Huberman Lab - How to Build Immense Inner Strength | David Goggins

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

In this episode, my guest is David Goggins, retired Navy SEAL, highly accomplished ultramarathoner, best-selling author, and influential public speaker. David explains how he mastered his inner dialogue to build extraordinary levels of discipline and mental and physical toughness. He describes how confronting his early hardships, including physical and mental abuse, learning disorders, and obesity, became a practice of deep and excruciating self-reflection — eventually allowing him to transmute those experiences into a superhuman work ethic. This conversation is a unique window into David Goggins’ process in that it focuses both on the underlying science and how David manages and directs his inner dialogue. It’s a conversation that will inform and inspire anyone wondering how exactly to go about building discipline and confidence and reach their potential. Note: This conversation includes profanity. Some content might not be suitable for all audiences and ages. For show notes, including referenced articles and additional resources, please visit hubermanlab.com. Use Ask Huberman Lab, our new AI-powered platform, for a summary, clips, and insights from this episode. Thank you to our sponsors AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/hubermanlab Waking Up: https://wakingup.com/huberman Momentous: https://livemomentous.com/huberman Timestamps (00:00:00) David Goggins (00:03:39) Sponsors: LMNT & Waking Up (00:07:58) Learning, Studying & Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) (00:14:59) Writing & Learning, ADHD & Focus (00:20:35) Friction, Focus, “Conqueror’s Mindset” (00:25:16) Early Hardships, “Haunted” (00:30:48) Anger, Social Media; Growth & Challenges (00:34:41) Sponsor: AG1 (00:37:11) Stick vs. Carrot, Negative Inner Dialogue, “Stay Hard” (00:42:39) Inspiration, Characters & Self Image (00:46:09) Willpower & Anterior Mid-Cingulate Cortex (00:53:23) Friction & the “Suck”, Willpower (00:59:14) Building Willpower, Brain & “No Days Off” Mentality  (01:09:54) Losing Weight, Challenge & Willpower (01:18:47) Self-Criticism & Discipline; Recovery; Stutter & Building Confidence (01:26:45) Relationships & Honest Conversations, People Pleasing (01:34:49) Self-Reflection & Empowerment (01:39:06) Unseen Work, Real Passion & Purpose, Medicine Cabinet Analogy (01:46:32) Feeling Lost, Self-Reflection & Individual Process (01:54:11) Challenges & Two Internal Voices, Misunderstood (01:59:32) Running, Smoke Jumping; Success; Willpower & Perishable Skills (02:07:04) Self-Reflection & Action, Distractions (02:15:27) Inner Dialogue; Failing Properly (02:24:59) Introspection & Unconscious Mind, Cleaning “Cupboards” (02:35:19) Zero-Cost Support, Spotify & Apple Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Sponsors,  Momentous, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter Disclaimer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is David Gaggins. David Gagins is a retired Navy SEAL who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner. For those of you that don't know, ultramarathons are distances longer than 26 miles, and in David's case, often longer than 200 miles. For his achievements in athletics, he has been inducted

into the International Sports Hall of Fame. He also held a Guinness World Record for the most pull-ups completed in 24 hours. I should mention that not only was David a decorated Navy SEAL, but he also graduated from Army Ranger School. David is also a highly successful writer, having authored two books, the first entitled Can't Hurt Me,

and the second entitled Never Finished, both of which are bestsellers. David's books cover many times. including his autobiographical description of what can only be described as an incredibly challenging child and young adulthood. His home was abusive, his school environment was abusive. He essentially had no positive resources directed his way. And in his 20s, he found himself to be obese.

That is, more than 300 pounds working a job he despised for minimal pay. And it was at that point that David began an inner dialogue that forced him to explore the demons born out of his childhood, but also the position that he found himself in as a young man, and then began the journey to navigate that dialogue and transform himself into the Navy SEAL, the Ultramarathon Runner, the best-selling author, and the extraordinarily positive and influential man that he is today. As some of you may know, David has done various public lectures. He's a familiar face online because there are so many clips of him on YouTube, and he has done podcasts before. However, I'm certain that you'll find today's discussion to be very different

than previous podcasts that David has been featured on. The reason is that, of course, we get into his accomplishments. We talk about the mindset that allowed him to achieve those things. But today, David really lets us under the hood. He lets us into the form of inner dialogue that he has to embrace, indeed that he has to grapple with on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times throughout the day and night in order to impose the sort of self-discipline that he is so well known for. We also get into some of the scientific mechanisms underlying willpower, and we talk about David's current endeavors that include, for instance, his own exploration of science and medicine, for which he has become an intense scholar and practitioner. I should mention that

multiple times throughout today's discussion, you will hear curse words. Now, David and I both acknowledge that cursing isn't for everybody. and that cursing itself is different than cursing at somebody. Nonetheless, we do realize that many people, parents perhaps, especially, might not want to hear cursing. If you don't want to hear cursing, well, then this podcast episode is probably not for you. However, if you are comfortable with cursing or if you can tolerate it, I assure you today's discussion is highly worthwhile.

Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. And now for my discussion with David Guggins. David Gagins, welcome. My man, good to see you again, man. Great to see you. It was late 2016, early 2017, I believe, when you were in my lab at Stanford. Yes, sir. We did a little work later that that day down in San Jose and gosh, see you everywhere, but it's not enough.

So great to have you here. Thanks for having me all, brother. Yeah. You embody discipline and doing hard things. Right. I think you just start right off with the bold truth. Let's just go there. The bold truth.

But right before we went hot mics, right. We were talking about learning. Right. Right now you're spending some time learning and doing things that I think most people probably don't typically associate David Goggins with. Right.

Why don't you tell us about that? Well, most people just look at me as the guy that runs and yells as he's running. And that's while I do that, you know, to motivate people. But people don't understand that my day is broken up into segments. I work out, I eat, I sleep, but I spend most of my time studying. So, like, I'm in the medical world. I'm a, you know, paramedic in a Canada. but I spent a lot of my time trying to nuke every single thing about it

because I'm not trying to just be a paramedic, learn about veins and arteries and how the heart pumps and stuff like that. I'm trying to learn to the point where I can save someone's life. And even though paramedics are doing that all over the world, I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really dissect exactly what's going on and figure out what medication goes where. Just trying to, you know, just trying to learn the algorithm of what's going on, man. So I spend a lot of time with it.

I love the word algorithm because when I teach biology or try and learn anything that's related to biology, especially the human body, I need to know the nouns. Yep. But it's the verbs that matter. And that's really what you're talking about. Like just saying that sits there, that brain part there doesn't tell you how it all works together. So what is your process for studying look like?

Like if we dropped a camera in the room, but a microphone into that, into your inner dial. Right. Gosh, wouldn't we all love that? But if we dropped a microphone into your inner dialogue, are you waking up looking at the books and going, yeah, fresh day, let's learn? Or is some of the same resistance that you've talked about coming up around physical work? Is that coming up from time to time? You know what?

I was nervous at first. I'm going to keep the mother, I'm going to keep it real. Please. So I'm not a real smart guy. And what I mean by that is I was born with ADD, ADHD, all the other, all the other, My brain cannot retain information. I'm not some genetic frequent when it comes to running when it comes to lifting weights.

I am absolutely the bottom of the barrel. And people will never believe me. And they can just, you know, whatever, believe what you want to believe. So when you're asking this question about what does studying look like for me, I have to go over the same page over and over and over again. While Jennifer can look at that page, while she's. you know, quizzing me, she'll learn it right then as she's, she'll know anything about it. She will quiz herself or quiz me

and learn it as she's quizzing me. It's the most frustrating thing in the world how my brain works. So what I do is I literally sit there with a pen and paper and I have my books and I go through and have to write everything down every single day. I will study the same page until it's photographic memory. from writing the same thing down. And then from there, I'll go back through and re-learned again.

So I'll learn the bulk of it. But then I'll go through and learn the small things within that. So if it's a medication, I'll learn what the medication does. First, I'll learn how to even say the medication. Because these medications aren't like, you know, like albuterol. No, it's very big words. So I'll go through, learn how to say the name. Then I'll go through, learn what the doses.

Then I'll go through, and this is like every single day. It's not like, oh, I got it. Let's just go through. No, nothing is I got it. Every single thing. So I can't wait to get in this conversation because everything I do in life, it sucks. Everything I do in life, it sucks.

That's why when I was 300 pounds and 24 years old, it wasn't like I had some big epiphany of, let's just go be a Navy seal and let's lose some weight. No, I knew my entire life was going to be a struggle which is why I just ignored it. And I said, I'm not even trying to jump off into this shit and learn how to read,

how to write, how to memorize, how to become something I am not. But through that process, something happened to me. And I realized, this is why I feel sorry for no one. In this podcast, they're going to really not like me because people are going to think that I am maybe lying or maybe fibbing or exaggerating. No, I am literally, I was the lowest form on earth, no talent,

no ability to learn, and I literally know what it is to be rock bottom and to build that up. So that question about learning is a pain in my ass. And I don't have to do it. It's the thing about it, I'm 49 years old and I'm a multi-millionaire. I don't have to do anything. So all I thought about when I was growing up is, man, I can't wait to one day get to the point where I no longer have to do this stuff. But what happens, I got older, it became a way of living. So how I do every day is how I do every day. It's a discipline, it's a regimen.

It was a choice I made. And the choice I made was, what are you willing to sacrifice and what are you willing to give up to find every bit of who you are as a human being? And I was willing to give everything to do that. So studying is no joke. I love that you're studying. I recall a few years ago, I heard somebody interview or podcasts with you, and you just threw out, like, I don't know what I'll do next. Maybe I'll be a scientist. And I went, yeah.

I was like, because I knew, because I know you a bit. And I see your work out there, but we admit before that if you decided that, you were going to do it. Right. And learning medicine, which is what you're doing, learning human physiology is so detailed. And people out there have to understand when you look at a textbook and you see the veins and the capillaries different colors. When the body's open, they're not different colors. Right. Right.

So, I mean, some things are at different color contrast, but it's not like it's all labeled when you pop it open. Exactly. And so the process of writing things down by hand is important for you. So you go back and read those notes. Do you think about that stuff on your runs too? Are you segmenting your day? Like when you're done studying, are you heading out for a run and thinking about other things? Or are you still rehearsing the material in your head?

So when I write it down, I write it down and I'm able to, I'm actually looking down at this table right now because I'm back to, right? So I'm actually there right now as I'm speaking to you. I write it down in a way that I'm memorizing page 69. So I'm writing it down, so then writing it down, and that page synced together in my brain. So I'm looking at the book in my brain right now. So, like, that's just how it works for me, and I have to do it over and over again. So that page is stuck in my mind. So I'm literally flipping through pages as I'm taking these tests,

and I'm taking these national tests to become a paramedic or become an advanced EMT or whatever. I'm literally, as I'm taking that test, I'm going through and I'm like, and I'm flipping pages in my head where that page was. And how I do that is just from, how I write it and how it's on the page.

When I run, I can't recall any of it. I cannot bring any of that because I'm running. How my mind is wired now is that everything I do is what I do. Because the focus it takes for me to, like right now, I'm running. I'm not like a great runner. I'm not like injury-free. So like my first 20 minutes of the run, I'm limping. I'm literally limping because I've had several knee surgeries and my body was twisted. And so now it's untwisting. So people look at him, oh, it looks like he's limp, you know, like limping when he runs.

I am limping when I run. My body's jacked up. So I'm focusing on how to get the best of a broken body. So everything I do is a total focus on what I'm doing at that point in my life. So it seems like you've really trained away or somehow gotten away from the ADD that you mentioned. Because what you described is a deep trench. It's like a V-shaped trench. I'm imagining like there's a ball bearing and it's like and it can only go forward in that trench. Right. Or back and it goes forward.

It's not like sliding around at the like concave at the bottle. Right. Like attention. So it's like you've trained that up. up, is there a similar feeling when you're in the full focus of running versus full focus of studying? Is it kind of feel like, oh, yeah, that's the same groove, but different thing? Or is it just completely different world? It's a completely different world.

Like, it's just, both of them for me is suffering, but it's suffering a whole different way. Like when I was going through school, I never forget, I think I was in third grade. And back then, you know, ADD, ADHD, well, like, you know, here's this medicine or here's this thing. They want to put you in a special school. So for me, I was so far behind and learning that their big thing was, let's just put him in a special school because he'll never learn. And through that process of like, I don't want to be in a special school.

I don't want to be treated any differently. It really, like, I never took medication. I've never taken medication for this. That's right now you see me looking right in your eyes. What the hell is, you know, it's human saying right now. And that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD, who have learned disabilities. And some are impossible because you just can't. But a lot of them you can.

And but people don't want to go through the process of focus, of teaching yourself how to truly focus. This is where my message gets lost. It gets lost because I may say, you know, MF or F. You know, I may be because that's the passion that comes out of me because that's, it takes everything for me to learn a sentence. So when I speak about David Gagons, I can't speak about David Gagons in a way that's just calm and cool. Because when I wake up, I know the journey that it takes for me to find my greatness.

And it's hard. Nothing is easy. Nothing just like, oh, I wake up and I just do this or I do that or it just, you know, I watch people every day go through life, and it's so easy. For me to be where I'm at today, it takes every bit of me. So when I speak about it, and as I get going here, you'll start seeing me, the temple will rise. The passion will come out because I'm back there. I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being.

And so nothing is easy. Like running is running. It sucks, but you have a choice to make. Do you want to sit down and go back to that guy you want? were. No. So this is what it takes. It takes that misunderstanding of people and they'll never get it because they've never David Gagans. So that is what it takes for me to do what I do. It may take you something differently. So for me, everything has to be into studying. Everything has to be into this. Everything has to be. And everywhere I am has to be there. Me, focus where I am.

That's why you're my second podcast I've done since Rogan since the book came out. I don't have time for that shit. Because if I want to be great, I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me. I do these things because maybe someone out there will understand me and get it and say, I can grow from this guy and others just won't. Sounds like friction is something you're very familiar with. I just, it's a word just as I feel like it's like cast above us right now and bold face highlighted underlying letters. It's just like friction is growth. Friction. Yes. Like you're up in the morning and I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee maker stretching out, good morning, sunshine.

And you're telling me from eyelids open, there's friction. Yes. And that is the thing that people don't, they don't fucking get. The biggest misunderstanding about David Gagas of all time, it's like whether you believe in God or not, I do. He put this lab rat, which is me, on this planet. And so let me fucking see with a beat up abused kid who had. who can barely learn, barely learn,

who has a twisted body, messed up genetics, sickle cell, this and that. Let me give him everything that pretty much disqualifies you from the military. But back then, it wasn't estrus. And let's put him in this and see what comes out of it. So to do that, friction, you don't wake up in the morning time

and go to the coffee maker. Matter of fact, sometimes he don't even sleep. What it requires is when I'm at 2 o'clock, It's two o'clock in the morning. And my brain is thinking about a fucking drug. And I got to get up and look in my book to see that drug is how I remember it. And this is every day of my fucking life.

That's why I'm not trained a fighter or I train some. I'm like, you have no fucking idea how great you really are. Because you are using such minimal, minimal of what you have. And if people can learn to focus, this is what's possible.

While it may not be pretty, like people would want to do a documentary on me, I go, no. I don't want to do a documentary on me because I will have normal, everyday people picking me apart. His life is miserable. Who wants to live like that?

He looks, it's crazy how he's, it's almost like he's sick, he's psychotic. The most frustrating thing in the world for me is when normal people judge a man like myself on what it really takes. to extract greatness from nothing. It takes every bit of who you are if you choose that route.

If you don't, Merry Christmas, do what you gotta do. But yeah, all these things for me, like I told you me, I'm gonna keep it real. I'm not coming here to talk about like, you know, perform without purpose. Because I go through, when I write these books, I go through and try to dumb down David Gagas. How can I give normal people, and I'm normal,

but I found something that most don't want to find. How can I speak to people and give them something from this crazy psychotic brain that I've developed? How can I give them that? So I sit down with Jennifer for years and write down, perform without purpose, callous your mind, armor your mind, the cookie jar, the accountability mirror.

shit that people can fucking use in their lives. No. No. I'm glad it helps you. But the barbaric life that I live, that you have to live, the almost obsession that you must have to be great, you can't put that shit in a fucking book, bro.

You can't put in a book. You can't. You can't write about it. It has to be experienced. It has to be experienced. And you can't even, after you experience it, to write it in the book, it would seem like

he needs to be locked up. Too gory. It's too gory. It doesn't make sense for a guy that everything, every second of the day he is trying to extract more from something. He's constantly thinking, he's constantly disciplined,

never going off the path. Whatever is injured on him, he figures away. It's a conqueror's mindset. And very, few people, if any, can really understand what that is. Like, I'm almost 50. And I've been this way for almost 30 years. Like, what you do for fun? You would never, like, these questions, I don't, get them. I don't understand them. I don't. So, yeah. I get asked that sometimes. What are you for fun?

I start listening off all the stuff like podcast and reading, right, working out. But so some of that resonates, but I think what's so truly unusual about what you're describing, your process, is that, you know, from go, it's hard. Yep. And I have to ask was being 300 pounds having a sense, I'm using the words you've described. Do it. You've said it before. You had a tendency at one point in your life early on, tell lies, try and get people's

approval. I buy my ass off. Crazy haircuts, attention seeking. And, and yet. all of that triggered something that now is extraordinary. Right. Do you think those hardships were necessary to flip the switch? I don't know if they were necessary,

but it was something that made me feel, I didn't feel good. It was easy. The brain that I was given as a child, it was easy to go home and think about what, How do I want to be a freak today? How do I want to show up to school today and be a freak? It didn't require me going home and open the book up saying,

it's going to take me all year to learn this fucking page. So instead of learning that page, I learned how to become a character. And maybe that character that I created, that 300-pound insecure guy that used to fake it-time-make-it type of guy, you know, let me become. become your friend, let me lie to you until you like me, type of guy, when you have any kind of, any manhood, womanhood, a human being, a soul, a spirit, any, I had no, I must have just

this much pride, because that's exactly what opened the door for me. Because every day you were a character, every day you were a clown, every day you open that Spanish book or that science book or English book, and you looked at it was like, it looked like, it looked like, a foreign language. And you're saying, where do I start? Who do I start? And obviously it was necessary. The more I talk about it, it was necessary.

Because what happened is I became haunted by the mere fact that this is my existence. And you've got to live with that. Now, live with it for a lot of years. And so I sat back and said, okay, all right, I know what this takes. And when you sit back as fucked up as I was, and I had a laundry list, a table like this of what I have to do to become just a human being that can make ends meet,

that can make $1,000 a month just to get there. It was like, oh, my God, dude. Like, how they... I'm 16, 17, I can't read, I can't write, and I, oh, my God, I'm so behind the power curve and my brain is about being depressed and my dad beat my mom's not home and kids are calling me nigger at school

and I'm like, oh my God, man, what the fuck do I do? And it wasn't like someone came around and said, hey man, you can do this. This is all me. Some people don't know where is this cold man come from? I'm not trying to be cold. It's the reality of my life. It's the reality of a lot of people's lives.

And so, yeah, that had to happen for me to be haunted, to be haunted to pull out, to extract the guy the end of the day. That haunting is something that's still there today. Because no matter how much you improve, no matter how much you change who you are, it's not permanent.

You'll just wake up and say, oh my God, man, you're David Gagans, you break records, you do this, you do that. People don't know, how are you able to just be so hard? hard because I never turned the fucking thing off. Because once it turns off, I go right back to the David Gagons that is.

And that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every day. And it's a choice. And that choice makes you misunderstood. It makes you crazy. That's why I hate fucking social media. In 2013, people wanted me to write my book. I did it in 2018. It took five years.

And the reason why I didn't do it, I set the table and Jennifer was there this before I actually started working for me I started dating or whatever and all these people were there and they're like man you got to go on social media and I was like fuck you man I'm not that's it's poison

it's poison because I knew what I did to get where I am and I'm going to have these people these normal everyday people fat lazy exactly who I was judging me because I know it, because I was once them.

All my hard work, all my dedication, I'm going to have so normal dude, get his little brownies, little ding-don, ho-ho, twinkie, sit there with this coffee picking me apart. Oh, he must be unhappy. He's just, do you know how hard it is to put these shoes on every damn morning and I'm going to have you pick me apart? So, yeah, there's so much that goes into this that I was like, fuck this.

I never wanted anything to do with it. So anyway. I'm not a psychologist, but knowing your story from what you've written, what you've said on social media and elsewhere podcasts and here now especially, it's amazing to me. And frankly, it pulls at my heartstrings a little bit.

I realize that's not what you're trying to do, but that in the course of your childhood and in your young adulthood, that no one ever got between, between you and the world. No. I forget where I heard it, that like if a kid has just one person

that believes in them. Right. You know, and I had my trials and tribulations, but I had great coaches, great mentors. Right. I attached to them.

I found them if they didn't necessarily find me. Right. But I'm realizing that your situation was no one's ever said, hey, I'm going to stand here next to you or get in front of you. Right.

Put a shield up. Uh-huh. And so it's almost like you've got these different version, It's all you, but there's versions of yourself that, like, you knew social media. Like, I don't know that I have the wherewithal in 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17 to get in front of myself while doing all this because I've already got so much going on in here. Right. Is that about right? That is right, but I had developed a lot of anger and I still have it.

It will never go away for the normal human beings of this world. Because when you put yourself in the sewer like I was in, and please, if someone, you're going to be in, and please, if someone, you're not, you know, to save me, come out and announce it to the world. There's no one. There's no one. So when you know that, and then I'm sitting at the table with all these smart people who are telling me what to do and shit and guiding me through my life now when I'm 40 fucking years old, I was, I don't know, 40-something years old. Now I'm 49. And I'm looking at them all. And they're now trying to guide me on which right, on this poison.

And so, yeah, what you say is right, but for me, it was more of, I know now. I don't need you to guide my future. I know what's good for me and what's bad for me. And for me, it took every bit of focus I could. And I know social media, that's why people love to go on there because they want to show you the good side of life.

I'm not teaching good side of life. So I had to figure out a way when I came on 2016 of teaching you what life really is for the majority of us as hell. And so while people love to show you the cars and the house and the vacations and shit, all that's good. All that's happy.

I'm going to show you the side that I know most you're going through. And people hide very well. I don't want to hide you. I hit it for 24 fucking years. That's why now when I told you, we can talk about whatever you want. Because as human beings,

the first thing we have to learn, I also studied real bad growing up. So if you hear me stuttered every now and then, it's because that was part of my life also. So it's funny, human beings want to show you the best side and they want to hide the worst side. For me, I'm going to teach you how to be vulnerable

because that's the only way you fix yourself. You don't fix yourself by coming out here and me selling you some fucking books. That's why I don't have them. I forgot them. I'm glad people got something from the book. I want you to learn that the only way you grow is how to look at yourself and say, okay, like I did. Table longer than this. What the fuck I have to do to get somewhere?

There was nothing good on there. Nothing. Yeah, I love playing basketball. I left that out. That's something I love to do. I don't care about that. That didn't make the fucking list. Because the list that I had to live by was the very list that was to get me at this table with you.

To talk to you to the normal human beings, which I once was, about how you can get somewhere and how it looks. It looks very ugly. There's no fucking passion. There's no fucking motivation. There's no, oh my God, man. I fucking... This is, no, it's every day of your life just doing. No passion.

No discipline, no motivation. All these words, I hate people, I hate, that's so many people fucking use these words now because it's watered. Someone's sitting in the room by themselves and they figure themselves out and say, God, this is going to fucking suck. Where's passion when you're 300 pounds? Where's the motivation when you can't read and write? Where is it?

So how did this happen? I just fucking did. I just did. I said, maybe at the end of this journey, there'll be something there for me. If not, I can read. If not, I'm 185 fucking pounds. There's no magic potion.

There's no, oh, let me wake up and look at some shit. No, all those words are overused. They're bullshit. It's all bullshit. Just do. You're living. How do you want to live? How do you want to die?

How do you want to fucking be remembered? That's it. That's it. Period. I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens now called AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that covers all of your foundational nutritional needs. I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.

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And it tastes great. If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to Athletic Greens.com slash Huberman, and they'll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to mix up athletic greens while you're on the road in the car, on the plane, etc. And they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that's athletic greens.com slash Huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year's supply of vitamin D3K2. The word haunted is ringing in my head. Yep. I think it's such a powerful word.

Yep. Because I was about to say, it seems like a huge part of your process, maybe the entire process is it's all stick, no carrot. You know, you talk about the carrot, the positive thing, and then there's the stick, the thing you're trying to avoid. Yep. I feel like it's, the way it's landing for me is it's all stick and gas pedal. Is it? There's no carrot. You're not imagining, oh, when I'm a paramedic.

when the book is published. And obviously you set those goals and you make those targets. Yep. But it's all stick. All stick. No carrot. Think about that.

I'm waking up right now studying, like I have a test tomorrow. I already pass the fucking test. Think about that. Every day in my life, that's what I must do just to retain what I learned. Four hours plus a day,

I go through and do that. There's no step. or there's only a stick. There's never been a carrot. Which is why when I speak to people, I have to figure out a way to resonate with them.

Because all I want to say to them is let me teach you the real life how it really is. The reason why you're a loser and the reason why you're not fucking making it and the reason why you're trying to go to all these I go to all these fucking conventions. Speak all the fucking time.

I look in the fucking audience and these people sign up, sign up, sign up, sign up, fucking every year to go to convention, thinking they're going to learn something fucking different. No, you're lazy, you know exactly what to do, exactly what to do,

because even me, in my state of, I can't read and write, I knew exactly what to do. It just sucks doing it. It sucks to do it. It sucks to wake up every morning of your life and say,

God, man, I'm not smart. So guess what I got to do? I got to study the same shit that I get one of the highest scores in the nation on. And do it again, do it again, do it again. It's not just there. It's not just there permanently for me. So, yeah, it's all stick. It's all stick.

The only care that you have is like, maybe, maybe. Because whenever I take these tests, they're real hard. In the back of my brain, it's like, the good chance you're not going to make it, Gagans. This ain't you, bro. This ain't you. You weren't born like this. This ain't you.

The real you, bro. Study all you want to. But the second that fucking computer comes on with 150 questions, this ain't you, man. And somehow, it comes back, I passed. I passed again. Passed again. but that ruled me back here every fucking time

is saying that ain't you bro that ain't you and I have to outwork that voice when I'm taking that test and I get to a question I don't fucking know the answer I'm like fuck man and then I said I told you man

that ain't you you're 300 pounds man you sit at home you figure out how to do your hair that's what you do how to come to school with the reverse baldness and you're 16, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's you. So, there is no get out of jail free card. This is why I say stay hard. Because when you weren't given the gifts,

the only thing you can do in life is stay hard. And I know people cannot stand me. They can't stand this talk. This is all you can do. There's no magic pill or a magic potion. all you can do is outwork the man that God created or woman in you. And what that looks like is unfun. That's why I said, do not do a documentary on me.

Because people will not see the truth. They will see what they want to see is, I don't want to live like that. Good. Good. And you will live exactly the way you live now, questioning who you are, wondering what is possible. wondering what you are capable of doing. That's how that looks. Or you can be me which, am I happy?

I don't know. Never even thought about it. You don't really care about it. Because all I really cared about was when I looked in that fucking mirror, I saw a piece of shit. Happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16. Around 300 pounds. It wasn't like, oh, my, I'm looking for happiness.

No, I'm looking to look at myself in the mirror and say, all right, motherfucker, you did it again today. You a bad boy. because that shit sucks. I have about a couple minutes of that when I got the carrot. The second lay down and go to bed, the carrot's gone

because I'm waking up all through the night to check the work I did that day. Did I get this drug right? Did I get this right? Did I get that right? What did I do? Oh my God, fuck. I'm ready losing it.

It's a stick. That stick is haunting you. It's following you around. Mm-hmm. So no picture. picture of Jordan on the wall. You're not listening to YouTube inspiration video. Those would be all your voice anyway. You're not listening to your top 10 favorite songs just to get rolling and then lace the shoes, hit the books. You're, it's all in here.

All in there. I used to do that when I was fat. Rocky, I mean, for you know, that, that was my thing. Round 14 was my thing. And as I got older and older and older, that started to go away. and I started to create I had all these people that I used to watch Rocky was one Barnes, Elias from Patoon Jack from a few good men he's on the stand going crazy

I saw a lot of these characters that I looked at and I was like man I ain't got none of that but they were characters after a while I lived in life so disciplined that everybody that I once looked to, these fake characters, I built that as a man.

And when I was younger, I had this image in my mind of what does a man look like to me? And I got all these people who were badass characters. And in my mind, I became that. And that's what kept me going a lot, was I had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Because when you have no parents raising you

and you have no role models growing up, it's not daydreaming. You start to create a reality like, hmm, maybe I can be that. And after becoming this guy, that is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is I became that guy. That I once looked at all these guys

and now look at myself like, God, who the fuck can do that? I can't. But what it takes is a discipline that no one can ever even, they don't understand it. They don't understand, but everybody has the ability to do it, but they just don't want to. They want to keep asking questions and keep going to seminars.

And the greatness is right in you. And that's why, once again, I'll say it's a million times here, I do not feel sorry for you. I will not sugarcoat what I'm going to say to you, because all of you know what I'm saying is the truth. Everybody knows it the truth. This is what it looks like. And you know it too.

You know what too. If you ain't got nothing, I hate to tell you what it looks like is ugly. It's not a documentary. It's not an HBO special. You ain't go watch them, hey, man, you guys got watch this. No, it's like, oh, God, this looks like a train wreck. It's like a nightmare. It looks like this guy got, no, that's what it looks like.

Hard work looks horrible. It's not motivating. It's not motivating at all. It ain't like Rocky Round 14 He gets knocked down He goes that this to Apollo Creed It looks like a man Being stuck in a fucking dungeon

And there's no fucking way out But you had the fucking key But you refuse to use it And that's nothing motivating about that So yes No documentary on David Gagans The real life David Gagins is the documentary

It's already being written You're it Right yeah I'm going to share a little neuroscience tidbit, but I think it's one that you'll appreciate. Most people don't know this, but there's a brain structure called the anterior mid-singulate cortex. As we pointed out before, that's a noun, it's a name, it doesn't mean anything. We could call it the cookie monster. But what's interesting about this brain area is there are now a lot of data in humans,

not some mouse study, showing that when people do something they don't want to do, like add three hours of exercise per day or per week, or when people who are trying to die and lose weight, resist eating something. When people do anything that they, and this is the important part, that they don't want to do. It's not about adding more work. It's about adding more work that you don't want to do.

This brain area gets bigger. Now here's what's especially interesting about this brain area to me. And by the way, I'm only learning this recently because it's new data, but there's a lot of it. The anterior mid-singulate cortex is smaller and obese people. It gets bigger when they diet. It's larger in athletes.

It's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge. And in people that live a very long time, this area keeps its size. In many ways, scientists are starting to think of the anterior mid-singulate cortex, not just as one of the seats of willpower,

but perhaps actually the seat of the will to live. Now we're talking. And when I learned about the anterior mid-singulate cortex, I was like almost out of my seat. And I've been in the neuroscience game since I was 20. We're the same age. And I was so pumped, because I've heard of the amygdala fear,

prefrontal cortex, it's planning and action. I could tell you every brain area and every, I teach neuroanatomy to magical students. But when I started seeing the data on the anterior mid-singulate cortex, I was like, whoa, this is interesting. And all the data point to the fact that we can build this area up, but that as quickly as we build it up, if we don't continue to invest in things that are hard for us,

that we don't want to do, That's the part that feels so Goggin-esque to me that we don't want to do. Like if you love the ice bath, yeah, I love the ice bath. And you go from one minute to 10 minutes. Guess what? Your anterior mid-singulate cortex did not grow. But if you hate the cold water, if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water and put your head under, then your anterior mids and survive, then the anterior mid-singulate cortex gets bigger.

But if you don't do it the next day, or if you do it the next day and you would enjoy it because hey hey I did it yesterday woohoo happy me Merry Christmas is right Merry Christmas guess what the anterior midsinglet cortex shrinks again yep to me this is one of the most important discoveries that neuroscience has ever made because it's that I don't want to do something but do it anyway that grows this area and it's almost like I have a friend he's been sober 30 years from alcohol and he always says you know the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure the is, it only works one day at a time.

Yep. And so you have to renew it every day. That's right. So the answer mid-singulate cortex to me, when I learned about it, two things went off in my head. Whoa, this is super interesting. And two, I got to tell David Goggins about this. And I waited until now to tell you because I felt like, well, for obvious reasons,

I wanted to tell you here. Well, I love that because that's how I've lived my entire life. I don't know anything about that. But people go, man, you have such a strong will. it's something that you build. Like, I never forgot I was on a podcast one time, and this dude goes, you were blessed with a strong mind.

Like, the hell are you talking about it's blessed with the strong mind? That's something that you have to develop. You develop that. Over years, decades of suffering and going back into the suffer. That's why a lot of people who graduate in Navy SEAL training,

they want to know like in my I talk about very openly all the time a lot of guys don't go don't want to go back

into that water don't want to go back into the hard stuff maybe not anything hard anything hard in life once you get through it it's like you become a P.O.W. Like how many P.O.Ws

you know want to go back to P.O.W. Camp none. When something sucks so bad in life this is on this that we're talking about now, very few people want to go back. They're happy they graduated. I realized I'm the same way.

I don't want to go back. I have to go back. I must go back. Because that is exactly where all the knowledge of my life exists was back there in which you exactly were talking about. Well, I didn't know anything about this.

But how I grew a will was constantly doing these things to now it's just life. I wake up while it still sucks, it's just life. You don't sit back and like, oh my God, like I have days I don't want to do it, but I know I'm going to do it. I know from years of just doing it.

So that's beautiful. And this is why I came on here with you today. And I'm glad you're talking about this because human beings need to hear this. Then he stop hearing. these hacks on this and that. There's no fucking hack, bro. There's no fucking hack.

Yeah, you made this and that and saunas and all this shit that. Yeah, it's great. There is no fucking life hack. To grow that thing, how do you grow it? Do it and do it and do it and do it. That's the hack. The hack is going to fucking suck. And that's what I realized.

That's what I realized. Life, that's why I wanted to come on here today. I didn't even come on here and talk about no fucking passion and purpose and how to get the fuck out of bed and how to hit a fucking alarm clock and all this catchphrase bullshit. Because that wasn't how I lived. I lived, I woke up, like every human being does and goes, fuck, man, I'm a fucking piece of shit today.

How the hell is this going to work out for me? And you fight that. And you fight that. You don't override it. There's no override butt. it's the conversation in your fucking in your head. So how do you do that? We don't have enough of these conversations

about the real conversation that every human being is having and they have no idea how to get out of it, but they do. It's that shit right there, man. Yeah, build your will. How do you build your will? Exactly what you said, man.

Exactly what you said. Well, I feel like knowing the name of something, anterior mid-singulate cortex doesn't fundamentally change us, But one thing I like about biology is that willpower, if somebody feels they don't have it, feels like this thing that other people have. But everybody, unless they're brain damaged, like a hole through their head, has two anterior mid-singulate cortex, one on each side of their brain.

Everyone has one. They have two. So I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal. And the portal, what I, again, I'm going to say 10 times. and forgive me is I think people go, oh, I do hard things. I do sets to failure and then I do four streps. I love training with weights. I love doing sets to failure. I even like four streps. But guess what? I like four streps. So I'll tell you, they don't build my anterior mid-singulate cortex. Right. Because I like to do it. Anything you like to do is not going to enhance this aspect of willpower.

And it seems so obvious once you hear it, you kind of go, oh yeah, of course. But I think you really close that loop for people when you share what you're sharing today and what you've shared elsewhere before as well when you're trying to explain the friction is the critical ingredient right and i think people think oh if it's effort well then i'm getting better that's part of it necessary but not sufficient as we say in science but the suck part the haunt being haunted the stick they're really unpleasant terms very these are probably the most pleasant terms we've ever used on this podcast. Those are the levers.

Those are the gears. And without those, this thing that you're talking about, David Goggins as a verb. Right. You know, I sometimes make the joke, but it's not a joke. Right. Gagins is a name. And it's a verb. People go, I'm going to Gagins that.

Right. Right. But that's, I think, again, I'm not a psychologist, but I think that's what you're talking about. The stick, the friction, being hard. haunted. It's the suck part that grows this anterior mid-singulate cortex. So now you know why there's so many people that have failed in this world to figure out their purpose, their purpose in life. Where do I go? Because to grow that, while you may not look like me, how my daily life looks, it don't look fun. Don't look fun. Don't look fun.

So it's a choice that people have to make in life But what's so funny about it is even the richest of rich Who have everything they always ask me this question I feel like I'm missing something I don't feel like I'm missing shit I don't have what you all have But you're never in my life hear me tell you I'm missing something everybody is

They're missing this feeling. I found it a long time ago. I found it right there in that willpower thing. When you're nothing, nothing and change yourself into something like me. You call it happiness, peace, wherever the fuck you want to call it, people are missing exactly what went on with David Gagans. Why don't you smile? I do. I do. But I figure something that That's why I am never, you'll never hear me say, I'm missing something. I found it years ago. You find it in the suck.

You find it in the suck and you find it repeatedly in the suck to the point where you know exactly who you are. Most people are missing something because they don't know who they are. They never examine themselves. They've never done this experiment on themselves. The lab rat, we're all lab rats. but you're also the scientist. You create your own self. Most people are missing something because there's so much trapped in there.

I don't even want to say potential. I think that's word used out too much too. There's so much in you that God or wherever the hell you believe in, or if you're an atheist, in you, that you have not unlocked, that you walk around with this gorgeous wife or great husband and all this money. You're like, God, I feel like I'm missing something. Yeah, because it's about 75% of you is still fucking in there.

Still chained up because you just didn't want to find your willpower. Didn't want to find your soul, your will, your heart, your determination, your guts, your courage. And what that looks like, it looks scary. Like your little scary lab I went in. Scary. To wake up every day and say, I'm stupid, but I want to figure out a way to be smarter. Versus saying, man, I just can't do that. So you limit this box.

So your box becomes so small of things you can do. My box wasn't even a box. It was a fucking little, like, little pinhole. And then through examining myself, getting some willpower, some courage, it became bigger than this table. But that's what we all do. That's why I wanted to come here today

and talk to you about real shit. Not no fucking, like, hacks. There's no hacks, bro. It's you against you. You against you. And if you misunderstand that, you have a real problem. Real problem. I can understand you misunderstand me.

Running on the street, shirt off. Fuck this. No, yeah. I can get it. I get it. If you misunderstand what I'm saying right now today, the problem is you and you don't want to fix it. Well, the children of wealthy people are a case study in how not having enough friction can destroy a life.

True statement. I mean. I could list off prominent names in the press, but those are actually the least interesting. What's probably more interesting as an example is all the ones we don't hear about because we never hear about them. They just dwindle and wither. Or I think there's this big category of people I'm realizing, as we have this conversation today, that they're not super successful. They're not struggling. They're like successful enough that they never have to.

you can get to the point where you don't have to impose friction. You even said it. Your bank account is in a place where you don't really need to do all the things you do, probably not even a small fraction of them. Do nothing. Right. But you realize the stick and being haunted is the fuel and the engine. Right.

And you'd be truly crazy to give that up because you've internalized all that. Right. But most people, they're good enough for them. Yep. And so they don't actually want to be better badly enough in order to start going wrong after wrong. Well, think about when you build willpower and think about how much I've built, now that you know about this, I didn't know about this, but think about how much I've built. Everything I've ever done in my life I didn't want to do. Everything, every day.

I'm a lazy piece of shit. and I'm one of the hardest working people that ever step foot on the planet Earth. And I'm saying that very proudly because I know what I do. It's not cocky. I'll tell you I'm stupid. And I also tell you the exact opposite

of what I've done. It's the truth. It is the truth. So imagine how much I've developed in that time frame. But it's the scary thing. Why most people don't want to do that build that willpower is because it's scary.

it unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are and who you're not. And a lot of people don't want to go down that journey to discover who they are and who they're not. Because it's not a pretty journey. I mean, I've gone down it. It's not like I went down at once. I go down it all the time. And when you unlock that, and you can't just turn it off. Like people say, hey, how come you haven't retired yet?

I've built all this willpower. Do you think it's going to live? let me just retire because my knees hurt. It's telling me every morning I wake up like, man, my knees hurt, my legs hurt, my body hurts, but you can still run. So why aren't you running? If you can still run, there'll be a time when you can't lace them up anymore, but you can still run.

So I still run. When the time comes I can't run, the body will say you just can't run. But if I can still do something that willpower that I have created, it makes me do it every fucking day. And that's what they don't get. What builds a human being is you start with the small building blocks. And before you know it, man, you become something that you, it doesn't even make sense to most people because it's just who you are now.

That's why I can still run at 50 with 40, at 49, with broke down knees and broke down body. Because my body knows you still can. Therefore, I do. Second, you stop, the willpower is gone. And that's beautiful. I'm so glad you brought that to me because I always wonder, what's this separation thing now? At 24 years old, I started building something that I didn't even know was going to be what it is now at 49. And that's all it was, was just that.

This structure, anterior mid-singulate cortex has inputs and outputs from a bunch of places, but you'll probably not be surprised to learn that it's strongly activated when we move our body when we don't want to move our body. I feel like it's like the David Goggins structure, right? It really is. And it also has strong connections to the dopamine reward pathway. And everyone goes, yay, dopamine reward. Everyone loves dopamine.

I'm partially responsible for people knowing a bit more about dopamine. But dopamine is badly understood. Everyone thinks dopamine, dopamine hits. It's about reward. It's about motivation and drive. And there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain. No one talks about that. Everyone's like, oh, you want the chocolate, you know, chocolate, sex, cocaine.

Yeah, that's all true. Right. You release dopamine. Pain releases dopamine. The anterior mid-singulate cortex can trigger the release of dopamine in response to this thing that we're calling friction. And that's a learned thing. that's something that no animal or human being comes into the world learning we all are

averse to pain and like pleasure like sugar fat don't like hot surfaces right but this is a structure that learns it has neuroplasticity the ability to change throughout the entire lifespan and here's the part that i think again this is just neuro nerd speak for what you already know and have done and exemplify is that it people say oh it has plasticity you can change it but guess what has plastic plastic in both directions it can grow but just as easily as it can grow it's like silly putty it can shrink right so it requires constant upkeep right and that answer isn't one that people are going to like nope they're like give me the energy drink give me the supplement give me the yeah give me the sauna protocol that's going to make my anterior mid-singulate cortex someone out there right

now is going, wait, if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation and I stimulate, yeah, you'd probably, actually, they've done that. They've stuck a little wire during neurosurgery into this structure. This is actually discovered by a colleague of mine, Joe Parvizzi, stimulate, and the patients go, I feel like there's a storm coming and they go, oh, is it scary? And they go, no, I want to go through it. They come off the stimulation and people are like, this is the seat of what we're talking about. Right, exactly.

And it learns. So the fact that you've kept this brain structure, I'm convinced if we image your brain, it'd be large and it would be larger in two years and a year. But this is the no days off rationale, because it can grow and it can shrink. I know. What you're saying right now,

I didn't know any of this. And I never, and I always talk to you, but I wish I could just put this on paper. And you're saying it in a way that people can understand. I can never put in the words on what I built and the power that is within all of us. But you put it so, like, in a scientific way.

Most people, for me, he's just crazy. That's why I don't like talking about it, man. I know I'm not crazy. I know what I had to do to get where I had to go. People look at it as crazy because there are people that just, if you can't imagine yourself doing something, if you can't imagine yourself doing something, the person that's doing it is crazy.

Because in your mind, the logic behind it, it doesn't compute. Therefore, you have to give somebody a title. And the title for me is usually he's crazy, he's this, he's that. No, no. For some reason, me wanting to be somebody so fucking bad in my life, I created that. And I've been trying to figure out years, of my life trying to explain to people.

But even though you're explaining it now, this is the easy fucking part. Them listening to this shit is the easy fucking part. The part that, why there will always be the ones of ones is because putting that practice, putting that into actual work, no, man. No, no, no. That's where the demons come in.

that's where you're like, I don't want to be better. I don't want to be better. This is what it takes to be better. I don't want to be better. So everybody's, that's why there's a lot of average. And it makes me so fucking mad.

Every day I walk this earth and I see average all over the fucking place. And they want to ask me, how did you do it? I can't tell you how. Because you're not going to fucking, you're not going to do it.

You're not going to do it. You're going to continue being out because every day you wake up, Like he says, it's not like, get the coffee, make the pancakes, kiss the girl, kiss the kids. You wake up, right to work. Immediately your mind is in action. No one must do that. No one.

And I don't blame them. But don't be mad. When you're laying there in your fucking bed and you're in the fucking hospital and you're 70, 80, 90 years old, and you're thinking, man, I feel like I didn't fucking do something. Because you did. You didn't do it. You didn't do shit. You may live the great life, man, but you're always going to feel empty inside.

I don't feel empty. So call me what you want. There's not one empty bone in my fucking body. Because I have figured out that really the magic potion, at least to my life, and it's very rewarding. People like to talk about what they used to be able to do. I hear this a lot. You should have seen me in high school. I always laughed.

Yep. Like, yeah, okay, got it. And it's not just guys, you should see me working out in high school. I was super fit. People will look back to a time where they felt like they were capable of something and now they're not. And you kind of want to just grab them, you know, wait, that was you then, it's you now. But people tend to think about how the conditions that were around success must have been part of it.

And you can understand why. It's like, it's very rational. I was in that situation, I was successful. I'm in this situation, I'm not. That was the past. This is the present, ergo, capable, right? You see how people get into these loops. And as you mentioned, you spent the first 20 years of your life

in an extremely challenged circumstances. And then you can see how people get to a point where, like, everything feels hard. Like when you're 300 pounds, I haven't never been 300 pounds, but I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move around. It's defeating. I got a friend he's in excess of 300 pounds. We've been trying on him for years, but no win.

And he's got crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves. And he actually smells bad sometimes because he can't wash as well as he would. He's big, big. Right. And it pulls all my sympathy. Right. You know, but life is very hard for him and getting worse. He's a young guy with a lot of medical issues now for obvious reasons.

And so I think people like that think, well, it's already. hard. Why would I make it harder? Your message is a little different and you have the life experience. It's a lot different. You've been there. So for me, saying, oh yeah, lose weight, you know, I was a skinny guy who got to be a less skinny guy. So I don't really have a foot to stand on. What do you say to those people who are like, listen, I'm getting up in the morning is hard. Trying to not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears, my own misery is hard. Do you know why people connect with my book so well? For some reason, God put me in almost every fucked-up situation on the planet Earth.

So when I talk to people, it's not sugar-coated because I'm not saying it from, I'm always a hundred and sending five pounds my whole life. I don't say much of those people. Maybe you're a piece of shit. Maybe you're, you want to be nobody. maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life because obviously you are maybe you don't have the determination to be somebody better than who you are and if you want to live with that I'll support you in that

if you're good with being who you are that every day you wake up and every day you smell like shit because you can't wash your body well and your skin's messed up because your health so bad and you can't put your clothes on right you need help with that you help like when I was doing I need help wiping my ass that makes you feel good nothing I can say to you if every day you wake up with this see people are haunted

but they obviously like horror films because they keep watching the same fucking movie I don't like horror films a lot of people like horror films so I don't say much to them I say exactly what I said to you right there because I was once you I didn't like horror films so I changed it

Some people are just, they become, like you said, it gets real small when you're lazy and you're fat, your will. Their will is so small that they don't have any and you can't give it to them. There has to be something. This is what I'm talking about now because this isn't a hack. This has to be in you. Something in you has to wake up. And usually the only person that can wake it up is you. Sometimes you can read a David Gaghan's book because I was all this shit and then a lot more of fucked up.

But if you don't have a little flame, you know, just that, just barely you're done. I can't, I can't light it for you. And that's the harsh reality of this life that I want to get across so fucking bad. You can watch me, you can watch you, you can watch fucking Rogan and Cameron Haynes, all these motherfuckers. You can go to Tony Robbins and fucking bullshit, all this shit. You do all this shit. If you, you could keep going back and keep spending money and spending money and spending money with no results. You can wonder, wow, maybe let me go try out David Goggins.

He ain't going to fucking help you. You have to explore, examine the insides of yourself. And what do you really want out of life? Your friend, a lot of people out here just don't fucking want it. it. So guess what? Have fun with your life. Go from three to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500 because you don't want it. And that's the harsh reality. I can't give you shit. You can't give them shit. You can give you ideas. But in the day, when I was losing the weight, I had to miserably wake up every morning in the cold because it was Indiana, November, it started. I was miserable. This is your new life. Take it or leave it. There's no

happiness about it. There's no peace behind it. It sucks. It just fucking sucks. And that's the one thing if I could teach anybody, anything. It just fucking sucks. And it's going to continue to suck. And then one day you get to a special part in your life, that it might get a bit better. But to lose the weight, you have to lose, my friend. Sorry, it's going to suck every fucking day. Because then when you're 300 pounds, you're going to go out to lose weight. You can probably get injured. So then you got to work on the injury. And then you get even more depressed. This is what I went through. And then you're hungry because now you're depressed. It's just a vicious cycle. And if you're not strong mentally and you have no willpower, you're going to continue

you falling back in this whole versus the man that sits back and goes, all right, motherfucker. This is why I cussed. This is what is in me. This is what it took for me to be me. Sorry. It didn't take, hey, okay, we're going to do this today. No, this fucking really sucks. This is real, dude.

This is real. And every day, I'm set back. I'm set back. I'm set back. I'm set back. So this is what I would tell your boy. This is exactly what I tell him. every day you wake up you're going to probably be set back for the first four weeks before you lose to significant weight because of the mind is going to be fucking with you the whole time there's no dopamine there's no dopamine in there at 300 pounds you got nothing your hormones are shot you have to envision something that is more powerful than you something has to get you out of bed and you have to create it it has to be false because you're not it

you're a fat piece of shit. And that's the reality of it. So you have to create a false reality to live in that just to get to work on yourself. That's the reality. He'll see this and he'll appreciate that message. We'll see what he does. So far, last 13 years, it's been no movement.

But I've had other friends who were drug and alcohol addicts who quit after one conversation. never went back. That's awesome. That means they want it. Yeah, just one one guy I won't out him but walked up to me at a party in 2019 July 4th party and said, uh, I'm a pile. And I go, what? And he goes, I'm a pile. Look at me. I'm 60 pounds overweight. I go, do you drink? He goes, every day. I go how much? He goes, a case. He goes, I smoke a lot of weed. But he's successful in other areas of his life. And so I said, well, here's what I know. Quit alcohol and weed for you. You know, I'm not telling people what to do.

don't eat until 2 p.m. Get on an exercise bike and pedal in the morning like someone's chasing you with a poison dart until you want to puke. And I was kind of half joking. Right. And then two months later, he was like, I haven't had a drink, I lost 30 pounds.

He lost that 60 pounds. He never went back. Now he's super fit. It's amazing. So some people flip the switch. He is very self-critical by nature. That's what. He's super self-critical.

Yep. That's what flips the switch. Yeah. Think about it, man. We know what to do. We don't need Angie Schuberman to tell us what to do. We know what to do.

Every one of us. That's why he flipped it so fast. Because he knew what to do. He didn't go by your exact protocol. He didn't go by the exact... No, he knew exactly what to do. And you just... saying some shit to him, it woke something up, but he knew what to do. And that's the thing that

people need to get that. You know what to do. Why aren't you doing it? And I'm talking about myself now, you know, those modes of just kind of passive consumption, they're so easy to wash over us. I used to have this thing and I'm fighting this now because I knew we were going to have this conversation today where I like to start things on the hour or the half hour. Right. Worst practice in the world for me. Because if If I miss that half hour, I'm like, it's 1233. I'll start at 1245. Right.

Ah, it's 1245. I'll start at one. I just lost time. Right. And then, and so this is so stupid, right? And the other day I was like, man, I got to tell David about this. Because my new thing is, I start no matter what time it is. Right.

If I wake up in the middle of the night, I got a friend he paints in the middle of the night. I'm like, you're an insomniac. He's like, I don't know, I just do it. Then sometimes he goes back to sleep. Sometimes he doesn't. Everyone's got their thing, but I thought about this. I'm like, no more am I going to say I'm starting at one because I know me. If I miss the one o'clock, ding, and then my pen's not hitting the paper,

or not typing on the keyboard, I'm not going to do it. That's a self-admitted weakness. I love it, man. I had that for a lot of years. I know I'm going to do it. That's the haunting part, is that it's going to happen. It has to happen. And that's the fact.

Like, there's no get-out-jof-free car, bro. None. Like, that is a life that I don't know. I don't have that ability. Or I have the ability. I don't have the, I'm not good enough, smart enough. I'm not talented enough to do that.

Some people are. Some people can start at one. somebody they don't have to start at all. If you lack talent, you can't sit back and say, I'll start in half an hour. I can't do that. I got to start now.

And after I get back from starting, I got to start again. And then when I get done with that run or that study session, if it wasn't good enough, I got to go back again. Because repetition is what taught me everything. So you can honestly outwork anything.

But it's that you're, You obviously are a very talented man. Well, I have worked hard at certain things and built up some things that I've been good at most of my life. You're amazing. Gathering, organizing, and disseminating information, something I've been doing since I was a little kid. I used to give lectures at school on Monday about stuff I learned over the weekend. See, check that out. But they took me to a psychiatrist.

We're the same age. Back then, if you got sent to a psychiatrist, people thought you were crazy. I wasn't one. Yeah, exactly. I was one. Exactly. So I remember feeling like a freak. I also, I didn't have a stutter, but I had a grunting tick.

It comes back when I'm tired. And the only thing that helped that was hitting my head on something, shaking my head, which is why skateboarding was good, because I'd slam and I'd feel like, oh, feel good. That's not healthy. You know, that's not good. Or just work is what gets it out. It's like an, it's like an, it's like an RPM or high, you know.

Anyway, that's me. But yeah, I think certain things over time, I feel like talent or gifts or whatever you want to call them, but there are many things that are exceedingly difficult for me. And I have learned from your example. I know that you are very both humble and very clear that like you don't have, you say, I don't, you're not going to get it by examining you. But I think the way you're sharing today and the way you shared on other podcasts before, there are pieces that really help people feel into the process of what you're talking about. Today, we're elaborating on it, I think, a lot. You know, this notion of being haunted and the stick.

Right. I mean, of course, of course, now it makes so much sense why you don't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery. Because that's not sure, that's important. I've heard you say, yes, you sleep. Yes, you eat. Yes, you hydrate. Yes, you will stretch your soaz or whatever.

But it's funny how that becomes the viral message. That's why I said fuck that today. But that's not the unique, that's not the unique message that you carry. Like, anyone can talk about that. So do I have that right that you're acknowledging? sleep is important, recovery is important, but that's not what you're about. You have to forego something.

Yes. Ice baths, saunas, sleep, nutrition, all this shit is so fucking important, dude. I don't have time for some of it. To get to extract or I had to extract something had to give. Like you talk about you when you were younger, you would give these speeches and stuff.

The same age you were giving speeches, I was trying to figure out how to say, the without stuttering and I realized as I got older that all these things are important but for me to stop stuttering I get a build a fucking confidence and speech therapy didn't help that nothing helped that I have to forego a lot of shit to be as fucked up as I am to build confidence for me to stand in the fucking room of 10,000 of one person and not be like oh put my head down let me look around Let me read these paragraphs first, and then before I read the paragraphs, because they call me next,

let me just leave the room kind of with stutter. That's a miserable life. And that's one of many things I did, besides lying, besides being insecure, besides being immature, besides being fat, besides being one of the only black kids in my schools, a lot of things I had to overcome to get confidence. and in doing so a lot of that had to go a lot of it so I became the guy

that became once again misunderstood you only sleep four hours a day two hours a day sometimes you don't sleep at all like what's this and what's this and what's this I know it's all important I can't something's got to go

for me to get confidence because confidence is the building block of where I'm trying to go for me to gain confidence in myself this fucked up kid has got to do a lot of fucked up shit to gain confidence and along the way

the stutter went away and I gained confidence and now my life is a little bit more there's no balance there's no balance it's a little bit more what it should be for a lot of people but there'll never be balanced because confidence is something that you're constantly

confidence and belief you're building every day and so something's got to give and I'm willing to forego a lot of things to have that because I know that is that is if you want to give somebody kryptonite take that shit away from so yeah I don't sleep sometimes and sometimes I don't eat the right way sometimes I don't do this and do that and whatever man but you put me in room of 10,000 people any time of the day and I walk in there thinking I'm with bass motherfucker in here because I know

what it took to be on this stage and a lot of people will not do that so that's what it takes there's a question I've been wanting to ask you since we started and I thought about coming in here and I was thinking about in the weeks ahead of this and I'm going to just come clean and say I don't exactly know how to ask the question. So it's about relationships. Oh, do it, man. So I know in myself that my discipline is much higher when it's just me. But that's because I had certain things early on, but then I was a terrible,

student barely finish high school. But then when I got serious, I got serious by did that by staying away from everybody. And anyone who's ever had a relationship of any kind, but in particular, romantic relationships, knows that, yes, you can derive tremendous support from those. Like, you got this, baby, you can go and you're like, yeah, I got this. She said, I got this. It feels great to finish something and share with someone. Share a meal, you know, get the hug. But there's another side to all of that. Right. That I'd like to learn. more about from you, which is there's a warm body next to you in bed in the morning. You don't want to get up.

They also have needs. You've got your mission that people sometimes need things from us, but also oftentimes the people that love us most that truly love us and that want to support us don't understand this thing. And they're the first people to tell us like, listen, take a day all. And then this whole cycle, at least in my head, goes off, like, you just want a vacation. And then it's almost like a paranoia. I'm not saying anything nice about myself right now.

Right. Oh, good, man. Former girlfriends are going to be like, yeah. Like, you know, they remember. And so support of people close to you is critical. This could be friends, could be romantic partners, whatever. But they're also the knife cuts both ways. It can be the thing that can really undermine this thing that you're talking about.

Because the people that care about us also want to see us comfortable. Right. They want to see us happy. They want to see us peaceful. They want to see us wake up from a great night's sleep. And they want things too. Right. So how do you untangle that whole bit?

Well, it's funny, man. I'm unbalanced, but I'm mostly unbalanced towards the family side. People don't get about me. I start being unbalanced. I get all my stuff in. But what I do is I make sure that my family has everything they need. Everything they need. Those who want to be part of my family.

Some don't. Some family members don't want to be part of. David Gockens. I get it. I got it. That's life. Those who are part of my family, I give them everything they need so they can leave me the fuck alone. I make sure you're happy as fuck because I got to go to work. And I don't mean smoke jumping. I don't mean running. I mean all of it. It takes every, I can't have you in my fucking shit. Can't. So I know for me to have a family, I got to make sure. sure that you realize I'm going to give you everything you need so we start bitching at me.

I'm going to say, look, hang on. I dedicated my life to give you everything you need. I need this time right here for me to be the best I can be because this journey started without anybody. And I make sure everybody knows that. It comes in my life. I've been left, think about it, I was left alone at a young age to figure the shit out. I figured it out for myself.

and it's been very successful for myself. No one's going to come in here and fuck with my shit. That's why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need. Whatever you need for me, you got it. Money, house, my love, my support. I'm going to give you everything you need. That said, I do it the highest level possible. I'm saying it with Jennifer in the next room.

So please come in and say something if it's wrong. Jennifer, I don't give a fuck. Say what you got to say. So then when it's time for me to go to work, I expect you to do the same for me because it takes every bit of me to do what I have to do. So I make sure that I'm very unbalanced

for my family so I can be exactly that unbalanced for myself. And that's how I do it. I let people know right up front I'm not what you want in a man. I guarantee that. There's going to be a lot of late nights

a lot of early mornings, a lot of times where I get to be by myself thinking about the process that is next in my mind. I can't have aggravation, can have this, can have that. There's a lot of things, but I let them know up front.

I'm very vocal about that. Sometimes relationships work for me, sometimes they didn't. But that's who I am. One thing I did wrong in my life was I tried for so many years to please people. And I did it at the expense of myself.

I was leaving a lot in the tank. And when you do that, you stop living. But the person in your life is happy as fuck. Because you give them everything they want. They have, their life is full, but you feel empty. And that's not a relationship to me. So for me, it's important that you know exactly who I am because this is what life made.

And I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out. So I'm not trying to compromise David Gagans. I will never, ever compromise David Gagans. That doesn't mean I won't give you what you need and what you want and what you desire. But I don't need money. I don't need fame. I don't need shit. So I give it all the way.

What I do need is to make sure that that willpower is worked on every fucking day and every night for the rest of my life. Because that's the one thing that's going to keep me. feeding you, keeping you where you need to be, because once that willpower is gone, 300 pound David Gagons, he may not look like it, but I will walk around with it. So the things that are important to you in life,

you must do always, or you're nobody. And that's how I have had relationships. Amen to that. Something I could personally work on is that upfront clear communication. Because it resonates that feeling of, Like there's something inside that's not getting worked out that I was when I'm on my own it's it's a lot easier.

But then of course, wanting relationships and family. I think that's a healthy part of being human too. Obviously you've worked it out. So I appreciate you sharing that. I don't think I've ever heard you talk about it that way before. People are scared of that, man. People are scared of that conversation with their wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, but why are you scared of it?

Why are you scared to tell a motherfucker, your wife, your husband, who you want to be? who you are, exactly who you are. And that was a problem I had, that's a problem that a lot of us have in life. No one knows who you really are. No one knew who I really was. I went to a school where there were a lot of black kids. A lot of black kids didn't want to be in special ops. I never talked about special ops with black kids.

Why? I was wondering what, I'm not going to fit in. That's not what they do. A lot of black kids don't do that kind of shit. So whatever I wanted to do, no one really knew the real me growing up because I never wanted anybody to know the real me. I was always afraid of what you might say or how you're going to feel or whatever. You got feelings. You have a life that you have to live.

So it's important that whatever's on your mind, you let that person know, therefore you're giving them the option to be with you or not. This is who I am. If you don't like it, that's good, man. I got it. But this is David Gagons. So that honest conversation is very important, man. So everybody knows where they stand.

That person may not be for you. And that's all good. This world could use a lot more of that upfront, completely honest conversation. I feel like so much of the world's problems are because everyone's dancing around the issues. Takes a lot. Recently in the news, seeing people losing their job

because they won't say something publicly. You can tell they kind of want. And it's like people just, I think deep down really crave the direct message like, what are you about? What are you not about? But I think now everyone's afraid of getting canceled. It's a big deal, right? You know, getting canceled that people think, oh, I can't work if I am who I am or if I'm not pretending to be somebody else, then, you know, silence is considered, you know, agreement. You know, there's all sorts of complicated stuff. And I do feel for the generation coming up, because we didn't have social media. Right. And all of that.

that getting just walled off from that, there's a real benefit from just not paying attention. People love to lie. People love to lie. You know, I thought I was only a person, like when I was growing up, I thought I was the only person that lied because I live in the bubble.

And people love to lie about who they're not. They love to lie about who they're not, dude. And that's, for me, the reason why I'm so vulnerable and I'm so real and honest, find somebody come out, tell me I'm lying about my fucking life. and for me to come where I came from and have the resume I have now,

you know the confidence you get, how I don't care who, you're going to judge me? You're going to judge me? What have you done in your life? So me being so honest and so upfront and so truthful, that came with me finally figuring out who I was, but also conquering David Gagons, the demons of David Gagons.

Therefore now you're just an open book. You look at somebody looking right in the eye, tell me exactly who the fuck you are. You walk away. I'm good, bro, because I know exactly what this journey took to get here. And that gives you a fire and a passion that people can call you nigger. They can call you if you're a lesbian or gay or bisexual. Call you what the fuck you want.

If you put yourself in the fire and you come out every fucking day like this, brush it off, not scared to go back in there again, come on, man. Your truth is real. You come out every day, man. with a way of talking to people that people don't have because there's no truth behind them. And the truth is the starting line.

When you sit in an ugly mirror and say, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, and this. You finally started your life. Maybe 40 years old. Maybe 40 years old. Five, six kids, wife, and the second, you look in that mirror, and you say, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, well, basically, I'm not this, I'm not this, I can't do this, I can't do this,

I'm all these insecurities, your life finally started. And once you start that life, man, the truth comes out big time. Because you don't care. So that's the problem. Most people just don't want to have that conversation. It's the point where they can go on stage and a million people and say,

I'm all of this. And have a good day. See you. It's empowering. It's very empowering. I feel like the way we're educated in school, but also outside of school, is we're trained as human beings,

is these young brains to try and figure out how to get positive feedback from other people. Yep. It's like we're like little dogs. Yep. You have a bulldog. That's right. I had a bulldog.

I saw the picture of your bulldog. She's great. Charlie Dog. They're an amazing species. They are. I think of them economy of effort. Yep. Or amazing breed.

Excuse me. They're an amazing breed. Economy of effort. They don't do anything unless it's necessary. It's kind of the exact opposite of everything we're talking about. It's kind of interesting. And they're kind of hedonness. Yes.

Now it is. true that they will, they'll die to protect you. Oh yeah. And it's an instinct. I saw that with Costello. I'm sure that's, with Charlie. Yeah, it's an instinct. But if they're not in that position, if there's no need to exert effort, they're resting. Yeah. So your bulldog's resting for you. Yes. Got it. Exactly. So you don't need to rest because. Active recovery, Charlie. Perfect. That's going to be your answer from now on. Active recovery, Charlie. Does he sleep? Does he rest? No, he somehow worked it out so his bulldog does it for them. Right. But we're sort of indoctrinated into this way of being from a time that we're young

where, of course, praise feels good, right? Someone tells you, hey, I like that shirt or good job today or nicely done. For me, because I like growing up in a big pack of friends growing up, and I was never the great stat athlete, it wasn't terrible, wasn't great, et cetera, like a fist bump or like a feeling crude up. And you're just like, yeah. But you've talked about this before, in reference to the SEAL teams. We both know a lot of people in that community, and the team's component is a big part of it for a lot of people, and it's a wonderful thing.

Right. But there's a danger to that dopamine hit, for lack of a better way to put it, from what we only derive when it's coming from outside. You're talking about being able to either say, good job, but also, like, just look to one's own personal history and say, I've done hard things and I can do it again and again because I do it again and again and again. You're talking about parenting yourself, inspiring yourself, scaring yourself, all of that from the inside.

So very different than the way we're raised, which is to figure out how to get the biscuit. It's funny, man. People want to know how I'm always motivated. It's the unseen work, which you just says a true statement. Those are false dopamine hits that people are giving you, man. There's no belief in that. These are teamwork dopamine. Like, I'm out running at 2 o'clock in the morning, 1 o'clock in the morning, in the gym, long sessions by myself. That's real.

How I'm able to just extract dopamine, the good dopamine whenever I want? Man, I've trained 99% of my life alone. no one pat me on the back. I did all of the work alone. And while I'm still hard on myself, I know what I did. So whenever times get bad,

people, all this, who's your carry the boats and love? That's real. I hate that people know me for that guy because that guy is not every fucking day. Like when they see me, they want that energy. That's not me every day. I can extract it immediately when I need to,

because when you train alone and I lived alone for so many years in this misery and you're able to get out of by yourself, I can take myself to such a level of real, real passion and purpose. And like the feeling I get is something that I can't even explain by myself. I don't need anyone.

That's why people come to me to motivate them. No one can motivate me. I have a resume full of fucking motivation. That whenever I'm down, I'm like, oh, hang on, motherfucker. Oh, you know, you know the truth. You know the truth. You know the darkness of the fucking dungeons

and the fucking demons that fly. You know. And then from there, it's like, okay, you were there. You know this. There was no one there to pick up the rucksack, to pick up the boat, to pick up the log, to go in that.

It was you. It was you. There wasn't no pat on the fucking back at 300, at 275, at 250, at 220. No, that was you. So those things that come out of me, that extract from me in the darkness, people are looking for that pound of the back. Where is it?

Oh, I don't need it. Because what I've done is in the fucking unseen work, I've built Frankenstein. So whenever shit gets nasty, David Gagnes goes, you had nobody anyway, motherfucker. So see how I'm talking to myself for now? That's me.

That shit fires me to fuck up. that shit makes me fucking nuts you had nobody anyway motherfucker look around you there was no fucking team it was you there was no weight loss program or mom and dad

waking you up saying you can do it you can be better trying to build belief you built belief when you had nothing rock bottom you did that so as times get hard for me the truth comes out and my truth is powerful

as fuck. It's real. It's tangible. I feel it. It comes out of my brain as I speak about it. I'm reliving every single dark moment of my life to be here. So that is what people don't get. That is what motivates David Goggins is the unseen work, but everybody needs that pat on the back. They need that training partner. They need that accountability coach. I don't hear that shit. and neither do they. But it's what we've trained ourselves to believe that we need. It's almost like there's this pill on the shelf.

I'm speaking in analogy. Right. And we take it and we get jazzed up. We're like, yeah. But there's this other medicine cabinet behind there and it's in us. You're saying the real medicine cabinet is inside. Oh, yes.

When you continue to overcome, and I had so many obstacles to overcome. So it's actually a benefit to me, but the benefit is not like a benefit like that. You have to have the courage and the patience to overcome and overcome. Before you know it, man, you have a whole medicine cabinet,

but there's no medicine in the motherfucker. There's no pre-workout. I don't take none of that shit. All I got to do is flip my brain, put my finger in there and say, okay, that's a good one. So all I got to do, man. I got the roller decks of just like,

go fuck yourself, Goggins. Oh, but you won. let's do that one today there's nothing I need and this is the thing that people don't get about David Guggins I can't teach it in a one minute video

we all have this ability to have our own medicine cabinet but unless you go in there and put the medicine in there it's always going to be fucking empty man you're always going to need to pre-workout

you know I don't drink coffee I don't do can do none of that. I don't need, I can run for 70 hours and I had before. No caffeine. I got all this wonderful shit that I overcame on my own by myself in the darkness.

That man, when it's cold, I'm hot. When it's hot, I can feed myself all the time. That's why when people say, man, why aren't you missing anything? I can't explain it to you, man. Can't explain it to you. You'll never understand. That's why I don't do all these podcasts, dude.

I love you, man. That's why you, my first book, you did a blur for me. That's why I'm here. I love what you're doing for people, man, but I can't explain this. I can't. I can't explain this because people don't want to do this. They don't want to do this, man.

But I don't know, man. I get jazzed up even talking about it, man, because so many people think my life is just so, oh god his life is horrible i don't don't follow him he's crazy really but there are a good number of people i would say and that's an under that that actually do i think it i what i'm hearing today and it's really sinking in is that a great many people either partially or completely misunderstand you yes i'll put myself in the partially category big time because i thought it was about just like forward center of mass carrot carrot carrot carrot carrot carrot

but it's the stick. It's a stick. And it's being haunted. And, you know, I do have examples for my own life, which is not what today is about, about being really afraid and then turning things around. Right. My biggest fear is getting comfortable. Right.

I do not have as much of a stick-oriented approach. But today's conversations changing the way I think. I'm not going to step away from this and think, okay, there are 25 neural circuits that can explain 10 of the things that David's talking about. And what I'm thinking about is the fact that everybody has a brain, they have a mind. Forget the brain. The brain is just the physical structure. But what that manifests, what that creates is the mind.

And everybody has that. So I do believe that everyone has the capacity to do what you're talking about at some level. I also will be the first to confess that I think you're a highly unusual. Let's just say maybe even end of it. of one, as we say in science. Sample size of one. Right. Somebody who has created this process for themselves

and keeps them in this, themselves in this forward center of mass with the stick battering the back of their head all the time. Right. Highly unusual. But this internal medicine cabinet that you're talking about building up, true confidence, not needing anything from the outside. I think, I like to think, that people want that.

They want to be known. They're afraid, but that they want to be known for who they really are and that you're describing the path to do this. And I will say, I'm immensely grateful that you're talking to us this way today about things that you've talked about before, but we're hidden in a little differently, I like to think. Very different. Because what you're talking about is a process. It's verbs. It's all verbs. All action.

And it's not about success. It's more actually about keeping that friction dialed to 10. Right. And that I, no energy drink, no supplement. People often misunderstand me. They think, you know, like I'm big on people getting sunlight in the morning. They set their circadian rhythm and get better sleep. So they get into et cetera.

But then people always think they go straight to the supplements. Yeah. What should I take? You know, and then, of course, people think I'm all about supplements. Supplements are one piece for me, but it's like tiny fraction compared to the doing, the do's and don'ts. That's why they want to talk about that today. That's what I'm glad I was talking about this. This is it.

This is it. Like the brain is the most powerful weapon. world. And it's crazy how a kid that wasn't real smart, I was forced to go only internal. External had to go away. The external world had to go away. In living so deep inside myself, it was me in this brain and figuring out how this thing works. And it's so many people are doing exactly that, the supplements, the this, to that. I agree. It helps. But once you figure out your brain, you become unstoppable to almost anything. Yeah, you can't beat death, you can't whatever, whatever. Your brain's amazing. Once you feed it the right conversation, the right

mental nutrients, the right mental supplements, the right, the right in terms. The right, in terms. dialogue at the right time with the right hit, with the right proof of what you've done in the past, and you send it right to the right circuit, dude, you're a fucking beast. A beast. But once again, you just can't read about it. You can't sit back and be a theorist. You have to be a fucking practitioner. And in that practice is where that becomes proof. positive, what I'm saying is like, God, like David Gagans, he's blowing my mind. What is this? He's not crazy. And so many people, a lot of people have listened to me the right way, and they come back and they're like, I'm totally on board. It happened. It happened. I'm like,

it'll keep going, man, but keep doing it. But that is it, man. There's no son. There's no glory. There's no carrot. there's no victory but there is all of it in one I can't explain it real well to people man but what you get at the other end is something that you're not you're always found

you're never lost anymore doesn't mean the journey's easy doesn't get any easier but you're always found I love that I just want to hover on that for a set the same way we hovered on haunted in the stick I think people feel lost

I've certainly felt lost at times in my life, many times. And yeah, there's that thing. I don't think there's a neuroscience or a psychology term for it. Someone will say, put it in the comments and say, oh, yeah, that's what so-and-so said. But like you said, we're not trying to be theoretical here. We're trying to be practical. The business of finding yourself and knowing like, but it's sort of like I'm safe because I'm in danger and I've been in danger before and I got myself out. it always always seems to come back to verbs.

Again, I don't have a language for this. You know, for once, I'm lost for words. There's like, it's about a process, the algorithm. And the reason, here I'm just kind of trying to make sure I'm understanding things correctly, one of the reasons why it must be uncomfortable for you to be who you are publicly is because people want to focus on the running or the swearing. And by the way, the swearing is welcome. I'll tell you, I came up through laboratories where all,

three people I worked for swore a lot. But there was one rule. I couldn't swear at people. So my graduate advisor, brilliant woman, unfortunately she died early. They all died early. I'm the common denominator. I had that internalized for a long time. Anyway, she said, but if you swear at people, you're out. But you can swear as much as you want. So that's the rule I have. It's like you can swear as much as you want, just don't swear at people. If you swear it, it, people better be ready to fight. I'm definitely not going to fight you. So you can swear at me, get away with it. But the fact of the matter is that it must be frustrating that people, because I know people go, oh, it's all about supplements and ice baths. Listen, I like supplements. I love supplements

and ice baths. But that's not the full picture. They just a gravitational pull. It's the swearing. It's the running. It's his feet that are all messed up. It's the fact that he got a Triton. It's this seal guy. Yeah. You talk about that too, right? You know, and there's a gravitational pull for people and they're missing like the, that's like the tip of the iceberg is what I'm realizing. I'm realizing that today, thanks to the way you're phrasing things, because the bigger vessel is all in here. And as you said, how do you put that in a book? It's impossible.

Because it's highly individual. You do it your way. Yes. And you're saying everyone needs to go figure out how to do it their way for them. Yes. And the thing about being misunderstood is very frustrating. More than I can even imagine, I can't even express how, It is when the cussing and everything comes from a place of real, I can't explain what I do without it.

The passion comes out of me. It's almost like speaking in tongues because when you put that much work and people go, oh yeah, there's been this basketball player, this football player, this. Dude, no, no. Everything, everything is work. everything and people don't believe it so when i speak the motherfucker and the in the and and shit and that is what it took for me what it takes for me the anger the passion the the the the jaw dropping just it takes that because i'm not that this is how i look at it man What built this guy, let's imagine being in the coldest water you can possibly take.

I always go back to hell week with this. I hated the water. Hated it. You're sitting there locked arms and you're in the water all the time, and they're bringing you in and out of the water, in and out of water. When you have this dialogue in your head, and these people are judging me off a freaking one-minute video, and you're constantly your whole life, when you figured it out 24,

I got a, I just gotta, this fucking got it. And this is just going to suck. Every day is going to suck. And live like that to be better. And I put this way, I'm in the water, the water's going on my head, the Pacific Ocean, you know it's freezing. February, cold as shit. Been through three hell weeks. For you to constantly win, win, when, when, when this voice over here, the real you is saying, get the fuck, go.

you're nobody. You've always been nobody. And it's true. People don't hear that. That's a true voice. That's the real reality of David Gagons at 24 years old. It's not a false reality.

And then you had to create another voice over here that is saying you're better than that other voice. And you're in the freezing cold water that both voices don't want to fucking be in. But you win. and goes from the water to the studying, to the running, to losing weight, to how you eat, to how you function as a man. Every day of your life, you're winning these battles. And then I have normal people who only have one voice.

Never created the second voice. The winning voice is the second voice. They have one voice. And that's just, I'm a piece of shit. That's all they hear. And then they judge people like me who are out here trying to be better. It's something that I can never really, it's a frustrating thing for me. Because I know, I know the majority of people.

I know what goes on to bring, because I studied the mind more than, almost more than you. Because I wasn't, I'm a practitioner. So for you to be a piece of shit and come out of that, you don't just come out of it. You spend decades studying your mind in the human mind on how it functions in good environments, bad environments, stressful environments, patient environment. You studied all because you have to put all this together to create the mind to become successful. So I had to, it was like, God blessed me with this brain. I had to create a mind. And so in doing so, I figured out every piece of shit, human.

being in the world because that's what I was going off of for myself. So I know why you go on Instagram. I know why you, because you just have the time, you have the time because you don't want to put that time into bettering oneself. So I know why I'm misunderstood. I'm misunderstood by people who have plenty of time on their hands to misunderstand me because they are exactly where I once was.

which is a low-life, lazy piece of shit. And it's a harsh reality of people who troll you, who go after you, they have nothing better to do with your lives. It's not some after-school special. It's the truth by once was that way. I know where it all comes from. That's why it's frustrating to me now because I'm not so frustrated at the fact that I'm being trolled.

I'm frustrated by the fact that you don't have the courage, the courage to try to be somebody better. than which are not. And that's the frustrating part. It's interesting because earlier we were talking about relationships and you said in a very candid way and I really appreciate you sharing that, that you make sure that the people close to you, your family has everything they need. Right. And that they also understand that you're going to take what you need to continue to build you. Right. Period. Period. Period. In some ways, it seems you've also included the general public in that family.

you're saying, listen, I'm going to give you what you need. I'm going to give you as much of myself as I can, except I'm going to stop right at the line that if I were to cross it, is going to prevent me from continuing to build myself. And by the way, this relationship only exists because I don't cross that line. That's right. And I think as much as there are detractors out there, people that try, right? I mean, it's pretty, whatever they're doing is pretty feeble in my mind.

I mean, it's like cap gun and fire, you know, if that. Very few. You know, so many of us, men and women, old and young, hear something and feel something in your message. Like, yeah, like it seems kind of crazy. Gosh, like, doesn't he ever just relax? You know, what about his sleep, you know? Look at his feet. He's going to injure himself.

I've heard, listen, I'll be very direct. I got friends who are in the teams who just go, yeah, what's he going to do when he can't run? And I know the answer is to keep running. That's right. Right. But it's more comfortable for people, even high achievers. Especially high achievers. To believe that if you took one thing away, that it would all go away.

It's absolutely clear that's not the case with you. I'm 100% convinced. I just know that because what we're talking about is this. Do you many times I haven't been able to run? Two heart surgeries, multiple knee surgeries. And after every knee surgery, they say, you're not going to run again. And I'm fine with that. There's no running up here, bro.

None. This was what it was all about. That's what they lost. Or if you can't run. Give a fuck. It was never about running. Why do you think I run? It's the worst thing.

I hate doing it more than anything. Hence the willpower. Your anterior mid-singulate cortex would be, would start to regress if you loved running. Think about it. Every day I wake up, I don't just run a mile,

two mile. it's the one thing I hate the most to do and I do it like I love it. 250, 60, 7, 300 mile runs at one time. No sleep. In every step, when I get to the, think about this, I get to the fucking start line, cussing at Jennifer. Why the fuck am I here?

I hate this shit. After 70 some hours of running, every fucking question I ever had is answered. Every question I had is answered. I capped success. I don't, people go, we mean you cap success. For me to be who I am. So when I go smoke jump,

I'm smoke jump three to four months out of the year, sometimes five. Could you, just for those that aren't educated, just like give us a brief description of what smoke jumping entails? So basically you jump into fires, not into them, but you jump by fires that people can't get to. So out of planes and helicopters, right? Out of planes, pass-lines. Parachute, it's all parachuting.

So you parachute out of airplanes and then you fight the fire. You and sometimes four of their guys or maybe eight of their guys, guys and gals, and you're putting this fire out. So I lose millions of dollars every summer to do this. It blows people's minds. Why the hell are you doing this? And you're breathing, soot. Beating soot, knees are jacked up. hitting the ground, hurting, whatever. Talking to normal people that never get it, so I don't even explain it to them. But this is why I call cap success.

I'm talking financial success. For me to continue having that willpower, the second I just become a speaking monkey and travel around and speaking gigs 12 months out of year, put camps on, do this, put on lectures, get supplement lines and do this and write more books and shit, I've ruined the exact thing I worked on my entire life. And while I didn't know it until the day,

but something always told me, this is a very, very, very, very perishable skill, this willpower that you have, because I do have a willpower that I have never seen in anybody in my life. It is a haunting force that this keeps me going. and I know that that is my strength. If you have that, so that's worth every dime I've ever made in my life is the fact that I can look at man the eye finally

and have a real conversation without going like this because I'm lying or I'm a piece of shit or I know how a person, and so many people do this shit, they're talking to you on who they want to be. They're lying to you. and they walk away I've done it so many times you walk away like God man

why can I just tell him the truth why the hell can I just tell him the truth you know good it feels for me now look at you in your eye and every man a man I see because women won't get this

women will not get this man to man that man shit you look another man in the eye and you know that everything you're fucking saying is real and it comes from a real working place something that you earned. It's the best feeling in the world. You can say that actually

happened. Like I know with certainty, what I'm saying actually happened. Who I am and who I say I am. No more lies. No more skirt in the truth. No more bullshit. And that is worth every dime I've ever made in my life. And I swear to God on that.

Every dime I've ever made in my life building who I built. So I cap success. Because I know that if I ever go 12 months out of the year and don't put several, every day I'm going at it, but several months out of the year, I go right back to ground zero. Which means I'm just fucking David Goggins.

No Goggins. No carry boats, fucking logs bullshit. It's just pick up that fucking Pulaski and dig. Hey, get that fucking pump, walk down a mile, put it in the fucking water, is beating, you're just David Goggins. You're nobody. Because that's where my growth is. That's where my willpower comes from. And that's where it stays. That's when I talk to you now. And that can't my talk like this, dude. People don't talk with this kind of passion because it ain't there.

It ain't there. They're regurgitating some shit from 30 fucking years ago. I'm regurgitating shit from an hour ago, hour ago. Come on, man. It's just be real. And I can't be on these podcasts. I can't talk to anybody without being real. I'll go away. I'll just go away. Because I can't give you what I want to give you. You said perishable skill.

I think that's another set of words I want to highlight because skill implies behavior. And when we were just talking a second and ago about the deep, true bedrock sense of confidence that comes from looking someone in the eye and telling somebody something that you absolutely know it's true, because it happened. You're talking about actions. Not talking about perceptions.

You're not talking about what you believe happened. You know it happened. And there's something really concrete about actions. I mean, that's what's so interesting is we're talking about the mind, but actions are the manifestation of the mind. And the stuff that just stays in here, people die with that. It doesn't go anywhere. I long ago, somebody said, you know, I forget what the context was.

It was a neuroscientist. He said, you know, most emotions, like, they're just emotions. They're just in there. Like, you don't have to do anything with them. And I think certain emotions you want to do something with. Right. But I think people forget this.

They feel miserable like they're going to dissolve into puddle with their own tears. No one ever died from an emotion. Right. But they feel like they overwhelm us as if it's a tidal wave. It's going to pull us under and drown us. It's so interesting to me because I think what people, listen, you have a gravitational pull. People can feel the energy. I think, yes, you're.

either completely badly or partially understood. There's only one guy on the plant that truly understands you. I think there's one woman, Jennifer, who probably understands you as much as anyone's going to, and then the rest of us are kind of grasping, trying to figure it out. But you're saying go inward. So first go inward, and then it's actions.

Inward and actions. Now, the inward piece is something I'd like to just spend a little bit of time on because there are a couple characters from history, people that were in concentration camps. some Mandela. I mean, I'm not sure he had Instagram in there. I'm pretty sure he didn't. And I don't think there was anyone coaching him on like, hey, you're going to get out someday and actually you're going to lead an entire country. I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked. He had to find it here. He had to find it between his ears. Right. And there are other examples, but that's an important

one. So the process of going inward, does it for you, and here I will ask for suggestions, Because I think people want, there are those of us who want to build this skill. Right. Wall yourself off, phone off. Yep. For big portions of the day, perhaps. Texting off. The requests, the this, the that.

Anyone that knows you knows that. We've communicated a few texts, but most of it comes through a filter. She's great. She knows you, you know, and she knows how to protect your time. And that hurts people's feelings. People get mad about that. Hey, God bless you, Jennifer. You know, cutting oneself off.

When you're in there, you say it's just you. And the voices that come up are not pleasant. And then at some point, it converts to action. Okay. How much, what is the process of picking the action? That's the piece that I feel like there's like a bridge to build here, if you can, if you would. So the action would, like, like, what's next? Yeah, so when you go to sleep at night, when that happens, you know what you're going to do the next day?

It's pre-planned? Yes. Okay. Yes. It's always the same thing. You're not building it on the fly. No, nothing's on the fly. Nothing.

So how it works internally for me is I'm, I put it exactly how it is. I'm an artist. And every day I'm painting Mona Lisa. Every day. But it's a different one. It's not the same thing. So every day I wake up, you know, I do the same thing. It takes a different way to get there.

So every day in my mind, I'm going through my mind. I'm just like, and a good painter will not just paint. He needs to create. And you can't create the phones and everything going around you. So you got to block yourself off. You only do two podcasts in the year. You block yourself off and you're painting this thing inside and you're going through all these different color,

of paint and everything else. And you can only figure out the right painting if he spend the correct amount of time in your brain. So every single day I'm literally going with my mind and I'm painting. I'm creating this masterpiece. And a masterpiece is always myself.

But to do that, you cannot have any distractions. Because if you're talking to an artist and he's trying to think about the next painting, he can't. It's impossible to listen to you and listen to what your mind and body are telling you we must do. People don't do enough of. They don't do any of it.

They don't have passion. They lack passion, drive determination because you haven't spent time with yourself. Your mind will tell you what is next. But you haven't spent the time to go, all right, let me just figure this out. You're looking for, let me Google this, and let me Google this, and let me Google that and let me, you're not going to find it there. Because there's billions of people in this world and they're all supposed to be individuals. But we have a pack mentality. That's why you're so fucking lost. Why am I so unique? I'm being exactly what the fuck I was

supposed to be. I ain't follow shit. And when I did follow shit, I was like everybody else. the second I said okay man hang on dude you don't like this you don't like this you don't like this who are you David Gagas who are you supposed to be miraculously all these things

just I couldn't even the list of shit I had to do just wham it's like fuck okay wow once you sit down with yourself and say okay I don't want to be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown that both were on my birthday So I looked at their birthday.

I said, oh, maybe it can be one thing. I can't. I'm going to be David fucking Goggins. And that looks like this. It just came. Everything flooded. So every single day of my life, there's a different thing that comes up that I have to do.

But no one knows what to do because everybody else is following steps. Like the Republican and Democratic parties. I'm not political. Neither am I. all for this reason. Republicans are going to vote Republican. Democrats are going to vote Democrat. You're not even a human fucking being, bro. No way all you fuckers agree with all the same fucking shit. And I know I don't. So once you figure out yourself and who you are, all the answers

come. So every night, a different painting is being painted. And it's a beautiful painting for myself. I'm like, okay, that's it. It may look the same to most motherfuckers, but the end result is very fucking different. That's why my laundry,

if you look at what I've done in 49 years, it's more than most people ever do in their life because they were a race car driver. And that's what they did. They drove a fucking car. It's great.

I was all kind of shit because that's exactly what the painting was saying to do. It's what the mind was saying to do. When I was saying this driver, to them that race car driver and know what the fuck to do. He retires him being a race car driver

and they're lost. How are you still I don't get it. Dude, you're never going to fill your list but you never found your list because it never was presented in front of you because your head was cluttered with shit.

Because you never just stopped for lots of minutes. Lots of years and just said, all right, it's me and you. Let it go. And it just, bam, it's right there. It's right there. I'm not a psychologist, as I mentioned before.

But I'm going to venture a hypothesis here. I think that you've mastered the process of internal dialogue. But when I say dialogue, I think most people think, oh, the inner voice, the chatter. But that's just one half of a dialogue. A dialogue is a two-way street. So I completely agree because I know from experience that when we go inward, oftentimes we hear things if we're really honest with ourselves, it's like, I don't want to think about that or that.

No. And then we start looking outward or we start trying to shift our attention or distract. And there are a million reasons that are handed to us excuses and seemingly good justifications to be able to do that. But dialogue is a two-way street. And it hit me while you were just saying. what you were saying, I was paying very close attention, and I realize David Goggins is talking about the voice that comes up, including the terrible stuff that no one wants to hear about themselves,

from themselves, but then he's also got the dialogue down where he knows the counter voice. He goes, yeah, you're right. And so I'm going to do this. Or maybe, no, remember this. You're in a dialogue, a two-way dialogue in there. Not a one-way chatter dialogue. There are books written by famous psychologists about chatter, trying to shift your internal narrative. You're like, bring the internal, the internal narrative, that's what going inward is about, but it's not one voice. Again, there's a hypothesis. I'm not claiming to be all-knowing. Lord knows I'm not all-knowing, okay? But you've mastered the dialogue, and if there are three voices, strong, medium and weak in there. You're like, let's all come to the table. So you've got a symphony of voices in there that are

all you that you know to be you. And you know how to have those conversations. You're not afraid to be in those conversations. And then you know what the outcome of that committee decision is. And you put into real world action. And the world only sees the action. That's it. And only you can know your internal dialogue. And only I can know my internal dialogue. And the only way to quote unquote know it is to spend a hell of a lot of time there. That's right. Okay. A lifetime.

Got it. A lifetime. Think about it. For me to be sitting here in front of you, you're not going to call 300-pound eco-lab guy to come sit here. You might. I don't know. Maybe. Probably not.

Probably not. Think about this. What we teach people is kind, kindness to yourself. Do you think if I taught myself kindness, and I agree with it, God, so many people take me out of context, it's ridiculous. Take it how really fuck you want to take it. When I was 300 pounds, re-think that conversation would have got me if I spoke kindness to myself?

I'll tell you where it gets me. Right back to 7-Eleven, another box of mini chocolate donuts and the chock and milkshake. That's the one voice. That's the one voice that most of us have. that you're talking about. If you don't have a conversation in there, the other voice that you create that said, okay, how does this look?

It looks very ugly. That kind conversation from me went away a long time ago, which is why the dialogue is now, which you see a lot of action, because most people have inaction, because there's one person talking. And that one person is always lean you down the same path, the path that makes you feel,

very comfortable and happy with yourself. The second you create the other voice, there's conflict. There's battles. There's wars. Just defeat. One thing I learned, I taught myself this, and people go, I don't understand what you're saying. I'm going to try to break it down real quick. I didn't teach myself victory first. I taught myself failure.

I taught myself how to fail. And people go, that's so depressing. is it? When you're 300 pounds and you can't read and write and you're fucked up, you don't many times you're going to fucking fail on that process? So if you don't know how to fail, there is no victory. I never talked about winning. Because I knew the path to winning was it be years of failing first. So I taught myself how to fail properly. I don't want to teach you how to fucking fail. But if you're going out for, insurmountable fucking odds that make absolutely no fucking sense.

A black kid that can't swim, 300 pounds will be a Navy seal. Okay. You better teach stuff how to fail first. Because if you sit in failure for too long, you will never come out of it. So the first part of my success was learning how to fail properly. And then eventually I started getting a few victories but that's what people don't get.

When you have buried yourself in such a deep fucking hole, you better first talk about the failures you're going to have first and that's when that other voice comes up. It tells you we got to do something, but it also tells you, boy, I'm not going to lie to your Goggins. You're in for a fucking climb, bro. You're going to get your ass handed to you made fun of the outside noise, the inside noise.

Both voices are going to be fucking telling you to go fuck yourself. You are in for hell, bro. I am. So I'm better than to fail. So this is what you mean when you say that whatever anyone says, it's insignificant. Insignificant as fuck. Right. It's the cap gun fire because it's just like it, because the voice in your own head is far worse.

And I should say, sorry, one of the voices in your head. Yes. Yeah, I'm being very like detailed. almost surgical about that because I think this thing about inner dialogue we think is one voice. Yes. You're making it clear it's many voices. It is. And the thing about it is you have to be really, and sometimes all the voices are telling you the wrong shit, man.

But through years, years, not a podcast or listening to a book or reading a book, years of sacrifice, of suffering, of diligent, pinpoint, fucking work on what you want to do for yourself. Not like, oh, let me just do a bunch of shit. Let me, I want to be in every task possible. No. Pinpoint what I want to do with my life. What happens is you have all these voices that are telling you you're fucked up

and this is going to be hard, but for some reason, you put so much practice into you that you can ignore every one of them that are telling you you're not going to fucking make it and still be able to fucking make it because you have put the practice in that you know this is the process. It's such a daunting task

that all the voices are saying no. But you still have the conviction that I know I can do this. And that's what it took for me to get here 20, 30 years ago, I had this 35, whatever it was, 30, to 25 years ago, pipe dream.

And ever since then, every voice was like, you're a fucking nut. But when you put that practice in, every day you lace them up, and I don't mean, Ron, it's just a metaphor for life. When you lace the motherfuckers up every day, pretty soon you win. Pretty soon you'll fucking win.

If you have the courage and the heart and the dedication and the mindset about everybody can go fuck themselves. I know what I know. I've listened to myself enough to know. I know what I know. None of you can hear what I'm hearing. And that's what people don't do enough of. They don't listen to their journey.

They listen to everybody else is shit. Before you know it, I'm crazy. But if I'm so fucking crazy, why am I so successful? How that happened? I'm so misguided and fucked up and don't listen to him. Why am I the only one to do a whole bunch of shit?

Why am I a trailblazer? Why? How is that possible? How can you be fucked up and also self-made the same fucking... No, no. Obviously, you're not looking at the truth in front of you. The truth in front of you is it sucks.

It's painful. It's fucking mind-numbing. And that is the truth. And that's why a lot of people don't like listening to me. Because this is what it takes. Creating another voice and sometimes going out of the alone. All the time going to add alone because no one's going to believe in you. And that's that.

What I'm about to say is not conjecture. And I can say that with confidence because I did a four-episode guest series with a brilliant psychiatrist. A guy named Paul Conti, Trenton, he's a Stanford Harvard train guy. He's also got a lot of street in him. He's at his own hardship, real hardship. He's brilliant. And he said something that I'll never forget, which is, you know, we think that the forebrain,

the part of our brain that creates strategy, et cetera, is the supercomputer. He said, no, no, no, no, no. It's like the supercomputer of the brain is the unconscious mind. It's the part of our mind that's controlling most everything. And most people, unfortunately, don't do the work to understand how they're unconscious is controlling them. And that's a scary thing, this idea like your mind is controlling you, you know, and I'm not going to get into the free will debate. I believe in at least some will. I believe what you're describing and this internal dialogue, I think you have access to your unconscious mind.

By listening to the dialogue going inward, we know this is true in sleep, in dreams, in meditation, and just by shutting out everything else, shutting out all the external noise, which is filled with things that pull us twice. Noise makes it sound bad, but it's the gravitational pull of all the things that just allow us to distract ourselves without knowing that, you know, the ice cream, to have a cookie, the Merry Christmas.

The unconscious mind, this huge piece of the iceberg underneath that Paul calls the supercomputer. He's saying that with knowledge as a neurobiologist, psychiatrist, psychologist, and he really knows. That's the piece that if one does real introspection, at the cupboards, you got to look in the cupboards, and it's often really scary what you find in there.

And most people are just like, I don't even want to know the cupboards are there, but you're pulling all the cupboard doors open. And then you're, and I'm, you're extremely deliberate with what gets put into action. You're not just going, oh, like, I'm pissed, so I'm going to act pissed, or I'm, you know, tired, so I'm going to act tired. It's, you're picking very carefully what to do. And that's a process that, I'm guessing, came to you. Does it come to you as a, you as a, you know, okay, it makes sense why running makes sense. It makes sense why smoke jumping makes sense. So it seems like a huge portion of your time

is spent understanding yourself and making sense to you. And so when people don't understand you, it's got to be extra frustrating. Because most people don't understand themselves so that we're all running around going like, you're this and you're that, because most people are just unwilling to look inward. And I'm including myself, by the way.

Right. I mean, I've done a fair amount of introspection, but I'm inspired today, that word inspired, but it's true, motivated to start going inward further. Because it is scary. It's like we don't know what's in those cupboards and it's terrifying. Yes. Especially because we don't know. And those are the first ones that open up. And like he talked about, you got to go through those covers. I do spring clean every fucking day in those dark covers. Those dark cabinets are the ones I start with first.

That's the real me, man. That's the real man. That's why I'm not ashamed. I don't hide. I used to hide. I don't hide anymore. He's exactly right. I don't know all the fucking science behind shit.

I know what I know. That's why I don't listen to anybody anymore. I don't listen to shit. I think most people are full of shit. Because I know. I know the deep, dark secrets of those fucking cupboards. It's ugly, man. And every day I'm talking to him.

Every day I'm cleaning them. I'm cleaning them and I'm talking to the same demons that came out of those fucking cupboards. as I'm cleaning them. Sometimes it go right back in them again. It's not easy. And this is why most of us just why I am misunderstood.

Because what comes out of those cabinets that I'm cleaning, sometimes they see on Instagram. Sometimes they'll see it in the pocket. Sometimes they'll see it in this one. I turn people off. Open up your own cabinets. And then go talk about it.

it. Let me see how pretty it looks. Let me see how pretty you sound. Let me see how put together your words are. I bet you a fuck or a motherfucker comes out because for you to go back in there again to clean the same fucking cabinet, the demon came out of? Take some big balls, bro. To do it every day of your life. To go back in there in spring clean every day. Not once a fucking year, once every decade every day you know it gets dusty and every day you don't start with the with the victories

you don't go oh this is nice look at my I love me while let me clean up this little dusty no I go right for the things that I can keep me buried I go right there first because if I don't clean those out first the day doesn't start so what are you saying

to me is truth and like I told you many times a day I can never figure out how to explain this shit to people because I'm not neuro-nothing. I'm just a guy that said, okay, we got to start in the dungeon, and we got to stay here for the rest of our lives. For you to become successful, the dungeon is a place that has to be clean,

and it's the scariest place to be. That's why I'm misunderstood, because I'm speaking from the dungeon. That's why I am successful. successful because I go there every damn day. And that is the truth, what he says. It's the exact truth. Those cabinets are fucking dusty, dirty, and scary as shit.

Broken glass, fucking dark, spiders, cobwebs. But most of all, your biggest fears. The biggest things that put you in the fucked up place you are today are in there. So we all like to keep them shut, even like to lock them up. Act like they never happen. That's why you never grow. You never improve. You never have real conversations

like we're having right now. Never. Never. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's not, no, no, no, no, let's not go there. I talk to so many people who tell me that. Let's talk about this. Because they'll tell me, but they can only say it once.

And they'll say it in passing. They won't get deep in the weeds with it. Like, you can't just clean it. motherfucker you got to spit shine that motherfucker you got to relive it every fucking detail of it you can't say oh yeah yeah my dad beat me

and they you know it is what it is it is what it is motherfucker it's killing you it's taking over your whole fucking life but that's the conversation yeah my dad be it but I'm fine now though I'm good okay

all right no you ain't you ain't you ain't fine You ain't fine. This is real talk. People don't have that. So your boy's right. 100% right. Scary as shit. It's scary as shit.

It makes you who you're supposed to be. And that's the test. We forget, we think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids and pay the bills and shit. What's this life about? That ain't no sense. Being tested, my friend. Test come when you have not studied. Test come when you think that you're in a great place.

That's the test. The test is every day of your life. And most of us fail because we don't know why we're here because we don't go inward to say, oh, you gave me a lot of shit to fix, man. And this test sucks. But then you start. David Goggins, I don't think I could add to that.

I know I can't. Thank you for sharing what you shared today. I mean, as much as your process or anyone's process can't be completely understood from the outside, you gave us a real window into this thing, this process that you, as you said, God put it on you. I believe in God too. People can believe what they want, but somehow, you. your life, God gave you these challenges early on, and then there was a point where you went internal. And like you said, you developed a skill, but it's a perishable skill.

And you clearly live in the process of opening those cupboards, reopening those covers, trying to spit-shine those cupboards, understanding that they're never, ever really done, but that you can gain ground on them. You can win day after day after day. And you really shared a lot of concrete things that I think I know people are going to be able to apply if they choose. And I agree with you. I think most people will be like, whoa, that was a lot. Yep.

It's heavy. I think I want to just kind of bake myself in Netflix and checks mix instead. But there's also. the reality that there are men and women, boys and girls, hear that and go, okay, and start cracking the cupboards open. Right. And I just know that, you know, for myself, I'm extremely grateful that you're willing to put it all out there.

You're so brutally honest, so brutally authentic. That word authenticity gets thrown around so much. And I can tell you that for me and for everybody else, like that's really what resonates. So whether or not you want to, whether or not it's the purpose behind it or not, you're lighting the path. So thank you. Respect.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you for today's discussion with David Guggins. To learn more about David and to find links to his two fantastic books can't hurt me and never finished, please see the show note captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us.

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