HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Romantic Relationships at Work

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Today’s agenda:  When Jamie met Josh Cringe corporate speak: fish off the office dock Hot topic: Office relationships, situationships and everything in between Mandates and policies won't stop office romances What have we seen? Formatting the handbook language and reporting structures Abuse of power and maintaining professionalism Relationships vs. drama, affairs and tricky power dynamics Being mindful of the F-Word (favoritism) Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  Subscribe to the HR Besties Newsletter - https://hr-besties.beehiiv.com/subscribe We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So back in 2011, I was working as a human resources generalist at Marriott. And I actually really enjoyed my job. It was hard. The hours were long, but I really did enjoy my job until one day this kind of cute boy. I mean, okay, he was cute. He was cute. This cute boy joined us, I mean, okay, he was cute. He was cute. This cute boy joined us and I did his orientation. Didn't think anything of it because I'm HR, right? No big deal. Well,

this boy proceeded to ask me out for three months straight. And I mean, like... I thought you meant like during orientation, like during... No, no, no. I know, me too. I was like, damn. How soon after you like met him, did he ask you out? Like during... No, no, no. Oh, I know. Me too. I was like, damn. How soon after you met him, did he ask you out? It was probably a good couple weeks because he would come into my office and just randomly try to talk to me.

And I'm like, God, I hate that he's so cute because I want to tell him to fuck off. But we found out that we randomly went to the same high school, but I would have never known him. I was five years older than him. So we never were in high school together. And we just had like a lot of weird random stuff in common. So anyway, this boy just kept asking me out for three months straight. And I was like, hell no, there's no way in fucking hell because I'm in HR.

And he was a cook. And I wasn't going to do that because this was my career and this no way. And so one day my boss, shout out Anjane, was like, why don't you just go have a drink with him? What is it going to hurt? I was like, really? And she's like, yes, really just go have one drink and then maybe he'll leave you the fuck

alone. And so I'm like, well, my boss said it, guys. My boss is giving me the stamp of approval and it's just one drink. So finally, after three months of him, probably now he's probably worked there about five months. So three of those months were nonstop asking me out. We finally went and we met for a drink and we found out we had actually a whole lot in common and I think I actually liked him. And so fast forward, now

we've been married 12 years. Yeah, so I met my husband at work and it was completely on accident and I wasn't planning on it and I got lucky because shortly after that, I was promoted to a different Marriott. And so we only were together probably two months, secretly, of course, because I didn't want anyone to know, except my boss did now, since she promoted it. But yeah, pretty wild. Gosh, that is wild. But I think that's good though that you got that promo and you... I mean, you know, because that could...

Yes, yes. I got lucky there because otherwise one of us would have had to leave. Well, I was going to say, he must have really been into you to be repeatedly asking HR out during your 90-day probation period. You said three months. I mean, you must have really got his attention there, girl. Okay. I must have, and I've kept it. That's like a Hallmark plot right there. Right. Now, do you think Olive is asking, did it reach the level of a hostile work environment? Did it reach a sexual harassment sort of level? Probably, this is going to sound really terrible, probably if he wasn't cute. That's the life of HR, isn't it?

Do as I say. I know, that's what they say. Not as we do on a case by case basis. Okay, all right. Well, you know. They say it's not sexual harassment if they're hot. Right? Isn't that in the law, Ashley?

No. That was just a joke, everyone. So don't feel the need. I had a manager tell me, yeah, I don't believe in that. I had a manager say that before and I'm like, yeah, what? No, but they were talking about themselves thinking they were the hot one. Like, wow, okay. Bye. Let me tell you, if you say that, but especially if you write that down in an email and refer to yourself as the hot one, that's where you can always count on having at least three

extra zeros in that jury verdict at the end of the day when that comes to light as part of discovery. But so there you go. There's a price for everything. I tell my kids there are benefits to becoming an adult. No one tells you when to go to bed. You could choose to have ice cream for dinner. But we also know that adulting is a verb for a reason.

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Broncos keep going up and up. Now get purchase financing from 0% APR for up to 60 months on eligible 2024 Bronco family models. Visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. That hot goss, Jamie, is the perfect segue to today's meeting, which is all about romantic relationships in the office. Thank you so much for that water cooler talk, Jamie. Up next is cringe corporate speak, and I'm on the hook for that. And then hot topic, again, all things,

office, work, workplace, relationships, love, you name it. All of those things, okay? And this is one of those topics that is, I guess, in demand. I don't know. I get lots of questions on this. The besties, we've all received questions on this, right? Like, what do you think about relationships at work? All of that, right?

So we'll cover that. And then, of course, at the end, we will save time for questions and comments. Sound good? Are we aligned? Aligned on the agenda? Always. Always.

Well, Cringe Corporate Speak brought to you all by me today. And we'll stay on theme because it's a fun one. The Cringe Corporate Speak for this meeting is Fishing Off the Company Doc. Have you ladies heard that one? I had not. I don't. Fishing off the company's doc. I mean, I like to fish, but no. So my mind is going to the literal sense. Oh oh, who has a dock? This isn't the workplace benefits episode. No, I don't think I've, tell us, Lee.

Yes. Well, you know, this phrase came up in my first job where I had a manager dating somebody else and they were like, well, another employee. And they were like, well, I know it's bad to fish off the company dock, but... And I was like, fish off the company dock. And then all the advice is always, you should never fish off the company dock, which means do not try and date somebody at work. Yeah.

Don't shit where you eat. Don't eat where you eat shit. Don't eat where you eat shit. Oh, wait. Both work, right? Whatever. Don't shit where you eat. Don't eat where you shit. Don't eat where you shit. Oh, wait. Both work, right? Whatever. Whatever works.

So, fishing off the company dock is all about trying to find a mate at work or dating at the office. Because sometimes those fish come back with three eyes. Not in Jamie's situation. But you know what I'm talking about. Those could be some toxic fish. And so, that always seems to be the the council, right? And mentorship is, hey, it could get messy, you know, if you data

work, do not fish off the company dog. That is that makes me that literally makes me want to go fishing right now. But maybe it's a regional thing. I don't know, fishing off the company dog. Of course, since I'm not the researcher of the three, I did not look it up. Ashley's like, hold please. That's an Ashley thing. Again, well, I'm doing as I do in a meeting and like, you know, yeah, that's people have, I don't see like the origin of it.

But I do see people saying, oh, god, I saw another one, which is a little more not graphic, but I saw someone's like, oh, yeah, it's the same as dipping your pen in the company ink. I've heard that now. I don't think I've heard that one again. I mean, that's a real old, that's like the quill. But it's all it's it all gets to the it all gets to the very same place. That's which is probably a good thing for us to cover today. Yes. Everything dating in the workplace, right?

Or relationships in the workplace. Where do you even begin on this? So I, truthfully, I never made a habit of it prior to Josh. Like I never habit. I have seven habits. Highly effective people fishing off the company dock. I have not done that. So I had never dated anyone at work prior to him.

And I think even at like Sears, when I worked at Sears in college, I don't know, it was never a thing. I think it was even more a thing where I was like, I can't do it because I'm HR. Like that's so inappropriate. So like in my head, it was never an option. So I don't, I think that's why I never did. Well, except I did.

Until you did. You never did until you did. One thing I think is for HR any workplace is having an absolute prohibition on it. As a lawyer in HR, I can understand fully why you would want to do that. The realistic sense is like anything, if you put a ban on something, people are still going to do it. They're just going to try to hide it. And then when it ends, it's going to be even more explosive.

So like recognizing reality is important. I too, I met my husband at work. We were 22 and we were friends at work. We were friends at work and friends from time, well, relatively long time when you're 22, we were friends from when we were like 22 and a half we were 22. And we were friends at work. Yeah, we were friends at work. And friends from time, well, relatively long time when you're 22, we were friends from when we were like 22 and a half to almost 23. So very long few months. But we, Dan and I met and so it worked out for us. Also, he left the company very shortly after we started dating. So I do I do think to your point, Jamie, whether it's separation by location or things, but the reality is, I mean, especially, I mean, from offices to especially like, god, restaurants,

like, can you imagine a band, like restaurants, it's like a reality show. It's like incestuous. Yeah. Or like, I remember I worked at Winn-Dixie and the groceries and the bagger who was like younger, he asked out my girlfriend to take her to prom. But I remember it was super awkward because then I think she ordered a lobster. They went to dinner before prom and she ordered a lobster. I mean, and that was a lot of shifts to pay for that lobster.

And I remember he was talking about this. And he was this sweet young kid. And he was like, I have to work all these shifts to like pay for it. But like she didn't like me. It was so awkward. And so I think recognizing people will. And so if you don't have, and not just like policies, like strict policies, but even just like the basics of like,

what do you do? Do you have people come and talk to acknowledge it's happening? What are you going to do when people break up? Because that's where from the legal aspect, some of the messiest complaints in the law or news articles are that of like breakups. Hell hath no fury like a regional manager whose partner has broken up with him.

That's the number one question is, do you have a policy or not? Like everywhere I've worked, people have just been screaming about having a policy. Like, can we please have a policy on this and that? I mean, that wasn't an avenue I wanted to go down personally, you know? So I don't think I've ever had an employer put something in writing like that. Just if the, hey, if you are related, you can't report to each other or whatever, or, you know, things like that, but not a, you can't have a relationship

with someone at work sort of policy. What's that called? Fratinization or so? I don't know. Romantic Relationships Policy, RRP. At Marriott, we did have one actually. And it wasn't HR couldn't date anyone. So I wasn't breaking a rule there, but it was about specifically supervisors. If they're supervising that, you know, or we had a lot of married couples that they could not, you know, the husband or the wife could not be the supervisor of, but also we had a fraternization of policy about the guest. Yeah. So, I knew-

Sometimes they don't follow that, I'm just saying. Yeah, no, they did not. And I can tell you that because I had to fire quite a few people. Quite a few front desk agents. Quite a few front desk agents, I tell you, they get a little too- Friendly. Friendly. And that's man and female. This is not, this was both. A few front desk agents, I tell you, they get a little too friendly. And that's man and female. This is not, this was both.

So but yes, at Marriott we did. I cannot say, though, I'll be honest, in recent companies, no, there hasn't been like a full policy. It's been more exactly what you said, Lee, about family and can't supervise. I'd worked with some organizations, because what I've done for some people is work on handbook language and very human talk, handbook language.

I do think it's important to have a policy about reporting structures and that you can't. Because if that does happen, it is important at times to be able to point. I mean, that is one of the very few things it's important to point to, be like, no. But also, the disclosure of relationships. But I think putting it in real terms.

And you can totally use someone that can help with this or literally go into ChatgyPT to be like, how can I have language that says we expect people to be professional? And so thinking about altogether, if you choose to date someone at work, that it's within the policies, no reporting structure, and just knowing things that can happen,

things like if the relationship doesn't work out, and being mindful of making sure that that doesn't cross professional boundaries in that instance. And so bringing our attention to it so we can make sure the boundaries are upheld, things like that, the language, but so that you can absolutely have things to point to if things don't go well.

And just, but again, just having that conversation, I think, with team members, especially if you're in training managers of how do you manage that on your team if people have those and someone's sitting on their lap in the workplace. Just having the conversation. You'd be like, right, to be like, team, all love is fine. Not love, no laps necessarily in the workplace.

And that's the stuff that it's important. Like, they're managers, they're day-to-day people, know how and what to deal with that on a professional level. Yeah. I mean, I think I would ask y'all, have you seen it where it was almost an abuse of power? Like I think Monica Lewinsky, that's what pops into my head every time, but have you seen where it's been that CEO or that executive team member who is dating maybe secretly or not their executive assistant or you know what I mean? And I remember Lee, you told

us a story about that beloved square. Yeah. With the engineering manager who was married to the finance leader, engineering managers having an affair with an engineering associate who is also married to another engineer in the same department. I mean, all working under one roof, like what the heck. But what I'll say is that's such an exception. Like that was like something that obviously really stands out

like, you know, in my career. I would say it's, is it rare we think, like that something gets that messy? Or to your question, have we seen, I mean, you right? You know what I mean? God, I would hope. Yeah, I mean, I think I'd hope. And that's where it gets tricky.

I mean, on one hand, the reality is we do, we spend a lot of our time, energy, life at work. And so you are going to meet people. And so I think, again, if you have this policy that's like, you can't, you can't, then okay, what if you have two good people and they're like, but we want to date and it doesn't, it literally doesn't have any conflicts. They're like, we get it. Like we've, we've thought about all this stuff. So one person has to leave and who's that? Which one? Whatever. So sometimes I've had, I mean, this company, the company Dan and I met at, they talk about it all the time that it was so many couples that stemmed from it. In part, we're all kind of certain ages out of college. We're spending a lot of time at work. But I think there are ways to like think about

and talking about that with your team to be like, how can we celebrate these things and how can we do that and show? And I think, and so part of it, I mean, I'd love to see this, I've never seen this and I'm talking out loud in the middle of meeting, but like, is to have a session of a couple that like met, they had their relationship,

they've had like a long standing relationship, but to be like, okay, do a webinar, like dating at work, and how did you balance that? How did you actually do that and uphold it? I think just presenting that from a real... I think a lot of people would appreciate hearing from something that inevitably about a week after that they're going to end up getting divorced. But hopefully it goes well. But I think just flipping that to think about how can you promote it with boundaries, because I think where you have it is what also happens at work, which is those relationships all over the place and when you have the power dynamics at play. I do think when it's a relationship of not equals, meaning org chart and over reporting structure, I actually think generally there can be some great things that come out of it the the worst

part is I think that does more often than not tend to be messily is when it's like an extramarital or the reporting lines and that and I do think it tends to end up messy more than it parts nicely. I love how you propose training people on how to date responsibly in the workplace. That's your next course. Workplace dating. I'll loop down in for that one. 101. Hey, small business leaders, have you ever thought there's got to be an easier way to

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I think if you're an organization and doing like a quarterly luncheon, you can do them about the same old, same old things, but if you have them about certain topics, like if you have the story of like someone that moved completely in a different trajectory, or you have someone who's been in like the same role their whole career, that is gonna retire

and thinks nobody cares about them and have them do a session talking about their career path, but have like quarterly webinars called Real Talk and have those to that extent and talk about real issues. Like I personally would rather show up for something like that than a lot of other topics you see that are like, I mean, okay, this could be an email. Mine would be called real talk.

I fucked the hot chef. Bon appétit. That's appropriate. Jamie, you're like an HR group chat come to life. I swear to God. I love you. There's a difference between appropriate. Jamie, you're like an HR group chat come to life. It's not a good. I love you. There's a difference between dating and establishing a relationship with someone and all of this.

And then the drama that has always occurred in the workplace from affairs, different types of relations. You know what I mean? I see those as different. Those are like events or conflicts of interest or exploitation of power events or whatever. Because, Jamie, when you ask, what have you seen? And I've got that square. I mean, there's a few others that come to mind. Like the wife just in the car in the parking lot all day, you know, because she believes the husband's

having an affair, like those sorts of things. Spouse is just showing up. That happens. And then I remember one where, oh man, a supervisor was having an affair with someone on his team and they were having relations like in the housekeeping closet. But that supervisor, the wife did not like that, right? And was... Understandably. Euphemism. Yeah. And she found out, and then someone on that supervisor's team found out because they sense

preferential treatment, that person is the one who informed the wife via letter, you know, also sent a letter to HR, also sent a letter to that guy's supervisor, right? I mean, that's when it starts getting incredibly messy is when you have those power dynamics, leaders are exploiting that and that is not healthy, you know, so where I see really the benefit for training Maybe this is the course actually is you know for leaders To you know to be mindful be careful and I mean, you know, like that's that's a that's a no-go That is no bueno right there, you know, but that's the times. I've really seen it blow up Right the word favoritism you picked on because that's the times I've really seen it blow up, right?

The word favor doesn't mean pegged on, because that's what can be the common denominator between obviously the problematic relationships that lead to the letter to HR and all those things. But even in those like consensual romantic, it's very similar to what we've talked about and that when people don't have all the information, they tend to assume the worst. And so when someone sees a relationship at work that maybe has ideally nothing to do with them, that they're not in a square or triangle or whatever,

but they see this, they are going to assume there's gonna be preferential treatment. And so that's why exactly I agree with talking about leaders and the favoritism and like, yes, these things are gonna happen, but it is so important as an organization and as leadership to make sure there is no preferential treatment and there's not even the appearance of preferential treatment or

things that are going to, you know, evidence that's going to support the hypothesis or the thought and fear that all of your employees have are like, what this is what it takes to like to get ahead. And so being super mindful of that. And I think that favoritism piece is the biggest aspect of it. That's huge, because I've had bosses before. I've had all sorts of different types of toxic bosses, OK?

Because I've had bosses before, one in particular, where I was their favorite to where everyone assumed, oh, they're having an affair. Oh, something's bad. Something bad is happening there, you know, because I was just treated differently. I was basically, his bitch is really what it felt like to me. But that put me in a tough spot

because I wasn't even trying to be like that, you know, with him and then, you know, and then you have kind of that target on your back from your peers and it's like, ugh. And then the rumor mill starts, the absence of information, whatever. People make assumptions. So it's funny how those really do go hand in hand there.

People make assumptions both ways sometimes. But that's really what it is, right? Is this perception of inequity that's happening in the workplace. And so leaders, beware, be mindful, be careful. I mean, that's a big one. But there's also the fun ones, right? Where two random people from random departments have nothing really to do with each other,

but all of a sudden you see them leaving or you see them coming in in the morning together from the same car. And then you and your work bestie are like, what's going on there? It's like Dwight and Angela from The Office, where you would never necessarily see them together and you're like, oh my God, they're perfect together. Wow. So if we can have Dwight and Angela put together a seminar on how to successfully date in The Office, I don't know, obviously I'd watch that. But those are the fun though. And when they, when the gossip were like,

ooh, you know, Doug from accounting and Brenda from sales. What? I thought they were eating lunch together. The dynamics that are also important for leaders to talk about to pour a little water on this are things like when you have, for example, like a layoff. And then, okay, so what do you do? And this is why asking questions, and I'll put this, I'm going to make a note, but this in the, you have to put this in for bonuses and things like that. Are you like, do you know more information of them? Like, oh, we know they're trying for a baby, so we'll give the rate again, like those things,

but you're not doing- We're buying a house. We can't fire them. But you're not doing that for others, or you have a layoff and you're like, but we're going to lay off one person, but not the other, and then we're going to do things that one. And so that's why I say we'll put this in the discussion guide questions for HR teams or any team thinking about what are some of those aspects that are important to think about in advance? How do you handle them?

Because there's no right answer. There's a lot of awkward ones and sometimes it's picking it up and recognizing that's where it can lead to hard things. But it's, I mean, it certainly depends as well because there's some places that are like a small town. There's really like a couple of couple employers. And so, you don't want to ruin people's things, some places that are like a small town, there's really like a couple of couple employers.

And so, you know, you don't want to ruin people's things, but just just thinking about all of those all of those aspects. And what can you deal with it do with those? And how can we talk to people as as real humans with like also being supportive? Like we're not trying to we're not trying to make you lose your job. We're not trying to make you pick your partner only from the competitor across the street. But I remember once it was like somebody, I think it was back in my law firm days, and it was like a question generally about like from an organization, like can we have a policy about not dating from competitors? But the way they described it, oh my God, I remember being like, oh God, it's like my 20s or whatever

and then hearing this conversation, I think sitting in a partner's office, of course, observing and like dying inside. Cause they're like, you know, what if they're, you know, having pillow talk and the pillow talk involves, you know, trade secrets. And I was like, I think, I don't think Mad Men was around at this time, but I remember kind of being like, I mean, oh gosh. And like, again, having some of those considerations, but fishing off the company dock with the pillow talk. Okay. But people really do propose those sorts of things. You know, leaders propose those

sorts of things to HR all the time. That's why I would, you know, so many have asked, we need a policy that says you can't date anyone at work. And I'm like, I think that's a overreach. You know what I mean? I think that's a gross overreach. It just is because we spend, I think Ashley, you said that, a lot of our lives at work. You know what I mean?

So people still have to live. They still have to live their lives. And, oh man, but it's just about being professional, tactful and leaders. No, please, oh God. So, oh man, it's a fun one, it's a messy one, but all relationships, right? You have to be careful, so it's all about equity,

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Anything else on relationships at work, ladies? Are we for them? That's so funny. That's literally what I was going to say. Are we yay or naying? I'm yaying only because that's how I met my husband, but I don't necessarily... I don't know. I guess it just depends. I'm yaying because I don't think it's any of my business. I'm yaying. Have your jollies. As long as it's not a supervisor or manager. Yeah. Yeah.

Like something gross like that. Yeah. I've had to, again, I've had to, having been the lawyer, I've had to live in like the land of the worst that can happen. But that little light in me that refuses to die, I am pro relationships within very clear, respectful and human boundaries. I'll fish off that company, dog. Yay. All right.

All right. Woo. You know, real in a big one. All right. So shifting gears to a little questions and comments, what do we got? Any questions or comments, ladies? I do have a question, if you'd like me to go first.

Do you like the concept of work spouses? Have you had a work spouse? What are your thoughts on work spouses? I say work wife, but not so much like a work husband. I've never used that term. Isn't that funny though? But are you saying that about like a work wife is like... Are you saying that about another woman? Yeah. I mean, she's like my that about like... A work wife is like... Are you saying that about another woman?

Yeah. Like, I mean, she's like my work bestie. My work wife? No? No, I have... Oh, okay. I was like, I have several work wives. Okay. Okay. Cody Brown over here. Just call me sister wife. Okay. I like that show Big Love, by the way. That was a good show. Different from Sister Wives.

But anyway. I'll say this. No, I don't like the term because I just think it like... I like work show Big Love, by the way. That was a good show. Different from Sister Wives, but anyway. I'll say this. No, I don't like the term because I just think it like, I like work bestie, work friend. I don't like the term of it. In part, I have, long ago had been where two colleagues called each other who were like, one was the boss and one was my colleague

and they called each other work wife and more husband. And I'm like, am I like the work kid? And so, like, yeah. That's cringe. Don't. I like the concept of it. I always need a work bestie or a work husband or wife or whatever.

I like that connection with someone. You can have just unfiltered bitch. You know what I mean? Everyone needs a work bestie. Yeah. But I would never work bestie. Yeah. Yeah. But I would never use that terminology. Like if you're using that terminology, even if they are your work hubs or wifey or whatever, you know what I mean? Just don't say it like that. Like don't say it like that. You know? Oh, like that is cringe. But I like having kind of that, I don't know, that person that has your back like that,

but it's not a mentor. You know what I mean? Like I like the coffee date person, you know? Love, absolutely love. We had it once at a company that we had that, we did a development program, we had to find someone and they call it your Accountability Partner. And that also kind of like, I don't love that,

because that makes- It's a little long. AP, your AP. I mean, that's what people would say, like, work friend. But I have, and literally my person from this session, which was nine years ago, and we would actually, we would, we would meet and be like, OK, what are you working on? How do you think about that?

And I remember being like, oh, always relieved in those sessions. He commented on a LinkedIn post of mine like a week or two ago. And it was so nice. And his comment was like, I love to see what you've done. And you've always, you're exactly the same person or whatever. And I sent a message.

It was like, ugh, of course, can't just let it leave at a comment. Like, message like, you made my day, like that. But I do think having those people that lift you up and you can trust and rely on that don't come into your performance review or things like that. I do agree. I do think, but like I'll have my comment that I'll add on to this is there are few things more awkward than you're with like a holiday, like a company holiday party and like someone brings it up and it'll be like, oh, is this your work wife? Like, and this says, this hasn't happened to me.

I've observed this, but it's not been a part of these conversations. I mean, like, I know you'll call each other like work husband, work wife. And you're like, so. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Like who said that? The real spouse?

The spouse of the work husband. Yes. Because he's like my work wife. And so again, like the natural human emotion is if you hear other people getting close to your person, especially if they're using that same terminology, it can ignite some of those feelings. And I'm not a super jealous person, but like, I don't think I would like that very much. Yeah, well, I think I'm curious if like remote work has added to that, so then people can hear those conversations

that might otherwise happen in the workplace. If people can hear it when they're home with their actual spouse and then they hear them on the... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or you notice they're talking to the so-and-so a lot, right? I mean, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Who's that laugh for? Oh my, that's your laugh when you talk to Judy. Maybe not Judy, maybe that's Matt. I don't know. You talking to Lisa? Because that's your Lisa laugh right there. Right. Oh shit. Well, I have just a quick story actually. And I think of this a lot for some reason,

but it doesn't have to do with work wife or work husband, but back in my early days at Tractor Supply, there was a gentleman in the benefits department that our cubes were right next to each other and he was not my work husband. But we were right outside the benefits VP's office. And when she would get mad, she would just scream. And so he would like pop over my cube and be like, mommy's yelling again. And so it just made me, when you were thinking about it,

it cracks me up. So like whenever I see someone, I'm like, mommy and daddy are fighting. Shout out to Johnson. Johnson was his name. I loved him. He was a good guy. Didn't go by John?

That's his first name? Johnson? No, Johnson. No, him and his wife. Oh, super cute. Live in Cali now. We're still friends on Facebook. Oh, I love first names that are last names.

I know. Well, my son's name is Jones. I know. Love that. Love that. I'll piggyback on top of that. If you sometimes look at that terminology, and I were once being seen as legal in HR, every once in a while gets cc'd on things, like of someone that was really trying to prove a point. And it was a situation where like,

associate level person had like, let's say, done something, not even notable, a colleague, a colleague didn't like it and immediately wrote that person and CC'd their boss. And so they're like, ding in the person, didn't even have a conversation. Their first like, and CC'ing their boss. And so this person replied all. And it was like, God, I wish I still had access to this. I mean, it was, it was so good because it was professional and real. And they're like, like, I can't remember if they said like, come the fuck on, but like I got CC'd on and brought in

because they're like, okay, okay, you know what? Two can play this game. Like this happened, you don't, because also the person had made an assumption that wasn't true. So like the root of all workplace, like aggressive email chains often is making an assumption without a conversation and that's what happened.

And they're like, okay, and they're like, so you come in and they're like, you come in and think, oh, I need to send this by email, can't even have a conversation and that's what happened. They're like, okay. They're like, so you come in and they're like, you come in and think, oh, I need to send this by email. Can't even have a conversation. You need to see daddy, that's fine. I've added mom on top of this. So you can see exactly what happened and step by step.

I just remember getting this and being like, clear the schedule for the day. Here we are. It's the mom and dad. That was a use of that work wife, but work mom. It really resonated and it's the mom and dad thing. That was a use of like that work wife that, but like work mom, like mom and dad. And it really resonated. And it was like, it was the most professional kind of like well dictated. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good FU. So I loved that person in a platonic way. Oh damn. So we're pro relationships in the office, friendships,

So we're pro relationships in the office, friendships, dating ships, situationships, whatever. But we are anti-favoritism, preferential treatment stemming from those and leaders getting their rocks off on staff. Well summed up, our podcast in 15 seconds. Thank you, Lee. T-L-D-L. There you go. Just fast forward to the end. Oh gosh. Cast in 15 seconds. Thank you, Lee. TLDL. There you go.

Just fast forward to the end. Oh, gosh. Well, hey, besties. Good luck fishing off those dogs.