HR BESTIES - HR Besties: Work Life Balance

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Today’s agenda:  Workplace wubbie Cringe corporate speak: core competency Hot topic: all things work-life balance - who is responsible and is it achievable? What does work-life balance look like to us? The B word (boundaries) Unbalanced power dynamics - work-life balance is a shared responsibility but not always an equal opportunity Balance is fluid and circumstantial Questions/Comments  We'll be back for season 6 in August, Besties! Until then, we're due for a little R&R... Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrbesties.com⁠⁠⁠. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrbesties.com/about⁠⁠⁠.  Subscribe to the HR Besties Newsletter - ⁠⁠⁠https://hr-besties.beehiiv.com/subscribe⁠⁠⁠ We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! ⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠https://www.hrmanifesto.com⁠⁠⁠ Follow Bestie Ashley! ⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/managermethod⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠https://managermethod.com⁠⁠⁠ Follow Bestie Jamie! ⁠⁠⁠https://www.millennialmisery.com/⁠⁠⁠ Humorous Resources: ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠ Millennial Misery: ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠X⁠⁠⁠ Horrendous HR: ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠ • ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠ Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A whoopie. I'm starting this like a Lee. I love this story. A whoopie. Have you all ever heard of a whoopie? It's like a Passy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So it's kind of like a comfort. I'd never heard of this term in my whole life. Me neither. Me neither. I'm a Passy person. I mean, not now. Well, no shame. No King's shaming here on this podcast. Never.

So, the Whoopi was a nickname that was given to an employee for someone that was pretty high up in the company. And how this all came about is essentially at this place of employment that I worked, we had a CFO. And I'm not sure if this was their first CFO job, but they were a little unsure of themselves. And so they needed a comfort item. They needed a whoopie. Their whoopie was a person. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

And this person, insanely intelligent, probably actually could have held that role. Yeah, doing the job for him. Yeah, like totally could have held the role. Just did not actually want it, I don't think. I think they were happy with where they were at at that time. And so it became a thing where everyone in the company then started referring to this other person as the CFO's whoopie. So like, did you invite the whoopie to the meeting? Don't forget the whoopie.

Yeah. Does the whoopie need flight arrangements? Because they travel and things like that always needed to be by the side. Yeah. Is the Whoopi coming to dinner? So yeah, the Whoopi was the CFO's comfort. And as far as I know, I'm long gone, but the Whoopi and the CFO are still there. And I don't think the Whoopi as quite as needed, but the will be still has to come in from time to time and comfort the CFO. Comfort and support with information and data and what to do and say and all the things.

So it's almost like being someone's right hand, but like almost unhealthy codependency and lacking compensation title and benefits that would come with the levels. For sure. Oh, of course. It just means like exploited person. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I'm thinking now if I've ever been a whoopie.

I feel like I've definitely been a whoopie. Not that I meant to be, but I remember one of my old bosses telling me I was her right and left hand. And so I think I was a whoopie, but I did not have a cute name. Molly, what do you think? Have you been a whoopie? Yeah, I've been a whoopie for sure. But it's a difficult position being a whoopie because like Jamie was saying, it's not like

something I asked for. You get in a situation or you inherit a boss or you come into a new job and you don't realize that your boss is super insecure or how much they know or not or whatever. You don't know if they're really going to like you, if they're really not going to like you or vice versa or whatever. But yeah, I think I've been in a situation like that before where I had a boss just all about me and it makes you a target. Like the team, some of them, they start going to you instead of the boss. So you're doing part of the manager job and some they're avoiding you because they're jealous or they despise the fact you're a whoopie, something you didn't even ask for.

It's like, oh my God, I don't want to be a whoopie. But yeah, it's difficult. Does she want to be a whoopie, Jamie? I don't think she ever intended to be a whoopie. That's for damn sure. But there are some benefits of like, depending on the CFO, it's a little bit like Yian and Yang and they kind of travel fit together because the CFO isn't going to get found out for their lack of competency because the whoopie is providing them the things they need, so they're getting the kudos.

So there is this level of job security. For sure. And so I can see having some advantages if you don't have to take on all the BS that comes with having a chief whatever title. I can totally see people whose love language is like giving that are totally cool with having a wooby role. I'm just curious, if you've ever been part of a layoff, then you know there's like a layoff list.

And sometimes it's the question of, do you let people get a peek into that of what that's gonna look like, have an opportunity to have a sense. And again, well, in the healthiest organization, we're not gonna hopefully have any layoffs. But when you have those, having information can be better than after the fact when a manager finds out they lost three team members on their team. And they're like, well, that would have been great information

to advocate for beforehand. But sometimes there are spreadsheets and people will write like notes of notes in these meetings. And so I'm just wondering if anyone out there has ever had a spreadsheet where they're going through and they're like, oh, this person take them off the list. They're getting saved notes. Whoopi. This person's saved because they're my whoopi. And that's discoverable. Yeah. And that would be hilarious. I can tell you having a lawyer and people, it is amazing the people, including people with very, very high titles that believe by popping the words privileged and confidential somewhere along the chain,

somewhere just dropping them somewhere in the chain, that that means it's not discoverable. And it is having been through those in the situations where a judge is looking at things, what's called in camera, which is just the judge judging you. And they're like, no, this is not privileged as you think. That is a very business folks having to learn that lesson in a courtroom. It's not a fun lesson to learn. We got really, we got really far from whoopee to court lessons. This is my kind of day, ladies. Oh, gosh. At Desjardins Insurance, we put the care in taking care of business. Your business, to be exact.

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Well, speaking of lessons and things to learn, shall we kick this meeting off? First things first, let's run through the agenda. Thank you so much for that hot goss and water cooler talk, Jamie. Next up, we got some cringe corporate speak, which I'm going to bring to y'all. And then our hot topic for today is all things work-life balance, right? So who's responsible in the workplace for ensuring work-life balance for employees? And is it even achievable?

Right? So we'll turn it inside out a little bit. We're getting up here to summertime. So it's very, very timely. And then as always, some questions and comments to close out the meeting. How does that sound? Wonderful. So cringe corporate speak for today besides whoopi. Core competency. Core competency. I know, right? I kind of have a physical reaction to that. Yeah. Core competency. Oh my goodness. Have you all ever heard this in the workplace?

Of course. And it's always usually around performances and yes, you know, we're measuring people on core competencies. Mm-hmm. I love it when it's like, well, it's one of our core competencies as a business. Oh yeah, that's my favorite. Okay, so it's just something that we it's one of our core competencies as a business. Oh, yeah. That's my favorite. OK, so it's just something that we're good at? Like what? It's literally just something we just put on a poster and hung it in the break room. Everybody.

Everyone. Exactly. It's our core competency. Do you all use this? Have you used this? I've probably used it in the sense of performance reviews or that, but I don't think I've ever whipped it out in a meeting. You know what I mean?

Like, hey, we need to... Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've done that. Just plopped it on the table there. No. I probably have used it responding back to someone, but no. I would say job duties.

Yeah. Core job duties, which is probably not using core competency as much as the term job duties probably has cost me earnings over the years with not wanting to use that terminology. I can think of Workplace as one large consulting firm in particular that I definitely would hear core competency and I would chuckle to myself to think, you know, KFC, we just called that job duties and it was exactly the same thing. Yeah, of course it was. Yeah.

What about you, Lee? I can think of a workplace and again, like you're saying, like certain workplaces have certain cringe speak, right? And you know, I can think of one where everything was a freaking core competency. It was always talking about the business, not like job duties or performance. It was like, well, that's one of our core competencies. Did you connect with the customer and tell them that's a core competency of ours? Everything was just core competency this and core competency that.

Oh man, I don't know why we didn't just abbreviate to CC but then you got the CC with the email maybe that would have been confusing CC's I don't know yeah but everything was a freaking core competency I mean big time so which I think part of my problem with this is I actually think it's legitimately there are people that would not understand what that means and I can think of like phases in my life it reminds me and I don't think we would ever use this as crunch corporate speak, but I'm about to give us a little two for one. But the same, I remember value proposition.

When I started and I worked in sales in this, like bosses, bosses, like the head of all the sales things, I like sat in on this sales call. It was really interesting to listen and like hear people actually sell. So I recommend that as an organization to give opportunities for people to listen to others. But I remember this SVP of everything sales was like, how are you delivering the value proposition? I was like, I don't know what the F that means.

And that was like, ooh, that was 20 plus years ago. No chat GPT there. I looked at him. You know what I said? His name is Paul. I said, Paul, you know what? I want to be the type of team player that lights a fire under my own ass.

And I said that back to him. I swear to God, I still remember the meeting. And he was like, yes. Yes, that's fucking brilliant. All right. And I really wasn't that good at sales, to be honest with you. I was good at the research and all those things.

I just, I like to build relationships. It's the commercial aspect that's always a challenge. But I just remember, I don't know what came over me and I said that. Best thing I could have possibly said at the moment because I had nothing substantive to say. You're just BSing back, you know? And that's corporate right there, bam.

But I remember that was a workplace and that was my first job out of college and I totally remember core competency and like talking to CFOs about core competency. I couldn't name a single actual finance core competency to save my life, but I tried to. I do love the term value proposition. I can't help it. I mean, again, I work somewhere else and everything.

What's the value prop? Value prop? What's the VP? What's the VP? Value prop, everything. Oh, damn, man. Well, gosh, we've got a lot of cringe speak today. So we got, I mean, we got Whoopi, we got core competencies, we got value prop now, we got

all sorts of shit here. So we certainly encourage you all to drop some of those just to entertain yourself in your workplace here. Enjoy, enjoy. I mean, you got a buffet of cringe corporate speak to choose from. But should we transition to the hot topic, all things work-life balance in the workplace? Absolutely. Right? Who is responsible for work-life balance? Should we define it first? High level?

The one thing is, I think the three of us might have different definitions of what that looks like. Oh, for sure. What would you say, Jamie? Well, I'm probably the worst at ask. Jamie's like, it's a big 72 point font work and a six point superscript font of life. I'm the worst of the three of us to probably ask. But I think it's how you balance your personal life, obviously, with your work life and how, what boundaries you're able to set when it comes to like your personal time or family time or vacations.

We had an episode not that long ago where I said, this will be the first vacation I've ever taken that I won't bring a work laptop. Well, it's because I don't have one because I was laid off. You know what I mean? That's my fault, right? I didn't create a work-life balance. And so then you are almost taken advantage of for that. Yeah, no, absolutely.

I mean, I think for me, and it's funny, Ashka, you're like, oh, we probably have different definitions. I think that it's evolved for me into self-preservation and protecting myself. You know, how Jamie was talking about boundaries, absolutely. But work-life balance for me is now a lot of personal advocacy. So not just fitting in vacations, but protecting my wellness and my health and my work as well while I'm working. It's really evolved conceptually. What about you, Ashley?

How would you define work-life balance? Life experiences do shape this. And so, one of mine, as I've mentioned, my first in-house counsel role, I went from working 24-7 in the law firm environment, just nature of that environment often, to all of a sudden an 8-5 work-life balance. And so, for me, I'm a little stuck on that because that, to me me shaped so much of how I live my life. Because I remember in particular on Sunday nights, I would drive on my way home from somewhere and I would see people out having dinner on a Sunday night and I couldn't, like I would look at this and literally couldn't believe, how could you possibly sit and enjoy,

like it would be wasteful because I'd be so, I had such levels of levels of stress. And so I remember when I started this job and all of a sudden, and it wasn't, it wasn't just me. And so one thing I want to get back to is Jamie's point of like, it was my fault. I didn't create these boundaries. And I think for a lot of people, that's how you feel because it's the employee's job, but that's not realistic. I don't believe for me, my boss going into that role, who was a male general counsel with a wife who stayed at home, nanny, like no reason in the grand scheme of life for me to think he would understand my life, which was like two working parents, I had a young year and a half toddler.

And he proactively, you know, this is what it is, you will not work at nights on the weekends. And that was absolutely supported. And so there was no expectation that I was going to be jumping on things at 8.39 tonight. My weekends were mine. And so for me, it was a test of, I had these actually pretty firm official boundaries. And so on Sunday nights, I started going out to dinner. And it sounds so sad to say what a challenge or change that was in my life But it was I felt free. I like I felt like I had so for me part of it is actually having

divides and so now as I have my business for example Like I generally block out Mondays and Fridays to work to get things done because if I jump on Calls and things like that back and forth even if someone's like, oh, can I can I pick your brain? I do that for three hours afterwards. I have no, I can't get stuff done. So for me to be effective, I have times where I have calls. I have times when I generally don't. And so for me, it's been a little bit more

of like firm things like that. So you touched upon kind of that responsibility factor, right? And the reality is, is that there are totally unbalanced power dynamics at play when it comes to work-life balance, right? I think it's definitely a shared responsibility, but it is not an equal one at all. To Jamie's point, oh gosh, boundaries are so important. Absolutely.

But it's just one piece, right? Your employer has to actually respect them. They have to respect them. They have to allow PTO. They have to respect you as a whole person. I mean, there's so much more that an employer needs to do to ensure a healthy work-life balance versus an employee just setting boundaries,

right? It's culture, it's expectations, it's goals, it's the whole system in that workplace at play on whether work-life balance is achievable or not. I mean, what do you all think from a responsibility standpoint? Yeah, I definitely don't think it's just me or the employees' responsibility. I think a big portion of that comes down to the culture of the company, but also the leader, right? So if the leader is pinging you at 630 at night or 830 at night or whatever it is and

they need something, I think that's going to play a part because then you feel like you have to be on. I mean, I remember one time I was actually taking a bath. And I remember checking something real quick on my teams and my boss pinging me and being like, hey, I saw you were green. And I was on my phone in the bathtub. Then I felt obligated to get out of the bathtub, go to my work computer, and then work on the thing that she asked me. It's like, that's so stupid. One, I shouldn't have looked,

but it was bothering me and I wanted to look up this document while I was laying in the bathtub. But I was green, but also it was well after five o'clock, six o'clock. So who's responsible for that? Were you in the hospital once? Yeah, my child. Uh-huh. Yes, her with her child.

Johnny was in the hospital. Yeah, in the ICU. Can your husband come get the laptop? Yep. And my husband went and got my laptop. And you know what's funny is while we were sitting here talking, that same boss, I remember her telling me, this was pre-pandemic, so keep that in mind. I remember her telling me though, when she went to find a job, she wasn't going to pass a certain exit from her house. Like it was this exit.

Oh, okay. Like her commute could only be- Yeah, like she didn't want to drive far. Yeah. And I remember thinking that and I was actually thinking about this and then her holding that over me. And please keep in mind, I lived like a good hour away from this job and she lived like 15 minutes. But, and then my son being in the ICU, yeah, she was a nut job. She, same thing. She was the one, the boss that would send emails at three in the morning because she would wake up and she would start

firing off emails at three in the morning. So when would wake up and she would start firing off emails at three in the morning. So when I would get in at seven, I would have 20 emails from her of things. And she's also the person that called me her right and left hand. So do that with what you will. But yeah, I didn't feel like... Safe. Now, the good thing there is pre-pandemic is when I left at five or whatever, I was truly gone. I didn't have much of an attachment to my phone back then. Pre-pandemic was a little

different, you know? One of the reasons we talked about this is we've had conversations, we talk off of the podcast as well, but there had been a podcast with Emma Grady, who's the CEO of Skims. And in that, and I actually pulled up the transcript because I wanted to make sure. But what she said, and I'd made a TikTok responding to this, but what she said was, and this is to employees, work-life balance is your problem. It isn't the employer's responsibility. And she goes on and says, I have four kids. I had to figure out how I would do that. And we have to be honest. But basically, if anyone says that they're successful and have evenings and weekends, they're lying to you.

And the biggest thing I take about that is, as an employer and as a manager, and it's one thing I always say, an organization has to support this. But an organization is made up of people. And so whatever your role is, and in our newsletter this week, which we have, you can look at our description, we include questions. And so I think it's important to recognize who am I in an organization as you're listening to this? Are you HR? Are you a senior leader? Are you a line manager? Are you a colleague that doesn't have direct reports? We welcome all, obviously, in our podcast audience. But some of this is no matter what you do, you have an impact on the work-life balance of those that you work with. And very rarely do you have to

do certain things. Like, you don't have to. You don't have to be the type of boss that schedule sends at 8 a.m. as opposed to 3 a.m. You don't have to. You don't have to do these things that often people say, like, God, people are soft. Read it whenever you... I'll send at 8 a.m. as opposed to 3 a.m. You don't have to. You don't have to do these things that often people say like, God, people are soft. Read it whenever you, I'll send it when it's convenient for me. Read it when it's convenient for you.

And while there's some exception from like global workplaces where it's just not realistic to time things all over the place, but often it's this perspective that you have such a hand, whether you're that colleague and someone's out reaching out to them because you need something or the way you treat people.

And so that first sentence of work-life balance is your problem, that it's on the employee and that it's a problem. Those are the workplaces that they may get things done in the short term, but over the long term, you will see turnover and you will see glass door. You will have a harder time recruiting the very people that you think should want to work for you because you are burning people out with that sort of mindset, especially if it's, I went through this, so you should be able to survive it too.

Yeah. As if we're all the same people. And I bet her definition of success is being rich, just if I had to guess, you know, it's money. And see, not everyone has the same definition of success, do they? And it changes throughout your career too. Maybe at one point mine was money, because I was poor as hell, bitch had to eat. But it's definitely evolved now, it's changed.

It's more like peace here. But wow, that is wild to have a leader in 2025 say that, in my opinion. Work-life balance should be a core competency, frankly. It should be. I like that. I love it. I know I snuck in the word, but for real, like it should be. It should be not just HR's responsibility, not just the company, not just the leaders.

It should be everybody's responsibility and we should hold ourselves to that. It shouldn't be that hard. Do you ever wish that you had an HR legal bestie in your pocket? 650 is just that. Your trusted, always available ally for your employment law questions, minus the hefty price tag of a lawyer. Compliance may not be your favorite chore in HR, but it's important and it's hard. But 650 is here to make it easy.

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ahead with 650's seamless solutions. Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Rogers Stadium with Go Transit. Thanks to Go Transit's special online e-ticket fairs, a $10 one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel on any weekend day or holiday, anywhere along the Go network. And the weekday group passes offer the same weekday travel flexibility across the network, starting at $30 for two people and up to $60 for a group of five. Buy your online Go Pass ahead of the show at Gotransit.com slash tickets. Imagine if you're interviewing somewhere, not just when you start working there, but imagine you're interviewing with an organization and they proactively say to you, we want you to come here and do good work, but also we

want you to be able to live a full life outside of work. And we take it as our responsibility and privilege to help you do not just do the job at work, but also build a team that you want to come and work with. But then when you leave, to be able to live that life outside of work. And so that overall, we are a net positive to your life working here. Can you imagine? I've never heard that before. Yeah, I will take a giant pay cut.

Yeah. But what you're saying, again, you shouldn't have to, but again, when I had left to take the job with that work-life balance, like going from a law firm to in-house counsel, I took probably 25% pay cut, let's say. I don't want to say now I would have taken a bigger pay cut because they'll come and take some money from me. But nothing. There is a privilege that I have had of growing older and some of the hard things that you

go through, very hard things that you go through, is having the opportunity to realize life matters. And sometimes, you know, more money, more problems is so true, but it's building those relationships. And to me, I agree with you, like success is looking around and feeling like what you do matters and the people that you work with care about you and that you can live that life and not feel guilty or tied to your phone or your laptop or things like that and being able to make enough money that you're not stressed about money. Yeah. I mean, to your point, I mean, balance for me is really autonomy.

It is, you know, and I think people look at balance and there's kind of like this perception that it's got to look perfect, meaning it's 50-50. It's not 50-50 every day. It ebbs and it flows. Balance is fluid. It's seasonal, depending on what you do. You definitely shouldn't be logging off or going home every night and feeling like the scales are always against you.

I mean, an aggregate. You should have some autonomy to live your life and live it the way you believe you should live it, however you define success. Cheers to that CEO. That's her idea of success and that, okay, good for you, except she's affecting a whole bit of a bunch of people. You know what I mean? We all have different definitions here, but yeah, for me, it really is that autonomy piece

and the balance that drives me, drives me and draws me. Nicole Forrest You are responsible for setting your own boundaries and keeping them right. But I think you also have to ask for help or check in. You have to protect your energy, really. I yeah, advocate for yourself. You need to be able to speak up to your boss and be like, look, this project, I'm not logging off until eight o'clock every night. I really need, you know, or whatever. And I feel like I have had the conversation numerous times in every different position I've had with leaders about flexibility. And I know I've said this a thousand times on the podcast, but I cannot tell you, I mean,

literally how many times I've had this conversation with different leaders just about being flexible with their employees. Sometimes it's simple stuff, right? One time I remember someone's son made the middle school football team, which my son is also playing middle school football. This was well before me though, my child. But on Tuesdays, they played and JV played at five and she technically would get off work at five.

So she was asking to get off at 430. And the manager was like, absolutely not. I was like, why? But why not? Why not? It's every Tuesday for I think was only like 10 weeks. I was like, why, but why not? Why not? It's every Tuesday for, I think it was only like 10 weeks. It wasn't even that long. Like actually it might not even been 10 weeks.

And I was like, why don't you just ask her to come in 30 minutes early or stay 30 minutes late another day? Like it's 30 minutes. And I remember having to sit this manager down and tell them, it would be different if the game was at the middle of the day, right? But it's, she'd have to leave at 4 30 to get to the game of five. Like it was absurd to me

that I'm having to tell this manager, it's okay. Well, they're going to set a precedent. So the fuck what? I want every person in this building to be able to go to their child's function, or maybe it's not their child, maybe it's their husband's thing, or their, you know, I want them to be able to do that. And if that's us accommodating 30 minutes, and they're not abusing it, let them. Like grow up. I remember handling and having where an employee had made a, you know, not complaint, like reached out because they were frustrated because they're, they wanted to do a workout class during the day.

But their question was, what's the policy? Because the manager's telling me, we have a policy that it's only an hour for lunch. Shocking turn of events, no specific policy there existed to that point. And the course manager's like, can we make that a policy real quick, backdate it, whatever.

But the employee was like, and I'm like, okay, what's the reason, you know, for this? Was this like a one-time thing? And like, I really want to do a workout class during the day. But this workout class generally is almost an hour and I can take a quick shower and come back, but it's like an hour and a half. And I offered to come early, stay late, do whatever, so it's the same amount of work,

but the manager's like, no, it's an hour. Same thing, totally arbitrary. And so as I'm having the conversation, and again, I'm always trying to be non-judgmental in these situations, because my guess is that manager doesn't want to do something to the point to create an exception and then everybody else is pointing and it just stirs up things. I totally get that. So I remember having the conversation, I said, but all of the same work is going to get done, and now you have this person that's going to come and they're going to feel refreshed. And of course, what if they have wet hair? Is that a problem? Again, it's the dress code.

You know, same. So all the questions that you get, you know, again, I thankfully had anticipated I would get that. I'd say, well, you know, really, as a customer face, does it really matter? You know, can they dry? How long does it take to dry their hair? I don't know. But I said, but we're having this conversation now. And I said, I get it. I said, what is making you really say no? And same thing there. Like, you know, I just don't want to do something. Now everyone's asking for it, and it's hard as a manager. People take advantage of you.

And so I hear that. But if you approach things with saying no because of that, then now you have this person that literally, what if this person left because they just wanted to take a workout class during the day? And I'm like, we're taking time doing that. We're that. I'm charging my time back to your location.

It wasn't. Just kidding. But all the things, we're taking time doing that, we're that, I'm charging my time back to your location. I wasn't just kidding. But all the things, I'm like, we're having these conversations about it. And I just think having that recognition on flexibility is a really important one. Yeah. Like grow up, you know? But I do think it comes from fear. I do think a lot of it comes from fear, control, and what people have seen of their examples. And that's why I really, really think,

as those HR, in particular, listening, who are tired of all the comments, I mean, I've gotten so many of them recently about, nobody's like this in HR, HR's, you know. And it's hard, it really, oh God, it gets to you. I'm like, why do you think I'm making videos? To show how it can be different. I promise you, I'm not trying to take you to fantasy land.

But so as HR, if you can say to your leaders, whatever that audience is like, but to say, what would it be like as an organization if we took the approach that we want to help our employees do good work while they're here? What are we not doing now that we could? And also, help them live fuller lives outside of work. What would that look like? And what would the impact be to our teams?

And that is the first step in real conversations. So, what I'm hearing is that work-life balance is achievable, but only if your manager isn't an asshole, your workplace isn't toxic, and your leadership walks the talk and believes in work-life balance for themselves. I mean, you've just summarized our whole podcast. I'm glad this is towards the end of the episode so people don't do this at the beginning, then people won't listen. This is Lee GPT.

I like it. It's a great synthesis. Exactly. There you go. And it has always got expletives in it. Ha ha ha ha. That's how it's done, boys. Smurfs. Only in theaters July 18th. No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders.

Shop now at nofrills.ca. Questions and comments, ladies? Are we ready to transition, close this topic out? What do you all got? I have one that I was thinking of when we were talking about the whoopie. Whoopie? Whoopie or whoopie? Whoopie.

Whoopie. However you want to say it. We had thumb sucking in my house. We didn't have whoopies. But have you ever heard the expression, salt and pepper travel together? Like at a table? No. No?

Okay. Jamie's shaking her head. So, I remember I heard that, and so I took that as gospel. I didn't do like, cotillion etiquette, that stuff, like growing up. And so, but so someone I learned said, always pass salt and pepper together. And they're like, just sing the song to yourself, salt and pepper travel together. And so whenever someone says pass the salt, I always pass the salt and pepper. But more times than not, people are like, no, I just said salt. Like, I know, but they're together. So now I'm just curious of listeners if you've ever heard that little sing song.

And if someone asks you to pass the salt, if you just pass the salt or you also pass the pepper. So I'm going to pop that in our Instagram stories for a very scientific and important poll. I've never heard of that. Yeah, I haven't either. Sorry. You don't need to apologize.

You've heard it now. So now you will be out to dinner with friends or family and you'll start singing it and then spill salt all over the place. Now I have to pass them both. I guess. I'll fill a glass. I just asked for the salt. Right?

Exactly. Ashley told me, you know, all the details. Etiquette says, I have to pass you everything. They traveled together. So not a comment from me, but just a quick question, right? We're talking about whoobies. What are some of y'all's fun nicknames, work or in life? Ooh, this is a good one. So in life, I was known as J-Fro, like all growing up J-Fro,

because my maiden name is Frolic. So I was J-Fro, and now I'm J-Fro Jack. But yeah, so like remember when J-Lo first was like calling herself J-Lo? Like, I think my brother called me J-Fro, and then it justLo first was calling herself JLo? I think my brother called me J-Fro, and then it just stuck and everyone called me J-Fro. That's funny. Of course. That's a throwback, JLo. What about you, Leigh? In life, we, like W-E-E.

We? Oh, I like that. Yeah, it's like a family thing. And my first and middle name, I'm named after my maternal grandparents. And so Lea Elena, like people that love me, they call me Lea Elena, the people that really know me, my family and stuff. But they would call me Wee Wayna, Wee Wayna, Wee Wayna. That's cute. That's what I hear from tons of people still, even in my

40s. Weowana. Did you have a work nickname? Bitch. Freaking bitch. Mean HR lady. HR lady. I was recently called HR Destiny. Oh, yeah. HR Destiny, yes. Someone at a conference called me that. Yeah, it's you, HR Destiny. HR, yeah, it's HR Destiny. What the fuck? People know who you are. HR Destiny is here. HR Mommy. So that could be a good name on some other platforms.

Yeah, OF. OF-y thing, HR Mama. Yeah, HR Mommy, yeah. Oh, that. E. H. R. Mama. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that costs extra. What about you, Ash? Well, one was my maiden name was Vinsol. And so one of my friends had too much to drink in college and called me Vince Gill. I love that. That one lasted for quite a while. But one nickname was when I was in college, like fraternities would have nicknames for people.

I've mentioned this because there was another fraternity that had the do-me-decimal nickname for the librarian that would come partying at the frat parties. But this fraternity, and I was the fraternity sweetheart for Beta Theta Pi at Center College, which if you know these things, I was the absolute worst. I was not like a good hostess. I didn't know how to do these things. I didn't really want to do those things.

So I was a one and done year for that, but I was for this fraternity. And so we all went to my parents' house before the Derby for like a big barbecue or something in Louisville for Derby weekend. And somehow they're like, oh, we have nicknames and the fraternity for people. And they're like, yeah, like, oh, this one over here, we call her Ghostface Killa. She's really pale. Geez, what? And then my mom's like, what's Ashley's nickname? And I'm like, oh, we call her Fembot because she walks like a robot. And she walks kind of robotic. My mom starts laughing and she's like, yeah, I can see that. I was so mad.

I was like, no, I don't. So anyway, for 25 years, I've been self-conscious of my robotic walk. So anyway, your robotic ways. Well, I saw you dancing and you do not dance like a robot. You dance like a worm. Thank you. Unless she does the robot. Yeah, unless she does a robot. You dance like a worm. Thank you. Unless she does the robot. Yeah, unless she does the robot.

Yeah, she does that. I can do the robot. All right. Well, I have a quick comment. Well, actually two quick comments. That's one long comment. Yeah. Just to wrap up on work-life balance.

Work-life balance just really means pretending not to see the email or the chat that came after hours that you can respond to in the morning. So that's just friendly advice. And the last comment, this is our last episode until our summer hiatus. So besties, the month of July, we are enjoying our life and not podcasting, but we will be back in August for season six. Yes. Yes. See, work-life balance and action. Yep. So we have plenty. So if you've missed any, which we have over a hundred episodes, so those that haven't missed any, just go re-listen because that also counts and we appreciate you especially. But if you haven't, go back and listen to some of them, especially some of the early

ones. Revisit maybe the Dave Ramsey ones. I would listen to one of those. I normally don't like to hear my own voice, but one of those had popped up and I was listening to it and like chuckling because now it's been a couple years since we recorded that. So we have some content for you. And enjoy, right? Find that balance. Yes. Take that vacation. PTO PTO.

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