How We Got Away with Murder - Karla Souza on Laurel, Life, and What Comes Next

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Karla Souza joins Matt and Jack fresh off Jack's chance encounter with Viola Davis on the streets of New York; a good omen if there ever was one. Karla catches them up on everything she's been up to since HTGAWM: Home Economics, her new Amazon show 56 Days, a newly released comic book, and her ongoing advocacy work. But first: the audition story. She originally read for Michaela, got redirected to Laurel, had never heard the word "booked" used that way, and thought Shonda Rhimes was Busta Rhymes. The rest is history. On the podcast, Karla opens up about constantly auditioning out of the back of her car, leaving behind a successful career in Mexico to take a risk on the American market, and how her acting career has led to becoming a producer and hopeful future director. She gets into her background as a trained gymnast, her TED Talk on muscle tears and growth, the adrenaline addiction that links athletics to acting, and how she gravitates toward projects that, often unknowingly. reflect her own unhealed wounds. They also getinto how faith and listening shape her approach to acting, what Death of a Salesman rehearsals have dredged up for Jack (therapist search officially underway), and Matt's quiet evolution from self-described atheist on the HTGAWM set to something more spiritual now. We want to hear from you! Send us your show and episode questions with the chance to be read on the air during an episode: [e-mail] Matt & JackIG @jackfalaheeTIKTOK @jackfalahee X @RestingPlatypus REDDIT u/ItsMeJackFalaheeIG @mattmcgorry TIKTOK @matt.mcgorry X @MattMcGorry Facebook: @ActorMattMcGorryThank you to our sponsors:Hero Bread: This year, hit your goals without giving up your favorite bready dishes. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code JACKANDMATT at checkout.Omaha Steaks: Go to OmahaSteaks.com and use promo code JACKANDMATT at checkout for $35 off. Minimum purchase mayapply.This podcast is brought to you by Podcast Nation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everyone. My name is Matt McClory, and I played the character Asher Millstone on How to Get Away with Murder. And I'm Jack Falahee, and I played Connor Walsh on that very same TV show. And this is the How We Got Away with Murder podcast. Hey, Jack. Welcome back to the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast that we do. Yes, welcome back. How are you doing?

How are you? uh i said for i asked first you did ask first i'm well i'm well i'm i'm especially well with the knowledge of what we have coming in store today who we have coming in store um i'm not going to get too into that yet but i'll just say that i'm well and excited because of that yeah absolute heater of a guest yeah triple heater that's a sports thing triple heater also i'm feeling universally like cosmically we are having some good uh podcast energy because i ran into our queen viola davis on the streets of new york isn't that crazy that is so wild like real new york magic where i was we you know we have these like dinner breaks before we do the

show every night right and i was i walk central park sometimes just doxing myself you guys can find me in central park from the hours of four to six don't do it jack don't do it uh it's pretty big i don't think people are gonna find me but i just go to the entrance of the theater but um way more sense to just wait by the stage door right which people are already doing um i think they think i'm chris abbott though so i've just been signing autographs as chris abbott have you yeah that's amazing but yeah no i was walking and i saw across the street viola and i like almost sprint i did sprint like kind of through traffic and almost almost perished her security guards almost uh destroyed your life yeah exactly it was it was her and her uh jameika

hairstylist yeah was on murder as well and so i ended up just shopping with them for like two hours oh no way oh my god yeah she was like come on we're running errands and i was like hell yes so hilarious i love that and she's promoting her book she is promoting her new book judge stone by her and James Patterson. That's right. New York Times bestseller. The banger. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, no surprise there, but I mean, she is a storyteller. Yeah. Hopefully we can get her on the pod. But we are graced today by one of the other incredible women of How to Get Away With Murder.

We are very excited to have our friend with us today. So excited. Listeners will obviously know from How to Get Away With Murder. More recently, you might have seen her on Home Economics. She's got a new show on Amazon,

56 Days, which is out now and I'm very excited about. She also starred in the two highest grossing Mexican films of all time. Nosotros Los Nobles and No Se Aceptan Devoluciones. She produced and starred in her Emmy winning film Dive. I mean, she's constantly, constantly self-generating projects, you know, film, TV. She even has a comic book coming out that I want to hear about. And then on top of all that, she's doing advocacy work for you and women and somehow makes time to also be an incredible mother and wife and daughter and sister and friend. It is Carla Souza. Yay, Carla!

oh my gosh how are you this intro just made me so happy you guys this is my home you guys are my home for six years your voice even your voice is just like oh yeah it's it's really it's so good to see you it does feel like the best part of this is just us getting to talk to everyone again and like share that that yeah fuzzy warm space again you know yeah it really is beautiful i would have also ran after viola on the stage so yeah yeah she's so funny man i've been spending a lot of time on the subreddit the how to get with murder reddit community in promoting this but also in talking to them and like fielding questions that we then will ask you some questions that we have gotten from the reddit community and it's of course people like talk about vile with such

reverence you know right but i have to like remind people i'm like no no no like vile is like one of the most down-to-earth and funniest people that i know and so of course i went on like a two hour shopping you know like to duane reed you know not like fancy glitzy shopping we were like running errands i'll never forget i was just with somebody who actually confirmed that this is wasn't personal to us you know how she took a snooze while we were acting in front of her that time oh my god i totally forgot about that yes i do how could you forget matt how could you forget i my memory jack and my memory are both uh somewhat addled so um as you'll learn the way carla please please give some a little bit of context to our listeners because i remember this

very clearly i do remember now it's but please yes very clearly we very rarely got acting moments in front of viola so this was a big one she got to sit in a chair and we would you know i think asia is the one that started like mikaela and we would all have our moments of like you've done this and you're doing this it's like you know therapy is like you're you're uh what is it the gestalt you know you're telling your mom how she hurt you or whatever it is right it's that kind of moment and she did wait you know they filmed her face first she's sitting in a chair and then they turned the camera to do us and we all started doing like our what we thought was like our best acting to Viola because yeah who cares about the millions of people watching it's Viola Davis

sitting in front of you right that's right and I remember at some point we started noticing that she was just kind of half half there and then gone and we were like actually this is the best thing because we were so nervous we're like let's just not wake her up let's shoot this like it is yeah and then you know we'll be good so whenever anybody asked me how is it shooting with viola that is the image that i would get in my head it's so funny to clarify for listeners it's because she was so tired from working so hard i mean it's like how many hours were we in there she had so many lines to learn i think it was also it was crazy the first season when they had her still like driving herself to work you know when she was doing like literally 14 hours in front of

camera every day and i was so glad that you know whenever shonda heard about that was like no we're gonna get her a car yeah i also feel like later seasons we were like you don't actually have to be there necessarily for all of it right it's very common in tv shows for for our audience who doesn't know for an actor who's working like so many hours that they're not necessarily always there when the when the shot's not on them and i think i remember being like please like it's okay please go sleep like yeah we need you tomorrow you know and that's the thing she wouldn't leave yeah she's very committed to us and yeah i remember she could have there's actors because i've been on other movies and i doubt he would care but like jamie foxx is like i'm out you know

and i'm like you go you go and you beat jamie foxx and i'll act with your double right that's right that's what i learned later is like i was like viola would stay even in those courtroom scenes when they were like not necessary for her to stay and we'd be like please go and she was it was like a part of her what do you call it like just what her belief system acting you know commitment yeah for sure yeah i mean i think it i think it really is her like coming from theater too and just like i'm i'm experiencing that a little bit right now rehearsing this show where it's just like you're that you're at the theater all day no matter what if you're not on stage you're helping someone run lines you're helping someone with the scene and i think i see a lot of that work ethic in you

Carla yeah I was gonna say speaking of committed actresses yeah committed actresses we could talk about Viola all day but I want to talk about you girl and I you know something that Matt and I did when we started this and then you know we've had Katie on and Elfie and Charlie and we would love as a jumping point just to hear a little bit about like where you were in your life personally and professionally when How to Get With Murder came to you and what that you know what that audition process was like, you know, did you, did you only audition for Laurel? Were there other characters? Just sprinkle a little bit of that Parmesan on the pasta, please. So I was, I was in some McDonald's, uh, restaurant restroom changing from prostitute number three to,

um, I can't remember what sort of actor, you know, audition I had that day. I had four different auditions and pilot season and changing in the back of my car like that whole stereotypical of like actors going from one to the next but this is like was such a rude awakening from going from mexico city highest grossing you know films having restaurant meals being paid for me like paid for my entire family just because i was in a film that people appreciated they're like we getting freebies, free, you guys know, like free travel, free clothes, free anything and no auditioning for jobs. And then suddenly I love, uh, you know, pain. So I decided to, but all jokes aside, like, you know, just kind of challenge myself and go to Hollywood and try it

out there. And I was living with my mom in Santa Monica and I did not get a call back for, I, i'm not joking like 40 auditions not one callback and i was like all right so this is not gonna really yeah yeah work out i'm gonna go back to mexico um and then it was that one audition audition with um with linda laurie laurie lowey yeah yeah um and i remember thinking like this woman is on her computer i'm auditioning here she's just clicking away she doesn't even care I was, I was livid. I was like, that's it. And what she then told me is that she was looking at the films that I'd been doing in Spanish and she was very confused. She's like, who is, why is she, she had no accent. Where's this person from? Saw all these Spanish language films. She

just was confused. But I thought like, will not be. Right. She was typing, Carla Souza is an amazing actress we need to gather for the role yet so i think i didn't even leave uh i didn't even leave and she said can you just learn these other lines and you know panic i'm like i don't have time to like i'm not an ease i don't like learn lines easily and i can't do that as easily as some people you know sight read yeah um i'm just not that good at it so i just kind of panicked with hearing i had to try some completely different character obviously it's a great it's great news but i was panicking and they're like i i auditioned for michaela first and then they wanted me to read for laurel and then i did that and then i was like well that was bad

but then they had me come back with pete in the room like you know kind of more of a producer session and i am pretty sure betsy i'm not really 100 sure if betsy was there um do you guys remember uh the room anyway there was a couch I don't know if you guys auditioned there but there was like a nice really comfy couch and I did I auditioned for Michaela and Laurel Laurel wasn't very I think it was kind of like wasn't delineated wasn't very specific it were her name was going to be Laurel Wilding and they didn't really have an idea I think Michaela was a lot clearer as to who michaela was laurel was kind of just there but we didn't know she was going to be the daughter of some mafioso dude and like all these things that then happened right like it just then

developed into that we'll be right back and we are back i'm sorry to interrupt but i almost remember like in the pilot maybe them like positioning laurel as like more of like a hippie even yes right like wasn't there like kind of like she was kind of like a little bit more anyway keep going but i want to hear about that is it love story the film they were basing it on love story what's that film that very famous film i think it's robert redford um and the love means never needing to say you're sorry which i disagree fully with that statement yeah toxicity disagree fully with that it's a different time when that film was made right right they they yeah they were trying something like flower power kind of vibe of

somebody who was hippie and then it was like this reveal of like oh but she's the richest one out of like all of them she's loaded she just dislikes her father so that was a cool little you know turn but basically i after that session i was then i got to test at the disney lot and i was just i could have thrown up i was so nervous um because i was told that okay you guys are gonna like this is so wrong okay but i i was like buster rhymes like why is buster rhymes gonna be in this because they kept saying shonda oh my god oh my god guys i've never said this out loud this is also funny because like you it's not like you have like a language barrier or anything like you grew up in colorado like what do you mean it was like okay it was like i you know i was like

buster rhymes i'm like because okay grant you for you guys i think at that time like shauna rhymes was already like yes you know for me it's as if you guys i i would tell you a producer and you know in mexico or something like you guys would have no clue who this person is and for me sometimes not looking up people that are involved in a project is better because i don't want to be even more terrified right so i was this project was one of the ones that i was like la la la don't want to see don't want to do don't want to look and so this whole buster rhymes thing is in my head of like buster rhymes is gonna be like all right cool and so then and so then we went and then what's the director's name the australian guy do you guys remember the pilot michael offer

yeah michael offer was there luckily buster rhymes was not there um and that actually shonda also decided to not go to not make us nervous thank the lord it was this like black box kind of theater and i had this little sweater and i changed from being and i did i tested for both Michaela and Laurel and for Laurel I did like yeah I did like a half do and then for um Michaela I think I had like a little more like a sweater kind of vibe for Laurel and then the other one was like a suited thing and and so yeah that was that was it and then they uh messaged me I was on my way in Santa Monica on my way to some hamburger joint place uh with a friend and they like mess they they called me and they said you know when they call it like the agent the manager like

everybody calls you and so i was just like yeah you know hello good news and well this it was the first time that ever happened in my career so everybody calling me is the first time right so i was like so it could be good or bad news exactly it could be good or bad news and so i was like yes and she's like you and then again she said booked and i'd never heard that term i was like what what you booked Laurel I was like booked what is it what you booked right I was like tell me you've got the job you've got the part you've got you know so I'm like flipping out with like terminology but that was like yeah I think I and then and then if we want to talk about comps I don't know what you guys what your first imagine coming from Mexico the comp is

probably $30 versus $1 like us, you would get $30 versus what I was getting for a job in Mexico was $1. So I thought I was like, I thought I was Busta Rhymes. I thought I was going to be like, yeah, you thought they told you the wrong number. My agent was like, never repeat that ever again, that you made $1 because that's not going to help me in anything. And I was like, okay, yes, yes ma'am right you know yeah right she's like because i'm trying to get it she said i'm trying to get a comp of what you you you know what you've gotten oh right so it took me a moment to remember what compliment but yes right right right like to for the audience your quote or sorry your quote i'm trying to get your quote yeah just basically like what you've been paid previously so that

there's like sort of like precedence for what you'll be paid for this other project right which is often how it does like in the u.s like if you had you know doing many pilots oftentimes means your your quote goes up so that you know you're each subsequent maybe not each subsequent one but as your career goes on you're supposed to be getting paid more money theoretically yeah and there are some actors especially back when more television was traditionally made and there were many many pilots from every network each season there are some actors that would they'd be in they'd be in a pilot that never was never made produced like a dozen like a dozen they do you know 10 12 pilots and so they'd be getting an outrageous quote having never actually

been on television i think for the first time on screen oh yeah george clooney is an example of that i think he was in many many many pilots before er hit i think oh wow wow that makes sense but anyway so that makes sense that coming from like mexico in a spanish-speaking market where there is less money being circulated for talent that coming to the States that wouldn't hold up as much despite, I mean, like for context, I didn't, I mean, this is me being American, but I would like to talk about the globalization of, of the industry. Cause Elfie said this too, where like, you did kind of have to be in LA back then. Like nowadays, nowadays it's, it's global, right? And like, you can kind of be anywhere. And like, if you're, if you're in the

highest grossing film of the year in Latin America, you're probably going to get an audition for an ABC pilot. But that wasn't really the case. That was not back when you and can you talk a little bit about that? And like, what what did motivate you to sort of try and make that transition into into Hollywood? Yeah, I genuinely think it like you said, it was not a common thing right now, casting directors do throw a very wide net. And I think that's, that's a testament and it's to what the possibilities are, are endless with, they can get the most specific right person for the part. And it's not just about actors living in LA. So I think that gives so much horizontal kind of anyway, it's, it's, it's a great way access for a lot of, a lot of people that would

have never been able to. Even for me, producing is also great. You know, you can really, really get the best person or at least, you know, what you want for the part. So for me, it was a little bit more about exploring, having grown up in these different cultures, I still have the desire to, you know, try it out in France, for example, because I have a whole personality that I haven't explored in acting. That is my, I grew up and I went to high school in France. And so for me, it was like, oh, the projects I'm getting in Mexico, their perspective of me is very specific and very limiting in a way. And I would just be getting a certain type of roles. And I realized, oh, maybe if I go to the Anglo market, I'm able to kind of explore all these other things that

i'm not getting a a chance to explore in mexico so it was it was to do with that as well as you know um knowing that yeah just the the epicenter of it all was in hollywood and just trying it trying it out yeah yeah you did you did it carla yeah you literally you literally i mean you literally did it like yeah yeah that is crazy i still got one more that i haven't france is still out there i'm like yeah i'll get you one day no it's cool though that too that i think that you and alfie had that similar experience because like even looking at his work now it's like you know he is very motivated to go to brazil and like make work there you know because of his brazilian identity and um i think that you know having grown up in the states like i didn't

i didn't even like really think i mean very american of me but i didn't really think about the industries outside of the entertainment industries outside of Hollywood. And I remember vividly one day we were shooting downtown. And the catering guys, there were like a couple Latino catering guys, and they freaked out when you walked up and I was like, Oh, Carla's like super fucking famous. And she's like, she doesn't act like it. And then I got like, kind of mad about that, where I was like, you should be acting a little bit more famous, I think. But you're that's just not who you are i loved you how like you were such a i remember so many times where i wouldn't remember like a person or a word or you guys were talking about a character in tv or

something and i would not know who this person was and you always were the best to remind everybody like carla speaks three languages you guys carla you know you were like that you're the voice in my head now that i give my like nobody does that for me anymore and i'm i still have a mini job telling like telling myself like it's okay like you know other things you know yeah um that that reminds me a little bit of my my ex carla quevedo who you know she she would oh if we ever got into any sort of disagreement she'd be like i am so much smarter than you in spanish i don't love that so i think i think you should put that in your back pocket if you're if you're ever getting sass from like i'm sure like a male producer or you know someone else you can be like

you know how many languages i can outsmart you in it's true though the sort of the like u.s centric nature of i mean so many things hollywood and just like uh everything in the world is is just so pervasive yeah i mean the fact that you were able to you've been able to thrive in in so many different places you know is really incredible and also just i i also can't imagine the the struggle and the like daily sort of microaggressions also of like people assuming that like you know the u.s market is like the the right way or the only right exactly right yeah i i can't imagine how often that that comes up it's incredible it's but it's also internalized like what i've realized is like it's coming like there's a line in home economics where i'm like

And the white is coming from inside the house where, you know, the inside the house, meaning, well, in home economics, it meant inside the house of like, I'm married to a white guy. And I realized that our family is so white. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I brought the I don't know if it was macaroni and cheese or something. And so I realized like I, you know, I've faced my culture and that moment really hit home for me because I was like, there's so much internalized, you know, I guess the word is like the whitewashing and all these things that I assume I'm one thing and people see me as another. And then also things like the bad bunny at the halftime show was so powerful for me to watch our culture, even though it's that's Puerto Rican, it's Latino in some way, be brought to the center stage in such a authentic and like no whitewashing. like it was so specific to us yeah and that that can also be commercial and cool and awesome was like also just i'm still living moments where i'm like yes or rosalia freaking bringing it with her oh my god yeah i mean with her opera and her you know la ord is one of the most i was obsessed with this dance company and she's like doing you know these choreographies with them and i'm just you know blown away by how how much it was internalized to you know this whole i'm not the right way i'm

not the way it's done i need to bring myself closer to you know let's say hollywood white whatever it is and it's getting away from that thought that has been a learning curve for me for sure yeah we'll be right back and we're back i feel like yeah so often on on i mean our time was like so formative together in terms of like just like political awakenings i know i talk about this for myself very much but all of us i feel like we're we were really actively i feel like engaged in like trying to like better understand the world and the place that we had in it and like how we wanted to show up and like like so many of you know i fondly remember so much of the time like between takes like you and i carla would have very deep in-depth conversations like unpacking

like various ideas and like trying to think through like how we wanted to show up on them and yeah i just those memories are really precious to me and i really i appreciate that yeah i agree i don't know if it was shonda choosing i don't know what went before the chicken or the egg because if you think about it the people that came out of the shonda land world some are also very politically or like they're just active in a way that i don't know if it's because our leader at the tip of the triangle i guess was and cares about certain things that it kind of trickled all the way down but i do think that um we were lucky to be in a world where that mattered versus other shows i'm sure that was not what was the the currency was something else right it wasn't

bettering yourself and like it was it was kind of self-centered and maybe different um different um approaches to to what our platforms could bring yeah that that seems like very important to i mean to all of you i agree to all of us but i see that in your work too and like i want to hear a little bit about that where you know you have this great ted talk that at the time it was i mean still might be the most watched TED talk in Spanish. And you talk a lot about like muscle tears leading to growth, right? And you're an athlete, like you were training to be an Olympic gymnast. So I've always had this theory that athletes make very good actors. You know, I think like the micro failures that happen in sports actually train you for like, you know, going on

a hundred auditions and failing on all 99 of them. You know, coaching is like being directed, but I want to hear about, like, do you think that being an athlete and training like that, do you think you brought an athlete's mindset to your craft? And then also the muscle tears, like, did you branch out into all of these different arenas, producing, writing, comic books, voiceover, you know, music, like out of necessity, like, because it wasn't there for you in the marketplace or because you just enjoy adversity. Like you, you enjoy being challenged. You, you know, that, that little gymnast in you like likes throwing herself on the mat. Like, you know what I mean? I want to hear a little bit about that. Yeah. That's so interesting because I

do think that there is this addiction to pain, right? Sure. There is the addiction to dopamine, adrenaline, and dangerous ways of getting that right. So when you're a gymnast, you know, it really is pretty there's a line there of healthy versus unhealthy right like training five to six hours a day for seven years and your falls are no longer like there's you know hospitalization if you fall in a certain way um yeah you know that kind of level you know you hear of what happens to athletes after and so i kind of found my my new bucket of uh adrenaline rejection pain through this industry right but i will say that the imaginative girl in me you know it was my my dad mostly that just always had me imagining stories when we were on the street we would be

like people watching we'd sit on a on a bench and he would just tell me okay that couple over there at the restaurant like what's their story you know and he'd be like she's obviously you know board look at how you know or look at the shoes that means that this is where she comes from or this is what he I mean he was just always kind of observing people and he would put music on and have me kind of interpret a dance and like what do you feel that this song is doing and so all of these things I was like oh where does this fit in acting like I don't have enough agency to explore all of these things like I have all these ideas in my head I have all these things that I want to do I really have to wait for the phone to ring to do them I'm like you know and so it

started by just being on films and having a lot more to say and then them liking what I had to say and then me realizing oh like I guess I'm doing a lot more than just acting if I'm having to do with like you know the score and if I'm having to do with casting and locations and the script and so then I was like well that isn't that considered producing so then I'd be like I think I want to producer credit and then after that one it was like what does it feel like to start a story from scratch and that's where I started looking at okay I care about sport and there's been no sport movies in Mexico what sport would I think is cinematic and I was on murder we were just it was I can't remember what year it was and I was so just immersed in dive where just thinking of

you know diving and how cinematic it was and this and that and then i found the story of the abusive coach to the team and that obviously then took itself on you know it was a completely different path that i went on but it just kind of uh started from me going could i do that from scratch and then i realized oh like i can and now i'm like could i direct and so i'm developing a script that I just finalized that hopefully in the next year or so I'm going to be directing and so it's like it's just it's kind of like can't could I will I like and I look I might direct and be like never again I might I might do that because it's so much responsibility that I might be like I don't want that responsibility right um but I still want to try I want to try because I'm

like you know i have so much more to say also for context for dive like it's not even that you're just finding that story and building it out as a producer and getting a lot of satisfaction from that you were also like before coming to set on murder you were like going to the high school to dive like that's right you you were like literally training yeah and putting yourself For three years, for years doing, doing high dive. Like, like, I mean, growing up as a competitive swimmer, I was like, you couldn't pay me to get like, to get on a platform and you just did it. So, I mean, it shows, I think like, I can deeply relate, I think to that, like don't trying to find dopamine and, and having done it myself in dangerous ways and understand like, you know what, maybe I should do a triathlon instead. you know and then like turning to you and being like hey carla want to do a triathlon with me and you're like of course yeah i'll do i'll learn everything about triathlons and then like making your husband do it with you and um so i see i see that and i it it does not surprise me then that

you'd be like oh directing's then the next logical step in this pursuit yeah it's it's that and like anything like from the you know the comic book or or the things that is just like new different it's just kind of trying to to grow well not kind of trying to grow i'm growing and it's like where does that fit you know where does where else is that going to bleed into it's not that i'm like forcing myself to grow it really feels like something that is just happening you know because of my age i turned 40 like i have three kids i have a lot more um to say and i don't just want of like, it just doesn't fulfill me anymore to just come in and, um, do something that I don't believe in. I just, I, you know, we know the cost, right? I remember us talking on set with the hours

and everything, what that means. It's so much time. It's so much of ourselves. And it's like the cost of doing things that don't feel aligned with who you are and what you want to say. It just feels higher. Whereas at first in our career, in my career, I'll speak for myself. I was like, I would do anything. It doesn't matter if I don't believe in the project or anything. I was like, yes. I was like, yes, I'll do it. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And it is interesting. I think being in an industry where like, you know, I would, I would often like get in arguments, I think with my parents sometimes when they were trying to tell me like, you know, sometimes everyone is, doesn't like their job or is disgruntled with their job. And I'm like, yeah, but like our job

is weird because there's like a part of us that is being given to it in a, if you're lucky, a very public facing way. So I, I can also relate to that too, where as you get older and yeah, know yourself more and hopefully aren't, you know, engaging with our industry out of scarcity that you're, you're choosing like to work out of abundance and, you know, an abundance of opportunity and creativity and you know passion yeah i love that for you i love that for you at this like stage in your journey yeah i so i i recently saw dive for the first time and and it was incredible and you were incredible and it's just it's such a amazing and cool thing to think about all the different pieces of you that like came together for that like the producer mind that you have which like

i still i always very much think of you like when i picture you on set in addition to being as committed and focused and present as you were when the camera was rolling also like being on the phone and like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah carla's literally always on like a conference call like she's talking she's always talking to someone important exactly yeah no like that's and and and that's what's needed for you to like to do that right and i think why also you will make a great director as well um yeah but to think about like the aspects that like your skill like in you know producing and and the business aspect and then also your the physicality of it right that like your background is a gymnast and the years of training that you did for dive and just like seeing you and being

like holy shit like watching you do the jumps and like looking like that's carla's face i can she's doing it that's actually her that's actually her and then combining the like advocacy piece you know and um also yeah the love for mexico and just like all of it you know like just in a beautiful package so it was really i felt uh so many as much as it was it's a you know hard subject um the i felt like a lot of uh pride and and appreciation for you and watching it and also it's on amazon video um for anyone who wants to watch it that's true it also has like a hundred percent it's a hundred percent certified on rotten tomatoes so right wow the best that's the best you can be folks how do you like them tomatoes no that's wow i do remember we made it with like

no money i mean for people who you know it's an indie it was like 1.79 million something like that Yeah. And I made no money because Amazon like basically bought it when we were, you know, when you're down, you just want to make the film. You're like, I'm not going to make any profit. Like, you know, and so they were the reason why they were like, and I kind of knew it when I started training at UCLA with Tom Stebbins, a shout out. He was like an amazing coach. I knew that if they saw me training and doing that, they would get there's a part of people like excited to see somebody doing something like that. And so I think that was a big part for them. It's like, oh, it's just this diving thing and she's doing it. And that would make them sort of focus on that versus the sexual abuse. And, you know, it was it became such a personal film for me because it was almost like also very autobiographical because of I had my Me Too movement story in Mexico. And it was, you know, the hardest one of the hardest things I've had to live. And so it was it just came it just gave me the feeling of being fully in something in a way, you know, my heart, my mind, my soul was fully invested. and for my own survival my own you know story to be able to finalize that film just felt like oh i how could i go and do something right now that's just kind of like you know it's just harder to then turn back and and and do something that isn't as invested and look it's it's also really nice to kind of go and do your job as an actor and say bye and not care about anything else and that's

awesome totally but I I tasted the other and I'm like oh wow that's nice that's really nice so yeah I do I do hope you like continue to do like one one for them one for me just just even for like a mental health reset I hope um because it is I mean I I remember in like preparing for this I was looking I was like oh wow like look at these themes she's exploring like like trying to formulate some like intelligent question to ask you about obviously your me too experience the advocacy that you're doing for you and women and dive and then i was like there's no like there's no like question about theme this is just like unfortunately the lived experiences of being a woman right and i i don't know i've i have found that working you know i just did a audible show

um, for Simpson street, for Kerry Washington's company. And I've really enjoyed working for female bosses recently and, and getting to tell stories driven by women. Um, and I'd be curious, I guess, like as, as dumb of a question this is, but like in your producing, like, are you looking for more stories that are, are female driven in, in directors and writers in projects that you're looking at like what is what is exciting you as a producer and then as eventually i guess as a director that's so interesting and i agree just working you know 56 days was the two showrunners were women and it was all directors all female directors amazing yeah and i wasn't very cool i wasn't really told this which was awesome i just got on set and you

know episode one and two aletheia three and four and i was like wait oh you know that's all women you know it was it wasn't like by the way that we're doing this thing you know and i don't even think that they mentioned it anywhere else you know it was just kind of i think a lot of the nudity stuff for dove to feel comfortable and for there to be i don't know i just i i do think we need both like we definitely need both sides of everything in the mixture of men and women um in a healthy way i think is the is the i just feel like the best you know it's like i mean i give the example of like for me as a christian woman to hear that god is you know male and it's very male centric and male male male to finally be hearing like women preaching

on the same text it is like i was missing out on so much you know i was like wow all of this other side to god that i was like we were crippled like we were just crippled christians going on with one side of the coin yeah and it was it kind of feels the same and in my industry in term in our industry in terms of like just the sensitivities the things to say uh for me what interests me and what excites me it's so funny I've only recently realized this is what I do so when I have trauma and I don't

understand something I might not go towards a project because I'm aware that it's because of this traumatic thing or this un healed wound that I have but there's a question there that I have and I'm like does

anybody else feel this is anybody what's going on here so for example the show the movie that I'm developing now to direct has to do with female rage and through the lens of something you know seemingly sweet and cute as like my daughter's bully at school or whatever right and this mother goes into a full-on vengeance towards an eight-year-old um and it kind of spirals into like some horrible thing it goes darker and darker you're like what's going on there you know and there's an unhealed wound and so very late in the you know we already got the first draft from ipatia this incredible

writer and i was like oh oh oh like in therapy i'm like oh yeah yeah that's the thing i'm not dealing with wait a minute yeah totally you know and the dots connecting the dogs the dots are connecting and you know especially um yesterday i went to disneyland so i'm a little hung over right now um but i took the kids like it was the most incredible experience but i lost my two-year-old for about i can even feel it right now i'm like it was three minutes and i whoo let's just say my mind and my imagination can be the worst because we were right next to the water where you know there's like these little like the boat thing in the water near uh the haunted house and whatever there's like a water thing and my daughter's too she doesn't know how to swim you

know and so i just started screaming like a like a mother who's lost her two-year-old and like grabbing people and asking them to help because i'm also i didn't have my glasses on and it was nighttime and i was just like flipping out and so the feelings that i that this brought up are things that i am exploring in this in this film and i don't do it consciously right i don't do it like i have to work on this it's like i then realize as i'm working on this specific project that i'm like oh my body and my soul took me there for a reason because i need to learn a little bit more about myself on this so that's how stuff interests me i don't see it initially as clearly but yeah yeah i can i can relate to that i i was just on the phone with my mom earlier

today talking about rehearsal for death of a salesman and in in like in the middle of a sentence i was like oh rehearsing this play is bringing up a bunch of things that i i need to talk to so like i need a new therapist you're rehearsing death of a salesman right now yeah i'm doing it i'm doing it on broadway jack this is what yeah this is one of my news for carla this is one of my ultimate and again yeah it's about you know boys and their dad but i am so connected to that story in so many levels it's like wow jack that's amazing oh yeah i'll text you about it but you should yeah i'd love for you to come see it it's great it's with nathan lane and laurie metcalf and chris abbott and ben allers and yeah it's it's a good little crew we're in

previews yeah yeah we're in previews right now but i was talking to my mom about it and like yeah very similar thing where i was just like oh like i didn't think about what this is bringing up and like that's probably that was probably a non-zero it was probably a big reason why i wanted to do this so badly um and so i need matt matt and i used to have the same therapist but he retired, so I need to find a new therapist. You retired after you guys? We wore him out. He was like, that's it. I wore him out. Actually, I think he did

stay on for... He's only 40. I was going through a really big breakup, and I think he stayed on for a couple months to make sure I would get through the breakup, which was really sweet. And then when we got through it, I was like, you can ride off into the sunset now. You can go wherever

therapists go when they retire. right right wow yeah to the therapist community this sorry this is such a strange tangent but you going to disney yesterday also reminded me of when we were one of the benefits for the audience of being on a disney abc show was that we would get great access to disneyland um i had a couple birthdays there and and it was a really it was a treat it was a tree it was a tree um you don't know what you have until you lose it right it's true it's true it's true also really weird skipping lines and like looking at people in the face and being like wow this feels really dirty and i'm

doing it still this little child is looking at me and uh i feel very conflicted about this but i am going to go on the teacups anyway yeah yeah i mean it's horrible it's it's it's it's it's you sacrifice a little piece of your soul for it but you know it's uh it's fun too it's so funny i know we've been talking about a lot of different things and this is a a very specific question but this comes up a lot when jack and i are watching and seeing you and and we're often praising your acting um and even like especially early on like you can just see your comedic timing also and your comedic sensibilities, even when there's nothing like

this is sort of inherently funny about the role, which I love to see. But one of the things that we often reference, and I don't know, it's always a risk trying to have conversations about acting process because it's like, it never quite feels as,

you know, like you're asking something very specific, but that's very personal to someone. So it's hard to kind of, you know, mend those two things together. But I feel like oftentimes you're acting, when you're in just silent moments, your acting is so good like there's so much aliveness happening inside of you that makes you really like compelling to watch and uh how do you do it no but just kind of i'm curious like if

you have any specific like thoughts around anything that you were doing in in those moments again i know it's broad but to make that so compelling you know yeah i think yeah no i mean this is so interesting because i still try to pinpoint what good listening is in acting i think it's you know one of the biggest totally i mean are you kidding me any acting class any uh you know coach any anything is like how do you listen yeah it's the thing um and for me i realized like it was a big thing that i would get told at like this you know british uh theater ba honors acting degree that i did is like you're not listening like they would tell me like you're not listening and i was like i didn't understand i was like she just put her ear right up to the camera

she tried to listen really hard with her that's right oh my gosh and i remember they would have us like you know write down what words of their sentences would kind of create like they would have a picture of our stomach what would arrive to the stomach versus the head versus the heart y'all none of that worked for because i would literally imagine like something coming to my head something coming and it doesn't right it doesn't it doesn't happen like that and so they did tell us though they said years from now you're gonna remember stuff that we taught you here that you're gonna be like oh i get it now right so for me it was it's more kind of um observing how i listen in real life and how i always sort of hold on to one thing that they said because

i'm gonna probably it's like i'm even i'm like thinking about that thing and i'm off with that you know how that happens when you're like listening and you hold on to the one thought and then some other thought comes in your head and you want to say it right yeah that kind of that flow is what i understand what active listening feels like to me and my body is like hearing something that i track with it's not there's no there's never nothing happening whether it's my mom calling me annoying me like she called me like eight times before this podcast i was like mom like i you can't you gotta stop okay i'm answering because you gotta stop for the next two hours right but even just the way you know i received that phone call you know because there's

so many instances in the scene where you receive a phone call like what is your your nervous system like to what does this person bring up in your nervous system right but then you can't fabricate that so it's like it's really hard to kind of tap into the reality of what that feels versus like fabricating what that feels so for me it's like the listening is is is in that in that world i don't know if i answered any anything yeah no that totally yeah definitely yeah thank you for that i think it's i this actually came up in conversation uh with a friend of mine who was asking about watching actors be on the phone like when you only see one side of a conversation of a telephone conversation and how I think that's really hard to act well. I think it's really

hard to act when you don't see the other side, you know, and it's just you responding to the call because it's, because it's what we're talking about. It's just listening. It's just active listening. And then like, you know, filling in the bits of the speech. You know, recently I've asked people to actually be on the other side of the phone call in scenes. That was the genesis of this conversation. He was asking from a production standpoint, are actors just talking to themselves on set or is someone reading the other side of the phone call and i was like well if it's scripted like maybe they have like a stand-in or like something like the actor's probably not there because the schedule is blah blah blah but it really stuck out to me um in your question just

because yeah it's that that's just active listening right i remember too reading a uh interview with marianne cotillard who i love and they're talking about how she stays so like engaged and alive in her eyes while she's listening. And she was like, I just think of different kinds of sushi. That's true. I mean, I was like, man, people, people really are just finding different routes to the same, you know, to the same destination and acting like, as long as something is like happening really. Right. And I think sometimes like early on in my, in my acting, I over sometimes overdid things too, but it's like, as long as things are happening and real thoughts are occurring and being tried to figure it out, it's really pretty compelling, you know? And we

see this too, when like, you know, oftentimes they'll have like, you know, like someone from the transportation department will like sit in the car that the actor will be driving and the camera's on them. And if you walk by and this person is not even acting, they're just sitting there having thoughts and you're like, wow, that's really interesting. You know? So I feel like so much of acting is like, how do we like take away all the extraneous shit and just like show up and be human but it's amazing the amount of work that it takes to do all that i also just yeah yeah i also had the thought of remembering sometimes on the other side for the audience of the phone calls the other actor who you're going to be act who's on the other side of the call is not the one there

it's someone reading oftentimes a script supervisor shout out to suzy sax who's an amazing woman and has an incredible accent and so also i remember like like seeing like suzy like in i don't know it's a New York accent or, or very Chicago, Chicago. That's right. Um, reading the lines was always so fun. She said she would come on the podcast. Oh, amazing. Yes. Which is what she would have to say about us. She's like, am I allowed to fucking swear? I have a, I had Carla, before I moved to New York, I had a standing every once a month, I would get together with Susie and we'd get hot dogs. Um, so she's,

she's doing well. She's actually, I think going to see Elfie, uh, uh oh wow in london right now because amazing doing his theater wait carl i want to talk a little bit about murder just because you it like we talked about this at the beginning but laurel i agree was kind of more of a question mark character than like a little less defined maybe or i guess you know doucheface asher was also a little less defined too but like it feels like connor mckayla west were like very much on the page how i'm curious i think i know the answer this but i would love to hear you talk a little bit about especially with like how involved the castillo family is then in like the later seasons like how how how how involved were you in those

conversations with pete and you know flushing laurel and that out it started with uh shonda uh rhymes but buster rhymes emailing me about whether or not i i was okay with them having laurel turn into like be a latina and so i remember being super afraid of the stereotypes that i'd seen on tv so i sort of responded with but are we go is that does this mean this this this and this and she said absolutely not like we won't even know until much later so i liked it as like a reveal which would then reveal that there's no review you know that there's no other in terms of boxing her in a in a place that then felt different to people and i uh we landed on castillo as the last name and then i remember feeling like the

the you know her with the sexy sexy of frank and then the sexy sexy of i think it was arjun who played uh what was the part of her boyfriend and then i was like hey like i think we're falling into this like latina sexy sexy like there's much more that we could explore and how about you know and so we would just pete and i would have conversations and to be honest with like the writers and just with everybody i would share stories about how sometimes the most powerful people in mexico are hiding in plain sight and are you know kind of uh in charge of all the media and all of these media conglomerates and all these experiences that i had personally and sort of i would share that and they'd be like wow that's so interesting they kind of veer away from the

narco and the this yeah so i was like let's do like there could be scary and powerful it doesn't need to be narco and so that's where that came in and then i remember they realized uh the friendship of wes and laurel could then certainly be like you know turned into something where it was out of the blue because it felt like out of the blue and then it suddenly became something you know um yeah and then they they would just constantly be open to suggestions of things and i remember pete also was like what if your mom is french and i was like all right so they you know they were just taking from so much of our lives yeah it kind of reminds me a little bit of lynn paulo who are brilliant wardrobe designers she she i remember her telling me she was like honey you

can't tell a writer anything about yourself because they will put it they will put it in a in a script yes yes which is very true like it's and you know we had pete on and he talked a bit about this where it's like his greatest writing tool at times was to just like mine from us because he was watching us all day every day why not interacting with us why not yeah i was almost i was almost like using that a little bit like oh have i told you about this thing it's so funny making up stories i love that and what if what if connor goes on an italian you know vacation yeah i had the greatest time when i did that yeah yeah yeah well you realize like as actors we

realize oh wait maybe i do have a say maybe i do have like more i can be a part of the creative when i share these things so it's like well i could either you know complain about where it's going or bring suggestions and say what if you know and they would take like one out of ten or whatever it is but they would take it and they would run with it and then they would you know discover something new and then it was like a conversation because then they would send us the script and i'd be like oh this is cooler than what i you know talk to them about or you know they would always up it in a way um and then the the different writers that we would have was you know lovely because i got to meet so many different writers i remember tanya saracho jack you were

like no i'm not gonna do this thing i won't say what it was but it's like remember her script was like so just different to the tone of what murder had been having and then of course she then has her show like vita um on stars yeah it was incredible but like we just got to meet so many interesting people and um just hearing a little bit about pete's you know example of he was in was it private practice and then he was on gray's anatomy and then he was like it's just the the amount of school that he had to then bring to our show was was was i think what made it so great and he cared so much that's for sure nobody can say he wasn't out golfing or something like you know he was he cared so deeply if that was his flaw right to care so much is he might you

know he cared a lot about it so yeah yeah yeah yeah i'd be curious to hear a little bit like i have been going to church more recently like having moved to new york i've been going to church and it kind of surprised me at first but i was just like oh like i grew you know i grew up catholic Um, but I think that the destabilization of moving from LA to New York and starting the show and there was a lot of comfort, I think, you know, there's a church just like a couple blocks from my apartment. And I was like, Hey, I can walk into this church and like, know what the form and function of it is. I know the ritual, I know the steps, like there's going to be community. I know people are going to welcome me. Um, and I was sitting in church and I was thinking about it

And I was like, huh, like, whenever I ask these, answer these questions in interviews about how I started acting, I always talk about like musicals and musical theater. But now that I'm thinking about it, sitting in this church with a stained glass, I'm like, I think church was my first introduction to acting like, like the ceremony and ritual of mass. It's storytelling. And it's kind of like campy in a way. And like, they're singing. And you know, I, I know you have such a strong faith. I would just be curious to hear about like what role faith plays in your life as an artist. Yeah. And I think like I even struggled with your faith at times because it challenged like my lack of faith in my 20s. And now looking back on it, I think that I'm really envious that during this time, this like crazy time in our lives, you had such a strong faith to rely on, you know, to help you. navigate. So yeah, I'd be, I'd be curious to hear a little bit about that if you're comfortable talking about it. Wow. I'm just, just, I'm in the church right now with a stained glass. I'm right there right now. See, this is my active listening. I'm staying there for a second

because I love this story. Oh, wow. Right. Storytelling. I think for me, the most powerful moments are so you know how when you're watching a film and it is pierced your heart or your soul in such a way where you can't even take a breath you know and you're there is so much happening inside of you that is either healing or bursting or you're just like this film is hitting that nerve that thing that is what i feel in a church service when it is done let's not say correctly because there's no correctly there's flaws everywhere because we're flawed humans right so whenever i hear something that's garbage or that's you know something that the person has no clue i just throw it away right i'm there for a different reason it's not about that person

talking it's about me and god and so me being like opened up in a way when i'm listening to a preaching is the only thing that i can compare it with is it with the storytelling what storytelling telling does to me that feeling of the opening of the soul so for me there's no difference like there's no that is what we do is to me is like opening up of souls right you're reaching people in the inmost being of their hearts and their souls with the story you're telling them and that's going to transform them in some way in many ways and that's what to me is is church you know is i love that yeah yeah so it's in every you know it's in everything and i will say that it has become much more of a whisper than a loud trumpet sound god's voice has you know as i've

grown older i've realized that he is gently there whispering holding my hand versus um in the extremes that you know i grew up in a lot of extremes and with a mother who suffered from bipolar disorder the extremes of like god where god was who god was was extremes and so it was very challenging for me to unlearn that in my adulthood and discover god in a different in a different way, but I always trusted that he was, you know, loving and, or my higher power was loving. Like he, she is just, you know, a word that I use, but like that God was pursuing me and it wasn't something that I could even attain. Like there's no doing, there's no, if i do i will meet meet god there's no god comes to me and there's no there's nothing i can do

to have him love me less there's nothing i can do to have me have him love me more period so like forget about the doing and just like let yourself be touched and like experience that is where i'm at now versus you know when i was younger yeah i love that i hear a lot of like acceptance and like grace in that um yeah and i can imagine that feels really just comforting and yeah like warm and beautiful yeah yeah i love that how cool to like also yeah for like that relationship to change as you get older too i was i was talking to the um person I'm seeing and they were like really interested in me at 37, like walking into church. And I was like, I don't know. I kind of think like, like sexuality, faith is fluid. Like I think that I'm

just like finding it at a different time. And it means a little bit different to me now than maybe how it meant to me even five years ago, 10 years ago, or being raised and going to Catholic school and being an altar boy and yeah so i i love that have you guys ever been to like a 12-step program by any chance i have yeah i have not so higher power and being broken and arriving in a room and sharing with no crosstalk and and being vulnerable with strangers feels like the right kind of church to me and in terms of where it's really at you know yeah and um for me it's like churches sometimes have become a place where the facade is all you see the outfits the who's you know holier than thou whereas the 12-step programs have this kind of like yeah so i'm just broken i'm

coming here to share where i'm at that's where i think the original church you know was kind of the idea of it is there versus the you know the rules and the prosperity uh gospel or the god only loves you if the the the the um the very limiting view of god and so for me it a lot of the reasons why my view of god and has transformed is through these 12-step you know rooms through the rooms of like seeing like and hearing of a much more embracing and gentle god was been it's just been you know beautiful and i know it can be very foreign to some people like i remember matt right you were are you um were you agnostic or was it uh if were you yeah i grew up atheist i would say more like definitely spiritual now yeah always figuring that out continuing yeah

i remember yeah but definitely was a more i don't know if this was by the point that we knew each other but at certain points it was more of an oppositional sort of atheism um which i tend to think of sometimes with people who are atheists like not just like that i have a certain set of beliefs that don't involve this but being sort of oppositional you know i don't think it was i don't think it was that by that time we knew each other um but i think at earlier points it was sort of like it's like a defensive atheism you know i remember i remember that a little bit yeah yeah And I remember being a part of the last cusp of that changing. I think hearing about that change was very intriguing to me. I was like, oh, interesting. That makes sense. Yeah. Cause I mean, my, for me, like the spirituality for me that opened up around like the activism. Right. And before that, I feel like I was like, so like, quote unquote, focused on my goals and the material world in like these ways.

are also very steeped in like capitalism and white supremacy and patriarchy and shit um and unlearning that like and being able to like be more expansive was to be able to hold multiple truths also you know without living in the binary of either or but the both and and really just being able to um yeah accept and see the beauty and all those sort of different uh you know beliefs and ways of seeing the world and stuff um and that actually brings me to another question uh and maybe i'm aware of the time here too yeah but i'm wondering is is there any specific points of your evolution that you can think about from the days of how to go with murder to now that you're like proud of yourself for in terms of how you've like evolved and grown i will say acting wise i

realized that um for example my choices were to do with what i expected uh pete and the show to need right and i remember choosing the appropriate things for the show in my choices if that makes any sense and with moving within that and i've sort of let go a little bit more of that and it's been exciting to just be like what do i want to do versus what do they want from me right yeah And it's just that shift in the question of, you know, you hear it all the time, like, bring yourself be, you know, choose your way. And if they like it, great. If they don't, then, you know, yeah, it's easy to say that. Right. But if you're somebody who's been in a career of always needing that approval in order to get paid to get fed to, you know, support my family, it comes at a cost. So I have learned how to, uh, sort of within the show that I'm in, obviously for an audition, it's different, but within like, I kind of like have to do what they want, kind of what I want, you know, it's like a merging of two. And then if I get the show, I'm like, okay, where,

what, what do I need to bring to like be, be and feel fully expressed in this part? So I think it's, you know, I think age and growing in that is, is just been something that's happened uh recently where i'm like i'm just gonna bring my choice here and it could be totally off and weird and surprisingly enough they've been like that is awesome and i'm like oh great that would have been great to do earlier right uh with spiritually i just yeah i think the response is what you said matt of like it's almost like it's all had to happen it's all had to you know it's all it's all been it's it will all be and it has all been used for good so yeah whichever wherever i was my mistakes my you know i think the learning of of um my i guess

addictive personalities of the dopamine that we're talking about like in older like now i um just being able to see it with all these things that people didn't have in the past my grandparents you know doing all these g and all g and g genealogy genealogy trees okay of seeing like they had no they they did not have the tools we have today and just being excited to see you know what my children turn out with all the tools there are today to to you know know themselves to understand the past and trauma and all these things that we kind of inherit spiritually emotionally physically from the past is just kind of like okay it's it's i'm here for reason this is what i'm gonna do to let's say stop or put an end to these these chains or these

whatever you want to call it chains is pretty dramatic now that i'm saying it but uh just yeah these things in my past and my family cycles uh so it's it's kind of like i'm just grateful for the the tools that are out there for people to access now versus um before it felt a little bit like it was it was just non-existent yeah all right Carlita I feel like this is a great love you this is this is I mean I cannot express how excited people I mean we barely even scratched the surface of questions because there were so many people are so excited that you were coming on but I think I hope that people like this sort of meandering conversation I think is a really cool time capsule because it's exactly how we would socialize on set like we would get into

these like we'd get into these really weird conversations about like hey what's your relationship to faith right now and you know then that would become a you know activism don't understand is that we were like they would they i remember um they would come to tell us off like we have to be acting and we would be like you don't understand this conversation is so much more important than anything you can be telling in our courtroom our reactions our courtroom sessions yeah we're having transformative conversations right now i don't care that viola is acting 10 feet from me i'd rather hear i'd rather hear about carla's diving practice at ucla oh man oh man i loved it yeah so this is just a little snippet of what we

were uh true and i'm glad 14 hours a day yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's why you guys are like my family it's like insane this is it was so many hours every day yeah i mean well i mean and just like watching each other get married or have kids or you know go through all these different you know personal growths it like it really does become you know more than just like a work family i'm i matt and i've said this a thousand times but we've just been really grateful to be able to use this platform as a way to like reconnect with people you know because it was such a monumental time in our lives yeah yeah but you have you've you've got a bunch of stuff coming out but i mean the big one right now is 56 days on amazon which is super fun avin and i acted together on abc

family before it was freeform that was my that was my that was my job right before uh how to get with murder did you guys get along at all we did i was i was intimidated by having a bit just because he has such swagger and at that time like i just got into la and despite him being younger i was just like he was driving like a weird classic car at the time and had like a cane that he was walking with oh such an avid thing to do yeah totally and you know had that that long beautiful mane of hair but like we told we we got along like he i was just uh recurring for like eight or nine episodes in the final episode of his show gotcha but yeah it was it was a fun time twisted twisted on maybe you can ask me i remember that uh twisted okay because i remember him saying

something about that show in a few interviews and i was like i don't know what that show is but now i know that you were in that jack um yeah i would find you and him actually pretty similar in a way so i don't know if you guys clashed or not like it's you know when some people are yeah yeah yeah too similar yeah yeah but yeah i think they brought they brought so much uh um just depth to the you know to the show of even though the first few episodes seem like it's kind of just like a you know sexy sexy like erotic thriller this that yeah then it's it's kind of they lure you into we all you know the show the showrunners lure you into an actual message of human brokenness and how we, you know, past mistakes

and what that can do to us and what secrets, how secrets corrode and just powerful shit that I was like, yeah, let's do that. It's like the Trojan horse, right? You're doing this show with all these other bells and whistles to then bring you to some, you know,

human theme that I just really loved exploring. But yes, that is one of the shows that right now is on. And I'm now like... I want to hear, will you quickly tease to the Diego Luna film that you're doing? Because you have one coming out, right? For the World Cup times. Yeah, the World Cup.

So Diego Luna plays the Mexican man who brought the 1986 World Cup to Mexico. And again, this is the third time that Mexico is the home of a World Cup. So it's kind of a mirror of how that could have happened. But it's of 1986. so it's a period and it is funny it's an adventure it's kind of like it's just big and bold and it has a lot of um sort of just a lot of twists and turns but it's based on a true story and uh he is one of the best uh partners that i've ever watched and learned from in a film he's you know phenomenal at yeah just man it's 3 a.m and he still cares i'm like i just need to get home

and go to bed and he still cares i'm like damn like and he's been doing this since he was a kid so yeah uh he's very intuitive has so much knowledge and just his opinions are you know i'm just like pearls i'm just kind of like waiting to see what he has to say about a scene that is fully blocked and he'll be like no no something doesn't ring right and i'm like i guess i just my bullshit meter is gone i was like but we got it like we can just film it and it's fine and he's like no and so we take a break and we spent hours talking about how it can change and i'm like we're really doing this okay but then when it ends up and then it changes and the walking of the scene and 50 extras changes i'm like that's so cool oh yeah i guess it feels much

better now yeah you know it's just kind of the the yeah the boldness that he brings to to not doing something he doesn't feel is is just right um yeah so yeah that film is mexico 86 i don't really know if that's the title guys because it's like we just filmed it and of course the world cup is on our tails so it is i'm you know i have not seen anything and it comes out in june again don't know the date yet but it's on netflix um so that one's gonna be fun too yeah oh i can't wait yeah awesome 80s it's night it's the 80s are you in a power suit what are you wearing oh my gosh the style i love it i look yeah i actually was terrified because the 80s to me i was like i'm gonna look so bad and the women that did the hair makeup like she is like she somehow chose the

right palette of color and the right and i had so many fittings and i was like oh okay this doesn't make me cringe like this isn't like stereotype this isn't like a like the halloween version of the 80s you know when you just like show up in that kind of to everything too much she did the real version of what the 80s could be for me so i i really appreciate that so it's pretty cool Oh, hell yeah. I'm excited to see that. I can't wait. Yeah.

Watch some football. Yeah. Are you guys going to go? Hopefully, I'm still trying to look for my World Cup tickets. Apparently, they're a 10 grand a pop for Mexico City's inaugurational game, which I'm not going to pay. Holy cow. Wow. Let's see who I can look for.

Carlos Sousa magic. Yeah, you are Mexico's darling. I'm hoping El Presidente, we have Carla here right now. She wants to go to the World Cup. let's let's make it happen i'll try i have so many other priorities in my life right now i'm gonna wait till like the day before and be like oh yeah it's the world cup um right yeah can i come yeah very cool man all right it's been such a treat this has been really so grateful to yeah have the opportunity to to sit down with you and reconnect and and chat same same and matt are

you still in la i'm not i am in i am all about all about yeah i keep my whereabouts um i won't be disclosing on the podcast but i will tell you personally okay um but uh yeah well we know where we can find jack in on what is it uh yeah you can find me i'll give you i'll drop on the subreddit four and six or you can find me hopefully on on stage at 7 p.m or barnes and nobles with viola davis at this that's yeah that's exactly um but i hope to bump into you guys and run you down the street and see yeah and hug you and yeah i miss you guys and um you guys really are like my brothers i just hearing your voice is doing something like it just it feels like home to me so yeah i love that i miss you guys miss you too miss you too all right everyone thank you

for listening thank you i don't know what i'm supposed to do in the outro so maybe we'll fix it later but this is or we'll keep it we could just keep this so you see how the the cookies the sausages and the sausage gets made in honor of our guest hasta luego

te amo hasta luego gracias adios muchas gracias amazing that's it for today's show

thanks for joining us and see you next week for a new episode they drop every Thursday and don't be late because the professor

doesn't like to wait how we got away with murder is an original production by Podcast Nation. Produced by James Brown and Alicia Panier. Audio production by Miles Carter. Original music by Elefante. Thank you.