HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Questies for the Besties

Episode Date: October 29, 2025

Today’s agenda:  Swish swish Cringe corporate speak: fireside chat Hot topic: answering questies sent by our fellow Besties Receiving feedback: is it all worth listening to? Keeping your social media activity on the DL How to deal with the negative feedback So your work bestie got promoted... what now? What are some mistakes that we've made and how did we recover? Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrbesties.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrbesties.com/about⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  Subscribe to the HR Besties Newsletter - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://hr-besties.beehiiv.com/subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrmanifesto.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Bestie Ashley! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/managermethod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://managermethod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Bestie Jamie! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.millennialmisery.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Humorous Resources: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Millennial Misery: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Horrendous HR: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, picture this. You are in your monthly departmental meeting, and you are going over all of your metrics for the month and what you and your team did. And you hear in the background, swish, swish, swish. But you're very into your presentation, like you're knee-deep in numbers and explaining why the metrics look like this, this month. thin. Then you could only see your presentation. You can't see people's faces because, you know, it's teams and it's, y'all know. And then you start hearing people coming off mutant giggling.

And you're like, okay, I have something on my face because I can't see myself. I only see my presentation. Like, what's going on? And someone goes, there's a dinosaur behind you. My youngest, which this was three years ago, so he's eight now, so this is when he was five, had just gotten his T-Rex dinosaur costume like the day before. And we put batteries in it. It's the blow-up kind, you know. And of course, it was a teacher admin day. Of course it was because random admin days in the middle of the week

and I was working from home. And he, I guess, I put it on, and unbeknownst to me, was standing behind me literally like swishing around, like kind of dancing in a T-Rex costume. Oh, my God. It was hilarious. We don't usually record that meeting because there was like proprietary information, but we all were joking how we wish we would have recorded it because how it happened was so funny. So I finish actually, I go ahead. I finish my presentation. We move on to the next like head of their department. They go over theirs. And I'm still on camera though. And then Johnny proceeds to then get in my dinosaur costume, which that year actually won best Halloween costume.

work. But it was me riding a dino. Oh, yeah. I love those. Invite the person. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah, that's cute. So then he gets in that. And it's too big for him because it's an adult. And he's like stomping around behind me. Just flopping around. And my boss goes and puts me on, what is that? The pinned screen, I think, so that you just see him. It was actually a really good laugh. And it was truthfully, that meeting, though it does sound painful, was actually a fun meeting every month. It was the HR team. So it was all of us. And we really connected and it was a good meeting. But that just made it a little bit sweeter to have a T-Rex with tiny baby arms in the background. See, I thought you were going to say like it's the company All Hands and, you know, the numbers

you're presenting are abysmal and mediocre at best. And it's like there comes a dinosaur. Our president, our brand new president did join. our meeting that day. Thankfully, he thought it was hilarious. Like, he was giggling and laughing. People should. Because, you know, I mean, when you work from home, I think that's one of the best parts of being remote is seeing people's cats or dogs or children's pop in. Like, I love that.

I don't know. I always enjoyed that piece when I was working and I could see my coworkers little peek into their life. I love that, especially those colleagues that, like, kind of, like, buttoned up and things like that. And then you see it, I mean, you see some like kid work on the back or things like that. Yes. Humanizes them. Yeah. And even if you don't love it, I mean, you got to make space for it.

Everyone's human, you know? Yes. Because there are those people, you know, that are like, ew. Yes. Someone has a life. You should be more professional. You have children? Ew.

Like, oh, why are you calling from your bed? Because you haven't paid me enough to have an office. I'm happy. to, I'm happily to, you know, tit for tat that exchange. So there we go. TD Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit TD.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a

TD small business banking account manager. Are we ready to kick this meeting off? Ashwish, shush, wish right into it. We got a strong agenda today. First up, cringe corporate speak. I am on the docket for that. I'm all about that word. I just think that's fun to say.

That's the law and order sound. I should have made you guess. Dund-dun-dun. Oh, yeah, done-dun. I was like, no, there's only two. Yeah, you're like Da-da-da-da-da, wait, what? Well, it's so, you know, rarely does log

at its own, its own jingle. Time on screen. I'm trying to make the most of it. But so I've just added to it. Jamie, how sweet, you were not going to correct me either until I called myself out. I could see it. I was like, no, it's too.

Okay. Apologies. Right. No, that's all good. And then the hot topic of today is really courtesy of you all. Besties, we got questies for the besties. So we have a bunch of questions you all have sent us, or at least a few. I don't know about a whole bunch.

We'll answer them. I don't even know what they are. So I'm going to be surprised. So that'll be fun. And then as always, we save questions and comments for the end. Strong agenda. Then hard stop because Jamie. Jamie. Jamie, of course, she's got places to be and people to see.

She's got to go to Spirit Halloween before it closes. Yeah, but not a job. I know. You got to get some more dino outfits. Yeah. So, cringe corporates speak. I can't believe we haven't done this one yet. Fireside Chat. We're going camping at work.

And we're sharing ghost stories. We are chatting by the fire. We're fireside chatting, all intimate. chummy. I remember the first time I ever heard this, and it wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was probably like five or so years ago. I was like, wait, what? Like, I truly did not understand what it meant. Like, I thought it was truly like a fireside chat. I was like, at the meeting, like, legitimately felt so fucking stupid. Like you thought they're bringing a campfire in? Yeah. Like, I was like, oh, okay, the vibes. The vibes were going to have like leather chairs and

cigars or stuff. A girl, same. I'm so glad you said that, but I had tears in my eyes as Lee said this because exactly the same. And the first time I heard this was at Yumb Brands, which is the parent company of KFC. And in there, sadly, KFC has now left the state of Kentucky to move to Dallas. So it's Dallas fried chicken or whatnot. But there are two buildings right next to each other.

There was like the KFC building, which is kind of more like a traditional looking office building and then there's like an underground tunnel where you could go to um young brands which is like a big old like it looks like gone with the wind anyway so we had a fireside chat me asked of course i couldn't ask you know who was like i going to ask my boss chief legal officer and i was like how are they going to fit everyone she's like where and i was like the fireside chat and she you could tell a question she was like where do you mean and i was like is it the colonel sanders like because there's a museum to Colonel Sanders there at Young Brands, like, across the way. And I thought there was like a little like a fireplace. I'm pretty sure there is or was, whatever. She was like, my friend,

it is a zoo meeting or whatever. She's like, it's a virtual meeting. And just the way she looked, I mean, she was like, that's one of those questions. She's like, that's a CLM. And I'm like, what CLM? CLM? Career limiting move. Oh my gosh. So luckily we had a, I mean, we had like a legit good laugh about it, but a few things over the years that I did that she would be like Ashley again with the CLM. Oh, damn. Yeah, like it was a joke, but

same. Me and you both did not know what that is. Hopefully we've taught somebody that is listening to the pod. Yeah, because Lee, have you experienced one of these and was there a fire? No, there's never been a fire. I never thought there would be a fire. Just for the record. Okay,

Lee's smarter than us. I just took it to me an intimate chat. like a real chat, like a family would have around the fireside at Christmas. The toxic family. Announce the layoffs like a true family does around. Exactly. Oh, gosh. I do love a good fireside chat, though.

Of course, I have a fire pit. You don't have to ask me twice. It's 85 degrees. I'll go light it up. But it's deceiving. I don't like it because it would be fun if we did it, but it's not what it says it is. Oh, you're wanting s'm spores and shit. Of course, I just bought some marshmallows.

And bunnies. We mean bunnies. We roast in bunnies. Remember when we were in Colorado? Oh, yes. And we sat by the fire and there was bunnies everywhere. Yeah, they were cute. We didn't fry the bunnies.

They were just hopping around, around us by the fire. Colorado was not a fireside chat with my besties in me because it was a fireside chat with these two men talking to me. I wanted to pick our brains about the podcast and you know of who has a yes face. Here I am. I mean, Lee was literally right there next to me, and she was... I literally turned around. I just totally moved. I just turned around and walked off. Lee and I had a photo shoot. We just ignored them. Oh, what's your podcast? Are you successful? What do you, what do you, can you, we want your tips.

We have a podcast. I think it would be pretty popular. Okay. Okay. Lee's like, no, it wouldn't. Nope. No, no. No, but do the best part of this whole story is when those girls walked up to us. They're like, oh, my God, hey, our besties. And the men were like, oh, so people like know you? They were shook. That was satisfied. But it was pretty funny. Literally, it was just like Lee and the badges with the conference blocking it.

You're not scanning me. Jamie, I thought I had Jamie and me with the yes face, but she has a no face when she needs it. I don't. Yes, I can turn it off real quick. I was, Lee and I decided to have a photo shoot. I was taking pictures of Lee with the, like, the glare of the fire. and oh yeah the flames of the fire the glow love they took the fire I took the chat not by my side fire side and then she chatted that's why I got the nickname HR destiny

that's right the guys are like oh is that HR destiny sure whatever just don't call me late for dinner fuck oh man that's going to be your new money making account I was going to say that's the O.F. That's my O.F. The feet picks. Oh, gosh. I'm going to buy that domain right as we talk. Continue, ladies. H.R.Destiny.com. Oh, man. Don't get people all excited out there now. I'm going to start getting DMs about that. Where's that HR Destiny private account at? Ashley owns it. I'm going to sell it to Lee. It's Ashley owns it. She's holding it ransom for 5K.

100% no discount No discount for you Oh man A girl can dream H.R.Distney.com Okay, purchase No, you were not She did, she just did

I know she did Oh my gosh, the way you buy domains unhinged This podcast, this episode's unhinged How many are there now? 100? People wait, wait, was it, people are asking us

for Oh my gosh, H.R. Destiny dot com is taken. I bet he bought it. One of those guys bought it. I know. Oh, shit. Okay. I haven't got an email from him yet. Maybe I bought it. You bought it already. She's got so many. She doesn't know. Probably. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, we're showing ourselves as the authority figures here, so people are reaching out to us for advice. So should we give them some advice? Yeah, sure. What the hell. Questies for the besties. I love a rhyme. Lee, you want to start us off with actually one? I know you were saying you didn't know, but there was that one DM that you've gotten, that you'd

gotten. I feel like that could actually be a bit of a questy situation if you want to do the hint at the story time and about the worst colleague, the worst colleague ever. Yeah, I won't read it because it is a bit long, but someone had reached out to me basically with the question about who they should take advice from or not because they were out with their family and a friend of theirs approached them. said, hey, oh, a acquaintance of ours wanted me to tell you, friend, the person who de-empt me, the follower, that she's been seeing you on LinkedIn, liking posts and commenting on, you know, all these leadership experts, pages, you know, like the Bernay Browns of the

world and Patrick Lansioni and just, you know, just this laundry list of people. And also Lee and and the besties. And she wanted me to tell you that you shouldn't be doing that because it's career limiting because you are showing future employers. Not kidding, when I say this, you are showing future employers that you care about equity in the workplace. Um, yes, correct. And that could be a CLM. Oh, my gosh. And she was floored. And she was like, wait, wait, what? Like, why is that coming secondhand? that's weird. But why wouldn't I want to just be me? I mean, I'm liking something of someone's, and I agree with what they say. It's my values. Why is that bad? Right? Putting that out there, putting myself out there bad. You know, and then, you know, she went on, you know, to ask about

feedback and I gave her advice that, well, I don't take feedback from people I don't want to be. And that's incredible advice, Lee. Like, that's incredible. Like that right there, get it tattooed on your forehead. But, I mean, you know, it's true. You know, not all feedback is worth a damn. And not all of it comes from a good place. It's typically someone else's projection onto you, you know. So that was really the question there is, how do you know when feedback is good feedback for you or not?

and do you take all the feedback that you get, should you? Thoughts on feedback, ladies? I think early in my career, I don't think I realized that. So I listened to things that I shouldn't have. And a lot of it was, you know, I joke that I'm 100% me, 100% of the time. And so really early in my career, I thought I had to mask my personality and who I was because I had to be professional. But I think you can be both.

You can still be a little silly, goofy girl and be professional. You have to know, obviously, when to turn in on and off. I'm not going to, in a termination meeting, be like, ha-ha, see you later, alligator. But, I mean, I wish I would have known that early in my career. It took me a while to learn that. Because, you know, you think all feedback is good feedback or it's constructive and it's not. It's definitely not all constructive. I think especially as early in your career, but sometimes your whole career, you do feel like feedback. You have to take the feedback by people senior to you. And it's always a bit of a decision tree because everything you do and what you choose to listen, like there can be consequences. And so your boss or your boss's boss's boss or just someone generally senior in the organization says something. There's times for self preservation. You're like, okay, well, I'll do that or I'll do that. You know, this person has communication this way. So I'll use that when I'm communicating with them.

But it is this inclination as well for a lot of people, I think, that you feel like you need to be liked. I mean, we've all learned this, you know, one of the quickest ways to have a thick skin or realize you cannot please everyone is to post anything on social media. But you tend to learn that, even aside from that at work. And it's when you hear things like that, it can, it's so personal and it can really hurt. And some of it's nonsensical, but absolutely there probably are, like that advice is actually probably valid, that if you are engaging and following with people that are, whether it's, you call them thought leaders or just other people putting content on there, there probably are people that would look at that as a negative. Those are probably people whose opinions you should not listen to or care about.

And that says a lot about the environment that they create. Or work for. Yeah, I'm not working for that. And it's a privilege to be able to make that choice. Sometimes you have to be like, okay, well, I need this job right now. And so if that's happening. But I do think on the flip side, if you're giving advice to people, I mean, it is fascinating. And I mean, at work and in life, the advice people will give you that you're like, what made you possibly think that is like necessary kind, any of those helpful in any glimpse?

But when you tell people things like that of like, oh, we were having a conversation about you, I mean, whatever you're pretty much going to say afterwards is like out the window. The biggest thing is like, what have, what, huh? How did this conversation come about? What led to that? And so just think, there's so much advice that just doesn't need, doesn't need to be given. This is particularly, I can never say that word right, particularly cruel because, you know, this person that DM'd me, our listener, one of our listeners, shout out, I know she's hearing this. She is job seeking, and they said the reason why she has yet to find a job, I don't know how long she's been looking, is because of her activity on LinkedIn. And to that, bullshit, bullshit, that is cruel to say. I mean, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

Right? So surround yourself with the right people. Because remember, you're a reflection of who you surround yourself with as well. I mean, who wants to be around those negative people like that? You know? I mean, damn. They're having combos about you, gossiping about you and then saying, you know, you can't get a job because you like a post about treating people with respect at work. Wait, what? Like that makes no sense. That makes no sense. That makes no sense. it is amazing i mean i know for my instinct like sometimes the busier i am the more i'm like looking for a distraction or like some new story about a celebrity yeah oh what's the like what's this deep dive or i think about like what was the name of my like third grade teacher's husband like that's the times that i feel like you're like you know really searching for that and to know that about yourself is is probably good and to stay on track but also when people have things that they need to do one of the easiest things is to try to to give advice to knock someone down a few pecks And so please resist doing that, especially when you have someone who is job-sinking,

whether they're job-seeking because they're out of a job or they need to go to a new environment. Your experience is not the same as everybody else's, and your mindset is not the same as everybody else's. And so trying to paint this picture is not. And so there's a real difference between you are liking these people that are talking positively about work and that's going to look negatively on you, okay, as opposed to advice of someone that's doing things that are actually objectively damaging them.

So if other people are going to judge them poorly, okay, well, that's, that's ridiculous. But again, that's probably a sign of places that people do not want to work. I even have experienced this, but it was with my own content. So I know at my last job I worked with, when I was employed, the executive team used to like to send my memes around and they would laugh at it, but none of them could like them because they were so worried that an employee would see that they liked one of my memes. whether that was on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, et cetera, because they were worried. Like, you know, it's just funny, silly stuff, but they were worried. And even after I left, and obviously we had that episode about my layoff story, and I've told, I said this on the pod, but they were watching my LinkedIn to see who that was currently employed was liking my freaking layoff story. Like, y'all get a fucking life, please.

No kidding. What I have found is that I have never received bogus feedback or constructive feedback or negative feedback or just WTF feedback from somebody that was more successful than me. Never has that happened. That has never happened. But it's true. It's always people that are doing way less than me. Why is that? Or if they consider themselves financially successful, they're giving that up for all other aspects. If they don't have relationships, they don't have self-value, and so success, as a 360, they are missing big, big, big pieces of that pie. Yeah, like the values part. Why is that? Jealousy. Jamie, tell us. People want something you have.

Yeah. So they try and tear you down to bring you to their level. Because there's people that literally go through life. Like, I don't think to the three of us, we're just not like that. so we don't go through life just plotting our next move in a mean way. We're plotting our next move for our future and our success. Or ourselves, yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Imagine if you turn that energy into focusing on yourself. I know. Think how successful you could be. Yeah. Instead of tearing other people down, that's a losing battle. There's way too many people out there. You can't tear down 8 billion people so that you stand tall, please. We get these because we'll be talking on the podcast about things and we'll get

sometimes comments on our HR besties, social media or individual, I probably get it a little more than others because I do these HR role plays. But the comments saying, right, HR's never like this. H.R.'s this. And we'll say, like, those, while those used to hurt and be frustrating, again, one, you realize that means people have probably had a bad experience or the family members have had a bad experience and they're applying that to everybody. But also my question is, okay, let's say that that has been your experience. And so everybody has choices to make. So I spent years in corporate and legal in HR and everything I do on my videos, everything we talk about in the podcast. I mean, I did in real life to try to find good resolutions for people.

And I'm not alone in that. I know Jamie and Lee have done that. And there are plenty, plenty of others. But I found myself doing this. And at a certain point, I thought, you know, I'd like to start a company where I do this and show how other ways it can be. And so you have a choice. And so we have each made the choice to put ourselves out there in a way that talks about how things can be different. gives people tips and tools. That's why every week we do things with a newsletter and a social media.

This is not all for the money-making enterprise. It's certainly not what it is. But the choices that we make to do that in the face of every single time comments about like, oh, things aren't never like this, all that. Like a lot of people in their professions face that. I mean, we see that on a public scale because it's social media. But there are people, plenty of you listening, whether you're in HR or other roles, you're coming and doing your job and people are assuming the worst in you. And so just stopping in thinking, those that you work with, those that you interact with, just think for a second. Maybe they're doing the best they can and maybe they're putting a voice out there and they're completely different than anyone I've experienced. So if you take that pause,

I think it can help the mindset and maybe stop the comments like this follower, reader had, but just create a much more positive environment by not always assuming the worst and thinking about what could be. I've recently heard from more than one listener in HR. Ooh, we heard Gusto sponsor the podcast. We love Gusto. And I'll ask, what do you love about them? And often it's something like this.

They make the really hard stuff so much easier. Because Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use. so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. You can save time with automated tools built right in, offer letters, onboarding materials, direct deposit, and more. In migration, switching to Gusto is quick and simple. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running really fast,

and you don't pay a cent until you run your first payroll. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash HR Besties and get three months free when you run your first payroll. three months free payroll at gusto.com slash HR besties. One more time, that's gusto.com slash HR besties. Any other questies we have from besties? So we got another quick one of someone that is in a situation where they say, I have had a work bestie. This is my work bestie. We've had great times together, but also notably we've vented to each other time and time again. We've also root for each other's success. But my work.

bestie just got promoted. And so now I report to her. And I'm happy for her, but I'm worried that she's going to take my venting as negativity, or we're not going to be able to have the same relationship. Do my besties have any advice for me to keep my job and not lose my friend? Well, instantly, I was about to say, you have lost your friend. You have lost your work, bestie. That is no longer your work bestie. That is first and foremost your manager now. And that is a different type of relationship. If you want to stay employed, healthfully, but I would have the conversation. I wouldn't assume or whatever. I would say, man, congratulations. And I know this changes our relationship. It needs to, right, so that we can work productively in this new

dynamic. I hope that, you know, the things we've discussed before, you know, they kind of stay in the fault as before I give you all the opportunity to lead me and to lead us. And I believe in you. And I know you're going to turn things around that we've bitched about before and I can't wait and I'm here for you and I support you. Like I would have some sort of conversation in my first one-on-one with that new, with that new manager of mine. But the dynamics need a shift, especially if there's other people on that team. And as the manager, your work bestie should, she should probably even bring that up in the conversation first, in my opinion. But sorry. Sit down and have a fireside chat about that because there he go.

It ain't going to be the same. It won't be. And that's okay. I think the one flip I have of that is if you're the manager that's promoted, you likely feel awkward as well. But having that conversation with your team member, and we have the episode on friends, friendship at work and friends at work. But sometimes it's different when you come in and make your friends.

It's different when someone gets promoted into that role. But so as a manager, I think having that conversation and being clear about that as well, not we can't be friends anymore, but this is it and have some of that reassurance. It's like I know if you, because if you've vented to each other 24-7 in the past saying not pretending like that's happened, like we can't vent any more to each other, but saying, I know we've vented to each other in the past. Now I'm in more of a position where I can do something about those things. And so I have to balance that between still the venting and in that and thinking about what I can do things about and trying to figure that out. And so that's one of the things I want to focus on. And so our conversations may not be as much back and forth.

I may have the flip to me, but what can we do about that? But that's also a reason because now if I'm in the position to make a potential change, then I'd like to do that. It's not just the back and forth where we just commiserate. One last question, maybe we'll have for this episode, as someone said, what are the mistakes, a mistake that you all have made at work and how did you recover from it? Like just today? Oh, man.

Mistakes are just opportunities for learning. I've done a lot of those. If you're not making mistakes, you're not growing. you're not growing, you're not advancing. Love making mistakes. Love fucking up, because it means I'm doing something. I'm taking action. And I'm a risk taker.

I have really extreme impulsivity, just FYI. But, yeah, I've made a lot of mistakes. I'm trying to think of one that's, that's, I can share. Yeah, me too. You got one, actually? Well, I was on a call recently and someone was like, what about that story with Jamie, sending the email with the subject lines, send in the list of email subjects to get people's attention, like, I have your daughter in the

basement and pictures of your wife with man. I was like, no, no, that was me. Oh, that was a good one. She was like, no. I was like, no. So that was, so that was my mistake, I'd say, putting that in writing and not realizing who it was going to. And I know some are in HR, some are, when I was a lawyer, I was living abroad in Australia and working. And I tried to pride myself on being fast. And that's important. And it can be important based on the environment, but don't sacrifice speed for quality. And so I had one time was like literally reading through, it's like a contract for telephone services or something like that. One of those that's like, you're beholden does for a million years you can never get out. And so our head of IT had asked like, hey, what are our

options? Like, what does that look like financially? And so I had read it and they'd send an email. It's like, this is, like, this is determination is what happens. And I got an email back later that day or the next. And he was like, hey, he's like, I don't mean overstep. I know you're the lawyer, but I read it differently. Like I saw this and I just wanted to double check. I mean, literally, I had completely missed a provision in this contract, and in part because I had things I was trying to get through. I'm trying to do things before I get the kids from school, and it's US time and all of this. So I'm trying to be responsive. And I was mortified, like, picked up the phone and called, and I was like, you know, I'm so sorry. I was like,

I normally very much pride myself on attention to detail because that's one of the things that's like, it feels like a non-negotiable. And he's like, hey, hey, it's okay. He's like, don't worry. He's like, I'm not, and he's like, I'm not going to tell anybody else about this, which is really important work, best behavior, because that's something people would be like, this dumbass. Our little secret. But, I mean, it just literally was a flat out mistake. I hadn't taken the time and hadn't read it properly. And I was so mortified.

And of course, that then changed ever since. I would like, double check, go back, take time, take five minutes, go back and read things. But I remember the grace in that moment. I was so appreciative. I'm like, I glad you did. And he's like, I thought about beforehand because he's like, you know, she's the lawyer. So who am I? But I figured out double check.

And he, to this day, is super friendly. and I just appreciated the way that he dealt with it. I love that. I did think of a mistake. I have probably many, but I thought of one that was like a learning moment for me. It was early in my career. I was in charge of the dependent audit,

which this is when I worked in benefits, and we had to verify that your wife was your wife, your child was your child, et cetera, et cetera. And we were nearing the end of it. Wait, now can you stop and tell how you do that? Yeah. So this particular time, and I'm not sure, a lot of actual companies do it now, like the Cigna and the Blue Crosses, they actually do it now.

But this was way back in like 2007. But we had people mail in copies of like their marriage certificate, birth certificate, divorce decree, like, I mean, all the things. Anything that would say that that child is yours or that's your stepchild or you're the guardian, legal guardian. This was when I was at tractor supply and huge company, way bigger then than it was now. in charge of this audit. And we were nearing the end of the, you know, the last day that you, well, it had already passed, the last day of documents. We were still like, you know, babysitting a few

people like, hey, knock, knock, knock. And I learned a lot about common law marriages and states during that audit. Yeah, it was very interesting. Anyway, we were reaching the end. And at that time, I was to mail out the letters of people that we were dropping coverage on because they didn't provide any kind of certification for, and I mailed them out because that's what was on the timeline. And my boss flipped her shit on me because I didn't tell her I was going to mail them and she wanted to give people more leeway. And I just was so rigid on this timeline. I thought I had to, I didn't even think to ask her. I just was like, well, the timeline says by this date. And so I personally, like, called people and was like, we're so sorry, you know, I sent the letter out.

But, like, I just felt like complete shit. But I learned from that that sometimes it's better to just ask, just double check, especially in something as big as, like, having a whole family lose coverage. Because I would have known if they were on leave, but I'm thinking, like, shit happens, right? maybe this person's out on leave and they know they have not gave a shit about collecting their marriage license and their children's birth certificates to send copies. So we gave people leeway, but I just remember just feeling like the worst employee ever because I fucked up and I sent out these letters about people losing their coverage and we weren't prepared at that particular moment to turn off coverage. I know some people flip their shit. Yeah, it was like 20 people

too. In the grand scheme of things, that's pretty, that's like a lot of people. But I did profusely appellate. I was like sobbing too. You know, like, how old was I, 20 something? But it's, but also it's, I mean, part of it is such a instructive lesson, not just for you, but for your boss, when you're explaining something and doing that, because it's also so much of the time, you give someone a timeline. And they're like, the timeline has ended. Now it's time to send. You know, and I think I was early in my career that I thought there was no gray area here. And that was really my bad. Lee? I was just thinking about I did trust somebody I shouldn't have at work, someone who pretended to be a work bestie. That's really the first one that came to mine and was manipulating

me and working very aggressively to get me fired, like was slandering me behind my back and defaming, whatever the right term is, Ashley, you tell me. Was it written or verbal? I got you, a legal definition right here. How pathetic is that, right? But what I learned from that is, shame on her not shame on me for trusting somebody yeah like yes i could be maybe more alert uh next time at least now i know hey that's a possibility that someone could do that to me because i had an experience that before at least not that i knew but how gross on her part not gross on me for being a good person who trusted and believed in somebody um but what a fucking bitch like okay yeah i mean i hope you're enjoying that shit place to work like yeah you got it buddy you know

like enjoy that but uh so i with that one came to mind the mistake is trusting somebody that didn't deserve my trust at all but i didn't know you know but i also like that your approach isn't to never trust anybody again but that's sometimes is there's is knowing like ultimately shame on that person and that doesn't mean that you can never it means it also means it does mean okay being aware of what could happen, but so many people I do think have one experience. And they become, and they allowed themselves to become hardened and in that approach only ends up hurting you in the end. Absolutely. Just remember, you didn't take those bad actions. You're not the bad actor. Why would I penalize me and everybody else that I get to meet and have the privilege

of meeting after? You know what I mean? Like, it's not their fault and it wasn't my fault. I wasn't the one who was a bitch doing sneaky, shady shit, you know? That's crazy. how people do that, like, because she was threatened by me and thought I was going to get the promotion or whatever, like, what? Like, grow up. Who cares? Oh, gosh. Questions and comments? I do have one based on what you just said. Oh, perfect segue. How do you pronounce the word P-E-N-A-L-Z-E-D? Oh. Penalize. Okay.

Penalize. So, Jamie, what do you say? This is just a conversation in my house. Penalize. Penalize. Don't penalize me. You say penal, don't you? I do.

I do. It's like that umbrella bullshit. Oh, God. Fuck, man. Who knew they were controversial? Yeah. For you all, some of y'all have seen it. And I've been working with some HR people and I bring it out.

I'm like, oh, I saw that video. I'm like, yeah, okay. I made a video recently about, umbrellas. And my whole point of it was crazy because my daughter, who's teen, wouldn't carry an umbrella. Then I saw somebody walking down the street porn, won't carry an umbrella. And then my, my 22-year-old friend who's on my tennis team, she and I both had them. And I was like, oh, so you will carry one? And she laughed. She's like, I just told my friend, this is a sign of growing up. She's like, no, in high school, college, never would have been caught. And I'm like,

she's like, they were so embarrassing. And I was like, what? I was like, it's more embarrassing to be wet? And she's like, no, what are you talking about? So I made, like, a video on the weekend on my channel, people's opinions are wild about them, but also people's opinions and how I pronounce the word umbrella. People like, she's pronouncing it that way on purpose. I'm like, umbrella. What do you mean? Umbrella. I'm like, Rihanna, umbrella. Now you're going to start this shit again with penalized, huh? That's, but I said it. My kids started laughing and they're like, what? Pina, of course, laughing. Like, what are you talking about? Penalized. And I was like, Huh? And then I was like, then I started thinking about it because the penal code in the law is penal. But then penalty is penalty. So now I'm all up. So I meant to look it up. But instead of looking it up, I'll ask my two. So I'm going to say, I'm not going to say penalized. I'm going to still say it all big cringe. I know. No, I say penalized. So let us know. Besties. I don't know how to do the, you know, the U over the E. Like, I don't know how you pronounce the word phonetically things. Yeah.

So you're a penalizer? I try not to be. Of course. Rarely do I say that word. It was like one of the few, I think I was talking about something else. That's why the kids hadn't heard it. You know, they'd gone years of their life without me getting all harsh like that. But penalize.

I'm going to penalize you. Oh, gosh. Well, I've got a question from another bestie. Then I'm going to slide into the cues and see just real quick. It should be an easy one. A bestie out there got a job offer and accepted it. And then something happened. and she needed to back out.

How do you do that? And does that reflect poorly on you forever? Does that go on a written record or anything if you accept an offer and then you don't take it? I mean, I'm with the feeling as shit happens, you know, things change. They can, at the drop of a hat, I think no, not necessary. It's not going to reflect badly of you in like a system, but if that recruiter is still there or that hiring manager, they might hold a gross. And you can't help that.

Because they might not be as understanding, whether it's, you know, shit happen or you got a different offer that's better or something. You know what I mean? I mean, you can't control that. To the extent there's hiring managers that like send it to HR or someone like, put this on a do not hire list. I think a lot of HR is like, okay, that doesn't really exist. But okay, cool.

Yeah, blacklist this person. I'm like, there's no such thing, but okay. One of the things I had heard once, and I'm probably a little bit of split opinion on this, but I do think it can be affected. objectively, I do think if something's really bothering you, you need to have the conversation, have the conversation. One of the worst things you can do in this that's totally human, but is to avoid the conversation and like send an email or things like that. And that, I think if you ghost, yeah, ghost, just send a short email of things like that.

I mean, maybe there's situations you do that, but generally I think you're going to want to have a conversation and the advice I'd gotten that I'm a little split on is if you're worried about something, over-apologize for it and be like, I'm so, So, like, my stomach is nuts having this conversation and that people tend to be more receptive in that. Like, I think that can help. I mean, overall, like, just recognizing to the person, like, this is it. And if it's a life situation, sharing what you're comfortable with, if it's a financial

situation, again, pegging to that to say, I know, I know this, I was excited for this, but I've gotten this opportunity and I can't, you know, X, Y, Z. I do think that can help up, but my biggest tip is to actually having the conversation will generally be more helpful and expect a response of them telling you to F off or whatever. But if you do phrase it in the right way, I do think people tend to be receptive. Lee? Yeah, no. I mean, I told them, hey, shit happens, like Jamie said, you know, and it's your life and

you get to do what you want in it. No hiring manager wants a new employee that's got one foot out the door already the first day. But I just said have the conversation, but do it ASAP because chances are the employer, they still have warm candidates. They have runners up. I mean, they can probably fill that job. an hour after they get off the phone with you. But what I said was this may be your first rodeo and you feel ashamed and guilty that you need to do this.

And, you know, you're like, oh, I'm freaking out about it. But it ain't the employer's first rodeo. People back out all the time. People ghost. Please just don't do that. No need for it. Just say, hey, shit's changed. Got it.

Thanks for letting us know ASAP. You know, sorry we didn't get the chance to work with each other. You know, it's okay. It is okay. Life, you know? Jamie, what do you got? Any cues and Cs to close us out? Yeah, I had a quick question that kind of goes back to our opening story. What is your, or has been, your favorite Halloween costume that you've worn?

In 2009, it was the height of John and Kate Plus 8, but this is also right after they'd split. And so I was Kate Goslin, and my husband, Dan, was John, but I was Kate Plus 8. on my name tag, and he was John minus nine on his at one point, I had him do a cameo. I had John Gosselin do a cameo for Dan one year. You do love a cameo. You do. A domain and a cameo, and I'm having a great day. I have a picture in here somewhere.

I'll put it on our besty social of my Kate hair. Oh my God, I love that. I had really badass outfits growing up. My mom would make them. Yes, my mom did too. And would sew and all, you know, like I had some. cool shit growing up. But I think my favorite as an adult was the ones I can share. How about that? I've been to some, oh, but anyway, that's a different conversation. That's a bestie's

chat combo. Learning about Lee. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's my HR Destiny account. Okay, you got to pay extra for that shit. Okay, that shit don't come free on a podcast. My favorite was Gamora, like from Guardians of the Galaxy. I did that a couple years ago. Oh, yes. I've seen that photo. I know. I look hot as fuck with the gun, the blazer thing. And the hair, you know, I never wear wigs. And I just love that. I was just like feeling it. I was feeling it. Yeah. Love. Love her. So hot. We'll share that photo. I want to share that photo a few times. Yeah, share that photo. But you, Jay. My mom made amazing costumes for me growing up, like numerous every year. But probably my favorite was when I was the Statue of Liberty. Because my dad had to get. in on it and make like the crown and the, I don't, what is that thing that she holds? I don't know. The torch. The fire torch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he made my crown. I think I have a picture of it

somewhere. But that was like, I don't think I appreciated it as much when I was like six or seven whenever it was. But thinking back on it, I'm like, wow, they really went all out on this costume. And then probably my favorite adult costume was last year when I was Missy Elliott from the I can't stand the rain video. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. Love it. Hopefully best you share theirs with us. And keep sharing those questions and all those fun, crazy workplace experiences. We love to hear it. Blue skies.