HR BESTIES - Even More Wisdom From HR Guru Dave Ramsey

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Today's agenda includes more hiring tips from HR guru Dave Ramsey: conducting a drive-by of a candidate's house a spousal dinner other unethical (and perhaps illegal) invasions of privacy This weeks sponsors are: Hello Fresh - use code HRfree with our link and get free breakfast for life! To learn more about the HR Besties, grab merch and reach out for partnerships, visit HRBesties.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So in college, I was an HR assistant. And that's actually how I ended up 20 years later still in this fucking career. That was your college job? Yeah. That's like fancy. Well, it was for Sears. Okay. Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. I was working in their fine jewelry department and they were like— Very fine. Yeah, because let's be honest, they had stoves in refrigerators for sale upstairs. Like, right. But, uh, they were like, Hey, I think you'd be great in the back of our office as a HR assistant. I was like, fuck yeah. And I hadn't declared my major yet. So I was like, great. You were open. Yeah. But the most crazy shit happens at department stores and you would never know it. Yeah. it yeah so um one day we had an employee

and i guess they had an upset stomach but on the way to the bathroom while running decided to pull down their pants and shit all the way and they're not turds they it was liquid oh my god all the way into the bathroom. Like a trail of tears. Yeah. And guess who had to clean it? Because, you know, there's not like just janitors on staff. Not the HR assistant.

Oh, the HR assistant. Shut your mouth. So, and the wild part about the story is I'm, here I am 20 years later. That's what I was about to say. You're still in HR. Like, that didn't scare me. And you think one of your duties is literally sweeping up shit. Literally.

Like, and I was, I was on my hands and knees. It doesn't sound like a sweeping. No, it's a mopping. That's not the accoutrement. Sorry. No, definitely. I don't clean a lot. No, no.

There was a lot of paper towels, gloves. Also, I did find a mask, you know, and this is pre-COVID. So, like, those weren't things that— The painter's mask. And I had to clean it with Windex because that's literally the only thing I could find. No Fabuloso? No. Oh, my God.

Just Windex magic stuff. And so now my boss did give me a gift card to Starbucks. Oh, I thought you were going to say to Sears. Come on. The Sears Fine Jewelry Department. $15. Oh, my God. You know where you can stick that $15 gift card up that employee's ass, okay?

Oh, my God. Honestly, it was like I can't believe that I'm still doing this. No, however you were covered. People walk off their jobs when someone like rolls their eyes the wrong way. And you're like, yes, yes, here I am. Well, and I've never had to pick up shit ever again. I mean, except my own childs and dogs. Oh, my God.

It trained you well. Yeah. HR, the shit picker-upper. Maybe I'm a little too fucking loyal. No, you're masochistic. You're perfect for this field. You are the HR. I see all these HR professionals, my mind shaking their heads, yes, right now. Yes, yes. Most people, it's metaphorical, but for you, it was...

No. You know, the worst part, too, is the crazy shit that people do in dressing rooms, and I'm not talking about SCX. I'm talking about taking— That's what you spell out? I'm taking shits. And wiping boogers. And—

Because I've seen lots of boogers in dressing rooms. The women's were the worst. Tampons. No, no, no, no. I swear to God. I'm like peeing in dressing rooms. I'm like, we have a bathroom. But that was customers.

That wasn't employees. Oh my God. That you know, right? Do you have to clean that stuff up? No. Oh, thank God. I thought you were going to tell me. I was like, Jamie.

They're like, she'll do it. It's like, girl, you weren't an HR assistant. You were a janitor, girl. You were a janitor. They just didn't want to insult you. But oh my God. We pay you $7.25 to go clean up shit, girl. Go on. That was $7.25. go clean up shit, girl. Go on.

That was $7.25. Big leagues. That was the late 90s, right? No, that was 2002 or 2003. I started at the $4.25. It wasn't enough, whatever it was, right? No. Oh, my God.

All right. Well, since we have a hard stop, let's go ahead and dive, deep dive into the agenda. Ashley, can you kick us off, please? Sure. Why don't we get started this week with our cringy corporate speak, Jamie, if you want to tackle that for us. Yes. And then last meeting, we had a spillover. So I know we were starting with the guidance on good tips for hiring from famed HR guru, Dave Ramsey. So we touched on the first few of those. And I think he has some real genius tips coming for us that we'll tackle today. And then we'll always reserve some time at

the end for some questions and comments. So Jamie, you have us a corporate speak for us today. Yes. So my least favorite corporate word is boil the ocean. Yeah. Like FYI, FYI, our, our oceans are already hot tubs. Hello, global warming. I do love a hot tub. Toes in the sand. All right. So remember. But explain, explain explain explain what that is supposed to mean what does that mean what are you really saying yeah i have no idea what do you mean you don't know what boil the ocean means no i mean it means like doing too much stuff at once like you're trying to accomplish it all you're trying to accomplish it all pick two priorities and run no i know what it means i was like hold on hold on a second. But I loathe it. Yeah.

No, I'm just like, it's stupid, though. I just hate that thing. If you can imagine sitting down for a meeting and someone's talking and they start saying, boil the fish, like shut down. But if you sit down and someone in leadership is like, all right, let's talk about how we're trying to do too much shit. I would perk up. Tell me more. I will follow you. Reach the ocean. much shit. I would perk up. Tell me more.

I will follow you. Bridge, ocean. Follow you. Bridge, yeah. Follow you. Follow you anywhere. But I think Dave calls it, I think, parting the Red Sea.

I think, right? But that's my guess. But you want to go ahead and Jamie, you had sent us this. Let's see what the rest of these dirty dozen of good, brilliant things we haven't heard before tips and hiring. Let's jump back in. So are y'all ready to be kicked in the face by an ice skate?

I mean, I feel like I'm supposed to say yes. I saw the Tanya. Are you ready? Are you ready? Go on a spousal dinner. No. This may be the best advice on the list. Hardly, Dave.

A spousal dinner is your chance to get to know the candidate and their spouse and share the company's story in a casual restaurant setting. Like, so we go into Applebee's? We go to the Bumless Wings? I bet. Lee, where would you go?

Where would you go? I bet. I would do Applebee's. I want to know your casual dining restaurant. What's your casual dining? I feel like you're just a little higher. I bet. Lee, where would you go? Where would you go? I bet. I would do Applebee's. Lee, what would you be here? I want to know your casual dining. What's your casual dining? I feel like you're just a little higher. I know. I feel like you're just higher.

Jamie and I are doing a two-for-one before 5 o'clock. Literally. I'm going to the Chili's. Oh, good. I'm going to Southwestern Egg Rolls. For sure. Oh, man. I don't know.

I don't want to, like, you know, drop a brand or anything. But, you know, I am Texan. Chili's sponsor me. I am Texan. And so, you know, we, we do a lot of steak, you know what I mean? So I'm probably a steakhouse person, but I feel as though if they asked me to dinner as a candidate, um, I wonder if they had the candidate choose the place. Could you imagine being evaluated on? Do you see what I'm saying?

Okay. And I'm, I'm over here at a $400 meal place. Obviously, I wouldn't do that in an interview. But you know what I'm saying? You can read a lot by where people are eating. Yeah. And what if I'm anti where you like to eat? Exactly. Because I had a cockroach in my food the last time.

You know what I'm saying? I would be like, oh, my God. Let's go to Publix. I have a coupon. I mean, I would be in public. Dave would be like, that's your person. Exactly. Find the person that will sacrifice everything for them.

She does the envelopes. I do love a PubSub. But yeah, I mean, this is wild to me. It says, as the spouse hears about the culture in the job, they're usually eager to share whether they think the position is a fit. No, they are not. My husband and I would be like, I don't know, do whatever the fuck you want. Read that last line, they are not. I don't do whatever the fuck you want. Read that last line, please. Okay. I will talk to this. Yeah, do it here. First of all, this is all assuming there's no, there's no, this last line is not, oh, just in case the person

doesn't have a spouse. It is assumed that that person is married and a spouse, not partnering. So they're all married people. They're not widowed. They're not a single mother. No, no. Go on that spousal dinner. That's against the religion. And here's the bonus. One more bonus to this. It's horrific. Brace yourselves.

Terrible, yeah. Terrible. Here's the ice cake. You'll discover if your candidate is married to crazy. If they are, stay away. Oh my God. I mean, you're not wrong, Dave. You're not wrong, but you ain't right. You're not you're not you're not you're not wrong Dave

you're not wrong but you ain't right you're not wrong but you ain't right you know what I'm saying and that is not your business that is not your business I mean how many hurdles

do you have to jump through to get a freaking job I mean this is again you start you start with this drive by you can't even know crazy people you start with this drive by and you're like

we're just gonna have a quick 30 minute tight we're good we are so good then all of a sudden they're staring into your soul trying to figure out if they like you, calling all of your pre-designed references, doing your credit check, going into your bank account. Now, you and your spouse, I mean, this is like-

You should have called us the 12 commandments. The 12, but I, I mean, I don't know what he is thinking us as your spouse hears. Oh, tell me about the culture and job and job role. They're eager to share if they think the position fits what at the table. If I am trying to imagine I'm at a dinner with my husband, he has some interview and they're telling me about things. I'm going to pipe up and give my opinion real quick. I don't think Dave Ramsey would want to hear his candidate's wife's opinion. That seems crazy. Would appreciate me sharing my opinion. Sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you. What on earth? How has this played out in practice?

We really, I know. Can we have someone who has gone on a spousal dinner? Please. Please write in to us. Oh, God. I've never heard of it. I'm trying to think. Even in law firm to like, even in like law, like law firm recruiting tends to be pretty regimented. Like in law firm, a lot of times you interview on campus and then you go through and do the day of, I don't, I can't, I can't think of a situation when anyone, anyone has met. I mean, I don't even like as, as women frequently, like my, my fingers,

my fingers too fat. So I couldn't get my, my wedding ring off. But as women frequently, like my fingers, my fingers too fat. So I couldn't get my wedding ring off. But as women, frequently you're told to hide the fact that you're married. Dave, it seems to be flipping, but we need, we really need to hear from people that have gone on the spousal dinner and what that experience was like. Now we're coming up on time. Cause if you recall, we have a hard stop. And so I think there's two left. Are we going to cover these or not? Do you want to mention them? Yeah, we can. Just for the sake of the list, right? Really quick.

They're not as controversial. They're definitely not. Number 10, create a key results area. I don't even know what that is. That's a fill in. That was a fill in. That was a fill in. And also, I feel like you can't really, you can't really have KPRs, whatever.

KPIs. KPIs, yeah. Until you've been in the role and know what the fuck you're doing. And then number 12. Wait, wait, wait. He says operating without a KRA. I've never heard of a KRA in my life. It is like going.

But can we be honest? It's not a thing. They give goals. Wigs. But he says operating without a KRA, which I've been doing for my whole career. Exactly. It's like taking people bowling and turning out the lights. Well, then that's what I've been doing my entire career.

I actually love a good time when you go bowling and they turn out the lights. Oh my God, I love that. The night bowl is fun. Cosmic, cosmic bowling. I've been, I'm cosmic. I'm not pretty. And I still will hit a fright. Cosmic bowling. Cosmic bowling is a lot more fun than when you go in the middle of the day and the lights are on and no one uses, I've never heard the term KRA.

Me neither. It's not a thing. That's, we're moving. That's not. Okay. And then number 12, the final of the 12 commandments of a good hire, implement a 90-day probation. You know, a lot of companies have this. I don't really feel any which way about it. I'm not for it, but that's just me. It doesn't matter. It's not a thing.

It's not a thing. If you are in the rest of the world, I remember once someone, I was working with a global organization and they said, can you make me a list of all the different employment laws around the world? Oh my God. Yeah. Wizard. Wizard. Oh sure.

Bibbidi-bobbidi. That's like a really easy list. And I said, okay, I'll break it down. In the US, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Yeah. In the rest of the world, you cannot. But in the rest of the world, probation can actually mean something like there can be different severance because the rest of the world has a bit more balanced power dynamic and expectations. But in the U.S., unless you have a contract that

gives you a term, which most people do not have, it is at-will employment. And in at-will employment, that again means either one can terminate employment at either time. You are the employer. And so when you have probation, that doesn't really add anything other than an expectation that after 90 days, you're going to have a performance conversation, which you rarely do because everyone forgets about it. And then after that, they're like, now I'm a permanent employee. And that's what people, people like now they're a permanent employee. And I'm like, you can't get rid of them after that, which is completely not true. No. And then I'm like, well, how are you going to tell someone you're a permanent employee? And then that person gets let go.

And you've set these unrealistic expectations. A 90-day probation period. And people are like, you can't take time off. God forbid, don't get sick. Oh, I know, don't get sick. Kids, don't get kids. Get real mad at your kids. Don't get sick in 90 days.

Well, thank you, Dave, right, for that illuminating list. I feel like we learned so much and I'm so thankful to have HR mansplained to me and how to hire somebody. Awesome hot topic today. He really boiled the ocean with that one. Oh, he did. No, you actually use that like totally legit, right? Yeah, he did. He did. It was more lukewarm, lukewarm solutions to me. Jamie, I feel like you're a holidays person. You know it. Do you like to buy online or in stores?

I like to go in person, but then I hit my limit. Same. And I'm busy and I have zero energy to think about what to make for dinner. Which is why we are so happy HelloFresh is sponsoring the HR Besties podcast. You know, I had no idea that they have HelloFresh Market, which is something where you can get like ready-to-go charcuterie boards. Could you spell charcuterie? No, and that's why I'm a talker and not a writer. But I am going to write them and see what their top hits are with HelloFresh Market,

like their ready-to-go breakfast items. We need hacks for breakfast, which is why it's exciting that HelloFresh Market like they're ready to go breakfast items. We need hacks for breakfast, which is why it's exciting that HelloFresh is providing breakfast for life for our HR bestie listeners. Go to HelloFresh.com slash HR free and use code HR free for free breakfast for life. What that means is one breakfast item per box while your subscription is active. one breakfast item per box while your subscription is active. Free breakfast for life. Go to HelloFresh.com slash HR free and then use code HR free. I had no idea starting a podcast would make my mornings easier. It is thanks to our sponsorship by America's number one meal kit. All right. So we're coming up on our hard stop here, but we want to make sure that we save time for any questions or comments. So a little Q&C.

Does anyone have a question or a comment? I do. So I have a comment. So I mentioned at will. And one of the things that people often get wrong is what at will means and what right to work means. And people interchange the two. So at will employment in the U.S. in particular means that either you or the employer or employee can terminate employment. No, no, my state,

that's called right to work. That is not true. Right to work is the idea of a union and whether you have to join a union or not if you are in a union. And that is a state-specific thing. So you can think right to work has to do with unions. At- will has to do with whether you can be fired or not. And people say, I'm in an at-will state. Well, 49 states, every single state in the U.S., except for Montana, is at will. And even Montana is at-will-ish. There's some differences. But so when people say those things, I will save you that comment. That is your lesson for the day.

Oh, that's a good one. Jamie. I have a question. Yeah. Which famous person, dead or alive, would be by your side during a zombie apocalypse? Like, would I want to be by my side? Yeah. Tupac.

What? Tupac. Oh. They just arrested his killer. I saw that. Oh, God. That's a deep question. It is deep. You know what I mean? Oh, gosh. Dave Ramsey, 100%.

Love it. Absolutely. Dave Ramsey. I mean, I don't know. Probably John Krasinski, because he seems very unassuming. Then when push comes to shove, there he comes with his, like, you know, jacket around. So, the unassuming hero. We all pick men.

Plus he's funny. What's that about? Oh, that makes me. Well, because I was going to push Dave in front of the zombie. Well, yeah. You know, so I was going to save myself. I meant Pam. I meant Pam.

Yeah. All right, Lee, question or comment? So, not a question, but a comment. We talked about spousal dates as part of the interview. Would it be more useful, though, to take the whole family out and see if their kids are assholes? My kids would be such assholes. So I would never hire you is what you're saying? No, you wouldn't.

Unless my kids were also assholes. And then that's about fit. And then it would be equal assholes. So I would never hire you is what you're saying? No, you wouldn't. Unless my kids were also assholes. And then that's about fit. Yeah, right. And are they as passionate about this job as Thurber? Thurber's run with Thurber. Exactly. Thurber's run with Thurber. This is brilliant.

This is brilliant. Gosh. All right. Well, I'm looking at the clock and I know we're right here up on lunchtime, right? So we appreciate you joining us for another staff meeting here in HR Besties where we talk business and BS.