How We Got Away with Murder - Alfred Enoch: Part 2

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

It’s part two of our conversation with Alfie—and spoilers ahead! We cover everything from the show’s legacy and the social experiment that is fame to the curious fate of his prop bicycle. Alfie reflects on his character’s evolution, audience reactions, and the emotional toll of living in high-stakes drama for years. Plus, behind the scenes stories on questionable traffic tickets, People Magazine sexiest man lists, and roller-skating dive bars.We want to hear from you! Send us your show and episode questions with the chance to be read on the air during an episode: [e-mail] Matt & Jack:IG: @jackfalaheeTIKTOK: @jackfalaheeX: @RestingPlatypusREDDIT: u/ItsMeJackFalaheeIG: @mattmcgorryTIKTOK: @matt.mcgorryX: @MattMcGorryFacebook: @ActorMattMcGorrySponsors:Hero Bread: This year, hit your goals without giving up your favorite bready dishes. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code JACKANDMATT at checkout.Ollie: Show your dog some love in the way they understand best. Head to Ollie.com/jackandmatt, tell them all about your dog, and use code JACKANDMATT to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! Plus, they offer a Happiness Guarantee on the first box, so if you’re not completely satisfied, you’ll get your money back.This podcast is brought to you by Podcast Nation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

hey everyone my name is matt mccorry and i played the character asher millstone on how to get away with murder and i'm jack fallahy and i played connor walsh on that very same tv show and this is the how we got away with murder podcast welcome back welcome back welcome back that was a riveting part one of the Alfred Enoch two-parter. I was gripping the chair and the table. That's right. Just a reminder, this is part two of a two-parter. So if you have not listened to part one,

you should get out of here and go back into the feed and hit part one. Get out of here. Get out. Yeah, get out, you jerk. I'm just kidding. But also, there's a spoilers. So if you haven't seen the whole show,

you might not want to listen to this one just yet. But you can listen to part one. That's right. spoilers ahead but also it's been 12 years so what are you doing but we're introducing new viewers to the show that's right yeah right in 2058 that's right they're watching the show for the first time from a space shuttle right in their cryogenic chambers their non-consensual neural link okay spoilers ahead i hope i'm still alive future listener spoilers ahoy enjoy we recapped the first episode a couple weeks ago and one of the first notes i made was like

i think the sex third scene i wrote god i'll be such an asshole because it's you biking through the campus and you're just biking with no hands and i was like what a dick like just you just like no i bike i'm from london i know how to bike so yeah that that uh that work that script work really really to be honest it's funny even something like that there was conversations about that of course i know like my coffee was like i think this idea to cycle maybe i had in that first i think that pilot like a shiny they used to have those clips feels like you'd never see them anymore for people so your genes don't get caught in the space yeah yeah right and it was also like high viz and

shiny i think michael hoff i had this idea of this detail of the thing so i sort of still had it on and that but that didn't last through the rest of the season yeah um there's no time there's no time to put it on exactly no time murder murder there's murders murders exactly yeah um but i think even that he was like you know i think maybe he cycles and is this and i was like okay so if we're telling the story and he has this like you know old racing bike which is what it initially was in philly but then it was a sort of replacement version yeah original racing bike but um you know i was like he can cycle no-handed that's cool yeah of course yeah why wouldn't he why wouldn't he you you stole that bike i think and left it with me like you made me an accessory to your crime after you

statute of limitations after you leave america i have your contraband bike and i don't know where it is wow you've lost it that could have been a raffle that could have been a prize for this i know i could have made i could have made so many thousands you know i mean uh what is yeah where is that bike now do we think like is is sounds like jack would know better than i the bottom of the la river that's right so someone can just swing by pick it up yeah i don't know where it is i i've lost it in some i think i gave it to a friend no i think like i didn't i didn't like toss it i think that a friend needed transportation and i was like i have this i have this prop bicycle i can bequeath this to you it's incredibly heavy yeah it's incredibly

have because at that point i'm like you know i was like doing triathlons and stuff and i was like this this bike serves no purpose this is useless to me i need a fiberglass carbon you know but yeah that that like hunk of metal that you left you also left i think like a cut out like a lifestyle cut of myself of yourself you make me sound really bad by sharing that with well you didn't you you did not own that that was a joke yeah i did not commission it or exactly own it entirely willingly actually this is from Wes's funeral wasn't it yeah

that's right that was right yeah brought it yeah for me and then when I moved out the house yeah it was kept as a reminder of my presence this is maybe a bit of a how

casual I guess you it's because I was very anxious about fame and I think that you're pretty you know you're like a just like an affable like down-to-earth guy and it didn't seem i'm sure it affected you in many ways and whatever but i i whatever it must be nice must be nice to not need you know six hours of therapy a week but um but i remember you when we moved or when you and matt had to move to la to when the show gets picked up you being you know a pretty frugal guy you're like i'm just gonna find an apartment on craigslist yeah and you find you know a fine apartment it's

pretty affordable i guess for maybe a network television actor and you know it was it was walking distance to where we are shooting which is a dream to get a car yep totally makes total sense and but you just moved in with a rather lovely person but someone you did not know and i i vividly remember being at the premiere party in september at one of shonda's houses and she was you know she was being super nice and asking how we were finding la and where we were all living and and the topic of your apartment came up and how you found this great place off craigslist and like the color left shonda's face and she was like you can't you can't live with a stranger off craigslist and correct me if i'm wrong but i am pretty sure she

offered you her house the house we were in i have a vivid memory of she was like you can stay here until we get you set up somewhere and i was like sort of like tugging your your suit jacket being like take it take it take the mansion like obviously take shonda's house but i think it speaks volumes to just like i i don't know i never saw you change if that makes sense i i was very yeah aware of how i was changing and and how the pressure of the show and newfound fame and all yeah how that that affected me and how i interacted with the world but like you were taking the bus which like i wouldn't take the bus on a normal day in los angeles and it was both inspiring to see but i also thought at times it was like complete lunacy

i don't even really know what my question is but like like do you think like you know you're you're was it lunacy was it was it are you insane no i i don't know like was was growing up for lack of a better word on a set like the exposure to it or i mean or do you think it's just like you're like genuine curiosity for the world yeah i think that's that's maybe part of it i think probably more than anything else what you're telling me that makes me think of as just like my stubborn like like on some level i was just like i'm not going to change anything you know i was like and i think there was a kind of denial i was like there's actually a little bit of inflexibility there you know i was like this is the way i do things and also this is the way i'm used to things

i mean in terms of i didn't i took a posture against like going to la and getting a car and going to party do you know what i mean i was just a bit like i'm not gonna do that and obviously yeah i did we went to parties and it was just never i suppose on some level it just never like really appealed to me i feel like i've taken this more into a slightly different direction in terms of fame but i think i was trying to kind of deny it on some level like i was just like i am not i'm going to be uncompromising and i'm not going to make any concessions to this i remember this happened once jack when you were in london you remember him you were walking about you were you know you were having a horrible time because we ended up in like oxford circus like certainly

out in public you were there like hat shades like head down look at look like to me looking suspiciously furtive but apparently that's how everyone else walks around or maybe we're just scared to look twice and i'm there just like bouncing around and you're just like and we were just getting stumped and you're like dude just like wear a hat or something like you're like i just a magnet for people yeah like people like you just can't miss you and also you know i'm there wearing like high-vis neon coats or like whatever i'm wearing you're like a traffic cone tall lanky and like you know black practically flashing um so it's like and i think in a way and i remember i think i only once have gone out in public and firstly i it's just a weird i don't

like wearing hats or shades so i was like i'm not going to change that part of me does that because i'm like i'm not going to go around in the expectation of being stopped yeah it's interesting i laughed actually because i literally walked out of my house this morning and i'm at my front door someone was like are you and i was like wow that's a frightening moment yeah a little bit and i was sort of a bit like can i lie it was nice seeing you right jim you know whatever but you know the person was perfectly lovely and it was fine but i think i have a kind of privacy that also is tied up with the same thing which is kind of just about not but not accepting that my life should be any different to how it has hitherto been so i don't want to go out and be

like i'm gonna wear a hat i did it once in new york because like new york you know it's so dense and i was staying in manhattan but to be honest it doesn't seem to make that much difference at least to me at least when you're going around you know in neon and i wore a hat and i it was maybe after we'd had this conversation and i wore a hat and i didn't look at anything yeah and i because i was late that was the reason i was late and i needed to get across manhattan i was gonna walk and it was gonna mow whatever uh and so i'm walking and i'm just like just basically like power walking and i tell you i remember the first person i made eye contact walking for about 15 minutes i literally went and i like caught me i literally was like oh my gosh it's the

and like the first person and i thought oh yeah and i suppose in that moment i realized oh this is the cost like if i want to go around kind of like you said right like if i want to go around and i want people not to stop me or talk to me or whatever because i'm in a bad mood or i'm in a hurry or whatever i essentially have to like not look at people yeah and one of my favorite things totally yeah you know i mean like as you say so the curiosity thing is part of it and i was like I'm not going to accept that. There's something kind of maybe slight stubborn and a bit quixotic about it.

Like I'm just going to go about in the way that I've always gone about and I'm not prepared to trade that. And so even things like taking the bus in LA, like a lot of it was like, this is what I do back home. Why shouldn't I do? Why am I not going to do?

People don't, but it was obviously in that context, it's like totally borderline eccentric. And now a word from our sponsors. And we are back. Yeah, I also do. I mean, Jack commented this on this, too, but I think you have a curiosity about you that is kind of unlike anything that I've really seen with other people. You have a curiosity about about things, but also about people, you know, and I think that if you had no constraints of time, you would be just happy talking to anyone everywhere all the time, which, you know, I mean, also you have an energy, which is like just you have a level of energy also that allows that to be possible. I know we were, we often talked about the, the difference of that, you know, on set where I'm like napping, you know, at lunch and you're like still talking to people and I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah. Or like playing basketball. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then I also, I mean, I imagine that like, I mean, you, you truly, you know, care so deeply about the work and I, you know, I've always kind of said, I'm like, I think Alfie could be live his best life just doing like theater all the time.

And, you know, even if it wasn't, you know, high profile theater, I think you would just genuinely enjoy it. You enjoy diving into the work that much, you know, which is I had forgotten until earlier in the conversation that there were times, especially earlier on that we were all like making plans and you're like, oh, no, I can't. I have to go. I have to go study, you know, and work and stuff. and and then interestingly the part about the fame you know maybe not changing you as much i think correct me if i'm wrong but you've always had like a you have like a natural confidence you know and i think that where where fame can be toxic is when people even jack and i have had our own you know like lack of confidence at times especially early on and then the fame can come on top of that and almost like create like a super compensatory you know uh effect you know but i think that you you've always had a not like a not an arrogance by any means but just like a sort of a self-assuredness yeah that you know it didn't feel you had to lean into fame to sort of

try and you know uh deal with those demons or whatever you know yeah that's interesting yeah maybe maybe there is a bit of that i mean you know obviously we're tuned to our own lack of confidence however it manifests itself or however we experience it but i think there is something about that and if nothing else an assuredness but nothing else that kind of commitment to like i want to do things this do you know an assuredness to be like i suppose if nothing else a confidence to be like i if nothing else i enjoy being contrarian like i think on that's maybe maybe more than anything else that's the biggest thing i i kind of loved that everyone i would have done it anyway for a range of reasons sure but i loved that i turned up and everyone was like

you're taking the bus right you're to the gq awards exactly exactly so then it sort of becomes like yeah i'm gonna do that exactly i'm gonna take the gq awards or i'm gonna do you know i mean because i'm yeah because it feels like a way of asserting myself against these expectations for sure yeah the nature of the industry in the states is very different the experiences that you had leading up to that point were different and so you you like it's suddenly being do you know i mean you guys are on home turf and i think that sort of changed so much in terms of how you experienced that yeah i don't know i mean i i've been it's been nice re-watching it where i think i think that in my 20s or even my early 30s i would joke with friends that i i would like give

myself a b minus or c plus in like navigating fame like in just how it affected me personally and my own mental health and anxiety and all those things but now watching it i'm like oh we're so young like oh my god and i have so much grace for myself now and and empathy for for young jack yeah where it's it's been a it's been a really uh healing journey thus far and i think especially being able to like to have you know someone as beautiful as matt to like talk through these things with is really amazing and encouraging and yeah but it's it's been i've found myself talking about my my past self with a lot more like love and care um so it like i know that it was this really because matt you're totally right like for me the reaction everything came from

like a place of like deep insecurity and i think that i think that yeah watching it now i'm just like well sure yeah you're 23 when this this call came in that completely changed your life and no one no one taught you how to do this like there's no there's no uh you know book there probably is some book about how to be famous but i didn't read probably is now but yeah that would have been then yeah probably not then yeah matt that's actually not a bad idea or how not to be famous yeah you should maybe write that book yeah yeah there are a lot of people trying to be famous now true the intro yeah it's a strange pressure cooker yeah i can't remember who's who said it but there's like that quote that it's you know fame's the best thing in the world but i wouldn't

wish it on my worst enemy which i i think about a lot but um but i think that not to make it all about fame i think that it came more elfie from like an appreciation of like it it seemed unwavering your dedication to the work and like the authenticity and i think that i saw that just in your life too where like sure maybe there's a bit of this like country and like where you wanted to you know stick it to the the system or the idea of the structure but but it felt it it i know that it's it's just who you are and i think that that that really helped me to like stay anchored in ways to to reality so i even though i was like rolling my eyes you know i didn't come across i'm just trying to have some tapas with you in spain i just you know like i don't want like

a line of people trying to get photos with you and i was rolling my eyes but but i think that you keeping doors open you know in to the world and like that curiosity really really did help me at times so yeah thank you for that no that's a very generous thing to say i mean look it's it was a surreal situation for all of us to be in do you know what i mean if there's anything that and again i think what you're saying makes me think of that thing of being in it together and there is something just very as i say to go back to the best thing about it which is working with you guys like it's it's by which i was i mean asian carlo conrad and charlie the you know but i specifically i suppose the the five of us you know us three and asia and carla

we were we were in you know coming from different literally from different places and with different levels of experience and different expectations another way but you you got to see how other people dealt with it i remember something that's something you guys remember you guys talking about it about how how it's difficult to observe sometimes that difference between friends who are not going through this experience and and and you said something really valid i think you were like there's there's so many things about our experience which is quite unusual and it's hard not to be able to share that with people and it's it's it's useful you know i always used to satirize and still do to be honest that the idea that famous people become friends with famous people

just because they're famous is like what the hell is that about you know i mean come on but i think you were acknowledging in that some of the unique pressures of that experience of being in the public eye in that way and then that's something that when you're navigating it's important to be able to talk about and and yeah you know that that would that was all you know those perspectives also helpful to me as i've come to think about the ways i was like oh i was just in a kind of blanket sort of stubborn denial or opposition about it and yeah i think you're absolutely right jack for me especially at the time i was like i need to be doing all this work and you know that was that was a very kind of practical kind of consideration in that but i've

since thought about it and i'm like there are things that i i know i have to do differently if nothing else because the way it affects the people i'm with and the ways that they you know the privacy that they get to enjoy or don't get to enjoy we'll be right back now back to class it makes me think too that you know like fame is a type of privilege and like any type of privilege even the people who you know under this under a system that creates privilege right like even the people who have the privilege are still ultimately deal with some harm of that system not not to the extent of people who don't have the privilege right but like even like men under patriarchy right um they don't deal with what gender marginalized people deal with but it still

ultimately is not incredibly humanizing you know and fame it doesn't give you the full scope exactly yeah exactly i am curious to know do you have any sort of words that you would offer alfie you know 10 years you know previously and i'd be interested in jack if you want to share if you have any thoughts as well for your any words you want to offer alfie i'm just kidding anything you'd offer yourself or you know just opportunity we can we can let's all tell alfie listen here you little goodness what would i say yeah sort of difficult i mean i you know i feel like i was really fortunate so it's not like i don't look back and sort of really feel like i should have

necessarily there's too much i was like should have tried to tell myself that i should have done something differently particularly i just mean in life too by the way i don't think that was unclear yes no yeah any any hint that the that the 10-year wiser alfie would have offered um but maybe you're just content to you know live with the curiosity of yeah i love that i think you kind of you've just got to find it for yourself do you know i mean look i say that again from a position of privilege of looking back and being like i've been pretty fortunate i've been extremely fortunate i've had a good time of things do you know what i mean and and you know so i wouldn't necessarily be trying to put myself on the lookout for anything and

sure in that way yeah um i think i feel the same way i mean i like maybe i'd be like hey start therapy sooner um listen listen to carla shout out carla um but really i i do tend to agree that i think it's it's through finding it all out on my own that like we're here now having this conversation which i'm grateful for you know so i think it was all necessary and also if we're adhering to like time travel laws if i said anything to myself in the past the ripple effect right the butterfly effect we would just but disregarding that what would you do matt what's your what what do you what would you want to tell yourself is there anything that comes to mind for you yeah i mean i mean i think i've ended up finding a lot of the things but you know when

we started the show i had zero sort of social consciousness you know and and so i think like nudging myself maybe in that direction a little earlier but i ended up finding it you know and And I think also just like I do think that I had out of some like deep, you know, insecurity, some of the fame kind of influencing me in ways that, you know, I just it didn't it didn't feel like sort of I was as in touch with my sensitivity and sort of vulnerability as I could have been. you know honestly when i first moved to la i feel like i ended up in some sort of friend groups where i felt like i was kind of losing myself for a bit and ended up you know kind of shifting out of that but you know just kind of reminding myself too that like fame is not going to give you the self-love that you desire and then also i think just like i mean i don't know if i would tell myself this because it'd probably be fucking make me anxious as fuck but be like you're gonna go

through some harder shit than you ever would imagine you could possibly go through but you're going to adapt and you're going to find your center and your grounding and and you're gonna be okay you know um so especially in these easier earlier moments you know you don't have to worry or try quite as hard um yeah that i think is a really valuable thing you you can say with the benefit of hindsight and time travel um in a definitive way but i think that is you can say something that i try to say to myself when i go it's going to be okay yeah do you know what i mean it's like if if nothing else if you give yourself that if you have that belief or have that kind of perspective or that zoom and and then fingers fingers crossed it comes off that way you know

what i say i say my i've adopted a mantra that we that i stole from our leading lady viola davis where every time she would walk into that she'd say i'm in control and i say that now in my life all the time when i do actually oh yeah like all of the time i i just to sort of drop into myself i'm like i'm in control nice that's i find that really interesting because my first thought and this is again i'm receiving that for me is like do we want to be in control um that's fair it depends on the come from yeah yeah but exactly it depends where you're coming from and and also actually what it made me think when i when i kind of sat with that for a moment as i just went i've been reading some t.s elliott over the last couple of years the the four

quartets right and there's a line is this is the one way and the other is the same and there's something about that that i hear you saying i'm in control can offer you or can offer what my first instinct was to us and it's like release control do you know what i mean yeah yeah because ultimately it's about what is it about i suppose in some sense availability if you feel enough if you feel control you can be available to the situation exactly yeah right so it so it sort of really doesn't matter which if you're going up or down right right it's like the mark rylance quote about remembering the lines enough to forget them yeah yes exactly yeah or knowing them enough to forget them yeah yeah yeah yeah that's good that's good yeah i think that i think

that this might be a good place to wrap up um because we have been we've been taking so much of your time um my time is we want to be freely given to you guys well if now then you heard it here folks lp will be back on the podcast in the future um but we might not we might not be able to get you back for quite a while because you have a big exciting i mean this who knows when this will air but you get into rehearsal i do with your pals uh royal shakespeare company right exactly my my my gang yeah i'm doing i'm doing henry v at the rsc in the royal shakespeare theater just the big one yeah the big theater which is really yeah which is really exciting i mean it's funny because you guys always that was always the joke like arthur just wants to be

it wants to be back in the uk doing shakespeare at that actually it's pretty much what what's happened since i've yeah since i've been left out to get away or since i was from how to get away with murder for my toxic behavior as you put it there was no behavior just to clarify that was um but that's massively exciting because i mean truly henry v is one of my favorite plays and it's actually the first play i ever saw i saw my dad playing the king of france oh wow rylance playing henry v what oh wow at the opening of the globe wow 97 i think it was wow like eight years old 1897 wow yeah enough time um yeah william shakespeare was there yeah exactly he had a lot of good stuff

to say about that production but yeah it's it's it feels like uh i've had an amazing kind of time working with the rsc not first and foremost because of tamara harvey who is directing who is the co-artistic director of the rsc so i did pericles last year 24 and then now henry the fifth and it to what honestly working with her is is there's just an atmosphere in her of just real discovery and playing things are up for grabs and to do that with you know a play think you love is so exciting i mean it's yeah so so so that's me for the kind of when you guys when you guys open we open i don't actually know the answer to that question i know when rehearsals start and that is what that's a good actor that's what i need to know he's like i can't

i can't be concerned with opening i'm concerned with rehearsal exactly it is discovering the play before we present it um it's sort of around march we we run sort of mid-march to the 26th i mean come and see some shakespeare having seen you having seen you do shakespeare i think everyone should see you do shakespeare you know that is absurdly kind it's just fun it's just that thing when you get to do something that you love doing that's very gratifying in and of itself yeah yeah and the rsc being what it is i trust that some people will come but i think so but it's people there but it's something that yeah i don't know i'm weird about like plugging stuff i'm always like yeah i don't if people don't want to come that's fine yeah you know and it's like oh you

know speak about it and i'm like i'm just glad to be doing it to be honest it's yeah you know as long as there's a couple of people there that's that's enough to tell a story but yes here am i i'm trying to i'm trying to walk back and do it yeah it's so good i feel yeah yeah i feel all wrong i'm like if you don't want it's fine right right right i want to take it personally that's if you hate it it's okay yeah yeah pick a line in front yeah yeah it won't cross it yeah the headline is alfred enoch has changed he plugged his his play that's right i'm pretty good gratuitous has america rubbed off on him yeah oh my god i'm sorry i have rambled in the way that you obviously both knew that i would

yeah no this was this is exactly what we wanted that's great well i hope it was in some way useful you know it was very useful yeah yeah it's the best man i mean it has i mean matt and i've talked about it but it's just been like the the greatest joy of this has just been revisiting all of these relationships because it was such a crazy time in our lives and we became a family and i remember being upset when you left the show and so and i think yeah i think there was a part of us too as a cast that was grieving a little bit just because you were moving back across the pond and you were going to be a little bit less you know available in our lives and but that's nature of what we do you know just uh troubadours you know just little just artists going from town

to town if we're lucky and that's right and uh i know strike the drum and see if anyone wants a couple words exactly and i just yeah i feel very grateful i guess that like the that you know all of these crazy variables had to like fall into perfect alignment for the three of us to find ourselves you know in philly yeah yes so true so true and you know that's kind of the thing about the the question you asked before matt about advice to the younger self and i'm like i'm very grateful to be here where i'm now you know i mean i'm happy to leave it as it was but but if if you can sort of instill that thing that you said that i think is very valuable like it's going to be okay you know there are going to be huge positives and how i feel kind

of looking back at it yeah that's the thing i was saddest about that i wasn't around with you guys that i wasn't yeah totally there because it was you know and i still feel yeah that's the thing i miss like yeah yeah like we had a context and we could spend that kind of time together you realize how precious it is to be able to spend that much time with people you love yeah yeah it's a treasure it's such a joy joy to know you and and so grateful for the context of all that and um we'll never see you again but um uh no it's it's been such a treat um to it's funny it's it's been a while we've we've all had our individual time together you know jack and i and you and i and you and jack and to get

to even just be the three of us feels kind of i don't know reminds me a little bit of the old days which i really love so um really appreciative of you uh coming on today and yeah i'm excited for everyone to hear it and thank you appreciate you love you thank you love you love you bud it's been a treat thank you guys for having me and we'll see you all next week goodbye murderers bye love you love you oh alfred what a joy alfred alfred what a joyful man the human embodiment of dimples 90 dimples 10 gentlemen that's right that was a really awesome conversation we did all the things we had the guffaws we had these uh the introspection yeah i'm glad that you took it there at toward the end thank you i thought that

um yeah i think i knew that he would be willing to have that conversation but i'm glad that you you know because it's so easy for the three of us just pal around too and just joke and but i think that the whole point of doing this podcast right is also to like have a little bit that vulnerability yeah and a peek behind the curtain the vulnerability you know maybe these guys aren't just guys on a magazine cover maybe maybe they're also struggling that's right finding their way yeah so yeah no i appreciate you doing that yeah yeah um no vulnerability here um i also realized that that question about what would you tell your past self i think it's time for me to abandon that question i think i can find a different way of accessing the vulnerability

the core of people's hearts you know slip and sliding through their aortas why why do you want to abandon i feel like this is this i don't we've done a couple interviews now and i think every time people like nothing i wouldn't tell them anything different i would spoil it i wouldn't want to spoil it for them so now i'm just like okay uh okay give me a little break here you know what i'm trying to ask um but i think i can uh i believe in you as a uh facilitator good conversation, vulnerability, and, and as a new, but expanding podcast host that you can find a new way. But yeah, it is. I do think his answer was genuine though. Oh yeah, no, it was definitely for, for sure. He really considered it, even though it was a bad question. But then he put

the question back on me, which I appreciated because clearly I'm the one that asked the question. I would, it's a question I want to answer. I'd be a fucking asshole if I was just like nothing i've been i don't want to do nothing different but i've been asking everyone else yeah exactly so i don't give a shit about the butterfly effect i am a butterfly well i mean i think that yeah i think that even like it is a good question because like i got yeah i think even my answer there you know the butterfly effect response was a little defensive to the vulnerability which you know i think we will get further and further into this but like i did struggle a lot i think with fame and and the pressure of the show and just like all of these like new variables in my life

and um i realized too in my answer i was like uh i would have listened to carla sooner and gone to therapy which makes it seem like i was talking about carla souza but i'm actually talking about my ex-girlfriend right yeah yeah i thought you're talking about carla souza okay yeah i saw your face and i was like i was like oh matt thinks that carla souza who plays laurel told me to go therapy which is not the case my my ex-girlfriend my ex-girlfriend um and we're still i'm going to text her about this and and tell her that she made an appearance on the on the pod she'll be our guest next week yeah we should be our guest and talk about what she wishes you would have done differently exactly that's exactly it yeah yeah but no no i i think it is a good question

because it yeah i don't know it's i mean it it works for what we're doing yeah right because like we are literally going back in time like we are time traveling in watching the show and so i think there is something interesting um in like considering what you would maybe put forth to your younger self i appreciate that i think there's a tweak perhaps because i think everyone basically is like i wouldn't tell them anything and then they and then they do find their way into talking a little bit about like the difference of like where they were at but that feels like the very you know it's like the way that we as actors you know we're trained to answer like press questions which is like just answer the question that you want to answer basically whatever they're

asking right that's right so i feel like you can just get one that gets us there a little closer we are our friends have too much media training to get them to answer exactly earnestly right what were your darkest moments um i actually that i'm glad you brought that up because i do think our friends have very good media training but something i was thinking about is as we get closer to the show coming out once we start talking about like how to get away with murder airing in 2014 i'm really curious to go back and read interviews specifically mine and see if i start off with really bad media training and get any better because i remember at the time like one of the questions from the reddit community was like you guys must have been doing doing a

bunch of press at this time like how did that feel and i remember being real lost at sea but i feel like you and elfie were always like quite comfortable yeah i feel like i it's always fun when we got to do them together too it feels a little bit like what this podcast is i felt much safer yeah i felt much safer with you and lg yeah i just feel like i don't know turning on charm and improvisation for a cause i mean that's kind of what i'm doing with the podcast you know i'm like trying to be interesting um and you know you're entertaining always interesting i appreciate that um it's a lie but i'm just kidding but i do i appreciate that but it's i mean it does it brings out a side you know i mean i'm a performer and i enjoy that and i mean even when i presented

it this thing recently as i was on stage and there was like a beat and there was like five seconds of me walking from on the stage to the lectern and i was like well i could definitely throw some ass right here um and i did you know um and i was like oh yeah it feels good yeah i want to see that is there video there must be yeah i can text you the short clip of it yeah perfect yeah do people like it people did like it yeah yeah well people always like when you shake your butt people do like that yeah we got some hooting and hollering i kind of wish i went a little further honestly but sure i'm sure they'll have you back yeah you know next year yeah yeah yeah wow yeah well it's been great see you never um yeah it's been great i think that elfie will be back on the show

yeah i feel like we i feel like we can convince him to come back oh definitely i liked it yeah i really enjoyed that moment when he was like he's like yeah this is great and you're like great so you'll come back then you promised us you're on the air promising that's right um he'll never listen to this which is cool like we can say anything we want about him right now which is really nice it did make me think about i was thinking about like how to um push like the the clips from these episodes to promote it and do you remember him i i wanted to work this in somehow but like it didn't work but like do you remember when we there was this bar like kind of bar kind of club but really just a bar close to where sunset gower where we shot called uh good time

at davey wayne's yeah and we would go like you know for a drink every now and then like on a friday night yeah if we got off early it's fun there's some dancing there and stuff i mean it's still there it's a cool place in la if you're visiting yeah there's fun dancing but it's like you you enter through like um what like an old refrigerator door right yes yeah that's right i think and and then you like walk down and then it's like a 1970s living room yeah and then they used to have like roller skaters that would skate outside on top of this like old uh like airstream trailer yeah that was a bar like a backyard area yeah totally yeah and it was a it was a fun little place and to go have a chat and a little a little drink and i remember it must have been the first

season of the show i think where and i and i i gotta look this up but like you know we would walk there after filming and alfred elfie was wearing flip-flops and i think maybe shorts but he was definitely wearing flip-flops and like you know elfie's like brazilian yeah that's like that's like the uniform right you know like that's a very normal thing to be rocking and he looked like a stud he always looks like a stud and i think he probably had on like you know one of his colorful outfits and i remember we got to the place and they wouldn't let him in oh wow and he had just he had just been named one of people magazines like you know how they do like sexiest man alive every year and then they they like name someone i guess he was on the list of

like future sexiest men alive like like you know it's like it was like him and like i don't know dylan o'brien you know a couple other like young guys yeah in hollywood and i remember talking to doorman i was like you're making a huge mistake like this is this is one of the sexiest men alive and of course alfred i mean like just as we heard on the podcast right now it's like he was just he was just like well i guess yeah no like i'll run back to the the studio lot and like i'll change like i was really trying to embarrass him being like no no no no this is like a big star like this is you know this is tv's alfred enoch that's really funny he like jogged back you know and then came back in trainers and pants i think so okay yeah i think

he and being alfred he like told us to go in and like not wait for him but i i loved that moment because it like perfectly like if it had been me like if i had been nominated for people's sexist men alive i would have like worn a a sign that's right sure like a like a laminated um yeah cut out of the magazine hanging around yeah a giant sandwich board yeah right right yeah my first time actually getting a ticket was with alfie in the car um following his advice yes he made you break the law right he forced me to break the law um statue of limitations should i stop for this siren oh no it's getting loud no it's i mean it's fitting it is you're telling he's talking about breaking the law and the police are that's true no that's definitely

not a police siren though no that's a fire truck yeah yeah yeah um so he forced me to become an outlaw um and uh no basically i was i was driving him home from work but he lived very close to work as we talked about walking and just to you know clarify you just learned how to drive i just learned how to drive yeah yeah and and um i'm not going to say the type of car that i had because i don't give free branding uh it was a cool car though it was a cool car it was a muscle car yeah it was a muscle car i got it because i thought it looked like the batmobile that's right it wasn't like you know it wasn't a super expensive car and i got like the v6 version and everyone would always be like oh what kind of engine you got i was just like i just like how it

looks you know they'd be so disappointed by it yeah people are like no you have like that that car can open up right and you're like yeah yeah sure yeah i'm like but i mean the door is open yeah exactly oh my god this reminds me of a tangential thing of like when i pulled up next to a guy in the car at a light one time and he looked over at me and he had this like the most like patriarchal like look on his face and he's like revving his engine he was like hey yeah he's like he's like what kind of what kind of engine you got in there i was like uh just v6 he's like what v6 he was so upset and confused yeah and then he pulled out yeah but anyway i was driving alfie um and so you might have had a v8 engine what's that i don't know you might have even had a v8

me maybe no no it was a v6 that was v6 yeah yeah i know for sure i was about to i was about to fact check yeah yeah no no no all right yeah that would have been actually probably reckless as a new driver you know what i mean like sure and i'm not always great at multitasking i can get overwhelmed so you know like but basically i was driving home and then there was one of these long like turn lanes you know and but it's like it's like really long it's like probably like 100 feet or something like that but it was super late at night there was like no other cars around so i thought and i was like kind of halfway pulled up next to the thing and i realized i had to supposed to turn left and i was like oh should i should i get in should i go into the lane so basically be crossing

that line where you turn left and to get into that lane and i was like what what do i do alfie's like yeah just do it so i did it and then as i made the turn here the cop car um behind us and um i remember i feel like i could remember alfie uh holding back um wanting to be like this doesn't make any sense you know uh yeah disagreeing with the american police officer yeah yeah yeah did he offer to pay the ticket i don't think so um but i think that was yeah it was it was my it was my mistake it's also that's kind of crazy given like the wild things people do on the road in los angeles yeah like people are doing crazy crazy things yeah and that's that's like a pretty small traffic and yeah truly no one i mean the cop must have been like you know at the other side of

the intersection or whatever i mean it was probably the end of the month they're probably just trying to fill quotas yeah for sure for sure um sure yeah we actually we didn't pay the ticket actually i reversed into the cop car and then i drove off um yeah yeah i remember talking to a friend that was on a i won't say who but that was on a a popular show that was like very well liked by or watched by law enforcement and the amount of tickets he got out of yeah just because you know i believe which not great yeah i found that our show was very well liked by tsa agents which was interesting yeah and like you know flight attendants too i felt like always like were big fans which was great yeah yeah and people who do murder people who do murder yeah yeah

they're like yeah they're like hey i just killed someone i really like your show yeah yeah i do really like that i did appreciate that reflection by alfred by alfred jesus we gotta stop saying that why did we start it's so funny though like we don't call him alfred no but to me it does feel ironic every time we say it i know but it doesn't come across it it doesn't work i don't know i don't know why we're doing it's ironic but i really appreciated his reflection though that like that he is now like thinking more so about how his his stubbornness yeah i mean i think his openness to like interacting with the world yeah but his stubbornness and how it affects other people yeah in how he interfaces with his recognizability yeah um because it really did

bob it bothered me so much like he and i had to do this like international press tour with abc where we where we went to like monaco uh london uh madrid but yeah that's that's where i really had a hard time with it where we were like literally in spain like trying to like eat tapas you know between like full day interviews and yeah yeah yeah and and he just I mean which I think is good but like you know he just like talk and for those that don't know like Elfie speaks fluent Spanish and French and whatever some Italian and Portuguese um but he would you know he would just like chat with people for like you know yeah it's like you said without any time time constraints Elfie would just like talk forever which is nice but it would frustrate

me because i'd be like you know that this upsets me like you must be at this point sure sure you know i'm anxious right um but i appreciate that he's thinking differently about that yeah outside of himself which is which is characteristic of him where he's like how is this affecting others like not you know yeah how it's how it's affecting him yeah yeah he's a good man charlie brown he's a good man charlie brown um yeah so he will be back on And if you're, you know, in foggy London town, you know, this is going to be airing the first week of March. So presumably Alfie might be opening his show with the Royal Shakespeare Company and you

should, you should go see it. Yeah, you definitely should. I'm really bummed I can't go. Yeah. But, um, he'll be great because he always is and he'll do more than just stand there. He'll probably say a bunch of things to an iambic pentameter, which is exciting. yeah yeah he's doing his uh he's spreading his wings that's not really true but he loves shakespeare he really does going back to his roots yeah i think is more yeah yeah he's more the yeah

yeah yeah i mean he's he's been in his roots he's been he's been shakespearing a lot i feel like since the show ended yeah but yeah yeah i've always said i don't know if i said this podcast but uh that he would be very happy to just do shakespeare for the rest of his life i think too i mean i'm sure i know he loves doing other things to film and tv but um i think he could be quite satisfied with that yeah i think that's right yeah a craftsman a craftsman all right well this was great um come back next week where we talk about episode four of how to get away with murder i'm gonna talk about episode four let's get to scooping um that's all i got bud what about you no i have nothing else i'm trying else i'm dry that's it we're both dry and don't like and

subscribe tell a friend that's right and we'll see you next week listen to this cool elefante music love you see you then that's it for today's show thanks for joining us and see you next week for a new episode they drop every thursday and don't be late because the professor doesn't like to wait. How We Got Away With Murder is an original production by Podcast Nation. Produced by James Brown and Alicia Panier. Audio production by Miles Carter. Original music by Elefante. Thanks for watching!