like, if you had a bunch of teenagers here and five- and six olds over here, I'm at the five and six year old table. I love telling stories. Yeah. Yes. Before we get on to your failures, I just want to say congratulations. Because you have just got engaged. Yes. Will you tell us the proposal story?

Well, yes. Thank you. Yes, of course. So in June of 2018, Leah texted me through a social media outlet. In October of the same year, I decided to read my messages. And there were a lot of them. And hers stuck out to me because she wrote many blessings. And I thought, wow, I clicked on it. And at the time I was doing an I Believe tour in the U.S. to inspire people to believe in themselves. And she sang.

And I was like, I heard that beautiful voice. I thought, my gosh, I have to meet her. I want her to sing. We met in L.A. a month later. And it was love at first sight. Oh. Yes. And so you proposed recently.

Yes. Did you get down on one knee? Yes, I did. So when we were talking about it, I go, do I have to get on a knee? I did so when we were talking about I go do I have to get on a knee my knee she goes yes I go why don't you ask me she's like that's never going to happen and I was like okay my husband proposed to me did not get on one knee and I was I said yes because I was thrilled and then I started crying I was like but you need to get on one knee so I said yes then he got on one knee and he did it again I love it yeah these things are important yes I guess I'm like okay okay I'll do

it like because I love Leah she's such a wonderful she taught me the meaning of grace that word what it truly means because she's so graceful what does it mean to you I taught her the meaning of do over okay I'm like can I have a do over yeah and then she gives me the grace to you? I taught her the meaning of do-over. Okay. Because I'm like, can I have a do-over? Yeah. And then she gives me the grace to have the do-over. So the grace to me is like when you make a mistake, you don't have to, you know, shove it down their throat. You just give them grace.

Like if someone's grumpy and there's a, we don't always know their backstory, just give them some grace. And that's really it for me. Beautiful. Well, congratulations again. Let's get on to your failures your first failure in your words I forgot to put my feet down once on my motorcycle at a stoplight I did what happened it fell over on me but it was a serious accident right no actually that wasn't

so when I forgot to put my feet down I was with other people on motorcycles and it fell on me and they were just like looking at me. I'm like, get the bike off of me. It was at a major stoplight, like where there were lots of cars, like six lanes on each side. And it was just a moment of embarrassment. Yes. I forgot to put my feet down. I guarantee you, your listeners, there's someone out there that forgot to put their feet down. Because you're an experienced motorbike rider. Yes. So that just sometimes happens. Sometimes you're just like caught up in the music or whatever you're listening to or the nature and you stop your bike and you forget to put your feet down.

I love it that you've just chosen a pure out and out moment of humiliation for your first failure, where it's about you doing something stupid that you would never normally do but if we go back a few years you did have a serious motorcycle accident when you were 49 yeah and it saved my life so I was headed to a boat show and a car pulled in front of me and I t-boned the car I ended up in the hospital with a shattered broken pelvis so they scanned that area and they found I ended up in the hospital with a shattered, broken pelvis. So they scanned that area and they found I had cancer in my kidney. So that accident actually saved my life. Wow. Was there rehab from that accident?

Honestly, I healed very quickly because I don't drink alcohol. And I'm telling you, if you drink a lot of water, I took all the supplements that you're supposed to take for bone healing. And I healed very quickly. In fact, that was in February. In March, I had my kidney surgery. In May, I was back on a motorcycle. Wow. So your treatment for cancer was that on?

Oh, my treatment for cancer was the surgery was removed. Okay. I mean, they removed the cancer. I didn't need chemo or anything what do you think those months taught you about life that you have one life to live and don't be afraid just go for it and that's what I'm doing but along my journey is it about taking taking taking it taking? It's about giving. Sure, you're a very impressive person. Do you think that everything happens? Because I know you have a Christian faith.

Yes. Well, I'm not Christian. Okay. I love God. I think it's, so the 12-step program I am, I attend, has the 12 steps. And through those 12 steps, I formed a relationship with a higher power, which I choose to call God. And I just have that. It's a spirituality. Like I believe in that. And to me, it's saved my life so many times. And people always wonder why I'm so happy. I'm like, because I believe. Do you tend to believe then that everything happens for a reason,

even the difficult things will happen for a reason that we might then ultimately learn from? Yes, I do. And I also think there's signs. So we always learn how to build character. So how to build character is sometimes following the speed limit. So you learn to follow the speed limit. Be conscious. It makes you more conscious and aware of your actions.

Other focus. So it's all those things that really make a difference. When I was using, it was always self-centered, always about me. Oh, poor me, poor me, poor me another drink. And now that I'm sober, it's other focused. How can I help? How can I serve? Because when you serve others, you're out of yourself and you're not thinking about poor me, poor me. And the next thing you know, you feel good about yourself because you're actually giving. Part of the 12-step program, I believe, is apologizing to people and writing letters.

Did you have to do a lot of that? Oh, I did. You know, in fact, I had a sponsor. I bought some furniture that I wasn't going to pay back. And she made me go sit in that furniture store in front of that manager and say, sir, I can pay you $5 a week, but I had to make restitution. So I paid $5 a week for three years and I paid off that furniture. And it was something that I

felt so freeing. And that was years ago when I didn't make a lot of money. All I could afford was $5 a week and I paid that furniture off. And to me, it's like those acts of being accountable for your actions is the part that people don't understand. That's the freedom and forgiveness. True forgiveness is freedom. Talk about building character for us. Yes, it wasn't me. I had a lot of help.

Like I didn't come up with this on my own. It was those 12 steps. When you're at sea how do you attend meetings do you do it over online online now yes but before the internet was called loners anonymous a loners anonymous and it was actually through chatting like on text right it was fascinating and then wherever I would go I would to meetings. Even if it wasn't in my language, I knew they were talking about how to stay clean and help others. Because it's a choice you make every single day, isn't it? It's a choice you make every day.

I live in Colorado. Everybody's on edibles. You know, it's like the majority of them. I know that that will lead me. Why would I take the risk? Why would I want to go back to that old life? I love how I feel. Every day I wake up, I honestly, this is how I wake up.

I open the curtains. The curtains are open. I just say, good morning, world. Like, I feel that way. Ask Leah. And then I'll do this chant. I feel good. I feel fine.

I feel like this all the time. And I say it often. When we both had COVID, she's like, if you sing that song one more time, because I don't feel good. And I was like psyching myself out. Like I don't want to be sick. So I feel good. I feel fine. And I also think it helps that self-talk. And I use this technique where if I'm trying to go to sleep and I have all these thoughts running through my head, I go, peace, calm. and i breathe in peace calm next thing you know i'm asleep it's like mantras yes very powerful totally right yeah i guarantee you

if you say i feel good i feel fine i feel like this all the time you're gonna start feeling good okay and i use music as a big proponent to my happy yeah well you look incredible as well like you can see the happiness sort of radiating your eyes are sparkling you look you know like 30 years younger than you actually are so it clearly works it clearly works hi i'm matt lewis historian and host of a new chapter of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit. Join me and world leading experts every week as we explore the incredible real life history that inspires the locations, the characters and the storylines of Assassin's Creed. Listen and follow Echoes of History,

a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. Peyton, it's happening. We're finally being recognized for being very online. It's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo.

All the time. So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions, if you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second, then join me, Hunter Harris, and me, Peyton Dix, the host of Wondery's newest podcast,

Let Me Say This. As beacons of truth and connoisseurs of mess, we are scouring the depths of the internet so you don't have to. We're obviously talking about the biggest gossip

and celebrity news. Like, it's not a question of if Drake got his body done but when. You are so messy for that but we will be giving you the b-sides don't you worry the deep cuts the niche the obscure. Like that one photo of Nicole Kidman after she finalized her divorce from Tom Cruise. Mother a mother to many. Follow Let Me Say This on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new episodes on YouTube or listen to Let Me Say This ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new episodes on YouTube or listen to Let Me Say This ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Your second failure is that you failed to realize your potential at an early age. Yes.

at an early age? Yes. If I would have paid attention when I was 13, when I picked up my first drug, I would have lived a very different life between 13 and 25. Thankfully, I never hurt anyone else. That's the beautiful thing because I was a driver while using alcohol. Not great. And well, it was at 25 when I finally got it. So yes, can you imagine what I could have done between those ages, like 13 to 25 in my life? I probably would have finished school, but I would have never discovered the maritime industry. So I don't think that I would go back and change it because it defined who I am today. I never thought I'd live to see 21.

Wow. 13, very young. Yes. What was your first drug? Pot. Even though they say it's not the gateway drug, it was for me. And I'll never forget that my goal as we used to sit around and get high was to, I thought I would only live to 21 and I was going to move to Key West, live in flip-flops and a tank top and shorts for the rest of my life in smoke pot. That's my goal at 13 or 14. Not a great goal. What were you like at 13 apart from having this not great goal? What was your personality? Fun, just drifting and seeking. I just wanted to change the way I felt. I wasn't sure why. I didn't have a bad childhood. You know, I wasn't sure why. But addiction runs in my family. It wasn't until I got clean that I learned the why,

because it's just, it is a disease. You know, so I have that. Is your mother still alive? No, she passed away from alcoholism. I'm so sorry. Yes, many years ago. Thank you. How old were you? alcoholism. I'm so sorry. Yes. Many years ago. Thank you. How old were you? I was in Spain, actually at a boat show on a boat. I was, I was 35. Okay. It's probably a stupid question, but I wonder if it's a difficult thing when the person who's meant to look after you and

you're meant to rely on so much is also the person who I imagine lets you down and leaves you with this legacy. Yes. You know, something happens psychologically where you start taking care of your parent. And in those moments you think it's just your parent. Like you don't really analyze it. You just do it because they're struggling. And my mom was a great mom in the early years, but she suffered. I forgive her. She didn't know. Her father had it, you know, like, and her brother.

So addiction runs rampant in my family. I'm one of the lucky ones. Do you have brothers and sisters? Oh, yes. And I have nieces that have passed away from addiction. I have a nephew that passed away from addiction. So it runs rampant in my family. Sandy, I'm so sorry. What pain your family has gone through? Exactly. Yes. And so I think being on TV was meant to be for so many other reasons than just entertainment.

What advice, if any, would you give a listener who is hearing you speak right now and either is struggling with addiction themselves or they have someone in their family and they don't know how to reach them through the addiction? I suggest, first and foremost, you're not alone. I'll say that, you're not alone. I suggest calling for outside help. So interventions are needed in families. And that's where you get your family members, you get someone from the 12-step program, and you get someone from the treatment center to all come and sit around that one family member and make sure they're clean at the time and then have that conversation. And you can change their life.

And if it isn't that way, then call for help. Have them placed in treatment on an order from a judge. Go to a judge. They will write an order. They will have them picked up, not taken to jail, but taken to a treatment center. That's possible. So call the whatever the equivalent is to a helpline and ask for help. Is that what happened with you?

So many times I had people try to intervene. But yes. And once I was taken to treatment, I knew there was another way to live. I just didn't. I wasn't ready. You know, I was that person. At 17, I was another way to live I just didn't I wasn't ready you know I had I was that person at 17 I was court ordered to treatment and at 25 I finally got it okay and the people who were doing the interventions with friends family family okay always my family yes

they tried over and over and you dropped out of high school at what age? I didn't drop out. They kicked me out. Oh, they kicked you out. Let's get out of that place. Did you mind? Because I never give up. No. Oh, yeah. Did you mind or were you so? No, I was so in my addiction. I didn't.

I was working already and washing boats. You know, I'd started doing that. And I don't know. You're like just you're survivors. Like you become a survivor. I was a survivor. know, I'd started doing that. And I don't know, you're like, just you're survivors, like you become a survivor. I was a survivor. Now I don't have to survive. I'm living. That's the difference between addiction is surviving. When you put down the drug or alcohol or whatever it is gambling, then you become a person of mainstream society and you live. You're not just surviving,

which is a beautiful thing. Have you ever suffered from imposter syndrome? No. What is that? That is the best answer I've ever had to that question. That is something where you feel that you don't deserve your space. So often if someone is, if they left school early or they didn't go to university or they're in a very high powered career, they might feel like everyone else knows the rules. I'm a fraud.

I'm about to get found out. That's what imposter syndrome is. Oh, no, I don't. You know why? Never. Here's why. Because when I was using, I never felt worthy to look at the sky. After I got clean, I could actually look up at the sky.

It was such an odd thing. I never really thought about it, and I could never up at the sky. It was such an odd thing. I never really thought about it. And I could never look at the sky. I never felt worthy. Once I became worthy because I was doing the next right thing in my life, I never thought I didn't belong here. Because I know the work I did to get to where I am. As long as you do the work, who cares what other people think? And then you've got to start changing that thinking.

And that's that, to me, those 12 steps. That is so profound and poignant that you didn't feel worthy to look at the sky. And now you do. Yes. Can I ask if any of that shame was wrapped up wrongly with your sexual identity? I think the big part of the reason I started using was because I couldn't accept the sexuality because I came from a very homophobic family and I didn't feel like I could express myself, nor did I know I could, you know, it was weird. I can't explain it, but it wasn't

until after I got sober that I could, I didn't, it didn't matter because I knew I was living a life with purpose and I was doing the next right thing. And you always know in your gut, I always say this to Leah, if it feels right, it is right. If it feels wrong, it is wrong. If you feel afraid, then assess that and think, okay, sometimes fear can be two things. It can be don't open that door or open that door. Like, you know, and those are the risk. But I go with how I feel. Do you feel accepted now? Oh, yes. And then for those who don't, I'm sorry for them. Because I always said to Leah, if you're okay with who you are, others are more comfortable around you. If you're uncomfortable with you, they're going to be uncomfortable around you.

So you create your environment. And it sounds like the maritime industry isn't accepting, albeit sexist in the same way that the rest of society is but it feels like maybe it's the kind of industry that attracts people who have lived alternative kind of lives i tell people i think if they put the maritime industry in a whole different psychological bucket we'd have our own diagnosis because we are from all parts of the world, from different walks of life, different nationalities, and we all end up in the same boat together. And you go, wow. And we leave our homes, our families, and we create a family. It's interesting. You know, when you rise above and you see how it works, you're going, wow, are they people who are drifters that end up together and find a purpose? Or did they, it's interesting.

I still am baffled. Yeah, literally in the same boat. So who do you keep in touch with from Below Deck Med? Do you have any regular WhatsApps? Yes, Bugsy, of course, Max from my first season. Oh, Bugsy, I love Bugsy. Yes, my first season people are really, because it was my first season.

So Max was texting me earlier, Bugsy's doing something for me for the live show. And I keep in touch with Kate Chastain, although she's not from my season. Ben, Chef Ben, Chef Dave, the chef that you're getting ready to see on the season. Is this chef coming up a good chef? He's a great chef. Okay, good. Thank goodness.

It's always so stressful when they're not very good. He's so cute. Jack. He's Jack. And and we loved him i always heard laughter come out of the galley like when you hear that i'm sure there's some drama there i just don't know about natalia kyle kyle yeah sorry this will mean nothing to someone who doesn't watch below deck um hayley from below deck 10 and love hayley british of course z and courtney like yes courtney also another brit yeah malia malia of course you're good friends aren't you yeah you've been very inspirational to her yes also as a woman in the industry is she a captain yet because that's her she has her she could be a captain absolutely she's just taking the long haul which is on big boats i i've offered her

many jobs on smaller boats to me i think small boats are the way to learn because you learn you do every job and you learn every aspect malia's got her sights on the big ones so okay it takes a little longer that way let's get on to your third and final failure, which is allowing the anchor to get the best of you. It always happens. Really? Always. For the uninitiated among us, just tell us about the anchor process. So when you drop an anchor, you need to set the anchor where if the wind starts to blow 30 or 40 knots that you won't drag anchor.

Because usually we're anchored in anchorages around other boats because we all go to the same places. Let's use Capri. So we anchor off Marina Piccolo on the other side. Everybody's like, you could touch the boat. We're so close or can. So when the wind blows, you want to make sure your anchor holds. Oftentimes it doesn't. I don't know why. Maybe it's sand, whatever. So you're resetting your anchor. The other component is sometimes they get tangled. So when you have a lot of wind, you drop two anchors, but when the wind drops, the boat spins on anchor. It just does. That's how it works. And then it starts to tangle. Sometimes you drop your anchor and it says anchor here,

but someone has dragged a town cable over to your position next thing you know you're lifting up the town cable okay for the village of san jorpe you're like put it back in the water because that's a big fine so you got to figure out a way to get the town cable off your anchor what's the town cable is that the town cable is the electricity to the town in the water yes of course they run the cables in the water i I guess you'd have to, wouldn't you? It just seems counterintuitive. But they're wrapped in lots of... Yes. So you pick it up. I'm a terrible scientist.

I have no clue. They run cables in the water. Okay. Yes. So it's a tattered cable. Yeah, you need to be careful of that. Down in the water, put it back, put it back. And then the anchor tangles.

It can take you hours, as you can see. Yes. It took nine hours yeah to untangle that chain and if you can't enter a port without your anchors right so you can't leave two anchors you have to enter the port with at least one anchor it's always something with the anchor or you can't haul the anchor because the windlass isn't working anymore the thing that actually hauls it out of the water you're like then you try to tie a line on it put it on the other windlass isn't working anymore. The thing that actually hauls it out of the water. You're like, then you try to tie a line on it, put it on the other windlass and the line breaks. You're like, okay, we're leaving the anchor.

There should be a better system. Why is there not a better system? Well, there is, but we anchor so often the equipment is bound to fail. So on an anchor, there's a claw that holds the chain when you're at sea. So it's literally a claw. If they don't tighten the top part of the windlass, which spins, which is called the clutch and the brake, tight, that can free flow.

Right. If the claw isn't on, it free flows all the way out. I'm crossing in Croatia from Var or Viz to mainland. All of a sudden, I hear what I sound like I run over a boat. It was like the loudest noise, the chain, the entire chain came out and our anchor was, and I was doing 17 knots and I'm thinking, oh my God, is that going to get the props? And, and then the next thing you know, the crew members like it was the anchor and they had to release it. And then the next thing you know, the crew member's like, it was the anchor.

And they had to release it. So we left it in the sea. And they're very expensive. How expensive? $50,000, $70,000. So then do you get a new anchor? I get a new anchor. So this was one of my seasons.

Okay, so I left an anchor in Croatia. We go to Antibes. It was a trip from hell. We go to Antibes, drop the anchor. I send the crew under the boat to check the running gear. I'm like, how's this? How's that? He goes, I got some good news and some bad news.

So he comes up. He goes, well, the bow thrusters are still there, but we don't have an anchor. So I said, we are anchorless? We were actually, the only thing holding us was the chain. I swear someone stole our anchor. I go, how did the anchor come off so we left our anchor now we don't have an anchor and now i gotta go into a port where you need an anchor so we have a spare anchor so we had to take the spare anchor out it was like a spare tire you need to get on

the phone to the provisioner and say i need your anchor we had to go to the shipyard and get hauled out of the water and have it all checked. Is this something that affects every captain? Or do you think it's just specifically you? Every captain goes through this. Huh. Because it's mechanical. Yeah.

The two things you use the most are the engines and the anchors. Yes. They're bound to fail. And Below Deck Sailing Yacht had a really tough season because their engine was failing and Colin had to sort it out with like sticky tape, basically, didn't he? Yes. So when we see those scenes in Below Deck and it's coming to a docking and there's dramatic music and we haven't got the fenders out and there's a clunking sound. And then the episode ends and there's a big cliffhanger and then it opens the next episode.

That genuinely happens and it's genuinely scary and stressful. it's not just made for tv no i mean but they know when to cut yes for a commercial or for the next season this season there's a few of those they're like that's a commercial okay that's the next episode what's the most stressful situation you've ever been in on a yacht? I would just say the fire in the Red Sea. Yes, tell us about that. When you are transiting the Red Sea and other parts of pirate infested waters, you're very aware of what's going on around you. You're hyper aware. When you have a fire and then you're drifting, the threat of pirates coming to you, you know they're on their way because they heard you call for help who's going to arrive first help or the pirate like we were rescued by a warship

thankfully that warship went like 60 something knots an hour and was this a super yacht that you were captaining which has you know had clients on we didn't have clients we had crew i had 13 and it was mechanical. And then we tried to repair it. And then hydraulic oil ignites at a certain temperature. And that's what happened. It was like a big boom out the side of our boat. And I had a crew member try to jump overboard. I had a British chief stew.

He was the best personality, Patricia Elliott, awesome human being. And she was always laughing. So I said, the one person who tried to jump overboard, awesome human being. And she was always laughing. So I said, the one person who tried to jump overboard, I grabbed her. And I said, Patricia, plot our position. Because I teach everyone how to plot, every crew member. So she did. And she goes, Sandy, can you believe we're floating in shock shoal? And I was like, I looked at the crew member that's trying to jump overboard.

I go, aren't you glad you didn't jump overboard? Shark shoal. And I was like, I looked at the crew member that's trying to jump overboard. I go, aren't you glad you didn't jump overboard? Shark shoal, like bunch of sharks, like underneath our boat. So interesting. And you find a humor inside the tragedy, but at the same time as a captain, you're constantly thinking about who's going to arrive first, the warship or the pirates. So the warship rescued us how long were you drifting about four hours okay it took them to get to us but you could see the the other boats you knew they were pirates you could see through the binoculars and i had security on the boat who was getting intel from his shore support and he kept telling me that i go why are you i don't need to hear this when they're off the bow of the boat, tell me the pirates are here.

But until then, I don't need to know they're coming. Because it was already stressful enough. And you were having to stay calm for the crew, visibly calm. Yes, and we were laughing. I mean, if you don't cry, you're going to laugh. But we were all laughing. And then by the time we got towed into Hadidah, Yemen, was in a civil war at the time. You're like, great.

Now I'm like stationed in the place where, I don't know. So we had rocket launchers next to our boat protecting us and security. And we were there 13 days. Wow. Is that the closest you think that you've ever come to death? Yes. Or hostage, being held hostage. Yes.

I mean, I've had scary moments at sea. You hope the boat still floats. I've been hit by a water spout that knocked the boat on its side. Those moments, you're like, please come up. Because every boat has a roll period from the time it's center over and back up. Right. So you know the roll period. Is it eight seconds, is it 10 seconds? So you start counting 1001, 1002 as a captain, 1003. And when you get close to your roll period, if it goes past those seconds, it's not coming back up unless a wave picks it back up. So you've been in that kind of situation? Yes. I've counted many times. Have you watched the movie Titanic? Yes. Do you like it? But you know, the one that I think was more scary was Perfect Storm. Oh, terrifying.

Yeah, but you know I ran a boat called White Star. Did you? Have you seen Captain? That was the boat that caught on fire was called White Star in the Red Sea. Have you seen Captain Phillips? Yes. That movie was awesome. I had a, when I watched Captain Phillips, I actually had.

PTSD. Yes, I had a, when I watched Captain Phillips, I actually had PTSD. Yes. I started shaking. I remember my friend Tammy goes, are you okay? And I was like, I'm not. It was strange because I had never sought therapy after that or counseling. And the one thing that I regret that I didn't do was I didn't check on my crew after we went through that experience. I didn't call them and say, how went through that experience. I didn't call them and say, how are you? Nor did the management company call me and say, how are you? I think it was a big learning for all of us. Yeah. This is probably a really intrusive question and you don't have to answer, but do you have therapy now? I go to therapy as often as possible. Great. Are you kidding me? Because you you seem very sorted but it must be a lot

of pressure to carry yes you know honestly I call my therapist when I'm in a situation where I'm struggling I have a lot of couch time through the years of my 34 years of sobriety I don't have all the answers so yes I seek outside help when when needed one of the things that I'm fascinated in asking you about is about the nature of reality television. I am a huge reality TV fan. I think that it teaches us so much about what it is to be human, and that's as a viewer. But I'm very intrigued, as someone who's in it,

you obviously are aware who you are, Sandra Yawn. But then there's also Captain Sandy, who is who we see as a viewer and who production want to protect. How does that affect your state of mind about who you are? I think the question is my relationships. Okay. Okay, because sometimes my family will say, you're not the captain here. Right? So how do I turn it off?

Because when you're in charge, I'm a different person. I can't explain it, but I don't, I'm not aware of it. Leah will say to me, don't be my captain, be my Sandy. And then she goes, that's my Sandy. How do you transition from captain to Sant, like being me? So I hope I'm doing it now. I won't know because I'm just so used to living that role as an authority figure that I need to be able to know that I don't have to be in charge or everything doesn't have to be perfect.

That's my struggle. Do you watch yourself back? Yes. What's that experience like? I wish I was kinder. I wish I paused longer. I wish I would have approached that person differently. And I think now this season I want to be more patient.

Maybe I should have fired that person earlier and trusted the chief, you know, like I should have trusted the chief stew more. Yeah. But I'm a person who doesn't give up on people. And sometimes you just have to say, okay, I have to let you go. Because if someone gave up on me, I don't know if I would be where I am today. So I use that. And I think when you invest in people like that, they don't want to let you down. You inspire them to want to change because they want to do better because they see how much you care and how much you're invested in them. And so looking back, I just think maybe I should have fired them earlier. But it's like you're learning from your failures. It's basically the entire premise of this podcast. And if I might, just before we draw this to a close,

I think you're very good at spotting when someone on the team is spreading a bad atmosphere. And it's not necessarily that they are doing anything that is so obviously wrong, but there's a toxicity there that is so negative for the rest of the team. And I've noticed you do that a couple of times and you always suss it out and you get rid of the person that I know I would be deeply intimidated and scared by and find really

difficult to handle. I think you're very good at that, at sussing people out, sussing their energies out. Yeah. Cause I think if you're paying attention, cause I do, although I'm not always in the space, I hear the boats. I wish they were soundproof because some things I don't want to hear, but the reality is I hear, and I see the reactions of other crew. And I know as a leader that I have to pay attention. And when you see that, cause it does affect the atmosphere on the boat. You want people to have that joy in what they do to serve others. And if you have that one person, you just have to let them go.

If I were to apply for a job on your crew, what position would you put me in? Are you kidding me? You'd be the, what is that role called? Not you, Stewie. You would be the person who greets everybody and makes sure they're having a great time i love you that's the facts i'll be the anchor wrangler as well i love that the anchor wrangler that's a

great position i think we need a you need someone yes i'm happy to come next season i love that anchor wrangler i love that okay you can have And finally, I've loved this chat so much. Thank you for making time. Do you like being Captain Sandy? Do you like it when people recognize you on the street? Yes. Well, let me twofold. Okay. In the beginning, it was fun. It was cool. Now it's, I feel when people are respectful in their approach to me, yes. But some people are just not respectful. Reality TV is very different than from a person acting. When you're an actor, they know you're acting.

When you're on reality TV, they feel like they've known you for years. They come in for the hug. They come in for the kiss. They just come in. There are no boundaries. It's like you've been friends for years. It's those moments where I'm just like, slow down. I had a guy chase me on the street the other day. It freaked me out. I'm like, he goes, are you that? You know, and he chased me and I just said, yes, hi. You know,

cause I didn't know because sometimes you think what's going to happen. Cause it can be quite scary at the same time. I, I always want to be graceful and gracious and engage. But it's all about the approach. So yes, but also slow the roll when you're coming towards me. Yes, exactly. You don't actually know Sandy from way back when. You have shown us all the power of grace today. Thank you so, so much for coming on my podcast.

And I will see you for the anchor angling next season. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You're awesome. If you enjoyed this episode of How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently it helps other people know that we exist.