How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett - How to Read Women, Know What to Say, and Get Her Asking YOU Out: Hayley Quinn’s Secrets to Attraction

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Are you just not sure how to talk to women, either on the apps or in real life? Top UK dating expert Hayley Quinn is here to show you how to flirt effortlessly, confidently read women, and get them asking YOU out. She knows exactly what creates attraction—and how you can get better results fast. You’ll learn how to talk to women in a way that feels authentic and sparks real connection, without overthinking or using weird “pickup” moves.Hayley and dating coach Connell Barrett will teach you:2:55: How to Overcome Your Fear of Rejection and Attract the Right Woman4:00: Why Women Prefer Meeting Men in Real Life, and How to Make It Happen7:58: How Her Client Approached a Woman in the Daytime and Turned it into a Deep Connection15:30: Why Many Women Want Men to Talk to Them IRL, Not on the Apps21:03: The Game-Changing Move that Instantly Improves Your Love Life23:45: Hayley’s Top Tips for How to Read Women36:33 The #1 Approach Mistake Men Make—and How to Fix It50:27: How Hayley Changes Men’s Lives with In-Person CoachingListen now and let Connell and Hayley show you how to attract your dream girlfriend!TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HAYLEY OR TO APPLY TO WORK WITH HER: http://www.hayleyquinn.com/CHECK OUT HER TED TALK THAT HAS 3 MILLION VIEWS:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmUayKnHWWMFOR A FREE STRATEGY CALL WITH CONNELL TO LEARN HOW TO HAVE GREAT FIRST DATES:http://www.datingtransformation.com/contactTO GET FREE ACCESS TO “THE FLIRTY 30,” CHARMING QUESTIONS TO ASK WOMEN ON DATES, ON THE APPS, AND WHEN YOU APPROACH:http://www.datingtransformation.com/FLIRTY30WANT A FREE COPY OF CONNELL’S NO. 1 AMAZON BESTSELLING BOOK, “DATING SUCKS BUT YOU DON’T”? EMAIL CONNELL AND WRITE “FREE BOOK” IN THE SUBJECT LINE AND YOU’LL GET IT INSTANTLY:[e-mail]

The fact, I would say to anybody who's having that dialogue with themselves, is it creepy? Am I going to be creepy? How do I not overstep boundaries? The fact you're thinking in those terms, I think inherently means you're not the creepy guy. You're so unlikely to be that guy. In fact, you're probably so far over in the other direction that you're not communicating intentions and women just aren't seeing you. And that is a big shame. Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach, Connell Barrett.

I am here to help you learn to flirt, gain self-confidence, and get a great girlfriend all by being authentic. No sketchy, toxic pickup artist moves needed. And today I have a really special guest who's going to help you meet your future girlfriend. My guest today is Haley Quinn. Haley is the leading UK dating coach and she's a real superstar in this world of dating coaches. Haley coaches both men and women and she has transformed countless lives with her approach to finding love. She's the founder of HaleyQuinn.com. That's H-A-Y-L-E-Y-Q-U-I-N-N.com. She's

got master classes, she's got coaching, she's got virtual coaching. It's all there on her website. And she's also written a really great book called Do This Not That Dating, which has 75 plus tips for difficult dating situations. And that's something you should definitely check out. One last thing, her TED Talk has gotten over 3 million views. That's 3 million more views than my non-existent TED Talk. So get ready for an action-packed episode with lots of insight from a true shining light in this world. Oh, wow. We're almost out of time, Haley, but thank you for being here.

That's our episode. No, it was awesome. Thank you for the long introduction. I feel very, I enjoyed my like 30 seconds of flattery there. Now I want to crack on and get the good work done. Let's do a two part episode. The first one is your introduction. The second episode is just advice

Anyway, so I was reading your book Yesterday actually I was listening to it I think I've forgotten how to read because all I do are listen to audio books and podcasts But I was listening to your book do this do this not that dating and I was really struck by something So I want to read a quote to you from your book you wrote quote And I was really struck by something so I want to read a quote to you from your book you wrote quote Rejection isn't a reflection of your worth But a redirection towards someone who's a better match and then a quote a few sentences later Reads just because the front cover of the book isn't exactly what a person

Wants in terms of them meeting you seeing you that doesn't mean the content of the book is bad Can you talk about how men can change the way they look at quote unquote rejection? Well, yeah, it's men, but it's also everybody because I think rejection is a fundamental part of everyday life. It's a pretty, it can be a feel like an emotionally sucky part of everyday life, but it is life. And actually, if we can accept rejection as something that we will all face, particularly those of us or those people out there who strive to do things differently, you know, if you strive to put yourself out there and be compelling and to meet women, particularly meeting women in real life, that is quite confrontational. But through that confrontation,

I think there's so much scope for great personal development, great learning, great confidence building. And I just would start to say as well to acknowledge the guys who are out there fighting the good fight, doing that right now. That's a brave and courageous thing that you're doing. And by facing up to rejection

and trying to find new strategies of how to think about it, you place yourself in this remarkably better position to obtain success and get the things that you want out of life. So you mentioned meeting you mentioned meeting people in real life. That's my favorite topic. I love I do minimal. And I still I don't know if you know this, but to this day or for a really long time now,

like over 15 years, I do real world dating boot camps. I still coach that, I'm on the front lines. So with men and women, we're taking them out there to meet people in the real world. There's no workshops, there's no notepads. We are doing it. And because of that, obviously I'm completely biased, but I see it not only as the best way to meet people, but also just a fantastic form of personal

development. Let me play devil's advocate. Okay. Sure. I'm going to play the part of the guy listening to this podcast. He's a little bit shy. He's a nice guy. He's a true gentleman.

He does not want to creep women out. And he's going to say, come on, you guys, everybody's on the apps. Women don't want somebody to come up and hit on them and be creepy. What do you say to that guy? I say it's not, it's not where it's how, how that's important. You could be creepy on an app and you could be creepy in real life. But you, and I think the fact, I would say to anybody who's having that dialogue with themselves, is it creepy, am I gonna be creepy, how do I not overstep boundaries?

The fact you're thinking in those terms, I think inherently means you're not the creepy guy. You're so unlikely to be that guy. In fact, you're probably so far over in the other direction that you're not communicating intentions and women just aren't seeing you. And that is a big shame because I work with women too. And women are often convinced there's no good guys out there. They've just run out. They missed the sale. They're gone. And in fact, I see that there's tons of amazing guys every day, but there's that communication gap where because they

don't want to be the creepy guy because they don't want to be the creepy guy, they don't want to press on boundaries, that they're simply not communicating with women in a way that is recognizable to women for a whole bunch of bad social reasons as being romantic and therefore they're not being discovered and there's less romance all round for everybody. Well, you know who doesn't worry about coming off as creepy? Actual creeps. Right.

Actual creeps don't give a damn. So I tell my clients, I say, by the way, the fact that you're nervous, that you're in your head, that you don't want to quote creep women out, that's a sign that you're a healthy normal person. It's a sign that you care and have empathy for people. That's a good thing. But we can over learn that lesson. We can take the whole, we can take the whole bottle of be nice and don't creep women out instead of

just a pill. Don't you think? Okay. So you're a woman obviously, and I know you're married now, but you've been on the front lines both as a coach and once upon a time as a single woman, actually let's do this. Let's let's go into some of that frontline coaching that you still do in person, which I love that you're still out there. Do you have any fun wins, success stories, moments, clients who you saw crush it when you thought you weren't sure what was going to happen, but something great happened? Well, I think when I do real world coaching and you do a practical bootcamp, you are never

sure what's going to happen. That's part of the wonder of meeting people in real life. And that's the personal development. That's why myself, I always coach on the events. I wouldn't personally feel comfortable with saying, hey, come take my program. And then I'm not even there. I've outsourced it to a bunch of people.

I take great pride in the coaching, the work that me and my team do. And I love the transformation. I think there's nothing like it. You can start with it, and it's just sometimes for guys, it's as simple as just giving them permission that they are allowed to do something and inhabit a certain part of their personality could be really really transformational. So to think about one from one of the last sessions I had a lovely guy he was actually from the north of England we have guys for all over the world but he was a he was a Geordie if you guys in

the States know what that is. He was 49 years old and he really wanted to go out there and meet women in real life and actually find someone and he was terribly shy Was walking down the street in Soho our Soho in London not too different to NYC Soho, right? And he saw a woman who was sat by herself Drinking a glass of wine and eating a plate of oysters now the dating coach in me saw this and I thought that is a That is an unusual, not typical thing for someone to be doing. He was very able to think on his feet.

He walked over to her and I think he cracked again. These were his own words. He made a joke about how he preferred Chinese food. He sat down next to her. They ended up trying an oyster They were there for like I I had he was there for over an hour Swap numbers started going on dates with this woman. So it's like it's a magical moment of serendipity and

Trusting yourself and also just choosing to notice things. I think people communicate who they are all the time I think people actually communicate that in some ways that they'd like to be spoken to. And when you can tap into that and when you see reciprocation from the woman, it creates these kind of magical meet cute moments. And you know, whether it turns into a relationship or not, I think it can feel incredibly confidence building, incredibly fun for both people. You know what, it can even, even if you get the, the quote unquote nightmare scenario where it turns out she's got a boyfriend or something, you could, it can still be an amazing

moment. It can still be a great interaction. So I think there's, I could not encourage men enough, particularly if they feel a little bit slammed on the dating apps, which I think for men are Harder griff than they are for women right to be able to build themselves up to the point about going out there and meeting women In person. That's a great story. I love how he noticed that unusual thing That stood out or you maybe you noticed it and pointed it out to him. I Give my clients. I don't like to tell men what to say or have them plan

it because you don't want to plan. I don't like a scripted, a scripted opening line. I don't want to sound too forced, but I let them know, hey, if you notice something unusual, like a woman eating oysters by herself, that's something you can absolutely use as a way in and a very genuine, organic or as you said, serendipitous way which I love. And also I'd like to add to that totally agree I think observations when you when you find them are great sometimes you don't get the observation what you get is an intuitive feeling of I just want to go and talk to this person and if that's what comes up you that's the truth lead with that that's right that's the authentic thing so I think as well for guys learning how to meet women in real life

continually kind of lowering this threshold and getting away from this idea of like a pitch-perfect performance and Recognizing actually they they are enough and actually if they just send the invitation they create the opportunity If the woman is in the reciprocal space that she also needs to be into to make this magic happen, then great things can happen. And what a great story that they would have if they became a couple. Yeah, what a great way every time they would meet somebody in the future, they're going to hear Oh, how did you two meet? And a woman like that gets to say, Oh, he just came up to me.

I was eating oysters and having some wine. And next thing I knew, we were came up to me. I was eating oysters and having some wine and next thing I knew we were really clicking and connecting Whereas if he's the eight hundredth guy who swiped right on her on tinder. She's not even gonna see his profile Yeah, and I and I think that's kind of a obviously happy relationships do come out of dating apps And I don't completely naysay them because I think it's good to be open-minded to all options However, I think that's an inherent problem kind of baked into the DNA of an app is you meet on an app. And for women, serendipity, romance, bold moves, like so much of this is how

women view romance and an app is inherently unromantic. So I feel that, but it can take quite a lot for both people to show up to a dating app date in like the optimum frame of mind for something magical to happen. Whilst I think in real life, you overcome a lot of those initial hurdles. Yeah. Oh, that's very well said. And you said something else that my girlfriend echoed to me when I first met her, how sometimes

a woman will make herself a bit more approachable in ways great and small. My girlfriend Jess said to me, she came out with me on one of my in-person programs when I first met her. That's how I knew she was the one. She starts ordering my clients around, like, get over there. She wants to talk to you. And I'm like, oh my God, she's the one for me. But anyway, she said that when she would go out with her girlfriends in her single days,

they were in a group, but she would literally out with her girlfriends in her single days They were in a group But she would literally separate herself from that herd and make it easier for a guy to come over Because she knows that it can be intimidating to see a group of five or six women together So yeah women sometimes will actually try to make it easier for you Sometimes and I would say Jess only seems to have her wits about her in terms of how to meet a guy Which is probably why she's ended up as being your girlfriend. Look, some women are smart and they're tapped into this. But to put this to men as well, I think part of what makes it so difficult, and I know

this working with women as well, is just how a man may not intuitively understand how do I start a conversation, how do I break the ice and connect with this woman. Lots of women also do not intuitively understand how to send the right signals to men. So I work with women who would love to meet men, they actually would, especially in real life, they desire to get off the apps and meet men, but they're like I feel I don't know what signals to send, am I coming because I'm desperate, I don't know what signals to send. Am I coming across as desperate? I don't want the world to know I'm single. What if someone talks to me and I don't like them?

There's like this whole pile on of reasons which also inhibit women from interacting really freely. So yes, I would say some socially savvy and confident women will understand. Look, if I just give great space by myself, I'm not gonna come and say hello to you But I'll give you a clear opportunity I'll give you a clear shot to say hello to me many many other women won't

But if approached in the in in I'm not gonna say the right way because there isn't a right way a good enough way They will be Receptive to making that connection right good enough is good enough. Just do it receptive to making that connection. Right. Good enough is good enough. Just do it. Absolutely. Just do it.

I remember early in my journey, I approached a woman at Whole Foods in the daytime. Maybe we can talk about daytime approaching even more because I feel like so many men say, okay, I'm at a bar, I'm at a club, it's okay. I can find the liquid courage or the social permission. I think at the daytime, it gets harder for a lot of men. And I remember early on I approached a woman at Whole Foods when I was first learning all these things in the late double zeros. And I got her number, her name's Ashley, we were standing in the cereal aisle.

It was fantastic. And she could tell how nervous I was. And I even said something like, thank you for being so friendly and nice. And she said something to me and I felt like she was talking to all men She looked at me and said it's okay. You can come up to us. We like it How do you still that was a long time ago that was about 15 years ago in 2025 now in this dating app world. Do you think women still feel that way generally? Hmm, I think I can't speak on behalf of all women in this dating app world, do you think women still feel that way generally? Hmm.

I think I can't speak on behalf of all women. I would say enough women are interested in meeting women, meeting men in real life, uh, you're right. The daytime presents. I would say the negatives of that are there's no context. So, you know, if you're in a bar or a singles event, there is context. You will probably find it for, I would say for guys that are really just starting out on this, that could be a good way to build confidence. The benefit of meeting people in the daytime is they're sober.

I think that's great. We do all our coaching sober. We I think in the daytime we do every, I think it's one-to-one. So for the guys that are more introverted, don't like crowds, don't love loud music volumes, there's some really good wins there. It was a little while ago now, but I also met my husband at the gym, which I think is another one of those environments

where you perhaps think, oh, I'm not allowed to, am I allowed to do that? Is that just really immediately in the creepy bracket? So I would say learning to meet women in Whole Foods, it's not the easiest yards for someone who's a complete beginner without coaching or a community or some kind of support to go alongside it. Is it possible?

Yes. Can it be amazing? Absolutely. And I would think about how you can do that as part of, I guess, a really well balanced dating strategy. And it's also depends, I guess, at your on your personality and what, where you're at in your journey to do things. So I would say if you're beginning, don't wedge yourself to any particular idea about how you're going to meet women. Just come back to this very simple idea of, look, I'm going to take action.

Yeah, I'm going to present myself and and I'm gonna do that across the board fantastic you mentioned how you and your husband met and I was looking at your website and there seems to be some controversy about who talked to whom first what's your what's your what we'll get him on a separate episode what's your story about how you met your now husband at the gym? I'm going to put myself in the savvy woman bucket there. And I like I noticed him noticing me. I wouldn't say he was like my 100% my normal type. I but I was kind of in a in a good frame of mind around dating and I was like, I'll be open minded. I walked out of

the gym slowly. We also had a bit of serendipity. We got locked, we were both late for gym class, and we were locked out of this kind of gym class at the same time. We were both there banging on the door at the same time, which gave us an opportunity to get started. What I really loved about, there's a lot of things I loved about how he connected with me. One of them was when we'd finished that gym session, came out and I said, oh you know I really feel like something fruity and he said

there is a fruit shop down the road let's go and he took charge. He took charge, he chose me a few flat peaches which I'd never tried before and he just bought me a bag of peaches which was such like a simple gesture, but I really, really, really liked it. And I think from that moment, he was super clear, always was being really forthcoming. We lived in opposite directions. He would always say, look, I'll walk you back from the gym. And I'd be like, no, no, it's out of your way.

And he'd say, look, it's 10 minutes extra to be in your company. I'm happy to do it. And he was just, I think, compared to other guys, he just showed up for me in a way that was so solid, so clear, so kind, and self-assured. It was just, he was a, he definitely became the one. Well, my interpretation from a coaching perspective,

from your story anyway, is the takeaway for me be, he put himself in a place at the gym where he was just going about his life, working on himself, being fit, great. And a situation arose where he was talking to a woman he clearly was interested in and attracted to. And then it wasn't about fancy, cool, amazing things he said that I know of he just started chatting with you and then he took that chance he said hey let's go let's go get some fruit together that's my takeaway any lessons that you glean for the listener

from what your husband your now husband did right yeah I think as I said you know taking taking the chance is the best in terms of like big leavers and little leavers that is is the big lever take the action There's like a lot of other little tiny ones like ah Maybe you could say that a bit differently or just be aware of that on your messages The big lever is taking action if you do that Yeah, especially in person you are like light years ahead in terms of how you're positioning yourself as a guy I also really enjoyed that there was

That I guess from a guy's perspective as well, he just took a little step forwards and I was okay to go along with that next step. Didn't mean we were always perfectly aligned in terms of like where and how we wanted our relationship to go, but I was open to it. And I think for men out there as well to just approach the world of

dating knowing yes there's things that you can do to show up differently as a man but women have a role to play in this too you know and she also has things she needs to bring to the table to make that magic happen and to make that magic work so you can only do your bit right and then you have to you can only open that door And then she has to walk through it like the song says it takes two, baby It takes two. I love the idea of big levers and little levers. I love that I think you're right taking a risk taking a chance as a gigantic lever being authentic being you're putting that vulnerable real self Out there. That's a massive lever. I think one of the mistakes that men make at least with what

approaching is The little lever of what do I say? What's the what's the right line? I think a lot of men take that little what I think is a smaller lever and turn it into something That's a big lever, but I think what to say is is a small lever most of the women I dated from approaching They don't remember what I said to them. They just liked my general vibe Mm-hmm. I think that's a you know that quote don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good Yeah So I think if you you sweat it and I think a lot of that think about how datey advice it is is given

It's like ah, it's the perfect line Is it it way it weighs in heavily heavily on perfection or this idea of performance or there's this magic stuff that women love to hear. And in fact, as you just said, if you allow that to build up to the point it actually inhibits you from taking action because you're thinking about all the other stuff you have to do, instead you have to be very, very step by step, very, very simple in terms of how you teach it. That's gonna be way more effective. I would say to worry about what to say

or thinking about how to, I don't know, notice a woman is eating a plate of oysters. Do that when you're already comfortably, regularly meeting women in person. Maybe reflect and think about how you could refine that. At the start, just act and you know what? You may never need to refine. There are many men who have never done an ounce

of dating coaching throughout our history as a species who have done this before you. So you also do not need to be, you know, one needs to be Casanova, no one needs to be Serano de Bergerac. You need to take a chance. You need to present yourself to a woman. And that might, is in fact in and

all likelihood enough. Fantastic. You struggle with dating, right? Sure, you have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt, the apps don't work for you, and sometimes women put you in the friend zone. It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too. As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone,

I owned real estate there. But I escaped. Using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love. It's what I wrote about in my best-selling book, Dating Sucks But You Don't, and Radical Authenticity is Why Psychology Today Called Me the Best Dating Coach in America. And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to DatingTransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call, I'll tell you how my one-on-one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend, and you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and Authenticity no creepy pickup tricks needed

So go to dating transformation calm book a free call today and let my personalized coaching help you Get a great girlfriend one or two more sort of practical dating questions Then I want to get a little bit deeper about something you said on your TED talk. Before we get to that, I want to ask you this. I can't ask a woman dating expert, I can't let you come on my podcast without asking you about the woman's perspective. And one of the most common questions I get from men and listeners of the pod is, how do you read women on a date? How do I read them? How can I tell if she likes me? How do I read and figure out the situation? Maybe let's pivot away from approaching

for a second and go to say the first date or that first one on one conversation. Any thoughts on do's and don'ts or what you tell your male clients about how to read women? Okay. You know, I'm going to say something that's maybe a bit controversial. I don't think you should even try. I think reading other people who you don't know very well is really difficult. I think you can look for very obvious indicators. Is she happy to spend time with you? Does she say yes to the date?

Does she spend a good amount of a decent amount of time with you on that date? Does she ask you questions about yourself? Like there's some basic stuff in there in terms of her contribution, but I wouldn't frame it in terms of signs that she likes me because I think that can actually often be quite disempowering. Instead, I'd flip that around. If I was a guy, I would go in there and think, what would I like to have from her? What would I like to see her contribute? What would make me more interested in her? What would make me more attracted to her

if I got this contribution from her? Because a guy, you can know what you feel about something, right? But you know, mystically understanding somebody you've only met for a couple of hours is extremely difficult. Also, the best way to get to that answer is through communication. I think as the guy choose to state you know trust your own sense of what you would like to have happen next in this

situation, state it and communicate it to her, get her response. That is harder because you may you may think well if I just got these ten magical signs I could be more sure About what she wants and then I wouldn't have to face so much fear of rejection. I'd feel like on safer territory However, I think that can often be misleading instead. I think it's better to sort of rip that safety blanket off and Has provided she is? participating and investing to trust your own decision about what you would like to have happen next and to communicate and to state what you'd like to happen with

her and listen radically to her? I love that. That's radical. You even say on your website, I want to quote, radically change your dating habits. That's a very radical change than what most men are trying to do in a good way. I think it's great. It's like, you know, I'm gonna focus on what I can control, I'm gonna bring my best self to the date,

I'm gonna try to get her to contribute. I think of dating as a, I love acting or improv. I've taken a lot of improv classes. I love the art of one-on-one, playful, true, artistic connection in an improv setting, and I see dates the same way. I'm like, I'm here to play with you I'm here to bring a truthful real playful self

And if you'll play with me will probably be in a good place And if you aren't gonna play with me, then maybe we're not a good fit and that's okay, too But I'm not gonna try to read every single syllable you say Exactly, I think that's a good intention nice and easy as well as bring into a day and I think that's a good intention, nice and easy as well to bring into a date. And I think simple is good as well, you know, like you can, again, simple means like less like overthinking, less anxiety, more ability to be, you know, to express who you are. Yeah, keep it as simple as you can. Dating's tough.

Dating's hard. There's the self doubt, there's the identity, there's the being lonely, looking for love. Keep it as simple as you possibly can. Okay, I can't, I want to play this clip from your TED talk. You have a great TED talk. It's only got three million views, that's all. And there was about a 45 second excerpt that really made me stop and nod my head. I'm going to play it and then we'll talk about it.

So here it is. And that's really because I'm concerned that in our quest for love, sometimes it can be the ultimate distraction to fixing ourselves and doing the real work that will actually make us happy. Because don't get me wrong, I think that the desire for attachment,

for intimacy, for security, for love, those goals are natural, they're human, and they're good. But I think sometimes the way we go about them is a bit weird, whether that's crazy, ridiculous, on-off, destructive relationships, or needing to go out on a date every single night of the week with a different person, you know, like the hip form of dating, where you have someone on the back burner, someone on the front burner, someone under the grill,

and then someone else over there in the freezer, just in case, God forbid, right, you spend a night by yourself. Amazing, that's so great. The part that really caught my attention, other than the part at the end that made me laugh, was you talked about how, let's do the real work here. Let's not just talk about tactics

and the practical parts of dating, but let's also do the real work that makes us happy, makes us more fulfilled. Can you talk about how we do that work or how we begin to do the real work? Well I guess for some people will be, will identify with what I said at that section of the TED talk, which is dating is a distraction. Other people, and I think this will probably represent the majority of the guys that I would imagine listening to this podcast, is dating a distraction?

Is it that they're actually just trying to create some movement and some traction in that area of their life? So maybe the idea of, wow, I've had all these crazy relationships and my life is stacked full of dates. That may be a perceived high quality problem that just like simply hasn't happened yet for them. So I think a good way to think about it is obviously, we can, I think society quite neatly sets up

that finding a romantic partner is like, and it is, it's an amazing achievement, but is it a silver bullet for all your life's problems? No. Look at how the pick-up artist industry, though I have some positive things to say about that, but they often make a romantic achievement, like what do they focus on? The number, a date, having sex with someone, and then there's a bit, it's like the advice drops off the end of a cliff. Um, as someone who's been married for quite a while, quite safely say that the work therefore continues. So it's not that you meet someone and that's it.

You're you passed go congrats. You've won at life. It is an achievement. It's a great thing, but it's a continued and evolving work and process commitment. Particularly as an evolving work in progress. It is as it says on the Tim. So it's a, before you get to that stage, I often think it's good with where you're at now.

I know it can feel difficult and as a woman, I probably have not had to get anywhere near confronting the levels of I think loneliness that many single men have had to confront and to face. But there is a real value at this period in your life when you are by yourself. You never have such a profound opportunity for personal development, for self-growth,

for understanding who you are. So I get it's really, really tough. It's tough for men, it's tough for women, it's tough for everybody. But there is a value in that time that isn't to be underestimated. Well said. I think loneliness is a deep internal wound that many men need to heal. Many people, many men in the case of this podcast. For me, when I got into this world in the mid 2000s, so I started working on my dating life right when I read the game. I was like, no way, you can learn how to get girls?

What, what? So the game came out in the mid double zeros. That's when I read that book and started taking action. And then I took my first dating bootcamp as a student in 2009. And for me, the biggest internal work I had to do, I didn't know what at the time, but now I realize what it was, is I just felt insignificant to women. I just felt like, oh, I'm a nerdy, skinny ginger who's barely dated until he

was in his 30s. I guess women don't really much like me. And that was the internal work that I needed to do. And I guess my question for you is, how does a man know what the internal work is that he needs to do? By taking the risk and pulling the big lever. Because when you start taking risks, when you put yourself in a space of action, you know what you get? Feedback. Yeah.

Feedback is tough, because you're going to find out things about yourself. You're going to hear an echo of what some of those vulnerabilities are. For some people, not so much others. There may be communication skills there or points of self-awareness. They're going to come to the surface. But again, that can be challenging. It's a lot easier, isn't it, just to sit at your home and watch Netflix, scroll the internet and just think, oh, you

know, it'll just, it'll happen or it won't happen. But actually by doing the work and putting yourself out there, you face up to a lot of this stuff. But that's, that's, as I said, I think feedback is the breakfast of champions. I think that's how you, that's how you learn. That's how you grow. And it's not just the, the, the feedback isn't just there for men either. It's a human thing. You know, women also have vulnerabilities.

Women also have limiting beliefs. Women also have, you know, not so helpful narratives around dating that they also get feedback on in different ways. What have you found are two or three of the top limiting beliefs that men have about themselves? They might not know they're limiting. They might just be beliefs, but what are the top two or three beliefs that you look at in your male clients and think, oh, we got to fix that, sir?

Well, I think as you said, the profound one is for everyone is I'm just not the kind of person that people find attractive, that there's this one kind of person and it's certainly not me that people like. So I think that could be just not identifying as like, you know, the romantic hero feeling like instead I'm like the funny person or I'm the nice person but I'm not that guy. And also I guess seeing, again, this is a kind of a negative side of some of the pick-up world and industry, again, this is a kind of a negative side of some of the pickup world and industry is I think it very much presents there is one there is a one way or maybe there's a couple of different ways that you can be successful and romantically attractive as a man and I think if you don't neatly fix fit

into either of those boxes that can be very, very challenging. So I'd say like just again, lack of self-belief, I'm not that guy is gonna be huge. I think another big one is just feeling that they do not have permission to present themselves as a sexual masculine man, that they're not allowed again. And I like, again, we could probably do a whole podcast episode on reasons why men feel that they're not allowed to express themselves sexually.

And I mean, it's a very logical conclusion for men to draw, we're looking and taking feedback for the world around them. So again, I think if a guy is at that space where he's struggling to find a healthy way to express sexual and romantic interest in a woman, there's a thousand good reasons why he's arrived in that place. However, the big stick point there is

it becomes a that can becomes a huge communication breakdown where because he's not able to authentically communicate his interest is feeling is intentions towards a woman is like sending out like a patchy signal and expecting that signal to hit home with the woman. It just doesn't resonate. And then as I said, the woman, her patchy signal, her patchy bit is like probably being quite narrow

in terms of how she expects romance to happen, what she, the kind of how she imagines a man to interact with her. Women often literally do not get it that for a man to approach a woman, particularly in real life, could be really hard. Women just don't get it. Here's a woman's limiting belief. If I was attractive enough, he would just come and sweep me off my feet. They don't consider that, hey, perhaps this guy's feeling a bit scared or he doesn't know if he's got permission to do it. They just think that men are like hardwired Casanovas.

And they think again, then their own stuff, women's own feelings of lack of confidence around their looks, that's the storyline she'll take. She'll go, there's no good men out there, or I'm not attractive enough. She won't go, there's loads of good guys out there, but they're struggling to communicate and relate to me right now for some reasons that are on them and some reasons that are societal. What can I do to help? Most women don't think like that. Don't fast forward. This is not an ad. It's a free thing that's going to help you flirt with confidence because I'll bet that you struggle with what to say to women and how to flirt, right?

Well, let's fix that. I'm going to give you what I call the flirty 30. These are 30 flirty questions to ask women on the apps or on dates or when you approach so that you can confidently connect with cool, sexy women starting today. It's time to stop running out of things to say and start asking them flirty questions that are gonna make them want to date you. So to get your copy of the Flirty 30, it's totally free.

Just go to datingtransformation.com slash flirty 30, and that's FLIRTY 30 datingtransformation.com slash flirty 30 you're about to start Confidently flirting with women going on dates and soon getting a great girlfriend. Go get your flirty 30 Yeah, that's a great lever mental lever to give a guy to tell him You know what, that woman you're afraid to approach, why don't you go over there and make her night better by letting her feel sexy and intriguing and attractive to you.

She may or may not be your type, but why don't you go over there and give her what she wants? And that idea of helping a man focus on what he's offering the other person, as opposed to what might happen if she rejects me. To me, I've seen some really nice shifts that men make when they make that mental mindset change. So I think yeah, that I would phrase that is you're talking about creating an intention for your approaches. And I think when you go in the kind of pick up the intention of how do I get something from her?

I get what I want. You're going to probably feel a bit icky. And if you feel like he, you're probably not going to be able to take the action. And that's a problem because without pulling that action, either you're stuck. So what intention can you give yourself? And you're right. Like altruism, how can I make her day better? How can I make a day is a really, really solid one. It could be, how can I be curious about her? So even if she's not a hundred percent your type and you might not be a hundred percent hers

Curiosity is a really good one as well. Or how can I express myself? Self-expression is lovely as well because you feel good. Everyone feels good when they get to express themselves So you got to find an intention or again a framework for meeting and interacting with women that helps to propel and support your self-esteem That's really really important That's why I think personalized help and coaching if you are so inclined is so important because different people have different Combination locks to unlock that confidence. I've had clients. I had a client named Ted I just said just walk up to women and find out what makes them interesting to you What makes them fascinating because he's such an inquisitive guy that was his lever that said oh

I love finding out what makes people interesting But a different person that might not work with for me. It was let's express. Let's express some genuine Playful fun energy because that was what lit me up at the time But um, but every guy is a little bit different. Okay, I want to finish up with some talking about old school PUA stuff. The good, the bad, the ugly. Because I have a lot of feelings about PUA guys. On one hand, these are the first guys I ever hired to help me back when I was nervous and nerdy and so in my head. So they did help me change my life. At the same time, there's plenty of cringe in this area too.

Tell us a little bit about your past. You used to write, as I understand it, write advice or ghost write for pickup artists back in the day. Can you clarify what you used to do? Yeah, yeah, this is going back a lot, like a long, this is like 2008, 2009. The real long form of the story that I'll try and keep

Breathe is that I had a boy. I was very young I was maybe like 18 or 19 and I had a boyfriend that was into pickup I wasn't super happy with how he treated me as a result of the pickup industry Let's say that and I was like a also quite a feminist at the time I was like, you know, I'm gonna blow this industry wide open. Let me see what's in there. Come at me. In my much more confrontational space in my life that I was at the time.

So deciding to try and rebel, I reached out to some pickup artists on Twitter and through blogs. That era was really just beginning. Some of them got back to me probably because I was an 18 year old woman and they actually I was trying to find work. I wanted to be a writer and they they some of them offered me a job ghost writing on their blog. Some of their blogs perform well. Then I started to write more

and more content. Then I was attending their seminars in New York and in London and then they said hey well why don't you talk for like five minutes? You could be like the woman's opinion. Right. And I didn't know what I was doing, but I tried. I threw myself out there. After that, I had around 2010. I found myself with nowhere to live. I ended up moving into a pickup artist layer

with a few guys that I'd met through the scene. We actually sublet a room in that house to a student who subsidized our rent and therefore we all existed. So it was digital nomadism. It was basically I was the girl in the guy gang. It was a very crazy period in my life, but I learned a lot. And also my coaching, I was they were just like, well, you know, you got this guy, you got six hours with him in a nightclub or in a supermarket. Sorry, how do you say that in a grocery store? And good luck. So my coaching was very was probably not that great 15 years ago But it was formed on the fly and through all these kind of real-life

Interactions so as a as a not I'm going formally as a nerdy introverted slightly socially anxious person myself I can say that the world of pickup gave so much to my life You know it it gave me so many friends. It gave me my career. These amazing experiences that I've had developed me. So there's been so much good that's come out. And I also saw lots of coaches trying to do good. There's some bad stuff as well. Bad stuff, terrible standards back in the day for coaching products and boot camps. So if you did a boot camp back in 2010,

if you know, I don't I don't know if people were really thinking about it in the same ways in terms of, you know, who is ready for this coaching or who needs other mental health support, you know, there weren't really any standards. It was just like fly by the seat of your pants. I think that wasn't helpful for a lot of people. I also think the initial terminology was very problematic. Yeah, it probably started out just kind of being fun and kind of a funnish way to talk about women. But again, if you're thinking about the guy

who needs to pull that lever, if you talk to his average, nice, I mean that in a positive way man, yeah, does he want to approach a target? No, he probably doesn't Will that make you feel weird? Is he gonna get that target back to his seduction location? Yeah, exactly. He's bounced back. I don't know. Extraction. It's like it's fun. It's funny not funny when I look back on it through the lens of the past. I mean, there's a lot of things in our society that we've changed since the 20, the 20, the naughties and the 2010s, right? We're in a different space now. The pickup artist industry is the same. I think there was some casualties there, there was some bad stuff

there, but it also gave a lot to my life. So... Here are a couple of things that make me cringe or made me even made me cringe back then, but thought well I guess this is this is what you do one coach One coach said you want to tell a woman that you want to take things to a quote new Direction, but you pronounce it like nude erection So it's like subliminal say new direction and that's gonna turn well again Isn't that a nice idea isn't it isn't it a nice idea that you could say a two-word Kind of abracadabra phrase. Yeah, and a woman will see you as a sexual object Wow, wouldn't it be great if there was such a shortcut, but it's it's like

Mind kind of mind-blowingly unrealistic. So I think totally hear that. I mean Yeah unrealistic so I think totally hear that I mean yeah it never works for me. The other thing actually the guy who said I won't name him the guy who said this was actually a pretty good guy I don't I don't think he met it with the the way it sounds but one of the one of the coaches I went to his seminar he said he talked about oh well if you if you make it if you escalate physically on a woman and she doesn't like it, use a quote statement of empathy. And I'm like, okay, I get where that's coming from, but having a planned statement of empathy, that sounds like something Ted Bundy did to get women in his car. I mean, how about like having actual empathy? How about not doing things

that are gonna make you have to apologize probably? All that said I totally agree with you these men, mostly men, changed my life. I'm also gonna share one more I had with you. Approach a thousand women to get battle-hardened to your fear of rejection. Be rejected. You know rather than actually trying to understand that process differently or think about rejection differently, just you know, self-flagellate until you know it's meaningless to you. And again, I think it's like I can kind of see the grain of the idea in there, but the

application I think was very, very unhelpful. Are there any, this might be a good way to end. I can tease this at the beginning. Are there any old school PUA moves that actually to this day you might still say, you know, that's pretty good. Here's mine. I actually still use this in my coaching. The push-pull, you probably know what the push-pull is. The push-pull is essentially a compliment

combined with a tease. You know, oh my God, you're so cute. You're such a dork I don't know if I should ask you out or call you my kid sister that kind of thing that actually does work and I still think you can do that in a way that's that's fun and not toxic that's my favorite old-school PUA move do you have any that we're thinking yes absolutely I've got one I stand by today it's the three second rule Oh, yeah

You're interested in three two one off you go count yourself down go for it because again It's putting you in a space of taking action and not overthinking and for that I would say three second rule I think is stood the test of time. Mm-hmm And I I learned this from my old coach. I did a program in London circa 2010 Me who knows I might have met you one time. I was like, exactly. It's possible. But this was not pick up move so much

as just a fun little banter. Playing around with accents. I would walk up to women in London and I would see if they could do a good American accent. And then I would tease them if they couldn't do it. I would walk up and say, okay, repeat after me with an American accent and then I would tease them if they couldn't do it. I would walk up and say okay repeat after me with an American accent. I would like to pay for this cheeseburger with my credit card and then she would try to do an American accent and then I would tease her, fuck with her for that and it

worked pretty well actually come to think of it. Not that I can do a good British accent but that's my London story. Well I think maybe off of you know not to throw names around but off days you that I can do a good British accent, but that's my London story. Hmm. Well, I think maybe off, off, off, you know, not to throw names around, but often as you will have, you'll have to tell me more about your stories because I think I was, I was very deep into the pickup industry, London 2010, um, with all the big, you know, all the old great companies of that time. And as I said, I feel that there was some good, some bad, there was

definitely some ugly, but for guys now I would say like, I know dating advice can feel like an area that you're like, Oh, do I have to do that? Is that a right thing for me to do? Again, it's like, it is, I think, approached in the right way. It can be an amazing form of personal development. It can be incredibly confidence building, incredibly empowering, and also it's your life. So putting yourself out there to take the risks and build towards getting the relationships with women you want I mean, it's it is a great journey and it's a hundred percent worth it So if you're here and you're curious about coaching go for it We're gonna I'm gonna tee you up to talk about your coaching

I have one last little anecdote from London and this is where my heart is with Every man who ever coached me, even the ones who were unintentionally gross. I was with my event coach in London and I was sort of auditing his program. I wasn't actually taking it. And he and I were chatting and we look over and he goes, oh, look over there. It's my old client, Phil, Philip or something maybe. And I look over and I see this tall, beautiful woman wearing overcoat glasses. She's got that, she's being gamed by this guy, right?

She's got sunglasses on, she's glamorous, she's attractive and she's giving him that look of, all right, I'm liking what I'm hearing. And then the man who was talking to her was a young man of color in a wheelchair. And this was a young man in a wheelchair. I didn't even meet him. But the image of this young man in a wheelchair with the resourcefulness and the courage to go up to a woman and shoot his shot when he has every reason to feel like he's limited and why bother?

He's in a wheelchair. She's a tall, beautiful woman. And it was going well. That was like so inspiring to me. And if that's what a PUA was able to do for that young man, hey, more power to him. I love that story. I think I love that story. I want to say I think I know exactly who you mean. He was quite famous in London at that that period in time and for the guys out there said meeting women in real life It's the great equalizer. Yeah, date. I can feel a little unequal but life Yeah, no, I'm sorry finish your thought. I didn't mean to cut you off. Yeah, I just said, you know on dating apps

I can feel like some odds are skewed against guys in terms of how those apps are set up and populated But in real life, it's a great, great, great equalizer. If you can pull that lever and present yourself. Yeah. And I think now in 2025, I'm not just saying this as a marketer, I really believe this. I think this is the best time for single men to be out meeting women in real life, because women are just so sick of the apps and online dating. And they're just like, why can't guys just come up to me like a man and make it organic? So to that point, if you would share a little bit about your programs, what it's like to work with you and how you help men in person or,

or not in person, or maybe virtually share a little bit about how that would work. And also of course, where, where guys can find you. Okay, absolutely. So you can find me at HayleyQuinn.com. Thanks for pointing out. It's got two Ys, English spelling. So I have two main programs. I've got Virtual Masterclass, which you can join from anywhere in the world.

It is a live program. Like I am actively there, live on Zoom calls coaching you. Nothing I do is a random mass market, I don't know, QA. Everything I do is a random mass market, I don't know, QA. Everything I do is highly personal. I've been coaching for over 15 years. I have, I think, a very, very sharp

and well-tuned step-by-step process to get you from a stage of perhaps just being a bit discouraged on dating apps to actually meeting the women you want, maybe somewhat online, but meeting them in real life, dating them, presenting yourself as the amazing man that you are. It's a six week long progress program. It's super comprehensive. We have a fantastic online learning area. We do WhatsApp discussion groups. You get on the spot advice. It's highly personal. For most, and it runs across four time zones. So for most guys,

especially guys in the States, that's gonna be a great shout for you. However, if you really wanna step it up, and I always say this, if you wanna become, if you're really focused on meeting women in real life, that really excites you. That's where you see the future of your dating life. You're ready for that personal development. In addition to doing the six week online

virtual masterclass program, you can bolt on a four day in person bootcamp with me, mostly in London, but sometimes in New York as well. And I said, there's nothing like it for actually getting out there and developing the tool for putting your notepad down, getting out there in real life and actually going through my tried and tested training exercises. And that's real Academy to find out anything you could just hit the let's chat button on my website, fill in the form and I will personally get back to you.

Well, if you couldn't already tell from this episode, she knows her stuff. And you're probably too much of a gentle lady to say this, but I'll say it. I was checking out your reviews. You have a fistful of rave reviews, 4.8 out of five average for client reviews. If it was five, that would be tough to believe. 4.8 is basically 5 average for client reviews. If it was 5 that would be tough to believe. 4.8 is basically just life-changingly amazing. So you're great at what you do. Haley, thank you so much for being here. You were a treat today. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. And thank you for listening. And by the way, don't forget, your dream girlfriend, she's out there.

Maybe she's in London. Maybe she's waiting for you in Hailey's program. But your dream girlfriend is out there and she's already into you. She's gonna love you, but she's gonna have to meet the real authentic you. So go out there, take authentic courageous action. Carpe Datum. Seize the date. Till next time. you