How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett - You’re Missing Her Signals! Dating Expert Talia Koren on How to Tell When a Woman Likes You

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Odds are, you struggle to read women and you miss subtle signals. This can cost you real romantic connections and leave you second-guessing yourself. In this episode of “How to Get a Girlfriend,” dating coach Connell Barrett talks with insightful dating expert Talia Koren, host of the “Dating Intentionally” podcast. Talia reveals how to recognize when a woman is into you, how to avoid “nice guy” mistakes that kill attraction, and why first-date follow-up is more important than the date itself.You’re About to Learn:03:15: The Best First Date Talia Ever Had—and What the Guy Did Right!07:15: How to Avoid a Huge First-Date Mistake10:15: The Easy Way to Escape “Interview Mode”12:30: How to Show Interest in a Classy, Non-Creepy Way16:09: Why Following Up After a Date is So Important to Women34:40: How to Instantly Feel Confident41:43: How to “Read the Room” and Decode Her Signals42:57: The Green Lights Women Give You to Approach50:59: Exactly How Many Texts to Send Her on Hinge Before Asking Her OutFOLLOW TALIA ON INSTAGRAM:@‌Dating.IntentionallyLISTEN TO TALIA’S PODCAST, “DATING INTENTIONALLY, ON APPLE, SPOTIFY, OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTSBOOK A FREE, 1-1 DATING CONSULTATION WITH CONNELL TO SEE IF COACHING CAN HELP YOU ATTRACT YOUR DREAM GIRLFRIEND:http://www.DatingTransformation.com

how you show up after a first date is really, really important, way more than how you show up on the first date. All right. Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach, Connel Barrett. I'm the real-life hitch if hitch was a skinny nerdy ginger Who has never slapped Chris Rock? I like to help guys date with confidence Make real connections with women and do it by being authentic. No sketchy pickup artist moves needed and today I'm always excited to talk to a fellow dating expert and I love talking to women Who either have dated, are dating, or

in the case of my guest today have gone through the gauntlet of dating and have found somebody wonderful because women know so much about what women want. I'm thrilled to welcome Talia Corran to the podcast. She hosts the Dating Intentionally podcast, which is a really great podcast. Go check it out on Spotify or wherever you get your pods. And Talia shares very insightful, no-nonsense advice to help people like you navigate the complexities of the dating world to not overthink, to have some fun,

have some success, and look at dating as an experiment, which I want to talk with her about. She also has some great yarns to share about going on 64 first dates in under a year, so we're gonna get into that. Talia, welcome to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm so excited to be here, and thank you for that lovely introduction.

I'm excited to get into it. Yeah, we were just talking before I hit record, and you said, oh, I just wanna help people not think so much and underthink and have more fun. So I'm gonna try to take that advice on this podcast. I'm going to get rid of all my 84 questions I planned for you. I'm going to read them all. Actually, no joke, I used to go on first dates back in the day when I was really bad at this. And I had pieces of eight and a half by 11 paper with all these like lines and stories and things to say, I would go into

the men's room in the middle of a break from the date and look at stuff oh my gosh it's reminding me of my grandpa who like literally had flashcards with jokes in his wallet no they're all like the typical like jokes you would get just open up any joke book and it's like the most obvious you know thing you've heard a million times. Yeah. Grandpa jokes? Yeah.

Nice. I mean, look, if that's where you, everyone has to start somewhere, right? Yeah. If that's where you're starting, look at where you are now, I mean, it's okay. Okay, so 64 first dates. This is the one planned question. Nothing else will be planned. You have my word.

This is my one planned, or at least planned topic. The 64 first dates, I like to look at extremes. Do you remember, what was the ESPN highlight moment, the best first date you had? And if you don't say your husband, you're probably going to be in trouble. Look, I can't say it was my husband. I think that's kind of the point. Look, on my podcast, I usually talk to women and I think the advice does differ here where it's like sometimes you don't immediately feel the spark or it's just an first date, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to go somewhere. In terms of if we're just looking at first dates, my favorite first date was with someone

I only had that one date with, but he basically planned to pick up a bunch of pastries at a cafe he loved and we had a little picnic where we tried all of the pastries. And it was just so easy and cute and like it was a nice day. He it was his idea and we just got to like talk about the pastries and try different ones. It was very relaxed. I loved it. That's great.

You can't go wrong with pastries. Oh, it was a great idea. I think you should steal it if you're listening and you went you can eat gluten. Did he did were you two talking about pastries leading up to the date or was it something that he just know you're talking about cafes in Seattle. And he wanted to introduce me to his favorite one. What I loved about dating in Seattle was I'm not from there I'm from New York and so dating helped me Explore the city more that was really why I wanted to date was part of my social hygiene

It was part of my like just how do I get to know the city better? So a lot of guys introduced me to great places that I fell in love with even if it didn't go anywhere I learned some new great recommendations. What was the best pastry you had on that date? Oh, I don't remember. I mean, I love just a plain croissant. I don't know. I'm like, I like the classics like vanilla ice cream, plain croissant. You really can't go wrong. You have to appreciate the simplicity. I went to Paris this last summer with my girlfriend, Jess, and we took a croissant making class It takes so long to make a croissant like it's like a four or five six hour process if you do it from scratch Yeah, doesn't it make you appreciate it more? Yes. Yeah every time I see a croissant

I now think that's so much fucking work and I also think oh my girlfriend and I did that together So I feel very cuddly and warm about it. But also like, Damn, I don't want to put that much effort into baking. Paris so romantic. That sounds amazing. Yeah, yeah, it was sort of an anniversary trip that we took. And, and I took up baking for New Year's. I'm now baking for her almost every Saturday. That's so sweet. Yeah. Did you make any, have you made or abandoned any New Year's resolutions so far? Oh my gosh. I don't, I'm not a resolution girl.

I'm a mantra person. So I every year have like a little mantra to keep in mind and this year's mantra is very simple. It's what if I can? Question mark. Okay. What if I can do that? What if I can do the thing I am wanting to do? And that's a very, been a very powerful, even at the gym I'm like adding on weights to like my squat. I'm like, what if I can, what if I

can just do this extra five, 10 pounds? And it really gets me through. Yeah. Yeah. It's optimistic. It's, it's hopeful. Yeah. So that's my resolution this year. I wish that I back in the day of my dating struggles, which you know a little bit about, you've been nice enough to check out a couple episodes of this here pod. I used to think well what if the sky falls when I go up to that woman or what if on that first date she thinks I'm I'm lame or boring. I think it's so easy. Go ahead. Yeah what if it works out? You got to flip it. I think it's okay to have those thoughts like I think like it's so easy. Pardon? Go ahead. Yeah, what if it works out? You got to flip it.

I think it's okay to have those thoughts. I think it's fine to go into things being like, what if it fails? But then you have to get into the practice of like, let's flip it. Let's just for every what if it fails, do the counter. What if it works though? Yeah. Yeah. What if, right.

What if she likes me? Yeah. What if I make her laugh? What if it goes great? Exactly. What if you get married? Right. Or what if it's a disaster, but you have a hilarious story? Yeah Which I'm sure you have some any good any good disaster stories or just but boy that guy was weird stories from your 64 For sure. So my my worst first date in contrast see, okay

The the best one I described was like short and sweet I love a short first date and that's usually what I recommend to people for the first date. Keep it like more like a vibe check. It shouldn't be longer than like an hour. I mean, you can always extend it, but go into it being like this will be an hour. The worst first date I went on was a dinner first date and this was someone I had a phone call with before. We had a screening call.

So we chatted for like 45 minutes before we had our first date. And then he took me to a restaurant. He wanted to get drinks, appetizers, dinner, dessert, the whole thing. I broke my own rule and said yes to this. And he didn't ask me one question. No, he asked me one question when we had drinks and didn't ask me another question. Not only did he not ask me another question, every time I asked him a question, he would start taking a bite of food. And I had to try, I of food. It was so awkward. I had to start trying to

time my questions around his eating, but it's still like he would I'd be like, so like do you have any siblings? Whatever. And then he'd like eat and I was just like hanging in the air. It was so awkward. It was the most exhausting. Hold on, let me finish chewing this hot dog before I ask you more of this question. Sorry. And then at the end of the day, we were sharing dessert. I was so ready to go. I'm like, God damn, he wants dessert.

We're sharing these churros, and there's a little left. We had a whole dinner and drinks. I was full. And he's like, are you going to finish that? I'm like, no, no, I'm good. And he started doing that food pushing thing on me, and I hate that. Oh, don't waste it. I'm like, I'm good. I'm not hungry anymore. Why don't you eat it? And it was the worst. And he had the audacity to ask me out again and I was like, how are

we on the same date? Yeah. I feel like there's a, there's these two extremes men tend to fall into, these two extreme polarities of asking only questions, being interrogated like you're in the back room of the NYPD. Or in this case, this guy just, was he talking at you? Was he talking about himself? Was he talking about how his food was tasting? What was he talking about? He was barely talking.

Oh really? He would answer the question very succinctly and not even be like, what about you? So I would just pick it up as if he did ask me that and just start sharing my answer. I'm a pretty good conversationalist. I can pretty much talk to anyone and I can feel comfortable pretty much talking to anyone, but sometimes it is a struggle and it wasn't fun. I think my whole thing with dating is I want it to be fun even if it doesn't go anywhere. I think with women we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We

have our biological clock. There's a lot of pressure to make sure it goes somewhere, but I figured out that if I just focus on being in the moment, having fun, I don't have to worry about that as much and I can still just enjoy my time. Great. What's your blueprint for fun? What's fun for Talia on a date back when you were single? Yeah, I mean even now with my husband it is I think really talking about things I like talking about and also finding the common threads that we both like talking about is the fun part. Also just being in the environment, being in the moment, noticing what's going on around you, talking about that. I think dating is not fun when you go into that interview mode, when you're trying to figure out, okay, what's not going to work about this? Where is the thing?

Where is the red flag? Where is the deal breaker? It's the search for what's wrong with us. When it could just be, what are we going to bond over? What's a weird thing that most people wouldn't know about you? That's what makes it fun for me. Common things you're both interested in. Yeah, and even with my husband now, I'm going to, on our dates, and we still date, we're

married, we still date, I'm going to bring up things like Star Trek and things that he's interested in because I want to make sure he's having a good time too and I don't like right, you know I want to make sure we're connecting on things You don't have to just have these deep conversations about our relationship all the time, which is a trap I think a lot of couples fall into talking about the relationship And the future yeah, yeah, I think that I'm And the future. Yeah. Yeah. I think that I'm, my girlfriend and I haven't fallen into that trap yet.

I don't think we will. But what I remember about when I first met Jess, to your point of topics that the other person is interested in, that's really important empathy and a calibration to, okay, what are they going to enjoy talking about as much as me? And I let it out somehow. I'm a huge Beatles nerd. Like I know every Beatles song. Oh my God, pretty much. And I remember Jess was texting me, we're two or three dates in still very much courting but really liking each other. And we had really good banter. And I remember she would just send me these little Paul McCartney updates. She's like, hey, look, Paul's touring.

Are you going to see him this year? Or oh, there was a Netflix special for Paul. And as a dating coach, I knew what she was probably doing with some intentionality. Not that that didn't hurt it at all. I found it extra heartening because I could see that she was really putting in that effort to make it about things that I cared about and I certainly tried to return the favor. That's one of the I think most underrated way to show interest of someone is by showing interest in their interests and I think that it's a really

great way for anyone listening to show interest in someone without going over the top. It's so it's so such a warm fuzzy feeling when I bet you felt amazing when she was bringing these things to you about Paul McCartney and the Beatles, because you're like, wow, she listens to me, and she's engaging with me. This is a bid for affection right now. No, it made my day. And I certainly tried my best to do the same.

So I try to take my own advice when I'm single and dating, which it's been a while now, but one of the, to your point about topics and maybe to an extension, that would be the tone, the vibe of a good feeling first date. I tell my guys, tell me what you think about this. Maybe you have your own tip on this for women. Curious how you guide and instruct women.

But I tell my guys, imagine there's a little director in your head, there's a little Martin Scorsese. There's a little Steven Spielberg up in your brain watching the date. And if it's good topic, if it's a good vibe, just keep let it roll. Don't get in the way. And if you notice, oh, we've been talking about politics for 10 minutes, or I've been droning on about Bitcoin for an hour, maybe it's time to go cut, let's change the scene. What do you think about that? Yes, I think having the awareness is really important. It's a tricky balance, right? Having the awareness of both being present in the day and what you're talking about, and also realizing, oh, we've been talking about Bitcoin for 30 minutes or whatever,

then it's probably time to switch it up, ask a question about them or bring up something you are really excited to talk about that's something different. Yeah, I agree. I mean, when I had my first date with my husband, we talked a lot about his work and my work and I published a book, he has a PhD. We were comparing notes on the things we've done. But that's all I remember about our first date. You know what I mean? We had our first date, I literally thought I would never hear from him again. Why?

Why did you think that? I don't know. I think it was a virtual first date. So it was like how we're talking right now. It was literally on it was a virtual first date. So it was like like how we're talking right now it was a literally on a computer like this and he was moving to Seattle from the Bay Area and I just had this image in my head of him like just lining up a bunch of virtual first dates I just kind of to like dip his toe in the water to see what's going on in the dating pool out here and

Like I'm never gonna hear I just had that feeling but he was very persistent. How so? How did he show that persistence? I love talking with this. I think it's a great example for guys because he was, we texted after, I think how you show up after a first date is really really important, way more than how you show up on the first date. So you're texting after, he didn't text me every day but every day, but he did text me every few days. And I was like, oh, I guess he's still interested. I was just kind of surprised. And I was rolling with it.

I wasn't sure. I was like, I don't know if I like this person yet. But he's persistent. I didn't see any red flags. So let's keep going. And he kept asking me on these phone call dates until he eventually moved. It was like a month of that.

And I just really appreciated his confident persistence. phone call dates until he eventually moved. It was like a month of that and I just really appreciated his confident persistence. He didn't he didn't try to move things forward too quickly. He didn't bring up sex which was like a huge green flag, huge. And he just kept asking to spend time with me which was awesome. Okay you probably already answered this question, but I can hear my listeners saying, Connell, go back. She said something I must know about more about you just said that how a guy follows up after a first date is more important than the

date itself, the first date itself. Yep, women are going this is your TED talk, or I want to hear it right now. Give me a give me a close notes. So here's the thing, I think anyone can do the first date song and dance. You know what I'm talking about. It's like you show up and you're charming and you can ask questions and you have your story about yourself and all those things. You can be like, oh, this is so fun. I can't wait to see you again or whatever. Okay, then women want to see follow through on that. So if you're ending a date and you say,

this is great. Let's do it again. You need to follow through on that and you need to send a text within, ideally within like an hour after the date, up to 24 hours is fine. It says like, hey, that was great, let's do it again. That's it. That's the text. Okay, devil's advocate. But isn't that needy? Isn't that trying too hard? No, Connell. That makes you stand out in a dating culture that's full of flakiness. But I don't want to be thirsty, Talia. No, you got to be thirsty. I say this to women too. This is my whole thing. If you're interested, show interest. You need to get over it. You need to get over that. And I'm over here, guys, I'm in your corner. I'm over here telling women to do the same thing. This isn't like

only men need to do this. Everyone needs to do this. Yeah, everyone does. Yeah That's fantastic. Absolutely. So so some tips here for the post first date really the real work starts after a really good first date Yeah, the important work so follow up within 24 hours Don't be afraid to send that text within minutes or an hour of the date. It's awesome It's so attractive when you do that. It's it's really huge turn on and if okay, I also want you guys to know like or an hour of the date. She's not going to be turned off by this. And if she walks away being like, I don't think that was the right guy for me, it's not really going to change the outcome of her feelings anyway. So you might as well show interest when you're interested.

Yeah, I think that's a great tip. You struggle with dating, right? Sure, you have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt, the apps don't work for you, and sometimes women put you in the friend zone. It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too. As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone, I owned real estate there.

But I escaped. Using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love. It's what I wrote about in my best-selling book, Dating Sucks But You Don't, and Radical Authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America. And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to DatingTransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call, I'll tell you how my one-on-one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend

And you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity No creepy pickup tricks needed so go to dating transformation calm Book a free call today and let my personalized coaching help you get a great girlfriend. I think that the sticking point for guys is, well, I don't want to come off as needy. I don't want to come off as too try-hard. And what I say to them is, I say, don't worry about how much you text. Worry about that your texts are at least trying to make her smile. They're trying to give her something. They're trying to extend the date in a sense.

You're not asking for anything. You're not sending her 12 dick pics. You're just extending the good vibes and making her smile. And if you're giving her something that she values, within reason, assuming it's relatively 50-50, 60-40, back and forth, you can text as much as you want. I agree.

I think the most important thing, though, in addition to what you're saying, is get that next date on the calendar. No one wants a pen pal. I think men and women both do this where we're texting a lot and no one's making the move to be like, so when's our next date? And I do think women want the guy to do that, which I find very annoying. But I don't like the general aspect of dating, but I will accept that most women out there who are dating men do want the guy to extend the follow-up invitation for date two if there's interest. Okay, so let's go back to the first in real life date.

Let's go to your first in real life date with your now husband, who I understand is a ginger. Who I met on Hinge. Oh,hinged okay great yeah and so he followed up after that video date and then was the in real life date next? No we had so we had four virtual oh dates basically because it was he was a month out of his move and I would not have pursued anything with him if he didn't already have a job and apartment in my location. It wasn't like he was exploring. He literally was moving.

A lot of people do this. You're about to move. You get on the apps in the city you're moving to to check it out. I did that. It's normal. And he was good on him for actually making time with me, even though it was virtual.

So he moved. I planned our first date because he was new to the city. I had already been there for three years, for two years. And we met up at a brewery near my place. And if you're listening in Seattle, it's a Fremont brewery, which is amazing. Great date spot. And we had a beer. Then we took a walk.

There's like a park nearby. And then we got Boba after. I wanted to extend the date because I was having a good time talking to him. He made me feel comfortable and safe. He didn't go for a kiss even though I knew. I think there was a moment where I'm like, oh, he's going to try and kiss me. I'm so glad he didn't because I wasn't comfortable yet. It takes me a while to warm up always. I'm really glad he kind of read the room. He's just really good at reading the room. Nice. Yeah So it's just noticing your body language the overall vibe and sensing. Okay now is the time or no now is not the time

Yes. Yeah, but I think he was he He understood that I was extending the date and that was me showing interest right like I was like, oh let's like I was like Okay, let's want to go do do this, wanna go for a walk, I'll show you this park. And I think it's like, you don't always need the kiss to show you're interested. You know? There are other ways to be like, I am enjoying this

or I'm enjoying your company. Fantastic. And not to literally make you kiss and tell, but when was the first kiss? Was it the second in real life date? Yeah, yeah, so he followed up for a date too. He took me to a tapas place. Tapas is a great, I would say second or third date because you can really get a set, you can get like have a menu plan. It's not always fun like when you like have a menu and you're like trying to figure out what to order and you can really learn about a lot about someone by how they're ordering I think.

I don't know what do you think? Wait, what can you learn about somebody by how they order? You can learn kind of like what their, I don't know, I'm a big foodie, he's a big foodie, so it's like what your food priorities are, what your flavor profile preferences are, like are they really healthy, are they kind of more indulgent, like, and I also like, do they want to splurge, do they get the most expensive expensive thing or are they kind of hanging out more on the cheaper things? Not that that matters to me, but like you can learn a lot. That's true. Also, it's collaborative at a tapas place. You're doing small plates. You're sharing everything. So it's like it's collaborative on our

third date My girlfriend jess We did a reverse date. We did dessert first. I love that. We said, let's get dessert first. And that was fun. And then we went and we were like, kind of full by the time we went to the nicer restaurant. What I remember about her, and she still this still comes out in her cooking and in her culinary pursuits, is she hates, she's like, we can't, we can't throw any of this food away. It's just wrong to throw food away. But there wasn't enough left to do a take home, so we're basically forcing ourselves

to finish all these. I would enjoy a date with your girlfriend. Yeah, we were. Because I'm like, get it away from me, throw it out, I don't care. We were like a couple of geese that were being force fed for the foie gras. But that told me something about her. It's like, oh, I don't want to waste food. And she loves food. She's a big foodie as well. We talked a lot about food. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great topic to get into. Anyway, at the end of the date, he did go for the kiss and it was definitely surprisingly better than I thought it would be. Because

I, again, I wasn't sure about him. I was very skeptical and neutral and lukewarm on my husband the first three dates. By the end of the third date, I was crushing hard. It took three in-person dates for me to feel the spark, to feel attracted to him. I did not think he was ugly. People think, oh, you're going on dates with people you're not attracted to.

No, attraction for women just takes a little bit longer sometimes. It's different for women. And I think men really need to understand this. We need to feel trust and safe because when we think about it, there's way more at risk for us when we get involved with a man. I don't know if all women really realize that either, but it's like, you're not going to feel immediately attracted to someone and that attraction even if it's immediate can go away as you learn about them if they're a huge asshole. So yeah. So three interesting. I'm not totally surprised but I'm intrigued. So he was a, in terms of relationship material, he was in the maybe category after one or two dates? No he was, I would

say he was actually in the yes relationship material, but it was more like, do I like him? And I had, so my dating journey was focused on my needs. I had a list of five needs that were non-negotiable for me and a partner. And so my agenda in the first three dates, again, I wasn't discussing this with the men I was seeing. This is my personal, internal decision-making. My agenda was, can I figure out if they can meet my needs?

Obviously, figuring that out in three dates is unrealistic, but I wanted to do the best I could. And so by the end of the second date, he's really funny, so he uses humor to deflect a lot. So cracking into his personality was kind of a challenge for me. He might be my twin, long lost twin, younger twin brother. Yeah, they're really similar. So I think he wasn't opening up a lot. And I think in my

head, I was like, okay, if I don't learn what I need to learn about him by the end of this third day, I'm going to move on. But that didn't happen. I asked him very direct questions about what I needed to learn about him and it ended up being a fantastic date. We got sushi and we went to a comedy show. By the end, it ended with a makeout in his car when he dropped me off at home. Then the next morning, he sent me a Spotify playlist and I was like, I'm done. Yeah, you knew. That's great. Can you share one or two of the needs that were important to you? Spotify playlist and I was like I'm done. Can you share one or two of the needs that were important to you?

My most important one I was looking for was someone who has a desire and the means for novelty and that could mean a trip, like travel and bigger trips, but it also could mean trying new restaurants because in my past relationship experience, I have been with guys who were more home bodies who which is fine, but they didn't want to like go try new restaurants. I was in a relationship for six years and my ex just wanted to literally go to restaurants, pick it up and eat it at home. And that's just not me. So I was really looking for guys who wanted to do fun things locally and also of course

like travel and had the money to do that too obviously that was important. So that was a huge one and the other one other big one for me was empathy. So I think that's one on every woman's list should be on every human's list. Just a guy who could understand or at least acknowledge feelings. Okay. As a concept. And I'm curious, so some of these things I assume you were sensing from him, but it sounds like there were others you had to pull out of him or ask him?

Yeah. So the one I remember on the third date was specifically I wanted a guy, I really need someone who's ambitious, right? I think that's another one that a lot of women have and I just didn't hear him talk about his career that much. Okay. And so I made sure on the third date to ask direct questions about his career growth and all that and just like what he wanted to do with his life outside of his career. And that gave me a lot of clarity.

I like that. Yeah. I tell some of my clients and just listeners of this podcast, I hear this from time to time from men. I hear, you know what, I'm just I hear you know what I'm just not you know I don't have I'm not a millionaire. I don't make six figures and I say to them well, okay You might not be super wealthy, but can you share some ambition or do you have some ambition? Is that something you can cultivate because ambition regardless of how much money you actually make that's an attractive trait

It's an important thing right? Regardless of how much money you actually make that's an attractive trait. It's an important seat, right? Ambition could even be like I want to build I want to learn how to build a couch I don't know it could be something that isn't even like for monetary gain Like it could just be like I want to learn this go to learn language. I want to master this instrument That to me is ambition as well. It's not just like I want to advance in my career Absolutely. Yeah, it's good if that's coming out authentically, hopefully it's coming out organically in a conversation. But if it's not-

And by the way, I earn more than every guy I dated. So at the time I owned a different business, I had a completely different thing. And as a business owner, that was just the reality. And I didn't really care about salary. I think I cared more about competence, right, in financial. It's way more important than salary. Interesting. Just knowing that they're competent with money and about money. Yeah.

Okay. Now this is great. I think a lot of men get caught up in the surface level things about, well, what do I say? How do I keep the conversation going? How do I not be boring? And those are all understandable things to make sure you have handled, but the bigger, what I call the big life stuff, the big things that we need to be on the same page about that are basically deal-breakers in terms of things that meet your needs, or it could be things like children or no children, same religion or not. Everybody's got their own blueprint. So I tell them, hey, look, you can't really, really you can't, you can control to an extent

how well you flirt, you can improve your conversation skills. But in terms of like who you are, what you bring to the table, it is what it is and there's ways to amplify it, but you can't change that inherently or else you'd be a fraud. Exactly, yeah. And it's just sort of like, well, this is who I am, this is my ambition, hopefully, or else you'd be a fraud. And it's just sort of like, well, this is who I am, this is my ambition, hopefully, or lack thereof.

Which would be bad. I think when you are looking for a partner, it's all on a spectrum. It's like, no one is going to be hundred percent what you're looking for in any category, right? So yeah, I knew that going in Nice a couple more questions about the 64. Did you set out to do that? Or is that just the number it became? No, that was the number became I was ready to be single for a long time So I got out of the six year relationship. I broke up with him like the day he started talking about rings

I was like, I cannot marry this guy.. I know this is wrong for me on many levels. And I wanted to try a different dating approach. That was my goal. I learned a lot in therapy and I have a completely different new view on who I need in my life. So I set out to practice my dating skills and And just keep going until I found what I was looking for and then stop Yeah, which happened so I was ready to go on a hundred more first dates I was ready to be single for a decade. I was ready, you know that was Okay. Yes I made a plan as for my life as if I never met anyone like that was kind of hot what I had to do and that security helped me have the confidence to just keep going until I met someone I liked enough to focus on them. How did you keep from overthinking? How do you how did you keep with that? I lowered, I didn't because I lowered the stakes. Like again, having that mentality of like, I might never meet someone.

I might be single for the rest of my life. What would the best version of that life look like? Then going into every day being like, I don't need this to work out because I already have this amazing plan for myself. I don't need, and so when you take that, I need this to work out. I need a partner. I'm so alone. I don't need and so when you take that I need this to work out I need a partner I'm so alone I'm so lonely blah blah blah like newsflash you can be lonely in a relationship too. Relationships don't solve everything. So I think that was where I just kind of cared less because and that helped me not overthink things and just have

fun. Yeah. Yeah you were free from needing any given date or any given guy to be the one right. And I don't know how it is for guys, but for women there is that layer, like I said earlier, of the biological clock. Like I want kids, we are planning to have kids. But I also was ready to not, right? I was ready to have a version of my life where I didn't meet anyone and didn't become a mom and cool. Like that is just kind of, you can't control everything. No, for men, obviously there's not the same biological deadline.

But definitely men, whenever there's a birthday with a zero approaching, it's really a big thing for men. And a lot of men think, oh well, you know what, the big 4.0 is here, I guess I'm undateable now. Or the big five O or whatever the number is. I thought 30 was gonna be bad for me, let alone 40 or beyond. No, I think that for men, I feel like in your early 40s

is like the prime time because you can, you have like the widest range of ages you could date at that point. I think so Well, maybe you can talk to my guy listening to this. Oh my god. I'm good. I'm too old. I'm four I'm gonna be 40 soon. I can't do listen listen to me You are a listener to this amazing podcast how to get a girlfriend with Connell. That means you are already scores above the average guy out there in the dating world. If you're in your forties and you're listening to content like this and you're

following what Connell says, you are in amazing shape. Like there are so many women I talk to every day in the late thirties, early forties range who are like, where are all the men? So you have every opportunity to stand out in this age range. Thank you. This, the more you know. You have every opportunity to stand out in this age range. Thank you. Yeah. The more you know. Yeah.

Thank you, Talia. I think also, again, if you're listening and you just did this whole series about approaching in real life, every day I get a message where it's like, where are the men? So if you're listening to this, please follow Connell's advice and go out and practice it because women want you to do this.

Exactly. I told a story in a recent episode, this beautiful, I mean, beautiful person, 15 years ago, nervous, handshaking, Connell walked up with cotton in my mouth and chatted her up in a Whole Foods in the cereal section. And she said, after she gave me her number, like a pep talk, she was kind of like you, she's like a coach. And she said, it's okay, you know what, you can come talk to us. We like it. Yeah. I was like, oh my God, I feel like you're talking to all men.

Listen, even as a married person, even when I was in a relationship, men still approach me. And I always am extremely, like I'm trying to be nice, kind, approachable because I want to encourage more of it even though I'm taken. Like I'm not going to shut people down. I'm still making eye contact, being approachable because I think if a guy comes up to me and has a pleasant interaction, even though I'm in a relationship, hopefully they'll continue to do that until they meet someone. Yeah, guys are so, and I'm not, I'm not judging them because I've, I had every problem there was in the world to have pretty much for a shy nerdy guy. But I remember thinking, I don't want to bother women. I don't want to be that creep. I don't want to be a burden.

But what I learned is actually you're probably going to be creepier if you just stare at her and don't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Either stay away entirely or go take a chance. My girlfriend, Jess, every so often she'll tell me about a guy who chats her up on the subway and she does it through the lens of keep up the good work. I have a boyfriend, I'm in a relationship, but keep up the good work. And she's very friendly. So you can be really nice and and say hey Thanks, but no thanks, but you made my day

Yeah, I also like don't I don't think that if you get right if you learn a woman you're talking to it has a Partner that's like the easiest kind of rejection there is has nothing to do with you You're not you're not supposed to know you're not supposed to automatically know who's in a relationship obviously yes Like I'm wearing a ring. I've been I've been chatted up even with the ring on like notice. It's fine It's it's okay challenge You're supposed to know Who has who is a boyfriend or whatever her girlfriend? Yeah. Yeah Let me ask you about this because I'm just thinking through the lens of what you guys really struggle with and

You you're I think you're a great person to address this Nice guys. Mm-hmm. Do women want nice guys? Do women not want nice guys? Do they want guys who are nice but not too nice? How do you address the whole nice topic? We need to stop talking about nice. We want kind. There is a difference between nice and kind. Nice is surface level, people pleasing, you're probably going to say things you don't mean. Nice is saying, I would love to see you again at the end of a date when you don't mean it, or you don't know. That's nice, we don't want that, we want kind. Which is more considerate, thoughtful, has more integrity, and maybe you're not going to say,

I had a nice, I had a great time, let's do it again if you don't mean it. That's the kind thing to do. say, I had a nice, I had a great time, let's do it again if you don't mean it. That's the kind thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. There's a poll done by, it's a health app called Clue. And it was about five or six years old, but I still send it to my clients to this day. 64,000 women were surveyed and the number one thing they most wanted in a male partner

was kindness. Yeah. Like it wasn was kindness. Yeah. Like, wasn't I? Yeah. I tell people if you don't, if your partner is in kind, you need to break up with them. That is not, you can't have a healthy relationship with someone who isn't kind. And look, my husband, like, he is not, I would not describe him as nice. He is kind.

He's extremely generous with the people in his life. But sometimes he is pretty sharp. And that's like, that's okay. Yeah. Well, that's the edge, the realness that can be really human and attractive. He criticized me on our second date and I was shocked. He what?

He criticized me on our second date. I, well, okay, not me, but I had this other business I mentioned and I was showing him the web app He what? phone back and I was like, what the hell man? So that's an example of like he wasn't negging me, he wasn't like trying to rile me up or anything, he did, but like he was just being honest. Yeah, just being really real and genuine is going to fix most of those little problems that like, oh I'm too nice, well because you're being fake. Yeah, exactly, nice is fake and I don't think anyone wants that, I don't think the guys listening want that from the women they're dating either. And then there's the overcorrection. Oh, I'll just be some alpha fake pickup type

dude which is a terrible overcorrection. Yeah. And I told this story yesterday but yours this will run before I think the other one airs. I once approached a woman in Miami and I was just in a really good mood. I feeling really friendly and kind and and just happy and I walked up and I said, you know what I'm gonna say I'm just gonna say exactly what I'm feeling in the moment and I walked up and said hey, excuse me I just saw you I'm in a really good mood. I just want to share it with somebody How's your day going and her eyes lit up like she won the lottery? Yeah, it was incredible She's beautiful. And then because I was there taking a pick-up artist seminar I

got into my head not in my head I went into my head and I thought okay I hooked her now I'll do my 17 pick-up judo moves, neg, statement of interest, pull back this that. Oh no. And I'm watching this, having like an out of body experience as I'm doing all this recited PUA bullshit, and I'm seeing her go from lit up to, to what's going on here. I could just see her losing absolute, not just attraction for me, just social interest.

And she said, after 90 seconds of me talking at her talking at her, she said, well, it was nice meeting you and she walked away. And that was an incredibly painful but powerful lesson. Did you go back to the seminar? Did you learn your lesson? I totally learned the lesson. I absolutely learned the lesson, which is that you can overthink, overplan the whole concept of what I say and saying the perfect thing and game.

It's just it still messes up so many so many men. I think when I talk to people women and men about interacting in real life, it's like start on a friendship level, start with kindness and politeness, and then you can read the room and see where it goes. But like I think everyone just wants to be treated like humans, like people, you know? Yeah, what a concept. Treat people like people. What about, so we talked, oh, let me ask you about approaching. What is your view, what do women think about it in general about a guy who comes up, is there some women just going to shut it down right away because they've had bad experiences sure. women want to be approached in public. But they obviously want men to do it in a self-aware way.

Like you said earlier, it's like not staring, not nagging. It's like walking up like just a human being. And you mentioned so many different ways in previous episodes you've done about just random things you've opened a conversation with based on what the environment is. But yeah, I do think women want people to approach. I get approached in the gym, and the gym is such a controversial place, I think, but I really think more approaching

should happen in the gym. It starts with eye contact. If someone is not making eye contact with you, they don't want to talk to you, and it's really that simple. If they're making eye contact with you several times, or even giving you a smile or a head nod or something, they're open to be talking to you, I think. Right. That's a great tip.

So that's where you want to look for those subtle indicators of some interest, at least social interest. Yeah. If you can't catch their eye, they're just off the table. Because it's a gym and it's a bit of a more of a- And anywhere. Okay, anywhere. Yeah, if you can't make the eye contact, they don't want to be talking to you that day.

That's it. Okay. Yeah. And if you do make the eye contact, then what do you advise men to do? That's a green light. I would say if you do it a few times, I think a few, not too many times, but I think two or three times is good. And then you can just, like you say in your podcast

all the time, you can walk up and introduce yourself. It can be that simple. What are you drinking? What are you reading? What brings you here today? What are you working on? Just that question. Oh, I saw your jacket.

All those simple things. Very, very simple. And I do it all the time. And I am also encouraging women to approach men too, by the way. Really? Yes. Oh my gosh. Tell me about this. They're missing out. Okay. Tell me if we woke up tomorrow like in a Twilight Zone episode and it was up to women to approach men, what would that world be like? What would happen? I think a lot more people will be in relationships right now. Yeah, I really do.

Because I think that the modern relationship is more reciprocal, it's less of the guy leading. I just feel like in your relationship, you're not keeping score of who's texting first and who's initiating plans. Why don't we just start that way? Yeah. You know, like, why don't we just start that way? Why are we overthinking? I was just talking to a woman in my DMs

and she's dating a doctor and she was like, oh, we had plans but he stayed late at the hospital. I texted last, I don't wanna text him again. I'm like, girl, if this is how you're starting your dating experience, how is it going to be in a relationship? If you're keeping score, you're focused on the wrong thing. So I always tell women like, also another reason to approach men is because they don't ever get approached.

That's so rare. And you're going to have, you could be the most awkward, you can be so awkward, it will still work because they're just so happy to be approached. I still remember. Yes. Oh my God. You will. I'm confirming, like am I right? Yes, if any women listening, you will make my year

if you just compliment my jacket. And I'm really trying to help women understand this. Yeah, we love it ladies. Oh my God, we love it so much. I still remember, I was on the subway 10 plus years ago and I was with my nephew and niece, of all people. They were visiting me from Ohio here in New York, and they were visiting me.

When my nephews and nieces turned 16, I brought them to New York and gave them like a fun uncle. Cute, oh my god. Broadway. I did that with my uncle. So cute. Yeah, I'm the fun uncle.

And I remember we were on the subway, and a very attractive woman started to chat with me. And I remember we're on the subway and a very attractive woman started to chat with me and I remember what she said the conductors is back when they were actual humans speaking over the over the the speaker system not recordings and The conductor had some kind of exotic accent and she looked at me and smiled and she said something like oh wow Did you hear his accent? I think it's from Jamaica. And it was so wonderfully random that I realized, oh she's just trying to find a reason to talk to me. And she smiled and it was a nice present

conversation. I had a girlfriend at the time so it didn't go anywhere, but I was walking around for hours, especially because my nephew saw cool Uncle Connell. He's like, girls go up to you all the time, right? I'm like no, once every five years. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm all about it. I think I also took that same approach on hinge, right? I pretty much only went out with men I messaged first because I am the I want to be the chooser. I don't want to be chosen. I wasn't trying to be chosen. A lot of women are. Okay. I would be speaking of hinge, I'd be remiss if I didn't trying to be chosen. A lot of women are. Okay. Speaking of

hinge, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you a couple dating app questions before we wind up. You met your now husband on hinge, you said, right? Yep. You matched, obviously, and who messaged whom first? I messaged him first. He said his profile was pretty boring and basic. It was filled out properly, fully. He looked normal. That's what I was looking for. I'm like, you look normal and you put effort into your profile. It doesn't have to be witty. It was the most dry profile, but he's really funny. So he said he liked audiobooks. I was like, what are you listening to right now? We talked

about audiobooks for a while. I was in Hawaii when I messaged him, so we talked about me being in Hawaii. I kept being like, so what are we meeting for coffee? I will do that because I'm not going to message you for weeks. If he asked me a question, I would be like, okay, let's talk about that over coffee. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge. Let's get the plan going. I had to do that three times because he was stalling because he wasn't in Seattle

yet and then he landed on the video date thing. So yeah. Great. Well, he finally got the hand, took him long enough. Yeah. Yeah. So he took a few tries. He was like, let me get your number.

We'll go from there. So that's how a lot of my conversations went. I would message first, see if they could have a normal conversation without making any lewd comments, being rude, being weird. Can you just have a normal back and forth without making it weird? And if I wanted to, yeah, go ahead. Oh, sorry, I could finish your thought. If I wanted to, if they passed that test, I would say like, hey, let's thought. If I wanted to if I if they if they passed that test

I would say like hey, let's meet and I have no problem I always tell them like stop waiting for the guy just like be like hey, let's meet. It's just yeah It's just more efficient. I think It's just like who has the time to wait for every guy to be like, let's go on a date If you want a date just go for it Preach it I went to you want to date, just go for it. Preach it. I went to Stockholm once as a then student of these pick-up

dudes, one of the better ones, one of the more gentlemanly, if you want to call them that. And I was blown away by how women in Sweden are just really progressive and take charge. And this woman's like, hey, do you want to go back to my place, have a drink? I was like, my god, could you please come to America and teach women to do the same thing? I loved it. Yeah.

So anyway, I love when a woman does that. Still, I want guys to lead that dance. Or let's be ready to. Yes, it's both. I think both need to step up and step into that space. And it's not like either or, it is both. But you mentioned the W word. I hear that a lot, weird. I don't wanna be weird. I don't wanna be a creep, I don't wanna be weird. What is your definition of weird? Let's talk about maybe messaging on a dating app like Hinge.

What's your definition of weird when you hear from guys? Really the biggest giveaway is anything if they, you can give a physical compliment, but if it's anything sexual or Anything about my body Unclothed like that's just an immediate. No, it's an immediate. Okay, you're looking for a hookup, which hey, no shame in that I'm just not looking for that. So and you can look for a hookup in a way that doesn't involve her body parts, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah, totally and I did I did have hookups off the apps like that is totally fine. No shame No, so I think also making it weird,

I mean one time a guy sent me a Spotify playlist in Hinge that, again, I was like, I really don't understand, is this a joke? It was just a weird playlist. Like you could send, it could have worked if it was like, I made, like here are some of my favorite songs right now. Cool, we could talk about that. But like, that was weird.

I mean, just anything that just, we just want normal. We just want like a normal, let's just talk about. And I always tell women like, you're making small talk, just see, just have a couple back and forth messages. It doesn't need to be more than like five to ten messages back and forth before you move to a date. Yeah. And you can kind of vibe, well, it's not even a vibe. In your case, there are very clear indicators that you wanted something to happen. Like, hey, let's talk about this over coffee. One of my very first crushes, back when I first was intentionally

working on my dating life, she would say things like, oh, oh, you're out of town for the weekend. I guess you won't be able to get that drink till next week. Ask me out, dude. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly exactly. Yeah I think that's a big frustration I hear from women is like they're not asking me out they're not asking me out so I just I can't control what they're doing. I'm

talking to the woman in this scenario so I'm like okay say that you want to meet that's all you can do in that moment. Yeah. Or you just wait forever and be frustrated. So to de-weirdify a guy's hinge conversation or his profile, no sexual talk unless you're both clearly into that. I think some guys are like, well, what if she's not into sex? Just trust that it'll get there. You need to make her feel safe and comfortable first. There needs to be trust first.

That's the first step is just show that you're a safe, trustworthy person because there are so many creeps out there, people with bad intentions. Every woman you've talked to, every single one I can guarantee has had a bad experience with a guy. So they're on guard and that's unfortunate. So that's what you need to remember when you're talking to any woman.

Like, yeah. So desexualize your conversation, at least early, until it organically builds to that, if it does. There's nothing wrong with just sticking to the basics of what's on their profile, what's in your profile, what's in her photos. Does she have a cool photo where she's standing on a cliff on a hike or with a horse? I don't know, just ask about the pictures.

Stay away from what are you doing this weekend? How's your week? Those are boring. You don't want those either. No one wants to talk about that. Stay away from what are you doing this weekend? That's fine. At least you showing that interest or the showing that intentionality Yeah, I have yeah some people and I always tell women like don't it's not an immediate red flag If they ask for the date like in the first message You can just say like let's chat a little bit more here or let's have a phone call and then We'll see about the date like that's fine

Yeah, do you putting you on the spot a little bit? But do you remember? Do you remember? The wittiest or maybe not the wittiest but a really good creative opener from Hinge that just got your attention back when you were on your 64 dates or other times? I don't but I can share a dumb line that worked on me for a hookup. Okay, even better. Go on. And I don't know if this will work on other women, but it worked on me. So I was talking to this guy from Tinder, and he was very attractive, and he was like,

I think we made out in a bar one time in the Lower East Side. And he already learned that I was from New York. And I'm like, that could have happened in my head. Like, that definitely could have happened. I used to go out in the Lower East Side. Who did it? I was like I don't know and that totally worked on me. Was this his opener or was this in the conversation? No, it was like a little bit more in the conversation. But I was like did we? It was definitely a line. Yeah, you know what, I was definitely in, I think some women are going to be in the mood to have that kind of conversation and some won't be and that's okay, you know what, I was definitely, I think some women are going to be in the mood to

have that kind of conversation and some won't be and that's okay, you know, whatever. What is your definition of a good online dating opener? Let's say a guy matches with you or a single woman on Hinge and he's going to take that first swing. Yeah. Any quick tip there for our guys? I really think it's about the profile. Show us you've read it and show us you have read the things we wrote

Not just the pictures be like, oh you mentioned you love horror Movies have you seen did you see the new NOS for a chill? Like I don't know Whatever. So that that's the I think the winner don't say hey cutie. Don't say hey beautiful I think you can use the name like hey Charlotte, whatever winner, don't say, hey cutie, don't say, hey beautiful. I think you can use the name, like hey Charlotte, whatever. The names is fine, but don't come in with a hey beautiful. Women are getting copy pasted first messages. It needs to be specific. So make sure you read it back to make it like okay is this specific to her profile or could I have sent this to anyone? Yeah, if you had could have sent it to anyone that's not there's a no-go

Great tip. I think just having a really good profile makes your opener work so much better than yes Yeah, like if I tell my guys they get so hung up on all the perfect opener witty perfect Everything and then I wanted to be as good as reasonable, but I don't want it to sound like an opener. I want it to sound just like a nice simple conversation starter. But what I think is going to make it work is, oh, the overall profile of this gentleman fits within reason what you, what she might be looking for, right? And yeah, you can't, you can't take, like you're saying earlier, you can't tailor your profile to what someone else wants. I think you've got to tell your, tell your profile to what someone else wants. I think you've got to tailor your profile for the person you're trying to attract.

And what you also like, my view on profiles is that they're a conversation starter. They're not supposed to encapsulate your entire personality. You can't. So pick three things that you enjoy talking about that you care about, and hopefully you'll attract people who care about those things too, or have opinions on them.

Okay, I'm going to make up some final fun questions for you. I'm ready. There aren't even dating advice. I'm just going to be stupid. Okay. If you were single, who is the male famous person you would love to be right swiping on you and messaging you? Oh my gosh.

Living dead anybody. It could be Winston Churchill. Stanley T.G. Okay. Why? He's got it all. dead anybody, it could be Winston Churchill. Stanley Tichy. He's got it all. He's attractive and he's a foodie. I mean he's traveled, he's classy. I think he also has a bunch of content about going down on women. Really? Stanley Tichy does? Okay.

Yeah, I think so. Or there's some kind of meme about that. So that's what came to mind You know, so he'd be a good lover probably So that's the first person I came to mind I like it what What famous deceased person would you love to have right swipe on you if they were let's say they were alive For me like who's dead? Yeah, who's say they were alive. I'm trying to think. For me it would be- I'm like, who's dead? I know, go ahead. Yeah, who's dead and hot?

That's the question. Who's hot and dead? I'm going to pass. I really can't think of anyone that I would really want. It's like I don't, I'm not a rock star person. I wouldn't want to date a rock star. You know what I mean? Those are the people I can find who are dead and attractive. I'm not a rock star person like I wouldn't want to date a rock star I mean like those those the people I can't find who are dead and like attractive and like I wouldn't actually want to I'm

Not a party girl like I am more like I'll adjust the question answer to make it easier on me. I'm gonna go Stevie Nicks Fleetwood Mac like in the prime. I like the whole witchy woman vibe. She had yes. I'm into it Let's play swipe right swipe left. I did this with the guy who invented right swiping. And it was fun. He swiped right on Minnie Mouse. I thought that was fascinating. Okay, this is just things you like swiping right or left on baking shows. Right. The Great British Breaking Show is such a fun, easy background watch.

What about you? Crime Scene Kitchen is my favorite show. Also, pause here. My computer is very low on battery, so we should Where can my guy get more info and some insight from you? Yes, you are welcome to slide into my DMS anytime at dating dot intentionally on Instagram Fantastic and please check out her podcast is really good and I'm gonna check out your Instagram as well, which I haven't had a chance to yet But I think it's not to my podcast soon. Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't we're gonna swap. I want to grill you Please do you ready?

You know, it'll be my pleasure. I can't wait to talk to you and thank you for joining me and thank you for listening There are only 9 million podcasts out there and you listen to mine for like an hour. Thank you. That was amazing Don't forget your dream girlfriend is out there. She just has to meet the real you the authentic you so go out there and take action Carpe Deium until next time