How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Sabrina Dhowre Elba… I thought ‘this is how I’m going to die’

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Spoiler alert: I’m low-key obsessed with this woman. Sabrina Dhowre Elba is a UN Goodwill ambassador, a skincare maven, an actor, producer and all-round good egg. She is, then, *so* much more than some bloke’s wife, but given that the bloke in question is Idris Elba, she’s incredibly understanding when asked questions about how she copes with the attention. She joins me to talk about the boxes we put women in, her failure to work a regular nine-to-five, her struggles with confidence and physical health and her rampant sugar addiction (no, really). We also talk about her feelings of failure around not yet having children, despite familial and societal pressure. It was a really fascinating conversation and I’m so grateful to her for opening up about something that I’m sure many listeners will relate to. As always, I’d LOVE to hear about your failures, no matter how profound, minor or funny they might be. Every week, my guest and I will choose a selection to read out and answer on our special subscription offering, Failing with Friends. We’ll endeavour to give you advice, wisdom, some laughs and much, much more. Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly Studio Engineer: Gulli Lawrence-Tickle Mix Engineer: Josh Gibbs Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. On my podcast, I discuss my guests' failures each week, seeking to understand what obstacles people have overcome and what, if anything, they've learned along the way. Because ultimately, our failures are lessons that help us understand success better. And before we get into my interview with the fabulous Sabrina Elba, I am so thrilled and

delighted to tell you that you can join us afterwards at Failing With Friends, my subscriber series where we continue our conversation. Every week I'll be going through your failures or questions with my brilliant guest. This week Sabrina and I go through failures from building confidence to holding onto grudges. It me, I mean, I am a Scorpio. Look forward to you joining us. And I'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to get in touch, follow the link in the podcast notes. A few years ago, I found myself at the GQ Men of the Year Awards. The most dazzling person I watched on stage that night was not, in fact,

a man, but it was Sabrina Doré Elba, who co-hosted the evening with her husband Idris. She was funny, smart, and yes, clearly gorgeous. Since then, she's established herself as a CEO, entrepreneur, model, and activist, a prolific multi-hyphenate, she's also a UN Goodwill ambassador and the founder of the genderless skincare line Sable Labs. Elba grew up in Canada and her family is of Somali descent. Her mother raised five children by herself and would later encourage her daughter to use her platform to champion gender equality in rural communities. In 2017, a chance meeting with an actor in a bar changed the course of Elba's life. Later, Mr Sabrina Elba would say it was love at first sight. But like most women,

Sabrina Elba is much more than simply one half of a marriage. As she said in a recent interview, it's so easy to strip a woman of her identity and attach it to a man. People assume things about you and they love putting women into boxes. Sabrina Elba, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you so much and thank you for having me. It's so, so nice to be here. It is a joy to have you here.

And I genuinely meant that about the GQ Men of the Year Awards. I know I sound a bit creepy. You know, that was my first ever hosting thing. I was so nervous. So for anyone to say that I did any good, I'm thankful. That was quite intimidating. It was an intimidating room. That's amazing. So tell me about what boxes you have been put in as a woman in the past. Which

are the boxes that really rile you? Oh gosh, I mean, we've probably all been through this, haven't we, as women? I think what frustrates me as of recent, particularly when it comes to the business world, is this sort of, oh, well, Idris is running it and you're, you know, what are you? Are you the face or are you the model? And it's this type of, oh, well, Idris is running it and you're, you know, what are you? Are you the face or are you the model or the, and it's this type of, I don't know, an assumption. I mean, we can call an assumption a box, right? That I haven't put in the same amount of effort or ideated in the same way or contribute in the same way. And I find that every so frustrating because I've worked really hard to find my footing in entrepreneurship and I'm quite proud of that.

And I think Idris was a huge inspiration for me in that sense, being like ridiculous entrepreneur. I mean, he'll start something every week if he could. I think also because I love fashion and I love beauty and that world, because to me, I'm not a creative person, but I find my creativity perhaps lies in that place. I find it also frustrating. People think, oh, well, you do fashion. What are you doing speaking at the governing council at the UN? As if those two things can't go together. You know, I want to be able to be who I am, truly who I am, like the things I like, and still be able to speak in the room and command respect and attention, as we all should when we're speaking. Those are two boxes that particularly annoy me. But I'm finding that I'm not letting them annoy me as much as they did,

because I think that's more of a them problem than it is a me problem. And it took me a little while to understand that. A hundred percent. But how do you cope with it then? So I think just understanding that and just remembering that. It is so much more about how someone perceives and sees life and sees women than about how you display yourself. And it took me a minute to kind of

fully understand that because I thought, what am I doing wrong? Should I dress a different way? Should I speak more clearly? And then, you know, my friends, Idris, everyone was like, well, maybe they just don't understand what the hell they're talking about. And I was like, yeah, probably not. So it really is just flipping your way of thinking and surrounding yourself with people who support you and remind you to be confident in who you are. How old were you when you met Idris? I was 27. So were people putting you in boxes before that as well? Yeah, I think a bit. So I was a philosophy major in uni. The only girl in my class, it's not a female heavy major, which is weird because we love questioning everything.

It's perfectly suited, right? And I remember near the end of my university course, I'd done pageant for Miss Vancouver, which is so embarrassing to think of now. And I just remember my classmates just making me feel so... I just like, oh, well, that's weird. It became like this kind of boys club that I felt like I could never get into. And I thought, look, I just want to explore all sides of myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And it became this instant feeling of like, oh, I guess I can't be that and this. I allowed that to bother me, if I'm really honest, quite heavily, you know, when I was about 24, 25. So looking back now, I just kind of want to stand up, walk over to them and be like, you don't know what you're talking about. But back then, you know, it takes a while as a woman to find your confidence.

And I would say I was particularly shy growing up. I'm one of five siblings. It's a very loud house, but I was also like my mom's like second in command. I was like the one who's quietly doing everything around the house. And my siblings were so loud and I felt like they were just like my kids taking full advantage of me so were you the oldest no I was second oldest but my older sister because she'd found a boyfriend really early on kind of left the coop earlier and I was left with my three younger siblings um who are so robust and loud and confident and maybe that actually helped me kind of become who I am today but that that went away

eventually and I wouldn't say I'm a shy person now but looking back I really was I think it's also being tall yes when did you have your growth spurt or were you always tall I think when I was like nine yeah I had mine at 14 so it wasn't as bad I think I was always I mean my dad was really tall and I'm always the tallest person in my friends. I think tall people attract shorter people. I was literally talking about this just this morning with producer Hannah, who is also tall. Right. Yeah. And when we see other tall people, we're like, where have you been my whole life?

Why do I have no tall friends? But it kind of made me like kind of shy down, like a little bit like tall poppy syndrome. You're kind of like, oh, I don't want to be the most noticeable person in the room. I was the only black girl in my high school as well. So it was kind of like, so I would just're kind of like oh I don't want to be the most noticeable person in the room I was the only black girl in my high school as well so it was kind of like so I would just like kind of shy down and now I feel like hey look at me I want to know more about your mom who sounds incredible Mariam yes how much of an influence has she been on you a massive influence so much so that I didn't want to admit it early on, even in my business. I mean, the way I carry myself. I mean, if my mom was in this room, she would just take

all the attention out of the room. She's so strong and confident. She's been through so much in her life. I mean, I remind her sometimes, mom, you didn't have shoes till you were eight years old. Like she was a proper rural kid growing up in Somalia, one of seven siblings, like did everything around the house. And now you look at her and she's just like dressed in designer and like just bossing every situation in every room she goes into. I remember thinking early on, it was quite embarrassing when someone would give her a compliment and she'd be like, thank you, I know.

And then appreciating that later on in life. And I'm like, good for you because she's gone through so many things in her life, in an abusive marriage with my stepdad. And, you know, I mean, just even her journey coming to Canada with my dad, like, I mean, she could write novels on what she'd been through and to have that confidence still and to be willing to speak up for whatever she's engaged about in the moment or wanting to speak up for. I just find that fascinating. And actually a lot of the philanthropic work I do is also inspired by her because she wanted to give back so bad. I mean, she left Somalia just before the civil war. So she left with her siblings and everyone in a happy place, right? Gets to Canada, the only one of her family and everything falls apart. And it was this feeling she describes as, I need to go back, I need to help, like feeling so helpless being so far away. And she committed to that. She went back so often that sometimes I was like, am I my aunt's kid? Because she eventually brought all my family over. We raise children as a village, Somali communities,

right? So I was at my aunt's, I was at my uncle's, and my mom would go back. And she still today has this foundation, the Hoya Madian Foundation. She doesn't even have a website. She doesn't even, she takes her own funds, goes to Somalia, wherever there's a will, collects water, brings it to villages, like just for no merit, for no credit. And she's just a fascinating person. And I think I could get emotional if I keep speaking about her. Like she's someone who's been a positive influence in my life. I know I wondered when I said that in the introduction about her raising five children by herself, whether you felt that was an accurate reflection because of what you've just mentioned there about raising children as a village. But it must have been isolating for her in Canada. So she initially was all right in Toronto Toronto where the majority of my family was.

When she'd moved to Vancouver to get away from my stepdad she was alone again. I mean we lived through it together and I do genuinely feel sorry for her but seeing her fight through it I think it did kind of shape us and shape her a bit and when we did get away she was alone again and had five children and was pregnant actually when we moved. So my youngest brother was born in Vancouver and she just lived through it. She figured it out. She worked four jobs. She, you know, I mean, she was cleaning the school at one point. Like she was just whatever she could do and kind of sacrificed a bit of where she intended to go in life and her dreams because now she has all these children and, you know, she kind of had to just make do and do whatever she could. So I knew I had to do well in life because I didn't want her to think that sacrifice was for nothing. So I made sure,

you know, I had an education, had a job and had ambitions and dreams almost to satisfy her in a way. And now I say, and I've said before in an interview, I realize even through the goodwill work that I do, a lot of that is about making the, I realize even through the goodwill work that I do, a lot of that is about making the world a better place for the kid that my mom was. And as someone who went through an abusive relationship, I work with a domestic abuse charity and someone who grew up in a rural environment. My EFAD work is with people in agricultural sectors, right? So it just kind of all shaped together. And I hadn't realized that until later on in life. It was like this subconscious thing that kept me going. So I have to thank her for almost everything, really.

Sounds so cheesy. No, it's profound. And do you think, does she say that she's proud of you? Oh, she does. She does. We did this podcast, coupled. The team had gotten her to do a bit of recording in Canada uh because to look at the mother-daughter relationship and I didn't know what she was going to say and I remember

hearing the footage I always say I love you but she'd be like I know you do of course like how she spoke about me in that little snippet like I mean I listen to it all the time don't tell her that I'm just like oh that's so lovely look at my shoot. I haven't been here about 10 minutes. I'm sorry. I have this effect. That's so beautiful. So what does Mariam think when you say, I met this guy at a bar. He's an actor. I think I'm not going to go to law school. Oh, my God.

I've actually got a funny story for you. And it is so weird. So my mom had gone back to school about the time that I'd met Idris so she wanted to get better at writing in English and she'd taken some courses and one of the projects that she had done was to pick someone in the public eye and write a piece on them no I know where this no this is at the cusp that we had just met I had no idea that she had just done this project okay okay? Okay. She hangs it on her fridge because she gets like an A+. And it is like so, so sweet, right? Because she's like, I used to hang your guys' stuff up. I'm hanging my stuff. And it is an essay on a

dress. Oh my goodness. So funny. And we'd been like a month and a half in at this point. But then an even crazier thing happened. I hadn't intended for them to meet so quickly initially because it's quite a big deal to bring someone home to a Somali family. It's marriage first. Dating isn't really a thing. You got to know. And when you know, it's like, all right, let's do it. So I went to pick her up. And on the way home, I realized I'd had one of Idris's belongings. I can't remember what it was. I think it was like a notebook that

he had at the time. So I stopped off at his trailer and I said, Mom, I just have to drop something off to a friend. So I go this way. He goes this way. My mom, having just written a piece on him, of course, instantly recognizes him and gets out of the car. She's like, hi.

And he's like, hi. And she's like, oh, I just wrote a piece on you. And then she sees me come back around modified and she's like, what? She's like, oh, I just wrote a piece on you. And then she sees me come back around mortified. And she's like, what? She's like, you're here for him? And Idris doesn't know that that's your mom. No, but he said she looked so much like me that he just was like, oh, shit. Looking back, I mean, I was mortified.

I was just like, what do I even do? I was like, well, mom, this is my friend. She goes, this is your friend. Yeah, this is my new friend. She's like, uh-huh. We get back in the car. It was almost a silent journey on the way home. We giggled at the beginning of it. I could just see her thinking. Yeah. So that's why you weren't home. Okay. so that's what you've been doing for the last okay oh okay oh like just like going through it right in front of me and I was just like laughing like it was so funny and and great now because it saved the awkwardness right like yes it just happened you didn't have to plan it or anything that's hilarious and having written an essay about him

obviously she knew that he was a good prospect what are the chances she picks him of all people it's like she manifested it yeah and it's funny because she knew more who he was than I did because she'd just done this whole background research but she'd watched the Mandela film and it really inspired her to write this piece and it's so funny now and I still tease her about it I'm like well you know him more than I do so that's amazing so I'm guessing they get on very well they do yeah they do Idris is good with everyone I know I'm so thankful because I have such a close-knit group of friends and like he's the guy that's like just in the friend group and like he's so good he's a good egg it's so lovely to hear someone talk so highly about their romantic partner and you you usually get the opposite? No, well, I'm just trying to think. You should hear me on some days. It's funny because I speak like

that about my husband. Right. And I think obviously he's a great person, but I think for both of us, it's a second marriage. And so there's an element of like, we're so grateful to have found each other. But that's kind of beautiful. It is beautiful. Yeah, it is is and we met on an app and actually that was sort of really romantic in a way I hadn't anticipated because we were both intentional about what we wanted and that's very cute you two talk a lot about being a couple on coupledom right which is your hit podcast and you've interviewed some amazing people Chris Jenner Ben and Jerry of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream love Love them. I know. And I just wondered, what do you think are the top insights, the top sort of three insights that you've got from interviewing other couples about how to be a couple yourself?

You know, we learned really good things on that episode. But a friend said something even more interesting to me, like literally as I was just on holiday and she happened to be there. And I was like, what's the secret? Because you guys have been married forever. She's someone who'd been in a long relationship. And she said, not wanting to leave each other at the same time. Yes. Helpful. I hadn't quite thought of that. It was so funny the way she just blurted it out. I was like, that is a very good point. It's about supporting each other when you're at your lowest, right? And everything that's frustrating in the world comes out at your partner. And you think that it's the time and it's like, it's you and reminding them that,

no, this isn't a relationship and being for them through that, which is so hard to do when you have an ego, especially, right? Like for anyone, it's extremely hard to do. But I realized that that's actually a very good point it is so important to connect with people just to even hear an experience you've never heard so that you can question yours it's so important and yeah I think you know kudos to what you do because it's an important job thank you well I could not agree more about the power of connection and before we get on to your failures your lessons you mentioned in passing that you were the only black person in your high school. Yeah.

What was that like? It was kind of like you don't know you're in it until someone tells you you're in it. Yeah. And there'd been moments where someone would mention it and I'd be like, oh, right, oh yeah. And also like it shaped my views of wellness and beauty and in a bit where I was always trying to, I didn't have the right representation around me at the time that I was trying to conform to something else and, you know, look a particular way to a standard that wasn't necessarily set by myself. So in some ways it was, is frustrating, but in other ways, I mean, it was such a diverse group of people. I was the only black person, but it's not like it was a majority other. Me and my

friends literally look like the UN, Like, we are so diverse. And I love that, too. Peyton, it's happening. We're finally being recognized for being very online. It's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo.

All the time. So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions. If you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second. Then join me, Hunter Harris. And me, Peyton Dix. The host of Wondery's newest podcast, Let Me Say This. As beacons of truth and connoisseurs of mass, we are scouring the depths of the internet so you don't have to.

We're obviously talking about the biggest gossip and celebrity news. Like it's not a question of if Drake got his body done, but when. You are so messy for that, but we will be giving you the B-sides. Don't you worry. The deep cuts, the niche, the obscure. Like that one photo of Nicole Kidman after she finalized her divorce from Tom Cruise. Mother. A mother to many.

Follow Let Me Say This on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new episodes on YouTube or listen to Let Me Say This ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Hi, I'm Matt Lewis, historian and host of a new chapter of Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit. Join me and world-leading experts every week as we explore the incredible real-life history that inspires the locations, the characters, and the storylines of Assassin's Creed. Listen and follow Echoes of History, a Ubisoft podcast brought to you by History Hit, wherever you get your podcasts. wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, let's get on to your failures. Your first one is your failure to work a nine to five. Did you try to work a nine to five? It's all I ever wanted, really. Yeah, and then I say it as a failure because it can sound like, maybe I'm saying it from a privileged, I would be thankful to have any job. It's more from a place of where I thought my life was going to go. You know, I'd done philosophy to do law. I mean, I took my LSAT. I had applied at the cusp that I had met Idris and I was so set on what my life was going to be. And I wanted to do corporate law. And everything changed. I ended up in PR randomly, PR for charities,

everything changed. I ended up in PR randomly, PR for charities, nonprofits, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't sit in an office. And I was like, who am I? I'm not the person that I thought that I was. I was like, I'm not ready. I want to explore more sides of myself. And like how privileged I was to be able to do that, right? I got to travel and shape my life in a way where I had more ownership of my time and what I got to do. And that's why when people tell me, oh, I've been thinking about starting a business, I'm like, do it. Even if you fail to just go on that journey to see if you can kind of shape your own trajectory in that sense. I loved it. And I love it now so much. And I'm so thankful that my life had changed, but I see it as this failure because there was so much expectation that I'd set on myself that for a

while it took me kind of into a hole. I'd gotten a bit depressed about it because I'd felt that I'd failed myself. And actually, I was just failing a version of myself. So how old were you when this felt like a failure? 28, 29. Yeah. Because I often say that failure is what happens when life doesn't go according to plan. And then you have to question the plan and where the plan came from because very often we're socially conditioned into believing work should look a certain way or a woman's life should look a certain way by a certain age and actually that's often not authentically us it's something that other people or society has told us we should want and I think that's so profound what what you just said there about inhabiting that liminal space where you felt lost but actually it was your own expectation or

someone else's expectation that you'd inherited that's what was making you feel confused and it makes you wonder was it my own expectation or was it an influence of the world around me because to be so uncomfortable in something I thought was going to be right for me, it makes you think, well, why did I think it was going to be right for me? Yes. You know? You mentioned before that everything changed. Yeah.

At what point did you realize that everything had changed and that this man your mom had written an essay about was worth changing your life for? I think the day I landed in London I think before even I had left that job and I started off at a in a high-rise in Shoreditch I was looking down my window and there were so many people I mean Vancouver instantly felt like a village I'd never been to Europe before so just as I had moved I did like three days in Paris with my girlfriend because we'd always wanted to see Paris. And then did the move and they just picked me up from the station.

And, you know, I'm like, OK, I'm here. I'm in London. I just remember looking down and thinking, oh, my God, this is intimidating. And I'd moved before when I was younger. I'd moved to Montreal. I was born in Montreal, so I wanted to go back at one point. But London just felt so different. And also, all of a sudden there

was so many black people it's like and so many Somalis I hadn't grown up around either so it felt like this new diverse big city and then I felt really lonely yeah like really lonely I left my siblings her mom all my best friends I mean we were like a group of 15 girls that were so tight knit like I mean going through elementary to high school to uni together, right? I actually came on this visa, which was a great visa. I recommend to anyone, if you are part of a Commonwealth country, you can go to another Commonwealth country before you're 35 and work for two years and then keep renewing as you like. So it was the little safety blanket um and I was okay I can go back but I remember just being so intimidated and feeling so lonely so you had met Idris maybe a year before

or months yeah yeah actually only seven months before that I mean it's very brave to take that leap of faith for like a small town girl yes yeah and were you living together when you arrived or that high rise and shortage you were on your own I I was on my own. Yeah. And we were kind of like doing the basically living together. And also because he has a son and I met his son and it would have been inappropriate to move in right away. We were so certain about each other that it felt like it all made sense. As much as people in my life were like, what are you doing? You barely know this person. But I mean, he says it was love at first. I completely agree. barely know this person but I mean he says it was love at first I completely agree like I'd never met someone I just understood so immediately and was like you get me how did we just get each other like I almost think we were like together in her previous life like I sound like the worst romance

book when I talk about Idris like I just love him to bits and he made me feel very safe and secure that I thought I can do this I want to come I want to be with made me feel very safe and secure that I thought, I can do this. I want to come. I want to be with you. And it wasn't even just like, I moved to London and we'll date. It was like, no, we'll move so we can be together. That kind of security and safety did make me feel confident enough to kind of pack up, leave my life.

I just applied to law school and go and take a chance. And I'm thankful that I did because he really is like the best thing. When you say that you had that period of feeling alone, not without Idris, but like alone in your job and your identity in a way, how low did you get? I got very low. I got really low. There's days that I would just sort of like, walk around and cry. And it's funny because you can be so happy in one side of your life. I was so happy in love, but so sad otherwise. And it was this weird juxtaposition where I'd see him and I'd instantly light up.

But then kind of a dangerous position to be in because the minute he left, had to go to work, had to do something. I was so sad. And I didn't want my happiness to be dependent on someone, right? Like, I mean, nobody wants to feel like that. And I made do by calling my family. My family came to visit and my friends came to visit, but it just, it didn't, it was like this hole I had to fill. And I think actually a lot of my work ethic and ambition kind of came from, I'd gone from the most independent person, you know, with a mom who's very independent to feeling like I was dependent on someone else for something. It made me like,

stand straight up and go, I've got to figure out what's happening for me and where I'm going in my life. So I could reclaim that feeling of independence. And it's not to say anything negative on his part. It's more to say, you know, we really need to own our own narratives. And it took me a minute to kind of figure that out. So I think that was actually one of my lowest points. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think you're so right. That nature of coexistence of the sort of numbness of depression can be very compartmentalized sometimes. And so you don't see it as that. I've definitely gone through periods like that, where only looking back do I recognize how distant from myself I felt at certain junctures. And it's difficult because your friends will tell you, you should be so happy.

How exciting. Especially in your 20s. Your 20s are just a hellfire. Oh, yeah. Of sort of identity and purpose and like trying to discover, as you say, yourself. Yeah. So your second failure, and I don't know whether it's the same sort of time in your life, was a failure to take care of your body.

You became very run down. Say that with a runny nose. But yeah, so when does this state from, your failure to take care of yourself? I have always been quite poor in terms of diet. I mean, the Somali diet is very carb heavy. You look at a Somali plate, it's a lot of yellow, okay? Potatoes, rice, rice and pasta. I'd gone through being a vegetarian, being a vegan, being a vegetarian, being a vegan,

because I hated savory foods so much that actually being vegetarian or vegan just meant I leaned towards like vegan sweets or vegetarian sweets because I didn't want to eat protein-based dishes. And I was in such an unhealthy place. It wasn't until I actually got COVID and me and Idris were like going through this like mini Armageddon in the States. He was filming at the time. And I was like, I am so unhealthy. It really did kind of change the way I looked at myself. Like for the first time ever, I was Googling YouTube videos on yoga. I've never like lifted my arm in any way in my whole life. I'd never been a gym person. And actually, because I was tall, I was fortunate that I carried my weight really well throughout my whole life.

But when I met Idris and we were eating out and doing all this stuff, I'd gained quite a bit of weight for the first time. That was actually the start of my journey to find my sense of balance again and figure out, like, how am I going to get through this sugar addiction in my life like so many of my family members have diabetes right and it was quite serious I actually met this amazing nutritionist recently she is so brilliant her name's Rosemary Ferguson you might have heard of her I have yeah oh man I don't know this is going to be TMI but we did a test that's TMI you probably know what I'm talking about but anyways we did a test that's TMI. You probably know what I'm talking about. But anyways, we did this test where we're examining parts of myself and I have so much inflammation. This is serious. You need to think about changing your lifestyle. I feel like God is sending me these red flags, like do it now or it's too late. I'm not who I want to be on that trajectory, but recognizing that I'm not who I want to be makes me want to

push harder to become that person. And it's so interesting because I talk so much about skin and skin health. The gut-skin axis is so connected. I'm positive that almost every breakout that I'm like, where did this come from? It's probably from something I ate and how my gut is feeling. And I see that correlation when I detox. I think people have a perception sometimes that self-care is self-indulgent. And actually what you're saying is, no, I'm investing in my health because I take myself seriously because I want to be around for long enough to achieve the greatness that I know I can. And I think that's such a great way of putting it. And it reminds me of this quote, I'm going to that very annoying thing

that interviewers do now. There's this quote that Idris gave, I'm seeing if I can find it. It's about the North Star of greatness. So Idris said about you, one of the things that Sabrina and I share is that we both recognize greatness. It fuels us. It motivates us. We are constantly working towards getting to that North Star greatness. Did he really say that? He said that. That's so nice. Isn't that great?

But also, is that a loss of pressure? Is that a bit of pressure? You know what I think that he might be referring to? We are very critical, but in a way that we, I'm even this way when I clean. There's a standard that I could reach that's higher. It's almost like we're always looking at a goalpost that's just a bit too far away. I relate. Yeah. And we feed off that from each other because we're like, oh, it could be so much better though, couldn't it? We're never satisfied. And I kind of like that. never satisfied. And I kind of like that. Yeah. I've become friends with that in me because actually I realized that it gives me drive and motivation. The slightly negative aspect for me is sometimes that I am not just competitive with myself, but with other people.

I compare myself too much. Yeah. I can totally relate to that. Absolutely. It can be a bad thing for sure, but it could also be a good thing if you try to take the aspect of it's not really about what do they have and what do I don't it's about taking inspiration from people you see around you so I'm trying to look at it that way yeah now you sit before me as someone who a lot of people would think that is objectively a beautiful person and um although that's an objective fact I want to be friends now we I mean it's just it's an objective fact but I don't want to objectify you but I want to ask how you feel about your body now having been on this health kick but also still reaching for the wine gums like Like, how do you feel inside? How do you feel you look on the outside?

And does it bother you? I mean, thank you for so much for saying that, because I don't think it's very hard to look at yourself that way. And I want to be someone who owns that and says, oh, thank you. Like, I'm quite happy with the way I look, but it's always been a struggle for me. I think part of it was being tall, like we mentioned earlier,

that kind of made me feel a bit less confident. And then also now being in an industry where people compare people all the time and place judgment quite easily on a woman's looks. And it's been a bit of internally with like, do I feel confident? Because at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. Not whether you think you're beautiful or not, whether you feel confident walking into a room, right? And I struggle with that confidence a bit. On the internal side, I still know that my body is angry at me. I feel it in my tummy, I see it on my skin. I mean, I am trying, but I know that I am not, and maybe I'm 50% of the way, but I'm not exactly where I need to be. I have made massive strides. I think I look closer to, I did when I met Idris, which obviously I was a lot younger. And it's very hard as we get older as women to compare your 30 year old body to your 25 year old body. Things change, right? But I do feel like I've

come to a place with an amazing team who helped me kind of find a rhythm in that so that I feel more confident in knowing that, well, I'm taking the right steps. But still, it's a struggle. And I hear people say to me, like, what are you talking about? You shouldn't feel confident. And I'm like, I don't know. Do we ever 100% feel the way other people see us I don't know well very good philosophical question I don't think we do yeah we would never know if we did no that's the other thing I mean but Idris says that to me all the time and he's like you just don't know how other people see you you're looking you're looking at yourself in a different way and I tried to remind myself of that and if I took in a picture feeling really good like I look at

my wedding day picture I love that picture it's probably because I felt really happy in that moment so I think it's an important thing to remember that beauty is so much more about the the look it's it is just as much about how you feel now how difficult then is it being married to someone who people lose their shit over but like all all age demographic like all people are obsessed with Idris Elba and like I personally am obsessed with Sabrina Elba but I wonder if that's is that difficult I'd find that really difficult I did a little in the beginning because unashamedly women would I mean I cannot tell you I can imagine it was quite serious I was like wow I don't think I would ever do that the funniest was when we were at

essence fest yeah like what a setup for ourselves? As if I shouldn't have seen this coming. It is essence best. You bid yourself a walk in. I think I almost got stampeded. Oh, my God. I know. I was like, this is how I'm going to die. Poor thing. She's like shoved out of the way.

The stampeding almost. All kinds of women. And he'll never see it. He'll never admit it. He's like, what are you talking about like i'm like babe like i could feel her looking at you from here and i'm not even looking at her but he sees someone in that position potentially as someone who's a fan of his work or his persona because he doesn't feel he is that person that is idris elba right so when he when he goes home and he's like in his sweats and like, I mean, he still looks beautiful. He's like, no, they like that guy that was in the movie, that character. It's not me.

And it's a really cute disconnect, but it's also like, I mean, I'd love to hear and really get into the deep dive of why he feels that way. Because to me, I find them very hard to separate. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to believe sometimes when you're in a room and someone like comes right in between you both it doesn't matter if we're kissing in an airport but also like how privileged he feels to be in a position where people admire him for his work for you know whatever it is um you know he he doesn't take

it for granted so and I don't take it for granted. I totally get it. I married him. So it sounds a bit like he has Sasha Fierce and the way that Beyonce has Sasha Fierce when she goes on stage, he has the professional. I wonder if that's a protective device. Yeah, I think it's really sensible. Yeah, I think so too.

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But everything wasn't as it seemed. I just had a 12-year-old boy show up here asking for help. He's emaciated. He's got tape around his legs. Ruby Frankie is his mom's name. Infamous is covering Ruby Frankie, the world of Mormonism, and a secret therapy group that ruined lives. Listen to Infamous wherever you get your podcasts. podcasts. Your final failure, and I want to give it enough space because I'm so glad you're going to talk about it. And we were chatting before and I also have experience of this and I can't wait to get into it with you, is your failure to have kids. And then you put in brackets,

is your failure to have kids and then you put in brackets yet despite family and societal pressure so tell me about that are you someone who has always wanted kids I was I come from a massive family because it's not just me and my five siblings it is my cousins and their five siblings and my aunts and uncles and their eight siblings like you know it's it's a cousins and their five siblings and my aunts uncles and their eight siblings you know it's it's a lot and children is very much a reason to be in Somali culture for women particularly right it is like what are you doing if you haven't had children now there's actually a particular word for a woman who's older in life who doesn't have children or isn't married yeah and it translates to owl it's called gumes oh I love that it's quite interesting but I don't think they mean it in a okay I took it as like wise owl I was like I'll claim that yeah it tends to be quite maybe not so nice when it's used but I I mean when we'd gotten married I was already

too old to be getting married you know like, like my family had waited long enough. And then when I'd made decision to, you know, wait a bit, I'd instantly become a stepmom, you know, when we'd gotten serious, to three children. So Idris has, you know, his two-year-old at the time. He had a 14-year-old and he had a 24-year-old who's an adopted child as well. And I was like, this is a lot. I'm not just going to now add to this equation. Hold on a second. I wanted to explore that.

I wanted to feel what it was like. And I'm so thankful. They are the best children. I feel so, so close to them. Like, I mean, Mina-san, who's 22 now, like, I feel like she's one of are the best children. I feel so, so close to them. Like, I mean, Mina-san, who's 22 now, like, I feel like she's one of my little best friends, you know, and she's so cool and so inspiring. And I love watching her grow and develop. And I felt like, okay, I have a duty here and I have a responsibility now as a step-mom. And, you know, it's a bit of a thankless job, right? And you know, but I wanted to do right by it.

me, right? And you know. But I wanted to do right by it. I wasn't then going to then go, okay, I'm ready to have kids. So for my family, that was a really hard pill to swallow. And actually, I think for some people in this world, because I was getting all those comments like, why doesn't she have kids? He must not want to be with her. Why don't you? It was this constant kids, kids, kids questioning questioning of it almost made me pull away from it a bit more I also have endometriosis quite seriously and for me like that's like a serious thing like I'd want to to plan it and go through it because you know it's kind of scary territory hearing what friends in similar positions have gone through and yeah my family just didn't quite get it I started to genuinely feel like I'd failed them,

potentially failed Idris, failed myself. I mean, we'd have conversations, but I was so waffly on the subject, and then guilty because I know and have friends who can't have children and want to have children, and it was almost like, well, does the fact that I can mean that I should? And it was this really weird space to be in that I'm still in potentially. I do want children. I know I want children. I want it to be on my own time and when I'm ready to have children, not because my family pressures me to, not because society pressures me to, not even because, you know, relationship wise, I might feel pressured to. I think it really needs to come at a time where you're both ready. And

it's an important conversation. So to call it a failure is just to have this look sort of inwards on why do I feel so badly about it? And I don't think I should. It makes total sense. And I agree that you shouldn't and that so much of it is scaffolding that is imposed on us by other outside forces and actually unpacking whether you want a child when you want a child how you might go about having your child is a really necessary act yeah of parenting before you physically become a parent so I actually think it's a really wise approach yeah and I can completely understand the step parenting thing I've been a step parent twice and currently have three stepchildren they're older now so about to turn 20 about to turn 18 and 14 and it's a different dynamic where I feel I can show up more as a kind of older

friend who's like, not, I mean, I hesitate to call myself a friend. It's an interesting, maybe I'll reach for that Somali word. I'm like an owl in their lives. But there's not the sense of like getting the school uniform ready or doing any of the disciplining. That's not my role at all. My role is to be a support system, particularly Justin my other half but Idris's son was so young when you came on the scene so two how old is he now nine and I don't want to pry because I know that this is a very private area and it involves other people but what has that experience been like I mean that's very intense I thought it would be more intense. Yeah. I think because I'd been around so much children in my life and my siblings that I just thought it was the cutest thing in the world.

I was like, and he looks like Yitris. Like, I mean, they scrunched their nose up the same. Like I instantly fell in love with him. So I think I feel quite lucky. I had a really, really good experience. And still to this day, I think you're right. There's certain roles we might not take on as stepmothers. It makes you feel a little bit like there's always going to be a bit of a distance. But it's about consistency. I think now more than ever, being there and showing them that you will be there and you're not leaving. And that's a very hard thing to do, you know, because you could potentially not be there anymore. You know, and don't wish that on myself, but there might be.

It's very possible. It happens all the time, right? So it's about showing that you're going to be there for them and almost making this promise, knowing that might not be true. It's this weird place. But I love them two bits. Like, I genuinely do. And wish they were, were like mine as well like you know and in a sense it just reminds me like they are yours and I'm like I know but you know what I mean and

but I want to go back a little bit to this previous feeling because I was thinking like so maybe some of the reasons I feel bad like why why do I feel so bad about and I think a little bit of it comes from guilt because I feel I'm being a bit selfish because I love traveling I love being on my own schedule you know we as as parent you know we have one child week on week off and if he's old enough she's in the states he's at uni and it's like am I so much focused on myself that I'm not willing to share? Because my mom is just like, this is not what life's about. Life is about children. Once you have them, you'll see them.

You'll regret it. You'll regret waiting for so long. Then I get this like guilty, like, have I been too selfish? How old are you now? 34? Turning 35, yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate you talking about this.

And I suppose I appreciate it from a different perspective, which is that I tried and failed to have children in that I spent 12 years having fertility treatment unsuccessfully recurrent miscarriage and actually I am now at peace with the fact that it's not going to happen in the way that I thought it would and it's so strange because I never thought I would feel this level of peace, but I do. And I think part of the reason I can feel that peace is because my life has purpose separate from being a mother. My purpose is very much communication, connection, and maybe speaking for those people who are not parents and who tried and failed in the same way but also I think that the piece is partly because I tried really really hard and I

explored lots of different things and it means that I can live with less regret and I think what you're in the process of doing is that exploring and it's so important because either way you're going to end up being at peace with who you are and what you chose and that's a really powerful thing that's such a beautiful thing to say I want I want to feel that for sure and actually just the older you get actually the kind of the more scary it gets because you're really living through all your friends' stories and like, oh, that can happen? To go through things like that, potentially in the public eye, kind of scares me as well. And you hear about that. And I admire you and your piece in this space. And I desire that very much so. So I think for you to share that, and I didn't know that about you, and I think that's so beautiful. Thank you to share that and I didn't know that about you and I think

that's so beautiful um thank you for sharing that I want to feel that with you thank you I absolutely have every faith that you will get to your peace and maybe it's about getting to where you want to be with your body and your health and then there'll be a clarity to it. The one thing I would say is that I think the greater risk is that you regret the thing that you didn't do. So as long as you've tried and you've explored everything. I feel like that deserves an applause. Oh, that was quite good. If there was a room, we'd be like, yeah, tell it how it is. I just don't want you to feel any pressure other than a responsibility to be true to yourself.

Because I think who you are is really magical. Oh, well, I hope you feel the same. Thank you. Because you're quite magical. Oh, Sabrina, this has been the best conversation. Look at us all mushy. This is nice. I have adored meeting you and thank you for showing up and being so courageous and authentic in your

vulnerability we really appreciate it thank you so much Sabrina thank you for making me feel like this is a safe space it's a pleasure we don't have stampedes of hormonal women rushing through the door at any moment so you are safe you are not gonna get trampled how embarrassing oh my god it happened not denying it thank you so much thank you You are. I'm not going to get trampled. How embarrassing. Oh my God. It happened. No denying it. Thank you so much. Thank you.

I just wanted to remind you that we further our conversation with Sabrina Elba over at Failing With Friends. It's a really wonderful community of subscribers when we chat through your failures and questions. It is important in life to be with someone who sees your shared ambitions as not a straight path together, but a path that winds around, across and all over the place. But you get to the same point because it's never a straight path. So, you know, unfortunately, I'm sure he might not be so happy, but I think you absolutely need to tell him how you feel. Remember to press the follow button to get new episodes of How To Fail as soon as they're published on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.