How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Sophie Habboo - I Wish I Had More Boundaries

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

This week we are joined by podcasting royalty, Sophie Habboo! Habboo found fame on Made In Chelsea, E4’s structured-reality show following the lives of affluent 20-something Londoners where she met fellow cast-mate Jamie Laing in 2017. The two began dating - and then launched a media empire. Their podcast, NearlyWeds was an instant hit and was rebranded as NewlyWeds when they got married in 2023. Habboo now runs the hugely successful JamPot podcast production company with her husband and the two served as executive producers on Raising Chelsea, a new three-part Disney+ documentary following the couple as they face the messy, scary and comic reality of becoming parents for the first time. In this episode Sophie talks openly about her feelings of overwhelm and anxiety in the run up to their wedding, her ADHD diagnosis, the challenges of being a new mum and the importance of setting boundaries. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 03:50 Family Roots And Motherhood 06:39 Ziggy Bay And Marathon Madness 08:35 Failure One: No Boundaries 10:23 One Day Office Job Disaster 16:01 Wedding Overwhelm And ADHD 20:52 Insecurities and Social Situations 21:53 Anxiety and Imposter Feelings 23:05 Therapy and Psychic Rituals 24:18 Sponsor Break The Testaments 26:12 Motherhood and Fear of Failing 29:36 Love Story With Jamie 33:54 A Surprise Voice Note 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: I do always have imposter syndrome and maybe even as a mother... I really struggle with ‘mum guilt’. Had I been diagnosed with ADHD earlier, I would've been able to understand and have more compassion for myself. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Raising Chelsea is available to watch now on Disney+ The Testaments, a new Hulu original series, streaming April 8 exclusively on Disney+ Join the How To Fail community: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: www.theelizabethday.substack.com 📚 WANT MORE? Jamie Laing - on anxiety, insecurity and the pressure of fame. Plus his ‘failure’ to have a long-term relationship [spoiler alert: it all worked out just fine!]: swap.fm/l/QXKrzzpg5hULgBpXWMBY Dorinda Medley - on young widowhood, dealing with anger and what The Real Housewives of New York taught her: swap.fm/l/Q3MPl0zGn9MShaUdGEi4 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Elizabeth and Sophie answer listener questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: www.howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Shania Manderson Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] _________________________________________________________________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I knew I was obviously doing and I was like, he just thought I was being like really frisky on holiday. He was like, this is great. I actually then did go into trying to do a 9 to 5 job. What was that? To the day, I still don't even know what the job was. Do you feel good enough? Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day.

This is the podcast that believes the true test of character is not the failure itself, but in how we respond to it. Before we get started on this conversation, please do remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single episode. This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence.

And accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. I'm Craig Melford. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half-fold kind of guy. And now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too.

Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, challenges. Their stories are funny and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week. And who knows? You might just come away with your own. Glass Half Full. Search Glass Half Full with Craig Nelson from today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. My guest today is Sophie Haboo, podcaster, model, entrepreneur and reality TV star. After a childhood in

Leamington Spa, boarding school and a media and communications degree at Newcastle University, she found fame on Made in Chelsea, E4's Structured Reality Show following the lives of affluent 20-something Londoners. Haboo initially struggled with the attention it brought her, but became a regular, crossing paths with her fellow castmate Jamie Leng in 2017. The two began dating and then launched a media empire. Their podcast, Nearly Words, was an instant hit and was rebranded as newlyweds when they got married in 2023. Fans of the show love the couple's hilarious and authentic repartee, whether it's arguing over hand jobs being underrated or having more serious conversations about anxiety and toxic masculinity. Habuna runs the hugely successful Jam Pop podcast

production company with her husband and the two served as executive producers on Raising Chelsea, a new three-part Disney Plus documentary following the couple as they face the messy, scary and comic reality of becoming parents for the first time. And yet, for someone who has publicly shared so much of her life, such focus still doesn't feel entirely comfortable. We always have this struggle in our relationship, Habo says. Jamie would want to share every single thing, and I find that a little bit scary.

With this TV show, I realized that it wasn't going to work unless we showed everything. Sophie Haboo, welcome to How to Fail. Oh my goodness, what an intro! I'm so happy to have you sitting opposite me. I'm thrilled. For multiple reasons, but one of them is I'm really honored that How to Fail is your first ever solo podcast interview. I've been so nervous.

I've been calling everyone. I'm like, I need to prep. Do I come in with notes? Oh, Sophie. Do people come in with notes? One person came in with notes. I think it was Gina Davis. It's a bit weird.

Well, interestingly, you and she share something in common and it pertains to one of your failure, so we'll come on to that. Please don't be nervous. I lapped up every single second of Raising Chelsea. Have you watched it? I've watched it all, Sophie. I've done my research. Oh my goodness, I need to know everything.

I think you really shine in Raising Chelsea. And I also think, alongside you and Jamie, the breakout star, are the parents. Oh, but Penny's got some absolute wry things. wild, amazing one-liners. Yes, Penny is Jamie's mother. And at one point she says that she left him in a pram in the garden for several hours and to train him out of crying. Yeah, yeah.

She tells me to do regularly with Ziggy and I'm like, oh, can't politely decline. I'm not going to do that. So funny. It was also lovely to see your parents. And your surname Habu has Iraqi heritage. Is that right? Yes. My dad's Arabic, yeah.

How interesting. Yes. Have you ever been to Iraq? Is that a weird question? No, I haven't been. I would like, it's such a shame because so my, my dad's family moved, well, most of them moved to Michigan when he was younger. And then his father moved to England. So my dad's never grown up.

I mean, he doesn't speak Arabic. So we don't, it's very much, like we eat Arabic food and stuff, but we don't, you know, I don't have much of that culture with me, which is a shame. I'd love to sort of be more cultured. What's your favorite Arabic food stuff? Oh, I love all the standard Babba Ginoosh. My mum makes this incredible rice dish with like minced lamb. And weirdly when she met my dad, his father made it. And so it was a very family thing.

We all sort of ate it. It's delicious. I can't remember that any name, but it's so good. What that shows is how important family is to you. And that's something that came across loud and clear throughout raising Chelsea as well. Yeah. That this is something it feels like you've always longed for to be a mother. I, from a really young age, was like, all I want to do is, you know, have babies and have a family.

So I feel really lucky that I'm in the position I am now. You say in the show that motherhood is everything you dreamed of and more. Does it still feel like that? I should actually start by saying that I am so sleep deprived of the moment. He's four months and he's teething and sleep regression. So if I'm not making any sense to you and the listeners, I'm so sorry. I do feel like my brain is not quite gone back to normal since becoming a mother. But no, in answer to your question, it's one of the hardest things I've ever done,

if not the hardest things I've ever done. And I'm only four months in. But yeah, the love is mad. Thank you for saying that about your fears that you're not making sense. Because from my side, you are incredibly eloquent and you're making total sense. But I think very often there are diminishing. terms applied to the experience of pregnancy and birth. So baby brain is kind of one of them. Yeah. But actually there is a serious underlying issue, which is all of these hormonal shifts

and the brain fog. You know, you're tired. Your brain's changing. The hormones are real. You know, if you're breastfeeding or you're stopping breastfeeding or all of it, it's a shift and it is just an adjustment. And so yeah, I don't feel as, I wouldn't say I've ever been quick. And I've always got mumbled up with my words, but I'm more so now. Like, I'm a little bit like, woo, is it just air up there at the moment? No. Well, that's so interesting that you perceive yourself like that. And maybe it is because you think differently. So that's really interesting. And we'll elaborate on that later. Ziggy is called Ziggy because you went on holiday to a beautiful place called Ziggy Bay. Lovely place. After Jamie had run those bloody ultramarathes. I know. I got him when he was

vulnerable. I was like, now is my time. I didn't even tell him. Didn't even tell him. You didn't tell him that you were going on holiday? No, I was just like blindfold. Off we go. No, I didn't tell him that what I was, I knew I was obviously doing. And I was like, ah, he just thought I was being like really frisky on holiday.

He was like, this is great. But we as a nation felt like we ran alongside Jamie as he was running those marathons. It was an extraordinary thing to witness because he wore. his emotions and his pain so publicly, it was something so beautiful about it. And I remember texting him and just getting these texts back saying, I'm in hell, I just don't think I can do it. Like it was real the amount that he was going through.

What was that like for you, Sophie? It was so intense. Truthfully, Jamie actually didn't want me to come up. So I arrived on day three. But he didn't want me to come up. He wanted to put his head down, like get involved. He just needed to get in the most. moment, but when I saw the videos and the clips and I spoke to him on FaceTime, I was like,

he's not in a good way. And obviously, everyone was so supportive and it was, you know, it was crazy looking back at it. It's a wild time. Everyone was rooting. I mean, people were out on the streets, like, it was mad. But it's just so proud. It was crazy. It's so proud, so brave. I didn't expect any of it. I don't think he expected any of it. I don't think he thought he would sort of have that emotional breakdown or be that vulnerable. He was just running, you know, for comic relief and he was going to do this challenge for BBC. But actually it was so much more. And I actually think it's really changed him as a person.

Has it? Yeah, I definitely. Has it changed your relationship? Yes, it has. I think over the years since I've been with Jamie, he's obviously very openly spoken about his anxiety and all these, you know, different. mental health hurdles that he's had to overcome. And I think throughout our relationship, he's just got to understand or become more vulnerable or become more okay or accepting with himself. And with doing that, it's just made us grow. When I started this podcast, I honestly

felt like I was learning a brand new language overnight. Scripts, artwork, scheduling, tech. Suddenly, I was the entire team and it was kind of overwhelming. There were so many, moments, I wished I had a proper business partner to help me figure it all out. That's why I love Shopify. It's the commerce platform behind millions of businesses and it gives you everything you need in one place. You can build a beautiful online store in minutes with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. Their AI tools help you write product descriptions and even polish your photography, which is a lifesaver when you're spinning 100 plates. And you can manage everything, inventory, payments, analytics, without juggling 10 different tabs.

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We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And, of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims.

She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being Shamaizing. Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. Okay, so your first failure is your failure to have boundaries. I want to stress that my family were amazing, and I was so lucky. My parents were really liberal, and actually, it's a lot of. It sounds a really weird thing to say, but, you know, my dad almost had no boundaries.

Like, whatever you want to do, you can do. I wasn't often told no. My sister was always sort of the academic one. She was amazing at school. And I was sort of the theatrical entertainer, like crazy. Oh my goodness, Sophie's crazy. She has all these weird sayings that she says, like sophism, they used to call it. We had this very liberal life and we were always encouraged to do anything, but never really given

and the structure to help with it. And I hope if my parents are listening to this, my childhood was incredible. I'm so lucky. But I went to uni and I did media and communications. And I did well. But I never identified, you know, I got a 2-1, but I never identified as someone who was academic.

I never identified as someone who was going to go into a normal 9-to-5. Like I was always going to become an actor. That's what my dad told me I was going to do. I thought I would just walk onto a set and be cast a role. So I went to a acting. class and I was very humbled very quickly like everyone there had been doing it since they were like eight they had done auditions they had done training they had been rejected and I was just there and

they were like so what have you done I've been in my school plays and my tiny little girl school which has 20 people in my year like I was very much like a big fish in a small pond and suddenly coming into this I was like this is not going to be as easy as I think it's going to be so I I quit matting class and I was like that I mean there's no way

I can do that I realize how hard it would be to get into that industry I actually then did go into trying to do a nine to five job What was that? To the day

I still don't even know what the job was I had to sit in a room and I had to answer calls and if they wanted to go to like you know if they wanted to do something

I'd have to put them on to bar one It was like a switchboard But of course, I didn't listen to when they were telling me what I had to do. I hope it wasn't like a 9-99 operator. I promise you guys, it wasn't. But I essentially, every time they called, I was like, yeah, I got it. Easy, sounds a breeze.

When they'd call me, they'd say, oh, this is what I want to do. And I'd look at the keyboard. I'd be like, overwhelmed. So I'd hang up the phone. Every time. I did it for eight hours. I just hung up every time. And so I was leaving that day.

This is day one of my job. I was leaving. I was about to get on the tube. And I got a call. I picked up. And I was like, it was my manager. She said, I'm really sorry, we don't want you to come back tomorrow. So I lasted one day.

I mean, it's just horrendous. So at that point, I was like, hmm, don't think nine to, like, this office jobs for me. And again, I'd always sort of been pigeonholed as like, not academic. Like, I need to do something different in the entertainment world. And luckily, Made in Chelsea came along. And obviously I know people have the preconceptions about Made in Chelsea and it's reality TV and it's a bunch of posh 20-year-olds. I love it. Still watch it. Age 47.

How good is it now? It's, uh, do you mean that as in like, isn't it great? I think it's amazing now. Do you? Oh, I think your era was the best era, but I'm still really enjoying it. I'm thrilled that you say that. Oh my gosh, 100%. But I think maybe it's because I'm so much. I know, I really can't identify.

Yes. Anyway, sorry. Sorry, okay. But you're amongst friends here. I love it. I love it. I still watch every night. Jamie's like, please, can you turn off? I'm so happy you still watch it.

Yeah. Oh, jazz and jewels. I love them. Yes. I love them. I'm rooting for them as just like the greatest friends. Anyway, we digress. So I went on to Made in Chelsea and, you know, it felt like an easy option.

It was in the entertainment world. It's what my dad and my family had always said that, you know, that's what I should be doing. Sorry, I do want to just stress that my parents didn't, like, push me to do anything. They are amazing. Yes, that's coming across loud and clear. Okay, great. It really is. Like, your parents are amazing, were amazing.

And they come across like that on the show as well. Yes, yeah. And, well, yes, totally just let me set your mind at ease there. Well, then, they'll be listening. I mean, that's so big. And I went and I did Maiden Chelsea, and obviously... Maid in Chelsea is Maid in Chelsea. And, you know, I've met Jamie and I now do podcasting and all of these amazing opportunities have, you know, and now I'm doing Raising Chelsea.

And so I'm so grateful for that. But I do, a failure of mine is I wish I set myself those boundaries to have even tried. I just copped at the first hurdle. I think you're being really hard on yourself. And I think the thing that it's reminding me of is a very early interview I did on How to Fail with Dolly Alderton, who actually also started. out her career on Maiden Jelsea. And she was talking about her parents and how much they love her

and how much they believed and still believed that she is capable of anything, whether she wants to be Prime Minister or a Nuclear Scientist or the incredible screenwriter and author that she is. They just loved her so much, which is the primary thing that a parent should do. And her point was that that was so wonderful, but it equips you quite badly for the harsh realities of the real world outside of your front door.

And I wonder if you relate to that. Like actually at home, it was sort of wonderful to be in this boundaryless bubble of parental love. But was it when you confronted the real world that that was trickier? Yeah, massively. Like I remember core memories of mine were my parents sort of saying to, you know, their friends. And I was so little, but I was just listening. as you do. And it's so interesting

looking back at that at how much we absorb when we're younger. I remember them saying like, Sophie's Stephanie going to be on stage one day, you know, things like that. Yes.

And when I went to the audition and I could instantly see when I was doing the audition, I could instantly see they were like, you're rubbish. Or they were just like, no, you know.

And I didn't, I wasn't equipped for that. I was like, what? Surely you're going to cast me. Yes. Which, you know, if I'd had that sort of

sort of like, it's going to be tough. You've got to be resilient. You're going to have rejection. It's a really hard industry. Maybe I would have been more equipped to have, I would have had more tenacity maybe. I also think that the labels we give ourselves or society gives us or our families give us, the one who's going to be on stage, the one who's not academic. In a way, whilst they can be very loving and very supportive, they also make you feel like a failure if you don't live up to that. But it's ultimately someone else's label. Yeah, it's so true. It's funny because I do believe that I always wanted to be in entertainment in some way. But it's funny, like, so many people, you know, grew up thinking, I want to be a doctor or I want

to be a ballet dancer, I want to be a vet. And it's like, did we think that? At what stage did we think that or did somebody else, you know, will we pigeonhole to that? Exactly. Now, very often people who struggle with boundaries, and I count myself in this category, become people-pleases. Yeah. To an extreme that means that they forget their own needs in the mix of trying to please others. Did you have that experience? Yes, massively. I think not so much in my early days, but particularly when Jamie and I, you know, we started the podcast, we, I really lost the sense of boundaries then.

And I was very, you know, I'm married to somebody who is literally the king of no boundaries. He has no boundaries. He's like, cameras, follow me in while I go to the loo. Like, there's no boundaries. And I think actually marrying him or even being in a relationship with him really made me realize how much I need boundaries. You know, he's a thorough extrovert. He thrives and is energized by socializing, entertaining, being with people. people 24-7, I'm definitely introvert, extrovert, and I really recharge by having those moments

to myself. I do. And so I think in the early stages of our relationship, and particularly when we first started the podcast, I was, you know, and he will say this too, I was sort of dragged along with him. I don't know how he survives with the amount of stuff he does. And I was very much like, whoa, I'm not surviving. I was really bad now, really exhausted.

And I was just saying yes to everything. Because you didn't want to let him down? Yeah, because I didn't want to let him down, but also because I didn't know myself. I didn't know how I recharged. I didn't know what my boundaries were. I just thought, these are all amazing opportunities. I surely want to be doing them.

And now I know myself more. Like, yes, I can do them, but I need to have that downtime. I need to have a moment of myself to breathe. Like, I can't, I'm not as high energy as him. Ah, where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be. This winter, stay warm.

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After 19 years, they're back. Frankie Munis, Brian Cranston and the rest of the family reunite in Malcolm in the middle, life's still unfair. After 10 years avoiding them how and lowest demand Malcolm be at their anniversary party, pulling him straight back into their chaos. Malcolm in the middle, life's still unfair. A special four-part event, streaming April 10th on Hulu on Disney Plus. How did you get to know yourself? Wow, it's still getting to know myself, Elizabeth. It's a long old process.

Me too. When we got engaged and started the wedding process, I always said to Jamie and he'll say this as well. And I love my husband so much and he's amazing. So I don't want to sound like I'm bashing him either. But he always wanted this huge big white wedding. Loads of people. He wanted to walk down the aisle himself in a white suit. And I said to him straight away, I want to get married with 20 people with my feet in the sand.

I didn't want, you know, I don't like birthday parties. I, it's funny because I obviously do the podcast and when I'm in the work environment, I can do it. But in my private time, I'm actually quite a private person. I don't love being the center of attention. And when we were getting married, he was very much like, this is the big white wedding. This is what everyone dreams of. And everyone was saying it to me. It wasn't just him.

You know, everyone, God, you're living the dream. And we've grown up thinking that women want this big white wedding and we want to have our moment. But I was incredibly overwhelmed. I found it really overwhelming, which then caused me to have massive anxiety. And obviously the podcast, you know, we're so lucky that so many people were so interested in it. But it became like a big spectacle, weirdly. And that, you know, made me have imposter syndrome. And I just, I was really struggling with massive overwhelm and anxiety.

I was looking around thinking, everyone is so. excited for me. Everyone is like behind us. Everyone's rooting for us. I'm going to have this incredible wedding of people's dreams like the fairy tale wedding. Why, why am I not able to cope with this? And my anxiety got so bad that I went and spoke to a therapist and they said, I think we need to get you tested for ADHD if you ever been tested for it. And lo and behold, I have ADHD. And I know it's, I know everyone talks about ADHD and I know it's, it, you know it's, it, you you know, it's a bit of a buzzword at the moment. But having gone through what I've gone through

and everyone handles it differently, like now I know I have ADHD, it does make a lot of sense. And it is really tough when, you know, to manage. If you do have it and you've been diagnosed with it, it is hard when you've got it. And so, yeah, I found the wedding and all of the chaos and just all of it incredibly overwhelming.

And yeah. It was like a crazy time. And that is actually one of my failures because had I been diagnosed with ADHD earlier, I would have been able to understand and have more compassion for myself. And it's really sad for me to look back at our wedding because it was, you know, in so many ways the best day of my life. And I should have enjoyed it so much. But I was just really struggling and I didn't cope as well as I could have done because I didn't know what was wrong with me. Thank you so much for opening up about that.

And we will come on to your ADHD next, because as you say, it is your second failure, the late diagnosis of it. I think so many people relate and do relate when you take the risk of opening up about these things that you feel are uniquely your own. You described it as having imposter syndrome about your own wedding. And actually, that's why your podcasting is so great because you say the things that so many other people are secretly feeling. and that is the antidote to shame is sharing. So thank you for opening up. I wonder if I could ask you potentially a tricky question. In the run-up to the wedding, how bad did it get?

Did you think at any point, I'm going to have to call this off? I can't cope. Weirdly, I think the fact that I didn't think that was an option was what caused the anxiety to spiral. I just felt like I was, I held it all in because I was so confused why I couldn't cope with this, you know, as I said, I'd always wanted to be an entertainment. I wanted to be on stage. I wanted to be an actor. Like, why could I not cope with all of this attention or all of the, you know, planning a wedding? We did a live show a month before our wedding,

you know, all of those things. I couldn't understand why I wasn't managing. So I held it all in because I was so embarrassed. I thought there was something wrong with me. And I think the fact I didn't speak about it and I didn't say, I'm actually really struggling with this. I'm actually really struggling with this. actually feeling really anxious about this. I actually don't want this enormous 250 people wedding. I want to just go away and get married on a beach with bare fee. The fact I didn't say those things made me worse. Yes.

Looking back on your wedding day now, how do you feel about it when you look at photos? I feel sad looking back at it because I can see that I was just struggling. Yeah, I was so overwhelmed. I was really burnt out. I was just like, whoa, what is going on? So I have compassion looking back on it now. But like that's only been since, you know, I got diagnosed. I've understood it.

I've unpacked it. You know, I had to, I did a lot of work on myself after my wedding. Because again, it was like a shock. I couldn't understand what I was feeling. Yes. I'm not suggesting that you do this for a minute, but I was married before. And I had the conventional white wedding, 80 to 100 people with my ex. husband and I felt not as happy as I thought I should have felt. And obviously I was marrying

the wrong person, but also there was a degree of overwhelm that I can completely relate to. And when I got married to Justin, my now husband, it was during the pandemic and it was literally him and me, two registrars, my best friend and her then husband. And it was the most romantic thing ever. And I think you and Jamie should renew your vows. That's what I think you should do. Honestly, I really do, too. Yes. I think about it all the time. Do you? I think about it all. I've said it to him. But then he's like, yeah, yeah, we'll make it into a huge thing. No, no. I don't want cameras there, Jamie. No, that's the point. I want my feet in the sand. I want Sophie's feet in the sand. Okay. Thank you so much for talking about that. Let's talk about your diagnosis for ADHD.

So how old were you when you got this diagnosis? So I was 28. It was just after my wedding that I went and got diagnosed and I was like, oh. And when we unpacked it and I learned about it, I was like, this makes so much sense. Like, I've always struggled, like, regulating my emotions, severe overwhelm. You know, Jamie Sweet's part having ADHD, which is crazy having two people married who both have quite severe ADHD. And we have quite different types of it. Interesting. His is like, you know, hyperactive. He's energy on the go. He's du-da-do-fixation. Mine is like, overwhelm. I could have a do-lis that's three pages long and I will just stare at it and end up doing the complete opposite.

So yeah, I got diagnosed when I was 28 just after the wedding and I, it just made everything like, oh, I get it now. And it made me able to look at me and be like, I feel, you know, I have compassion. Yes. And how does it make sense of some of the things that you experience? So you mentioned in your email to me, that idea of feeling almost embarrassed that didn't progress academically the way that you could have done. Is that part of how you experience ADHD? I actually did quite well. Like I did. Yeah, I was about to say, two one, hello.

Two one. I got all A is and A stars where you say C is and A levels. But again, I just, I was able to hyperfixate and revise. But in lessons, I was never very good with vocabulary. I always got my words muddled up. And I would like stumble or talk really quickly. And I still do it now and weirdly our podcast people seem to find that really funny but that's which is so lovely because it's always been something that I was quite insecure about you know like I hate playing ballgames like if someone puts a ballgame I actually get in a mood I'm like I hate you for suggesting that we should play a ballgame because I will not understand it I won't understand the instructions because my brain can't concentrate on what they're telling me yes I is something that I'm insecure

of like doing something like this, it's weirdly something that I become nervous about because I just sometimes struggle to get the words out and it's because my brain's just like, I don't have ADHD, but I have that thing of like, I can't think what word to use next. And also I...

Elizabeth, you are so... I promise it. That's so lovely of you, but like... You're the opposite of that. Thank you. But I feel that about you. And I just want you to know that, even though it might feel sort of chaotic

and overwhelming in your head. You don't come across like that ever. Wow. Ever. Yes. Are you sure? I'm positive. I mean, I don't like see you every night

or wake up with you every morning. Sorry, Jamie. But my experience of you having listened to your podcast and watched you on TV and now meeting you again now and like any time I've met you in the past, I just, I really would love to release you from that sense of imposter likes.

That's so nice to hear. Thank you. Of course. When we, started this podcast and you said, does anyone ever bring notes? The person that I thought of was Gina Davis, the actress, and she came on the podcast. And she was diagnosed with ADHD in later life as well. Me and her. And the other person was Nicole Scherzinger. I love. There we go. I want to hear all about that. I'm listening to that straight away. And what, they needed

the notes because they couldn't think of the things to say. Because I was fearful, I was like, I might come into this and then it's all just air. Yes. And now I don't know what Nicole Scherzinger, why she was bringing notes. In fact, I find it's like a real compliment if someone has really thought that much about it. But I think, yes, I think it's that thing of wanting to communicate the truth of yourself

and potentially being fearful that you're not going to do a good enough job. Yeah, it's like when you walk out a room and you're like, oh my God, I want to say all of those things because you're in an argument and you leave that finish the argument. I'm like, I should go into an argument with notes because I always walk out of it.

I'm like, I could have won that argument, but I forgot every. that I wanted to say. I feel like you win most arguments for Jamie though. What am I talking about? Talking about Jamie and ADHD and the fact that he lives with it too, how easy have you found it to open up to Jamie about the things that you were feeling and are feeling? Because I imagine in the run-up to the wedding that was probably quite tricky.

It was really tricky and he will say this openly like he couldn't understand it. He kept saying, what are you talking about? This is amazing. You know, it's all he'd ever wanted. Which obviously, sadly, like, just made me feel even more, you know, upset and confused and isolated. But now we've both sort of gone to therapy. We've spoken about it before. We've done couple's therapy, which we love.

And he got diagnosed with the same doctor that diagnosed me after me. So he was able to really understand about ADHD. and how it shows up with people differently. And he can really see it now. We've really understood each other more and we've worked on ourselves together and separately and to be able to communicate more and understand it because it is confusing and everyone feels things differently

and like he doesn't understand a lot of the way I feel. Like I don't understand a lot of the way he feels. Yes. So you go to a therapist, but you also, I read somewhere, go to a psychic once a year. We love a psychic. Jamie actually was doing secret psychic sessions without telling me.

He became really obsessed with the psychic. He was doing monthly, it was like a therapy. He was monthly psychic sessions. Wow. I've always gone to psychics. Both of my parents went to psychic. So even as a little girl, I used to go and like sit in the room and my mom would go to the psychic.

She lived in this little tiny house and she smoked. Honestly, she chain smoked and the house was like, my eyes would sting going into there. And I used to sit in her living, like the waiting room while my mom would have psychic reading. We love them. Your final failure is fear of failure as a mother. Tell me about this.

Like when did this fear start? Has it been ever present? Really weirdly, it started without knowing when I got diagnosed with ADHD. I said to him, how have I gone my whole life without getting diagnosed? And he said, a lot of women get diagnosed later in life, particularly new moms. And I said, really? why and he said they come in

they really struggle becoming new parents they feel it they find it so overwhelming and they get recommended to come and you know and they've been going their whole eyes with undiagnosed ADHD and once they know that they can sort of use the tools to help them be present with their children

and don't become so overwhelmed and that even though I only I got diagnosed with an hour's 28 and I wasn't thinking about children then I was so far off it it really stuck in my mind So when I became pregnant, I kept thinking my head, you know, it was just a thought in the back of my head like, you're really going to struggle. You're really going to struggle. And I think that's why I was anxious my whole pregnancy, which, God, it really comes off in the show. Oh, but again, it's so relatable. I think, you know, whether you've been told that or not, I think when you're pregnant for the first time, it's so many unknowns. You don't, you know, and you're responsible for this little huge.

growing inside you. I mean, like, everything, I drank a coffee and I'd be like, should I drank a coffee, you know? But I think that's where the fear came from. And of course, it's still with me all the time. I try and be as present as I can be. And I mean, I will say, I do, I'm really pleasantly surprised. I do feel like Ziggy is my calm. And I actually, when I'm with him, I don't really think about anything else. I'm really able to be present with him. you know he keeps me I feel my calmest when I'm with him which is so lovely and you know such a amazing surprise because I didn't expect it to be like that do you feel good enough as a mother generally no does anyone that's such an interesting question it's such a deep question

yeah there are moments I feel really proud of myself and there are moments I feel good enough But I do think I do always have imposter syndrome. And maybe even as a mother, you know, I'm back to work now. And I really struggle with mum guilt. Well, the good news is that you're not an arrogant narcissist. The poignant news is so many people will look at you and think rightly how amazing you are. And for me, life has been a process of, of, of gradually building on low self-esteem.

And I wish that for you too, because from what I've seen on screen, you are an amazing parent. And Ziggy is a very contented little baby because he can clearly feel the safety of his parents' love. What kind of parent do you think you each are, you and Jamie? I feel content being a mother

And of course I have those doubts in my mind. And of course I worry and I have mum girl and all of those things. But I do think that is normal. And I hope and I feel like I'm doing a good job. He's a very happy, happy boy and he's so loved. I think I will be, oh God, I think I'll be really weak and just let him do anything. I'm just obsessed. I honestly, I always said to Jamie, I was like, your relationship with your mom's a bit weird.

Like she loves you a bit too much and you love her a bit too much. you love her a bit too much. And now I'm a mum to a boy. I'm like, I get it. I get it, honestly. Do you think Jamie will be the disciplinarian? I think he will be. Stop it.

I can't even imagine that. I think he will be. I know. I'm shocked too. But I promise you, I think he's going to have to be because I'm not going to be. And what's Ziggy like? Like, what's his character like? He's very smiley.

He's very, he's so chilled. I'm so surprised. I thought he'd be crazy and so energetic, but he's a chiller. Like, touch word. Yeah. So far. He's just cooching. He just loves it.

I mean, looking back at your journey, can you imagine if someone had said to you, this guy, Jamie, with the peroxide hair, that you've just crossed past with as on Maiden Chelsea. Who cheats on everyone. Yes. Exactly. I mean, what did you first think when you first saw Jamie?

Oh my goodness. I didn't like him. I was friends with his ex-girlfriend, and he was not treating her very well. So I was like, naturally, I really don't like this guy. I thought he was very arrogant. But I did think he was very funny. Okay.

And I very quickly, we went away to Croatia, like, very early on in Made in Chelsea. And we became such good runs. I mean, we were like sharing that in a non-romantic way. But we were like, join in the head. We became really close. When was the first time you started to feel romantic towards him? Well, it's funny because looking back at it, even in Croatia, where we were both in relationships with people, everyone was like, you know,

my best friend Melissa, she was like, you guys are in love with each other. Like, there's something really weird going on. I was like, stop it. No, we're not. And then we, like, used to call each other and see each other the whole time even after that. But I think the first time we started, or I started feeding things for him was in Cape Town because everyone said to me, he really likes you. And even though I was saying, no, he doesn't, he doesn't. I kind of, you know when you know.

And I was like, oh, God, I think I feel the same. But I just kept it all in. And I got to see it all on E4. If you want to watch him find out what I haven't. I know. And he saw you in this bikini and he was like, oh my God, I can't get her out of my mind. He was like, she's a woman. I'm like, well, what did you think I was before?

Yeah. Also, I have the privilege of having been around when you and Jamie were getting really serious. Do you remember? You sent me a text. Oh, my God. This is real tea. This isn't real. Can we talk about it?

Yes, we can. Okay. What exactly happened? So what happened was you and Jamie were boyfriend and girlfriend, but it was still quite early days. Very early. And I think it was like, I was trying to think about it. It was either 2018 or, no, it was 2019. Yeah.

And Jamie came and did a live How to Fail show with me in Bath. And he came with Penny, his mom. Yes. And we went for a pub dinner before the show. and Jamie seemed really off because normally he's so high energy and charismatic and just adorable and like radiates positivity

and there was, he was still all of that but there was something. I was like, what's wrong? He said I've just had a massive row with Sophie. I was like, I've got to sort this out before we go on stage. You were like, do not ruin my show. Pull it together. First ever to, I'm like, come on Jamie.

I said, what went wrong? and he said that, I don't know if this is true, sorry. He said that he'd like stupidly DM someone on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. I was like, you absolute idiot. Why did you do that? He was like, I don't know. I think I'm too needy.

And I just love Sophie so much and I need her to know. And he was so upset. I'd never seen him like that. And you and I had never met. Never met. But I voice noted you on Instagram. I guess you did. You were like, you were like, Sophie.

He does love you. I promise you. I was like, oh my goodness. Because they're voidslifting me. Jamie was like, she'll really like, she'll really take it from you. Like, she'll really respect what you say. And you were away somewhere. You were in South America.

Yes. Yes. Anyway, it was such an overstep on Waiperham. I'm so sorry. But genuinely, I'd never seen him so devastated. I think of what got us back together. So we wouldn't have sick if it wasn't. Sorry.

It's because of me. Anyway, I've loved being a tight. part of your relationship. And I wanted to say something to you, which is that Jamie came on how to fail initially for his episode very early on. I think it was 2018. And one of his failures was his failure to have a long-term relationship at the age of 30. And we spoke a lot about that. And I just think it's so beautiful to see where you both are now. And Sophie, I have a little surprise for you, which is that you're going to hear something now that we're going to play through the speakers in the studio and it's just for you.

This is Jamie here, Sophie's husband. And I know as Sophie hears my voice, she'll be cringing because she'll be so worried what I'm about to say. So Sophie, I apologize, I know sometimes you don't like outward emotion, but here it is for you. Sophie and I met on a TV show called Maiden Chelsea. and I think without knowing it I craved normalness and this sounds strange but my first impression was Sophie

was she was so normal in the best way and in that world of entertainment and reality TV that's all you ever want and Sophie was that for me Sophie made me realise that being me was enough I don't think I've ever told of that

the most attractive thing I realise now about her is that she's an amazing mum. Now, if there's one thing that I could change about her and as I'm saying this, you'll be malving it. But it's probably her temper. That sounds so bad.

But Sophie can go from naught to 100 within the space of a second. There's no gearing up, there's no warming up, it's straight there, which is also the fiery side of her that I love, but also it is, you know, a wild ride, occasionally when you're all expecting it. But everything else about her overshadows any sort of temper that she can have.

And normally, I deserve most of it, if I'm totally honest. Getting married to Sophie is the best decision I've ever made in my entire life. And I feel lucky every day. Yes, we argue. Yes, we have our ups and downs. Yes, I probably annoy her to the end of the earth. but we truly are best friends. Sophie, I love you.

I'm so proud of you. And you're the greatest. And what's even more exciting is it's just the beginning of everything. Okay, that was cheesy enough. I hope you're having a good episode. Bye-bye. Oh my goodness. That is so...

I'm crying. I love you. I feel so pretty much. Oh my gosh. I can't give of that lovely, lovely no. That is so sweet. No, he's so sweet. You deserve that every single day. I'll send it to you. You can make it your ringtone.

I'll just, I'll put that as a loop, and I'll just go to see. Because at the moment, I go to sleep listening to Harry Potter the Philosopher's Stone on repeat, just the first book every night. So I'm going to change it to that. Change it to this. Oh, that's so lovely. And let it go in. Let that soak in, like how much you are loved. Not just by Jamie, but also by all of your listeners and viewers, all of your fans, your son.

Sophia Boo, thank you so, so much for making Harry to fail your first ever solo podcast interview. We love you. Thank you so much. Love you. Now, just before you go, I have some very exciting news. My great friend Dan Jones, who you'll know as the host of This Is History, he's a phenomenal historian and novelist, although I don't really like to tell him that because he's also very smug.

Anyway, the two of us have known each other for years. and we've got a new podcast. I know, sound the history alarm, we're extremely excited about it. It's called History's Greatest Fails. See what we did there? And Dan and I will discuss, you guessed it, some of the biggest failures in history.

We'll be chatting about everything from failed romance, think Henry VIII and Ambo Lin, Anthony and Cleopatra, as well as overlooked women like Ada Lovelace. And we'll be chatting about Richard III and happy accidents in history. Go and search for history's greatest fails

wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.