How We Got Away with Murder - 115: It’s All My Fault (w/ Katie Findlay)

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Katie Findlay is back, jet lagged from Italy and still saying ciao like they never left, to help recap the Season 1 finale, and it's a banger. Loyalties get tested, paranoia peaks, and the truth behind Lila's murder is finally revealed (at least to the audience). Annalise puts Rebecca on trial and then comforts Wes with a creepy chant, and through it all, we still have no idea what “Eggs 911” could possibly mean. The Lila flashbacks appear in full force: Lila dangling her feet off a roof, Griffin's confusing relationship to celibacy, and the moment the killer decides Lila is going to die.  Katie reflects on rewatching a Rebecca they barely recognize anymore, crying through their final scene with Alfie knowing it was the last one they'd film, and the "white queer reckoning" moment that came with watching the show back. We get to see Asher and Bonnie in bed with incredible lighting, Michaela holding her own in a tense scene with Aiden's mom, and find out why both Katie and Rebecca ride for Bonnie Winterbottom. The episode ends with a gut punch that had Matt in tears. Plus, Jack's panic after texting the wrong Billy about the show, why his League of Legends gamer tag was "Kill Connor," a Reddit theory about three versions of Lila's death getting debunked, a full look back at Season 1, and the question everyone keeps asking...could the show ever come back? This is part one of a two-part finale; go listen to part two to hear our final thoughts on Season 1 of How To Get Away with Murder!We want to hear from you! Let us know what you thought of Season 1 at [e-mail] Matt & JackIG @jackfalaheeTIKTOK @jackfalahee X @RestingPlatypus REDDIT u/ItsMeJackFalaheeIG @mattmcgorry TIKTOK @matt.mcgorry X @MattMcGorry Facebook: @ActorMattMcGorryThank you to our sponsors:Hero Bread: This year, hit your goals without giving up your favorite bready dishes. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code JACKANDMATT at checkout.Omaha Steaks: Go to OmahaSteaks.com and use promo code JACKANDMATT at checkout for $35 off. Minimum purchase may apply.This podcast is brought to you by Podcast Nation. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you hey everyone my name is matt mcclory and i played the character asher millstone on how to get away with murder. And I'm Jack Falahee, and I played Connor Walsh on that very same TV show. And this is the How We Got Away With Murder podcast. Hello. Hey, pal.

Hey, bud. I'm doing well. I'm doing good. I'm doing swell. I didn't ask you yet, but okay, how are you? Okay, are you good? I'm okay. I actually, I showered. I went to the gym, and then I

uh i came home to shower and i was listening to one of our episodes that were in the process of editing right and i got into the shower listening to the episode and started showering it really as my airpods were in my ears and oh my god i was so engrossed in my own voice wow that i got into the shower wearing airpods they're not water resistant are they i don't know man i took them I caught it pretty quick, but I was like, what am I doing? Locked in. That's really wild. Oh, my God.

I was just thinking about in England, you know, they'll say like, you all right? Which always struck me very interestingly because I feel like it doesn't leave any room for no, really. Right? You know, it's like, it's like, just like, just making sure you're all right. Like, I guess it's like a you good sort of thing. But you good kind of feels a little like passive aggressive, too. You know? Well, I mean, they're just so polite that they're just like, I guess no one would say no anyway, even if they weren't doing well. Yeah, that's right. Better to keep up the mirage. Right. Well, hopefully people are listening and maybe someone's even listening in their shower. Yeah, maybe. Like me. Yeah. Because we have an absolute banger of an episode. We are recapping the season one finale of How to Get Away with Murder.

and not only and not only that we have a very special guest who's recapping with us that's right tag team jumping from the rafters jumping from the rafters wwe style we have katie finley joining us hey katie how you doing i'm good i think i have to be the one who jumps because i'm little that's fair okay if that helps uh you have a little flying squirrelishness i imagine like you can catch a little a little breeze and maybe coast for a moment it's true i have an unnecessarily long reach that's fair and your lats are really wide thank you yeah for sure you're right for that yeah so i was gonna say you good in canada you good has like aggressive connotations right that's yeah that's true in new york someone is someone staring at you you good

right it was like go be good somewhere else right right right yeah true although i will say i i was just in london and someone said you're all right wow as a thing or telling you like they're telling you or i was like oh yeah you know what i am no that's nice i am i was right oh no you know what it was i was getting on a plane and they said the full sentence huh they said hi are you all right and i was like that's a big question no right are you right right anyone right how in what sense mean this yeah and speaking of which how are you i'm okay i'm um i'm very jet lagged i just got back from uh italy for a little while uh so i'm the asshole who's still walking around saying ciao because if you forget and don't they hate you yes um did you know it's only it's only

bonjourno until like one o'clock in the afternoon and then it's good evening yeah if you say good day like three in the afternoon they're like wow okay interesting good to know for when i'm back in right my home my homeland your homeland yeah yeah that's right I forgot you're Italian. Yeah. And I did actually manage to Pokemon Snap quick catch an evening with our very own Alfred Enoch while I was there. I know. He exists.

He's real. He's real. How was that? So nice. Alfie is one of my favorite people in the world, despite himself. So it's nice. i was talking about coming back to hang out with you guys and i reminded him of his favorite music cue which is um i'm gonna i'm gonna forget the episode now but there's something i'm coming up

the stairs very dramatically and a bestial song starts oh yeah and alfie when that aired would follow me around singing it truly for hours a day like we'd be sitting in silence on hour 15 or whatever and he would turn to me and go, you, go away. That's so good.

I remember that exactly. We talked about that because he's like waiting at the top of the stairs and he looks like it's like his audition for Bond or something.

Disturbingly handsome at all times. Yeah. Devastatingly good looking. Yeah. He should play Bond. Aren't they casting Bond right now?

I nominate Alfred Enoch. Wouldn't he? He would become insufferable. We would all have to live with him after that though. Yeah. It would be a lot.

But he'd be good. He'd be so good. Yeah. All right. Well, we got a big one today, guys. Oh, God. So big. It is episode 15.

It is the finale of season one. And it is titled, It's All My Fault. It was written by Pete Nowak. It was directed by Bill D'Elia. It aired on February 26, 2015. We shot it in L.A. on January 16th to the 27th. It guest stars Tom Berica as Sam Keating, Lynn Whitfield as Mary Walker, Sarah Burns as A.D.A. Sinclair, Conrad Ricamora as Oliver Hampton, Megan West as Lila Stangard, Lenny Platt as Griffin O'Reilly. We have all of the heavy hitter guest stars from the season.

Did we figure out, by the way, did we guess on who said the title line? We did. You guessed Annalise and I guessed Rebecca. Okay. And then I guess we'll figure out who it is. I still don't know who it is, actually. We will. We will get there. Great.

Why don't you read the log line for us? Why don't you actually, Katie, why don't you read the log line? The log line? It's only one sentence this time, but. Loyalties are tested and secrets unravel as paranoia reaches its peak and the shocking truth behind Lila Stangard's murder is finally revealed. Wow. Nice.

Look at that. Love that. Just put Matt out of a job. Put it on the VO reel. Couldn't ever. That stands for voiceover for everyone in the audience. Thank you. All right, great.

Let's jump in. So we immediately start, notably, without a recap. This is, I think, only the second episode. I think the only other episode is when we return from the midseason finale. So we have another one of these super stylized montages. is we get an extreme closeup of Lila's face as she's being strangled. We get quick inserts of Annalise and the Keating Four arguing over one another. You know, everyone's jumping on top of each other. It's like hyper cuts inside of Wes's apartment. And then we rack focus from Rebecca

to Annalise. So a rack focus is just when it starts on like one person's in focus and then the camera racks and the other person is suddenly in focus so we're on Rebecca's face full clarity Annalise is in the foreground and then we go back to Annalise's face um so we are immediately put back into Wes's apartment and then Annalise has this big shut up which grounds us back into the scene and now things are unfolding in real time yes and that's a chef's kiss shut up I saw Katie doing the oh it's so good it's one of the it's probably one of the best shut-ups to ever grace the screen it's so good because it works I feel like people spend a lot of time yelling on television and I don't buy it yeah anytime Viola raises her voice I go true I also I think

there's like a it's really hard when it's scripted like everyone's talking over each other I find that there's like a trap right in this because like as an actor right when you're when you're saying something as human beings we're saying something we're saying it to be heard right and so if everyone is talking like that like to make it really real you kind of almost have to register that everyone is talking and then you're either adjusting by raising your voice more to be heard more or you know what i mean it's just like it's just such a hard thing and i know that even as an actor when i would see it in our script sometimes i'd be like you know the critical thinking part my brain just shuts off and i'm like i'm just gonna raise my voice i feel like sometimes i

do it for just uh fun too i just start making noise you know just like um but uh yeah you do do that just a technical thing too that you can now pay attention to watching television usually on television shows and in films actors won't talk over one another if it's a single so it's just one person on camera but if you see multiple people in a shot then you can often be given the the space to talk over one another it's just easier for sound when you know if you're talking if I'm talking over Katie's lines when I'm not on screen that's that's a big problem in the edit but in this you see kind of two or three of us or all of us on screen at once and so we so we can kind of talk over one another more actively in the master it becomes a bit more like mini

theater and then as soon as you start chopping it up um if you're talking over someone's lines you're just messing up their take yeah and then they'll have to go into ADR and talk back over themselves so that yeah and can be heard over you you'll see that in how to get with murder where we have these big masters where we're we're much more in the shonda land like very talky talky fast fast over one another i actually was uh i worked with an actor that did shameless for you know like 15 seasons and apparently when they shot that john wells would set up a really wide master in all of the scenes inside the house and basically run it like a theater scene, like a play where they can just do anything they wanted. And they always had this sort of wide master that they would then cut

back to, which is a little atypical, I think for television, but very effective if you watch Shameless. We'll be right back. Now back to class. Is this the first time we see Lila dying, by the way yeah good question maybe i feel like maybe it is okay yeah yeah yeah we've seen like the surrounding environs a bunch of times that i don't actually we've seen her her right or beautiful and her dead yeah but yeah okay so then we get to wes who's been quiet through all of this and you know annalise turns to him and he says everything they're saying is true so and then she follows up with so you think sam might have killed lila and he says sam might have been innocent, which he is obviously grappling with those ramifications that maybe he killed an

innocent man. From there, Annalise walks into the bathroom, slams the door behind her, and boom, we are in the bathroom. Annalise takes the tape off of Rebecca. And after Rebecca promises not to do anything stupid, Annalise is apologizing. And immediately, Rebecca starts screaming for help which i thought is great you know it was a great help too it was a great help what i have written down is one why am i sitting like that i'm sitting in the world's most uncomfortable position yeah to be i don't know why i didn't just like sit with my knees up to my chest insane crazy work yeah and then i also that's real tape so every time tape is ripped off my mouth in this episode they like they did like a magic magic proppy prop thing to try to make it a little

bit less sticky but uh it it did not ever stop hurting uh and also Bill D'Elia drew lips on it for one take which I think should be immortalized somewhere that's so funny that's really funny and I had like a little on the thing that's so funny that's classic Bill D'Elia trying to like add levity to our our work environment as we're doing like an incredibly intense scene you know well that's what I was gonna say like upon pro because I haven't I haven't re-watched this in one million calendar years and upon rewatch like this was a dark fucking show yeah it's just so many people are spinning wildly out of control and i just want to hold everyone's hand and get them out of there and i and i can't that's right that's that's been my experience watching the show

for the first time that it is dark again every time i rewatch i go wow everyone's just like astoundingly good looking sure i just every time there's a poppy pop on someone i go man they Everyone should kiss. Everyone should date on this show. That's like not the point of the show, but it should be the point of the show. I don't know if I've said this before on the podcast, maybe, but I remember once Carla,

which the premise was absurd, but she felt like she was having like a bad hair day or something or she didn't look good, which, you know, insane because she's so glamorous. But I remember turning to her and I was like, Carla, they are never going to put a frame of you on this television show where you don't look amazing. And she looked at me and thought about it for a second.

She was like, oh, you're right. Which was a comfort I took where I was just like, ah, they were selling something on the show. You know, they're not going to make us look bad. Also, there isn't really a frame of Carla anywhere in her life where she doesn't look amazing, even in her real day-to-day, I would assume. So we go from there to the title card

and we pop back to New Haven august 29th 7 p.m and we see sam keating he is in the parking structure that we established earlier in the season the one that nate went to check out when he was trying to get the timeline of where sam was at the conference lila calls lila reveals that she tried to have sex with griffin so he would think the baby was his but he wouldn't and would just instead he just wanted to talk about god which i thought was a funny take and she won't have an abortion i thought tom verica here did a very good job of acting supportive like we we keep talking about how he's the nicest guy ever and he had to play like this horrible villain but and i know i know this is villainous what he's doing

but you see i think the actual tom verica being like an empathetic and and supportive person come out really beautifully here why why was griffin not wanting to have sex with her i mean if he was having sex with other people why god but but only god with with her lying about other people sure yeah but for who i don't know this this as i like to say this bump for me like i i guess it's the idea that he's painting this image of like the star quarterback who's taken like a uh what do they call them a purity yeah like a you know they're celibate until marriage yeah right right and so maybe it's yeah i guess that makes sense i think that a pretty fine point was made about griffin uh selling this guy to everyone but then also being fine to sleep with people

that he sees as lesser than him like the idea of rebecca being i mean we throw this word around a lot but like trashy uh class class big time comes into it so like people that are expendable that right uh uh it he has the go-ahead as long as nobody knows so that right like a like almost interesting because i know that i don't know if this is true or not or if i'd heard this at some point that certain like religious people would who are like wanting to not lose their virginity but would make exceptions for like anal sex is it like somehow that like uh if someone is like not human fully in in this person's eyes then it's not quite like the same it's like another form of like masturbation to say that in a way or he's just a jerk who is lying to you know yeah

whatever and he wants to he wants to have both i guess he wants to have the life where he gets to do whatever the fuck he wants and also where he preserves this probably image of himself yeah is that like you know is that particular person yeah yeah yeah i mean we see him right like doing drugs with Rebecca. Like there's obviously holes in this image that he's publicly painted. So I guess it tracks for me. Yeah, that's fair.

Anyway, Lila says that that plan fell through. We get context of like maybe what Lila and Sam had talked about as far as like, you know, coming up with solutions to this problem. And Lila ends the call by saying that she's going to tell Annalise, which then takes us to AK's house. And immediately I'm like,

how the hell did we get Rebecca out of the apartment building into Annalise's house? Okay. I agree with you. Tom Berica is so good as this guy. It is chilling because he is a kind, nice human man. And as someone raised as a young woman who has interacted with way more grown men

as a young woman than i probably should have been asked to like that hyper reassuring grown-up thing from my perspective makes my stomach churn because it's like it's like dad and husband at the same time you hear his tone shift right and it just i haven't watched it in ages and it just made my ribs like disintegrate yeah can we talk about how funny it is that they were like we have to manhandle an unwilling full-grown person who is five foot nine to a second location we have frank who do we get to take this ball mckayla and connor obviously yeah yeah like i'm sorry i could take both of you yeah wait what did mckayla and connor do in relation they're flanking me walking me into the house looking really angry and asia is is like asia could

probably kick my ass if she wanted to but she's like this petite beautiful yeah holding onto my arm and looking up at me like a redwood yeah yeah exactly well i think i think it's tough for me too that if we establish that rebecca immediately screams and that she's not cooperating then then it really is kind of a leap for me where i'm like oh so she just like you know i'm assuming they don't have i don't know like a carport garage or any you know what I mean, that they had to, like, go out onto the street in Philly. They're like, this is our friend. Right.

Fine. Don't worry about it. Right. But we get to Annalise's. Frank's there. Frank says that if, you know, Rebecca doesn't behave, they'll put her in the basement, which, you know, is sprinkling some breadcrumbs for later. Annalise tells them to untape her hands and that we aren't monsters. Who have you all become?

Which I think is kind of a great, like, season finale question. you know like who who have we all become over the course of these 15 episodes that takes us you know in my mind i was like where's bonnie and then we immediately go to asher and bonnie in bed which just shows you like how quickly the writers think you know and how like they're so in tune with how the audience is going to watch these episodes um like the second i had that that question it's answered you guys look great in this scene i really love the lighting you guys look very pretty the set was like satin sheets or something it's so dreamy and beautiful also anytime lies is not on screen i'm asking where's bonnie because like bonnie winterbottom is the

hardest working woman in show business like that's right god forbid she ever get a break for five seconds to kiss like a beautiful man whatever yeah bonnie is also wearing pearls her pearls in bed. I'm wearing my pearls in honor of that's nice. I wasn't actually but that just occurred to me.

So I'm like I'm going to take that layup. You have this great homeboy needs no help in the snack attack department which I thought was great. Yeah. After like 10 out of 10

enthusiastic pleasure participant we love to see it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That then takes us to Annalise in her office thinking

we see her thinking and we poppy pop inserts of sam lying about lila she's sort of replaying these conversations to try and you know make sense of whether or not he did in fact kill her i thought it was cool sort of like editing style choice of having tom's voice have an effect with like echo and reverb on it so it sort of differentiates from our normal flashbacks and and you know is set apart in oh annalise is actually in real time playing back these memories which i thought was really effective um annalee's thing comes back in and says we're gonna have a trial let's finally give rebecca her day in court

this was maddie i saw that you had a similar note later in the episode but this is when i went where's my labret oh yeah piercing so for me the labret piercing is the one i maybe i'm saying it canadian but it's the one um between like under your lip and your chin um and it i may have said this last time i was here but it's it's magnetized right so i it would just go flying across the room and i i do wonder if we decided to leave it out because i was doing so much like acting yelling and talking to yeah that there was no way to take it on and off my mouth without my labrat coming out but this is the scene that i noticed that it's gone i'm sure that's why yeah yeah you do have it later though and not to spoil i mean i guess if anyone's watched this episode i don't

think they're watching it pausing it and unpausing it as we go along so they've probably seen the whole episode yeah i'm sorry sorry katie but you have it in the water tank later yeah but that's right different yeah of course it's a different timeline yeah yeah but i had everything in the water tank i had my boots in the water tank we'll get we'll get to that we'll get to that i have questions okay i have i have so many answers for you we go from there to august 29th so we're back in a flashback. Annalise and Bonnie in the office. Annalise gets a call from Sam. And this stitches into Lila showing up at the front door. So we see Bonnie come. She goes out to confront Lila. They have that little exchange, which we've already seen. And then Bonnie comes back in and

a new scene continues. She lies to Annalise and says it was a girl looking for Frank. And then we get this quick insert of Bonnie crying to Annalise about knowing Lila was pregnant and keeping it from her, I still, I'm like, why is Bonnie protect Sam? Just because she

has a crush on him, I guess? She's hurt. Yeah. She's a harmed person. Yeah. I think we find out more in subsequent seasons too that there's something more there. Yeah, I think that's probably right. And I think it's good. I think it's like a good that we aren't not everything is resolved you know even at this point like it's still

sort of asking these questions or making people ask the questions right we'll be right back and we're back and then we go into matt's favorite thing we're looking for are talking in the room adjacent to rebecca about rebecca and they're not so often and i just sit there quietly yeah they're not even trying to whisper i i feel like i should have it on record that one lies is amazing bonnie's really scary yeah re-watching this scene i was like oh bonnie can be an incredibly scary person yeah and also rebecca likes bonnie like i look up the second she walks in i i look up and look at her because i was like oh yeah we went through an entire trial where she was the person telling me i was going to be okay that's interesting

And I had just completely forgotten that that lived in my head until I watched it. And I went, oh yeah, Rebecca kind of rides for Bonnie. Like Rebecca loves Bonnie. I like that. Right? And then also the shade of lipstick that Liza wears on this program is so classic and beautiful. And I bought it literally just because Liza is so beautiful. And it lives in my house still.

Hell yeah. I should get it too. Network TV doing its correct job selling cosmetics and things. I've been pulled into capitalism. yeah I thought this was uh also jumped out to me because I I was watching it and I was like well here's like I know we had just seen Asher but I was like oh I think this is going to be a lot of the Keating 4 in this house and so I went back and looked looked at the schedule and you only worked two days on this Matt right that's so wild that's crazy I think at that point I was

still a little bit like uh well I don't know I was probably a mix of like I'm tired it's by the end of you know by the end of the season yeah and whatever chronic uh hypermobile uh Ehlers-Danlos syndrome that I probably had at that point anyway but also I think you know there's I get kind of integrated more into the sort of heating stuff in the subsequent seasons and I think not knowing that though at that point I was still probably a little like that's kind of a bummer you know I imagine it's probably a double you know yeah especially for like the finale like you want to you want to be on screen for sure. For sure.

We then jump into a faux tech thumpy, thump, thump, thump montage where we are reviewing confession tape and, uh, looking for holes in Rebecca's story. And then you see Connor, Laurel and Michaela all sort of like presenting their,

their case in court. Um, and it speeds up and up and up and it gets crazy. And then boom, Wes, it's your turn. And he's got nothing. Like he,

he is like too dejected to like even participate poor wes i also think like i was watching i was like oh is it's the next morning now because like the light has changed and bonnie's like very doing some coffee acting like drinking sipping coffee totally real coffee by the way totally real coffee in case anyone wonders how that works yeah if you are wondering how that works you can they'll ask you like what what you want in the cup so like everyone you know could Like, I would always ask for, like, water or ice water, but... And if you really want to melt your wax wings close to the sun, you commit to doing empty cup acting,

which will, at some point, kick your ass, because you will forget. Yeah. Emily Sinclair then shows up. Hey. Hi, Emily Sinclair. Totally forgot she was in this season. Yeah, so did I.

I completely forgot that she was in this season. Yeah. She shows up. Emily sort of covers that she has house guests, And so they agreed to meet at Sinclair's office in an hour. Yeah. Sarah Burns, who plays ADA Sinclair, is great. She's also a very accomplished comedic actress.

If I'm remembering correctly, this might have been one of her first like dramatic sort of roles, which is like super cool. And she did great. You kind of see too, like her comedy chops come through in like her dry delivery as Sinclair. Right. Totally. Like, it's right in the pocket for our show, but it has, like, a little bit of, like, a comedic lift where I found myself smiling at, like, her, even her, like, threatening, you know.

Yeah. Very, like, bossy sort of line deliveries. She is wildly in control of her face, which is always brilliant to watch, yeah. So we get an orbital shot where we, like, spin around the globe. That takes us into ADA Sinclair's office. Annalise is giving an interview. Annalise says that Nate followed her home

after that night that they had sex. And she didn't mention it in her first interview because she wanted to protect Nate. And then she says there was an altercation between her and Sam that Nate saw and Nate comes up and sort of intervened in a physical way. Obviously, we know as the audience

that none of this happened. And so it leaves us sort of questioning why Annalise is telling this lie. Is it to protect Nate? Is it to further entrench him in, you know, the night to make him a suspect? We don't know. Is it just a toy with his emotions for fun?

Yeah, is it to do further harm to this man? I don't know. When AK's voice kind of breaks on, she said, so you're claiming, et cetera, and Viola goes, I'm not claiming anything. Yeah. And her voice snaps on it.

And I was like, man, I know that she is lying masterfully here, but this woman is very tired. Like, this as a character, like, ooh, beautiful. That takes us to a flashback of Lila on the roof, on the phone with Sam.

And she is once again sitting on the ledge of the building, which I know is not real, but still makes me super anxious because I don't think people do that. Do people do that? Because they shouldn't. People shouldn't be sitting on the ledges of building rooftops. Right into the pot.

Are you dangling your feet over six stories? Don't do that. The people who built the Empire State Building, there's that famous evidence of them sitting on a beam. But other than that, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. If you're in college and you're drinking and maybe using drugs, don't go on the top of your sorority house and dangle your feet over the edge. Doing key bumps on a roof. Don't do it.

Don't do that. Don't do it. Lila sort of suggests on the phone that she would rather not be here, rather die by suicide. That's a poor girl. Yeah, totally. Poor girl. That it would be easier for everyone and her and the baby would be gone. Sam says he's on his way and then Griffin busts onto the roof looking for Lila. And I thought he does a really good job

of like bringing the energy of, you know, it's kind of hard to like just run into a scene like that. And he really sells it, I think. It's a great performance by both of them on this roof, for sure. That takes us to Annalise's house. Connor and Rebecca are kind of having like a...

Can I... I 100% forgot that this scene existed this is such a like rare pair moment like i yeah i love connor and rebecca as like different fonts of edgy and self-assured but wildly like what did he think he was going to get out of this also like surely this is the only time the two of them have spoken privately right i don't like he just comes sit down and go hey man like yeah i think i texted you when i saw this i was like we talk yeah you both do really good here though i love that i feel like it was like i don't know you're both extremely natural here and i don't know it was i just wanted to see more

of that i wanted to see the i want to see more of that for sure the show yeah sure the spin-off bitching at each other on the cat that's right uh yeah all of her calls and rebecca sort of like is trying to fuck with connor a little bit and question whether or not he can really trust him and uh Rebecca brings up Wes's mom and sort of insinuates that maybe Wes killed his mom I was like what do not understand like I understand she's probably spiraling wildly away from reality here and is in like full bite the hand that feeds mode something about this entire episode is that there are many moments where I completely do not recognize myself as a human being this is the worst it has been through the entire season um I have no idea

where i'm working from like i look at myself and i see like a child that is not me at all so it's funny because it's kind of like i'm reading my choices from such an outside perspective and when she asks if if uh connor trusts oliver i was like oh she meant that i watched my eyes go and i was like oh she really wants to know because she's losing it and then i cycle back or like I cycled back around to did he kill his mom and I was like, guys. I mean, it makes sense. I get it.

Like she, Rebecca's like, her back's against the wall. She's just like throwing everything out there that might help her survive this situation. Especially knowing like what they're capable of, right? Sure, yeah. And seeing, I think, Rebecca's had this really interesting role in the show where she, for a lot of it,

has been sort of a fly on the wall and like observing how messy all of them are with one another so I think that it's very smart of her to be like oh maybe I can you know incept this this doubt into Connor's mind who's like not doing well and his anxiety will have him run away with it and it'll just create you know chaos and uncertainty and that could help me get out of this you know well and if you take her experience at face value knowing everything you know later like everything she's saying is true in terms of like she did watch her boyfriend kill a guy and then give her up immediately

so he's sort of like yeah she's a survivor I cannot trust anyone in this room to be rational yeah Asher then shows up to the office and Frank won't let Asher in and Asher thinks it's because of Bonnie

and his relationship and then I love that Asher then just barges in And we, you know, we get these like sped up tracking shots revealing that the house is now empty because the Keating Four obviously were in there with Rebecca and they've like now, you know, hidden themselves from Asher and it quickly tracks like through the entire empty house and then down the stairs and you see all of us and Wes is covering Rebecca's mouth and we're finally in the basement. We finally see the basement. Yeah, it's true. And it's not a wine cellar.

It's not. No, it's just a basement. Yeah. I'm wondering if it was actually referred to as a wine cellar at some point, or someone just said that they got the wine from the cellar, and maybe we elaborated it into a wine cellar. I'm not entirely sure. Oh, that they were referencing the basement as the cellar?

Yeah, maybe. Or they got it for the wine from the basement, and we imagined a wine cellar or something. I'm not sure. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. But this is interesting, too. there's a couple points in in this episode where we establish like the acoustics of the house

like they're able to from in the living room hear asher outside and forget there's not there's not one door but there's two two doors that separate the entrance i love how much you love this and for asher's voice ricochets around into the living room and then later at some point right like from the the living room to the basement you can hear very clearly too yeah i also i want to say that it did bump for me a little bit that asher made it past frank like i felt like you know frank would have put him in a rear choke hold or like grabbed him by his cross body bag and like suplexed him through the stained glass doors in the entryway or something you know i just yeah yeah yeah i have frank being very patient as the world's scariest guy question

also asher saying it's not just a hookup for me it feels pretty real angel sweet sweet baby oh god he's on a different show oh god no angel child it's a very different show it's true best guy it's so cute annalise and bonnie then return from sinclair's office and then we go out to the street where we have basher outside uh and asher again yeah cute just thinks bonnie is embarrassed of him and bonnie says that it's complicated and then you have this great like like annalise is a lesbian who's in love with you complicated but i actually yeah i really like the scene i think it's just beautiful work from you and and lots of for sure thank you i'm so here for this couple yeah i've always been like you're both so stressed and so soothed by

each other and ash was uh i feel like asher's eternal quest for lesbians is really um uh relatable to many of us same right exactly who doesn't want more lesbians true and it kind of plants a seed um later about something about annalise yeah yeah which is interesting yeah i honestly don't remember what happens to the relationship between asher and bonnie though but yeah i don't know something happens at some point because eventually we don't get married and yeah. Television. Eventually, something happens. Something happens. I think in the show

that Asher is in, this is like the best thing that's ever happened to him. True. 100%. I think it definitely is. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, we then go down into the basement and we get Eggs 911 Lawyer's House, which I

totally, I completely forgot about Eggs 911. So did I. I don't remember what it means. I don't remember what it means. I don't remember really any of it, but I remember it like trending on Twitter, I think. A friend of mine, I have now had the third person on my dodgeball team

take five years to realize that I was on the show. Nice. And he was like, oh my God, I loved this show. Like I'm so, it got me through some like really dark times. I watch it all the time. It makes me feel better. Like, I can't believe I didn't realize. And then, so now he texts me,

eggs 9-1-1 every once in a while which is i was like i wish i could tell you that i know what that's so funny we must find out in like subsequent seasons right i'm sure yeah no they just leave it forever right there's just some eggs on the on the front porch yeah yeah yeah you also have this great you have this great line katie uh you're gonna kill me sam style which is a crazy line to write but you you delivered the shit out of it thank you i sometimes i would end up with lines on this show where i was like okay i everyone else's is great in this scene and there is a chance that i will take this entire television show down by the neck if i deliver this badly oh no that's one though no never it sounds like an in and out menu option i'm gonna kill me sam style yeah right it

does it does triple triple sam style yeah it does sound like something rebecca would say though totally like i think that they nailed that i think it's just in watching it i was like man that that i could see that being a hard line to like especially with the the heightened emotion of of where you're at right now you know yeah it's not that it's not internally consistent it's just that they they trusted her they trusted her banter to me and i was like yeah yeah and i think that it's it's smart writing that like even in this moment there's like some level of devil may care sort of like comedy coming from rebecca because nothing she says is gonna matter right nothing she said she's already been in enough situations where nothing she says is gonna matter so

you know yeah i i still just can't believe i don't remember this set like i don't i don't remember being in the basement at all like zero percent i think we built it we built it for this didn't we yeah we must have because i used to there used to be a little door in the hallway that just led to a little nook and i know this because every time i had to exit through the hallway i would hide in there also there are boxes in that on that basement set that are uh case file props that have all of our real human government last names on them really really for what

just to be like to show what they have in the basement they have case files there are giant file boxes with like our actual human names on them on the exterior yeah wait that you can see on the

show yes what do you mean there's like an easter egg where you can look yep if you look at the if you look at the filing boxes um i remember this from firsthand experience so i can't speak to whether or not you can see it but like we're in the basement we are in the basement after this this episode as well so if you look um the two that i found were findlay and enoch because they were right on top of each other but so i don't know if it's everybody else but you felt you did

see them on screen too that i don't know okay okay but i have a picture of in a very open spot they weren't hiding so if anybody wants to go back and see if they can find uh scrub through and zoom in on a case file box. That's funny. I mean, that is like something that they would kind of do as like a fun little, you know, like Easter egg for sure.

All right, we go from there to the sorority roof. It's 1.15 in the morning. Sam's looking for Lila. Is the murder about to happen was what I was screaming. She's now sitting on top of the water tank. She insists that she's gonna have the baby.

I, and I don't know. I almost think that they should have leaned more into the faith language from Lila just because she brings up Griffin's faith quite a bit. But the whole premise of her having the baby, I think, is because of her faith. But it's not really brought up at all. Like she's talking about how her life is effectively over because Sam won't help her have the baby, but she has to have the baby. And I wonder if there was a reason for that, you know, if they were like trying not to make it like too overtly a faith conversation, which would be my guess. But I don't know. um is she presumably uh using quotes for virginity because obviously there's like very

specific uh assumptions about what that means and like you know heterosexual relationships and stuff like that but it's non-real thing right exactly um but is she supposedly but it also feels too largely she supposedly never had penetrative sex before with a man with a penis um okay okay yeah And that's, and that's, I see. And that's because of her religion too. I was maybe imagining there was something, because I remember in another episode, Rebecca's talking about like, you know, you're letting him, you know, kind of control you or whatever. I wasn't sure if it was more his faith. I don't know if it was leading to that or not. that's what I thought I thought I remembered a conversation where I said well she's not even religious that's Griffin's jam he's

got it ever since she became involved with him he's trying to control you he's trying to make you feel bad for having sex which she didn't feel bad until she was groomed right essentially I mean I guess she's an adult but still like I guess my point is that like

there's a lot of like Sam being like you're 20 like you know you don't want to throw your life away like you know i'm i'm paraphrasing or whatever but i don't feel like we really hear that much in this episode at least like why lila is deciding to have the baby was sort of my confusion in in this moment where i was like wait why is she having the baby either right because she wants a baby or she doesn't believe in abortion or you know yeah well i also think like i i couldn't stop thinking about how small she looks standing next him yeah like she's really just a kid like she's 21 it makes me fucking hate this guy so much i

mean i again like you know different growing up with different socialization but like she really stresses that she wants to be loved and she wants to belong to his life and just them having a connection is really not good enough the fact that he is still with a wife the fact that she doesn't fit being young not being the woman for him or the woman that he wants i could see that yeah connecting her to want you know she wants the steps that to her build a real life and a real family because i think when you're in crisis like that it often um your earliest ideas of what safety looks like kind of come rushing back to you and there's a world where you know she wanted to be a mom or she wanted whatever and and what is it what is a grown-up i mean i think that people

who especially like cis men who get involved with much younger women it's something that they take advantage of often which is really young women often do want to be seen as older and mature and graceful and all these things that they you know obviously they're already perfect the way they are but like anything that leads you towards legitimacy in the eyes of this person can sometimes be a a push which is why and i and again i say this as someone who loves tom verica to death oh god i hate this man yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean to your to your point he this scene ends with her with lila saying you said you love me over and over and over but you don't and then he says no i don't love her i love you you see him make the decision to kill her yeah i never noticed this

when she looks away he has a moment by himself and you watch in his eyes where he goes i can say anything i want yeah because my wife is never going to find out about this because this girl's going to be dead before the end of the night you watch him go yep okay yeah yeah it's crazy yeah so a lot of comings and goings from the sorority house by multiple different people like yeah i i mean i guess it's supposed to be the night where like it seems like the other like people are going out to parties so maybe it's like in saturday night no one's how many go there but i don't know if sam's ever been to that house before but it would you think would raise some flags having like a you know almost 50 year old man you know there and someone else too yeah this

was brought up on reddit quite a lot actually was that sort of the inconsistency that like that sam and later someone else both older men are able to somehow get into the sorority but Rebecca has to wait for the gate to open. Do I? Yeah, you wait. To get access into the sorority, you are waiting outside. Oh, that's right.

You wait for some girls to exit, and then that's how you get in, which for me, I'm like, Rebecca's like college age. I also go there all the time. Yeah, presumably you're there dealing. I'm there all the time. you have keys i think go to the gate yeah i am in the middle of like full bisexual panic with

my girlfriend who's not my girlfriend i go there all the time yeah so people on reddit have have brought that up oh yeah right and sam is faculty i forgot sam was also a faculty member too he's not just he's not just uh yeah yeah some random guy which is maybe would be harder for him to pass through unnoticed yeah yeah i forgot that he teaches at the school that's so much worse anyway we go from there we'll get back to the roof we go from there to the kitchen laurel is looking at sam's interview of rebecca she's just so fucking good in this scene like she's doing her whisper acting she's doing some coffee mug acting she's with frank you know she's just trying to find which she she is like maybe not can fully convince that rebecca like she's

trying to figure out if rebecca or sam is lying who's lying by watching this confession and Michaela then interrupts to let us know that her future mother-in-law is coming back, which like, not now, we don't care. We don't care, Michaela, but... Michaela won't stop talking about torts. Yeah, Michaela won't stop talking about torts. And then we immediately go into the restaurant

with Mrs. Walker, who's trying to get the ring back. But Michaela doesn't have the ring, so that seems like maybe a problem. She then goes off about why she won't give it back and is citing Pennsylvania law and all of that. and we realize that Mrs. Walker is actually not trying to get the ring back. She's trying to get Mikayla back for Aiden

and that she was unfair at their last meeting and she realizes Mikayla isn't that girl, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Asia goes into this big, I mean, it's so good. She goes into this big monologue about how she is that girl and she throughout the course of the monologue

sort of code switches back into like i guess what would be mckay was like natural more southern accent and ends with this you know he's gay mrs walker he's bi he's something it's it i i thought asia is just outstanding in this scene it's so good yeah really really good i also i love too that like when mckay was code switching to be like the the public you know version of mckayla pratt she's like got this like talky talk fast fast fast but in this scene when she goes back to what is probably her more like the the person she grew up as she's like slower and taking her time with the language and it's it's just such a good character decision yeah and i i also felt like it's just big character

growth for michaela as a character you know for like the end of the season that she's like now being like oh i'm capable of doing this without a man yeah it also feels like very prototypical shondaland like sort of monologue finishing with you know here's the thing i love me yeah so i'm yeah yeah yeah i love this scene i have written down uh the first thing i wrote down was asia naomi king world's most beautiful woman which is true forever but like i there's there's just like the ramp up in the ramp up to her code switch and i guess sort of her unmask there's this really beautiful stillness and disgust in her face because she i mean in essence she is watching this woman try to depersonalize her yeah like she needs her for something and when you watch that

like it's just so good when you watch that land on her face and then relax into like that that rolling tone and she moves with so much more weight and substance all of a sudden and i was i wrote down i was like i want hours of tv with that girl in it like i like watching the the class anxiety just evaporate off of her for a second yeah was oh so spicy and so good also i'd like to point out that i i don't think anyone uh involved in this program thinks it's not okay to marry a queer man just in defense of bisexual king aiden yeah totally but michaela doesn't have to yeah yeah no we we covered that that yeah maybe michaela yeah it's not for her but yeah is is i sorry at the end of it was that like the thing that makes michaela not want to be with him

not that because i think we still established that he is like in love with her as far as we know right but she just can't handle that also that he is queer i wonder if she's suspicious because i also do think like this this piece of the mom coming in hard and, like, so clearly trying to manipulate her into covering something. Right. You know? Well, I guess, did he end it with her?

I guess he kind of, did he end it with her because he was like, you know, because basically she wasn't trusting him at, like, that holiday party and she kind of, like, crashed out of it? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that this scene is more Michaela realizing that she doesn't need,

that maybe she was loving him for the wrong reasons or agreeing to marriage for the wrong reasons and that she doesn't need that safety net, for lack of a better term. She was playing on a different script and the script wasn't true to the person she's actually going to grow to be. And it wasn't necessary, yeah.

He's too smart for that. Great scene. Such a good scene. We go from there to Annalise seeing Wes zoned out and I just noted for myself that this must have been like exhausting for Elfie just because he's like so emotionally fraught for so many episodes

and knowing how much of a workhorse he is, like I bet that this like mentally took a toll on him and probably like emotionally and physically and all the things. We then, Annalise goes into the basement and Annalise is in like full manipulation mode trying to align herself with Rebecca to do right by Wes and tell her what happened.

and then Rebecca confesses to killing Lila, question mark, or maybe Sam did it. Who knows who did it, which I just thought was really good work, Katie. Thanks, buddy. This was one of those scenes, I remember this being one of those scenes where I was like, man, I get to go to work with Viola.

This is my everyday job and I get to do my everyday job with Viola Davis. Yeah, so good. She keeps me so well fed and lit up and like she's extremely funny um when she says we made him grow up yeah it kills me every time yeah and like i don't know sometimes i wonder about if annalise i feel like annalise might be the only grown-up who like looks at rebecca and gets it like a birds of a feather moment where she actually really does speak to her from up she's like listen man i see what you're doing

I have similar things in me. You got to get it together. Totally. Like, you have to get it together. Yeah, I think that's what's good about Annalise's manipulation of characters throughout the season and show is that there's always, like, a kernel of truth

to how she's manipulating them. And, like, she is speaking, I think, honestly from those places, but then it's typically for, you know, her own good and not ultimately the person across the table. she can't open all the doors and windows she doesn't have the privilege of the safety of opening all the doors and windows so she opens one window at a time and closes it

which i mean this would take forever that like a bunch of intersections of class and race and stuff but like we don't yeah have six hours yeah um that takes us upstairs we follow annalee's back up to wes and the others and she has this great get up i said stand are you man or not go get your girlfriend to talk and as wes is going down connor has the very macabre line sure he shouldn't take the trophy connor being a bitch yeah yeah the girlfriend thing you know or are you man or not you know that was that was that rubbed me aka using patriarchy to to get wes to do her bidding which right i mean probably you know effective in some way yeah you know definitely not for wouldn't work for Alfie

because he'd immediately be like You'd go, no, absolutely not. Yeah, what do you mean am I? What an interesting thing to bring to the table. Yeah, exactly. That's literally what our conversations were like on set. Everyone also, everyone doing the head tilt when we do.

Doing Alfie, yeah. Wes then goes downstairs to Rebecca. Katie, you have this great delivery of look at me, look at what you did to me. You said you loved me saying that Wes is the worst of all of the people and men that have have hurt Rebecca I thought that landed really beautifully and really intensely thanks man something I wanted to point out about the scene too is you have the line will you shut up about freaking Rudy which again you deliver the hell out of but it's it's it's worth noting because you can't say fucking on television

so we would always have to say freaking brutal yeah brutal bane of my existence it makes everything sound like hilarious teenagers fighting right yeah i screwing screwing and freaking right yeah yeah my mortal enemies yeah i am pretty sure that there is there are a bunch of takes of this scene uh where alph and i are just crying like really like weeping oh actually crying yes no well i mean we shot it forever because that's what we do there is probably a whole cuttable version of this scene where we're just crying the entire time because I think that that was our last scene together. And production was super gentle with us.

I mean, everything you see from me in this episode is me processing being off the show. Right. Yeah. So, like, production was super gentle with us, but there is a full alternate scene, which, like, doesn't fit the brief, obviously, where both of us are just weeping through the whole thing. Yeah, I can see why that wouldn't work here,

but it makes total, total sense. yeah yeah they are sometimes sensitive about that in scheduling like i mean without spoiler or spoilers ahead i guess for a second but like yeah my last scene of the series was saying big spoiler ahead fast forward 30 seconds but my last scene of the series was in the hallway saying goodbye to oliver as i'm like going to prison which like i remember just conrad and i or me i remember sobbing and like going outside of the of the stage and like crying on the street oh god um just because you know it hits you all at once so i can imagine for you that like yeah of course waterworks like you and you and elfie having as close of a relationship as you had

playing these characters oof that's intense rebecca says she did give rudy pcp jake mikesell playing Rudy he's really good I think just really really good Rebecca says she also gave him something else called Purple X which and then he turned into a Ninja Turtle yeah don't Purple X

I don't know guys yeah and then you know he has this poor Rudy he's such a stress ball and so he agrees to like you know try and hang out with the cool girl Rebecca his neighbor and do drugs and I'm just the whole time I'm watching I'm like

bad rock rebecca this is bad this is not nice at all this is very bad of you i'm trying to remember like what was the reason for her to realize that he had to be like eliminated is it because she saw her wet because i didn't walk in i spent so much of this episode drenched and just stomping around our sets leaving like soggy footprint yeah no it was because i hit the door and he knew her name and he i don't think it was strictly necessary i feel bad watching this back it feels the worst i'm like leave this man alone it would have been very clear when lila died and he'd seen on tv he would that would be pieced together okay yes totally it honestly it kind of made me feel bad like justified or something in some way where i was just like oh like this for

me is the nail in the coffin for rebecca in in the theme of the show that they're all bad people you know i was like this is like a objectively very very horrible thing to do just a terrible thing to do terrible yeah absolutely terrible there were um a bunch of close-ups of me rolling joints and and putting uh nefarious crystals in them and i i realized watching it i had never actually rolled a joint in my life at that point or done any recreational drugs whatsoever uh so i was always worried that someone's gonna look at it and be like that person doesn't know what they're it's hard to roll a joint i think yeah it is hard yeah yeah we then we see sort of the you know the fallout of him taking the purple axe and we see oh god we see his nails coming off on the walls

it's just so gross it's awful i couldn't watch it that sound also for some reason like i don't i don't have a thing with nails on chalkboard but that feels like in line with like even talking about it i scream and like scrape the bottom of the thing with like the plastic the on the paper or rubbing a paper napkin against itself like makes me want to fucking wow like pull myself go we just lost all of our listeners everyone just like what about these other sounds that yeah that's right no i just this i experienced deep regret on on behalf of my avatar this was horrible to watch yeah also his nails are really strong that's a plaster how did he do that it's also yeah i just say it's it's it's it's also i mean it's so terrible because rebecca didn't

actually even do this do anything that needed covering up but they were so sure that they would not be believed and probably rightfully so that they they ended up doing something that was horrific to someone who is totally innocent yeah which is which is also a theme like that's what happens with the keating four as well in protecting right people over correcting into Yeah, people overcorrecting. They don't get back from. Yeah, panicking. Right.

I wrote, I don't know, losing your WLW situation ship spins you out, man, but that's also nice. Sure. We quickly see Rebecca in the tank with Dad Lila, which we'll talk more about the water tank at the end. And then we go back to Wes coming upstairs, having learned all of this.

And he is back on Team Rebecca, saying he believes her and the other, the Keating three, Connor, McKayla, and Laurel are not buying it. Annalise says that we are done trying the case.

That's it. Which I was like, okay. We just believe Rebecca now? All right. Great, cool. Yeah, yeah. Case closed.

And then Nate calls Annalise which takes us to Nate and Annalise meeting on a street somewhere. I already forgot why he's beat up. the prison uh and we paid for him to get his ass kicked in prison that's right i seeing billy brown hurt like that makes my stomach ache and also that like the most implausible thing in this

episode is that any number of people on planet earth under any circumstance could beat up billy brown it's this also triggered a memory for me that was like i probably thought was you know gone forever. But for a long time, Billy was just Billy in my phone. Probably until this event, actually, where he was the only Billy I knew. And I was like, well, it's Billy Brown, like Billy. And I remember the episode where he gets beat up in prison. I texted Billy. And I was like, dude, that like, we had just read it or something. I was like, dude, what a crazy scene. Like, I can't believe you get jumped in prison, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I realized I had text a different person in my phone named Billy, that I actually did have two Billys in my

phone. And at the time, like we, you know, we were still- He's a reporter for Variety or something. Exactly. We were still like young on the show, like, you know, and I was so anxious about leaking any plot points because it had been drilled into us that I like panicked. And I, you know, I was like, who is this guy that I just texted? And I realized that it was someone I'd met at a barbecue eggs 911 and that he was an actor and that he was signed with uh a manager that i vaguely knew so i panicked called that manager and i was like i just texted your client like and this guy was like dude you gotta relax like it's he's not gonna he's not gonna sell this plot point to tmz right it's also not a major plot no no it's not but i was just so anxious

so that's that's a that's a little uh you're right jack they did like oh yeah it was very important not to tell anybody anything people would ask me questions and interviews that they knew i couldn't answer yeah every single time like on purpose and then watch my face and i know yeah well in someone i'm sure we had talked about this but someone had leaked the the mid-season finale on reddit right really oh yeah i didn't know that that's crazy yeah and this would have been the most security i mean we've talked to us before but we for for the finale we were like we were as as we got new updated versions of the script we had to hand back the old versions yes to get shredded like we couldn't even kind of and looking back at this at the schedule for this

episode they were at the top of the schedule and on the one liner and day out of days there was like a whole paint one sheet about uh security yeah around the scripts yeah by the way this was probably the only time that billy brown set foot in the makeup trailer um was to do this makeup of getting beaten up yeah because as we said before he never never did hair never did hair makeup yeah incredible he just he showed up correct every single day that's right anyway he's beat up nate understands why annalise lied about the physical confrontation with sam because it explains why his prince would be on Sam's ring. Annalise tells him to trust her.

At this point, I have no comment. I don't know why. I don't know why he would. Poor man. And then we go back to the house where Michaela says, let's pin Sam's murder on Rebecca. Sam killed Lila,

so it makes sense that Rebecca would kill Sam out of revenge. We all testify. Yay! Annalise does not think it's a good idea. and that we have to let her go. Everyone's so excited about fraud. Yeah.

So excited about fraud. Immediately. Yeah, they've lost their minds at this point. And, you know, and it kind of, I think, is great. Like, it shows how corrupted that they have become throughout the course of a couple months. And my, you know, my hot take,

which I, the hell I die on, is like, I think it's Annalise's fault. Like, I think Annalise is a bad person and made all these people bad people. which people obviously don't agree with that take. But it's mine. I mean, I do kind of agree with you. I think that we were saying the meta question of the season.

I think at the beginning, she sort of threw down and said, oh, you thought you could do this work with me and stay people with a pedestrian sense of goodness? Well, you can't. Right. You can't. I don't care what you showed up with. Kill all of your darlings.

That's stupid. The real world doesn't work that way. And so then you all went out and tried to do that and ended up in your own like completely irreparable personal tangles that changed you. And then you've all just now come back and she's seeing what that looks like, you know? Yeah.

But like, yeah, I agree with you. Laurel also then essentially asked Frank to kill Rebecca and says, there must be something else you can do looking at Frank, which is wild. Yeah, wild. Yeah, yeah. Laurel being ready to kill someone immediately is so, I love Laurel's character.

I love Carla it's so brilliant it's also wild because we haven't established that yet like Laurel's I think maybe I guess because she's like romantically intertwined with Frank is starting to like

piece things together maybe before everyone else but it is a pretty audacious line to throw out in front of Rebecca and the whole crew and everything yeah we got to the point where he said everybody out who in the basement frank frank said okay everybody out especially you and then west leaves everybody leaves the basement has that already happened i just remember it was before

and it was before an act break and then everybody leaves and then i was like what happened to me you're just there you're tied up what did he do he was like everybody out and he stayed downstairs with me and i thought i was like oh he's gonna kill me and then i went back up he went back upstairs and nothing happened right well yeah yeah so he he makes us all go back upstairs yeah and we don't know which is the intention sure i was trying to remember the next time you see me sorry i'm wasting podcast time i was trying to remember when the next time you see me is because i was like what what what happened the tracking of who is upstairs and who is downstairs i think is intentionally messy throughout the episode which is how we see the the cliffhanger at the

end of the episode yeah annalise basically says she's gonna go ask rebecca nicely to not you know go straight to the police which everyone hates and i think i'll i'll go back on what i just said a little bit where i've been like team i've been like team keating four and that annalise is the bad guy but i think in watching this episode it's the first time where i've kind of agreed with reddit where i'm like oh the keating four like really blew this part like they really escalated in kidnapping Rebecca, like in tying her up. And like there was no reason to do it

other than just like extreme paranoia. And it does put them, I think, into like the worst position that they've arguably been in the entire season. And you see like Annalise, Frank, and Bonnie chastising them rightfully so throughout this entire episode. In playing it, it's like you always have to defend

obviously your character, which has polluted my mind into thinking Annalise is the bad guy. But as an audience member now, 10 years later, I was just like, the Keating Four, they kind of blew this part. Like, this is not, this is messy. It's big like mom's home energy.

Yes. When she comes to the beginning, especially. It's like she caught them going highway speeds in a neighborhood and she was like, what are you doing? 100%. We then go down into the basement and Rebecca's gone.

Rebecca has escaped and we we run into the backyard uh and annalise is yelling like you know where is she who did it who did it uh we see like the tape like cut like you know her bindings cut like it looks like rebecca has escaped through the backyard which news to me that there's a backyard and leases but yeah i i also have no idea where we would have shot this like is it as it's a location i think right i don't know location i think it has to be we don't yeah i don't know where else practical house right exactly so we must have shot this on location and we're all in the there was the house yeah the house that we have the exteriors of and and stuff um did you i don't know if you ever

actually shot there did you shoot there maybe maybe not no i think i think this house was always was always studio for me oh okay yeah yeah yeah so there was an outside of a house i wonder if there was an actual backyard there. Maybe. I don't know. It's a good question, but we are in someone's actual backyard, it seems,

looking for Rebecca. And then we go to Wes looking really sad on the staircase. In between that, there's a shot of Alfie that emotionally damages me where we zoom-y-zoom

back down into the basement and he's just standing there staring at the chair. He's standing at the empty chair. Irreparable emotional damage. Yes. You're right. And then from there,

wes looking very sad on the staircase and saying you know rebecca sam nate it's all my fault and it sort of is wes wes cries and always comforts him he she puts him in her lap um to comfort him it's really really beautiful work by by elfie yeah yeah um that takes us to sam professing his love for lila on the roof and then kisses her a lot of hands on her face and on her neck area I think meant to kind of, you know, lead us to think that he's about to kill her. Literally, I was like, oh, this is when he strangles her. His eyes are open during the kiss, he's evil.

I know, that part too. Yeah, it's really awful. That scene was the episode of title... Yeah, did we? Is that where it is? Is that where... Oh, yeah, it's all my fault. Yeah, so in that scene... Or it's Wes?

Yeah, in that scene where he's saying it's all my fault, that is where we get the titular line. which neither of us got cool so we're gonna be beat to death by tony that's true he's gonna take uh all the tony's that uh death of salesman wins and puts him in a large sack and just repeatedly beat us with them within an inch of our lives oh god it's gonna be a sack of tony's it's gonna be hopefully knock on wood yeah that's that's gonna be uh i guess by the time this comes out we will know we will know yeah so it'll be there'll be an empty deflated sack and we'll probably have a lot longer on our lifespan or death is open does really well and um

we're fucked so oh boy heavy heavy sacatoni is my favorite 1930s gangster in chicago i love that anyway we go we go to the yeah sam's kissing her it's awful and then that's intercut with uh annalise and wes where annalise is reassuring wes that sam killed lila he did sam killed her We don't know that. No, but it's what we need to choose to believe. And then we go back to or then we go to Nate calling the number Annalise has given him. Finally, like five episodes later, he's calling that number. Then we go back to Annalise and Wes again. Then we go back to Rebecca outside the sorority. And we get these two girls leaving to get you through the sorority door. And I just think this must have been like, I'm sure it was like written into the episode, but it feels very Bill D'Elia that the girls are talking about like a sexual encounter.

And one of the girls say what penis is ever pretty, which I just think is so funny that our show decided to inject some comedy in this like psycho 10 minutes of television. Also, we can't say fuck, but we say penis a lot on this show. Yeah, we do say penis a lot.

Hell yeah, we do. Sometimes like 10 times. So many times. You gotta work with what you got. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's so dark, and I think it's so perfect that we push that comedy right into the episode. But Rebecca then gets into the sorority, which again, I'm like, why can't a young person get into a sorority? But you do, you get in. And then we're back in present day, and Sinclair shows up at Asher's place.

This would have been your second day of work on the episode. And Asher agrees to talk to her, which I'm just like, yet again, And if you lawyered up, we wouldn't get into these situations. That takes us back to Annalise and Wes. And Annalise is telling him, if you say it, it'll become true.

Sam killed Lila. Sam killed Lila. And that's Rebecca on the roof looking for Lila. I think there's some really cool editing here with all of like the overlapping lines. Such a good cut. Rebecca looking for Lila then takes us to Michaela getting drunk at a bar

and Laurel showing up. And this scene, I fell out of my chair. I can't believe I didn't remember this. But Mikayla's just like, whatever, we're going to get arrested. Like, world's on fire. I want to get drunk and have sex with one of these bankers. And Laurel brings out Mikayla's ring. Yeah, that was such a surprise.

I completely forgot. Me too. Obsessed with this dynamic. Oh, my God. Yeah. And it makes us realize that Laurel is much more savvy than we realized. Oh, she's so sharp.

She's so sharp. The whole season she is. It's brilliant. Yeah. I think Laurel's like maybe the most in control out of anyone other than Annalise. Like, she's playing four-dimensional chess.

And she basically says, I found it in Connor's car as soon as you told us that you lost it. And she, yeah, she held it as insurance and knew that Michaela couldn't go to the police if her ring was missing. And it, ah, God, I love this. It made me love Laurel so much.

It's so good. It's so badass. Also drunk Michaela for president. Yeah, drunk Michaela's, love drunk Michaela. Peak. That takes us back to Rebecca on the roof where she hears, she's about to like leave and then she hears a cell phone buzzing

and looks on the ground and sees Lila's phone, which makes her look up to the tank. that then takes us to uh Colliver I just gotta say sorry I just gotta say kudos to like I thought I was like how are they gonna get Rebecca up to the

water tank like to look inside and get inside I was like kudos to the writers for like I don't know how you figure that shit out where you they like map that out but I was just like I thought I thought that there's just gonna be some whole giant hole in the plot and there wasn't it makes perfect sense yeah

they nailed it yeah yeah that then takes us to Oliver's apartment Oliver is crying in bed uh and we find out that Oliver actually lied and he tested positive for HIV um which is

a devastating scene between the two of them really really beautiful work from Conrad yeah really good just intense crushed me crushed me the first time crushed me again now yep totally yeah that takes us back to Rebecca who's now climbing the tank

and she sees some of Lila's hairs sort of around the lid and she opens it and finds her dead body and we see the 2.12 a.m. Chiron and you have this like intense scream here, I think. No, that comes later, maybe. I don't think I have a scream. I try to, I remember trying to gather her up

and get her out. which was so unbelievably sad to me at the time that like it, especially after a full season of having to hold in my brain that there's a chance that like the character I was building, I would just have to kind of give away if it turned out that, you know,

because I didn't know. I didn't know if I did it for ages. Right. So I just had to hold a bunch of possibilities in my mind at once and then being able to finally put it down was cathartic but yeah I remember I had I was I had to try

to drag her I was trying to gather her up and drag her out of the tank which was fucking heartbreaking I still remember the feeling of it in my body because it was so sad I also love Megan West so I was like oh god yeah and that was actually her there it was not like a yeah like a yeah she was there I'm trying to remember if she was there for that moment

okay where was the water tank stage it was yeah yeah roof stage like it was practical on it was practical it was that big I am treading the shot where you see me oh we haven't gotten there yet okay i'll tell you i'll tell you in a minute this is fascinating but we see that we see 2 12 a.m and then we reverse time we go back an hour uh it's i thought really cool for the season finale that we've never really used

this effect before um the music changes like we were in sort of like an end of episode sort of like ballad and then it changes into this like more dark scary faux techy stuff we zoom backwards an hour we're back with sam and lila on the roof sam's kissing her again and then he we think it's matt as you were saying like hands kind of around the neck area and we think oh my god he's about to kill her, but he doesn't. He leaves. And then we see him at a payphone calling someone. I need you to do what we talked about. You owe me. And then boom, we're back on the roof. Lila's tackled from behind. Payphones. And we see this shot of her being strangled by a pair of black gloves, which started this episode. And then we slowly turn around and see that it's Frank. Damn. Who is

killing Lila so disturbing such a disturbing job it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't you know when you read the script it was mostly surprise you know and then you kind of I don't know when you're acting on it you're so close to it that you don't quite see it the same way but seeing it now with the distance you know it's disturbing especially the look on his face just the you know the very it's very well played by Charlie very measured and precise and like clinical almost you know yeah professional if you will yeah yeah yeah it's terrifying he's terrifying yeah it's true yeah it's terrifying it's so upsetting great job charlie if you're listening i know you're fitting way to go yeah and then the show again the writers being smart they're kind of answering

the question that like me as a first-time audience member has been asking of like what is frank's job where we get these quick inserts of all over all of the episodes of frank what is frank's job and like you know leaving these sort of breadcrumbs of like maybe he's a utility man maybe he is a hit man and you know we finally we finally know what his job is he's a plumber yeah he's a plumber and then we go back to annalise and wes and they're chanting sam killed lila together which was kind of a little dark terrifying but alfie's eyes look beautiful in this shot can i just say sure sure and then frank he's dropping the body into the tank you know he's he's pulling it up he drops the phone which like as a professional hitman really

blew that like well even even more than that now that i think about it right when he comes back down the ladder you would look around just to make sure you didn't like i do that getting out of an uber you know i definitely if i was if i was a hitman i definitely be like did i leave anything maybe turn on my phone flashlight for a moment you know you take a look right but it's phone case you know he's like looks good to me yeah exactly i think the whole i think the meatball sub place is still open yeah i gotta get out of here yeah oh that's so funny damn yeah i just wrote down i was like man frank blew it yeah a little bit yeah but he drops the phone into the tank still in her cut with annalise and wes channing and being weird wes then goes to leave

the house and Annalise is walking into the basement and this for me as a first time audience member but someone who shot and made the show was the first time I was like oh no I realize what's I I know what's coming and Annalise finds Frank in the basement and they have this like was this you no I thought this was you that's sort of like back and forth but it's like very like clinical and yeah maybe not their first time and then the now what and we pan to see a dead rebecca no i started crying did you really i did oh my sweet angel that's so sad and i forgot we also don't figure out who did it this season no we don't yeah it's true i know i know this is horrible and was like ground zero for Nightmares and Grief

for me for many years. AK saying, because I'm that guy is objectively hilarious and brilliantly deliberate. Frank goes, you think I'm that guy? And she goes, you think I'm that guy? Right, right. Really got me. But that is kind of interesting.

Like, do we think that it's like meant to imply that Annalise doesn't think that Frank's that guy? I don't know. No, I mean, it might be that he went rogue and did it without instruction or without checking. Right. Like that guy who's going to be a loose cannon like that. Yeah, he's an adult who kills people.

He's not a student who kills people. Like he surely would have. Did you kill this person without checking with me? Possibly. Right. But do you think that the show is saying that Annalise knows that Frank commits murder? What Frank's job is?

I don't know. That's actually a really good question. I feel like she's too smart, not too... She's pretty smart. But we also definitely had that moment, you know, with about Sam's sister where he says, you want me to take care of it? Yeah, you're right.

That's part of the poppy pop, you know? Yeah, yeah, you're right. She knows he's a hitman. She's got to know. Yeah, also, like, if that guy walked in somewhere, I'd go, oh, that's a hitman. Anyway, he uses the word whack 11 times in this episode. It's true, yeah.

Everyone just goes, okay. do we see you in the tank yeah katie we do yeah yeah no i um i goofed i uh when there's a little pop with some sorority girls coming up to is it or is it griffin i am bad at remembering the show there is a shot of me in the tank hiding because someone has come up to the roof i can't remember who it is because it's so intercut but i'm up to like here in water and real real life megan west actual galactica actual is um uh face up beside me yeah floating next um and that was a a practical full-size water tank so i was just in my entire i was in a wetsuit and my entire costume and i believe my shoes really um were you standing maybe i so i'm trying to remember how deep it

was because i remember being able to tread water which was great because it made me feel like i was in the abyss or something it was fantastic yeah wow but surely you could stand like they didn't have you yeah i could stand but it was like a real yeah it was it was like there's a shot of me standing up on top of it yeah from the night but no no it was more than four feet of water oh whoa okay i think yeah no it was it was big it had to be big enough for megan to float right fair enough but so it was a little ledge for you to stand on maybe and then you could step off of it and trip i don't know maybe i don't i think i think it was at least my height like i'm five, nine. So I think it was at least like up to here, but we had like people in there with us

and like a full rig. And it felt like all of a sudden we were filming free Willy. It was very cool. Wow. It was one of those. There was a camera team in wetsuits in the tank. I don't know if they were in wet. I mean, yeah, that's how they got that shot. The shot of us, like they're in there with us. I would have assumed that it was like a crane or something that they put into the tank. Wow. No, no, no. I'm trying to remember who it was. It might've been Scott, but it was, yeah, no, no. There was totally people in there. It was one of those. I work on TV and that's cool moments yeah totally where you're like in a tank put the thing over the top and i was like yeah no it was great it was very very spooky and i did i did i would say it was the second most uh

katie gets ferried around set covered in different things uh that i was that season uh aside from when the blood sam tried to strangle me yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you did a lot of like kind of wet acting i did this season of television yeah easier on my hair i'm classically always freezing anyway so it's fine damn also i just want to say when you when you also having like the the political lens on it makes it also so fucked up right that like the two women are killed and like blamed for shit you know because of the shit that the men did you know it's like it feels very like witch hunt style sort of shit like femicide two young two young women yeah right like who did really i mean other than yeah like there were not the original sources of the problems or anything

you know what i mean like yeah yeah yeah fucked up well and i also i think i had re-watching and thinking about it i think i had a big like white queer reckoning moment because i think when when uh it was airing i think i just needed like uh an intersectional lens adjustment because there's so much to this show when you look at it with like racial and class perspectives obviously uh but people were so activated by rebecca as a character right especially when it came to west right and they would be like she is lying she is insane what like this poor man he's so and at the time i kind of remember being like well it's interesting to me that like people can't recognize like a traumatized person like that people can't recognize disordered attachment and like that uh

uh you know class causes harm yeah that then means that it creates people who can't assimilate totally and i just completely discounted like the white woman tears and watching it with that lens i went oh yeah i can completely understand why and especially Annalise would go listen I understand that you come from somewhere but you're armed with something you don't understand and you can do serious harm to this guy like you can't come in here and start wing wanging around but then I also found that interesting overlapping with Annalise who talks about coming from a difficult place and like I recognize you I know you so that that lack of being able to assimilate and who it leaves behind like who a lack of being able to assimilate leaves

behind totally and then yeah and then people just kind of dropping out as they can't whoever sinks and whoever swims is really interesting to me yeah individually as artists all of you are so smart and i watch i watch people um one consistent thing about my life on television is that i love my friends so anytime i get to go back and and watch your work or your you know it's it's so fun to watch you think and to watch you feel and i feel like everyone on this show had such a beautiful grasp on all of the pieces that were at play and all of the privileges and wounds and things and Harish and all these people.

And that's not easy to do in like a really buzzy, fast, sexy, harsh show, like primetime television kind of show. And I think that's the thing I noticed the most about this episode is that everyone is really driving their car. I just think it's brilliant. I think everybody's so good. Yeah. Yeah.

and then and then you do come back for season two I do to see right because I forgot that we don't see the murder

in this in this episode we do not uh that was the single most harrowing experience of my on set life oh my god

alright I think we are gonna take a pause there having recapped the final episode of season one we couldn't have done

this episode without you Katie or we couldn't have done this season of television without you I mean it's true thank you so much for having me thank you for having me back when i desperately pleaded so let me come and hang out because i

miss you guys i love that we will continue the conversation with katie um and get into everything that comes with ending a season of television when you have made these people your family for an entire calendar year and done so publicly and what that feels like um okay Thank you for listening. All right. Bye, guys. Love you. That's it for today's show.

Thanks for joining us and see you next week for a new episode. They drop every Thursday and don't be late because the professor doesn't like to wait. How We Got Away With Murder is an original production by Podcast Nation. Produced by James Brown and Alicia Panier. Audio production by Miles Carter. Original music by Elefante.