How We Got Away with Murder - Katie Findlay on Soup, Secrets and Discovering Rebecca

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Get ready, HTGAWM fans — Katie Findlay joins Matt and Jack to revisit their time playing Rebecca Sutter, from the early days of casting to discovering Rebecca’s trademark style and look once the show was rolling. Katie shares how they navigated the uncertainty of not knowing Rebecca’s full arc, and how that shaped their performance as new details were constantly revealed. Also, did we mention Katie loves soup? Now you know. Tune in for a revealing and fun look back at one of Season 1’s most intriguing characters.We want to hear from you! Send us your show and episode questions with the chance to be read on the air during an episode: [e-mail] Matt & JackIG @jackfalaheeTIKTOK @jackfalahee X @RestingPlatypus REDDIT u/ItsMeJackFalaheeIG @mattmcgorry TIKTOK @matt.mcgorry X @MattMcGorry Facebook: @ActorMattMcGorryThank you to our sponsors!Hero Bread: This year, hit your goals without giving up your favorite bready dishes. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to hero.co and use code JACKANDMATT at checkout.Ollie: Show your dog some love in the way they understand best. Head to Ollie.com/jackandmatt, tell them all about your dog, and use code JACKANDMATT to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! Plus, they offer a Happiness Guarantee on the first box, so if you’re not completely satisfied, you’ll get your money back.This podcast is brought to you by Podcast Nation.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

hey everyone my name is matt mccorry and i played the character asher millstone on how to get away with murder and i'm jack fallahy and i played connor walsh on that very same tv show and this is the how we got away with murder podcast matt hey bud jack fallahy i'm very excited yeah me too You know what something I was thinking about is that this is finally an outlet for me to say my name correctly enough. So people will maybe start pronouncing my last name, Fallahee, correctly. Did I do it right? You did. Yeah, you crushed it. Okay, great. That would have been very embarrassing.

It's like, no, that's actually not good. Sometimes my butthole clenches when I pronounce people's names, full names for the first time, you know, and I'm just not entirely sure. And I'm just like, oh, I hope I get it right. you kind of mumble a little bit you know like jack yeah yeah totally yeah um we have a very you know you go ahead no no i was gonna say we have a very special guest i don't know that's also what you were gonna say that is what i was gonna say we have a very special guest do you want to do you want to introduce them yes i'd love to uh their name is katie finley and uh let's go they played rebecca on how to get away with murder and they're just an awesome

awesome person and here they are walking into the zoom riverside recording oh hello i'm trying to do my own foley but i can't tell if it's working it was that was great it it was that was really good actually matt i'd like to congratulate you on saying my my name correctly for the first time is it did i say it for the first time correctly no you've just been saying it wrong for like 15 years and i didn't want to tell you anything about it but i am now have i really have i really no of course not honestly my i had the little butthole clench i'm not gonna lie this is what listen i'm i'm i'm just trying to stick with the bit as best as possible no that's great thank you i could see the color leaving matt's face because right it's important

he's also a very he's a very pink man so you can really tell when something gets sure that's true it's true not always but right now i am and i'm excited can i ruin the flow with a 15 second story about exactly what you're talking about sure i'd love that jack and i are doing a group interview and uh the person who is uh about to start the interview like obviously jack's very handsome man she was being very sassy to him and he said just so you know my last name is pronounced valley and she looks at him with such derision and she goes jack i understand how to pronounce your name thanks and poor jack was like wow yeah i'm so he was like i'm so sorry absolutely yeah go ahead and she goes i am here with katie finley and jack flanagy immediately

oh my god i don't remember that i know uh and it has stuck in my brain and it just pops up every once in a while uh like a little yearly advent calendar of people not listening to jack about that's all right that's all right we're gonna we're gonna reclaim my name on this podcast but that's not what the pod that's not what the podcast is about it is about the show that we all did together and we're so happy to have you uh something matt and i did when when we started this was we just because it is interesting having worked i mean it was so long ago but also having worked with people you know so intimately for so long you kind of forget everyone's like origin story you know because you just become a family on set so i would love and i know matt would love

to hear how did you get on how to get away with murder where were you what were you doing where were you at in your career your life how did this project find you how did you find it oh good so just like really simple questions that don't encapsulate very much of what uh damn okay well uh i was i want to say just starting out but not really i had like stumbled through a couple of super embarrassing run-ins with being on national television. I'm Canadian and I'm from Vancouver and I still live in Vancouver. So any of my experiences in that direction were like them flying me and me panicking for six months and then being sent home. So much like today. So I had been on a show called The Killing that I wasn't really, I wasn't in that much,

but I was really, really dead for like two seasons in a super public way. So I was already at a point where like people were stopping me on the bus and embracing me and crying and going, Jesus Christ, I'm so glad you're okay. But I was still a white staff. Whoa. How was that by the way? Small detour. I think at the time I didn't think any of this was going to work, which like jury's still out, but, um, anybody recognizing me for anything was like, Oh fuck. Thank you. But like having people do it at work or like having you know i had a guy at a table go are you an aspiring actress oh boy and i was like no why and he was like well you just speak very well and i said all right well

thanks thanks very much the reality is that i actually work see ya and then but you know that was bizarre i think the real the real one that got me was after that show i was on a cw show called The Carrie Diaries for two years in New York. What? I knew this. Obviously, I knew this. Yeah, no, you knew this. You knew this.

We have collectively spent many hours laughing about my hair and makeup because I look like Malibu Barbie ate me. Wait. Dude, it's really good. I'm Googling it right now. I look like my twin sister. Like, who is she?

Who is she? Love it. Okay, amazing. Is that not crazy? um i'll be posting an image of that uh on instagram as this as this airs um with your consent oh yeah oh yeah it was like the most glam i've ever been in my life and the most miserable i've ever been just like as a human because i was like 20 a baby child uh i was just at anna sofia rob's party the other day shout out anna sofia who you and i both worked with

anna sofia and i sat through a hurricane together and she is because we got there in time for sandy oh nice oh my god we had ice cream in her house in the dark she's the sweetest kindest person i've ever known in my life yeah a ball of light okay so you my god you were doing you were doing that after the killing yeah so i was doing that i was like alone in a basement in new york on national television for the first time at 21 which like did not go well for me personally but i think went fine for everybody else sure i feel like i'm with like the anxiety disorder crew on on this one so i feel held yeah i can't imagine what talking to alfie alfie's like the world's most and least neurotypical man so i can't imagine what trying to talk to him about these things let's be like

you'll be like yeah i just felt horrible fear and he's like i don't know what that's like i'm fine all the time um we actually did talk about that we talked about i asked him like how did you do it so well when i was struggling so greatly and he had like you know the most intellectual beautiful take on it which i i was like that didn't help much but i appreciate your experience it doesn't he tells you to read more t.s elliott or some shit and then he moves on and he's currently reading a book by t.s elliott actually i know i just voice noted him yesterday okay good i thought that this was purely coincidence i think that's too much no i need you to know that he still he still starts every correspondence uh verbally with me with

oh kate oh yeah yeah okay so you're watching you're on national television you're on carrie public school public school affect baby um yeah so i'm i'm on carrie diaries uh i'm in new york alone i feel completely crazy uh i'm still reading the comments i can't tell why they're spinning me out i had to like adjust to national television 100 miles an hour and then we got canceled i'm trying to timeline it for myself because it was 78 years ago i auditioned for this i auditioned for everything assuming that nothing would come of it ever because that's what you do uh and then i auditioned for this and the scenes were literally me yelling get out of my apartment right like the scenes were what you saw in the pilot and that like i i said maybe 11 things and

just had to be like suitably uh broken as a human being which works really well for me that's wait that's interesting so they didn't they didn't give you dummy sides that were like a more substance i don't think so yeah for the listeners sometimes for a role if it only has if it's dialogue light in an episode but they know it's going to be in future episodes they'll they'll write fake scenes or even borrow scenes from like existing shows or films and have you do those but they they just gave you what is seen in the pilot wow yep no i had what like there may have been more i might be forgetting but it was like extremely minimal and it was just wow and i was like yeah sure okay uh and then they came back around and asked for i want to say a test and i couldn't like i

contractually couldn't because carrie diaries hadn't been canceled we were still doing stuff uh so i just like wasn't i couldn't do it and then i think i i had come home to vancouver and we were in that weird middle zone where you don't know if something's going and you don't know if you know whatever the the hell zone of death and um every actor goes the hell zone of death yeah where you're like am i going to aruba or am i throwing myself off a bridge and which circle of hell yes right exactly ours it turns out yeah but uh and then my agents called me back and they said okay here's the deal they want you well they test they tested people it just didn't work um they've come back it's a straight offer and at 23 i had no idea right i

was like oh okay that's nice now at 35 it's a straight offer but right um i'm realizing without my yeah what i was a child yeah you were the youngest on the show yes i was a tiny baby i was re-watching it with some friends last night just so i would like understand what i was talking about and all of them who know me now like especially like my queer friends in my community were like did you have a younger sister that you never told us like who the fuck is this little guy yeah and they said yeah so they're just waiting they're okay to be in second position and they're just waiting to see what happens with your other show and they'll figure it out if you don't wow uh and then carrie diaries got canceled and murder got picked up on the same day so i was

like i was like getting a haircut yeah i was getting i was getting my i've been on a show for six months and my hair is insane chop and both of them happened at the exact same time whoa yeah it was wild we'll be right back now back to class that's a nice way to not necessarily have to feel the entirety of the grief of a show getting canceled to be like yeah immediately doing another i don't know if that felt that way but well it was okay i was mostly it was just that i was homesick like i i was so not mentally well in my i was gonna say my early 20s but just like in my 20s at all um and i think like living away from home in a city that everyone told me i was supposed to be having an incredible time in in a basement while adjusting to being on network tv

full-time was like not great for my mental health so everyone i worked with was beautiful wait wait wait wait wait hang on that that means that means you shot wait you shot the how to get with murder pilot while still being on carrie diaries is that right no no the pilot so carrie diaries gets canceled you've been offered how day with murder yeah the pilot was announced on the same day that like some some there was some overlap where like i could officially announce that i was involved with this other show on the day that the last one i'm sorry i'm like shaking a stim toy beside the mic is that working for everybody is this it's great everybody can't hear it yeah this is what we all need we should we should tell everyone that we we all we each the three of us on one

of the other maybe it was last week jack and i were one of us pulled up a stim toy that we had and then the other one pulled up the exact same one and then today katie just pulled up the exact same one as well so we're not going to name it unless they give us a brand sponsorship i want like 11 of these delivered to my doorstep immediately do you have any idea how little social currency i have in this world sending me stim toys we can make that happen if they sponsor us we will definitely send you stem toys if i have one more season on murder maybe i would have but i didn't so i'm gonna just get it off of you guys so carrie dyers gets canceled you do you go home being homesick or do you go straight to philly no i went home i was home for like a couple months

um also just so everybody knows i'm like the spokesperson for attention deficit disorder so i appreciate anytime anyone has to re-ask a question to keep me on track uh you're doing the lord's work so thank you thank you that's my job um that's your job it's not matt's job it's matt's job too but i feel like your other me oh that was shocked you're you're saying that's your yeah i heard okay i'm trying my best jack fowley fighting for his life every minute all our different flavors of neurodivergence converging like thanos's rings it makes me oh it makes me feel so much more it makes me feel so much more comfortable than us didn't have rings yeah it's stones yeah that's what i say when people ask me about the two of you i go oh you know all three

of us were just like thanos's rings together okay so anyway just as thanos's rings uh non-existent you go you go back to vancouver i was home in vancouver trying to recoup from what felt like a completely insane experience, uh, and assuming I would never work again. And then all of a sudden I had to leave and go to Philly to shoot the pilot. Wow. Yeah. It was really insane. And I, and I really didn't, I knew it was a big deal, but I don't think I could fully understand in my body what a big deal it was until I got there. And then I was so scared I could hardly move. Like I didn't know what to do. Yeah. Were you, what was your contract for? Was it for a season? Was it for a couple episodes was it i am pretty sure did i sign the full six i i can't remember if i

signed a stand so for people who don't know usually a standard pilot contract for a series regular is to just sign a six season contract and then whatever happens happens which is intense because like you're going off of a single episode of television and then if everything gets crazy then that's that's where you live forever i can't remember if it was a one year or a six got it okay but it was it was at least a season oh yeah yeah no they they were very reassuring because they realized that what they gave me to work with was they were asking for a big commitment based on not a lot so i remember them being really reassuring they were like no this is a real character on the show they are the main cast they are this is not an optional person this is not a

fractional this is like this person is in the family along for the ride so i think yeah i can't remember i could look back and figure it out but we try not to give too many spoilers but at this point you didn't know your fate i assume like as well when you were accepting the role is that right that's a that's a different story that we can tell if you want to put that somewhere but the short answer is no let's tell that later i think yeah let's um so you're gonna have to listen to 10 000 episodes of this podcast to hear katie talk about that exactly in the future it's okay that happened anyway i started talking and they were like oh my god this person still sit tones i want to listen to 10 000 episodes of them talking yes i truly was wondering that actually

um i was thinking back to maybe a voice note you sent me i was like do you do voiceover because you do have such a great voice i don't i want to i have a really good uh siri impression that i do when uh one of my partners loses their phone they find it by siri which is not good when you have someone in the house who in a completely different room will go I'm sorry I couldn't find anything on that Google says Matt McGorry is wow that's so good that we're actually gonna get the podcast is gonna get removed from flagged yeah platforms yeah voiceover agents in the audience to take note yeah yeah yeah did you okay so you get to Philly were you how long were you in Philly You asked me these questions.

I know, it's 11 years ago. With such confidence. Let me give you some grace. I literally do not remember you being in Philly. I know. Thanks, Jack. But that's how bad my memory is. No, I understand.

If you get timing wrong or anything wrong, you're in the clear. I was in Philly. I was in Philly for less time than you guys. Actually, you know what? I can sum up my Jack brain of Philly. I don't remember meeting everybody. I remember, uh, the first person I remember is Matt McGorry because everybody, yep. Because

everybody was at the bar at the Sofitel and I was so unbelievably anxious and terrified and tired. And I felt like a stranger in my own body. And Matt and I started talking about something accessible and boring and normal. And we were both standing around the corner drinking cocktails and talking about how we don't drink cocktails and don't like cocktails um and i was like yep we were just like because i that was back when i still could drink and did drink and i was just sort of like yeah that's what adults do i'm 23 funny i'm gonna drink a cocktail and then the next day i got i was like doing hair and makeup tests while you guys were doing your jobs i think essentially is the jam so i was getting my little they were trying to figure out how to make half

my head or a bit of my head look shaved without doing it right um i would have been down but whatever uh and i got a full actual cornrow set on one side of my head which like she did a fantastic job i am a white person of mixed heritage i have never had a protective hairstyle before i had no idea what was going to happen to me i had a migraine for two days and i couldn't leave my time wow uh and i remember being so because i like hadn't broken the skin with everybody yet so i hadn't like chatted with everyone and settled in and whatever uh and i remember being so anxious that i realized that i i hadn't eaten all day and i did in fact and i want to i want to preface up front that it was an empty wastebasket i did in fact eat a piece of panera bread still in the bag

from a soup that I had ordered out of a waste paper basket because I was like, I can't go outside. I have to just save my own life. Right? Thank you. This is great because we've been talking to the community on Reddit and one of the users, Gay Thoughts, great username, had a question for you. Was it fun or more of a hassle to get all gothed for the show?

The goth was fine. It was just that I'm tender-headed and had never had cornrows and I'm a baby, a huge baby. Yeah, the gods of cultural appropriation were smiting you. Exactly, as well they should. As well they should. What was the decision to make Rebecca?

Because like on the page, I mean, I would love, God, I would love to read the character breakdown that you got for the audition because was, do you remember? Was it like, was it very clear or? I don't know, but I'm going to look through my mortifying 800 mile long Gmail list.

Let's see. I can't just type how to get away with murder because then I'll get every email from production I've ever gotten. Okay, if you find it, what we'll do is I'll have you, because also if I'm being completely honest and this is about honesty,

I got really jealous that you're sending both Matt and Elfie voice notes and not me. So I'd like to just be put on the Katie voice note list. I sent you voice notes on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you find it, send me a voice note of you reading the character description. I will do that.

But the question, I guess, is like, do you remember it being spelled out that Rebecca was going to have this vibe? Or was it your idea, Pete's idea? Did you guys talk about it? how did you come up with the the Rebecca because she Rebecca is in such stark contrast I think to the the law students and like I agree you know the rest of the cast I what I remember and again like people can sue me I have nothing to take uh I think that it was that she so it's it's a character description I get a lot as the kind of femme that I was and like still sometimes now but it fits less edgy sarcastic like it's more of a it's like one of the many cartoons that a femme

could be on tv and then they just kind of fill it in as they get you is is how it has always felt to me so like i don't know that it said goth maybe it did but like alternative spiky like they they describe a kind of person and then sort of an aesthetic that comes but like in my costume fittings um there were a lot of directions there was like sort of like trashy rock vibe there was grungier vibe they were like there was leopard print involved at some point because they were kind of trying to zero in on yeah like what kind of yeah what kind of alt she was right which was so fun like at some point i had like like booty shorts and like a giant leopard print coat it just got oh my god it went all over yeah it was really cool the multiverse the multiverse truly

there are so many rebeccas yeah rebecca's all the way down but yeah i i don't think the goth honestly it was one of those learning moments for me where i went oh i'm way more comfortable in my body this way yeah like which also might have been like to be real might have been a queer thing um because I was performing millennial femme so hard so hard yeah and it still wasn't working and I still wasn't quite the one and I was still getting sent out for like she's edgy she's different she's and I it would be me and a hot girl in everything and I was like yeah I'm never the hot girl it is interesting where like I mean I I like to I'd like to think that the the industry has grown in some ways but especially when we were younger i feel like you're you're

constantly trying to put yourself into like one of a couple lanes if you're lucky that the industry allows you to be in and so yeah that's really interesting to hear about your perspective as a queer person performing and i wonder because pete i think it was really interesting to hear from him how you know you you write this thing and it's like a solitary experience of writing it and putting it on the page and then you put out this like casting call to get you know actors to audition and then upon meeting us you know he and the other writers were really starting to tailor the characters to who we are as individuals humans humans show up yeah and you're like oh god yeah you felt that way though with rebecca that it's very much more in the katie verse very very

much so yeah i i who was talking to me about actually oh yeah so yesterday i watched i rewatched a bunch of stuff with some friends of mine because it's been a minute since i've seen it uh i have a friend one of my closest friends watched the entire season at the time met me about five years ago didn't know it was me wow until someone else on our i'm just gonna give a plug someone else on my dodgeball team was like wait what's your team name do you have a name um oh jack uh we are the dodgy partons sure it's great so good yeah oh shout out i started out really bad and now i'm kind of okay hey hell yeah i hit like seven people yesterday damn i want to come watch a game come watch a game come watch you'd rather be in vancouver

anyway it's nice here and now a word from our sponsors and we are back but yeah no i uh they were like was it not really annoying to have all that makeup on and i was like honestly the the full face that i think femmes get for day-to-day television is so much more involved than i think anyone realizes you sit for an hour and a half you come in two hours before everybody else you get less sleep you get just so that you can look normal or so that you can look quote unquote beautiful and with me they were trying to steer so far out of anything because i kind of naturally look like a cupid doll so they were trying to like steer out of especially 24 uh anything that would make me softer or like the minute you put mascara on me there's like bluebirds landing on

my shoulders so they didn't and i just had i think yeah exactly very yeah thank you it's my plug for voiceover yeah put my on a show please please please uh we can't leave the house please um but i was just yeah like they evened out my skin tone and then my eyes were truly just like i'm about to do a physical movement that's not going to read but just like of of black uh that was allowed to get messy that was allowed to get smudgy that whatever i never had mascara i never had any of the stuff that moves or runs or and i felt so much more because like i'm quite neurodivergent not being able to touch my own face like touched every 11 seconds is really hard for me and i was allowed to be messy and settled and lived in yeah and so

the goth part was actually fine because i felt better i felt less touched less observed less like i was never wearing things that were super tight to my body most of the time so i didn't like which i didn't know why that bothered me now i do because like as like a non-binary like trans masker person uh being dressed in like 2012 mall hot girl clothes was like taking strips off me that i didn't understand the part that was hard about the goth is that i had no real piercings at all so all of my piercings were fake and they hurt and my libretto piercing was a magnet right so if i yelled it went flying off at whoever i was talking to and we only had like three of them right oh my god so my favorite one was alfie and i were having some kind of confrontation in a scene

and i did an asia you know where asia like really like bites enunciates with her teeth right yeah we are not talking about this right now like that incredible incredible asia i still have them all i still have asia's been real quiet since that dropped that oh yeah come at us in the comments asia no asia come at me in my house because i want to hug you but uh but my my librette just went flying directly at alfie and in the middle of the scene he went and just caught it incredible and we just sat there in silence for a minute they should have kept that just west like fumbling like oh oh my god you're a failure you're fake this is not real but it happened so many times and then everyone would have to stop like someone lost a contact lens and hit the ground and look

for my librette piercing because we only had one you know what's kind of cool and is like art imitating life for something i don't know i keep saying that and i need to stop i'm flagging it for the producers stop letting me say art intimate imitating life put a counter don't stop put a counter at the bottom of the screen literally i think i've said it 10 000 times on the podcast and we've only made four episodes um but if they made how to get with murder now today i think that rebecca would be like a non-binary hondo like septum pierce dope as fuck person absolutely and they got that in casting you in the role you know which is is pretty crazy to think about that you were so ahead of the the game i had no idea you had no

idea. Right. I had no idea. I had no idea. I, I thought that, uh, that being a certain kind of woman on television was the only thing that was going to save me or legitimize me and that anywhere I could fit was just where I had to go. Wow. And that if I wasn't beautiful enough or I wasn't whatever enough that these were the people I was going to have to be because whatever was inside me only let people see me as this. And so I had to just do it. Yeah. Um, actually, can I share so i was gonna say i think that i remember things episodically in my life so like i remember being 14 so much better than i remember being like 19 and because i was only in one season of this show the my memories are so clear and so encapsulated so i remember like individual

conversations and jokes that you guys are probably like you know i had four more years of it like i worked my ass off 15 hours a day for four years I don't remember this but like once I remember Jack I was talking to you about an audition I had and you were like oh that sounds funny you excited and I was like yeah I just like I'm probably not gonna get it like I'm not the right kind of famous and I'm not the right kind of pretty and you have like you were like eating like you had a stack of stuff from crafty and you were just like on your way by and you were like yeah I don't really think being famous matters but like you're super pretty you're super hot and you just like walked away.

And I was like, oh, thanks, Jack. But it was just like a total moment of like, and that still comes back to me sometimes where I go, oh, maybe it's just you. Maybe it's just your brain. Like maybe your peers and friends and loved ones actually don't like feel this way. Isn't that weird though?

I can remember exactly where we were. That's wild. Yeah, Jack Flanagy saving lives. I'll take it. I don't remember that, but that's not, that does not come as any surprise, but I stand by it. stuff i'm gonna remember stuff that nobody does and it's it i it's because like that part of my

brain has not been washed out by a sort of an endless line of work and exhaustion so you got questions i got them i love that yeah i i mean it is we've touched on it a little bit but i do think that putting yourself on television which is maybe a dumb idea is it is it for me like it it just amplified any insecurity that I had and you know the industry does that in so many ways but you know having like I remember uh once someone uh at ABC said like oh it's so disorienting once you're on a hit television show because you know all of a sudden 10 million people are watching you every Thursday and you can't go to the grocery store and I was like yeah but like what's disorienting for me is like i can't be in my brain anymore yeah you know yeah um so i can deeply

relate to i think those feelings maybe that young katie felt but it's also equally i think beautiful to hear that in some way like putting on that those clothes as a departure from maybe other roles that you had played was was helping you to feel seen in another way it was who i wanted to be at 14 then i wasn't brave enough yeah for sure and then like i came back around to it like i am so much closer to rebecca now than i was when i was 23 like 23 to 30 was me floundering and then now i'm just like right back to which is why it was funny when everybody was so horrible about her they were like she's ugly she's this she's that and i was like baby you just wait because we are going back there and you're gonna eat that or you're gonna not like me and either way it's fine

Like that is the, I mean, when, when acting is at its best, you know, um, I feel like it, yeah, it can allow us to explore those different parts of ourselves that we just don't otherwise get to, you know, but obviously so much of it is just the commerce of the, of the business. And, and that usually gets subsumed, but I love that there's that moment that could have also been in like a, you know, like a high school, like production where you like got to play a character and you'd be like, oh, I get the same sort of thing out of this, you know? Yeah. You find stuff. It's just because the commerce section of it blows it up to such a degree of massive exposure. The stuff you find tends to stay quite private and for you. It feels like you have to take gold out of things and then hold them really close so that you remember who you are because it gets really disorienting. Like I remember, uh, during Carrie diaries, when I was like truly made of stem cells, I was like, I was a fetus born from a tube. I was so young. I was so young. I was nothing. I was nothing but collagen. Like there was not, there's not anything wrong with anybody at 21. There's not anything ugly about anybody at 21. I mean, there's not anything ugly about anybody ever really. But like, uh, and I remember texting my mom, I was eating Thai takeout off of a mini fridge box in a basement by myself on premiere night. And I, I was watching the show and I texted my mom. I might start crying. Why did everybody let me do this when I'm so ugly? oh my really I said why did they let me shoot this whole season why did they let me be on tv why didn't anybody tell me that I am so ugly like and now all of the rest of this is gonna air and

I'm just here and like everyone else looks right and why didn't you tell my mom who loves me I was like why didn't you tell me that I'm ugly why didn't you tell me and I still have the email that she wrote me back on my desktop and i've had it on my desktop since i was 20 years old wow because she was just like i've been thinking about what you said for a couple days and i really need to tell you these things because you're doing something scary and you're doing something hard and i want you to have this and i was like marie lopez shout out a plus a plus mom parenting also like me as a child exhausting if you don't figure out good parenting you'll just pass away like there's no i'm not man that really i'm not a starter kid i'm not a starter i want to give

baby katie a hug i mean i i get it though i i wonder if even revisiting the episodes recently like you did with your friends because i've found and matt and i have spoken about this that it's it's made me feel tender and gentle thoughts for for baby jack where i can like see me trying so hard and like remember what i felt like going through it and now yeah there's there's a big soft spot i think and that's something that matt and i have talked about and we'll talk about more but yeah and yeah along that note i'm curious we've kind of asked people this sometimes too is there is there any like words of wisdom that you would impart to yourself like sort of like katie shooting the pilot or you know going into it like that's a really hard one I was just not

I don't think I would have listened yeah whatever I said I don't think I would have listened my life was so high octane in a way that I mean I think we all experienced it like I remember we would all circulate at parties and just catch each other's eyes sometimes and like this is I'm bad without a visual medium I suck man because no one's gonna see this facial expression but we would like move past each other and like like animals being hunted for sports especially we would go by each other and just go please please please please help right yeah why am i here what are we doing yeah why is this person talking to me who are they holy shit that's denzel washington i have to go like we but like i don't think i would have been able to listen like if someone

said hey you're okay yeah you're okay it doesn't matter and you're okay i would have been like you're the only you don't know me you don't know my life you don't know the state like i don't know that i would have listened i think i had to just do it yeah that's that's a good answer the correct answer is you don't want to interfere with the space-time continuum and set a course of ripple effects that shatter the multiverse that's true i would have i would have gone up and gone hey i really like your hair and then left and they would have been like wow that like hot slightly masked person see what's happening in me right now and then i would have been gayer faster um exactly yeah some dude that kind of looked like me um i will say that watching re-watching last

night i haven't watched it in a long time full full breakdown transparency uh when i left the show i watched it often because it felt like it was my way of hanging on to a family that i felt like i had lost uh not through my choice yeah and it feels weird to be like part of a team of people where you're like yeah we show up to stuff together we take care of each other the world is really heavy coming towards us so we all got to push back and take care of each other and then suddenly i just wasn't there anymore um but i realized re-watching it last night i haven't watched it in like a decade or like maybe less maybe like eight eight years seven or eight years and i i feel that softness for both of you like i i was watching both of you and i was there while

you're doing the first time but i was watching both of you and i could remember you like talking about your scenes and talking about and like sometimes i would see one of you like have a feeling or do a thing and i would go oh that's just matt when he's sad or like that's just jack having a hard day and they they like managed to make that tv but like yeah i just had like such compassion and such like high protectiveness i almost like texted you both at 2 a.m and then i was like it's 2 a.m i'm not gonna be that person but i was almost like you can always text me at who i am i was really you're doing such a good job and i know it was hard but look at how good your work is remember when your face did this and they stayed on it for three and a half seconds

all right did you feel out of curiosity did you feel that sort of tenderness to yourself in watching it or is that more complicated yeah she feels like someone she feels like a sibling so much about me has changed and my understanding of myself i feel like i've grown into the older brother that i needed to take care of me a little bit whoa cool right isn't that weird i'm not all the way there but like you know if i had like a non-binary alien androge older sibling who was actually meant to be there the whole time going baby sit down like you're fine it's fine that's kind of so she feels like a different person but she doesn't feel lost or separate from me because she it feels like rebecca still sits on my ribs because i think she was a real person to me

so yeah i i like i don't like my acting very much but i the person that she was and the way she was trying and how scared she was it feels like it feels like she's still here now and i can go hey remember how fucking scared you were when they made you take your top off and i'm like yeah yeah like it's all kind of still you know i want to see like the for a millennial reference i want to see like the anamorph cover of you evolving into like hot trans mass yeah like shaggy poet Remember that time that you dropped an Animorph reference in the middle of the podcast? We just lost half of our

listeners. No one who was born in 1996 on knows what the fuck we're talking about, and I don't care. Animorphs, please sponsor us. Please sponsor us, Animorphs. Honestly, pinnacle of achievement. Yeah. I'm surprised of all the IP you're trying to make, the fact that

they've never had an Animorphs movie. I'm sure they have. I'm sure. Do you know why? i'm gonna tell you why right now because there is no reasonable way that will not traumatize a new generation of children to make a person morph into an armadillo without it becoming like a sleep paralysis demon are you kidding me right they don't make it a horror film yeah that's true i feel like i remember also hearing that actually the politics of them were extremely cool i can't remember yeah i hope it's not the exact opposite that i was remembering but i don't

think i'm not sure i really read them i had a friend one of my best friends growing up shout out to me yeah okay on the cover of one of them uh what yeah that's the sickest credit ever okay well are you kidding me we should the three of us should revisit this and maybe this is what how we collaborate again can we have another podcast no i'm saying we should write and make the anamorphs movie and make all the things we okay wait what would you anamorph into I want to say something cool but I think I'd be like uh don't like I don't know I I don't know I'm nervous I'm looking around I'm looking at like my little like animal statues and I'd be like a I don't know I'm panicking well you're naming that's fair you're smelling one thing

you're tasting one thing I think yeah what's one thing you can see what's one thing you can hear yeah that's right this is a cop-out but there's this meme that I love that was an anamorph meme of a person turning into a duck and it says, me when the waiter brings out the bread at the table. I know that one. Oh, that's so math-coded. Yeah. Maybe I'd be a sloth. I don't know.

Nice. What about you, Katie? I'm obviously a squid. Hell yeah. That's so tight. Right? Nice. Wow. The older I have gotten, there used to be a joke among my friends that I am some kind of deep-sea creature that's only supposed

to exist in the hadal zone. and uh it turns out that all of my health problems are centered around basically what would happen if you tried to pull a giant squid up and make it live on land and it used to be a gag and now it is so consistent that my doctors are laughing at me so there is a chance that i was never meant to be up here wow well i need to ask more questions yeah we can talk about that when we're not trying to talk about a television show we were sure yeah yeah that's fair that's What I'm gathering from this is that we just need to hang out more,

but it's fine. Totally. Anyway, How to Get Away with Murder was a great show that we were all on. That's right. Well, something that you brought up that we skated over, but I do think it's worth reiterating is,

and a lot of people on Reddit have asked this, where they're like, oh, were you guys actually friends? Because people would see us out at dinners and hanging out outside of set, but that's not always the case with Cass. And I brought this up, but I do think it's because we were all quite young

and we, it was, God, I'm going to say it again, our imitating life where we were on this show. Can we start a counter? Is there any way that we can get a graphic up? 10,001. Oh my God, I'm fired. I'm firing myself from my own podcast. If you quit, can I?

Yeah, you can take over. Only if you cosplay as me. I, number one, I will. number two uh very little would change number three i think i have a pretty solid you impression so i think perfect great yeah but yeah no i do think that like you know the characters on the show are going through these like surreal larger than life uh experiences and we were doing that as human beings and to your which i think maybe we can talk about a little bit now but like you did leave you you were ran off the show i was dispatched you were dispatched and i remember

how traumatic that was for us as a cast like losing not only your your great sexy talent but like you as a beautiful friend and human being you know um so yeah if you want to talk about that i think we can we can talk about that now and i don't know maybe we'll add it later or spoilers spoilers ahead listeners dni yeah if you haven't seen the first season of how to go with murder first of all why are you here second of all dni my my tumblr ass what's dni yeah do not interact jack get on the internet actually no jacket off the internet no i do not need to be more on the internet i'm very close to the sun right now how those wax wings feeling buddy Um, no, I gotta tell you the only safe place for me on the internet. I have burnt out

completely on media and show business. Like I still do my job all the time. I cannot engage in any, like part of the reason that I don't keep up with people that I've worked with outside of like texting and talking is because if people post about work on Instagram, it like chips away at my human bones. So if someone posts about where, and it's not their fault, right? People post about because they do i post about work but to keep my relationship with myself and with them healthy i have to mute people who post about work all the time and then i have to just talk to them like a person otherwise i get pulled into the the form and the function of social media which is evil backup tumblr reference uh matt there is a famous tumblr post where people are talking about things

that radicalize them and someone was like i was radicalized by anamorphs so you're right oh wow love that also when you said dni i think the first thing that comes to mind is do not resuscitate but yeah literally i thought the same thing and then i was like i don't want to bring it up because right okay yeah i have very funny stories about my dad picking a dnr which it turns out he didn't pick if you want any i'm in like the abbott costello uh zone of my father dying because uh i am i was primarily responsible for my father so he and i were in like a marx brothers movie together just the two of us for our entire lives and so i am very able to talk about it without but uh uh uh reiterate specifically the question you asked me speaking

of dying speaking of dying yeah i mean i can speak about that experience it's it's funny that you say that jack because i remember being so shell-shocked that i wasn't sure what anybody else's reaction was i didn't know how anybody else felt about it i didn't know the only person i knew was alfie because we were such good friends that i even though i wasn't allowed to tell anybody i called him immediately right uh and he was like oh we're you weren't supposed to tell anyone oh god that's so hard no i mean i don't know that they said that specifically but they were kind of like yeah like probably don't like i'm sure like you know pete's a sweet man and a real person so i'm sure he wasn't like don't tell but like yeah yeah i wasn't well so even if i could have i don't know

that i knew how right um because i was embarrassed i felt like humiliated and terrified and i only found out i want to say like a week before we started shooting the finale wow yeah so i had spent you know months being told welcome to your new family welcome to television uh here's how you buy a house without anybody stalking you get ready for what's coming this show's gonna run forever like get yourself in order because this is your meal ticket and you're gonna need to ride it like you're gonna need to know what to do here there are skill sets needed of you uh maintain your relationships do a good job and then it just wasn't for me yeah yeah and i didn't know why and and i mean realistically but i think a lot of people don't understand about tv is that

there often is no why like it's not personal it's not but your brain goes did i do something did i say something to someone was i bad especially you at that age yeah with all the insecurity already i couldn't believe that i was on tv at all let alone off tv yeah um but yeah i remember when i told alfie he was like are you kidding and he was like okay hold on i'm gonna be there in like 10 minutes he just came to my house immediately wow yeah i think when pete told me he asked me if i could come into the office and hang for a minute and we had like you know a lovely rapport good relationship he's a nice guy and um he just said i'm really really really sorry uh i won't say exactly what he said because it talks about the how the sausage is made but he was basically just

like we don't have another choice right i i don't want this to be happening i don't want and you know my brain at 3 a.m when i'm like pulling a jack goes that's not true that's not true you did something you right of course he's going to say that to you you're so naive you're so stupid how could you believe that you hadn't done something they just didn't like you you said the wrong thing when the wrong person was in the room whatever but realistically he was just like yeah we we don't have another option we don't have another choice there's a plot point that needs to happen we we've like thought every direction we can and we we just you just have to leave the show we had him on and he spoke a little bit about that where he like he wrote the

pilot just as you know a tv pilot like a single episode and then once they went into production he kind of had this like oh shit moment of oh other people are gonna have to die like we're i mean me and the other writers yeah we're gonna have to like decide who is dying how to get away with like several continuous murders yeah right yeah that's right yeah that's right well that's i was saying to my friends last night because i have a lot i'm blessed with many friends who know absolutely nothing about how my job works and so they they swing back and forth between thinking it's ridiculous and uh a hellhole which is fun for me because because i'm a court jester at best so um god you'd be such a good court jester that's the nicest thing you've ever said you'd be

incredible yeah i'm a bard it's my job okay yeah but uh can you if i ever write a book can you put that on my book jacket even if it's not applicable just like yeah and just like nothing to do with the book no yeah yeah yeah yeah no if it connects to the book in any way you're not allowed to then you have to find something else yeah i'll find it yeah i'll put it on your tombstone or i was just about to say that fuck on your afterlife tree or however you want to be they would have been such a good courteous actually no you know what's going to be in my tombstone this is going to be another creepy one where you're like katie why do you remember this but please remember that like this was a very formative time for me and i was traumatized so it really do you or you don't

remember this at an airport on the way to atlanta we sat down to eat at a shitty airport restaurant and you looked at the menu and you turned to me and you were like jack early morning quiet like you hadn't said shit to anybody for like 20 days or something and you turned to me and you went oh they have soup here katie you can eat what because no listen and he's right i'm a soup bitch i'm a soup bitch i will eat soup all the time i will eat soup anywhere i will if i could have soup for breakfast i'd have super breakfast am i anxious am i sick am i exhausted is like it is my iron so low that i can't manage eating anything am i whatever soup i'm good six o'clock in the morning no no affect whatsoever just like

dead pan jack katie you can eat here they have soup i love that because i i imagine we were going to atlanta to do press so i'm sure that i like you ordered soup and i probably ordered like a bloody mary to get on the flight because i was anxious yeah amazing yeah yeah yeah i think we were probably going to scad right yeah what it's called yeah yeah yep yeah no i remember completely and people in my life now still go oh they have soup katie you can eat here and they don't know you incredible like that it's true well i'm gonna put that on your team stone then they have soup here you can eat yeah katie they have soup here you can eat and it's true yeah but yeah no i found out that i was leaving the show probably about a week before the episode started filming and it

broke my heart it's part of why i was actually i was a little bit nervous about doing this podcast i don't i think i had i thought i had to pretend that it didn't yeah for like years and years i thought because i thought it would be read as like oh you just wanted to be famous you wanted to make it longer on that show you wanted to and i was like no i was just there from the beginning and like yeah i that was my family that was my life that was my you know and no one could tell me why which like since in the industry i have learned that so many shitty things happen and it's arbitrary um but at the time i just felt so i also was 24 like i wasn't equipped to understand the world um and i remember okay this is a good story i don't think i've told anybody

the day that we had the table read where everybody found out I was like oh I'm about to go do a table read where all of my colleagues and loved ones and co-workers find out that I'm no longer on this program and that day was the first half of the day was a sex scene and then I went and did the table and then we got to finish the sex scene after lunch oh my god oh god oh my god uh i uh for reasons now that make more sense to me as i've grown into myself um hate those this was probably pre-intimacy coordinator as well oh my god yeah yeah definitely yeah uh yeah i didn't didn't not didn't like my body but like felt so unsafe in my body felt so unsafe expressing sexually felt so wrong and confused now makes sense but like just like had to be on

a half an anti-anxiety just to walk into the room to get it done like no one's fault you know uh and so i thought that i was being truly the most unhinged version of myself that's ever existed and i brought i'm such a like wiener i brought a single glass of wine in a kombucha to work and i was like i was like katie you are off the deep end who are you like what's happening to you and so i uh drank it before it's also a glass of wine right but like my grandma's chinese i don't have the gene alcohol is not good for you so i drank it before the table read just so that i could deal with everybody realizing and looking at me because the minute we read it it's at the very end of the script and everyone just looked up at me like it was a joke

or like right and then like no one clapped and i just wanted to disappear into a hole forever and sink to the bottom of the ocean uh and then there's no time to talk because everybody has to go right back to work and so people kind of hugged me and were like oh my god oh gee i was i think alfie walked me back down to work because he's a champ and then i had to just go right back into the scene where i'm like aha i'm fucking your boyfriend and i'm evil and and lenny platt who is the sweetest man on earth we like did the rest of the scene i remember he was planking on top of me between uh getting direction and i could just feel his shoulders shaking because he was planking for so long and they were readjusting something and i was like lenny

we've known each other for like a year and a half you can lie on my body it's okay i trust you he was like oh my god thank you and so we just kind of broke later yeah sure and then and i like brushed my teeth and like i didn't want to be gross to anybody and then at the end of the day i was like hey i gotta admit something to you like i was like a little bit drunk like this was a really hard day for me i was miserable like i'm so sorry if i was like slow or if it took me a second to pick something up i didn't mean to interrupt your day and he said no no i i know i could kind of like I could like taste it a little bit and I was like oh my god I was mortified I'm so sorry you have to understand this isn't something normal for me I just literally didn't know how to get through

this and he went no no I was just my I felt kind of bad because I thought you know if you were like having a bad day or if you were having a drink I thought maybe you'd share and I was like oh no it's not I was like it wasn't a fun time I like I had a cocktail at lunch and I didn't invite you I'm I'm like in a horrific spiral but you're the cutest thing that's ever lived yeah and he was like he was like I'm so sorry you had a bad day and I was like you're a an angel on earth like yeah I mean it is it that is like I'm I am shocked to hear that because that is so out of character for you but it it totally I mean it is a weird especially like that that moment of like all of us looking at the table read it's like what am I am I supposed to laugh smile like yeah like oh I

i lost my job uh you know it's such a it's such a bizarre yeah it's such a weird job therapists that are like at craft services that are just there you could just like go into the room with them for 15 minutes on a break or something like that that would be pretty tight that would be cool like 97 people have touched me today right yeah yeah like i'm overstimulated every 40 seconds three people come at me with their hands coming directly towards my face and my job is to stay still and not think. I just saw a play here in New York and I found out a friend of mine is in the cast and I found out that the theater company is providing therapists for them because it's a, you know, it's such an intense show, but yeah, I think that I think on set

therapists would be, it would be really cool. I would take it. You'd never find me anywhere else. I'd just be in a room somewhere going, and then my dad always said, which I know he doesn't mean to be belittling were you in therapy at this point in your life uh yeah wow that's yeah i didn't i don't think i started therapy until season three or four which yeah we i know is literally laugh out loud um and jack and i had the same therapist for a while as well yeah i introduced jack to his therapist yeah oh that's so you though mammagory like saving lives right and left i remember i remember uh our shared therapist when we met he said he's like i don't anticipate this happening but if you and matt ever had a falling out i of course would have to drop you as a client because

matt was i was working with matt first and i immediately was like you're gonna fucking choose sides how like this theoretical not existing you know falling out between now and i i got so like triggered by it and i was like oh maybe i maybe i do need this do you have specialist boy syndrome i have specialist boy syndrome where i'm like if i haven't won you over more than anyone else possibly could to the point where i'm indispensable but also you don't need to perceive me all the time i've lost yeah that's tough as an actor my most recent therapist was like hey buddy not everybody has that okay oh you're like oh cool yeah great yeah like please please witness me intimately but know me not at all and i was like yeah oh any favorite memories from making

the show or any scenes were particularly challenging to shoot one of my favorite memories is asia not being able to say the word burglary yeah she has a line where she says uh they think we're burglaring our professor's house and none of us could say it and she kept saying burglaring and then she and someone alfie probably alfie had a big fight about whether or not burglar ring as a word right a hundred percent elfie there's no shot it was anyone other than elfie actually burglary actually burglary come on now asia uh but no i remember for many months burgle burgle burglary and burglar ring and burglar ring was was uh we said it all the time known turnover asked what was your favorite scene to shoot with the yeah the the usernames in the

subreddit are fire but they want to know what your favorite uh Wes and Rebecca scene was oh my god all of them all of them listen I don't care what anybody says now that the series is done and it turns out that neither of us were as bad as anybody thought couple of the year baby I was here for us all the way we're like weird lanky dudes who no one likes like I'm so in um I just I thought it was great what are my favorite that's really hard because we spent so much time in extremist um this is gonna sound really gross because it's like a post-coital situation but him uh talking about how he moved to a small town and because he's black everybody wanted him to be good at basketball um and how he always wanted to adopt a dog and how like this sweet neurodivergent

man knew that he needed to tell her more about himself and so he just lay in bed and listed every single fact he could think about himself out loud um and i think it's the first time you hear her laugh the way i actually laugh when i'm comfortable because normally um my acting laugh is like quite forced because i'm not laughing um yeah i don't know i think it's just really unguarded and really gentle and really sweet uh between between the uh behind the scenes and most of my scenes with alfie was us giving each other so much shit it was almost impossible to uh to lock back in which was great yeah yeah yeah that's my favorite western rebecca scene great yeah i can't i can't wait to see it i know me too i'm like god this sounds like a great show um i uh and also you

know i also want to say that i remember from watching back in the day but even watching the small amounts that we've watched so far to re-watch that you are so good and you are so talented you are a really beautiful wonderful person in all the ways inside and out and it's very true and i hope that you can receive it yeah because it's very true yeah i said this in our what because we recapped the pilot and i you know i'm taking notes because i have not seen the show before and it's overwhelming and stimulating and all those things but i was taking notes and the first thing i wrote when you come on screen is i believe katie completely um like you're you are so good and yeah i just yeah i want to echo everything matt said because i like it's something i'm

looking forward to in the show like in watching the show as an audience member for the first time is like oh did you not watch it at all no no i've never seen it oh yeah yeah dude i know okay i'm gonna put you in the in the katie sen's voice notes rotation hardcore because you're gonna about some stuff's about to happen to you totally man i and like i my my ex who's like a dear dear friend of mine she was visiting me in new york and she was like i think i should watch the first episode with you just as like an emotional support yeah friend and so it's me just like you know clutching her and um but it but it i think my all of my anxieties and all those things that that were i was worried about in watching it were completely eclipsed by like getting to

see my friends do what they do best yeah and and knowing like oh we were there all this time together and spent all these hours and now i get to actually like see the thing that we made together and it's it's been such a treat um even just watching the first two so i i just want to say i'm excited to watch the rest of your your performance making me cry in an audio medium is like this is entrapment both of you had to tell me you were cops earlier right let your tears fall onto the microphone so the audience can feel yeah no kidding hold on fully um thank you yeah you got it oh yeah uh i'm really really bad at accepting compliments this is actually what i was thinking when i was watching it uh shut up uh yeah it's not i mean it's not what i see about me when i

watch it but that's you know obviously i feel that way uh i was thinking about because the people that i was watching it with have never seen it before and they don't know you guys so they were like talking about people and what they thought they were like and whatever and i spent the whole time because i was obviously focused focused on you guys because i knew i was going to talk to you um and that's what i was thinking about like i was i was anytime uh matt said something i went i need you to know that they just let matt roll for like 20 seconds totally yeah every new thing he said was so much funnier than the last thing he said that they just left him alone yeah um and especially i was like it's especially funny because matt is uh naturally a person with such a

a depth of compassion and courage and feeling and sensitivity and this dude that he seems to play often is like such a hilarious parody of a guy that he is not um and so the fact that they just give him the ball and let him run as like a turbo wiener is so fun and so funny um that was great i camera what you did there's just something i don't want to do it because it's loud but there was something where you went yo in the background of something and you were like in the far background so your little head just popped up over everybody else and i was like this is fucking classic uh thank you and then jack i was just you're very very welcome i got a million of them anytime if either of you are having a bad day i i got you um yeah and then yeah and then jack i was

just like you can just see every part of jack's soul whether or not he wants you to the minute his eyeballs like all jack has to do is blink and everybody goes oh my god and just wants to climb directly inside and figure out what's going on and it's and the fact that you like didn't know yeah and and we're so like i remember you'd be like oh i'm doing this scene and like i don't know i'm just really tired and i don't know if i have you know this much in me and it's going to be really exhausting and then it comes out and it's just like the most heartbreaking like disordered human thing it's just so intense i i appreciate i that reminds me of speaking to liza while and who plays bonnie and we all love but i remember i think it might it's the

second or the third episode where i like show up at oliver's door and i'm like i'm breaking down and sobbing and uh i remember liza she must have watched it when it aired and she came up to me on set and she's like yo dog like you're fucked and i was like why what and she was like now that they know you can do that that is all your that is all you are going to do for the next six seasons and i was like oh no i need a therapist no i watched that last night i watched that last night and i was just like this is this is so close to the bone for jack in terms of like being a highly emotional person who is willing to use the parts that feel like they might break for his work and like it's not that he's not acting but like the fuel he has is so potent and it's so brave

that he is using it and i like so few people are gonna know how brave what he's doing is right now oh thanks man and it just like knocked me the fuck out i was like yeah i was just like sitting there crying my friends were like so these are your friends right and i was like yeah oh that's that feels like a really good place for us to i think you know we're we'll if if you're open to it we're gonna we're gonna bug you have send us voice notes or come back on because this was like i feel like the tip of the iceberg and but such a good conversation and i appreciate your openness and honesty and how beautiful and hot you are both in your face and soul um that's my tombstone never mind that's my tombstone but there has to be a little picture

of jack underneath it yeah with a like a word bubble yeah yeah yeah yeah um i will come back on the show literally anytime you'll have me i'll come back with anybody else i have so much yap about this program there are so few things that i want to yap about these days like i my own partners can't get me to talk about like normal things um one of them really needs to talk about the ottoman empire often and i will literally just put them in another room and close the door it is tight anybody else would really appreciate this person i am so burnt out that i'm like talk about the ottoman empire on the balcony um but uh but yeah i mean if you'll have me if you have room yeah fancier people jesus fucking christ i'm in i'm like you're the

fanciest so yeah it's been such a joy yeah it's been such a joy to have you on and i know you mentioned you're a little nervous coming into it and like i said it's just it's a good time it's you know it's nice to i mean it's nice to get to reminisce to feel nostalgia to and also have something to talk about other than the state of the world so you know i love you we love you and we appreciate you and yeah i'm excited to see your work on the show again me too yeah thank you oh i love you thanks for listening bye everybody bye everyone hey guys it's jack you may remember earlier in the episode that i promised to include a voice note from katie if they found their character breakdown from their audition and they did and

boy did they deliver with this voice note so i hope you enjoy it as much as i did please enjoy katie's dulcet tones so through some truly torturous ancient email chain archaeology i was not only able to find my initial breakdown character wise for rebecca but i also discovered that i apparently almost didn't tape for this at all because i as i so often am was extremely sick the week that I was supposed to get it in. And I'm looking at a message from me to my managers saying that the only way I could get it done by Friday is if they don't mind that I look like a dead person. I guess they didn't. So by the grace of many and by the skin of my teeth, she's. All right. So here's the girl. Role Rebecca. All ethnicities,

early to mid-20s edgy pierced with a haunted vulnerable quality about her Rebecca is a local Philly girl and Wes's next-door neighbor in their rundown apartment building she is indifferent to the point of rudeness when Wes politely asks her to turn down her music late one night Kate sidebar like the tone was polite the face was passive-aggressive like we all know public school English guys don't give me that politely asked her to turn down music she doesn't attend the university, but instead bartends at the college pub serving shots to the spoiled frat boys who are constantly hitting on her, which in and of itself should justify murder. That's my feelings on it. Rebecca had to make her own way in the world and fend for herself, which has caused her

to develop some rough edges. She also seems a bit elusive, mysterious, and fragile in a way that is intriguing and beautiful. But she is also apparently having a relationship with Logan O'Reilly, later renamed Griffin, the football player boyfriend of a young university woman who has gone missing. This breakdown makes me seem so much hotter and more interesting than I knew myself to be at 24. And now that I know that I was insanely sick for this tape, I am even more grateful that they wanted me on this show at all. That's it for today's show. Thanks for joining us and see you next week for a new episode. They drop every Thursday and don't be late because the professor doesn't like to wait. How We Got Away With Murder is an original production by

Podcast Nation. Produced by James Brown and Alicia Panier. Audio production by Miles Carter. Original music by Elefante. Thank you.