How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Vicky Pattison - ‘You don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft’

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Vicky Pattison was 22 when her life changed and she was cast in reality TV show Geordie Shore. She was on the show for nine seasons between 2011 and 2014, during which time the cameras followed her falling in love, becoming engaged, then breaking up. Now 37, Pattison has rarely been off our screens - whether it’s as a finalist on Celebrity Masterchef or winning I’m A Celebrity in 2015. She’s a radio presenter on the Heart network, is fronting a new Channel 4 dating show called The Honesty Box and has a new podcast, Get A Grip, which she co-hosts with Angela Scanlon. In this candid episode, Vicky talks openly about her lifetime struggle with PMDD and how it affects her every day, fighting the fear of becoming an alcoholic and how so much has changed since the days of Geordie Shore. This bonus episode is brought to you by @arlalactoFREE - all the taste, easier to digest. Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Studio and Mix Engineer: Matias Torres Sole & Gulliver Lawrence-Tickell Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This bonus episode of How to Fail is brought to you by Ala Lacto Free, delicious dairy with all of the taste, none of the lactose. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that redefines failure as data acquisition. There is no such thing as a mistake if there's a lesson wrapped up in it. You don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft. I was a mess at 30. I'm 37 and I'm still not there. I've got to the point where I've shared so much, like I just don't know where that line is. Vicki Patterson was 22 when her life changed and producers cast her in a reality TV program called Geordie Shaw. She was on the show for nine seasons between 2011 and 2014, during

which time the cameras followed her falling in love, becoming engaged, then breaking up with her then-fiance. Patterson was an instant hit with the viewers, becoming known for her humour, her sometimes chaotic personal life, and her vocabulary. Her catchphrase, Tachon, became a new entry in the Collins Dictionary. But this was just one part of her TV career. Now 37, Patterson, who studied drama at Liverpool John Moores University, has rarely been off our screens, whether it's getting rave reviews for her caramelised apples

as a finalist on Celebrity MasterChef or winning I'm a Celebrity in 2015, Patterson has become a beloved figure in our national culture. Along the way, she's also published bestselling memoirs and novels built up an Instagram following of over five million and campaigned for wider recognition of women's health issues. She's now a radio presenter on the Heart Network and is about to front a new Channel 4 dating show called The Honesty Box and a new podcast, Get a Grip with Angela Scanlon. I'm not kidding when I say I always wanted to be famous, she wrote in her 2014 memoir,

Nothing But The Truth. I come from a family of attention seekers. When we get the karaoke system out on Christmas day, it's like the Hunger Games. Vicki Patterson, welcome to How To Fail. I learned something about myself, didn't I, little intro? Did you? Yeah. I thought I'd tell everyone I did 10 series of Geordie Shaw, but it was just the nine. Oh, well, there you go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You've outed us. The impact felt like 10. God, it felt like 20. Still does feel like 20. You poor little body. Does it? How did it feel? Actually, I was aware when I was reading out that introduction in front of you, that I started off with something that you have worked really hard to become more than. Yeah. And I hope that was okay.

No, please, I don't feel any type of way. It is still one of the things that I get recognized for the most, Jodie Shaw. And ultimately that does make sense. Like, I spent five years of my life doing it, you know. It's a show that's still repeated, that's still doing the rounds. And I've been really honest about my conflicted feelings, about my time spent on Geordie Shore, you know. They were my formative years, like who hasn't made mistakes and done silly things that they probably wish they hadn't in their 20s.

Mine were just all televised. And I still maintain that I probably didn't have the skills as a young lass in her early 20s to navigate everything that was going on. So I'd like to think I've done a lot since then, I've changed, I've grown up, I've worked on myself. But do I mind when people like quote bits back to us and stuff like, no, it was still a part of my life. And let's be real, mate, I wouldn't be where I was without Jodie Shaw. You know, I've got to recognise that. And I'm very grateful to everything that Shaw, that opportunity MTV gave to us. And I think, I mean, I would find it so difficult if my twenties were played out on screen. Oh mate, actually, like I was still just a kid, like figuring it out, you know. Um, and I thought I would really mourn the loss of me twenties. I think like most women have a fear of getting older.

This amazing thing happened when I hit me thirties. I just loved them. Like I loved them. Like I stressed less about what everyone thought. Still, habitual people, please don't get us wrong, but it was alleviated slightly. I learned to accept myself for everything I was and everything I wasn't. I just, I don't know, felt a sense of liberation and comfort and acceptance came with me. 30s, I never had with me 20s.

It's almost made me less terrified about the impending 40s. Let me tell you, if you think your 30s are good, your 40s are amazing. My mum says things like this all the time. Yes. Bring it on. Now, does it help being married to someone who understands reality TV? Because your husband was in The Only Way as Essex. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a common misconception. Like, Urk, bless his heart, was in TOWIE for five minutes. Like, blink and you would have missed him. was in the only, like was in TOWIE for five minutes, like blink and you would have missed him. That was a real bone of contention for him.

But I always think he was too nice for reality TV. And that is not me being judgmental or in any way disparaging about people who are successful within reality TV because I myself was one of them. But he is just the kindest guy. And I don't think that was a bad thing. I don't think that was his journey.

What Erkan is, is just incredibly kind and supportive and thoughtful and patient and all the things actually that I probably wish I was more of. Vicky what a useful thing to say. No I always get a little bit upset when I talk about Erkan because I waited a long time for him, for somebody who was all those things. All the things that actually I didn't know I needed and probably in my teens or my twenties would have dismissed, you know, or he's too nice for me or I'll chew him up and spit him out. Like, you know, but actually he's been the best thing that's ever happened to us. So, you know, but actually he's been the best thing that's ever happened to us.

So, you know, he, he just kind for loads of other reasons and understanding for loads of other reasons. He didn't have to be in reality TV too. I think kindness is the most important quality. And like you, I think it took me a long time to put that at the top of the list for a romantic partner. There were tissues just there. Yeah, I think I'm right there. You did say, you did say I'm going to cry. I was really hoping, oh gosh no, ruining the place. I was really hoping I would have gone

a little bit further in before the war. No, you're fine. You're fine. And tell me a bit about that thing that you wrote in your memoir about always wanting to be famous. So where did you get your idea of fame from? Was it watching TV as a kid? Yeah, I think my family are all the same. And actually, I think more than anything less about the fame, I just wanted to be successful. It didn't matter to me how I got there, whether it was, you know, reality TV or the radio or the TV or writing books or any sort of thing. I just wanted to be successful. Let's get on to your first failure because your failures are so good and I know that a lot of the things that we've touched on in the introduction, we're also going to get deeper on in the failures. Your first failure is your failure to drive.

Crap. So you've never passed your test? Never. I've never even taken a proper test. Okay. Tell me more. Why? So it will surprise absolutely no one to know who's familiar with my previous work that when I was younger and everyone else was like learning to drive and stuff, I was just quite drunk all the time. I was from about 16, 17 going out all the time, working in bars and nightclubs. And it just wasn't a priority of mine to learn to drive at all.

My priority was always just having a good time. And then at 18, moved to Liverpool to go to uni, lived in the city centre. Everything was walking distance again, so much fun to be had. Like getting me provisional license was just not top of the agenda, you know? It was like three Jagerbombs for a fiver and still dropping on bars, you know? Kissing scouse boys. I loved it all. It was exciting. And then left uni. And then I, I really was under the impression, I think I've probably watched too many romcoms, but I thought you left uni and like, as you are standing afterwards with your cap and gown somebody walked up to you and was like, I'm from so and so company. We can't wait

to hire you. Do you know what I mean? One of those and you moved off to a city and got a high flying job and started a complicated relationship with a gorgeous mysterious man across the way. Obviously, played by Harrison Ford. Done. Tick! And it wasn't like that. There was 300,000 graduates my year for 30,000 graduate jobs. So the vast majority of who were just rendered a little bit redundant. So me and me pal were like, right, we are going to have six months of fun before we get our heads down and join the rat race and be grownups. And we moved to Ibiza and we lived the best time. Like we were on the bones of our arse mate,

but we just had so much fun and like, oh, used to blab away and all the great nights. And I just loved it. Came home and within a couple of weeks had got found for Jody Shaw. It just feels like I've been on this real, like conveyor belt, this like super fast hamster wheel, whatever you want to call it. And driving has never really been a priority of mine. And then a couple

years ago, I say a couple years ago, it's probably 10 now, I don't know where the time goes. But I did a driving show with E4 called Celebrity Driving School. Don't pan that to us and say you watched it. Nobody fucking did. I saw the trailers. I did see the trailers. Oh yeah, it was a bit of a swing and a miss that one. So yeah, they're all going to be hits. Um, but yeah, so I remember making that in my head, I'm making a TV show, you know?

Um, but in the instructor's head, I was learning to drive and we had very different ideas about what we were doing. Um, and out of like 16 celebs or something, I was the to drive and we had very different ideas about what we were doing. And out of like 16 celebs or something, I was the only one that they wouldn't let sit their driving test. They wouldn't even let you sit it? No, they would not. He called my driving style, get on this, highly unpredictable and very dangerous. He said I was not only a hazard of myself, but others and that I would never pass my driving test. Oh my gosh. If you hadn't already written your memoir, I'd say like a hazard to yourself and others would be a great title. That's savage. There's plenty of time yet, but I'm one of them. When you were behind the wheel of the car, did you feel out of control? So the thing is, I'm probably undiagnosed ADHD in fairness. It would explain a lot. And I subsequently

am either like hyper-focused or completely disinterested. And I can get distracted very easily as well. And so subsequently, like I'd be driving and I would be really trying at first to listen to him and watch the cars and be observant and all those things that are necessary to be a good and safe driver and then there'd be a dog and I just went oh there's a dog and I'm like oh yeah sorry so I and like he wasn't a bad guy who's doing his best and he probably said what he said out of complete frustration but it's never left us it's never left us and I've tried left us. And I've tried a couple of times since, you know, to like do an intensive course or get a driving instructor locally. It's just always

ended in not, I think, disaster is hyperbolic, but close. It's so interesting what you say about that phrase or those phrases never having left you. Because I think there is something for women who've grown up in a certain culture, in a certain decade, when they've come of age where social conditioning wasn't often that friendly towards women having their own agency. And so we become people pleasers, as you mentioned. And then someone can say something that to them, they won't even think twice about. Very cavalier and thrall-y. Yes, but we internalize it so deeply. Yeah.

Can you recognize that in yourself? I hold on to everything, absolutely everything. And like even going back to when I was on Jodie Shaw and I was a very divisive and, you know, quite outrageous character, a caricature of myself, if you will. Um, the things that people would write about me or say about me, whether it be comments online or the press, I still remember them. And then like my deepest, darkest moments, you know, that three o'clock in the

morning when you can't sleep, like I get treated to a highlight reel of that. You know, had this one really horrible ex-boyfriend who used to say to me, you, that's unfair, we were just, we were toxic together. But he used to say, you think you're Vicky from the jungle, but I know you're Vicky from Geordie Shaw. And I think that was his way of reminding me of what people potentially saw me as

and just basically honing in on me deepest darkness for ya and really giving that a platform. So yeah, I do think sometimes we are we're the harshest critics aren't we? That is so obsessing Vicky, and I'm so sorry you had to bear the brunt of that because for me that speaks of someone who is so insecure in themselves that they have to lash out at someone else who they perceive to be more successful and powerful than them and I'm sorry that you had to hear that.

Thank you honestly it was doomed to fail that one. I probably wasn't great either. And we can recognise all of that now. Do you know what I mean? High-sights are a really nice thing, but yeah, you don't let go of stuff like that in a hurry. Like I say, I dwell on it. Yes. We were chatting beforehand about the fact that we're both Scorpios, November Scorpios, and we will bear lifelong grudges. Oh, never forgive or forget. Yeah. That's for the week. I'm like Arya Stark in Game of Thrones.

I just have a list of names. I still remember them. Can we talk a little bit about the drinking years? Because you've spoken about them so openly and so movingly in the past, particularly as it pertains to your dad and the documentary. Yeah, the tissues are there on the left. Just look at all the tissues there, Elizabeth. This incredibly powerful documentary you did with your dad, examining his alcoholism.

And I know that we started off talking about a failure around a driving test, but I was so intrigued that you explained that by saying there were these kind of lost years for me. How is your relationship with alcohol now? I think for a long time, I genuinely believed that I had this like predetermined destiny, this future that was completely outside of my control. And ultimately, because my dad was an addict and I was his daughter, and I was always told when I was growing up,

you're your dad's daughter, you're your dad's daughter. And again, people probably didn't understand how I was internalizing that and taking it, you know. But I just believed I was ultimately going to become an alcoholic like my dad. And I do have a very addictive personality, you know? So it was, for me, a foregone conclusion. And I wrestled with that for years. And you see a lot of that on Geordie Shore.

But now, through years of therapy, counselling, life coaching, personal training, working on myself, distancing myself, changing my lifestyle, changing the people that I spend time with, everything, I would describe my relationship with alcohol as healthy. But it's taken us the best part of 20 years to get there. And there's still a part of me that is afraid that old habits will die hard and I will end up like my dad. But I think that fear, that recognition is the thing that will stop me. At least I hope it is. That's when my dad told us himself, he said when we're making the documentary he went you're so worried and so scared of ending up like me and he says but you've got one thing that I

never had and he says I was never afraid of this. He says you are and you don't want to be like me and even though that's heartbreaking, because I want so much more for my dad, it is the truth and it is his reality. So, yeah, I would say I'm in a good place now. But I think when you've had, when you've been exposed to what I have as a child and as a young adult and even as an adult. When you have an alcoholic parent, you potentially live in fear of becoming the same. Because you've seen what it can do to a person and a family. And also like the pull is, I feel like for me, you know when you've had a hard day or someone, you know, there's a bad article or you're feeling overwhelmed or exhausted or overstimulated. My go-to was always alcohol. It's always like a medicinal thing, an emotional thing. But I've had to

work hard to remove that. But yeah, it does still scare us, man. You're so strong and so eloquent in your pain. And I really want to thank you hugely for sharing that. Oh, honestly, it's taken us years to understand my dad's illness. And that itself, like honestly, if I can implore any child of an alcoholic, any child of an addict who is struggling to understand, who has a complicated or strained relationship with a parent, like I would implore you to work hard to try and understand it. I for years was so mad at my dad, so mad at my dad that he and asked me

so these questions all the time like why doesn't he just love us enough to stop? But it's bigger than that and it's not that. And I think once you take the time to understand the illness, take the time to understand the illness then you do feel a sense that you give them grace, you give them grace but you also can't enable them, you've got to hold them accountable. It's finding the right balance isn't it? I feel really grateful that me and me dad were able to do the documentary and I was able to understand my relationship with alcohol and also understand his because it brought work fundamentally so much closer. It allowed me to exercise some compassion mate and realize potentially I had been enabling him you know. Feel that as a vulnerability

to addicts that sometimes gets overlooked in people's rush to have them condemned. You stop to realise there's a person behind it and there's probably something significant that sparked it, you know? Nobody wants to be an addict. And I think once you sort of understand that there is a real potential to enable. Oh, you've had a drink, it's fine. Don't worry, dad, I understand. God, I would have done the same. You're only human. And these things, even though you think you're helping them, you're not. Well, especially as a child, you want to normalise your parents behaviour as well. So that's, it must have been so difficult and it must continue to be. How is your dad doing?

Oh, and I see my dad so good. He's actually on the train down now to come and see us. Our relationship is great now. It used to be very strained, but it's brilliant. He says himself, he says he'll always be an alcoholic. Sometimes he's in recovery and he has beaten the illness. And sometimes he's not. It's not a linear thing. Can I ask you a really big question? Not that these ones haven't been big. Oh, this is just a warm-up, Elizabeth. Don't worry. It's something that I am really passionate about and you have been so open about and I've really respected that, which is the journey to being a parent, potentially. I've had loads of unsuccessful fertility treatment, basically, and I'm not a parent,

and I'm at peace with it, but I also went through egg freezing. I just don't want to put that bone of tissue. It's funny to me. Oh my darling. Are there any left? Oh no, I'm so sorry. I love you. You shared your egg freezing journey online, and I was so grateful to you for doing that

because people don't understand how invasive and emotional that is. And it's offered as this kind of cure for people who might not be sure about when they want to have a baby and feeling like the timing isn't right and actually there's just lots of complexity to it. And I just wondered, given everything that you have so beautifully shared about you and your dad and parenting and children, how much this plays in your mind? Oh mate, it's like right at the start of the documentary, I say, I think I was about 32 when I did The Dark, I'm 37 37 now, I say, I know I haven't had children or even entertained the idea of having children because I was so terrified believing that becoming an alcoholic

for me was a foregone conclusion and there was a huge genetic element to it, which I still believe there is. That I was just going to give birth to children who are fundamentally brought up like me. Oh, but you're not broken. I won't have you thinking that. Don't be sorry. I won't have you thinking that. You're so perfect. You are such a radiant shining being. And you are perfect in being the person that you are. That's so upsetting. I'm so sorry. No, and please don't, please don't apologize. I had to work through an awful lot. My house, like my mom and dad are the best and I just absolutely have to have that as a precursor to whatever I'm gonna say next.

And I had a really nice childhood with a happy home and a gorgeous family who loved me. But it was very different to what a lot of other children and families experience as their norm, do you know what I mean? Yeah. I grew up in a house where like, it was loud sometimes and it was scary sometimes. I don't know what type of parent I'm going to be, Elizabeth. I don't know what type of parent I'm going to be, Elizabeth. I don't know what one does.

But I have fears about the type of parent I could have been if I was still on the trajectory I was on from say 10 years ago. And that is, in my opinion, not someone who is fit to be a parent. I wasn't fit to be a parent. I wasn't fit to be a parent and it's took years of like work on myself to get myself to a place where I do believe I could actually be a nice mom. Yeah and the heartbreaking thing about that is like twofold. One is that why I get so upset when people remind me of who I used to be. Because I think if you knew why I'd worked so hard to get away from that,

you'd maybe give us a little bit of grace. But secondly, it's after doing all this work, putting in everything, you get to the point where your body is going to find it hard to give you a baby. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I just think it's really unfair on women. Like, we're just expected to have it all figured out by the age of 30. Yeah.

Like, fuck me, I was a mess at 30. I'm 37 and I'm still not there. Like, you know, and I just think the odds are totally stacked against her. To be able to be everything we want to be. And I thought by freezing me eggs and sharing me journey, I was potentially doing something responsible. I was giving women this alternative to fucking rushing and having a kid with the wrong bloke because you felt like this biological body clock was ticking. And I remained steadfast in that belief, but what I wasn't prepared for was the backlash. That came with it.

That shocked me too. The amount of people with no skin in our game who have opinions about what we should do with our bodies is shocking to me. I know. And like, I know this all like no uterus, no opinion is like gaining some traction quite rightly so again at the moment. And I believe that. But you know the hardest thing and you'll get this is when these opinions came from women. Yeah.

And I don't know why it hurts us more when women are disparaging about this, but it just does. For what it's worth, Vicky, there are two things I want to say to you. One is, I found it very moving when you said, I just wasn't convinced I'd be a good mother. And I think I had my time of thinking that too, because it wasn't happening for me. So then if you believe in the universe and things working out as they should, there was part of me that was like, why isn't this working out? Is it telling me something about how I'm not worthy of this? And the thing that helped me through that, and I know you have two beloved dogs, and I have a beloved cat, and I realized how I was with my cat, and I know that that sounds trivial or stupid, but honestly, I mean it really sincerely.

I see how you are with your dogs. That to me is the biggest sign that you are going to be an amazing parent, and I just want you to know that. Thank you. And the other thing that I want you to know is that if for whatever reason it doesn't happen for you, there's this amazing piece on the other side of it that I never believed existed, but I'm here now and I'm here to tell you that it is. And there are different ways of being a parent. But I just, I firmly believe in both of those things for you. That's really reassuring. And this is why I think we need more, like fertility needs

more sunlight. Totally. I love the way you put that. Canda, it needs more brilliant, brave women speaking about their alternative experiences. But the thing is, when you have these these really loud judgmental voices, you understand why people don't share. And it's because of stigma. It's because of fear of judgment. It's because actually it is such a hard, emotionally difficult thing to go through. You're so exhausted just by that output. Like to share it with anyone else feels impossible, but ultimately we need to get past that. We need to push past it. Otherwise we're never

going to get to a place where people understand it, where people understand these different roots to being a mother. Whether that be surrogacy, whether that be like egg freezing or adoption or actually choosing to not have kids. Like all these things are okay and they're beautiful, but people are scared to talk about them because of others' reactions and it's this cycle, isn't it? Hello there. Thank you so much for watching this powerful and moving episode. Now, I wanted to take a minute to talk about the episode sponsor, Arla Lacto Free. I believe wellness comes from the inside out. So you can do all the yoga or gym sessions you like, but ultimately what you eat is absolutely essential for feeling well and energized. The thing is, my dream Sunday morning is probably a big bowl of yogurt and berries followed

by thick slices of cheddar on a hot buttered crumpet. And my cat Huxley then licks the plate because he's a cat with great taste. What can the plate. But I'm also aware I can sometimes feel a little discomfort when digesting regular dairy. This is where Ala Lacto Free comes in to save the day. You really don't have to compromise on your favourites, because Ala Lacto Free has a delicious range of dairy products with all of the taste, none of the lactose, bringing joy and taste to healthy eating. To find out more, search for alalactofree.co.uk. So your second failure is your failure to be still, which is actually quite funny because you just

got up to go to the loo. But wait, it's deeper than that in that you thrive off being busy, as you said, and you find it hard to switch off. Yeah. In every sort of sense of the word, I find it hard to relax. So my husband and I haven't actually had a honeymoon. I left the wedding after two days to fly to Cyprus to make my new TV show that's coming out the honesty box. So like we never did the traditional tin cans on the back of the car right into the sunset thing, which I really wanted. And then since then there's just been no time. We made the dark, I got my job at heart. It's just been a bit of a roller coaster. So we are trying to find somewhere

for a honeymoon. And his idea of like honeymoon heaven is just like me and him on a beach with like a cocktail and a coconut and like the sanding between my toes. And I can do that for about 45 minutes. Okay. It's a long foot and fly for 45 minutes. Like I just, I feel like once I'm, fly for 45 minutes. Like I just, I feel like once I'm, I just feel like I get so, I feel trapped and I feel stressed and I feel stagnant very fast. I need to know, like I need to be working, I need to be doing. And a lot of it is, I think a lot of it is to, I honestly feel like unless I'm busy, unless I'm proving myself, I feel like somebody else is going to come along and do what I do, what better and everyone's going to forget about me.

And I have that desperate belief. But also I'm just really neurotic. And just a bit unhinged essentially. Where do you think that comes from? That belief that someone's going to come and make everyone forget you? I think for an awful long time, when I was on like Jodie Shaw and stuff like that,

I knew from like series one that I wasn't happy. It didn't matter to me how much of a success I knew from like series one that I wasn't happy. It didn't matter to me how much of a success the show was gonna become, how much of a cult following it was going to have. I knew that it wasn't serving me as a person. And even in those formative years, being quite young and just really inexperienced, I knew I wasn't happy mentally there.

I used to threaten to leave every series. This is it, I'm done. I'm gonna go knew I wasn't happy mentally there. I used to threaten to leave every series, this is it I'm done I'm gonna go I'm not happy I want a nice normal boyfriend I want to buy me one house I want to normal I wanted I wanted to get away from it you know and I would be always told whether it be by people at MTV or agents or whatever, like don't bite the hand that feeds you. There's nothing else for you out here. You've got it good. Like you should know where your bread's buttheads,

what you're gonna do outside of this. Does no one had any belief that there was anything else for me? And I say now, I was probably just surrounded by the wrong people, people who are trying to keep us small. I was benefiting them probably. It wasn't easy for them just to collect that 10, 20% off my Jody Shaw paycheck and, you know, keep me feeling little.

And ultimately, like, I made the decision to leave Series 9, as I now know. And it was really scary because I did it without the support of anyone really, apart from my mom, my mom and my pals. They absolutely really believed there would be something else for me. The people around you at the time wanting to keep you small, your lack of self-belief served their needs. And it takes a long time to unpack that. I think it takes as long to unpack

as you were in the situation in a way. So somebody said to me once, however long you were in a relationship, it takes twice as long to get over it. And I believe it's a similar dynamic with that. I spent so long being kept small because that's where I was useful and pliable and manageable for people. How does this impact your wellness more generally? What does wellness mean to you?

So I've always had this thing, wellness to me is waking up before your alarm in the morning. And that sounds so silly, right? But like I know I'm firing on all cylinders and I'm well and I'm healthy and I'm ticking all the boxes. When I wake up before my alarm and I go, no, I'm ready for a day. Yes.

And this might be like a really ignorant, innocent, like romanticized version of health, but it's my version. Because when I'm eating everything I should, and I'm nailing my jobs, and I'm being kind to people, and I'm going to all the right places, saying the right things, going to Pilates, you know, doing the things I need to be doing, I go to bed when I need to go. And that horrible voice that keeps me awake at night is quieter. You know, and I wake up before my alarm and I'm like, right, I'm ready for a day.

But when certain things are slipping and I'm neglecting my health and I'm neglecting the wellness and all the rest of it, the alarm goes off and I feel like it's the middle of the night and there must have been a mistake. Why would I set my alarm for 4am? This can't be right. And I look and it's not 7am and that's just not how I like to start my day with that like dialogue that inner monologue I like to be like ready

yeah and every day you know if I go to it's not gonna be every day and do you think there are more of those days now the good days are the bad days the good days yeah ultimately honestly mate like I for I got to the point when I was younger I couldn't even look at myself in the mirror because I hated who I was becoming but now know like I'm surrounded by great people and nurture those relationships. I'm thoughtful. I walk the dogs, I get fresh air, I eat what's right. And I've got a lovely partner, great family. I know I am moving more and more towards being the person that I wanna be.

So yeah, sleep does come easier and ultimately waking up is easier. There's still some slip ups here and there. I've had a red bull too late or, you know, potentially haven't been perfect way I should have been to a colleague or whatever. Do you know what I mean? But ultimately, no, I'm definitely finding wellness. I'm on the right track. Yes. And I love that you include kindness in your wellness map. That idea that if you're

not being as kind as you would have wanted to be on a perfect day, quote unquote, then that is a signal maybe that you need to take more care of yourself. Yeah, like it's, I don't know, I think you can tell when a person is well and happy. You can just tell because they are patient and nice. And don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about all the time we all have down days. We've all got so much that we're dealing with in this day and age, especially women that I'm not suggesting for one single second that we're all fucking perfect all the time because I'm not. But you know, when you just know someone's.

Gone to Pilates or somebody's done sunrise yoga or somebody's had the green juice or somebody's like done the hit class's had their green juice or somebody's like done the hit class or had the walk with the dog and you know, because it's in the way they treat people. And it's in the way they treat themselves. And I wonder if for you, it's almost like for many years, maybe you didn't think you were worth taking care of in this way. And you're getting to the point gradually where on some days you do feel you're worth taking care of. And that will just get more and more, Ricky, like

it will get more and more as you understand that you are fundamentally lovable exactly as you are. Yeah. I really hope that. I think it's all, I think it's definitely how you treat yourself. Sorry. Don't ever apologize for showing beautiful emotion, honestly. Tried so hard to hold them in, but sadly I leak. It is like how you treat yourself is all wrapped up in how you see yourself. It's your self-worth, isn't it? And I think for me, that is the final puzzle piece that's missing. The last bit is how I see myself. And it's just going to take time, mate. Well, you are amazing. This is the first time we've met, but it doesn't feel like that at

all. And your final failure is your failure to be private. And this pertains specifically to the fact that you grew up essentially on a reality TV program. And as you put it to me, I have had to work twice as hard to prove myself. Yeah. So like, you know, when you're in your early 20s and stuff and your teens and things like that,

like you're just trying to work out who you are. In fact, your early 20s and stuff and your teens and things like that, like you're just trying to work out who you are. In fact, your whole 20s is that a complete decade of self-exploration and growth. And, you know, for the best part, none of we've got the tools to navigate it. It's all about trial and error. There's absolutely no rule book, but I think it's when you, it's when habits are formed. It's, it's when you learn about yourself, it's when you make routines and things. Subsequently, most of my formative years, those years, were And now, as an adult, I have a real warped opinion of what is appropriate to share. Like I remember being so desperate to leave reality TV in its most traditional sense, you know, and saying to my team, I just want to be a TV presenter, I want to be a broadcaster,

I want the only thing that people know about me to be like what colour dress I had on that day or how I did at my job. I don't want them to know everything about my personal life anymore. Because when you give so much of yourself like that, people do feel like they know you and they feel like they know you and they feel like they've got every right to judge you this way to Sunday and that is quite exhausting emotionally to have to explain yourself to millions of people all the time when you're just trying to figure it out yourself when you're just a kid So I remember saying that and them being like, yep, this is the journey for you

this is what we're going to do, we're going to take you away from reality TV we're going to, you know what we're gonna do, we're gonna take you away from reality TV, we're gonna, you know, we're just gonna rebrand. And I wanted that, I wanted it so much. And actually, I just found a way to fucking overshare myself anyway. I just went on social media and was like, I'm over today, or got my period today, or got feel like shit today, or I'm so angry, or this or that. And this juggernaut that is social media sort of was rising as I was making this decision to dip out of reality TV. And it just replaced that in my life for giving everybody this huge access to me. And I think because that's how I lived me early twenties, I don't really know how to be anything else other than a habitual

oversharer. Well, I've got to the point where I've shared so much, like, I just don't know where that line is. Do you think that you struggle confusing privacy with secrecy. So the idea that you might want to keep something to yourself, is there part of you that feels like, oh, that would be dishonest though. If I didn't share it, that would be dishonest. I wouldn't be being authentic. I've made me living on being a transparent person. Being this nice, normal lass who's just managed to get somewhere and is really proud of that. And I know I wouldn't be here. I know I wouldn't be here if people hadn't voted for us to win

the jungle. People didn't buy me books and follow us on Instagram and invest in me. And subsequently I feel like I owe people so much and so I give so much. Yeah. I give everything like I've got, I really do and I always say like whenever I'm out and people go, oh does it bother you? When people ask for pictures and I'm like are you fucking joking me? Does it bother us when someone comes up and recognises me? No. It's the biggest honour of my life because the minute people stop asking for pictures or the minute people stop going, oh you're that bird from XYZ, I'll be back at my call centre. And I did, I was very bad. I was not good at that job. Like I was rubbish. I was trying to sell Sky

and I couldn't. I was crap. I feel beholden to the people who've put me here. And I feel this real sense of responsibility to continue to share everything, the highs and the lows of my life. So that be getting married to Erkan, this love of my life I've waited 15 years to find. Go on, let's lash it on the telly. Because people who are there for me when I had my heart broken and talked me through how they had their heart broken deserve to know that there can be light at the end of the tunnel, like I found. Yeah. That's what I think. And like, whether it's my PMDD, my periods, my hangovers, my gym sessions, my dogs, whatever, I just

think everybody deserves to know because they're invested in us. But it is exhausting. And I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. Am I boring people with my life? Should I be keeping some more back? I don't know anymore. It's such an interesting question. It's such an interesting question and really fascinating

hearing you talk about it as someone who is in the belly of the beast. And I want you to know that I don't think you need to feel beholden to us. We are so invested in you and want to see you thrive and you can keep on sharing but you don't have to share immediately. I think that would be, if it ever feels exhausting, you could always take some time and be like, let me work out how I feel about this thing and then I'll post about it. And that can be so powerful because it comes from this position of wisdom. Yeah. I think as I've got a bit older, I am getting a bit better. Like I used to be so impulsive. It used to be like, this has just happened to me right now. So obviously I need

to share it with everybody. Yes. Because that's what I'd grown up doing. And I am getting slightly better. I think me PMDD, it makes us quite introspective. And I don't know if what I'm feeling is rational all the time. So I try and sit on my feelings a little bit before I share. The lines are still blurred for us, mate. So PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And I had never heard of it until you started talking about it. And then a contestant on Married at First Sight started talking about it.

She did? Christina. Yes. Love Christina. Yes, we love her. Gorgeous little bunny. And it is like a very, very aggressive form of, will you explain what it is? No, you're hitting the nail on the head, honestly. So PMDD, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, is essentially often described as an aggressive form of PMS. The best way I ever heard it described and something that has stayed with me is like, imagine building a sand castle of good habits. You eat healthy,

you nurture your relationships, you practice self-care. And then once a month, a wave comes along and it completely destroys your castle. In place of all these good habits and just this utter destruction and despair, for some people it manifests itself as anxiety and insomnia and exhaustion and crippling self-doubt. In extreme cases, you have such dark thoughts, you're suicidal, right? And every month I have to watch this like, quite strong, quite confident, ambitious woman turn into a terrified little girl who doesn't want to post on social media, who doesn't want to go outside, who can barely articulate herself. I lose all sense of myself and it's like a terrifying place to be because in some of the darkest moments I genuinely believed the world would be a better place without us in it. and I have to fight that. I have to fight

that feeling and reiterate that it's just temporary and you've been here before and you know this isn't you and you're going to be okay but it's killing women. For five years I went back and forth to the doctor, I mean, telling them, you know, I don't think I'm well. Something happens to me seven to 10 days before my period and I'm unrecognizable. I don't know what I'm capable of, you know? And it was from a real place of despair and fear

that I went to speak to somebody. I got told, have you tried losing weight? Which of course, when you get told by a medical professional, you go away and do. So I lost weight. I think maybe it was the time you came off your birth control. You've been on it a long time. So I came off my birth control.

That didn't help. Do you know that periods just get worse as you get older? Do you know that every other woman is going through what you're going through and they're managing to be okay? Are these mostly male doctors by nature? Yes, absolutely. And let's not make a sweeping generalisation. I think fair's fair, there was definitely some women who marginal marginalized how I was feeling, who dismissed me feelings and made me feel ashamed, but ultimately it was men.

And that is because there is a huge bias within medicine. Medical misogyny is rampant. And I just, like so many other women, absorbed it, shouldered it for years, believed I was the problem, believed I was weak and I couldn't cope with periods like all of them could. And you know it was only as we're through going on social media, and this is why I have that complicated relationship with my privacy because if I hadn't gone on there and gone, I am really struggling. Our women reached out and their droves mate and they and they said, Vicki, this is normal.

Regardless of what doctors are saying to you, it sounds to me that you've got PMDD. So I went away and I researched it myself. I kept a feelings journal, which honestly, as a girl from walls end is not something I thought I was going to look at. The least jolly thing you've ever heard. I went to see a doctor. I went private in the end, which again, irks me so much because I love the NHS, but they're just so, oh, they're just so stretched.

So anyway, so I went and I sat there all guns blazing, ready to have like a row about it and just be dismissed again. And I eventually got through my spiel, which must've been so muddled and just emotional. Anyway she just went, take a breath. She says, it sounds to me like you've got PMDD. And I just burst into tears. Honestly mate, I felt for the first time in my life, like at least for the last 10 years, I felt seen, I felt liberated. I felt like

I wasn't just descending into madness. And it's just so much more common than you think. And is there treatment for it? It's frustratingly enough, it's not a one size fits all pill. It's kind of, you have to work out what works for you and there's loads of different routes you can take. A lot of the time, it is anti-depressants for a certain period of the month. Personally, I'm reluctant to do that. I'm not depressed. I have PMDD. It's very different and you should be able to treat that rather than treat me as if I'm a depressed person. Birth control works for some people. Cognitive therapy works for others. Control works for some people, cognitive therapy works for others, supplements, I'm still not where I'd like to be. The thought of being a mother, as I am now, is again a terrifying

reality I'm facing. Has Erkan been helpful? Yes and no. Yeah. Because he's a man. And I hate to again make a sweeping generalisation, but they don't understand. Yeah. They don't understand and they can't possibly hope to be empathetic. They can be sympathetic. But it's taken, so same, I think it's maybe three, four years ago I got my diagnosis. It's three. And we've both had to learn to live with this. Because it absolutely kills me that for a quarter of our life, I am not the person that he fell in love with

and not the person that he thought he was marrying. Because that is the reality. I'm not myself. I'm not recognisable at all. I could be screaming one second and sobbing the next, then completely disassociating, unable to be social, lost, afraid, whatever it is, however it's manifesting itself that week, you know. He's had to learn to love that version of me as well and that is really difficult. That is not something I would ask of my worst enemy let alone the man I love more than anything else in the world you know. It is a true testament to him and his character that he's learned

to understand it because not every man does. I found the one thing that helps is communication. So saying to him, we are a little, like I say, coming into Pym'd week, he goes, oh no, Pym'd. Pym'd, and I say, yeah, Pym'd. And he goes, that's okay, like we'll just take it slow. And he knows that some days I will have to come in from work and just go straight to bed.

And I can't even speak to him because I'm so done in from pretending to be the person that I am normally with other people that I've got nothing left to give him or the dogs. He is so understating and considerate. So I think what I'm trying to say is if any women are listening and they've got PMDD or they think they've got PMDD and their husband or partner just can't understand it, please don't think that makes him a bad person or it makes him fundamentally not the right person for you. Don't go down a rabbit hole with it. They're not made to understand initially. You have to help them with it. You have to help each other. And I think the very fact that you have found the words to communicate something so difficult within your partnership is such an amazing foundation for a future relationship. Communication is totally key.

So the fact that you can navigate this very, very challenging thing for me just makes you as a unit stronger. So I want to commend you for that. Thank you. Final question. If you could still have done Geordie Shaw and be where you are and who you are, but you could erase all of the tapes in existence and it would never be seen by anyone again, would you do it? Oh, I don't know. No, because that's a cowardly, you don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft. I would not be on the trajectory I'm on now, Elizabeth, you know, to be in somebody who is worthy of the things I want.

If I hadn't had certain things happen to me and if I hadn't been a specific type of person, if I hadn't done some stuff to myself, oh well, let's hold my hands up with a bit of accountability. I was my own worst enemy. Sabotaged myself all the time and I'm constantly reminded of who I used to be and that pushes me forward. Stops me doing those things because I don't want to be that person again. And maybe as if those tapes weren't out there and I didn't get the odd comment from people still being you are just the slag off the telly, I wouldn't be so committed to being better. Oh, that's made me cry. What an amazing note to end on. You can't be old and wise unless you were young and daft. We've all got past me and we just need to own it unapologetically and use it as fuel to go forward. Vicki Patterson, I can't wait to see what you do next. You are such a powerful and worthy woman.

Thank you so much for coming on How To Fail. Thank you so much for having us. I hope everyone's not sick of seeing me cry like a big family. No, I'm not going to get up and give you another big hug. This episode has been brought to you by Ahla Lacto Free. Delicious dairy with all the taste, none of the lactose. Please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.