HR BESTIES - Corporate Ghosting

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Incentive trip gone wrong.  Cringe corporate speak: Boots on the ground. Hot topic: ghosting in the hiring process. Our ghosting stories.  Why you may be getting ghosted. Don’t take it personally! What does this indicate from a company culture perspective? How not to ghost a prospective employee.  Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  Circle Back Initiative: https://circlebackinitiative.com/ This episode is sponsored by SixFifty - https://www.sixfifty.com/ and head to sixfifty.com/besties for more information. We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery:  Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR:  Instagram • Threads • Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But I think in HR, you'd also say it's paved with holiday parties and sales incentive trips. So a workplace I know years ago had a sales incentive trip. And I wouldn't exactly call it a trip because it was more of a 20-hour excursion. And so it was whatever team had done the best would get this bus trip to go to a casino and back overnight. There were no hotel rooms.

Oh my God. I was just, just an overnight, you know, go in the afternoon, come the next morning. So no hotel rooms, which is a benefit at times because the road to hell definitely is paved with corporate hotel rooms. Yes. But so, you know, party all night. Like you're going hard.

Going real hard. Real hard. But so not only is it a casino, but you know, when you go there, you need money to spend at the casino. And so to make it matter, on the bus ride up, they did trivia. Like, trivia, oh, do this and get like a couple hundred bucks. Oh, wow. Yeah, like, so what kind of trivia?

Maybe like, you know, good email subject lines. Like, what percentage to say? No, no, no, no, no work exactly related trivia. More specific trivia about members of the team and some personal aspects. Ooh, sounds like an HR nightmare. Truly, truly, and legal, probably. And one of the questions, for example, was

how many people has, insert name, slept with at the company? Oh my gosh, no. And of course because this is you know groups of rowdy people who are... Everyone's drinking on the bus. Everyone's drinking so you're not in the mindset to say oh excuse me can I see the handbook who I can raise a concern about this. Exactly. I'd like to report this. 12, 7. It was like 50 something was was was the answer. Impressive. I don't wait But they were real answers really like they did go girl or boy

I like the fact that you'd ask that question. Yeah, well and that you'd answer as well Yeah, that you'd answer it right at that the person would answer and that they'd thought about this ostensibly before the drinking started to be prepared for this trivia Question and so I think that think that was just one example. And so whoever got that went and went to the tables and did all of those things. And so I remember picking somebody up the next morning who would come back and it literally looked

like the hangover prequel of these ragamuffin people coming off the bus. But I think when you think about some of these incentive trips and the like, HR, clear your calendar anytime. Just look at the schedule. In addition to the holiday schedule, you have your own separate HR schedule, which is what are incentive trips? What are our holiday parties?

And just clear your schedule and block out, I'm going to have shit to do. I just have an open door, an open email, and I'm going to need to open up some reviews and investigations on the back end of this. Where can I get invited to one of those? Like if you have any sales incentive trips in your organization and I don't know, you just want to buddy, like reach out to me. That just sounds so much fun. In college, no wait, were you all in sororities in college? No.

I was not. Okay. But Ashley, were you in a sorority in college? No. I was not. Okay. But Ashley, were you in a sorority? I already know the answer. Yeah, I do too. I do too. Try Delta. Yeah, that's right.

Try Delta. So fair enough. But so we had a saying called sugar baker. And so if you were out at a party and someone was getting a little out of whack, you'd tap them and say sugar baker. And that was like sorority of whack you tap them and say sugar baker and that was like Civil already speak for like get your shit together, and this was pre social media days thankfully, but it's from designing women. Yeah And so sugar baker and so it's basically like hey bitch

Here yourself together and so feral as fuck But of course when you like it you know when someone's at the point that they're acting a little out of control And you say sugar baker to them. They're probably gonna like half the time. They're gonna argue back with you don't you make a man you know? But I do think as we talk about this a service that we could be providing as your HR besties It's for these sugar bakers instead of trips. We will come along and be your professional sugar bakers Getting what we might actually get out of control alongside you. We will. But we're still sugar bakers. That's the reason ATOR's not invited, because we'll sugar baker the shit out of you. Only if you ask, though.

Only if you want sugar bakers. Yeah, I want. Yeah. Right? I always volunteer myself as a wing woman, because I'm a great wing woman. Yeah, I love it. Oh yeah, because I'd have a friend who'd be like, oh my gosh, she's so cute or he's so cute or whatever. And I'm like, oh, let me go up to him for you.

Let's bring him over, you know what I mean? I'm that person, you know what I mean? You can serve a variety of functions. Or I pretend to be a wife, or I pretend to be a girlfriend or whatever you need. Just give me an eye. I think that's called an escort. No, no, no, not like that. I mean, yes, I mean, technically, for definition, but not

like that. I'm just saying, you know, if someone comes at you and you're not interested, you know, you just give me a little look and I'm going to come up as your friend and pretend we're together. You know what I mean? I'm gonna- Well, this is, certainly will, I mean, we will. Okay, basically I'm for hire or anything. I mean, that's- Sugar baker, sugar baker. Sugar baker, sugar baker. Oh gosh, sugar baker for sure.

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Ask your doctor or visit Robelsis.ca. Order up for Robelsis. To kick off our meeting, thank you so much for joining us on HR Besties today. I'd like to do just a quick run through of the agenda of our meeting here. We're going to do some cringe corporate speak to start and Jamie's going to take the lead on that. And then we're going to shift into our hot topic for today, which is all about ghosting and the hiring process. Oh my God.

Ooh, I had to do like a ghost set. You're like the 90s. Oh, you're like Dracula. Yeah, you walk up to the house like jump scare. Yeah, exactly. But that's what it feels like sometimes. Oh my God. Jump scare the way people are treated.

It is. And so I know this is always a hot topic across social and in our personal feels like sometimes. Sure does. Oh my God. Jump scare the way people are treated. It is. It is. And so I know this is always a hot topic across social and in our personal and professional lives, ghosting and the hiring process. So we'll dive deep into that. And because we do, of course, have a hard stop, well, Jamie does anyway, you know, we'll do our questions and comments at the end and then, you know, part ways for this day.

And so let's go ahead and jump right into it. Jamie, our cringe corporate speak. Yes. So our cringe corporate speak of the day is boots on the ground. And I will say that specifically when I was working for a company where we had consultants, they loved corporate jargon, but they loved boots on the ground because we were talking like high level, transmitting information down to a bunch of different facilities, right? So we were talking about the boots on the ground,

you know, those that are actually working in the facilities as the HR director, the HR. So that word was used so much. And I just, for some reason it bothered me. It actually what it means, the origin of it is the ground troops who are on active service in a military operation, which I get. But in the military, yes. Yeah. Yeah. In the military. But like, but let's not pretend we're at war. Yeah. Exactly. No. Like, we're not going to war. So can we maybe say something different? And I don't know, what else would we call it? I mean, getting involved in our person on the facility.

Have people present to get a sense of actually what the F is happening in the real workplaces and what the business is about. Again, a little longer. But it is, I actually, the military references in a corporate workplace. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And again, I think people say things sometimes and they're not thinking about it. So we'll meet you where you are.

And so if you think about these things, you know, there are veterans in the workplace. It can be a real transition. They require support. Veterans are a fantastic source for your candidate pools. It also at times can require that training of what a corporate environment is like. And so to adopt or take those terms, one, I think, can be really traumatizing for those there are members, whether it's military, whether it's firefighters. There's an episode of Working Class podcast, Feinsteiger, Attorney Page was on it, Page Sparks.

And they talked about in the workplace, when you talk to members of the military or firefighters, and the questions people ask sometimes. Oh, I know. Have you ever killed somebody? Yeah, did you ever, have you ever lost anybody? Ridiculous. People's trauma is not your entertainment or source of conversation in the workplace. Have you ever killed somebody? Yeah, oh my god. Have you ever lost anybody? Ridiculous.

People's trauma is not your entertainment or source of conversation in the workplace. And again, sometimes people just don't realize that, so we're here to let you know. But the boots on the ground, things like that, when you get into those military terms, being respectful of those people's experiences, but also not pretending like generally what you're doing. Your SaaS software solution. Is life or death, right? We're on the front lines.

I promise you it's not that serious. Cold war. Yeah. Please. Capitalism. It's like war. Disruption, disruption of the marketplace is very important. I appreciate it if you make my life easier

to dry my hair with my smart hairdryer. I appreciate that. I can wait six easier to dry my hair with my smart hairdryer. I appreciate that. I can wait six months for that. That's fine. I can pause and wait on that technology. We don't need to pretend like we are saving actual lives. So true. It's so true.

But you make an excellent point of just respecting people's experiences and being mindful of the language in the workplace because some can absolutely be triggering right so when you reflect on that you know just it's wow okay oh maybe I can change how you know I present myself present what I'm trying to convey. You know Lee has the best collection of non-military boots. Oh I know.. You've possibly never seen. So if you see her socials in hers, she has amazing footwear. Even on our HR Besties little, our main page,

she's got some kick-ass boots on. Yeah, look at HRBesties.com. It's, well, it's helpful when you're out for hire. I was waiting for the tie in there, you know. She's in the trenches. You're talking about tying people up, so that's fine. Me and my hooker boots, for the tie in there. She's in the trenches. You're talking about tying people up. Oh man, me and my hooker boots. Pro sex work.

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with 650's seamless solutions. All right, well, that's great. Thank you so much for covering the important topic of Cringe Corporate Speak, Jamie. But let's go ahead and pivot over to our hot topic for today. And that's everything ghosting in the hiring process. Like collective big sigh. I think we've all been there.

I have been there and I have been there and I have been there so hard because what is so funny is one of my besties, my best friend, his name is Mike. Shout out to Mike. I love you. Our names aren't Mike. I know, my bad. But this is like my 20 year- My name's Curtis. This is my, I know, right? Exactly.

Yeah, but you know, when he and I were going through the hiring process in college, you know, we still talk about 20 years later, being ghosted in a lot of those interviews. And we still, shout out to a tech brand, ah, you know, we still talk about them and Heather at that brand for saying, you are the best and you're coming on board for that internship and we absolutely love you.

And we're still waiting for that offer letter 20 years later. Damn you Heather if you're listening. For real, HH, that's Heather. But we still think about her. And so maybe she'll apologize over email, but we're not waiting. Automated. Yeah, I know. We didn't even get that, you know? But you know, especially when you're young, those things really stick with you because

that was like our first time ever being ghosted, right? And so it's like, oh my God, but just know, my whole point of sharing that story is that it's personal. So if like this hurts you when you're ghosted, totally normal, like to personalize it, right? Because it absolutely hurts. But just know that this isn't a new phenomenon, okay? This isn't because of, you know, the internet's, you know, and all of this. I mean, this has been going on since the beginning of people getting jobs and hiring.

Yes. You know, it just looked different or felt different. So I'm talking 20 years ago being ghosted by like snail mail. I'm still, I went to, when I was in law school and I interviewed for a law firm in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I drove there. I drove there, I mean, I'd had multiple interviews with my final interview.

I went and spent a full day there, drove there, drove back, you know. I'm still waiting to find out whether I'm getting, I'm just going to show up one day and ask if they have my computer ready. They did pay my mileage, thankfully. So I guess that, you know, that's, that's, that's, so at least I got that. Well, yeah, at least you got a little bit of money. We're going on almost 20 years and still waiting. See how it sticks, like it sticks with you, right?

It does, but people say, We're going on almost 20 years and still waiting. See how it sticks? Of course. Like it sticks with you, right? It does. But people say, what is wrong with people? Plenty. Yeah. Plenty. People be peoplein'. People be peoplein'.

And when it comes to the hiring process, it feels so personal because it is. To you. But people say, it's like the secret. Put it out there in the universe. People will say, like, it's like the secret. Put it out there in the universe. People will say, oh, you'll hear from me. Oh, you'll hear from us by Friday. Constantly people are overestimating their own ability to get... To do anything.

Yeah, to get alignment, to get decisions, to get these things. And when you're interviewing and hiring people, I think there is this thought that there's this collection of Mary Poppins candidates that are literally waiting. And so if you just wait a little longer, this person will emerge in the hiring pool and you don't want to miss out. And so it's just these delays. And the play devil's advocate here,

because I have been on the flip side of that. So I've been in HR department one several times, and HR department one means I was also doing recruiting. So any given job, let's say I have 10 jobs posted and that's a pretty small rec load, but remember when you're HR Department 1, I was over several facilities. You can have up to 200 candidates for one position. So yes, there's going to be candidates that are ghosted. And it's not a reflection of you. Now, one thing that I was very adamant on is if you got an interview from me, whether it was a phone screen or a face-to-face interview,

I was going to send you for a phone screen. It was the automated one out of our system. But for a face-to-face interview, I was going to send you an email. Now everyone else, no, I'm sorry. You're going to get, once the job closes, the rec closes in the system, you're going to get the automated email that says thank you so much. Now are some of those timely? I can say absolutely not. So for instance-

Like three years later, like for real. Yeah. timely, I can say absolutely not. So for instance, Three years later, for real. Yeah, we had a position that was almost like an evergreen position because it was high turnover always. It was a front desk employee. So, you know, that position, that rec was hardly ever had to be closed. So people might be still waiting. I never even reviewed their resume, for instance. But it's not intentional, know that. Some companies are better about it than other companies as far as providing you feedback

or even just a simple email like, hey, we've moved forward with another candidate, or even like, hey, you were great. We happen to move forward with another candidate. Do you mind if I keep your resume on file for future positions? But do know that recruiters typically, they have heavy rec loads. They're like 30 plus rec loads and each job has such a high volume of applicants that they can't get to everyone. Now, is it shitty?

Absolutely. I'm not disagreeing. I've been ghosted myself. It sucks, but I've also been on the flip side so I understand why it happens and I'm not saying it's okay either. But see what you described to me is not ghosting like just not hearing back after you apply to something to me isn't ghosting. What ghosting is is when I actually am starting to create a quote relationship with an organization. We have a conversation, I've been interviewed, Heather promising me an offer letter is coming,

I'm still waiting for that fucking offer 20 years later for that internship in that place, you know what I'm saying? Like to me, that's what ghosting is, right? Cause it's like the dating, it's like the same as when you're dating someone and they just don't respond. I agree, I mean, I think some of these steps, and I say, even in recent, and I'll say this.

If you've been ghosted, which is probably everybody, know that, one, you dodged a bullet with who you're working with, especially if you're in that process and they're not getting back to you. Because that's when people are going to ideally show you their best. And that's not someone you're going to want to work with. But when I've been ghosted, it has hurt deeply,

like cried, been anxious. because when you get excited, you know, you may be telling family members friends And so then people are asking if you heard back from the know that yeah, sorry Like yeah still wait, you know, it's this these it's these ripple effects of these conversations So know that hiring managers, especially as people are I agree in that process? But no, I would not be sitting here today on this podcast if I've gotten some of those jobs that I thought were my destiny and was my dream job and then it was soul crushing when I did not get it.

And one in particular that I really was like, this is it. I was so excited. I was reaching out to people doing these things. And it was like the toddler that was learning to swim, where just one more step. Okay, well, we're gonna have one more step. Like, oh, yeah, that's fine. Whatever you need, whatever you need,

because now I'm feeling like it's gonna win a prize. And when I found out I didn't get it, which was through somebody else who knew the person that did get it, and God found out a couple days before, I was every emotion, so pissed. But you know what, it was the best thing that happened to me. And so you may not feel like that in the moment, but you probably will look back at some point and be glad for whatever the next square of your career quilt is that it was not that one.

Yeah, in fact I look back at some of the jobs that unfortunately they didn't ghost me for. I wish they would have ghosted me. Why did you call me back? Why'd I fall for that? But why does ghosting happen? I mean, I think Jamie makes a great point that, you know, there are real humans behind each of these job buckets that people are applying to. And you know, if you are being ghosted, put yourself in their shoes and try to think about what is that organization going through? Is it going through high growth? Perhaps it's chaotic. Perhaps it is a red flag that it's a shit show sort of organization. Perhaps they don't have process, right? Perhaps

they don't have the type of culture you'd like to be a part of. To Ashley's point about dodging bullets, I mean, really reflect and take the... Instead of just kind of say, oh gosh, why? But why me, why me? Be like, hey, what's going on with them? And reflect on that. Because ultimately, it may not be the type of organization you would really want to join. Also, it's not be the type of organization you would really want to join.

Also, it's not personal. It's not necessarily a reflection of you that you got ghosted. It's more of a reflection of the company or the recruiter that you're working with, et cetera. Actually, I want to give a shout out real quick to Nikki Jazz. She's on TikTok and Instagram, and she's actually become a friend of mine in the last couple of years. She's also a content creator, but she's actually a corporate recruiter.

So, you know, she works for United Airlines. She has great content, and it really resonates with me as someone who has been on the recruiting side in some of my career. But she actually, I think recently, had a video about why you get ghosted. And it was really good, but you know people in the comments will so and so ghosted I'm like I hear you but know that you aren't the only person that applied to the job now a hundred percent agree though like I

Had an interview this was like late 2000s, that sounds weird to say that, it's like 2009, with a brand that makes guitars. And they literally, like I think I went for 14 interviews, I'm taking off work at this point, the hiring manager, the lady that I will report to is like, this is all you, you got this, and then nothing. So I follow up and I get an email saying, thanks so much, we've moved with another candidate. Okay, no problems. But then the hiring manager reaches back out and was like,

hey, have you gotten your offer letter yet? So I literally forward her the email that I got, and she was like, no, no, that's wrong, that was for a different Jamie. So then the recruiter sent me the email that I got and she was like no no that's wrong that was for a different Jamie so then reaches out to me and she says oh that's right that was for the wrong Jamie you are still in the running never heard from anything after that no no you did it shit you know oh my god it crunch yeah you see like and that pissed me off and stuff. It did, it's so fucked up.

Because I'm like, was I the right Jamie or the wrong Jamie? Like we'll never know. I guess I was the wrong Jamie. Well I'll say this, so a few things, and I agree, Nicki Jazz, also Sammy Jones, who's win the job. Oh yes, win, yeah. But her score, whatever, win the job.

She's great too. And she has really good stuff on the candidate side as well and some of these things about how to reach out if you feel like you're getting ghosted. And I love those. But so also some of the things to keep in mind and for HR teams, I mean, I actually think if you're an HR team of one, you cannot handle recruiting as well. And you have to you physically, but you really I was at a nonprofit. No, I know. I know. I know. But it's important that... It's so important that managers understand...

Because managers will want... HR, you do it. This is your job. Like, okay. Every facet of HR was under John Jordan. It's not. For HR, one of the things that can be really helpful to communicate is some standard things. So I think in the language, like an automated email, I'm a huge proponent of getting back to people.

And I've had a couple DMs that say, I don't wanna be quickly notified that I didn't get it. I'd rather they just didn't reach out to me at all. And I say, well, I think I'd challenge you on that because, but not challenge you, but like overall, I'm sure there's some people, it doesn't feel good, but I do think having some communication is better than silence.

And you're never gonna please everybody. But think about what that looks like. If it's just, you know, totally, you know, nothing, like try to make it at least somewhat human. I will say, I actually can't remember the name. A friend of mine sent me a screenshot and she was like, I bet you'd love to see this. It was like a rejection, an auto rejection email

from first thing. It was like the most puffery shit you've ever read of like, we know you're an amazing human and you have value Hey, oh star Yeah, but we're so excited keep us posted on where you land the fuck are you talking about what looked then follow me on LinkedIn Like what like no no no no no don't don't over rotate on that But is some of those have some of those standards to managers or HR things having timelines

have some of those standards to managers or HR things, having timelines, so mapping out that process. The best interview processes are tight, are timely, are respectful of everyone's time, knowing that they're probably interviewing other places and keeping with that schedule and making those decisions. And if you tell someone you're gonna hear from them by Friday, then reach out to them by Friday. And if for some reason you can't let them know,

hey, I'm sorry, this communicated every step of the way. It is the least that you can do for people to match what you're saying and do not promise what you can't deliver on. Don't point to the person, their cube, oh this is where you're gonna sit, this is, you know, these things, same like, I bet there's so many people listening that had that. Your offer is coming, these are, and then, Heather, when's it come, it's a, it's a, it's a delay. I wish that I could save the girl's name from the guitar brand, but her name is very, very unique. Okay, well, you don't need to.

Once it's not, it's fine. Guitar brand. She knows. She's listening. Guitar brand. She knows. She knows she missed you. She missed out.

But it's never too late. I need that closure. Heather. I am. But also adding those next steps. Closure. Heather. But also adding those next steps, like oh, we're gonna have one next step, or if you have an internal candidate and you're really considering them,

really try to go with that rather than having the, all the interviews with external people. String everyone along. Yeah, and also, do not let people find out, oh my God, there's so many things, but do not let people find out they didn't get the job by reposting it on LinkedIn. Like if it's been closed and then reposting it or putting it back in your screen. Just communicate with people.

I will have one small plug, which is a nonprofit that I work with. I'm the volunteer country director for US and Canada for the Circle Back Initiative, which is founded by Steve Gard out of Australia. But what it is, is it recognizes employers that commit to getting back to every applicant. Simple, all we're talking about. Having, literally, and it's having those automated responses and having those stage gates. So if people have interviews, to Lee's point, if you've had this relationship, giving them this level.

And those are the commitments that they ask. And in exchange, you get a badge, you can also work with them. They have a benchmarking product about candidate experience that's really cool. But the Circle Back Initiative is completely free for employers. So please, we'll have it in the show notes. But if you can commit to that or want to look and see what's expected, it's literally the bare minimum, the Circle Back Initiative. And it's a really cool thing for employers and are really expanding in the US and Canada.

So we have some great organizations, hopefully you're listening, that are part of it already. Yeah. No, I think that's awesome. Please, everyone go check that out because what people fail to realize, and I say this a lot, I mean all the time, I may even have videos on this, I don't know. But the candidate experience is simply the beginning of the employee experience. It matters, right? It matters.

And it really matters for your brand too and your brand reputation. Because if you leave people hanging like that or you're making promises or your say-do ratio is off and low, people attribute that to the company and the brand. What's the say do ratio? Say do ratio. I've never heard that. I like that. Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd love that. You want that say do ratio to be high, you know, do what you say. And so that is so key and important because people, some people out there, people like me, I mean, I'm holding you to your word. You know, I'm thinking you're really, you're really going to come back, you know? So Heather, it's not too late if you're listening. I know it's been over 20 years, you know, but bitch needs an internship this summer. And so I'm waiting for that offer letter that's in the mail. You know what I mean? Like, it's never too late. Oh, yeah,

get some of that, you know, tech swag there. But yeah, I'll reload Austin for the summer that, you know, tech swag there. But yeah, I'll reload Austin for the summer to do that internship along with the other 22 year olds. Kids in the hall. This is reminding me of a movie with Vince Vaughn. Oh yeah, the internship. Oh yeah, there's a movie. Wait, the internship? The intern? I don't know. I don't remember. Internship, I think.

Well, I think of Drew Barrymore. Don't you have the one where she goes to high school or something? Yes. Never been kissed? Is that what it is? I think so. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm really bringing some references. You have unique goals. We're always inspired to keep creating. And I've been thinking about opening a Stellina sister restaurant. And need unique business banking tools to help you get there.

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So in our podcast, sometimes I'll give ideas of leadership meetings and things you can do with your leadership meeting activities HR can bring up. So let's have one bring up. Is like your Glassdoor or any of those types of employer sites. Yeah, bring that up. You can look at the case. So you can look at Glassdoor. That of those types of employer sites. But you can look at the case.

So you can look at Glassdoor, that's always important to look at. But also the interview, they have a catab that talks about interviews. And people talk about that interview process. So pull that up in your leadership team meetings and go through it and think about that. And then the byproduct or the output should be actions. What can we do? Open your eyes to what that experience is like. Because if you have your business that has customers, hopefully all, or those you support, think about those people.

And if those potential customers could see how you treat potential employees, would they want to do business with you? Absolutely. Yeah. And how you treat your employees is how they're going to treat your customer. Right? So this is all interconnected here. So just a reminder on that.

Now nobody's perfect, but anything you can automate, focus on automating that because in the absence of information, people are going to plug in some really negative assumptions like me with Heather. And so that just naturally happens because we're human there. So protect your brand. Do you look up Heather on LinkedIn? I have. Where is she now?

Is she still there? Where has she gone in her career path? I mean, without being... I mean, it looked like she may have had a... There's been a few years since Mike and I did it, but sometimes we do check in on her. But it looked like maybe she did a lateral, maybe had a little demotion, then went up a little bit. You know what I mean?

People, we never, we never, also if you're really busy, but when I'm at my busiest, that's when I find myself popping in my head to be like, oh, my third grade teacher's son, whatever happens, whatever happened to him, oh, shit, these people, I haven't seen her posting with her spouse in a while. Yeah. I mean, in cyclical Hebrew.

I have not looked at guitar brand. Do it. You're going to. Look it right now. That's why we have a hard stop, is because we're going to have to go look this person up. Yeah, I'm going to have to look her up. And I mean, don't get the wrong idea out there.

Like I'm not, I'm okay emotionally. Okay. I don't always think of that there. You know, this is just coming up. I'm just venting here in this safe space with the besties. I don't stalk her or anything. I'm not like obsessively following her on the LinkedIn. Just make sure your privacy settings,

check your privacy settings to make sure that people can't see that you viewed you as a profile if you don't want to. Fuck the privacy, I want everyone to know that I'm looking at them. Fuck that shit. Really? Yeah, I want you to know I'm fucking tapping you on the shoulder and peeking up on you. I have no privacy settings, man I just lay that shit out. We'll see that's the better header you owe me

I know that you see me looking at you. I do not have privacy settings on No, yeah, that's a real That's a real mind fuck for Heather. Yeah, it is. I like that. Well, I have to be the other side, where sometimes people, I have to look into things and review things for people sometimes, and so people really shouldn't be scared

that I'm looking at their profile. So I have some real reason to, I love that. I love that so much, Lee. It's me though, right? You know my, I don't give a uh attitude. Yeah, I really have a lot to learn from the confidence department sometimes. Yeah, it's like, no, let them see me seeing. Let them see me seeing, you know?

Can you imagine though, if you're like, literally like, if you, and you're like, that person looks familiar, and you realize that's a candidate, a ghost from Christmas past. Okay, okay. Going like, ooh. Literally, I'm haunting you now Okay, okay. Go now. Literally, I'm haunting you now. I'm haunting you now. You know what it means?

Tables turn. Okay, tables have shifted. Oh my God. Did you look up? No, I can't. I was trying to look through my old email to see if I could find her name. I know her very specific first name, but I don't remember her last name. She's wondering where her ghost is at today.

Who's her ghost haunting today? I'm trying, I'm trying. Oh gosh, oh gosh. Well, riveting conversation today on the ghosting and the hiring process. I don't see an end to it, but we'll do our best. You know, we'll do our best. That's all we can do. Let's go ahead because sake of a hard stop, I have to go look up Heather again and Jamie

has to look up her arch nemesis as well. I'll look up my next door neighbor from 1987. I'll be finding you. You have to look up your third grade teacher's son wondering your neighbor from 1987. I'll be finding you. You have to look up your third grade teacher's son wondering where he's at. So we're going to do that real quick. So we do have a hard stop so that we can transition into stalking. But pivoting now into some questions and comments.

Do we have any questions and comments before we close? I have a question. Do you all believe in ghosts? Is that what you're reading? My fucking mind. Okay. I have another one though. So, oh my gosh, were you all going to have the same question? Good meeting.

See, I got to it first. Yeah. Yeah. You don't get credit. You don't get credit for that question. Jamie. Well, it's funny that you should say that. So last night I was on the phone with my six year old and, um, he had to go

upstairs and he was like, but I'm scared mommy and he literally just starts balling screaming Running through the house like cuz we're on FaceTime and I was like, baby. We don't have any ghosts I was like, they're not even real. I 100% believe I was worried cuz Jamie's staying at my house. Oh, yeah Don't bring your I was worried because Jamie's staying at my house. Oh, yeah. She brought him with her. Yeah. Don't bring your shit with me. Get out.

They're cool with me. Goes to night chill. Yeah. So in my family, everyone has had multiple instances of something. Yeah. Right. So my aunts and uncles, my mom, cousins, we've all had experiences of something. Maybe because we live in San Antonio

and it's quite the haunted city, I have no idea. But all I know is that I don't know everything. So I leave the door open for any possibility of anything. So it's like, do I know that there's ghosts? No. You know what I mean? Do it's like, do I know that there's ghosts? No. I haven't, you know what I mean? Yeah. Do I think there is?

I don't know. Right? So I'm one of those people. Like I leave the door open for everything. But I do love a good documentary on people being haunted and stuff. You know what I mean? That's my bag. I love watching stuff like that.

I want to do a ghost tour in like Savannah or Charleston. Oh, at least do them in San Antonio. I would say when you said that, okay, we'll do that. I do, like, I love, I don't know what I believe in that. We're going to get more of a full stop book. I'm open, but I love a tale. I love the story time. I love hearing other people's experiences, especially in older times.

And I love the Haunted Mansion at Disney World. Oh, same. I do too. I do too. It's such a phenomenal ride. Yeah, I do too. Jamie, what do you got? Just remember that you're always somebody's weird coworker. So just leaving you with a parting thought. Well, I know that for a fact.

Trying to think about the people think I'm the way. No, I know. I know. Man, that's true. But I've always brought the fun. I bring the fun, but I know I'm the quirky one. They're like, that girl. I love that.

That girl's hanging in a chore. I do. I love the fun at work. And I have to recognize everyone's fun isn't the same on all of those things. But you think back to like, I don't know, some of those things. Like I'm just like thinking through things in my mind of like those funny stories at work. And it's just, it's a good time. Yeah. Life's too short to be boring. Yeah. I agree. I totally agree with that. I love having fun in any place I choose to be, the workplace included. So not a question, but a quick comment for me.

I could frame it as a question, but I think I could just make it a comment. I'm not sure. LinkedIn cringe. Right? We've talked about the LinkedIn today here, you know, and how I don't have any privacy settings because I do not give a fuck. But you're going to see me seeing you. But LinkedIn cringe, it seems to be at an all time high lately.

Every time I open that up, man, I am reading some crazy, crazy shit. So that's just kind of a blanket statement. But question for you all, have you seen anything recently on LinkedIn where you're just kind of like, oh my God, like, it, like you feel secondhand embarrassment, you know? Well, no, but you know, there's a really good meme page.

I don't even know if you'd call it a meme page, but it's called Best of LinkedIn. And they find the cringiest shit. I repost them of LinkedIn, and they find the cringiest shit. I repost them a lot, but they find the cringiest posts, and of course they black out the name, but I'm telling you, it's amazing. I saw one over the holidays. I think I saw it through that, or maybe Jordan reviews it. I think Jordan reviews it, shared it, and he was like, this is it, the end of LinkedIn.

So it was like right at Christmas Christmas time But she posted this before Christmas and talked about a prior Christmas and it based on the calendar It must have been two years prior so she was holding on to the story But she was out of England and had a recruiting firm and she talked about how over time She had her people work on Christmas Eve because often they have really pressing projects there. It's a search firm So as someone multiple people point out in comments if I have a recruiter reaching out to me on Christmas Eve because often they have really pressing projects there. It's a search firm. So as someone, multiple people point out in comments, if I have a recruiter reaching out to me on Christmas Eve, I will be declining that. That is not as urgent as you think.

But the point of it was that she gave them over time, they were supposed to work a full day. Over time, she would let people out at noon. And so the morning of Christmas Eve, one of her employees stopped by and said, are we getting, you know, what time are we going to close today? And she said, we, everyone worked till five that day because I realized what I was doing to be nice. Everybody just took for granted.

So employees, it's a two way street. And when people do something nice, don't just take it for granted. She got so roasted in those comments. She ended up deleting that and putting a new one where she kind of still tried to justify it and people are like, no ma'am. Yeah, don't double down. No. But she also had like, you know, the spacing and the affirmative statements and I don't know what she thought she was like Bob Cratchit.

LinkedIn spacing. It was, but so it was when people put those things out there, especially of employers who think that they are really doing good shit, it's probably not. And everyone's chat GPTing their posts now on LinkedIn and then talking about how they're chat GTTing it. You know what I mean? The rocket ship emoji. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we're taking off. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so LinkedIn cringe, that's always a good one. But hey, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of HR Besties. We hope you enjoyed our staff meeting and we certainly wish you, I was going to say happy haunting, but that's not the right way to say that, right? Happy and hauntingness. We hope you don't get ghosted this year. Okay, well there you go. Like making it all plain. Talk to you next time besties.