HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Hot Topics Happy Hour - DEI and Government Employees

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Today’s agenda:  Unlawful audacity: toxic boss edition Cringe corporate speak: heads will roll Hot topic: catching up on DEI Disney classics and a brief mid week happy hour What is applicable to private companies? Unconscious biases and putting yourself in someone else’s shoes Expanding talent pools to find the right candidates Red flag in leaders: ignoring beneficial hiring choices due to personal biases OSHA/agencies The attack on HR Chopping block performance and having empathy during redundancy Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  Subscribe to the HR Besties Newsletter - https://hr-besties.beehiiv.com/subscribe We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So, I've actually talked about this horrible toxic boss several times before, but I haven't told this story yet. And so, it goes like this. My youngest son, I had just had him. He wasn't even a year old yet. And this was before we knew he had asthma. And so he had gotten very, very sick. And I noticed his breathing seemed to be very labored. So I took him to the pediatrician

one morning. Of course, I called out of work and sure enough, his oxygen was very, very low and they immediately sent us by ambulance to the Children's Hospital in downtown Nashville. So he was in the ICU, he was on oxygen and breathing treatments and they were monitoring him and I was literally laying in the hospital bed because he was a small, not even a one-year-old yet at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital in Nashville. And my boss called me and asked, how long do I think I'll be out? And I truthfully did not know at that point. I mean, we had just been in the ER for about five, six hours at this point. I'm

like, you know, I'm not sure. I said, I definitely will go ahead and say I won't be there tomorrow. And then I'll keep you updated as much as I can. But I, you know, I don't know. I've never had a child in the ICU before. I don't know how this stuff works. So that was fine. She called me back not even 30 minutes later and she asked if my husband could stop by on the way to the children's hospital because he was at work and pick up my laptop. She'd meet him. If she has to stay a few minutes extra, she didn't mind. But if he could pick up my laptop so I could work. So sure enough, my poor husband goes to my job where she sent one of my coworkers to the elevator to hand, not even her, not even well wishes, hand my laptop to my husband so I could work in the hospital.

Fuck that. Please keep in mind, my job, nothing was earth shattering. There was nothing that couldn't have been handled when I got back. There was literally nothing that couldn't have waited. And that's when I knew that I had to make my exit plan. Oh yeah. I mean, obviously I wasn't going to do that right there in the hospital with my child who was clinging to life, but I could not believe that the fact that she couldn't even come out to my husband and hand the laptop to him, but she sent a coworker.

And like I said, I've had many stories about her and how awful she was, but I vowed from that moment on, and this was this, you know, he's almost seven now. So this was a good almost six years ago. I was like, I will never be like her. I will never, I will make sure I'm never like her, but I will make sure that I am teaching every leader that I have the possibility to, to not be like that. Because what was more important than that moment was my son and she should have known that. And I am a very hard worker and I probably would have tried to come back as soon as possible. But the fact that she had my husband pick

up my laptop, just, ugh. Fuck her. Yeah. I mean, that is, that is audacious. And when she called the first time, did she ask you how baby was doing? Yeah. I mean, she was like, is he okay? And I'm like, yeah, I mean, he's not great.

His blood oxygen levels up. He's not blue. Oh my God. But they're keeping him and monitoring him. And I said, I know that I'm probably not going to be there tomorrow because I'm not sure when we'll be able to be discharged. I'll keep you posted as I know that I'm probably not going to be there tomorrow because I'm not sure when we'll be able to be discharged. I'll keep you posted as I can. Oh my gosh, like a jaw on floor.

What a bitch. What a terrible, terrible person. Poster, poster child of a toxic leader. Wow. I know. And see, I've always wanted to share that story, but it's not a happy one. My son is fine. And now he has several different inhalers and he has a breathing machine. Thank goodness.

We know how to monitor it now and it's all good. But I swear, if I saw her, I luckily have not seen her since I quit. And I did quit shortly after that. I got another job within, I think, four months, four or five months. So, I wasn't there too much longer. But if I ever saw her, I swear to God, I'd probably want to like throat punch her. She sees you though. I know she sees you. I hope she sees me. Oh, yeah. Shame on her. Shame on her. But I know it's not a happy story, but it's one with like a really good lesson. And I could not imagine the fear you must have felt to have been in the hospital with your baby in the ICU and see that phone call and be compelled to answer it. Yeah, because I was terrified. Think about that, like the environment she had created. Absolutely. Which is so cruel on the employer's part, on her part for creating that environment to where you felt compelled and

obligated and required to have your husband go by your workplace and get your lab. You know what I'm saying? Shame on her for instilling such fear and control. And, you know, because if you're listening from outside of the US, just FYI, we lose our, we can lose our jobs in two seconds, you know, for zero reason, no protections here in the United States, you know. So very few, right? And so, yeah, you answer the call. A lot of the times you answer the call.

Now, what I'd share with people is, gosh, don't as much as you can, you know? Please, don't. Let them think about what's going on if you're in that emergency situation. But that is heartbreaking, Jamie. That is hashtag trauma. I mean, damn. S1 C 1 Really, it should not take situations where you see the absolute cruel poor leadership to help you understand how to be a good leader or how to advocate for yourself in the workplace or to realize like, wait, I have gone way past the point. But so often that's exactly what happens. It's those extreme examples that you all of a sudden realize, what have I sacrificed for so freaking long and And why have I

done that? And a lot of it is self-preservation and fear. So if you're listening to this, think about how you do that. Listen to our episode on boundaries and how you can, that we have that talking about that. If you search HR Besties boundaries, we talk about these things. But also if you're a leader, you likely have fears as well sometimes. And you're worried about your own boss. And so you have to be able to take a stand and know there are times, Jamie, even working, what kind of work are you going to do in the people space

when you're out of your mind with your son there? So it's not even productive. Exactly. It's not even good to have people work in that condition. Because and then, you know, because I guarantee you, every coworker knew this was happening. Nobody wants to work with you if you're a leader like that. Like we do learn from and develop and grow and evolve from trauma and abuse, but we should not have to grow that way. There are much kinder, wonderful ways to grow, evolve and transform, you know, so

shame on her for doing that. TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Oh, gosh. Well, on that note, let's kick this meeting off, shall we? Gosh, quick agenda. Thank you so much, Jamie, for that hot goss. And that was piping.

That was piping hot tea right there. Oh, my goodness. Next, we move on to Cringe Corporate Speak, hot goss and that was piping. That was piping hot tea right there. Oh my goodness. Next, we move on to Cringe Corporate Speak and that is brought to all of us by me. So I'm going to cover that today. Then we will pivot into our meeting hot topic and just an awesome surprise for you all. For those that miss our Friday happy hours,

we're going to do a special hot topic. So a little happy hour flair here, a little feel. We're going to go through special hot topic. So a kind of a little happy hour flair here, a little feel. But we're going to go through some hot topics because holy, like there is some, there's some shit going on, isn't there? And we sure do hear all of your emails, comments, DMs, you name it. And so we're going to cover a handful of those things. And then as always, we're going to shift into our questions and comments. How's that sound, ladies? Sounds great. Good meeting, isn't it? It's solid. I should have

sent out the agenda before. Apologies. You don't need to. I know it's coming and it's so in a world where what can you count on? You can count on this agenda. And again, that warm blanket of comfort. Warm hug. Oh gosh, a little cringe corporate speed. And it kind of fits with the story actually, Jamie, in my opinion. It kind of sounds like something that Toxic Boss might have said. But heads are going to roll. Have you all heard that? Heads are going to roll.

Oh gosh. And so for those that have never heard that, God, I'm happy for you. But I have heard this probably way too many times in corporate America from an overzealous, anxious, narcissistic leader. But heads are going to roll means, hey, if we don't get this shit straight, if we don't deliver, if we don't do whatever it is we're aiming to do, man, people are going to freaking pay. Like heads are going to roll. So nothing like a little medieval imagery to motivate people in the workplace to force them to do whatever it is you are trying to get accomplished. This might be the only Korean scooper I have not used.

Same. I couldn't imagine saying that. I know, right? Heads are gonna roll. Like, I mean, what? I don't have the voice for that. I don't know. Your voice could say that, but... Heads are gonna roll. There it is, Heads are gonna roll. Yeah. There it is. Heads are gonna roll bitches. Let's do this thing. Heads are gonna roll. Okay.

It reminds me of that. Remember the animated version of Alice in Wonderland? Not the in-person one through the looking glass or whatever. That's very creepy. Did you see the Jabberwocky? The OG Disney? The in-person one,. Did you see the Jabberwocky? Oh gee Disney. The in-person one, live action, is like a Jabberwocky nightmare. Nightmare level.

Will not watch it ever. Would never make my kids watch it. But the cartoon version of Alice in Wonderland, when they have the flamingos that they're playing croquet with, it reminds me of that. And that's how, I guess, it is a good allegory to corporate because that is how you feel sometimes that it's some leader with some preposterous prop is playing around with your career.

So I guess it does all make sense. Aww. And heads are rolling, those little, what are the hedgehogs or whatever? Porky pie, porky pie. Porky pie, whatever they are. I don't know. Alice in Wonderland, fun fact, my favorite Disney movie of all time. Really? Hashtag only child shit. I thought it was Alice.

Well, I mean, you are tall. You did grow like that, like the magic potion. Oh my gosh. Like I licked the thing. I'm the reverse version. Jamie and I are if you shrink us back down shorties. I'm a new balloonoo. Her photographer. Wrong movie, but you know. Wrong genre. Same whimsical feel. What's your favorite Disney movie, Jamie?

I wasn't really much of like a Disney child. No. Oh my god, I was. I don't know. I really liked Sleeping Beauty, to be honest. And I know that that was like older, but that was probably in Little Mermaid. Oh yeah. Who doesn't love Ariel?

Sleeping Beauty probably in Little Mermaid. I used to always see that in the VHS. Why am I whispering? I know. Like the naughty parts, like Lion King, like that genre when we were like in like, I don't know. Oh, I thought you meant the phallic castle on Little Mermaid. Yeah.

Yes, on the cover. Or like where the priest's wiener is popping in that one part. Okay. Oh my God. Oh my God, in that one part. That's what she said. Well, we need to research that. Yeah, in the one part.

All right. I'm going to Google this, not on my work, not during this, my work computer. Don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that on your work computer. Don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that on your work computer. Ladies and gentlemen, do not YouTube that. We will find a clip. I will try to find a clip and I will post it on H-R Bestie's stories.

We will deliver it. Do not. Yeah, we'll put it on the stories. Oh my God. So it's safest for where. We'll keep you SFW. Right? With a little weeder popping.

See? Look, we are in the happy hour mood. Look at this. Like this is how we transition in. Oh, man. This is happy hour mood. All right. We'll move to a hot topic. I like Frozen for the record. I do too. Oh, that's a really good movie too. Oh, I cry with that Let It Go. Holy shit. It's so good. The cold doesn't bother me anyway. Like, fuck you all. Oh, Let It Go. I am an end... Oh, man. Don doesn't bother me anyway. Like, fuck you all. Oh, let it go. I am an endo.

Oh, man, don't even get me started. Let them. Love. It came out just a couple of months before my second child was born. And so it was very convenient. When I was beat down, I'd love to take a nap. And family members would come into town.

I would have all of them go take my daughter to Frozen so I could sleep. There you go. So good memes. Yeah, my kids did a show here in Atlanta, the Children's Theater. That was their first show they were in together. It's real cute. My son had a little tuxedo. I've seen it on Broadway. It's magical. Oh, wow. I'd love to see that. I think New Age Disney is just so much better. And I'm not even talking about animation. I mean

like the stories because it's always very girl powered. Yes, thank God. Where the stories that we grew up with were very- Princess, us being rescued. Yeah, a princess, she meets, yeah, the Prince Charming, like I'm thinking of, you know, Belle and the Beast. Literally kidnapped. Yeah.

I'm just saying. He was cuter as the Beast. I agree. Smash. He was cuter as the beast. I agree. Smash. He was cuter as the beast than he was as a man. Smash. Smash.

Did you see the hands on that thing? Gee whiz. Damn. I'm just saying. I mean, it's because maybe they introduced some DEI into Disney, which transitioned into our hot topic. Thank you. She's transitioning us. Yeah. Take it away. DEI. Holy, holy, holy.

Okay. Big size, right? Where do we even start? I'm a diversity hire, just FYI. Okay. I just want to say it. I will start flat out with a question I have seen by now many people on social media who think they're very clever with their comment, very clever and unique because they haven't scrolled up or down and seen this as a frequent, which says, if DEI is such a good thing, why are you offended by the term DEI hire? Heads will roll. Perhaps because that is used as an insult and suggesting anyone that does not look,

sound, act, walk, talk, anything like you, you are assuming they got the job for something other than their qualifications. And that's what it says. Thank you. I will start with this and I will bring in words of a friend. I won't quote it. You can go back on my social media from about a week ago where a friend made a post and allowed me to share it anonymously. But this overall thing is like, God, I made a video about DEI. And one of the things I made is, and we've gotten a lot of questions on this, and one is all of these executive orders and things coming out, aren't these just applicable to government agencies and contractors? Is anything applicable to private companies, meaning like for-profit companies? And the answer is yes. And again, there's a lot of executive orders. So like by no means I or any of us encyclopedia on these things. But in one of

the executive orders, I think it was on January 21st, and it was the one about DEI in particular. There's a section in it that says, I think it says like encouraging private companies not to do DEI paraphrasing. But it directs these government agencies that as part of their effort to take DEI without identifying what that means, but DEI including, it does say including illegal hiring preferences, but to take that out of the private sector that the federal government in the US is directing each agency, each federal agency, to identify up to nine targets of for government investigation. And the targets are like for private companies, like bar associations, higher education institutions.

But the government agencies are all supposed to go find them to target them for an investigation and potential litigation into their DEI program. And I'd made a video, again, I try not to bring feelings on either side of it. That can be very challenging. But I try to bring this objective approach to just try to give information, like a little peek-by-peek,

because that's one of the reasons I think you're seeing some of these companies, like, speaking of Target, Amazon, Google, walk back so publicly, these DEI programs, whether it's a press release or a letter to employees, but that you're seeing them saying, we're not doing this, they're not just doing away with it, but they're making this announcement about it. And I said, I think it's because they're trying to avoid an

investigation. Because even if what they think they're doing is not illegal, they don't want to be the subject of it. Targets have on like, you know, Costco, or who's basically inviting that investigation to come in. And I did have someone who could at least claim to be an in house employment council on my TikTok that was like, I'm in-house employment council, one of these companies. And that's exactly what's happening. But I made a video about this again, literally just, hey, this is one of the reasons you may not know about this. It hasn't gotten as much publicity. The comments like DEI is illegal. DEI like, and occasionally I'd be like, tell

me what you think DEI means. And then I'd just stop engaging with dumbasses, with people. And also enough people get in there and do it on their own. But overall, things like affirmative action and quotas have been part of federal contractor programs. But the idea of DEI is so much broader than that. And getting back to what I mentioned, as a friend of mine who was a lawyer with a disability

and talked about that no matter what, there are going to be times that someone's going to look at you and they are not going to want to have you there because you're in a protected class and they have thoughts about that. And her point was people sometimes don't even realize they're doing it because you don't intend to. Mm-hmm. Unconscious bias. And that's why things like a lot of, exactly, a lot about DEI is just having an understanding

of look at this job posting. Who is this targeted to? What does this say? As you're doing things, you're scheduling meetings at 8 a.m. or 7 a.m. every day. What if people have childcare needs? You're using this language. Other times people show up, they're all white interview panel. How would that feel?

How would you feel if you show up and it's a completely all other race? You might feel differently about that in that instance. Because often people don't realize things until they learn or until it's personal to them. And so so much about DEI that still is in my estimation, my personal belief is not illegal, but a lot of this is getting stripped away. It's just this education of people to help people have an understanding to get those best candidates. You have to recognize the way that you might feel or assumptions you might make about them, and so that you're actually expanding that pool. And that's the aspect that I think the noise about DEI is so, it's just, it's so problematic because it's like, there's just so much hate in people's comments. It's so

much just flat out wrong. Like DEI is illegal. Like, okay. Well, Ashley, I mean, that's the thing is that you're coming from your background, your experience, you know, logic, a place of competence, education, whatever. And what's fascinating is the three of us and hopefully our listeners, we understand the gravity of DEI, its benefits to an employer. Like you said, Ashley, expanding talent pools so that we can get the highest quality candidate. We get the benefits. We've seen it in action when it works.

We know that it's not illegal hiring practices, right, or us targeting a certain segment of people, or whatever, right? We get that. But what's fascinating is that if you take yourself outside of you, right? Like remove yourself and throw yourself somewhere else, right? And just kind

of look, tabla rasa, just blank slate. What's fascinating is, is that the people, some of the people that are, you know, against DEI and are saying DEI is illegal, they don't care about that shit. They don't want to see anyone that does not look like them around them. It's so hard to fathom. They don't give a fuck about the benefits to an employer, their own business, their bottom line, their money. They want to be able to like higher like. They don't want the highest quality person.

They want the color 99% of the time. That's how they think of diversity. DEI to them is race. That's literally all that means to them is race. They just want to be able to hire the person that looks like them, not the most qualified. They don't give a shit about that without any repercussions. They don't want any sort of regulations on who they hire, all this. And to me, that blows my mind. So I think about this so much as one of those things that keeps me up at night. I just have to embrace the fact that people hate me and that's just how it is. People hate the way I look. People hate me right now today for just being me

in ways that I cannot change about me. And they don't want to work with me, even though I'm so much smarter than them. You know what I mean? Because I am like, yeah, I'm that diversity hire, but guess what? I was always better on paper than that guy that I was competing against, just straight facts. So I mean, I was the high quality candidate, but also the diversity hire, you know what I mean? But isn't that fascinating, like when you think that way, like people don't give a fuck about all of the benefits

and the goodness or the reasonable or the logic or all of the things. It's just literally, like you said, it's just fueled by hate, by control, by their own, like, I just want this, and that's it. To me, that is fascinating to me. That is really fascinating to me.

And really, DEI to a lot of people literally is black and white. That's it. It's race. That's it, just those two, even though we know there's millions of diversity, you know, there's lots of other things besides just that. But that's what I feel is going on, you know, when I'm reading about this debate and seeing people talk about it and all the opinions on all sorts of sides, you

know, but it's some shit. That's all I have to say. It is wild when you think like that. People just want to do what they want to do. Yeah. It's shocking to me that people don't want, like I want to surround people that are smarter than me. I want people to be smarter than me. I want them to teach me.

I want to learn. And that's not even, you know, it's like, Nope, I want to remain stupid. It's really hard. And when I do manager training, I always am trying to meet people where they are. And the people that often I try to get to are not the people that like my post in this and are like minded. It's, it's very important to be able to shift. And again, sometimes it's just 1%, you know, just think about different ways. I saw a comment from someone else,

and it was a seemingly white male that had come in and said, what DEI has meant to me has helped me to think about with interviews, how I structure questions. I've had those trainings and I've had to think about, okay, this is like the questions, this is how I think about these things. And over practice and practice, I see it.

And I just see how differently I act and how better our workplace is when I incorporate that. And I appreciated that comment so much because it doesn't take long to put, but it's just being open to consideration. I remember back, like right after, it was right after George Floyd's murder and like return to work, COVID,

like all these sorts of things. And I was speaking with a colleague, a black colleague, and we were talking about return to work, COVID, like all these sorts of things. And I was speaking with a colleague, a black colleague, and we were talking about return to work. And she said, she was like, there's, you know, there's something that return to work means to me that you probably don't know about. And I was like, what is it? And she's like, ever since we started coming back

to the office, I've been pulled over at least half the time that I've been driving in. Like, and she's like, it just has. And she's like, I thought to myself, maybe it is just because like COVID, you know, we're Georgia, we're a little funky, whatever, like a lot of states. But and she's like, have you been pulled over at all? I was like, no. And she's like, I've been asking colleagues, like, have you had this happen? And she's like, another black colleague had had this experience as well. And so it's some of those considerations to understand what that is like. People, there are people that go into that that think, well, that's not me. Not all of us are the same. And it's not a personal attack. I rarely go in. Again, there's some

people like your boss in the intro story, Jamie, who should not be a leader, shouldn't manage a paper bag. A lot of people just need to have an understanding. And one of the wonderful things about work is it is one of the very few areas of life. Unlike social media, like social media, you can mute people, you can curate your home-ole experience at work. Block. You oftentimes are thrown into people with such different life experiences.

And if you stop for a second and think about the times of people you've learned from, both professionally and learned skills, and thinking to yourself, maybe I made assumptions about them, whether it's people now that will say, like, well, older people, they're not doing technology. Well, again, mama manager method who listens to this podcast, she can school anybody in any aspect of technology. But it's just thinking about people that have broken those stereotypes.

And sometimes it's just learning in a shift of perspective. And so that's one of the things I really, really struggle with, with this whole aspect of like, now there's email addresses to report, like potential DEI, if there's anything about DEI. And so there's now there's this fear of not wanting to have topics, black history month, like stripping these things away, stripping holidays away. And people that will say these things should be illegal, like there is an understanding

of why these things exist and that for so long there are people that have suffered things. There are people that have had amazing inventions that didn't get the kudos that they should have because other people wanted that. And so just that understanding awareness, it doesn't have to be an attack on you. Some people, you may not change anything, but it's just understanding and appreciating. We all have so much more in common if you, and DEI helps in that in so many ways. It's been a real struggle for me, like from social media posting to like coping at social media to real life.

A real struggle. How are you all coping right now? Not well. Oh, man. I'm spiraling. I'm crashing out as the Gen Z would say. I'm good because meds. I'm good because I'm leaded. But no, I block a lot of that shit out, I block a lot of that shit out, that noise out. I can't do the news, you know? So I've probably become more incompetent and less in the know, to be honest, on some hot topics because now I'm only reading long articles and not getting news from social and stuff like that.

But I'm healthier mentally and that piece means a lot more to me, I'm going to be honest with you, you know, than being in the know about everything because it just eats me alive. Because people are dicks. People are selfish dicks and that blows me away, you know, it just, it's so disappointing to me. So I've created my own little bubble in a way to stay mentally sound, but you got to do what you got to do, you know? I mean, damn, I hope everyone else is taking care of their mental health with all the noise and things going on wholly. Well, knowing where you find resources. Like everyone I know that works in the US federal

government or has a relative that has, like I've heard from them, what resources? And this is not an area that I'm certainly an expert in. And the silver lining to this cloud is there's so many people going through things, whether this is probationary employees who have their employment stripped away. People are like, is this legal, is this not? Again, I can't tell you, but what I can tell you

is there are lawyers that are looking into this, that are looking closely into this. And these resources and what's gonna happen, and so there are plenty of articles and things like that. And we'll post them again when we post this, just things to look at. But the one thing that's struck me a lot that I find really unnecessary is whether you're in the private sector or public sector is the language that's used.

Whether it's describing federal workers as low productivity, literally in an executive order and this happened, you can look at this if you're not aware. Or Metta saying these layoffs were for low performers in their layoffs. And people making posts about that and saying, no, I was not. And this is my story. And so to the extent that you feel comfortable reclaiming whatever you can, and people have to make these choices, self-preservation is real.

But I've appreciated reading some of those stories that give the full picture behind it. And so knowing a couple of things, one, whatever's happening to you, finding control where you can, surrounding yourself with people that love you, thinking about what you need to, and looking, there are a lot of resources out there,

unfortunately, because these are affecting so many people. But literal basic kindness matters. Whether you are a board making layoffs by spreadsheet, or you are a government agency, like the words that you use, and if someone is using those words, and you know that does not define you, whatever, as Mel Robbins would say, let them.

That's a new, you know, number one, number one, but. And it's a lot easier to say than when it's not affecting your livelihood. But all of us, I know we hear about it a lot. And so just knowing you are not alone. To that point, questions and comments? Any questions, any comments? We always like to save some time for those.

I have one for y'all. How hard did you cringe when Mark Zuckerberg talked about how it needs more like male energy, alpha energy in the workplace? Oh God, I know alpha. That's all that's ever been in my workplaces just for the record. I mean, wow. Like maybe you're just a weak bitch. Yeah. I mean, what? That's all I've ever had. You know? So more? Really? What he means is 100%. I know. I was like... That was cringe though. To be that ugly and say something like that. Like you can't be ugly and dumb as hell. I know you're rich, but it doesn't forgive everything.

Just say you and your wife are getting a divorce. Jeez. Wait, are they? No. It was just giving that vibe, you know what I mean? Okay, so say that's the type of like, wait a second. That'll flip back the hot topic. Hold on.

Hold on, please. Like just say you have a fragile ego and you're going through some shit and feel less like a man right now. Just go to therapy. Men will do everything, but go to therapy. Holy shit. I mean, I feel like at times probably part of like my success has been being a tomboy. And when I was growing up and playing golf, like like I play golf, I do those things. And that has helped me. And I watch sports. I play golf.

Like I think about how many times like I have I have have definitely brought a, I don't know, traditionally male whatever energy. Anyway, I saw that and was like- Yeah, you bring big dick energy for sure. I think Leeta's too. I feel like I do too. Slang that big dick energy. Yeah, I've got BDE. I've got something called PPE, perfect pussy energy.

That's what I call it. It's like the female equivalent. That's what I say. I got it. It's like the female equivalent. That's what I say. I got PPE. But to Ashley's point, I think that sadly, superficially, that's been part of my professional success is that I'm six fucking foot and look down on these guys and it's intimidating. And that's that alpha male energy. Even though I just feel like I'm uniquely me and I love being you know, even though I just feel like I'm uniquely me and I love being a woman and all this shit, you know, but that's what they feel or see. And that helps. Respect wise, I'm doing air quotes because it's so faux that I've had that executive presence because

my voice is so low, you know? I mean, it's just so dumb, right? But there's the man, fuck mark. That's just ridiculous. Lee walks in and say, heads roll. Hey. Okay. Heads are going to roll. We posted a couple of weeks back a snippet of our episode, Ashley, where you're explaining where we hate the phrase, HR is not your friend. And the comments on it on Instagram were pretty gross.

I mean, we had some good ones, but it's funny how many comments were from men. The women were all like of supportive, but the men comments. So I, under humorous resources, responded to almost every single one. And one of them was like, of course, a man who's never worked one day in HR would say this. And then that man commented, that's a sexist comment. Oh, man, the irony. Oh, damn. I was like, oh, honey.

Baby's first Christmas. Honey. Gee whiz. I know. Cringe. But I'm just like, I don't, you know, it's just shocking sometimes. And sometimes it sucks to be a face on the internet because of the terrible comments.

And I'm not just talking about like of our appearance, but that sucks very badly too. But even just having men reach out to us and mansplain what we said in our video is utterly shocking. So FYI, if you're a man and you're listening to this, you do not have to email us or LinkedIn message us, something that we already explained in our video. Thank you so much. Like we said, mic drop.

Is that your comment, Jamie? I'd like to piggyback off that comment. Yeah, that's my comment. We got some funky ones. We had the person who described himself on LinkedIn as a empathetic HR leader and HR superhero on LinkedIn, who I found that. And she commented on Lee's thing and had her same picture

at the time on Instagram and LinkedIn. And I was like, Lee, this person who made a very rude comment. Called me a man. Are you a man? LOL or something like that, whatever it was. And then I looked, I was like, Lee, again, honey badger, we have each other's backs immediately. She sent that and she's like, you know, look at this bitch. And so I was like, let me look, I was like, Lee, you will die. This

person works in HR. Oh my God. And describes themselves in these terms. Mouth agape as an empathetic HR leader, HR superhero, HR superhero. Yes. You just forgot the HR diva part. Yeah, yeah. She's mostly diva. But I do want to give a quick shout out to some of the men that do support Joseph Kareener, who's of HR Bestie. Oh, yes. I love him. I read his book, it was lovely.

And I got together with him and Alex Seiler and Tracy Sponberg. If you're like, I may have seen those names on LinkedIn. Anyway, I had a very nice in-person thing. So shout out Joe in particular has been a Besties fan for a long time and he will sometimes send like really positive notes. And so it's nice to see. Yes, not all men. Oh, we have tons. Yes, not all men. Never. Not all men, but always a man just for the record. And that was my comment. We all feel it. Like we have so many supportive males out there. We love all of our besties, regardless of what you look like. Hashtag DEIB.

Okay, I like that V on there personally. So we appreciate all of you all. But my other comment was that the comments on the internets have gotten a little crazier, haven't they? Like if you go through the comment, just a little meaner, which means I think that everyone is feeling it like we were sharing earlier. People are reacting to things and having some hard times here that seasonal depression here in the US is hitting hard. So we'll get through it like sunny days ahead. Not to be toxic positive, but we'll figure it out, everybody.

And to that note, cheers on our little happy hour-esque episode here. Clink, clink, clink. Love you besties. We'll see you next time. Bye.