I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 14. “I hide my spending from my husband”

Episode Date: October 19, 2021

Meet Chuck and Mary. With a household income of $450,000 a year, they’re wealthy, but they’re not living A Rich Life. Mary spends money--in secret -- and feels judged when she makes “frivolous�� designer bag purchases. Meanwhile, Chuck feels he can’t invest in a personal trainer.  Their backstory is revealing. Mary grew up in a large family in Argentina where a bottle of Coca-Cola was an indulgence. When she made it to the States, she never wanted to feel deprived again.  Suddenly, her spending takes on a new dimension. To her, a Chanel bag is more than just a bag. They have the money, yet they lack a shared plan. To create a Rich Life, they’ll have to dig into each other’s money clues. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

I felt dumb sometimes wanting a Chanel purse as an asset. When he's like, that's not important, we can put our money, that money and investment. I'm like, I know that, but I still love the purse. If we allocate 10 grand a year for you to spend on whatever you want, I have no cares in the world of what you're spending money on. It's when you go to 15,000. Or 7-year-old, he knows, and he has told me, Mommy Don't Don't Blow All Our Money. I'm frustrated I can't do more for myself, but I feel like I'm working hard, and, you know, doing a fight for the family, yet I come last in it. I would like to do more for myself.

There's only so much that people can put up with. I mean, it could be years, but it all is eventually crumbled. If we don't have the same vision and the same plan because that happened to my parents, you know, they split up in their 60s. I'm Remi Tseiti, and this is I will teach you to be rich, the podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking to Chuck and Mary. Mary's 37 years old, and she's originally from Argentina.

She moved to Los Angeles with Chuck, who's 38, and she still feels guilty that she doesn't live close to her family anymore. Their issue is spending. Mary loves to spend a lot on high-end luxuries like Chanel bags, and Chuck is starting to feel like he can't spend any of his money on the things he likes. By the way, his annual income is $450,000 a year. And there's another problem. Mary has started hiding her spending from Chuck. I definitely had the fact that I did a cult sculpting treatment

and some other skin treatment in my stomach because I had three kids and I was very self conscious about it. So I've hidden that for a long time. I ended up telling him, but it was in a very casual way like, yeah, I did this. You know, I have, you know, they gave me payments, which they're going to be for the rest of my life, you know, and it's not a big deal. But the truth is I actually hit it for a while from him,

and I was scared to tell him because I didn't want him to judge me for it or, you know, or get disappointed at me. There've been a number of situations like that. I wish there weren't limits and wish to provide for the family to, you know, not have any restrictions in terms of what she could do, but also a field challenge and, you know, that she has to hide it and we can't have the conversation about it, or by the time we have the conversation, then it's, you know, a more tense place to have it because

of one of us feels like the other person did something wrong. How much is this cool sculpting costs? It was $7,000. Okay. Now, is that a little or a lot? It's a lot of your income. I mean, it's a lot. I mean, our income is really good, but we also have a lot of luxuries that we

choose to have, like having a full-time housekeeper, so that obviously doesn't leave a lot of room for discretionary spending, because we needed at the moment, I just think I can figure it out later. I'm like, I'll figure it out later. I'll pay for it with, I don't know, with a gift money or something.

But it was definitely something that I should have talked about because it was a commitment, and I still have talked about because it was a commitment and I still have to pay for it even though it was in 10,000 payments. My whole life, all I wanted was things as a kid. I lacked a lot of things. And there was so much deprivation that once I got a of like the good life here in America. You know, Josh and I are not wealthy, but you know, he grew up in a family that is wealthy. And that gave me access to a bunch

of things that I didn't know that they were possible. Like what? Like, like, fine, a designer dress for my wedding. Like that was like, I don't know, that was like a truly like princess moment for me, you know. And these was early on in our relationship. Once I I discovered that good life, I was like, I want it all. I never want to feel deprived again. Because what? Because that makes me me sad and it makes me feel deprived and it brings me back to you know the years when my mom would say like we can't have this because we don't have money and there's not enough there's not enough I can't buy you these I can't buy you that I can't give you what you want because it's expensive. We're too many. That was another script.

We're too many. You can't afford that. You can't have a 616 birthday party because you have four sisters. It was all like I can't. I can never have. There was a lot of attachment to the material too because of course, once you lose it or you ruin it, there's no more money for replacing it or buying more. So when I had the chance here in the US, especially in such an easy economy, I would say,

in access to everything I just went bananas. We grew up in a very unsafe social situation in my country. There was a lot of crime going on. And there was a lot of like, you know, robberies around my neighborhood, my whole childhood to the point that as an adult, I still carry a lot of like the fears and the folies or I have like this fear that something's going to happen to me.

Still to the day, like, it's something that I battle with and that's why I go to therapy and do other things just to like, you know, lose that sort of like, that fear for like getting hurt or you know, something that happened into me. I can sense that burden that you are clearly still caring today. I appreciate that you are clearly still caring today. I appreciate that you are so open about it because it can't be easy.

And I can also say that people who grew up in the US, in certain parts, they might have a sense of what you went through. But in most parts of the US, we cannot fathom our currency might be totally devalued tomorrow. It's just not something that we grew up with. So I appreciate you being so open about that. Try to put yourself in her shoes. Think about what it must have been like to grow up in a country where you had no idea

what would happen tomorrow. Most of us in the US simply cannot fathom it. When we go to the store, we know that $1 is $1. We know there's gonna be eggs in the grocery store, and there's going to be gas at the gas stations. We cannot imagine what it's like to think about our currency being devalued overnight. You know, sometimes I wish I could take my loudmouth friends to India and let them see what poverty and opportunity there looks like.

You know, I had one friend who said to me, well, if I could make it here, I could make it there. And I stopped him right away. I said, let me explain something to you. In my family's house in India, there's a maid. Her mother was a maid. Her mother's mother was a maid. And if she's lucky, her daughter will work in technical support. My friend's response, well, if one in a billion could do it, I could do it. This Western centric way of thinking is pervasive, especially among people who are from small towns and haven't traveled much or been exposed to other cultures. For them, the world is easier to navigate if it's black or white. Successful people work hard. Therefore, poor people must not work hard. Okay, so listening to her describe her upbringing, it might be

tempting for us to roll our eyes. Talk about how irresponsible she's being with spending and buying all these things. But we also have to take into account where she came from and where she is now. Before 150, it sounds like a lot. And I don't feel like we have that much for some reason. I guess like between schools and the house people are like, it doesn't feel like it leaves a lot of room for, you know, things. You did earlier say, we are not wealthy. Do you remember saying that?

Right. Now, when you hear that number, would you consider yourself wealthy? I would definitely, you know, it sounds like a lot of money. It sounds like somebody does doing very well in life. Why don't we change that phrasing a little bit? It is a lot of money actually. Yeah. It's just it is it is it doesn't sound like it it is a lot of money especially for LA. I think it's a good it's a good living. Okay, Rich, give that to me in a a lot of money and it is a salary of someone that leaves

very well. Like, it's a good income. Wow. How did that feel to say? It felt good. Yeah. But it makes sense. Do you leave it? It felt good. Yeah. But it makes sense.

I have a hard time doing so. I don't know why because because I guess like life in LA and with kids, it's so expensive that it doesn't seem like we're living this lavish, fabulous life of the rich and famous. But it is actually because you know when we were young and we talked about you know how much we would like to make this was like a super like crazy goal you know. This is classic. I literally have people who say to me well so I'd go rich or anything we're what I would call well off. I'm like, you have a fucking net worth of $32 million. You're rich.

I'm going to spend a second here because this is an important point. It's not just that this is eternally annoying to me. It's also that part of living a rich life is being honest, being honest with others and being honest with yourself. If you earn $450,000 a year, you are financially rich. You're wealthy. Now, we can argue over definitions and lifestyles, but by any calculation of median income, you are wealthy. Now, are you a hundred millionaire wealthy? Billionaire wealthy? No, but you're wealthy nonetheless. It's important for you to be honest

with yourself because it forces you to take agency for your decisions. It's not that you're just a middleing, upper middle class person who's struggling to save more. No, you chose to hire a chef. You chose to send kids to this school to buy Chanel bags. Own it. I want you to take ownership of your decisions. And once you're honest with yourself, then you finally earned the right to change. But without that honesty, you've created this fake scarcity in your mind. Oh, boohoo. We don't really have a lot. I mean, sure, we do fine, but it's not like we're rich. I would rather you say, we do very well, and we're fortunate. Here's what I choose to spend my money on, and here's what I don't spend my money on.

Remit, the reason I'm talking to you is that I don't think my spending is aligned with my values, and I want your help to change that. Or, remeath, we make $450,000 a year. I'm frustrated that we can't buy this one thing. I really want to do it. Why can't we do it? Great. I love the honesty. I might tell you, hey, you actually need to earn more in order to do that, or you need

to spend less on something, but at least we can have an honest conversation. Okay. So no matter what, please stop the bullshit about making $450,000 in your 30s and not being wealthy. And when you were a kid, how much did you want to make? No, when we were talking about living in LA, about New York, that we consider ones, he's like, I need to make, you know, at least half a million a year. And this was like when we were like young and not really married. So it's pretty crazy that we

rich almost that point. We haven't really traveled. We cut back on a lot of restaurants spending, cut back on, you know, things discretionary items that I would like personal training or gym memberships and you know I find ways to find the same enjoyment and food and self-care in more more affordable ways and I also have cut back in terms of where I'd want to invest and you know put money to work in other places and so it's not you know deprived in the sense of you know living, living in a Buddhist monastery, but it's, we're still living a quality life, but I still hold back on, on different things

that I'd like to do a bit more of. What do you feel when you hear that? No, I mean, it makes me sad, but it makes me sad because I don't want him to feel deprived because he also is the one like working super hard for that money. How much money are you going to have to make in order for you to be able to get even one personal training session per week?

I don't know, maybe 50% more, right now. So you're going to have to make $750,000 for you to spend $100 a week on personal trade. Maybe the reality is, we should already be able to do that if that's something that I prioritize and value and want to make happen. I agree. Oh yeah. What I'm really trying to point out here is,

in the current state, you're going in, you're never going to get those training sessions. Yeah, Never. It's not about the amount of money because you make a lot of money. And also when I say personal training, I'm not necessarily saying you're getting five training sessions a week, that's expensive. But even one, which could be meaningful to you, the fact that what you just said is, I'm going to have to make three quarters of a million dollars

to spend a hundred dollars a week on something that's important to me and the health for me and my family. That doesn't seem right. No, you're right. So why don't you tell a f***ing back and I don't want you to minimize? I want you to tell her exactly how you feel right now. Yeah, the way I feel is I'm frustrated I can't do more for myself but I feel like I'm working hard

and doing a lot to provide for the family yet I come last in it. I would like to do more for myself. I hear you. I hear you. And you should. I think you should do more for yourself because I would like to see you doing more for yourself because I would inspire me to probably pull back a little bit and also like see you happier and enjoying your life and your hard work a little more. I noticed this role of the pursuer and pursue to come in and saying, Hey, what's up with the spending? And you're feeling judged, you're feeling guilty. Oh, I may have overspent again, retreat. Josh pursues a little more. And then it all kind of falls apart because you're both dancing with each other other but you already know where the dance

is going to go. We didn't follow through, she spent more than we said and worst of all, there's no real consequences. What's the effect of any of this? And the truth is nothing really, you're living a pretty good life. You have a live-in housekeeper. If you wanna get certain things, you get it. So really, you both haven't yet uncovered a motivation strong enough to get you to want to change. Is there one? I don't know, actually.

There's so much more that we could do. And so it's about this future state that doesn't exist. And maybe there's not enough color or shared vision for what that looks like. I want to accumulate the ability today over time to be able to do more in the future. Because I don't know all the things that we want to do, but I know one, at any moment, our life could get disrupted. You know, something could happen with the business, and I want to be prepared in the worst-case scenario that if something does happen, we can continue at least sustaining our life until things get back on track. Both of us feel stress because there's some future state that may be owning more, more purses or

having more things that are important to her. And for me, it's about protecting this, this ability and flexibility to do things in the future to have that stability and have that abundance and have those other things. I mean, I might not have alignment around what that looks like from each other's point of view. Oh, I love this. Did you catch what just happened? I asked what would get them to change and he gave me this long rambling answer. He doesn't even remember the question. He was just talking stream of consciousness. How do you think she responded to that? The question I asked was, is there a motivation that would get you to change? And you just gave that answer. What did you hear?

I heard nothing. Correct. There's nothing there that motivates me to change. Why? I think because I haven't been concrete enough and outlining things that are motivating her. Or yourself, you're speaking academics. Oh, I want to be able to potentially invest one day and something.

What I really was hoping you would say is I want to get a personal trainer four times a week. That is concrete. I wish you would say, you know what, I want to take all of us on a trip to this place and this hotel. I want to take all the kids on a kite surfing expedition. If you heard something like that, what would you think? That sounds awesome.

Let's get to it. But like I literally hear nothing. It's always the same answer, which I think is very valuable from a business point of view, but from a personal point of view, it really doesn't speak to me. This is one of the most common things that I see from men. They go into long monologue land, and when I ask them, Hey, did you see your wife's face while you were talking?

They look at me completely bewildered. Now, what do you mean? I'll say, well, what do you think she thought of when you were giving me that answer? And they have no idea. In psychology, there's a concept called social monitoring. I'll give you the simple version of it. If you're a high social monitor, you're aware of the social context around you. You're likely to adapt to it. If you're a low social monitor, you're not really aware and you're not going to change your approach. You're basically going to be the same in every situation, whether you're at the orchestra or a club in the meatpacking.

The vast majority of low social monitors that I meet are men. So what's the lesson here? Don't do that. In your head, you sound logical and smooth. If you were to take one second during the middle of your long monologue and look up at your partner, you might realize they are not listening to you at all. They're totally disconnected. Now, I would love to spend more time on fine-tuning these social skills if you want to do that,

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And I like to see you enjoying the things I enjoy and I'm more thinking about how we can make our life more enjoyable. Okay, so we're going to get to this right now. Let's actually do it. So what I would like to ask both of you is to really think about the next five years. What are the bucket list items, the things that would be incredibly meaningful to you. To achieve. And I'm talking specifics. So within the next five years in order for us to be living a rich life, I think I would love to go to Big Sur for every anniversary

and stay at the post-runch in, which is the most incredible place that I've been. And just spend a few days there and enjoy and not worry about cutting back on alcohol because the bill is going to go up. Also, I would like to treat myself to a Chanel bag every year, which they cost around 5 to 7 grand each. I would like to get a bigger house and decorate it as I want it. I would like to go to Europe. I would like to go to Greece and the south of Italy. And I would like to go to Greece and the south of Italy,

and I would like to go to the south of France. I don't know much about hotels there, but I probably would like to stay at a really nice one and travel business class for everything. I think there's a lot of overlap in the things that I wrote down. The one question I have is, those are the things that matter most. Are you willing to make sacrifices in the day to day week to week month to month life in order to achieve those things?

Yeah, if there's a plan, if there's a deadline, for sure. And if there's also, I think, not judgment on the other end, just because mostly I never wanted to say the things that they were important to me because I feel like, sometimes wanting, rational, persistent asset. When he's like, that's not important. We can put our money, that money in investment. I'm like, I know that, but I still love the first. What can I do differently in order for you not to feel judged? Because truthfully, if we allocate whatever, 10 grand a year for

you to spend on whatever you want, I have no cares in the world of what you're spending money on. It's when you go to 15,000 that there's judgment around, well, I thought you were going to be able to get what you want with this that we talked about and the judgment is more about going above and beyond than what you're doing kind of with with that span. I've heard you say it multiple times you feel judged. I hear it and so we've kind of narrowed it down to this one simple beautiful example of a Chanel bag. What I might suggest to you is not telling what actually makes you anxious and when you're not anxious and you're not judging here, but you are judging if it gets above a certain amount. What if you instead you simply said, you know what? I don't

think I've ever really asked you why you love Chanel bags. What does it mean to you to be able to get one every single year? Can you tell me? I'd love to know because I want to understand more. If you ask that, how do you think f***ing wouldn't be at? But love to tell me. Well, let's do it. So what is it about having a shell bag that's so motivating and that you're so interested in? Because I think is the material icon for I made it for I achieved, I achieved the reach life. It's such a precious the reach life. It's such a precious thing in the fashion world, but also like, you know, in the world in general, like I feel like as a woman that likes clothes and fashion, having multiple-sional purse basically is the realization of like

the rich woman, you know, that I always wanted to be like the sex on the city, kind of like vision of like me wearing designer clothes and launching and having fun with friends. That was like the fantasy that I build up in my head, growing up and thinking like that's what I want to be, because I don't want to lack things anymore, and I want to be able to treat myself whenever I want. So for me, it's like, yeah, it's like the birth of the reach life that I wanted. What did you hear just now? So what I heard is it's a token or symbol of affluence

or respect or prosperity that could prove to herself that she's made it out of the past that she came from and get recognition for others that she's accepted on a different level than maybe she feels, wouldn't natively feel comfortable with. Just funny when I was little, my parents, you know, they would have months that they were really bad and that we were having like tea and crackers for dinner and then months that they were better. So when my mom would come back from the grocery store with prosciutto and a bottle of Coca-Cola,

that meant that that month was like booming. It was like, my dad was bawling, you know. So this would be basically the translation of that. Yep. The handbag goes way deeper than A-back. It's not about function, it's not frivolous, it represents something much, much deeper to her. I just love hearing people talk about what they want to spend money on. I love it. I love that it's conscious. I love that it's so focused. I love that it's conscious.

I love that it's so focused. I love that it's a beautiful thing that you've thought about is clearly emotionally connected for you. And the prosciutto example is such a beautiful capstone to that. It is your grown up equivalent of getting prosciutto and concoct.

So I hear that and I love it. I don't think it's shallow at all. My suggestion is that you could ask 30 more questions about a Chanel bag and she would sit here for the next 15 hours and happily tell you every last detail about every Chanel bag she's ever looked at. Am I right? You are absolutely right. Exactly. I just don't think that he cares about it. So.

But that's what we're talking about. Because you've never given him a reason to understand why this is important. Before it was just a bag and actually kind of thought of as a frivolous symbol. But what we're seeing is that it's way deeper than that. It's way deeper. So you could sit and you could learn about these bags and you could ask her a bunch of questions both about the bags. But also, what does it

mean to you? What tell me about this pursuit of it? So how often would they come home with it? And then what happened? And would everybody gather around the table? What was that like? And then what YouTube one Coke and shared it with all the different glasses? Oh my God, that's crazy. What happened then? What you're starting to get to with these questions is the idea of that. This bag is not just a bag, it's really a symbol

as you put it, the token. And so suddenly, when you go together to get that bag once a year, maybe you make it a whole thing. Let's go there. And afterwards, we're gonna take that bag in the box and we're gonna go to the prosciutto place and we're gonna eat prosciutto, coke,

and enjoy the Chanel bag. It becomes a whole event. If you did that once a year, what do you think would happen in your relationship? Think the deal less judged more value than more motivated stand track? I think so too. And now I wanna hear from what did you write down

for your rich life in the next five years? So travel is on mind too. We just did a family trip to you. Somebody rented it at this amazing house and the kids, especially after being stuck inside, were able to just get dirty, get wet, explore and we had the best time. I would love if we could do two luxury trips like that, one with the family and one as a couple, where we don't have to be constrained around where we go, we could travel to Montana or Hawaii or go to Europe.

For me, that's the best use of money or things that create memories and create connection and create those moments where we can connect that we normally can't in each other's life. Two is, right now I hate that we feel stressed to have to pay for private school tuition for the kids. I would love for that not to be a worried for middle school, high school. I want the kids to be able to go to whatever school they want to without money being a getting factor. Three is I would love at least twice a week

to have tennis lessons, personal training, some sport or activity that feels selfish that I can do for myself that makes me feel good. And Lasse also had something around the house. I would love to be able to add a bedroom, redo the yard, just kind of take our living to the next level, whether it's moving into a new house or doing something with ours. Great. Thank you very much. That sounds amazing. What did you feel hearing those things? It makes me happy when he thinks about

himself and about his own personal needs. Like I love that he wants the kids to have good education because we all want that. But I like to hear when he's like I want a personal trainer or I want to be able to do tennis classes because, you know, it's at the end of the road. I like to hear that he wants to indulge or, you know, enjoy himself selfishly because I am like that and I have a lot of guilt towards thinking that way that things that are just for me are selfish or,

you know, I have to hide it because I feel guilt. Like, it's actually really nice to hear him say in that. You hear that phrase guilt? I have a lot of guilt. I'm going to reframe that for them. I don't feel guilty because there are limits. I love limits with my money. Let me show you why. I am glad you both have limits. Thank God that there are limits. I think life is a lot more fun with limits.

It gives me something to look forward to. And that is a total reframe on your money, not only for yourself but for your kids. What kind of example do you think that they're learning by seeing parents who pull away from each other and hide money and spending and then it blows up and they don't commit to fixing. Oh my kids no. My kids know it's really terrible. My kids like they're like can we buy these but we're not going to tell Poppy and I'm like like no we shouldn't lie to him. You know. We shouldn't lie to him but hold on don't mention that cool sculpting thing for some of the guys. I know, I know, I know, it's like, it's one of those things, those things like, do what I say, but not what I do.

So your kids are smart, and they're already old enough to have already picked up on this. Yeah, my older kid for sure, this, or seven year old, he knows, and he has told me, mommy don't blow all our money. I love that we completely bury this until the end. There are real consequences for not committing to a plan that both of you put together and stick with it. Your seven year old is already picking up on this and you both know as parents once the kid picks up on something and starts doing it, it is a hundred times harder to reverse that behavior and to get it right in the first place. What are the consequences if we don't live a rich life? So in your case,

the consequences are actually not that bad on the surface. Oh, we can't get an extra floor in our house and we can't get this Chanel bag and stay at this beautiful hotel. Oh, boohoo. But when you dig a little deeper, there are some serious consequences. What are they? But definitely, you know, what we're modeling to our kids, you know, and I don't want to set them for failure Because this is how we teach them by modeling. It's like there's so much I can tell them But if I don't do it, they will never do it kind of like when you grew up and you heard things around you like There's too many We don't have enough and how many years later are you still working through those issues?

I mean, I'm 38 years old and I still can get over it. So that's good. What other consequences are there if you don't live your rich life? I mean, there's a lack of trust and feeling of support and commitment and the relationship. And that can't be good for the long-term health of a relationship. Yeah. No, because there's only so much that people can put up with. I mean, it could be years, but it all eventually crumbles when we don't have... if we don't have the same vision and the same plan because that happened to my parents.

You know, because my mom was an ambitious woman. She was the daughter of someone who had money and she sort of like expected the same from my dad who came from a more humble upbringing and more like I just want a night of five job and be happy about it. And that over years and years of struggling and you know in their marriage and with the family and everything each ended up you know they split up in their 60s. As I always say, the real issues often come out in the last five minutes. You know, it is amazing to me that people will see something broken in their lives, like an overbearing parent or a lazy spouse, and then they will recreate the conditions that lead to that exact same thing happening again.

In many ways, we are following a map that's been set since childhood. But we can change it. Now, these two are living a good life. I would say a very good life. With just a few small tweaks, they could turn that into a rich life. But in this case, it takes both of them to make it happen. For him, he needs to speak up and be assertive about what's a priority to him. For her, first of all, she's got to stop hiding expenses. That's just unacceptable.

She also needs to create the conditions that let him feel comfortable enough to spend on himself. And for both of them, they need to have honest conversations about what they want, about their invisible scripts where they came from. And during these conversations, they need to watch each other and do a lot of active listening. Things like, what did you just take away from what I said? Here's what I heard. What do you think of that? If they can do this, they can change their lives in six months.

If not, well, they have a preview of what their life might turn out to be. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. I'm Remi Tseati. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't read, I will teach you to be rich. My book. Pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for

how to build the I will teach you to be rich system into your personal finances. Here's what you'll find next week on the I will teach you to be rich podcast. I don't feel like we are working as a team when it comes to money. I mean, I got in there a day that I couldn't afford. I felt like the way you say it. You could definitely afford food. If you were, you know, kind of looking at me and you'd be like,

oh, why is this guy walking around with holes in his shoes? Do you really have holes in your shoes? Yeah. I have holes in my sneakers that I wear. Yeah.