How We Got Away with Murder - Alfred Enoch: Part 1

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

The one, the only, Alfred Enoch joins Matt and Jack on the pod this week to revisit the early days of How to Get Away with Murder, including stepping into the role of Wes Gibbins and the pressure of anchoring a character at the center of so much mystery. From audition stories to the whirlwind of the show’s breakout success, Alfred shares what it felt like navigating Wes’s moral compass in a world built on secrets. This is part one of a two-part episode.We want to hear from you! Send us your show and episode questions with the chance to be read on the air during an episode: [e-mail] Matt & Jack:IG @jackfalaheeTIKTOK @jackfalahee X @RestingPlatypus REDDIT u/ItsMeJackFalaheeIG @mattmcgorry TIKTOK @matt.mcgorry X @MattMcGorry Facebook: @ActorMattMcGorrySponsors:Hero Bread: This year, hit your goals without giving up your favorite bready dishes. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code JACKANDMATT at checkout.Ollie: Show your dog some love in the way they understand best. Head to Ollie.com/jackandmatt, tell them all about your dog, and use code JACKANDMATT to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! Plus, they offer a Happiness Guarantee on the first box, so if you’re not completely satisfied, you’ll get your money back.This podcast is brought to you by Podcast Nation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

hey everyone my name is matt mccorry and i played the character asher millstone on how to get away with murder and i'm jack fallahy and i played connor walsh on that very same tv show and this is the how we got away with murder podcast wow hey bud hey we got a good one today oh boy do we We reeled in a big old fish. A big old fish from across the pond. That's right. Yeah. We cast our line far across the pond and we got a big one.

That's right. Cupid's net and Poseidon's bow really come together. That's exactly the truth of it. Yeah. We nailed it right on the nose. That's right. Today we're talking to Alfred Enoch. alfred first of his name i believe yes of london united kingdom of the of london town i'm so excited

for this episode i miss alfie i've visited him a few times i think you have as well i would never visit him sure but didn't you see him when you were there yeah i visited yeah yeah it's nice it's always it's always a real treat and a delight to to get to catch up with alfred yeah i'm really looking forward to this conversation and so i'm glad that he agreed to this and without further ado let's talk to mr alfred enoch hey alfred i'm straight in i'm straight in straight in we're going straight in you've been airdropped i thought i thought you guys were gonna yeah yeah yeah i thought i was gonna be revealed i was gonna come out from behind curtains you're actually hosting this

episode today no he's he's here forget it forget our preamble oh we have today we are very excited to have on the podcast alfred enoch that's the first of his name joining us all the way from sunny london that's right whoop whoop whoop whoop hey alf how you doing representing yeah good thank you very much i'm flattered that you guys decided to set up a podcast just to spend more time with me that's really that means a lot absolutely yeah our main motive was just how can we talk to alfred yeah that's right um surprisingly to me you have been one of the most requested guests for the podcast really i love how you're actually surprised to for the listeners i'm joking of these being genuine no you everyone everyone's very excited to hear from you

we have like a whole uh list of questions from i've been on the how to get with murder subreddit wow and they're very they're very excited about you joining us on today's pod what a world the sub reddit that is see you can send me an explainer of what that means later yeah sure sure sure but it is true you're quite you're quite elusive you know yeah public uh social media presence too the people are hungry for the crumbs you know and today we want to serve them a full slice of the pie wow reconstitute the crumbs because i'm afraid that's all that's all i tend to bring we can do that i'll let you mash them together the baking delightful yes indeed such a pleasure to have you on alfred um i you guys could call me alfie you guys have been very uh or have you

guys made a kind of a decision no it's funny i realize when i'm saying and i'm actually being ironic which i realize is not clear at all um because i only ever call you alfie um that is interesting though because it doesn't sound like it sounds like my presentation right now feels very dry it's also early in the morning relative to on the east coast versus london so i think i'm yeah it is alfie though yes to me yeah or alf yeah yeah well yeah you guys call me what you like i thought i mean i felt your iron i just i just thought you decided to do it the only way the only way you could square the circle with by being ironic about which would be entirely legitimate you did you did catch the irony i did catch the irony oh you did coming through

even at this time oh look at that the subtleties of my uh the subtle flavors of my acting are uh sure exists still got it baby still got it that's right so we bring in people in a lot of times we're kind of asking about sort of the origins um not of you as a human being but with the show um we talked about our own sort of casting processes and what that was like i know that uh memory sometimes has a challenge but i'm curious i know alfie's curious that people would like to know um yeah just what what was the casting process like for you with how to get away from from what you remember yeah yeah it it was it was bizarre or at least it seemed bizarre yeah to be honest just about everything about the experience seemed

bizarre to me because i yeah as you guys both know i was like all of a sudden i wasn't in kansas anymore or in this case london um and it was just a totally different world everything about the way it's just the show operated i've never worked in the states so um so in terms of the casting that's right i had had an audition in london i did a tape for a network pilot and i went in and i filmed it and i never heard anything ever again and that was the first american show american show i'd ever taped and this would have been maybe late 2013 and then you know another one came through and i thought well this is just like that other one i'm gonna go in i'm gonna do it in my bad american accent and then i'm gonna move on with my life never hear anything from it so i went in did the

tape that second one was how to get away with murder and what happened then then i was i was auditioning for something else i was sort of waiting for news and my agent called me and told me that they want to see me again for how to get away with murder which i i'm not sure even i had sort of really retained just because i thought there was no i had i mean i couldn't tell you i had nothing like expectation and certainly at that point in my career i was i had expectations around everything so that's that's how remote it seemed to be interesting wow really everything was like why i think yeah i was just quite unemployed before then you know i was yeah i was just like so i was like anything i was like hopefully this job this maybe it will just happen

maybe it will just come and that thing you know before you get a bit more hard-nosed and cynical uh where you think it could it could it could but with this i was just like in what world are they gonna cast an english actor based in london sure who's never done an american accent for anything right and who doesn't do it that well was how i felt about it and i think probably accurately uh when i was doing the audition you guys can probably get hold i hope you oh we're gonna we're gonna get that tape and i'm gonna oh my god that would be bracing that would be that would be something i'll make sure i never go the internet again yeah exactly um so yes i just truly it just seemed like obviously they're

gonna cast an american to play an american in an american show they're shooting in america like this is so absurd oh you know they love casting brits in american roles yeah i mean that's true but it didn't feel like that much of a thing i think kind of something to remember in the context of that is that also like i was gonna say we're old i didn't want to bring you guys down but we're old um and it's like 2014 2013 that it there weren't tapes in the same way yeah do you know what i mean we weren't like i didn't i'd never right maybe even ever taped for anything other than that and for the audience those are self-tapes that you're kind of doing mostly on your own which is how basically it always is now almost exclusively yeah so back

then that was a you know that was kind of unique so i suppose i think there were english actors who'd gone and you know made it you know idris elba was kind of most because that was around the time that the wire was you know being still being made and coming out later seasons or something like that damn was it well or was it was it or had that my sense of time is not is no well mine mine too but i think it definitely he was there damian lewis it sort of felt like basically indris albert david lewis and david harewood were you know worked in the states of that sort of kind of and obviously like you know alan rickman people yeah you know but like it sort of felt that was a kind of high hollywood thing do you know i mean like it wasn't like it

didn't it just didn't seem plausible and i think that thing of brits getting cast in american shows playing americans was only just starting to become a thing yeah you're right i want to become much more it was like the beginning of of the global nature of hollywood yeah yeah yeah completely that and i remember that because i had friends actors in the uk who would talk about going to la and won it and it was very much like you had to go yeah right to be physically yes you had to be there physically i'm gonna go out and do pilots do this and do that so i that had never kind of really been i just hadn't got to thinking about that as a thing never appealed for one reason or another i was just you know trucking along like that's not for me no thank you go to america

to maybe get a job pass the spotlight here i come no thank you you're exposing all my the confused working of my you know stubborn mind no i mean it is it is a crazy proposition you know to to get on a plane fly across the world to maybe get auditions to maybe get a job like that that is it's ludicrous really right so i understand completely if there was resistance to that so this seems like a perfect opportunity where you get a date they want to see you again and you're like huh how about that but i think even then if that wasn't you know that just wasn't my takeaway yeah so i think so that was it so i

was like oh you know there was a genuinely a slightly confused conversation with my agent where i thought they were talking about this other job and i was like really i was like okay um wow i just thought that was going to disappear they were like no they want to test you and i was like on what genuinely and now a word from our sponsors and we are back genuinely to that level so i i have no idea what a test was your maths yeah exactly i thought i definitely have time to revise them that's right i'm pluralizing also the maths is a is a british thing right that was good thank you thank you i'm impressed thank you wow i actually didn't you can tell i haven't been in the states because i would appreciate that back in the day true i just want to make you feel more

comfortable yeah keep making those concessions yes of course you know i will yes um so on my math or mass it didn't it didn't come it didn't come into the equation um god you guys are lucky i'm not i don't host a podcast jesus that's dreadful um so anyway so they wanted to test me so they wanted to do what i believe if i remember right it's called the network test yeah i guess have you guys talked about this before yeah listeners know what that is yeah the people find the final audition before before you get the gig yeah when the big was this in person for you bosses in person okay i mean i i think they probably that's how it had always been done so ironically as a sort of total technophobe i sort of accidentally ended up with the kind of

cutting edge and i had a skype test and a remote test the reason for this was that i was doing a play at the time oh i was gonna i was gonna ask do you remember did they did they offer to fly you to la or was it never a conversation because you were doing a play and unavailable i think i was i mean i was unavailable yeah yeah it couldn't have happened because we were doing we had sunday was our day off do you know i mean that was what were you doing two shows and so coriolanus with tom hiddleston actually it was kind of uh wow i was gonna say a brit who had gone and done hollywood but i suppose i suppose he had as loki but but again even that's thinking about it now feels like a different thing right i mean yeah he plays that character in british accent it's

directed by kenneth branner do you know what i mean it's sort of in a kind of old worldy so in the english-speaking world often english accent yeah kind of context so anyway so i was doing this play and they wanted to test me so i was like okay well what's that now you just have to go in and audition again and i was like okay it's gonna be on skype with the actual director and the writer pete and michael offer and pete and so i was like okay so when is the casting director's office and um this was the setup they had a little like those old video camcorders and they had the laptop oh yeah alongside yeah so michael and pete could watch the audition and give me notes and later they would upload the footage and send it off for all the network exec

god that's so funny so it was it you know so i turn up and i'm and i start doing my thing and you know and i'm still a bit kind of baffled and i'm thinking about whether i tell you this but yeah i suppose why not i was i you know in my head i was also auditioning for this other thing which i had a callback for the next day it's like 10 years ago yeah not that it's that we can also yeah exactly um so i had the audition for the other thing the next day and the one the next day so this was so yeah i was there with michael from pete the next day i had the other audition i was meant to sign the test agreement before you do the test yes yeah and that's like them's the rules right um which to be honest here i am this is the danger of doing something

public speaking with you guys because i talk about things that probably i shouldn't talk about but i was coming from the uk i was like what is this madness where they sign a contract before you get the job where they can basically be like could be you could not be you we're not that fast so you have no negotiating power right so you're kind of just at a complete disadvantage so you've tasted capitalism now taste american capitalism i mean exactly that it's mad yeah it's mad i i i don't even the kind of powers shift yeah i imagine your response to it yeah yeah you know i was just like this is absolutely bizarre so you know you're meant to there but you know with a bit of ingenuity from my agent then because i had this other audition that was the next day because one

of the rules of the test is that once you test you can't audition for anything else right you're you're kind of theirs yeah so you sign it before you go into the room is how it always goes no it's how it's meant to be yes you do the audition the minute you sign it you can't audition for anything else you kind of belong to them and they have first refusal whatever the term is so basically they tell you when they don't want you and there's something in the test that says they have to tell you by a week or two weeks or 10 days or whatever it is right it's my memory but obviously this was going to be a problem because i had a call back for the thing the next day and the thing the next day you know being a kind of insular little englander was something that i

did know about because it was directed by an english person steve mcqueen um cool so i was like so steve mcqueen was doing this tv show about also also about an american so it was another american accent and the script was incredible and i was a big fan of it like shame is like one of my favorite films i think it's unbelievable so that was the next day and i was like well obviously i'm not going to sign this thing if it means i can't do it all back right yeah of course queen thing and so my agent worked some magic and basically i went into the test having not signed the test degree that's crazy wow i like now this is what i'm saying i'm like i don't even know if you can talk about it the statue the statue of limitations has passed

using a legal term um yeah yeah um to stress like that is that is quite unheard of especially you know for an actor that no one's heard of business affairs was probably like who like why are we making this concession i mean it's mad isn't it they they really wanted you for the role which is nuts and i'm sure i'll find it even more nuts when i when you guys dig out that audition my first audition i'll be like on the basis of this it's like my goodness so that was that was kind of how it went down so i go into the room and i'm doing the audition and of course none of these subtleties mean anything to me because i don't know anything about working the states right i don't i didn't know that to interpret that they wanted me or or anything and to be honest it was

only when i go into the room that i really realized that this is like the final hurdle because i was a bit like i did a tape i kind of forgotten about it and so pete it was michael who's he was kind of like we loved your tape we love what you did so you know let's just work on it and get it right because you know right we love we love what you're doing but this is for the people upstairs oh basically and i was like what i was sort of thinking this is just like a non-fit all of a sudden i was like oh oh something to lose do you know i mean you mean to do on the balcony seating in the mezzanine that's who i'm always playing to always play to the gods

you must you must to the gods is that what you said to the gods i love that you guys don't have that expression that's what you call at the back of the theater yeah yeah it's kind of a nice maybe i love that the cheap seats people say sitting in the gods so i started doing it and my accent i maybe had sort of decided to switch it slightly because the steve mcqueen thing was for someone who was like it was like super specific and he was from queens and it was about code switching and all sorts of things and so i was like you know basically listening to a lot of which is also like reference like tribe called quest like early 90s and so i'm i'm sort of trying to i was thinking like oh maybe that'll be good for this so i'm sort of like bring a little bit

of and i'm sure i did nothing well so there's also that and then michael was like what's with the accent because it's not sounding you know because i wasn't maybe i was sort of dropping some of the art color and doing things that i hadn't done the thing because i was trying to basically was like just take your time because we've got as long we need to get it right but just just just sort the axe and i was like okay i'll go back to the i'll go back to the general america yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah and um so i did it and i did it and i did it and you know i'm a bit like oh gosh this is an actual thing that i might get and i start praying out and then i like the accents off and i'm like and i don't have any kind of conviction

in it and they basically like take your time keep going so like i had kind of like it's just an unlimited it felt like they were like and i had to say i was like guys i i have to go i was like i've got to get to the theater i'm like i don't that's because it was something like it was kind of last thing in the day for the casting director and but obviously it had to work with like i think we're probably east coast but like timings and stuff and that night actually we were doing an nt live which is kind of basically i've seen them filmed the show yeah and send it out that's how i saw you do red right okay yes that's funny yes so nt like so it goes out all over the word world right so we had that that night and you know tom hiddleston's playing the lead so it was a massive

it was like a big old deal and it was that night and we you know because they edit it live and it's it's a massive undertaking so all the stress in the theater was about like anti-live anti-live anti-live get sort it out i'm doing this test audition that i thought i'd like go in and just like do it and don't worry about it and you know michael and pete trying to keep going i was like i really have to leave so i left i maybe like did one more like left and i was like well that didn't go great i was thinking i was like that's probably the end of that did the steve mcqueen audition the next day and i was like that went well i was like that felt like you never know if you're going to get it but i was like i think i did a good account i gave a good account of myself

and the work that i've done to prep and i didn't feel that for the how to get away with murder audition so what happens then i'm just waiting to hear but of course i'm not going to hear from murder until i sign the test degree oh my god so yeah it's it's an absolutely banana situation so that week passes and basically we're waiting to hear back from the steve mcqueen project yeah yeah yeah as he's like you know doing the awards circuit and it sort of gets the kind of and my agent was like basically you know we can't sign the thing until because once you're signed you're tied to that and so you know we'll just hold off on that for a bit and we'll hear back from the steve mcqueen thing and it's sort of getting towards the end of the week and i go

um i say what's the situation my agent says i was like well they're just waiting for steve mcqueen to watch it right and i was like oh that's great well wow it's you know for like baftas this weekend or something so i'm like waiting i'm like is he gonna have a spare five minutes to just watch my taste he's watching it at the bathroom after afters you know what i mean i was like so you know he's got better things to do i'm waiting and my agent calls me on the sunday night um this is over a week i think my test was on the thursday a week has passed over a week has passed and she was like look i don't think and she maybe warned me on the friday she was like i think you might have to make a decision blind because i don't here so you sign the test

agreement or you don't sign the test agreement and this was sunday night and so it gets to the monday and i'm waiting kind of all through the day just to be like you know he's picked up his umpteenth award for yeah 12 years a slave surely he's had five minutes now right you know i mean just like hoping and hoping right um because you know this is it's that thing and i've been on him i've been so unemployed before this play that i was doing and it's like you know and then sort of two things yeah before that i did that play but before that play i had been basically gone a year where i'd done two tv jobs where i'd done five days on each yeah and that was in the middle month and the job i'd done before those two i was on stage at the national theater so i was like

i remember thinking because i didn't train right so i was like which i saw you in right oh gosh yeah did you see timing of athens or was it yeah i remember i saw timing about that that's right yeah matt do you know this that i was coincidentally in london like working this illegal job i think i was getting paid under the table and i saw actually on stage statute of limitations uh and then i saw elfie on stage and i was like he's pretty good he's got like a good bit in the show you know cut to however many years later we're working together but yeah then you could revise your opinion at close quarters so that's fair enough we'll be right back now back to class so despite your like you know being on a set for a long time as a child

you were you were in some like leaner years yeah oh no not completely i mean look i you know i've done potter as a kid but i was in that weird situation where i finished harry potter i was at uni um i went to uni i didn't go to drama school and then you get it you're smart whatever who cares um your words not mine um title of the episode though can i say um you know and i didn't go to drama school so i was in a position where i had an agent and i had some credits but it's not like i had anything to do really in harry potter so it was like it was a bit like why should we cast this dude do you know what i mean we've got no like guarantee do you know i mean there's nothing kind of there's no substance i'm watching my nieces are super into harry potter right now

and i've been watching over the you know when i'm home for the holidays i watch one with them and i was like i was like hey that guy's my friend um i was like if you want we could facetime him and the six-year-old goes nah he just stands there exactly that is a perfect analysis see the problem with the six-year-old is the six-year-old's not in the industry too yeah and uh yeah just realized that just standing there actually but i think that's true i mean i think and i think it's i think it's a very alfie uh thing which i appreciate that to undervalue the just the you know like you're like but the work the work you know you can't see me do all the things um but at the end of the day i think yeah being in harry potter is a useful thing um in

terms of yeah in terms of from one thing to the next yeah undeniable right so i sorry exactly that you know thanks to harry potter i have my agent who i'm still with you know they pulled out of this amazing magic trick so you know there's there's a lot that that it gave me but it wasn't quite enough that it was like i wasn't really getting seen for that much stuff right and people sort of didn't really know what to do because it wasn't like i was famous off those so i was going to add anything in terms of being known or bringing an audience sure but also it was like can he do it i don't know he hasn't got the drama school like right all right he doesn't audition right and so i thought that job at the national uh and jack's you know uh approbation

was going to turn it all around for me and then i was unemployed practically for a year did these two jobs one of one of which was a sherlock episode which was like a great thing to be in but i spoke only in voiceover so really yeah oh wow that's so great so i was like if they cut the voiceover i am just an essay but happily they didn't but um so i wasn't in a position where i was like yeah it didn't like launch you no so i mean that that makes like this this crossroads the fork in the road that you're at yeah crazier because you're like i'm waiting to hear back from steve mcqueen right and then i also have this opportunity to go to move to america and be and be like kind of the lead of a tv show you know yeah i knew so little i mean i don't think i had

a script oh maybe i did have a script at that point yeah i did have a script at that point but yeah exactly just the the pilot which is brilliant but exactly i'm at this kind of nuts crossroad where i'm like and i had to basically sit myself down on that monday morning basically my agent was like we're gonna you're gonna have to sign this tomorrow so it's monday and i'm there thinking like wow i could work with steve mcqueen who's gonna pick up his oscar next week and you know i've seen 12 years a slave and i was like and the script was kind of amazing and it was very specifically about the experiences of a i think he was explicitly mixed race and then you know the chances you say it's like the lead in this like massive american show but i didn't

actually know that truly awesome but just the fact that it was like the lead in a show it's yeah yeah you know whatever i'm like um so though i didn't have the kind of tea leaf reading ability probably all of you guys had much more of a sense of what it was than i did so i'm sitting there on that monday and i'm like i'm gonna have to make call blind and i called a friend of mine who i basically called him because i thought he will give me the right advice you know he will give me some good reasonable advice and i thought he was gonna say look you know it sounds like because my agent then talked me through it and they were like look i think they really want you about how to get away with murder and i thought he'll tell me that and he'll say you've got that

and there's the steve mcqueen thing but he hasn't actually watched it and you don't actually know and he was like this is steve mcqueen i was like oh that's not that's not what i came to and so i was like oh that day was just mad yeah sometimes it's clarifying too when you go to someone for that advice and then they're and then they give you they give you something that's not what you want and then it clarifies because you're like oh no i i was not looking for that i was looking for this other thing and then your your own sort of self-advocacy like kind of like steps up i find yes it was really helpful and that was exactly that i had to take responsibility for the thing that i'd actually right subconsciously decided but in a way it was the kind of it felt

like the reasonable choice sure sure now let me just stress like what a luxury and i didn't know i didn't have any kind of real sense of what how to get where it was going to go on to become and and in a way i was limited by like my own experience in that like i'd watched all of steve mcqueen's films right and was gonna like and and like hadn't basically watched ever watched american network television show like i didn't have a kind of frame of reference but you know i he told me that and i was like oh and i was thinking maybe he's right maybe and i was like no that and i remember being actually in a way that you both will know i'm not a kind of shrewd calculating or particularly kind of you know empirical person but i sat myself down and i said

look it looks like there's this one job it looked that that looks really positive it looks like and want you yeah steve mcqueen still hasn't seen the tape who knows when he's going to watch the tape who knows if it's going to go and there was this other thing in the test agreement that basically there was there was a limitation on how long they could hold you for so i thought there's a world here where i if i get that job amazing that would be to get either of these jobs would be incredible yeah i was like so either i get this have to get away with another job incredible or i don't and they will presumably tell me within five ten days you just don't have to say anything to the steve mcqueen job and maybe that will you know my best chance to play both was that right

it was just sort of calculating in a way that i sort of never am or even just just like rational um so i so that's what happened so i said right look at it i'm gonna do it i'm gonna sign the test agreement right just right you know that's great and i genuinely it was i was chatting to friend of mine who did that coriolanus job that was the first time we worked together and he was like man i remember that i remember that in the second half in the second half of the play it was a bit quieter for me and i was up there signing the test agreement which had to be scammed and faxed in the theater during the show in the office during the second half to get it because i left it to the like close of play and close of play was like you know basically they needed it by the

this is this is also how old we are that it was before digital signatures we need a wet signature on paper right it needs to be i had to get around to the office scan it yeah upload it you can imagine that was also i was gonna miss my last entrance from that's doing all that oh funny wow um so it was nuts so i so i did that send it off finished the show went to bed woke up in the morning from a call from my agent said you got you got the part no fucking way and honestly that was the most like i was like wow i was literally like it was it was like i've talked about that kind of situation i was like it was unthinkable like the part was great the story was great that pilot is fantastic but yeah the script is incredible um and i was

just like wow you know i was just like how is this how has this happened you know it's what that that was i mean talk about harry potter and obviously that was such a that's a you know that was my route into the industry but how to get away with the motive was the job totally changed yeah right yeah you know i wouldn't i wouldn't be doing i wouldn't be at the rsc if it was for that right do you remember do you remember how soon after you're coming to america yeah it wasn't long so we finished the run of the play maybe february maybe late jam early february and then it was february wasn't it was late february we were in it so it was almost like maybe it was even a few days after we finished yeah i was on the flight so i'm there you know thinking like

i've got to do and and you know there was a lot that in a way kind of kind of bridged the gap between between you know the theater in london and and doing how to get doing american network television which was that the pilot had already been written we had this period of time and it wasn't much but basically during the days while i was finishing the play i was you know doing a kind of the kind of prep process that i would do yeah for any play yeah um which that that process didn't didn't stand up to the fast pace of shooting later yeah and that was something that but i remember being that the anticipation of that moment i mean it was just totally it was totally surreal and and and sort of before long after having had a couple of dialect sessions i was

like i need a dialect coach i need i need to work on this accent i need to i need to not be worrying about this basically yeah and so they set me up with the dialect coach in london who i worked with for a little while and i was like talk to my agent can we make sure there's a dialect coach there for the pilot yeah because you know partly also from the experience of having felt shaky in the accent on the on the test right and then all of a sudden i'm on this flight to philadelphia and it's like guys i can't you know it must have been a trip for all of us but philadelphia united states what a liberty city what i think yes that's right let the bells ring out freedom like i had never tasted that's right that's right um yeah my american is so old it

became british by the way just to clarify what's happening no i got that i like yeah okay good good good yeah you bridged the gap thank you i just need credit probably what i sounded like early doors um but you know you remember pete sent us that one out yeah do you remember this this book about being a first year law student and i i sat there business class on the flight and that's not something i'd experienced many times prior in my life right if ever so everything about the network the network has to fly you business class healthy wasn't buying a business class ticket oh yeah right right yeah sorry i'm protecting your reputation i know don't want people thinking i'm a spend no no no no um that's right so so i'm there sitting in this

plane on my own going to philly to shoot this pilot off to do this show and i actually i'm gonna work on screen i actually have stuff to do do you know i mean i'm not just gonna be standing in the background now like everything about it and to be honest i was mostly standing in the background on stage as well at that time um so i was like you're the fucking best at standing now you can see me and i was reading one l out loud the whole flight that's what i did i was so that's what i did yeah quietly because i didn't want people i didn't want to get kicked out of business class to get kicked off the job to practice

your american accent yeah to practice my american accent oh i see okay i was confused and i had and i yeah just just to really embody it um that wasn't a methodology thing that was just the despair uh practice the accent and i remember the first person i saw was matt and i actually decided i was like maybe i'm gonna i think the idea of speaking in the american accent all the time already come to me so i was like i'm gonna do it then i'm on the flight and then i was like i'm not gonna do it i'm not even there it's weird it's weird but i was practicing and reading and then i was like when i land i'm gonna do it so i spoke to the guy who picked me up in the car that you know car that the network sent in the american accent it's awful it's awful i'm like

i sound awful this is ridiculous i was like just keep it up keep it up and get out the car at the hotel and i still remember those steps and just as i arrived matty you were the first person i saw and you were coming down the steps you're heading out oh really of the hotel yeah yeah do you know it's funny i remember yeah i don't remember it and we kind of looked at each other because obviously maybe we'd had a cast list or whatever yeah googled each other at times like and you were like hi and i was like hello like immediately just like not only dropped the accent but like did a sort of parody of britishness yeah oh my god a slight wow yes exactly i mean genuinely was kind of on that level i was like i just had this moment as we looked at each other

o'clock and as well as the like are we doing it i thought am i really gonna speak to him this accent is so awful no i can't oh my god it was a trip it was a good thing i was just i was gonna say little did you know that you know for a long time i couldn't tell the difference between your british accent and your american accent you know that yes i do remember even at the end of like when you would stop when we stopped filming i don't know why but you i just couldn't tell that there was a difference i don't know if it's because your voice is very distinctive sort of anyway to me that i just mostly think of it as an alfie voice rather than based on the location it transcends exactly exactly exactly well i think that this i think

that your this makes a lot of sense for you because like i mean all joking aside you are like one of the most disciplined actors i've ever met or worked with like you care about the work i think to such a degree that i think even at times on the show when i was having a hard time with the work it would inspire me that you were still committed to doing the work every day which man i will talk about that later but yeah because i remember i mean to to add some color like i remember being on the flight to philly and like i was taking the lsat you know like i was taking a practice lsat yeah yeah and about three quarters of the way through i was like yeah this is too fucking hard i you know and then i like put on a movie so i think that it it speaks volumes to like

who you are as an actor that you're just drilling your your american accent reading 1l but yeah i mean in i i can imagine too right like because matt of course out of the three of us by far had the most experience working on american television and was famous and um i mean you were obviously famous from potter but famous probably not the words i would use but i mean you you stick out people people see you in a crowd people see me standing there yeah but uh no but i think that i can deeply relate to like that anxiety of showing up on the first day and being like what what are we in for which it feels like coming from london like i mean you you didn't really know i mean none of us really knew what we had no idea but you feel like asian asian and i think

matt yeah and matt did you know i mean for some degree i i have to i have this this part is so good it lives around free my mind forever um but do you remember we were in the lobby i don't even know if we'd started shooting it and you and i were chatting alfie and i was like wow i was like i hope i hope we get like 22 episodes a season and eight seasons and you were like what and i was like yeah i was just like i hope it's like super successful and that like you know every season we get like 22 episodes and like eight seasons and you just you were just like what are you talking about you just genuinely could not understand what i was talking about and it became clear that you did not understand that the standard for british television which is what maybe like

six episodes maybe two seasons every three years right and that you didn't know that you had signed a contract for up to like 22 right all right i do i do remember this i'll give you my my memory of it i remember this as we were all together and we weren't in the lobby we were maybe in your or someone's room okay and you had demonstrated the power the the most delicious side of american capitalism by getting some better jerry's magic up to this room yeah because you sent a message on social media to me this was like this is that the word influencer did not exist right in philly um i would love some better cherries that might genuinely within like an hour we had better jack and i remember we were all sitting there like wow

it was like cavemen who just seen fire and some kind of sense they might get to wield it one day right um so we're sitting around eating the spoils of matt's fame and we were talking about and you said exactly that and i and i remember going what you're like yeah you know eight seasons i thought it was seven but anyway maybe it might have been yeah you know probably yeah yeah because sevens within the contract so i was so you know and i was just and as you say i was totally baffled and i remember you saying that i thought jack said no i think maybe asia said well i can't remember it but i think my memory was that asia went did you not read the contract or maybe you said did you not read the contract right yeah and i was like yeah no but i thought that was

theoretical i was like and you all you all did exactly that and laughed even more uproariously and i was like yeah and they were like theoretical i was like well yeah like they're just so they've got the option but like they were like they're obviously gonna that's that's obviously the idea and i was like but that's it's called how to get away with murder what are they gonna do kill someone new every season that's that's i said and i drew i was like that's ridiculous and i remember jack you lead up to put your hand on my shoulder welcome to america it's funny because like we got that we had pete on last week and he kind of said the same thing where like he wrote the pilot and then once it got picked up and they he had to like they had

to keep doing it every season he was like why why did i do this like this is crazy like we just have to kill someone every every season it's mad yeah and it was beyond genuinely beyond my comprehension i was literally like this would be like one season 10x if it gets picked up i was literally like you you've said it's got such a tight narrative structure it was sort of what i thought i knew about dramaturgy um you know there's a clear structure you've got the night you've got the thing you you catch up to the thing you resolve it and they get you know locked up or they get away with it and that's the end and that's and and that is what we're seeing in television now like now it is limited series you know like it makes sense to me that people are like okay

clear beginning middle and end and we're out in you know 10 12 episodes um but yeah it's so i i also remember you being surprised by that but it was so such an ignorance of you know i mean it was such an expression of the fact that i had no idea what i was going into the way you guys but i mean it is it is completely antithetical to how british television is made so it's it's not you know wholly your flaw like yeah the contract but as you were scanning it maybe take a glance at it the thing is that's the thing that that that kind of in a way shows how how in that sense unprepared i was because i had read it i did know that and i no part of me considered that that was a possibility a possibility i was like it just doesn't make

any narrative sense how the hell is that gonna work right it's like it's like the clause in the contracts they're like called like you know what is like act of god or whatever they call it exactly if there's an earthquake like sure right right exactly if there's an earthquake 23 episodes yeah exactly yeah yeah that's yeah it's not the force of god it's the force of consumer capitalism yeah yeah yeah that's very extraordinary yeah i'm curious yeah do you have any i mean there's maybe a broad question but do you have any favorite memories from from the show um oh my god from the show my that's just it's just so much it's interesting because you know when people ask me about harry potter i have it's also was longer longer ago but um but i remember so little

my memory is dreadful my memory for murder is actually quite good there's quite a lot i i think it also it's just a time in my life that sort of was also more it's just closer you know but it's are closer in terms of experience it also was just i think pivotal it was a kind of divine it was a clean break in a way that harry potter wasn't for me because i was in school or university at the same time and going back and forth and that whereas murder was this kind of its own thing whereas there i was out in the states doing the you know just everything was different i mean genuinely one of the one of the things i was i always remember that time in philly but it's like as we're talking about it more things come back to me about yeah you know what we did around there

like i you know there was that great lobster roll place do you remember that i mean like little things like that like i remember like well i'll tell you my favorite thing that i remember is not anything specific i mean there are specific things but it was this all of you guys but i mean it is truly it was just such a it was an amazing like the intimacy that is possible when you have people who are working together very hard doing something that they love and they're choosing to do because they love it do you know what i mean whatever the challenges that come in the way but ultimately if you're and that applies to like any acting job i think potentially right you're you're doing something very intimate because you are sharing in the work the things that you've kind of chosen

to build your life around right and that you've and that it's it's a vocation um i always find it odd when people talk about vocational degrees and university courses it's like as ones that have like a sort of practical things you know uh not that that can't be someone's vocation but but i think we do it because we love it you know i mean so when you do that with anyone else and share that with anyone else that's that's the basis of a huge intimacy to be doing it you know working 14 hours seven months a year you know there's so much and also experiencing that sudden change yeah to go through something totally changes your life yeah we've talked about that a little bit where it's like it felt special too because of the way the art was imitating life where we were all

you know bright-eyed bushy-tailed law students walking into this university and that very much mirrored our experience as actors on this set which became you know this big big uh monolith of a show and how yeah there's there's like bonding in the trenches of that obviously there's also i just did something like really special about like in a just the profession of acting in a job where you get to where you just know that you have so much ahead of you you know what i mean like where you're just like oh we're meeting now and we're going to be working together for this amount of time you know or for the minimum of this amount of time and i don't know for me and just being able to be transplanted into different situations and you're just focused

you know like you said on like kind of working together create this like the best story you know product and yeah it's just it's really powerful you know and then we just also happen to be such a great people exactly you know it i don't think that's how i viewed it no you did help me let's make a great product today after three years exactly it is it is a bit of a like i i was reflecting on this the other day because i'm about to start doing this theater thing and how excited i am to be like have that time with just the past and you know because being an actor is by virtue like a pretty lonely profession like you know if i think if you have if so much of your community are fellow actors and everything's going well for everyone presumably no one's

around like people are on sets all around the world and working and booked and busy and and i think about my best friends and how it was hard for you know them to be on different sets across the country and world and how special it was for us to have that time together where it's like five days a week we are together and then oftentimes on the weekends we were you know in each other's lives um and how yeah how the intimacy that that that grows it's massive and the feeling of kind of home and family of it you know i've never since potter i've not spent that much time playing one part yeah working with one kind of company of actors yeah do you know what i mean i mean we did you know i was doing for 21 months and we were doing five days a week and 14 hour weeks

yeah you know it's it's a lot of time it's a lot 14 hour 14 hour days yeah sorry 14 yeah these hollywood kids you can tell i've been doing theater don't you 14 hour weeks and you're like oh i forgot to do two shows on a saturday um but yeah i mean and there's something just about also just you're just doing it you are just doing it and doing it and doing it and the relentlessness of it is a gift um as an actor just just to have spent that much time you know i stand it i stand on that when i go onto a set but you know i i don't get the luxury now really of being on a set where i'm that you know everyone yeah in that way and like well do you know i mean yeah there's there's a lot of questions that come up uh from the reddit

community about like like matt i don't even think we've talked about this but everyone's like oh we talk about where everyone went to undergrad but like where did connor and asher go to undergrad and it's i i understand like the quite like the desire to like have this specificity from from an audience that are fans of the show but it's almost like when you play a character for that long you don't even think about like details like that anymore because you just are the early that's how i feel where i would i would walk up to set and almost have like done no prep for a lot of scenes because i trusted my relationship with everyone so much and the crew and you know everyone that's making the show where i was just like yeah i can just put on connor's suit and i am him but

i'm curious like given coming from the theater where you you did have the the repetitions of doing this dramaturgical work like what what was it like going on to a network tv show and we did you know talk with pete about how how little we knew as cast members and at times how little information we had and and doing the flash forwards and the present day and and um yeah what was your relationship to that yes that was that was really hard the pilot was amazing as an experience in so many ways and also we just had much more time and we're working on a script that you knew and so that was sort of in some sense my expectation i remember this is something man you and i used to talk about all the time because our processes were like diametrically opposed and

it makes a lot of sense to me knowing that you would work so much in tv like you have a process fit for purpose for that not fit for purpose for what i'm doing you know but i would i would try and sort of do basically all the prep i would do before rehearsal starting on a play before every episode sometimes you get the episode on you know wednesday night work all day thursday and then you're shooting it on friday so it's like when are you when are you gonna do that um so i found that really difficult and i think ultimately people come at it differently but but i think i still believe i'm gonna i'm gonna sort of engage in the parody of myself that both of you enjoy by referring to something i saw mark rylance wrote somewhere and he said people

always ask actors how do you remember all those lines but i think the real thing is forgetting them and i totally agree with that i think but the forgetting is you can't forget what you don't know do you know what i mean i suppose the way i work is it's kind of like what you're talking about jack right you you sort of build a you build a structure for yourself which you can then forget and then you know the availability of the moment yeah you go oh i've been thrown this thing and what's the best tool to deal with this obstacle it's this one i happen to have here do you know what i mean so i think there's an availability that you you enable if you're genuinely prepared and and that that's sort of still really the kind of fundamental basis of how i work so yeah and i

think by virtue by virtue of us not having the material or not having it for very long like i think at least myself like i became very reliant upon that work and the instincts of just trusting everyone around me you know and that we would respond truthfully i guess yes yes i mean it's but it's it's a both and to me do you know what i mean it's not like i think my ability to be present and play really depends on a kind of secure footing which comes from that kind of unglamorous sometimes plodding private work yeah sifting through all that stuff i mean another side of it was just i remember we read the second episode when we were starting shooting the season we'd been picked up and we're there we're like we're doing this thing it's happening my god

and i remember having watched the pilot and not hated it and i don't mean that about the pilot i mean i just hate watching myself in anything and i remember being like oh it's okay maybe i don't know maybe it was just in a strange sweet spot of optimism and hopefulness but um but i remember reading that second episode and being like my mind was a bit blown and i was like this is what happens next like i've never like i've never you know obviously on the one hand with harry potter and i remember i can associate with that because i used to get those books and i'd be like what happens next to d thomas you know whatever yeah sure yeah but um you know because i had so much less to do not the same so like reading the second episode but i do you know what i mean i'd never

you know you do the play you know you're at the end or you're not yeah whatever and that's kind of it so to be able to find out what happens next was kind of thrilling but um but but you know the thing that was the big challenge was was about scripts and not not feeling like you had scripts you know feeling like you didn't have scripts in time to do the work that i wanted to do which to me was important to do the work as well as i could you know yeah yeah you know i was i was really agitated i was trying to sort of start a trade union practically over that first season scripts for actors yeah scripts for actors scripts scripts scripts wow that was what a convo so we have to we have to break this up into two episodes because it's

too long yeah we do alfred loves to talk and i love that for us goodness gracious we gotta get this boy a podcast yeah i know you know i feel like we should just get him like a mic i was just a lot of mic yeah just a shirt and like not even plug it in but just tell him that he's broadcasting to broadcasting across the globe and be like people are really interested in hearing more about shakespeare right and he'll just talk for 17 hours every day totally i also just love that we're still learning things about each other like this his entire casting story like i'm convinced i had never heard right um and it's just absolutely bananas yeah and i think just to like his he has no ego about him which i really value and i i've like i really love that

about him and and at in times our friendship i've resented that about him and i'm reminded every time i get into a long like you know phone call or whatever with him i'm just like god what a pain to be so you know devoid of any ego yeah but i value i must respect it yeah yeah i respect the heck out of it yeah but yeah this is only part one we got we got a lot more conversation with him coming next week to your ear holes a two-parter prepare your cochleas that's right yeah um i have swimmers here in my right ear so i every now like it developed during how to during murder and i remember noticing for the first time at up table read where like we you know you clap at the end of the table and i remember just hearing static noise in my right ear oh no

yeah and I went to uh an ENT and he was like were you a swimmer which I was in high school and growing up competitive swimmer so it was from swimming wow yeah because I have like tennis elbow or golfer's elbow but I don't golf you know heck yeah very cool yeah yeah swimmer's ear tennis elbow it's a very millstone of me yeah exactly that's method acting baby that is um well please tune in next week even if you have swimmer's ear or tennis elbow yeah especially if you have tennis elbow yeah exactly this will be uh helpful for your tendons that's right and like and subscribe tell a friend tell a friend and you can always email us at how we got away with murder at gmail.com always all right love you love you bye how we got away with murder is an original

production by podcast nation produced by james brown and alicia paneer audio production by Miles Carter. Original music by Elefante.