HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Questies For The Besties and Cheers to Season 4!

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Why Ashley never became a screenwriter Cringe corporate speak: deep dive Hot topic: answering all your burning bestie questions and saying goodbye until next year What were the funniest or most surprising moments in our HR careers? Which episodes were our favorites? Top choices for an HR Besties celebrity guest? What are the biggest misconceptions about HR? How do we unwind after a day of work and HR-ing? What policies would we mandate in an ideal workplace? Trends we're excited about? Advice for anyone interested in pursuing HR as a career Questions/Comments  We hope you join us again in January, Besties! Until then, please indulge in some well deserved R & R... Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  Subscribe to the HR Besties Newsletter - https://hr-besties.beehiiv.com/subscribe We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So when I was growing up, I always wanted to be a screenwriter. I had dreams of this. I went to a performing arts school, did playwriting. And I always say, like, I went on and went to college and did corporate and it just kind of like drifted away. And I don't know why I never did it. But I think I do now. Do tell.

So when I graduated college, the summer after college, I had a job. So I was working in Louisville at a large law firm. A friend's mom was a partner and got me a job as an HR intern. So I learned the ins and outs of HR, which in decent part had to do with making a binder for the HR director of potential itineraries I had for her birthday trip that was coming up. And I think it was one of those things where she was like, oh, if you have any time, any ideas on a girl's trip, and of course I take it on as a mission.

So I remember printing, I'm like taking up, I'm sure someone had a really important deadline, but I needed to print out a bunch of orbits, potential itineraries and flight options and things, and I put them in a binder. But while I was there, even though I worked with NHR, I got to know some of the lawyers. In particular, I was going to go to law school or intended to go to law school. So there was this one lawyer that I like totally had this like, you know, kind of crush on. And it sounds kind of funny because I was like 22. I wasn't like, you know, 15 or 16, but I kind of acted like it because I had this in my mind.

But of course I let it slip because I can't keep things to myself. So I told this woman working in HR who was not my boss, but was like working there. I was like, I kind of like him. So she's like, oh, you should tell him how you feel. Oh, like a senior HR person. Well, yeah, more senior than should have told me that tell them how you feel about them. Like a senior HR person? It's encouraging you to...

Two more senior than should have told me that as a 22-year-old intern. So I was like, you think so? And so we had an outing one day, it was like the whole firm outing, and they invited everybody, which was nice, not just lawyers, but so were there. And so this person, I don't know if she'd had a little bit to drink, but she walks by and I happen to be sitting and talking to this guy. She points to the two of us and was like, ooh, this. But so this, we have what I'm sure he would describe as a friendship, like friendship, you know, things.

So one day I'm talking to him and I'm like, yeah, I want to go to law school, but I also really want to be a screenwriter. And he's like, oh, that's cool. Like, have you ever written anything? I'm like, yeah. He's like, I'll read it. I'm like, okay. So instead of having anything, which I did have things I'd read, I thought this was my moment. So your girl went home that night and wrote about 10 pages of a screenplay. That was not even coded. I mean, I did not use real names, but it was 100% basically a screenplay, clearly going to be about office romance. Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm embarrassed. And I did not put it in a binder. Like it was a trip itinerary, probably a manila folder.

And I gave it to him. And I think right the moment I gave it to him and I walked away, I think I thought, should I snatch it? And I probably should have. Because do you know what he said about it? Nothing, because he never spoke to me again. I'm so embarrassed. Like my cheeks are turning red. Oh no, the-hand embarrassment. I mean, what was wrong with me? As I said, I was 22. I was not 16. But you know, you get that idea in your head and you get some of that encouragement.

So I have, you know, colleague in HR, Stoke in the Fire Loaf. You know what you should do? You should tell him. But I couldn't tell him, so I would write it to him. Oh my gosh. And that's that. So it was about a romance in a law firm or what? Like, was it that? I mean, like I said, it was not coded. It was very plain what I was probably getting at. I'm sure he probably read it was Smashly.

Is her name? Like, there you go, there you go. So that was, yeah, that was a problem. So yeah, there we go. So that ended my screenwriting career right there. Did you try to talk to him and like, you know, did you circle back on the screen? I mean, what happened? I think I was like, I mean, I probably should have been like, can I have it back? Because I think I wrote it on my typewriter, or my parents' computer.

I didn't even have the floppy disks out of it. At least can I remove this evidence? I'm sure it's probably in my file at that law firm. They're like, okay, she's an intern, she's moving. I'd love to move to D.C. a couple of weeks or a few weeks after this. But I probably still have a file in that law firm that's like, in case she wants to come back, probably shouldn't here. Probably shouldn't. Evidence that. 10 page manuscript. 10 things I hate about myself. Number one, I gave a screenplay to a person in a law firm.

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into our last episode of this season? The last episode of the year. Might be my last episode after I reveal my most, one of my most embarrassing stories on the air. So I'm glad to take a little pause, but man, what a year. I know. What a year. Oh my gosh.

And this episode is all about you all besties and the questions that you've submitted. That's right. This episode is all about questies for the Besties. Just a quick rundown of the agenda. We're going to do some Cringe Corporate Speak, which I am going to share. And then we will move to the hot topic, the Questies for the Besties.

And I don't know that we'll have questions and comments, right? Maybe just some quick comment closing thoughts there, since we're going to be doing questions all episodes. Well, that's not very corporate agenda meeting to be eliminating something that's duplicative. That never stopped a corporation before, but I agree. It is true. Just doing some comments.

That's true. We'll do, we'll still do questions in common. Good point. Good point. We're trying to make this as real as possible. So on that note, shall I jump into some cringe? Yes. Please.

I've already started with enough cringe. I know, we'll keep the cringe train going. But the cringe corporate speak for this meeting is deep dive. Deep dive. I've definitely said it on this podcast. I for sure have said it. I think I've said it numerous times on this podcast. I know I always say like, let's dive into this.

You know what I mean? Which I hate to say. What's another way we could say that? Why are we diving? Why are we always diving? Yeah, or even dig deep. No. Yeah, why are we digging and diving?

Yeah, just go to the, use a metal detector. Just use the scan just to stay about right at the surface and see is there anything worth digging into don't waste our time and energy. Can you all dive? Can you do dive off a diving board? No, I look like I look like a fucking fool. No, in fact, I did a swim meet when I was young and it's it was videotaped I was maybe

I don't know seven or eight and my family stillotaped. I was maybe, I don't know, seven or eight. And my family still all talks about it, you know, because of course I was last and I just was just a sack of potatoes just falling into the water, like thinking I could dive, but couldn't, you know. So that's my family's favorite video there. That always comes up, you know, but no, I can't dive. But I haven't tried since then.

So can y'all dive? No, I can actually do a deep dive in a pool. I did do a video once on my Instagram when I was doing a flip and landed on my face, but I actually can and do like a front flip, a back flip and can do like a pretty good dive. I was never on like a diving team or swim team, but it was my cheerleading background, maybe. Yeah, but I self-taught myself how to like dive and team or swim team. But it was my cheerleading background maybe. Yeah, but I self-taught myself how to like dive and flip and backflip back in the day.

Yeah. I can hardly walk. Definitely not in a straight line. But I'm closer. I'm not far off the water. You know, you're, yeah, it's not, I hit myself. It's no big deal. Like a little soft touch. There's truth to that though. Like I am so afraid of falling. I fall and it is like brutal. It's a long way down, shit. But deep dive. If you are listening to this at work, try to incorporate that sometime today. You know, we'll do the same here in this meeting. But let's dive in, shall we? To the hot topic. Do a moderate dive. A moderate dive. A flop. That's all I can manage is a flop.

But let's flop into the hot topic for today. Again, it's a fun topic. It's your questions, besties. Gosh, we just love the way you share with us, ask us all the questions. And so we have quite the list here, actually, don't we? We've received tons. So we'll just pick and choose a few, maybe take turns here, and see what we can get accomplished. I know we have a hard stop before the holidays.

Jamie's like, god, she's like, I've been trying all year. And yet still here we are. Hard stop. Right. Who wants to kick us off? Jamie, you want to go? Sure. What is the funniest or most unexpected thing that's ever happened to you in like an HR

role? Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. See, we didn't practice these before. We just pulled them up. No, I didn't. To before. We just pulled them up. No, I didn't. We'll make this as real as possible. What's the funniest thing that's ever happened to us in our careers, basically, since we were HRE?

Anything come to mind, y'all? Mine, I've told the story before on the podcast. I think it was in season one about the gentleman I was calling for open enrollment. He hadn't enrolled and I was helping him enroll for the next year and I noticed it was his wife's birthday that day and I was like, oh, it's your wife's birthday. And he was like, God damn it, I got to go to the Walmarts. And that was literally, I don't know why, but it just has stuck with me all these years because it was probably my first year in HR and it just made me giggle thinking

about it. I thought of one. So, there's not a lot of perks in HR. And the problem is I've worked in sales and so in sales you get the fun kind of perks and incentives. In HR, you know about other people's perks and incentives. They're a little bit like staring inside in the window, like, oh, sad. But we did have a vendor that took us to lunch, and so it was the CFO and myself, and it was a third-party vendor, and we actually needed to talk about things. So we went to, it was not the Cheesecake Factory, but it was the knockoff Cheesecake Factory, let's say.

Like the cheesecake, you know. Chiles. Yeah, exactly. Chiles isn't a class of all in its own. They're making a comeback. They are, literally. So we went, and the CFO and I were, and to this day, are very good friends. And so while we were there, we go around, they order drinks, and

I was like, I'll have a Diet Coke. And I could, these two vendors stare, like judgy. And of course, I'm like, is it just me? The CFO orders a water, and the vendor nods her head in approval. I'm cost $2.99 or whatever, and the CFO's pinging me a little bit, because I'm like, what was that? And I went to the bathroom, bathroom was like was she like pissed that I got a diet coke It's like I ordered a beer. She's like, I think so and but anyway, and so then when I came around I drank it And they're like do you want a refill the vendor was like, is there a charge on the refill? I was like, it's fine I don't need and they were like no, it's you know, it's not oh my god So we were laughing at this lunch

But then the vendor kept asking, like, are you guys going to have some cheesecake? Like, who's going to have cheesecake? And she kept saying the word cheesecake over and over and over and over. And so anyway, the point is it was one of those things that you're so happy to have a friend along with you, the CFO, because like, again, then we're trying to tell this story to the people back at the office who are our friends and they're like, wait, do you bring me some cheesecake?

Like, okay, what's the... And I'm like, no. You want some cheesecake? Cheesecake, want some cheesecake? So anyway, but I remember the judgy diet coke. So that's why when I go out, I'll always have water. Oh, damn. So like if you text that CFO right now, you want some cheesecake? Cheesecake. I would literally, and she'd be like, okay, cool. So yeah. Well, damn, I've had a lot of funny and absolutely a ton of unexpected things happen in HR. But one that I don't think I've shared before is I was on a business trip to Boston and

I was visiting the team that I supported up there and we all went out to dinner. And we're at a big circle table and I was talking, I was sharing something because they were asking me about Texas. They thought Texas was a desert, right? Like flat in a desert. I was like, no, oh my God. Where I'm at in Texas, there's tons of trees. It's all trees all year. Oh my gosh, it's so green, you know? And all of a sudden, one of my colleagues, she says, Oh my God, your accent is so funny. And like a really strong Boston accent, like I could barely understand her. And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? My accent's funny. Holy shit. Like I don't just something I was was like, are you fucking kidding me? My accent's funny.

Holy shit. Just something that was so funny, because of course, I'm the minority there. They all had that same accent. Like, they're all born and raised there, and it's just a really strong accent. And I don't think I have an accent. And so for her to be like, oh my god, your accent's so funny.

Oh my god. I was crying to be called out for that. Like, oh, like that was the funniest dinner party ever. And then of course I was judged for eating the fat on my steak. And I'm like, I'm Texan, right? I mean, they all cut their fat off. Like it was just, it was funny, you know?

But that was, that was when I realized that apparently I have an accent, at least to people from Boston, you know? And that it's funny. It's so funny. I mean, it was just like really rich. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? I'm funny. Like my accent's funny. Damn. It's just one of those fun dinner parties, you know, like with colleagues where you're bonding. Oh, everything was funny. Love that. Love it. Do you ever wish that you had an HR legal bestie in your pocket? 650 is just that. Your trusted, always available ally for your employment law questions, minus the hefty

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Visit six fifty comm slash besties. That's si X FIFTY comm slash besties and discover how to stay ahead with 650s seamless solutions Next question. I like this. Someone's like, what's been your favorite episode so far and why? I think I have a couple. I really like our season one HR for HR. That one's a good one. I liked our HR department one this season. I loved our Dave Ramsey ones. Man, you're going way back. I know.

Those seemed like so long ago. I know. I mean, it was though, really, if you think about it. That's season one. That was, if you haven't listened, go and listen to those. If you're like, Dave Ramsey, I like Dave Ramsey. This is not about Dave Ramsey's financial advice, but this was when he put out the 12 rules, components of a good hire.

We would not agree about his... I will not be giving financial advice, aside from don't order a Diet Coke with a third-party vendor, but we do not agree with Dave Ramsey's hiring advice. That was a two-part episode. Oh, gosh. I'm actually cheating. I'm looking at the list here. Damn. I'm actually cheating. I'm looking at the list here. Damn, we've had some good episodes.

I like the one we did earlier this season on, hey, congrats, you're a new leader. Oh no, you're a new leader. I thought that was really a good one there. I enjoyed that one. Season one, I loved how we kicked it off. People always reference that toe sucking. It's handy as a bellwether because when I'm talking to people, now a lot of people are like, oh, I'm a fan of the podcast, of your manager training. I watched you and I forgot you did it until mentioned on the podcast. Thanks. But people that don't know the podcast, I'll tell them, especially if I'm having like a professional call I'm like well I gotta say the first two words of the podcast are toe-sucking and

so and most people are like my people or whatever our people and they laugh and they're like okay no that's totally cool but you're always like how's this gonna go across yeah we've done some good ones. What do you think? Ashley, what do you? I agree with HR for HR. I hadn't realized that was also the episode where I talked about how I sign off my emails, blue skies, patterned after my field hockey coach. It's also the episode where Lee talks about go to God, go to God and go to the streets.

And so- Because you are fucked with a capital F. Yeah. So we get a lot of the emails we get now are signed blue skies, or I'll get those in emails. And it literally, like, it makes, it absolutely makes my day. Because for years, the only person I'd hear that from is my husband, who thought it was ridiculous. But you know, people get it. So I like the blue sky sign off.

I do too. That's funny. My turn for a question. Let me draw one out of the hat here. Let's see. I said we got a long list here. Oh my gosh. I know it was nice.

Oh gosh. If you could have any celebrity as a guest on the podcast, who would it be and why? That's a good one. That is a good one. I mean, I think we've mentioned her a couple of times, but I think all three of us would be in agreements that it's Monica Lewinsky, at least one of them, right? That would be fun. I think her perspective, just like the few speeches I've heard her give, I just love, just like the few speeches I've heard her give. I just love, I don't know, I just think she would be a very good guest on our podcast

as opposed to like any other one. I think she could bullshit with us really well. Also Megan Thee Stallion, but you know. Of course, that's ultimate, ultimate guest. I'd say Meryl Streep to ask her when she played Miranda Priestly and how like she got into character as like that boss. Similarly a bit with Michael Scott from from the office and also maybe some of the people because a number of the actors on the office didn't do as much acting beforehand. They

worked in other roles and so I think even some like kind of worked in corporate environments and so I'd love a peek behind that of what they brought into that show. That's one of those I can watch any time. I'd love to hear those perspectives. What about you, Lee? Yeah. Michael Scott in character. Yeah. I guess Steve Carell, right? It was his actual name. I'm like Meryl Streep as Miranda Priestly. Just Michael Scott. Michael Scott as Michael Scott or Steve Carell. There we are.

Oh my God, how fun would that be? You know who I would love? And of course I got recency effect with this one, but Johnny C. Taylor. Wow. The president and CEO or chairman, whatever his official title is, of SHRM, the Society of HR Management. Dickhead of SHRM. Well, he might become the Secretary of Labor.

Again, we'll see when this comes out, is when we're filming this, he's been shortlisted, which I think Sherm did like a letter congratulating him on being shortlisted, which I'm like, does that mean he's going to get it? Yeah. And I'm like, does that? Yeah. Like, what does that even mean? That's interesting.

I know what that means. I just mean like, why are you congratulating him on that? What's the first question you'd ask him? Why are you congratulating him on that? What's the first question you'd ask him? Why are you this way? I mean, literally, like, who hurt you? That would be my first question. Who hurt you? Oh, my god, you know?

Don't you see what you're doing to the profession? Oh, man. I would love, and we had a happy hour episode where we talked about the sherm, which is the end society for, it's not of, it's actually for human resource management. It's not human resources. I know this because I've looked them up on PACER so many times, which is the federal court docket, and I always get charged 10 cents when I don't do it correctly.

So I've had to learn. Yeah, yeah, it adds up. But so I would like to walk him through the lawsuit against Shurm and to hear outside of the presence of lawyers, just real talk, where he thinks that Shurm went wrong. Because he also, like in this racial discrimination lawsuit that's been brought by former ploy of Shurm, in part that employee had complained to him. Many steps along the way, what Shurm is alleged to have done is against their best practices. And so I'd love, I really would love this.

I mean, SHRM is an example because they talk about how they're the leader, they put themselves out there as, but I think hearing leaders basically take, whether it's accountability or explain why things happen, but I'd love to have that opportunity, which we won't have, but maybe you've manifesting this HR manifesto. I know, but we can dream that and then Dave Ramsey. I'm surprised y'all didn't say that one. Just people we can roast and toast and have some real talk.

I think that'd be fun. Some of his advice, for example, of like go on a spousal dinner, which he has on his, like one of his rules of hiring. I mean, I'd love to hear, okay, so what happens if someone isn't partnered? What if someone has a same sex partner, spouse? What if their spouse is like, hail to the no, I don't want to go? Does that weigh in on things? Because in the description, they say that that dinner's purpose is to tell if they're married to crazy,

which again assumes a lot of things in that sense. And so I'd love to pressure test that in an actual real conversation. Next question. Jamie, you got it. You got another one from the list here. I like this one. What's the biggest misconception people have about HR? We just saw it recently this week, Lee, you sent us something about HR is not your friend.

And y'all know I hate this. I did a whole series on TikTok about this. First of all, I hate that the words, those words together, shrunk together, because who is your friend other than your work bestie at work? But I hate that social media has created even a bigger divide with HR and employees when HR are employees. So that's all super frustrating for me is I would love to be able to kill that. And I think, I honestly think that we've done a great job on the podcast because we have

non-HR professionals that listen to us and they say, wow, this has been a great peep behind the curtain about what HR actually does and what they're involved in and their work behind the scenes because you don't see our work behind the scenes, right? We don't get the credit or it's a thankless job and that's, and that's okay with us as HR professionals. So I think for me is that people, they assume they know what HR professionals do. They don't. And maybe that shame on us has a function for not sharing and setting expectations and walking through with our clients what it is we do day in and day out.

But I think people just think we fire people and that may be one, 2% of the job, like across a year really. I mean, it's infrequent in most roles. So I just think that people, they just don't understand everything we do behind the scenes and maybe we don't tout it enough, we don't share it enough, we don't understand everything we do behind the scenes. And maybe we don't tout it enough. We don't share it enough. We don't inform enough about all the things we do, you know. So that's one is people don't even get really, you know, what HR does and really understand its impact. I have three quick ones. One is that we're very good friends looking out for the CEO's interest

at all times. I think those relationships don't tend to be existent as much as people think. I think HR definitely thinks about the broader population at work more so than the top of the executive chain, candidly. Two is that HR is very highly paid, does not tend to be the reality. Oh, yeah. And so just doesn't. But then I think is like this concept that HR is just managing risk and protecting people. And then other people are like, but that's what legal is for.

And I've said, I've been in legal and HR, and you do not serve the interest of anyone in the organization, employees, leadership, organizational reputation by being an asshole. And by like, like trying to like, fuck with the employees money and lives and things like that. HR isn't a tough position where at times you're advocating doing a lot behind the scenes, everything Jamie and Lee both said. But this aspect of like the HR is this like nefarious, cruel intentions, great movie. But as I mean, and like when I saw when I do videos like about like showing like, you know, speaking up on behalf of place, be like, HR never does that.

And there's HR that does never do that. But it is not, no role is a monolith or does the same thing always. And so there's a lot of people in HR who are trying to advocate. But when you get those comments, I mean, we get it. That's the one thing that makes me constantly question whether it's worth it to do social media or things like that when you're just getting punched in the face with that comment of like, nobody does what you do, stop talking, blah, blah, blah. But no matter what your role is, you're not going to do a good job by being a jerk.

And that absolutely includes HR. And so I think that's a misconception. Ooh, that's a good one. I like this. Okay, let's just, is how do you unwind after HR? That guy, this person's like, I'm always looking for ways to unwind productively. So maybe people say- That's funny because I literally just highlighted that one. Ah, okay.

Because I was like, oh, I love this one. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So how do you unwind after a day of HRing? It depends. So like, you know, some days where they're truly emotionally and mentally and physical exhausting, maybe there was a layoff.

Maybe there was a very hard conversation that you had to have. Maybe, I don't know what it was, but those days I truly need to be left alone, usually in my room, dark. I'm a mother. These things don't really get to happen, but usually I really need to be reclusive for the night. If it's just a bad day, I want to sit on the couch and watch a comfort show with a white

claw. It doesn't need to be like six white claws. It can just be like one or two white claws to take the edge off. But yeah, I mean, it also helps sometimes just talking to your besties like you guys. I know not that long ago, I came to you after you guys had a long day and you guys helped me go, I know today's rough, but tomorrow will be better. And sometimes it helps just to have friends that are in the same profession as you so they can understand those hard days.

Because obviously my real life bestie does not understand. So it's nice to have someone who has been through those things and can kind of talk you off the ledge sometimes. Yeah, that support network is so critical. Oh my gosh. I think for me, I have to disconnect. I have to shut my brain off as much as I can. And that's why you'll typically find me scrolling through a show or documentary late night before bed, off the phone, off work, whatever, just getting lost in something else to distract me. I need that because I'm a highly sensitive person and I feed off everyone else's energy.

So it makes HRing tough, long exhausting days. So I have to go distract myself. And that's kind of my coping mechanism there, is to get lost in someone else's story. That's why I really like documentaries. So it just kind of shifts my attention to something else I can focus on. But that's my coping mechanism. I definitely cry.

Oh, well, yeah, ops. I cry and I'll keep it bottled up and then I'll have a good cry. I mean, I have a couch in my office. I will sit with the blanket and Rosie, my dog, who's always with me, but she will and she'll lick the tears. That is helpful. Aww. I mean, I've tried to shift to not drink during the week, which sometimes candidly,

it can be a struggle. Not like a super problematic struggle, but I've started to get into non-alcoholic drinks. Not like CBD, just the flavors of them, and I found some that I really like. Not like CBD, just the flavors of them, and I found some that I really like. And so that I've gotten into lifting heavy weights. Ooh! Yeah, I like doing that. That does help me get into things. Also I see Facebook posts of people 20, 30 years older than me talking about it, and they're like, this is the secret.

And I'm like, ooh, I believe you targeted at here. I come but but it helps me. I really, as I get older in particular, and I have issues with sleep, and you know, you read about stress and the manifestations of stress. I try to find productive ways. That being said, I also love like, I love an old fashioned love to like sit and read a book, but I do like even as an as an extrovert, I say, I just need some alone time crying on the couch for a little bit. And it's just that I tend to get that out. And then I like try to shift to my perspective

to shift an activity to take my mind off things. That's good. People bottle that shit up that is not healthy. So cathartic release. I love it. All right, next question. Are we ready for it? So cathartic release. I love it. Oh, all right. Next question. Are we ready for it? Yeah, I like this. I like this one. Sounds like, okay, if you're making they're like, not me. Sounds like not me working on our handbook. But if you, but if you had a perfect workplace, what's a rule or policy that you'd want to implement? And I like that quite a bit.

I'll say mine is I like in particular in the US, like globally, so some of like time off policies. Globally, you tend to have a bit more balance of like whatever the categories and things are that people need. In the US, you don't have that much required time off. So often you'll have things like a week, you know, can't use vacation for 90 days, six months and a lot of these policies that just don't reflect reality. And so what I like to see is a sizable, I don't like unlimited PTO because people tend to take less when

they have unlimited PTO, the psychological things, but to have a reasonable paid time off collective bank, and that when people take it, that if it's a planned vacation, you know, you have reasonable notice and things like that, so people can plan, but unexpected things will come up. But that you don't have those managers that are like, it's sick leave. Like, do we, like, then send me a doctor's note. Send me a proof. Like I want to hear your voice to make sure you're sick. Because when you have things like dedicated sick leave, that's too often what can happen. And so I like to create trust in a reflection of human reality that people need time off. They perform better when they do and having that.

And so people can share the reason they're taking off if they want. They don't have to if they're not comfortable sharing. But so for me, a lot of things I like are around more reasonable time off things. I think that's fair. While you're talking, I was trying not to think of my answer. But I was thinking if there was one policy I could implement is typically policies are created because something happened, right? They're usually like, oh shit, or maybe, you know, when I created our handbook at my current job, it was shit that I knew needed to be in there. One, like the legal stuff, but two, it's stuff that I'm like, well, I've had this happen

in my 20 years, you know, blah, blah, blah. So like, there's so many things that I like, wouldn't even want to like address code, you know, but unfortunately, I know that people show up wearing some crazy shit. And then you have to implement a dress code. So it's like, I don't know if I could even answer that. But I love the time away thing. I think, especially here in the US, it's almost like we are penalized for taking time off because the emails don't stop. For instance, I'm taking the day off this Friday,

and I know that my mailbox is going to be on fire. Now, I'm just taking one day off. So the worry and the anxiety of just taking a day off, I think that would be important to have a real strategy that this is your time off. Yeah. To that point, something that I would implement, there's a lot of things, okay, for the record, that I would change and do if I could. But one thing that I really, really like is, to that point, Jamie, you and I are kind of on

the same page here, is that I would love mandatory shutdown weeks, mandatory days off, where you don't have that. Like everyone is off. The benefits of that, I mean, research, research, research. I mean, people need that time and that break because to your point, Jamie, it just keeps going, especially in the US here. And it doesn't stop. And that is just a wonderful reset for an entire organization. There's companies out there that do that. And the effects, the feedback, the impact, I mean, are profound.

And so that's one thing I would do, is that, you know, once a quarter, there's, you know, a mandatory couple days off, whatever it looks like for the organization. There's a holiday shutdown, there's a spring shutdown, there's whatever it is. With pay for hourly, for hourly too, right? Like just... Yes. And it's hard when there for hourly, for hourly too. It's hard when there's low margins, you get it, or there's certain emergency, there are certain emergency, there are certain true emergency healthcare things like that, and that's so hard and it's so important.

But I agree, there's a lot. If I go to a coffee shop or something and they have the sign that's like, we're shutting down overall as an organization for the day to look to do that. You will see the people that will probably go in like the local Facebook group that are like up in arms. But I agree the counter to that is choosing as an organization to truly invest in your people and having everybody off. It's so, oh my God, it's like such a, it really, it makes you feel lucky, but you should not

be lucky to have an environment you deserve, but to come back and you don't have a slew of emails or a list of reports. Like just, just, I completely agree. I've worked to implement that at one organization in particular. And it was, of course, incredibly well received. People are sending pictures of things they're doing with their, their families. Someone's like, I'm sitting on the couch watching Bravo and I don't realize how much I need that. And you're like, amazing.

Yeah. Just to like disassociate, you know? Like a day, and not Sunday. Exactly. Probably have time for a couple more. What do you think? I don't know. Yeah. Let me see. Oh, I like this one. What's an HR trend or work trend that excites you right now? What's hot out there? Well, what's hot is AI.

Excites me, of course. Oh, yeah. That is hot. Yeah, I'm like, but. Helping me with my emails. How do you feel about that? Does that excite you, Jamie? Or are you like, it's just a trend period?

No, no, no. I mean, I use it for sure. And I think that it can be implemented in a lot of ways in HR. So that excites me a little bit. Like, for instance, I'm thinking something, Ashley, you've mentioned ages ago, but like in performance reviews, because, you know, in HR, you get the damnedest time trying to get people to fill those out, not just themselves, but like even the managers' reviews, right? So I think just to help with some of the lift on that, I don't know, I love the idea of it and I use it constantly. Though I did find out at work that it flags IT every time I use it. Right, right. And I'm like, well, tell on me. I don't care.

Flag, flag, flag, flag, flag. Yeah, I'm like, flag away. You know, there's certain guardrails about using company name, people's names, but I agree. Like just using it for efficiency or rephrase, like rephrase. It's not doing my work. It's like I've said before, like remix it for me. It dresses it up.

It's a little bit more professional. Yeah, because all the time I'll see people's comments like, oh, why would a manager need advice on something? Because people are, people don't know how to say it. Like you can think to say, like, how do I say this? And so like, asking for help is a good thing. We should be encouraging, encouraging more of that. I like that aspect of AI quite a bit, even as a personal coach. I mean, for me, I'd say organizations that are looking to really thread the needle between flexibility and human connection, because the trend I'm not excited about is all the research about loneliness that with AI and social media and everything, people are having less genuine

human interaction like in person. But that reality is sometimes organizations over-rotate. And so they're like, come in five days a week, commute, commute your ass off and come to our very sad, beautiful, but like sad and lonely office space. But the organizations that are having the flexibility, but then investing and like, okay, we'll get teams together. So you may have once a quarter, even once a year, like getting together with people and building those connections, but then, you know, leaving people to their devices and giving flexibility.

That name quite hybrid approach, but like, you know, kind of remote first, but with human connection. I really, I really like that quite a bit. Yeah, no, I mean, I've been reading a lot of the research on on burnout, right? And you know, it's been over 100 years, I believe, since we got the nine to five, which is fantastic because it used to be we're working all the freaking time. But I see more changes coming on what a work week looks like. We may see it last here in the US, but we're already seeing shifts and changes

and what a typical work week should look like, right? I like the move to four days. Yes, please. I like the concept of people doing their work at their time and their own schedule where they wanna do it, just accomplish the work. You need strong leadership and development for that. But I like some of those

shifts and especially with the advent of AI and incorporating that more, work is really going to change. What this looks like is really, really going to shift and change. So that excites me to see the effects of technology on that. And then, you know, companies paying attention to research on wellness and burnout and all of this and shifting and adjusting. So more hours, you don't get more productivity, just FYI. There's a sweet spot there, there's a bell curve to it, you know, so it is fascinating,

but I wish I was born like a hundred years from now, you know, so I could see some of that. I just want a flying car. There you go. We were supposed to have those. I know. I thought from Back to the Future Part 2, I was going to have my... I thought we would have it by now.

Flying skateboard, but here I am rollerblading down the street. Okay. Any other questions you all want to pull out here? I actually think this might be a good one to end on if y'all want, but because I get this a lot. What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who's considering a career in HR? And I mean, I really do get this a lot. I get this on LinkedIn, I get this on TikTok, I get this on Instagram. And it's usually people that have just started like their schooling in HR.

And I'm making jokes about don't do it. And so they're like, wait a minute, should I? And the truth is, yeah, don't, no. No, no. Here's what I would say. And I would say is HR is hard. So is any job. So I'm not discounting any other jobs.

I just know HR. It is a thankless job. A lot of times you are battling with executives for things that they could give two shits about. So my piece of advice would be, if you are all in for it, and don't say you're a people person. If you're all in for the greater good, is what I would say, then do it. But understand that it will be a fight and we need people who are willing to be an advocate, an employee advocate, and to go up for bat.

And so my advice would just be like, you need to have a backbone. That's not the greatest, but... Yeah. I mean, I'd say you really have to give a shit about people. It's kind of along the same vein. I mean, really, HR is internal customer service. And so caring about people, although it can make for tougher and harder days, it makes for a more rewarding career in HR. It really does.

And you can have a tremendous effect on others, their well-beings, their livelihoods, professionally, personally. So it's something to not take lightly. You got to really consider that some days they are life and death. I mean, literally, right? We've all had tough moments, you know? And so it takes a lot of strength. And like Jamie says, it takes a lot of courage and bravery

and backbone and you name it. But it's incredibly fulfilling because of that. And so, I highly recommend it. I love it. I love serving people just flat out. So, if you love that, that's a wonderful way to do that in a business setting. Just a piece of advice there is that, God, you really have to give a shit about others. I think I'd say going in is not to look for an HR generalist role, meaning one where you're

like, or HR business partner role, where you're like supporting and dealing with all the people things. I actually think as you're starting out, especially with some of this future of work, is to look into like HRIS, which is like the HR information systems, HR coordinator roles, benefits, like as you know, I know Jamie, you start out in benefits. Knowing some of those technical roles, especially like IT technical aspects of that, I think are going to be incredibly important as you move forward and having an appreciation and understanding of that. And also, to what both Jamie and Lee say, the people aspect, it's so important to have champions there.

One of the things we see constantly is people that do get burned out on that. So hopefully you can go in or you want to have that role. But even if you are a people person in HR, if you want to become a CHRO one day, you're coming out and you're shooting for the moon or stars or whatever, the people aspect of it is kind of the middle, often the middle of your career, like understanding fundamentals. Then you work with the people. And then if you become a CHRO, well, there's a lot of people, people and emotional things that you'll have to do with that.

But understanding the strategic piece, so now I think understanding the technology, but also from the strategic piece, one of the things that's helpful, I think, is setting up relationships and meeting with different functions, finance, strategy, IT, operations, and meeting with colleagues there, maybe starting with colleagues at your level, and to the extent you can, getting meetings with senior leaders and asking, how do you think about HR supporting your function? What do you wish HR would do? And maybe explaining a bit what your workload is like.

I'm sure you love this support from HR, but just like your team is lean and ours is. But building those cross-functional, that's my recommendation, is understand the technical aspects of HR and then building relationships. Because that will help you whether you advance in HR becoming a CHRO or if one day you're like, oh, this isn't for me, I want to do something else. You at least have a real appreciation for the business and the best HR professionals. They work, you can't do everybody's job. But having that understanding can absolutely help you to advocate for and be more credible in your role as you progress.

Just to follow up on that, just general work advice. Because again, we have a ton of listeners that aren't HR, right? They're just professionals. As you're beginning your career, advice that was given to me by a mentor was to pick the most challenging roles. And that is what I did. And it paid off a lot. So I always chase the jobs and pick the jobs that scared the shit out of me.

And yeah, imposter syndrome, this and that. But I did realize that, hey, no one knows what the hell they're doing. So it's okay that I don't. Like, I'm going to go in and I'm going to learn it, but I'm realize that, hey, no one knows what the hell they're doing. So it's okay that I don't. Like I'm going to go in and I'm going to learn it, but I'm going to get a lot out of this role. But I've had some hard-ass jobs, like really super challenging, and those just stress you and stretch you like crazy, you know? And so to me, like I said, that paid off.

But I guess my advice just generally is, you generally is don't shy away from that shit. If it scares you, that's probably a good thing. If you're like, oh, I don't know if I can do this. Well, if you're given the opportunity, why not give it a shot? You know what I mean? So don't pass your chance to develop and learn and grow as much as you can. So that worked for me. All right. So shall we deep dive into questions and comments?

Perhaps comments, quick comments to finish the last episode of the season out. What do y'all ladies have? Any final thoughts? I have a question. Nobody, I don't think anybody asked this, but what's something that surprised y'all, or that you learned about the others on the podcast this year? That Lee wanted to be an opera singer. I just want to say thank you so much ladies for an amazing year, amazing season four and

cheers to season five and picking up in January. Yes, that is good. I know no more comments and questions than that. But if you do in the meantime, want to go, we don't ask that often, but giving us a rating, review if you like it, sharing it, that helps us probably more than you know in the world of Podcast Land. And so that we would greatly, greatly appreciate. Absolutely.

We appreciate you besties, and we hope to see you back here next year. Love you.