HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Coping With Job Loss

Starting point is 00:00:00 Ooh, do I have a story for y'all? We're going to start off season six with a bang, y'all. Well, that could mean a lot of things, as we know. Continue, please. I'm going to share my layoff story from my most recent letting go, I guess, which I know you ladies have heard this, so bear with me, but I need to share because it is fucking. wild. So a little backstory is I was with this company for three years. It was a startup. I was

Starting point is 00:00:36 one of the first 50. So I helped build specifically the HR department from the ground up. In January this year, I got a new leader. Unfortunately, my leader left, loved her. I would have followed her anywhere. Unfortunately, I couldn't at this particular time because she went to another startup and she didn't have positions open yet. But we got a new leader. And I could tell early on that she was going to make changes in our department. And I felt it. And she was not very necessarily open, but the question she was asking me,

Starting point is 00:01:09 for instance, can I have a copy of your job description? Can you, in an email, tell me exactly what you do, how you do it? Can you invite me to meetings that, you know, you are a part of? Because I just want to learn. But to me, that wasn't learning. And it would be, in theory, micromanaging, right? Like, I get, she's new. She wants to understand each of the people in their roles in her department.

Starting point is 00:01:33 Now, you know, the people department is now her. She wants to understand it. Probably about three months into her taking this position, she had to let me know that my position was being eliminated. Okay, it sucks. I didn't necessarily not expect it. But she asked me to go ahead and figure out a date that worked for me. to be my last day. So I went ahead. I wrote her an email and I was very careful with my choice

Starting point is 00:01:59 of words because I was not resigning. I was being let go. So in my email, I even titled it at the top, my last day. And I picked a date. It was about a month out. So I was giving them a month worth of work where I was trying to tie up my loose ends, pass on work that needed to be pass on, et cetera, because I have three years worth of stuff I built from the ground up, right? So about a week before my final day, which my final day was this past April, I get an email from our HRBP and it is my Tennessee separation notice because in the state of Tennessee, you must provide a separation notice. And it's marked voluntary separation. And I was like, wait a minute, skirt. So I, of course, having access to all employee files, go look in my file and see my resignation. However, I didn't resign.

Starting point is 00:02:50 So I pulled it up, and I see that the email that I sent had been altered from my original email I sent, that I was resigning my position effective X date and April, whereas my email read, you know, thanks for our conversation this morning, I will be giving the whole, there was whole two sentences of mine removed. So I did what any normal person would do. I immediately sent it to our general counsel, and I said, what the fuck? I said, you know, in my 21 years of HR, I have never, ever seen anything so unethical that a senior leader of HR would alter someone's resignation when it was not a resignation at all. Literally changed your words, deleted those, and put that sentences like it was your words, not forwarded your email and then added her own sentence, right? Yep.

Starting point is 00:03:46 Right. Not notes from leader, FYI. Like, it was my email. So, and I PDFFed my original and obviously what was in my file was PDF. And I sent it to that general counsel because I was like, how fucking dare she? And there was a lot of other stuff that I'll probably get into one day. I was promised my PTO. I didn't get it.

Starting point is 00:04:07 I got shitted on severance. I got, you know, not the standard amount. I fought it as much as I could, but I know they just wanted me out. it was messy. But the altered resignation, which was not a resignation, was really the most damaging thing. And I hope that woman remembers that for the rest of her career and what a fucked up mistake she made because we should not be touching any resignations, any kind of documentation that gets to us. There should be nothing that should be altered. As HR professionals, that is something we have to do to protect our employees.

Starting point is 00:04:46 Not, I mean, I was protecting myself in this case, but... Did it cost her any money? No, of course not. Not a damn done. Then she'll only remember it as a play that she can take to exit somebody. And I don't think it was probably her first time either. I feel like that's got to be learned behavior. But that's so...

Starting point is 00:05:04 It's so strange. Now, have you had a conversation or communication with her ever since she was found out? Yes. She apologized and she said... Ooh. Yeah. she said that she didn't want to embarrass me. And I said, but you realize not only what you're creating,

Starting point is 00:05:23 I've already told everyone I was being laid off anyway, girl, please. But what she created was a chain of events because then I was marked as voluntary termination. I received the wrong Tennessee separation notice. I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment. Like, that was really dumb because it set off a chain of events that she should have understood being a senior leader in human resources would affect. The worst part, too, is she asked me to send her an email with a list of everyone in the date I was going to tell them I was leaving. She had to have it, but she never made any announcement of my departure. And keep in

Starting point is 00:06:08 mind, you know, I'm one of the eldest employees there. I've been with the company since the jump. I was known as HR because the only HR person because I was literally the first person half these people met. So, and I had to go by a list. And there are certain people I couldn't tell. She had to tell them. It was the wildest fucking shit. Oh, and I left on a Friday and my position was posted by Monday. I, Jamie, I just, for those listening, there's a reason our podcast is called H.R. Besties, but there is clearly room for this leader to have a podcast called H.R. Worstys. Yes. Oh, my God. Don't do any of this. Don't alter emails. If you tell someone their position is being eliminated. Wait, was it your same position effectively being reposted? Yes. So it was all

Starting point is 00:06:57 my duties. However, they changed the title to one level up, even more fucked up. We'll get into this, I'm sure, in the heart of the episode. But the thing I used to always say to people when I was, whether I was legal or are generally in these conversations. People are like, well, it's going to change the title. I'm like, okay, but let's think about how people think about that. Like, if you're letting Greg go, is everybody going to talk about, let's say Jenny's coming in, but is everybody going to call Jenny the new Greg? Is that how we people would think of that? Well, maybe, but it's a different title. Well, same as if you can title an agreement, an independent contractor agreement that does not make someone an independent contractor, but that's for another day. But I am sorry. It's all good. I definitely, and I've shared, this on my social media, I definitely struggled because I didn't realize how much my self-worth was tied to my career and climbing the corporate ladder and just, you know, I think I'm an elder millennial. We've talked about this, ladies, but elder millennials, we were drilled. You go to college. You go get your master's. And then you get in the work first. And you climb that ladder. And we did all the things right. And so to kind of be smacked in the face, it's like a

Starting point is 00:08:05 step back, but I feel much better now. I'm a few months out of it. And we're, I'm fine, I'm fine. But I couldn't wait to tell the story. Wow. When life gives you content, you make content aid. Of course. Content aid. I like that.

Starting point is 00:08:20 When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game. You bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents, so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. Well, I'm sure that we will touch back on, is that a cringe one? Is that a cringe speak? Probably.

Starting point is 00:08:46 There's circle back. There we go. We'll circle back, I'm sure, to your story there through this episode, because it's all about job loss. Before we get into that main topic, should I do a rundown of the agenda? Please do. Thank you so much, Jamie, for being vulnerable because that sucks. man, that is some water cooler talk if I ever heard it right there. Next up on the docket is cringe corporate speak and Ashley is at bat for that.

Starting point is 00:09:17 And then we will transition to our meeting hot topic, which is all things layoffs, job loss, coping with, you know, that sort of big transition there. And then, of course, as always, at the end, some questions and comments before we have that hard stop. Ashley, what do you got for us? Well, my cringe corporate speak for the day is difficult, but necessary. And where this comes into play is sometimes with these layoff announcements, and you'll see often the CEO, like CEOs noticed to team members and says this was so hard, it was difficult but necessary. And I think it's the necessary part to me that just feels, it just feels like it invites so many

Starting point is 00:10:03 questions, if not cringe. Have you all heard this, seen this? Yes. Yes. And with layoffs. Which to me, it sounds like, sorry, but we have to screw you. Yeah. Like, sorry, you were just fucked, but it was necessary. Yeah. Very disingenuous. Something about it, right? It's squirly. There's certain situations where nonprofit, for example, where you live and die by the grants. And if you get your grant funding pulled away or you have things like that and you literally can't, that is it. That is a pretty rare exception where you literally can't make payroll if that happens. And that's, it's a really hard one that I know, I know some nonprofits are going through now. And that's an exception to that, that I would, I would give an asterisk to that. But, but often where you see it is for profit

Starting point is 00:10:46 organizations when they're having their record year. And yet, this is told necessary. And so I think you got to be super careful. And when you're in HR, your voice doesn't always have the power that it should, but just having that perspective of like, this is going to invite some questions if we say necessary. Are there other things that we could possibly say if it's done and executives are still getting huge bonuses, it's stock things and chairs are up and all of that or just otherwise people can tell like that's interesting because we just had this really expensive thing happen or office upgrades or whatever. And so the word necessary to me is the cringe part of that three part phrase. Absolutely. Because it is just cloaked and subjectivity.

Starting point is 00:11:31 To your point, I mean, especially for for-profit, we've got all these budget buckets and we can ship them all around. What do you mean it's necessary to lay people off? No, not necessarily, right? Unless we are literally shutting the doors, you know, and closing up shop. Yeah, it's that. It's that word there, just the subjectivity about it. It is cringy. I'm going to look up right now just as we get into the regular one.

Starting point is 00:12:00 if I see difficult but necessary. Because I would just say we have to make hard decisions, which we do as leaders, as businesses, you know, tough calls. Oh, I see when I Google it quickly, I see some, sure do. I see, I see difficult but necessary is coming up quite a bit with some very large organizational announcements. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it's ick.

Starting point is 00:12:26 Oh, speaking of ick. great transition to the hot topic of the day all things job loss layoffs now does jamie's story is that even a layoff i mean what was that even i mean what the it was like a job elimination but not because then they just posted the job it was a term that wasn't but is but you know what i mean what was that besides lies yeah i mean i guess i was fired right you were like tricked into resigning. I'm assuming I was more fired than anything else. Cruel. Yeah. And granted, there have been people since me. There's been four people that have had to leave as well in the people department. So, I mean, I do think that she really was restructuring the department

Starting point is 00:13:16 how she wanted to be. I unfortunately was the first casualty and mine was just handled poorly. To say the least. But I do think it's for things like job loss, it's really hard because it's really personal. And I do think a lot, especially at the top, like, you know, it may be PR of like, okay, people are often thinking about investors. They're not thinking about the people impacted as much when it comes to messaging these things. But it can feel hard. So people call it a layoff because or a job reduction or things like that. But just knowing personally, Jamie's point right there of, I don't know why this happened. And so I think leaders often will say that. And they'll say, oh, it's a, we're restructure and it's a job, a job. But then you see your position being reposted.

Starting point is 00:13:57 you haven't talked to her about the fact that the job was reposted, I assume, have you? No, no. And filled by her friend. Well, I would technically, my last day was that Friday and it was posted that Monday. So you're not talking to her. Yes, and it was filled by her friend. So in theory, I was laid off to make room for her friend. It was a difficult but necessary decision.

Starting point is 00:14:17 You fired yourself so her friend could be promoted there. Yes. Legal Ashley's head wants to blow. right? Oh, man. It does. It does. It does want to. And people will say things like, okay, hold on. Like, what she did to Jamie's email? Is that illegal? And again, like, I'm not a lawyer licensed in Tennessee. Often things like that are, whether it's illegal or not, the ramifications. Like, you're not going to, unfortunately, Jamie's probably not going to go to court and get the $10 million settlement. We would all love her to have. I am not. To continue a life,

Starting point is 00:14:49 but she's going to have to be on this podcast instead. Thank you. Listen to the ads. From a legal perspective, it drives me crazy because so many people in the workplace, including people in leadership, they manage to the lowest common denominator of what can we do? What do we have to do as a question for compliance? What can we do to get around that? Well, these are my goals. I want to be surrounded by people I like that are like me, that are like my friends. So I need to, you know, right size and get these other people out. And you just forget the absolute humanity and your decision, which sometimes it's going to be made, totally get it. Sometimes it's going to be made. Often it does not need to be made.

Starting point is 00:15:27 And it's made or it's made in terrible ways without conversations, like all of these things. And so forgetting this level of humanity has such repercussions for people who then they lose their job in the U.S. That often means I know Jamie, you know, I know this, your health insurance is through your husband who works for the city. So thank you. But like, yeah, I'm very lucky in that aspect. But how crazy is that?

Starting point is 00:15:49 How crazy is that? And I know our global listeners still, whether you don't know this or it always is so baffling. but in the U.S., your health insurance is often tied. And so not only does that implicate, how am I going to pay for these bills, your self-worth, your family's medical care, it impacts so much. And so that's the thing that I often work with organizations. I get it's going to happen. I totally get it.

Starting point is 00:16:12 But think about how you can make it happen a lot less and a lot more humanely, because it's not right what you went through, Jamie. It's not, and it's not right what other people are going through. Well, and I think, you know, a lot of times we've, fight the stigma online of HR's villainized, especially now after the Coldplay concert incident, right? I mean, we are villainized and we always have been. But truthfully, in my 21 years, and I think you ladies can probably concurred that I have never ever actually seen bad HR until then, till that moment, I had not personally had to deal with it because I want to believe

Starting point is 00:16:53 that 95 to 98% of us actually want to do good, not by the company, but by the employees and protecting the employees, but also obviously there's the company aspect, too, because we're all employees of the company. So HR, no, is probably not your friend. But that was the first time I had physically had that happen where bad HR was a real thing. I see bad HR, but the vast majority. I can't say never. Yeah, I've seen a lot about it. But Lee, when you think about things like job loss,

Starting point is 00:17:29 yeah. And a lot of what you do is toxic workplace. Sometimes it's toxic workplace survival. So sometimes that means figuring out how you want to do at your workplace. Other means it's getting out. But what about those people that are, you know, even if they find their workplace toxic, they lose their job and they lose that opportunity. What do you say in those situations?

Starting point is 00:17:48 Well, literally, right? I mean, just to take that literally instead of figuratively. It's always, I'm sorry. Like, it is a very difficult transition. Like, please, take the time for you that you need to heal. And, you know, get support. Surround yourself with those that you can lean on. Seek therapy, right?

Starting point is 00:18:16 Whatever it is you need, however it is, you heal from something. because just the experience of a layoff or any sort of termination is profound. I mean, it can really be earth-shattering. Ashley, to your point, you know, especially being here in the United States, it's not only the loss, you know, of benefits, but a lot of times it's the loss of, you know, identity and self-worth,

Starting point is 00:18:44 like Jamie was mentioning before, your whole majority of your day, you know, is now, it's just, it's just open. You take into account that, I think, at least the last I saw, seven out of ten Americans live paycheck to paycheck. And very quickly, it's easy, you know, to see how people can become homeless, especially those even that have jobs or going between jobs. It's just, it's just wild, right? We have lots of, we have lots of, we have lots of, we have lots of drama and strife. But first, it's always, gosh, I feel for you that you had to go through such a, just an insane, probably horrific experience because we're really bad at it. I just know that we are really bad at terminating people. It's already a bad sort of, you know, a thing, right?

Starting point is 00:19:42 I mean, experience. And so that is really, really tough. But taking the time you need for yourself to heal and giving yourself grace, because there really is a lot of grief around it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And people grieve in different intervals and people, you know, the grief can last a really long time, especially if you experience abuse in the workplace. It can be very profound. You may not get over it.

Starting point is 00:20:12 Some people actually do develop PTSD and anxiety and depression and all these other things. And so really just giving yourself time. Then on the flip side, I always say, but I'm just going to talk to myself, right, because I've been terminated before and it really sucked. It was really shocking. On the flip side, it's like, gosh, when I was fired, I knew in that moment, though, that that was the absolute best thing to have ever happened to me. professionally. I just knew it because I was working so tirelessly and endlessly and just

Starting point is 00:20:49 ridiculously for my workforce. I would have never quit. Same. Even though I was being abused and tortured, literally, in all ways, except physically, only because I was working remote, though, probably, you know, I would have never given up on them while I gave up on myself years ago and just accepted the fact that, oh, it's okay that I'm being abused by my leaders or my CEO or my boss or whatever. So I knew in that moment, God, this is saving me. And this is absolutely the best thing to have ever happened to me. I'm going to have faith in that. Like, they exited me from something I would not have exited myself from. So it was kind of this mix of screw you, but thank you at the same time is weird. You know, so, you know, doors close. And really,

Starting point is 00:21:40 Other doors do open, right? I mean, that's really what inspires new ventures and entrepreneurism and, you know, rising from the ashes. So it's kind of two-sighted, you know, that's kind of how I look at it's like, damn, this sucks. I'm going to sit in it and feel it so I can get through it, but also I'm inspired too. Do you ever wish that you had an HR legal bestie in your pocket? 650 is just that. your trusted, always available ally for your employment law questions, minus the hefty price tag of a lawyer. Compliance may not be your favorite chore in HR, but it's important and it's hard,

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Starting point is 00:23:03 Imagine transforming your life by unlocking the power of your mind. I'm Amy Morin, therapist and best-selling author, and I'm here to teach you how with my podcast, mentally stronger with therapist Amy Morin. With actionable strategies straight from my therapy office and wisdom from the world's leading experts, I'll equip you with the tools to conquer whatever challenges life throws your way. Whether you're overcoming mental health issues

Starting point is 00:23:29 or aiming for peak performance, this podcast is your gateway to become. becoming mentally stronger. Subscribe to Mentally Stronger with therapist Amy Morin. Your journey to unlocking full potential starts here. I think the questions oftentimes that can be helpful is after job loss and recognizing like to Lee's point, I think it's a weird experience. Mind fuck.

Starting point is 00:23:49 And then you're thinking, okay, you're out for a walk. You're thinking, okay, I have time for this. Then something hits you and you're so pissed off about it again. And it's the back and forth. And so just knowing, letting those thoughts in, let that thought sit there and try to let it out, but also thinking two questions for yourself of what do I have to do now for myself, what do I have to do for my family? What do I have to do? And what do I want to do? Because it's that. Sometimes you've got to figure out a lot of the have to in the in between,

Starting point is 00:24:15 but I agree. I mean, look at, look at Lee, what you've built. Jamie, look at what you're putting together. And you've had this, I know you've had this time with your family that, you know, at one hand, it creates real stresses. On the flip side, you have these things. And so it cannot always be, that mix, but thinking about to yourself, what do I have to do and what do I want to do and letting yourself take that time to think about what you want to do. Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing really is let yourself be angry and upset, too. Like, it's okay to, like, feel those feelings of, like, devastation and, um, and process everything and, you know, however long you need to.

Starting point is 00:24:56 Because, like, I even still have days and I'm, what, how many months now, three months in, and almost four, and I still have days where I'm just like, I don't want to go on job boards. I don't want to do anything. I just still want to lay in bed and be sad. I think that's okay. I think it's okay to, like, take a break from that and still allow yourself to fill those feelings, because it is a lot. And I don't think I ever realized how tied I was to my job and my career, sadly. And now, though, I will take that into my next job.

Starting point is 00:25:32 I won't be as tied. Maybe I'll have better boundaries. Maybe I don't know what that'll look like. But it's just going to be different because I'm not going to be tied so that if this happens again to me, I won't be as devastated, I guess. Because – and I've always known this. Like, look, I think what hurt the most about this one is I actually left this job and they begged me to come back. gave me more money, a bigger title. And I did. So to me, I felt like I was needed. They wanted me back, right? So it was kind of a mind fuck to then just be let go a year back after I've been back a year, you know? And it played more into my thoughts that they needed me back because I'm like, but they need me. They needed me. But they didn't need me. And that's the thing is everyone sadly is replaceable. Doesn't mean they're going to do as good job as you. But we are replaceable. I think I was probably a liability because I was always going to speak up and I was going to say if something, and that's how I am and how I always been.

Starting point is 00:26:35 Jamie, honestly, I don't think it had anything to do with you. I think this is just the reality sometimes of when you inherit a new leader. So I think, you know, we all aim to explain control a situation. Yes, to understand it. You know, try and figure it out. Yeah. I think that understanding. it, right? And, you know, and sometimes internalize that and be like, if I had just blank, if only I was this, they did that because I'm Y or X or whatever. Honestly, I don't think that that had anything to do with you at all. I think new leaders coming in, sometimes they clean house, you know, just to put their own people in place and hook up their friends and whatever. So I don't think it's because you were a liability or that it had anything to do with

Starting point is 00:27:30 you. So I hope that you don't lay in bed at night and think, God, if only I was just a little X or Y or whatever, I think you're great just as you are. And I just don't think it had anything to do with you. I think it was her feeling threatened. I think it was her cleaning house coming in new. I think it was her surrounding herself with her advocates and promoters. And that's just sometimes how it is. It doesn't matter how good you are. not matter. It does not matter. When you have someone in a position of power, they can make any fucking decision they want. They will do anything to get their way. And sometimes you just have, you have players like that that just, again, to Ashley's previous point about humanity,

Starting point is 00:28:14 they don't see it that way, you know, they do not care. And so I think it's wild that she told you, oh, I didn't want to embarrass you. Bullshit. Honesty is respect and respect is honesty. And I think that's the real message here kind of at the end of this topic to leaders is that do not bullshit people. Like if you have to make a hard decision, a difficult but necessary decision or whatever, that's fine because as leaders and as managers, we have to do a lot of things we freaking hate to do. I've had to fire people. I didn't want a fire. You know what I mean? And I fought it. And I, you know, I mean, we do, we have to deliver tough messages all the time.

Starting point is 00:28:55 We have to do all these things, right? But when you do deliver a tough message, be as honest as you possibly can and enough with the bullshit. No one's buying that. At least give people their dignity and respect when you're showing them out the door. It's unpleasant, but it's also just how it is sometimes. But Jamie, I don't think it had anything to do with you and fuck her. For real, fuck you.

Starting point is 00:29:18 And don't forge. Don't forge emails. Yeah, don't alter anyone's anything. God, God. And that goes for leaders, too. That's why that's not incompetence. Because you said, oh, she made dumbass decisions. Like you said that.

Starting point is 00:29:31 You're like, you know what I mean? You're like, oh, she's not incompetent. No. She's cruel. Yeah. All that shit was on purpose and she's full of shit. She wants her way. The end.

Starting point is 00:29:43 She doesn't give a fuck who you are. She'll just move you aside. Some people are like that. My drop. Ooh, sometimes you get fired for no reason, especially if you're American. It's crazy. At will. At will.

Starting point is 00:29:59 Same day. At will. I know. At will. I mean, one thing I'll say, just to add this is people will say constantly, like, well, you know, I can't, oh, I can't do anything about it because attorneys are so expensive. Generally, most employee side attorneys will have free consultations in the U.S. And they take cases on contingency, which means it's like when you hear the commercials in personal injury, things of like, I get paid, if you get paid, if you get paid. That's how it generally works. Not always, but generally works in employment

Starting point is 00:30:23 cases. That being said, employment laws in the U.S. do tend to be stacked in favor of the employer. And so people can have that consult and say no employers, no lawyers taking my case and that can happen. That may mean it is not illegal within the U.S. employment laws, but it doesn't mean it wasn't unfair and cool. And it's not still, you know, right for you to have those very real feelings and now it just means it is time for you to figure out that next chapter. That's one thing I get sometimes. Shall we do some questions and comments? Wrap this up. Gosh. Sure. I have a question. Ooh, do ask. So this is our first episode back after a summer break and we got lots of DMs and things like that of when you're all going to be back. But what did you all enjoy or what did you do

Starting point is 00:31:16 interesting on your summer break? Ashley, I feel like you should go first because you actually did something very cool. Me? Well, okay. So I went to Alaska. So I did go to Alaska and I talked about how I was going to Alaska. I did a cruise to Alaska and I thought about playing golf. A very nice HR Besties listener wrote me a very robust email with suggestions of Alaska. It was very helpful. Another manager method follower had sent me a recommendation for a restaurant in Victoria, British Columbia, because we stopped there too, which was Wind Cries Mary, I will say, amazing. Top three dinners of my life. And so I love getting that feedback. On a professional side, my husband joined Manager Method as chief customer officer. So we're

Starting point is 00:31:55 very excited. And so we are, he's been talking to a lot. Some of me listening may have spoken to Mr. Manager Method, aka Dan. But to this point, we did, I'll say this, I add a little plug, add bonus modules to our Manager 101 course. And this summer I added difficult conversations, which includes 13 difficult conversations, including a framework for managers to have any difficult conversation in a positive way. And it does not include altering emails. So anyway, you can little plug, check it out at manager method.com. That's all I'll say there. And now we'll move on to you too. I want to go to Donali. Go ahead, Jamie. Well, we have had some construction in our backyard. And this is kind of ironic because I also was laid off. But back in February, we signed a contract to

Starting point is 00:32:44 put a pool in. Terrible timing to be fired. But unfortunately, we actually have been saving for a pool since 2019. And we already had signed the contract and we were already too much money in to stop halt the construction project. But our pool is now like going to be officially ready. And that means we can jump in it like this weekend. And I'm so excited. The kids are so excited. We're already planning parties. I just, it's something that we've wanted for a long time. And now that it's real, it's wild. So I don't know how I'm going to pay for it. But we got a pool. Don't skip the ads. Yeah. Don't skip the ads, please. Let them try to repo that shit. Yeah. Try to repo. It's already in my fucking backyard. That is a good point.

Starting point is 00:33:36 How does that is then where they fill it with like dishwasher detergent, like, womblom? cement or something. Yeah. Sand. Oh, sad. I won't give him any ideas. I'm so excited. I love, if when you follow Jamie, especially on Chief Meem officer, she'll post some pool, pool contact. I will be honest. I've loved the above ground pool, the inflatable pool, and I've loved your water slide. And so. Yes. We loved our bougie-pozy, but this is the boogie-pozy. 2.0. It is. It's next generation, Jamie, and you deserve that joy. I am excited, and I'm going to scoot myself up to your pool, ASAP. So see you then. Yes, please.

Starting point is 00:34:11 So is it bad timing, Jamie, or perfect timing, honestly? Maybe it's all supposed to work out that way. Probably perfect timing, right? Because, like, I really do feel like that. I will say something kind of cheesy, too, to kind of go with our episode. But my job ended, but I didn't. No, it's healthy. It's cheesy, I know.

Starting point is 00:34:30 But, you know, we're going to keep moving on. And whether it's me going all in on social media in the podcast or getting another job, I'm not sure what that looks like right now, and I enjoy not knowing, to be completely honest. It's a little, it's a little scary, of course, but I just appreciate having you ladies. You ladies have been a godsend during this transition period, and I've been able to vent to you guys and keep my head steady. Because there was definitely days, especially when I was going through this, that I was like, I'm going to lose it. I'm probably, I'm going to come unglued. that you have not lived until you've gotten a nice Lee voice memo reassurance.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Luckily, I was included on those as well. You deserve it, Che. We love you. Enjoy that pool. I have a pool, so I will not bitch about the maintenance of that pool right now. Yeah, I know. God. Please don't.

Starting point is 00:35:26 Thankfully, that's my husband's job. Highly recommend a pool boy. I'm just going to look pretty. Exactly. You're just going to look pretty on the outside. Exactly. What did I do this summer? I went to a conference in San Diego.

Starting point is 00:35:40 Conference was that, Lee? I don't know. Was that a pool maintenance conference? I think that probably was, huh? It was a conference for an organization I've never been a member of. I know that much. That Jamie is legally barred from being within 50 feet of things. But the reality is that that conference with its numbers is like the...

Starting point is 00:36:07 Super Bowl of HR, you know what I mean, in the sense that there's so many people that you get to meet up with, reconnect with, and all of this, and people that I work with and what I do now and all of that. So I had a really, really good time there and then spent, you know, another week in California. So I was in California a couple of weeks here over the summer. So that was that was nice and you signed a very important agreement i feel like he was in there during the break right yeah yeah yeah see i don't remember shit so thank you yeah yeah i signed a book deal with harper business besties with books yeah so flew up to new york with my agent my literary agent went to their headquarters sign that shit that was amazing so cool so now i just had to finish

Starting point is 00:37:00 shit. And it'll be out. At least we're planning the beginning of 2027. So, of course, me, how I am. I'm like, God, I hope I live till then. That is like a millennial statement, though. I do feel like that. Yes. I mean. Actually, I don't know. Honestly, that's the type of stuff my grandmother would say as well years ago. So there's a big age range. But that's relatable. The way the world's headed now, shit. Right. I know. Hopefully. Hopefully live to see it. But. We can't wait to read it. I just got to finish it. I'll get on top of there. I can write it while I'm in the pool.

Starting point is 00:37:36 Oh, love it. Love it. I'd read an HR romance novel from Jamie. That sounds good, actually. Collaboration. Actually, the three of us could collaborate. It'll be like sisterhood of the traveling manuscript. Smut.

Starting point is 00:37:52 So we walked in, we walked into the arena and we could hear Coldplay had already started their set. And Luke, Luke was in the balcony waiting. Luke embraced me from behind. No. Yeeks. With his trembling manhood. Oh, geez. Oh, geez.

Starting point is 00:38:13 Okay. You'll have to hear the rest at our HR conference, which now Lee's talking about the numbers, the HR Besties conference. After 2027, after Lee's book comes out, we'll have the big keynote at the HR Besties mega conference. So I have a quick comment. Not a question, but a quick comment. Just reflecting on the times that I've left organizations or transitioned or was terminated

Starting point is 00:38:36 or whatever, there's a part of you that really wants revenge, like if it was not so pretty. You know what I mean? Like it can inspire like these ugly feelings, you know, hate, like, anger, frustration, all of these things. But I'll just say that the only thing you can control is you, and the best revenge is your own success. I mean, feel bad for those people that they are still in that hellhole that you are transitioning out of. And karma will get them. That's what's happened to me, and it is so delicious to watch seeing karma just rip the asshole out of people. Because it will catch up with ugly people.

Starting point is 00:39:23 I mean, and when you have a toxic boss or whatever the situation was, you know, like I always think, God, but they have to live with themselves like that. Like, oh, they're so ugly. Like inside, oh, you know, that's just, oh, they already have to live like that. Like, that's, they're already getting their punishment. Don't worry about that crap. As much as you can, let that go and just focus on yourself in the future as much as you can. It's just not worth trying to live back there.

Starting point is 00:39:51 And I'll just end it with, I know I've received so many DMs from people also that have been laid off or recently let go in this job market is absolute insanity right now. So just hang in there, take breaks. I posted something like this a month ago. But allow yourself to have a day where you don't get on job boards because it's overwhelming. And you wake up and you have 30 emails saying, you know, thanks but no thanks. and it's it's a lot so if you need to take breaks enjoy things that you forgot you enjoyed maybe napping it's fun i don't get to do it quite as often my kids go back to school thankfully soon you know try to do things you enjoy i love that just be good to yourselves bestie

Starting point is 00:40:38 hi i'm tampson fidel journalist and author of how to menopause and host of the tampson show a weekly podcast with your roadmap to midlife and beyond we cover it all from dating to divorce aging to ADHD sleep to sex brain health to body fat and even how perimenopause can affect your relationships and trust me it can each week i sit down with doctors experts and leaders and longevity for unfiltered conversations pack with advice on everything from hormones to happiness And of course, how to stay sane during what can be, well, let's face it, a pretty chaotic chapter of life. Think of us as your midlife survival guide. New episodes released every Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:41:27 Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Coping With Job Loss

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