I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 194. “$0 savings, $0 investments. Is it too late for us?” (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

On last week’s episode, we met 38-year-old LaKiesha and 45-year-old James, a couple struggling to get on the same page financially. With no savings, no investments, and deep-rooted money fears, they’re stuck in a cycle of mindless spending. Today, we’re digging back into their CSP—and the numbers are more shocking than they expected. Can they finally break old habits and build their Rich Life together? This episode is brought to you by: Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://rocketmoney.com/ramit Netsuite | Get visibility to everything in your business in one place. Sign up and defer payments, with no interest, for six months at https://iwt.com/netsuite Thrive Market | Head to https://thrivemarket.com/RAMIT and get 30% off your first order—plus a FREE $60 gift! Trust & Will | Secure your assets and protect your loved ones. Get 10% off plus free shipping on your estate plan documents by visiting https://trustandwill.com/ramit Next Level Wardrobe | Take their free styling quiz and elevate your style at nextlevelwardrobe.com/ramit Links mentioned in this episode • Get my new book: Money for Couples • Episode 193. “I’ve filed for bankruptcy twice. Will I ever stop spending?” (Part 1) Connect with Ramit • Get Money Coaching with Ramit  • Download the Conscious Spending Plan • Listen to my book—now on Audible • Get my New York Times best-selling book • Get my no-numbers journal • Other episodes • Instagram • Twitter • YouTube If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

I want to give a huge thank you for reading my material, for listening, for watching, because I have some big news. My new book, Money for Couples, is officially a New York Times bestseller. I want to give a special thanks to my team who helps take the material that we create and shares it with the world and to you who ordered the book, who came to my live tour, who tell your friends how important it is to live a rich life. That means a ton to me.

And it also helps get this book in front of more and more people. So thank you for your support. If there is someone in your life who can benefit from Money for Couples, please send them the link IWT.com slash money for couples so that they can get themselves a copy. Thank you again. If you and your partner want my help with your finances, please listen up. I'm especially looking for couples who have been affected by identity theft

or they have been a victim of a scam. And if that has affected your finances, your money psychology, your relationship, I want to help. If this is you, please apply at IWT.com slash apply. If I think I can help, my team will reach out for an interview with you and your partner. And if it's a good fit, I'll invite you to join me on the podcast.

I'm only looking for couples who are serious and ready to do the work. So if that's you and you've been affected by identity theft or some kind of scam, please apply at iwt.com slash apply. On last week's episode, we met 38-year-old LaKesha and 45-year-old James. We've talked about money, but it's some more from a lack of, right? I want to get on the other side of that. The couple recently moved in together and they're trying to get on the same page about their finances, but it's a challenge.

I had a repossessed car credit cards and some loans. I have not considered my future self at all. In fact, I've pretty much set that person up for failure in a lot of ways. They have no savings, no investments, and they both struggle with the money messages they received growing up. I'm scared to do things, so I guess that's why I didn't accumulate a lot. Today we're digging back into their conscious spending plan or CSP. The numbers are shocking. We have to do something.

Okay, guilt-free spending. Tch, I always got guilt about that. Are LaKesha and James willing to change the way that they mindlessly spend money and get focused on their rich life? We want to be better for each other so we can have a better future. Now, let's get back to our conversation with LaKesha and James. When we left LaKesha and James last week, we had just learned they have zero savings, zero investments, and $190,000 of debt between the two of them.

Let's dig back into the numbers and we'll see if they're ready to make a change. If something were to happen, we have nothing. We would have to borrow money in order to mitigate whatever that something is. And have you ever gotten in that situation, LaKeisha? Like zero savings, maybe you got sick or you lost your job or anything like that? Fortunately, no, I have not. You're basically driving without a seatbelt. Most know, most of the time you're going to be fine. The one time you're not and it's over.

And nobody can tell you, no, I'm not a parent here to nag you, put your seatbelt on, build a savings account. I can't do it, only you can. But when I see this, I feel extreme fear. I'm not afraid of a lot. I'm afraid of teenage girls because they're mean. And I'm afraid of big old insects, you know, that fly. Maybe roller coasters.

But I'm afraid of this. Because I know what can happen. I know that you're skating really close to the edge. And if something bad happens, especially with kids, you're in a loop. And it is really hard to get out of it. So that's how I feel. Let's talk about the debt for you LaKisha. You have $165,000 of debt. What is that? Student loans. Couldn't discharge those in bankruptcy. Okay we

know that. Thanks Republicans. Anyway how much is your interest rate on 165k? I'm going to be honest. I have no idea. I haven't even bothered to look. I'm in one of those income-based repayment plans. After seven more years, it'll all go away anyway. So. Oh, all right. That's actually really helpful to know.

And that explains why you're paying almost nothing towards it. Yes. Thank God. Because I was looking at these numbers like, what the hell is happening here? Yeah. Okay. Good to know.

Shall we continue moving along? Yes. Income, James, break it down for me. Let's get the combined monthly income. Gross monthly income combined is $12,453. James, did you know that you make $60,732 per year? That's horrible. Yes. That's an interesting response. We can work on that.

And then, Lakisha, did you know you make $88,704 a year? Yes. Okay. Both of you knew your income. Great. Combined you make $150k. That's kind of a lot, right? Yeah. I think it's good. Let's keep going. It doesn't look like either of you are doing too much pre-tax,

like 401K investments. Is that correct? That is correct. The place that I work for, they were just recently integrated. So it's going to be a new company where I have benefits. So now, starting 2025, we'll have 401k, have the option of getting the HSA. And so I wanted to max it out from the beginning. I told him as I was doing open enrollment, it was going to be like with insurance taxes, everything, it

was going to be like $900 out of my check. And he was he was like, what? No, like, and so I still open the account, but I put it as zero because I was told from the person that I couldn't change that amount later. Can I just say I want to and I had a conversation with James about that recently. And he was like, let's wait. Let's wait till when? James, why did you be act the way you did? First of all, it was the amount that she was trying to put away. And I would just wait till later until we get out of this hole that we're in.

It was basically the message I was trying to convey to her. Wait till what? James, you're 45 years old and you have zero savings and zero investments. How long you want to wait? I wasn't saying like don't ever do it or let's wait forever. There was just a large Chunk, but we at that point we were not living together yet as well. You want to me wasn't it her money? It was so what does your opinion really matter about her money any the show don't you're right? That's that's correct But do you do you all understand the dynamic that's at play right here?

I asked him. First of all, I even brought it to him and asked him what he thought about it instead of just doing it. Correct. Like a child. Yep. And then James thrust into this role, which he shouldn't be in. James has $26,000 of debt and zero savings too.

What's he talking about? And then he naturally just assumes the role. Oh, I think you should wait. What do you have to do with this decision? It's your money, LaKesha. You don't even live together at that point. But both of you are playing this dynamic. Parent-child.

Makes no sense. It's keeping you in a poor financial situation. Do you understand this? Yes. Yes. Yes. Let me break down why the parent-child money dynamic is absolutely toxic to relationships. First, your partner's not a child, and you're not going to get them to act like an adult by treating them like a child.

Number two, this dynamic is sexual kryptonite. Often the parent figure feels repulsed as a result of taking on the authority role. And this is not good for any relationship. The good news is there's a way to change the dynamic. When you treat an adult like an adult, you tell them what you expect and you set clear boundaries, you may be surprised how often they rise to the expectation. More on this in my new book, Money for Couples. We'll be right back after a short break.

Hosting this podcast and hosting a Netflix show, I have noticed a lot of patterns with couples and money. 50% of couples don't know their income. 90% of couples do not know how much debt they actually have, and most couples are not aware of how much they spend every month on subscriptions. Subscription creep is real, and if you are not monitoring your spending, it's really easy to pay for things you don't even use. If you're spending money on subscriptions that you don't even remember signing up for, you can take that money and redirect it to parts you really care about,

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This guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash ramith. NetSuite.com slash Ramit, netsuite.com slash Ramit. Welcome back. Let's keep going with our CSP. Let's continue moving along here. Let's look at your fixed costs. So what number do I typically recommend your fixed costs be? Between 50 and 60. Correct. James, did you know that?

She did tell me, yes. Okay, great. So at James, did you know that? She didn't tell me. Yes. Okay, great. So at 68, it's higher than it. I would like to see it, but it's not like 89. All right, we got some stuff we can play with. Let's just work our way down and then we'll go into the line items. Investments, zero. So, you know, you all know the way you're going. If you currently change nothing, you

will be living on like social security. You guys want to do that? No. It's not good. Savings are at zero. Not good. And then this is really interesting. Your guilt-free spending is 33%. Now, I don't believe these numbers, but I do believe they are a lot. Do you track your guilt-free spending carefully? Yes or no? No. No. No. At the end of the month is there any extra money? No. No. Okay so it's going it's going somewhere. What's it going towards? Amazon stuff? What else? Eating out. Eating out? Where you guys eat out? It's dependent on a week. We have pizza every Friday. Please don't say Domino's. No, no, no, no, no. They're the local plates. Bob's Pizza. We try like to try different pizza places

every Friday. So all right. When it's like we're in between paychecks, we'll go get a large pizza at Whole Foods. Hold on. Was that supposed to be like, we're so frugal. We got a pizza from Whole Foods. The hell's happening right now? Okay, this is amazing. Let me just tell you, my family, when we were heating out, which was not that often, once every six weeks, we're going to the pizza place with a coupon. And Whole Foods, I never walked into Whole Foods until I went to college. I walked right back out.

I'm like, this place isn't for me. Bye bye. I'll come back here. I'm like, this place isn't for me. Bye. Bye. I'll come back here in about 15 years. All right. Wow. We only get our pizza at Whole Foods. Amazing. Where else do you eat out? Pizza? What else? We said we were going to start going to Longhorn once a month. That's interesting. So the two of you talked about it and said, we want to do this once a month. That's the first time I've heard of planning. I like that.

On Wednesday we might go to Culver's. You know what I mean? What's that? Hamburger place. Okay. How much? Total bill. Bill, tip, tax, delivery, everything. We get the kids' meal. So it's about $24. Laughing and covering her mouth. Hold on. There's definitely a lie happening right now.

LaKesha? No, I just laugh because we definitely do get the kids meal. Like all three of us will get a kids meal. Okay. Because it comes with a free custard. We try to think about money. Please don't do this right now. Please don't try to justify the financial part of it. We've gotten two days out of a seven day week and I'm getting your life history about longhorns and the custard.

Just tell me where you eat out. That's all I want to know. Oh, okay. Culver's, Carol's Chicken. If it's all of us, man, we spend a good 40 to $50, you know. This is for how many people? You know, if my daughter's here, four and if she's not three. So that seems like how are you only spending $40 for four people eating out tax tip?

There's no way. Can we just read reset because something is not right. I don't mind if you're overspending. I can help you with that, but I can't help if you guys are lying to me or if you're lying to yourself. If we're going to the restaurant for pizza, last week I spent $140 something. Okay. That's reasonable.

On a weekly basis, I would say we probably spend at least $250 on eating out. How many times a week do you eat out? Three or four times a week. I was going to say the exact same number three to four times a week. Do a little exercise with me, okay? It's Sunday morning. We're going to go through the entire week. Do a little exercise with me, okay? It's Sunday morning. We're going to go through the entire week. Anybody eating out Sunday?

I'm talking coffee, lunch, brunch. Sunday we eat breakfast at home. How many times do you eat out on Sunday? Give me a number. About once, right? Once or twice because he always brings lunch home. And then dinner, depending on if we have groceries or not, we will eat out again on Sunday. Great. So is that two or three times on Sunday? At least two. Two times. Great.

Monday. What do we got? Oh, Monday. We don't usually eat out on Mondays. No. None? No. Coffee, croissant, whatever. None of it. Okay great Tuesday Tuesday if we have leftovers, we eat that on my house Don't if we pride if we don't have left over at least once let's say once. Yeah. All right Wednesday I would say once okay great Thursday Breakfast lunch dinner snack. I would say zero. I would say zero. Friday. Friday. Parted twice. Twice.

Alright. Saturday. Saturday. How much? Saturday. Parted twice. Twice? Anybody want to say three times?

LaKesha, what's that big smile on your face? Just to pay a week. Maybe three times. Let's say three. Alright. Now, I don't know if you've ever heard of Ramit Sethi's magic number of eating out. Have you ever heard this number? No.

The number goes like this. Take whatever a couple tells you and triple it and you will get the real number. And guess what your number happens to be? Six. Nine. Nine. Exactly three times what you told me. What do you make of that?

First of all, am I getting a round of applause for this? I freaking invented this. I'll take the win for myself. It's my podcast. That's pretty amazing, don't you think? Yeah, it is. It is. And are you a little surprised? You thought it was three times and it's nine times a week? This is true. I'm shocked. I am. So whatever number you told me, we spent $250 a week, you better triple that right away. Does this tell you if we zoom out about your entire financial picture? We don't know where our money is going. That's correct. What else?

We need to plan. Yes, love that. But James, I love your answer, but I notice again, you go towards the future. We need to change we change you're not gonna change unless you actually can Diagnose and analyze what is happening today. You cannot move forward unless you stick with the present and Understand it. So give me that answer We don't plan we don't plan agreed. Would you say that you are impulsive with your spending? Yes, okay good. And do you have like some good say that you are impulsive with your spending? Yes.

Okay, good. And do you have like some good stories that you tell yourselves about why we need to go out tonight? Of course. We're busy. If you went into this whole thing about time management, I don't believe it. So do you see that if we ended the call right now, what do you think would happen with your money?

It will continue to be the same old, same old. I agree. LaKesha? We would continue to live in the way that we are and feel like we don't know where it's going or why we don't have enough for our future selves. Yeah. When the answer is there. What is the answer?

We're spending it now. Yeah. What are you spending it now. Yeah. What are you spending it on? Things we don't need to. Yes, that's true. But I don't love that answer. I would say you're spending your money unconsciously.

You're not spending it on your rich life. If I asked the two of you, what is your rich life? Would you have told me eating out nine times a week is in our rich life? No. No. Absolutely not. What would you have said instead as it relates to eating out? Getting a chef once a month.

Okay, that would be nice. Probably not in the financial position to do that today. So what is your rich life today as it relates to eating out? Keeping it to maybe once or twice a month. If we could hold on to a specific place that we know we want to eat out at, then I think that would make it more meaningful. I like that. I like the idea of a meaningful meal together. If I were in your situation, I might say our rich life is having one day each month where we all go out as a family and have a great meal,

and we all share a dessert together, and we appreciate it. What do you notice about that? It's goal oriented. If we tried to go outside of that one time, it would make us go back to that, like this isn't the one time that we're supposed to go. It would give us something to hold ourselves accountable to. We're waiting for that.

Yeah. It's slowing down and creating the life you want. It's not life happening to you. Oh, we're busy so we stopped at this place and oh, we got that thing. And it's around the family. So the whole thing about we're gonna do one time with our family, that's so beautiful because it allows the family to talk about it.

Maybe one of your kids gets to choose this month and the other gets to choose the next month. It becomes a whole thing. And the thing about sharing a dessert, like when I was a kid, we never got dessert. So forget about that. But okay, it's hard to go from 36 times to one time. We're gonna have to talk about that. But the fact of being able to share this and appreciate it, this is what we can do right now.

I hope that in the future, we can each have our own dessert. We can each do more. Basically, there's a way to create meaning out of restraint. You see that? Yeah. Yes. Do you ever say no to spending money? I feel guilty about it sometimes. So, okay. I absolutely do.

Okay, you say no and then what do you do with the money that you didn't spend? Buy something else to spend. That's not great. I know right. You feel guilty about spending it, but then you just spend it anyway. What's that about? I'll probably spend on something that I say I need. If we don't have nothing to eat in the house, I'll go get something to eat or something like that or put gas in the car. Okay? LaKeisha, what about you? If I say no to spending, it's because it's not there.

So you know how parents would say, no, we don't have money for that or whatever. It will be a legit like, no, we really don't have it. So if I say no, it's because it's not there usually as opposed to I don't want to spend it on whatever that thing is. Okay, so can I ask you again, when was the last time you told your daughter no when it came to spending money?

She doesn't ask for things a lot. Like yesterday when we went to Target, I feel like that's why I was more compelled to say, okay, it was an $11 sweatshirt. It was cute. She doesn't ask for things a lot. So I said, yes. Okay. What do you spend your money on like, Kisha?

88,000 bucks a year. Stuff. That's the best word I can think of to describe what I spend my money on stuff. What, what are we talking about? I like buying things for the home a lot. So decor. And I love to DIY stuff.

Like make t-shirts or sew things. So I have a lot of crashed items as well. That's what I like spending on. All right, shall we look at the fixed costs and go through the line items? Let's do it. Alright, let's take a look. So your rent is 16% if we combine it. How are you splitting your money now that you are living together? So I give her the thousand dollars is what I give her towards her rent.

Okay. And why is that? Well, it's a number she came up with, well came up with together. Since she does make a little bit more than me, we thought that would be a fair amount. Wait, she makes more than you, but you're paying more for rent. How does that make sense?

Let me tell you how this conversation went. I'm going to tell you exactly how it went. He asked what number would I like for him to contribute and I said how much can you and he said, I don't know, I was thinking of what if I gave you 500 each paycheck and that could go towards rent or, you know, part on utilities or whatever and then like everything else will kind of figure out as time goes like stuff like groceries and gas and stuff like that. So that's how that conversation went like almost verbatim.

And do you all feel good about this? No, I'm good with the number. I don't feel good about how it happened because I feel like there was nothing we like date or looked at in order to come to that conclusion. It was just an abstract number. But that's like that's the way that both of you are living your financial lives. Right? I don't want to. Oh, I agree. I don't want that either.

I want to show you how to start using numbers effectively. But what you just did was it's such a common conversation that couples have. It's like, what do you want to do? Here's what I feel comfortable with. I'm like, feelings? Why the hell are we... Why are we talking about feelings right now? I want to talk about cold hard numbers.

Talk to me about ratios. Talk to me about percentages. This is the stuff I need right now. And it's a lot of like, I don't know. How about you? This is so common. So let me show you a different way. Okay, I get it. Figuring out how to divide costs when you move in with... Okay, I get it. Figuring out how to divide costs when you move in with a partner can be overwhelming. But it doesn't have to. Okay, I get it. When you move in

with a partner and you try to divide costs for the first time, it can feel overwhelming. But it doesn't have to be. Up next, I'm going to show LaKesha and James what to consider when making this decision. We'll be back after a short break. In my 20s, I wasn't really thinking about the food that I was eating. I didn't know about nutrition. It wasn't something on the top of my mind.

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at trustandwill.com slash Ramit and get 10% off plus free shipping. That's 10% off and free shipping at trustandwill.com slash Rameen. Let's get back to the conversation now. Right now, if you break down your money, you have lots of ways to do it. You can just combine everything, which married couples often do, and I think in general it's a good idea. You could split it 50-50, which would make no sense,

but some people just think that 50-50 is fair. Or you could do it proportionally. Now proportionally actually works out really well because, Lakeisha, you make 60% and he makes 40% if you break down the numbers. So the way that that works is basically for any joint expenses, James pays 40% and Lakeisha pays 60%. How does everybody feel about that? Yes. I feel great about that. Okay. Let's make a couple changes here. So let's take

your rent and that would mean you, Lakeisha, pay $10.50. And let's just watch what happens here. That means James, you pay $700. Wow. Big changes happening already. So already what we can see is that the, look at the fixed costs for each person. They went 57% for James, but now Lakeisha's at 75%. Lakeisha, what were you doing before James was contributing to the rent?

Drowning. Yeah. I filled this out alone months ago and sent it to him. My CSP, I think my number for fixed costs was in the 90s. You're spending too much. We're about to see that. Are you only spending $400 a month on groceries? This is way lower than I normally see, especially for a family with kids, right?

Okay. Normally I would see like 800 to 1200 bucks. Oh, no. We're definitely not spending that much. for a family with kids, right? Okay. Normally I would see like 800 to 1200 bucks. Oh no, we're definitely not spending that much. I am a coupon shopper. Our total at the grocery store yesterday went from 231 to 190 after coupon. I don't think that groceries are going to stay at 400. I don't think it's possible. Candidly. I'd like to adjust up because I hear a couple of times the two of you mentioned like we didn't have food so we went out. Like that's just not acceptable. It's not. When you have high fixed costs there will never be a day where you quote run out of food and go and have to get restaurant food. It just

makes no sense. Especially not making $150,000 joint. Okay. So, one of the things I talk about in my book, Money for Couples, I want to show you, it's coming out, is creating a family culture. In our family, we... For example, in our family, we have a no debt policy. That's part of our culture.

What would it be for you? Our family only eats out once a month. I love that. But give it to me with a little bit more meaning behind it. Because right now it feels like a little bit dreary. Give it to me in a way that's meaningful for your family. Our family only eats out once a month. I like it. It was theatrical. But give me something else.

Lakisha, you want to help him out? In our family, if we can't pay for it outright, we don't buy it. That's good. And that's not something we're doing. Okay. Can we stick with the dining thing? I just want to show you an example of actually making something fun and not dreary.

So it would be like, in our family, a special family dinner once a month, we rotate who chooses, and we all share one dessert which we appreciate. That's how I would say it, but your family's got your own culture, so you'd say something a little different. Yeah, I got it.

In our family, we have one evening that we are all together and we share a meal and a dessert and conversation. Love it. Beautiful. That's a rich life. I love that. Let's keep going. I'm moving your groceries up to 800 because you're gonna need groceries.

There's a line on here, row 20 now. I believe I invented the conscious spending plan and I don't recall putting in a line, row 20, called cigars and alcohol. What the f*** is this? That was f***ed. 200 bucks from one person and 250 from another? Is this a joke? I think that's a roundabout amount. Oh, is it higher? No. I definitely have not spent as much as I usually would spend on cigars. How much do you usually spend?

Six months ago, I was at probably at least $300 a month for cigars. But there's just cigars with alcohol. I would say probably about $300 a month for cigars. But it's just cigars. With alcohol, I would say probably about $500 a month. Okay. What are you drinking? Bourbon. All right. And LaKeisha's over here smiling like I'm not gonna call on her next.

LaKeisha? What next? What about you? I like wine. Are you in the cigars thing too? Nope, that's all. So what do y'all think? I mean, I know what you think is like,

Ramit's about to come down and drop the f***ing hammer. If you want to do it, you could do it. Can I be very honest with both of you right now? I think you came to me because you want help. And I respect you. I respect your time. And I am going to raise my expectations for both of you. Okay?

You have zero dollars in savings. You have Okay? You have zero dollars in savings. You have kids. You have zero dollars in investments. Right now you're at 73% on your fixed costs. There's just no world where it's okay and where I'm gonna buy any of these stories about we're actually doing better, I just need to be more conscious.

This is all BS. And you know it. The thing is you want me to make the change for you. You want me to come in here and be like, stop it, guys. And then you can be like, I know, we should try better. We have been trying better. I'm not gonna play that game. That's what both of you want.

I'm not gonna do it. If you wanna keep doing it, you can do it. It's your money, it's your rich life. The fact is, you have no savings and no investment. One illness, one problem with your kids, one car accident and you are out of the game. And at 38 and 45 there's very hard to get back in it. So I guess what I'm asking you is are you ready to take this seriously? What do you want to do? I want to do the best and we're not doing our

best. All right let's do it then but it it's going to be you doing it, not me. So here's what I'm doing. I'm turning over control of the CSPDU. Your goal is to get this number down to 60%. Tell me how you want to do it. I'll make any changes you tell me. I'm just the executor. But the only rule is you have to each do one thing

and toss the ball back to each other. Go ahead. I guess the line for cigars and alcohol, we can change it to $100 each. Can I ask you a question? James, do you think you should be spending money on alcohol and cigars when you are in $26,000 of debt? No. So, okay. So, no. Okay. What's happening right now? You're a grown man. Why do I have to tell you this? You already

know. Is it that you are waiting like your dad looked over your shoulder and he was like Are you sure you need that and you allowed yourself to be put in that child position that you're now waiting for me to do that? When we talked you said that you know Sometimes you you feel like that if I work hard if I do this I deserve at least one Cigar every other day or something like that. So that's what's in my mind. Has that approach worked for you? It has not, no.

So do you want to keep the same approach and hope that it magically changes? No. I think before we go into all these numbers, you all need to decide, like, how do we want to show up right now? Like imagine here I am like trying to run track or something. I'm running the 400.

And every time I go out there, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired. Life sucks. It's so hot. My shoelaces. And I just keep losing. And then my coach pulls me aside and says, listen, you actually have pretty good skills, but how have you been showing up? I'm like, I'm kind of a downer.

I'm always complaining. And he goes, how do you want to show up? How would I what how would I answer it? You want to show up to win show up to win? What's my attitude gonna be like let's do this. Let's do this. That's right. Motivated Exactly and all the stories I used to tell myself if only this one guy wasn't here I'm with those stories are gone. I got a new story for myself. I deserve to win So how do you guys want to show up as we're about to get into this CSP? Motivated.

Motivated. Love it. Let's do it. Here we go. James first. What do you want to do? Take out the alcohol and cigars. All right, take it out. I'm zeroing out alcohol and cigars. I want you to look at this number as I go down the list. This is your fixed cost number. It's at 73%. Our goal is to get it to 60. Here we go cigars zero and

Zero, what do we see that number change to? 67 percent 67 percent Alright, we're going in the right direction. What else I would like to change the Child support college students to zero for right now explain this to me. What else? I would like to change the child support college students to zero for right now. Explain this to me. What is this category? I was sending my niece and my daughter $50 every two weeks, but they're both employed. They don't necessarily need it. They never asked for it. I just wanted to

do something. Love it. So that's what I was doing. I love your niece and kids and everything. Give him a big hug next time you see him. But the checks have stopped. All right. 200 bucks. That's zero. And what's his child support for 600? That's James, right?

Yeah, that's legal. I have to pay that. Legal. We're keeping that. Okay, great. Let's keep it. The number is 65%. Oh my God. We're making better progress than I thought. Toss the ball back, LaKeisha.

Toss it to him. I guess miscellaneous can change to $100 for each. I like that. Can I tell you what is in that category? So I include miscellaneous. It's 15% of all your other stuff. I found another magic number, which is 15% is typically how much people don't think about for their fixed costs.

That would be things like something breaks in your house or a car repair you didn't plan for. So I add in 15%. Now, here's the thing. When you have a very financially healthy position, you should actually be putting that money aside. And then at the end of the year, you can make a little rule, oh, we didn't spend

it, let's invest most of it, spend it, whatever. The fact is you can't have $793 a month in miscellaneous costs. It's just out of control for your abilities right now. That means you've got to be tighter, more intentional. Okay. So we're going to reduce it, but what are the implications for the two of you? If we reduce it, then to your point, we need to, when you scroll down, then we need to plan for those miscellaneous things happening and being more proactive instead

of reactive. That's exactly right. Boom, you nailed it. So let's do it. Watch what happens to the number. It's gonna be quite amazing. We're changing the $300 to $100 miscellaneous and we're changing the $493 to $100. What's that number? Wow. 59%. 59%. Give yourselves a round of applause. That's really good. Well done. Honestly, I'm amazed. This is incredible Keep in mind we have increased your grocery stent Wow by a lot by double that's amazing now Let me ask you this who cooks at home if food gets cooked. I usually cook it. Wow. Wow, okay How often does food get cooked probably Probably three to four times a week.

That actually seems to me like a pretty big deal. Because let's just say, let's round down on this one. Let's say it gets cooked twice a week. So let's say one night everybody comes home, they're tired, and there's no food cooked. What's everybody going to end up doing immediately? If we're spending this much on groceries, there's going to always be food here.

And me personally, if there's food here, I's going to always be food here. And me personally, if there's food here, I'm going to make something. I'm not going to buy something. It's going to be by the time I place an order and go pick up or before it's delivered, I could have made something already. So if there's food here, then I'm going to go to see what I could throw together. I kind of love your answer. And I love the attitude you had when you answered that. Just like, I'm gonna make it. When there's food here, I'm known for it. That's amazing. That's the attitude that I want to bring to the money.

I'll tell you my example. When there's extra money, I'm going to invest it. I'm known for investing extra money. That's, like, we can bring that same attitude to different parts of our life. So, anyway, I just wanted to point out, I'm struck by how awesome that attitude was right there. And that energy, so you have it in you. I just want to see us bring it to other parts of life. Anything else on fixed costs?

We got this phone bill. Who's y'all paying for your kids' phone bills here? I am. Yeah, so there's four lines. My line, my two daughters, and my niece. So I raised my niece from like seventh grade through high school. That's awesome. Do you want to keep paying for her phone?

Yes, I do. Okay, fine. James, what about you? $125 a month, what's that? That's just me. I got this phone on there right now. Pinned on this phone. Subscriptions are at $110. Any duplicates you all can cancel since you're living together?

Absolutely. We could definitely do that. Let's make a change right now. How much? What's your gym membership? $33 a month. And so I have like peacock and things like that, but I can get rid of that. So for my part, I can just change that to 33 for my gym membership. 33. Love it. And for you, LaKeisha? I think you should leave it at 60.

All right, fine. So you have 58%, which is within the 50 to 60 percent for fixed costs. I think that part is good. But now we need to get pretty aggressive because you are 38 and 45. You have zero savings and zero investments. You all can live a rich life, but it's up to you how hard you want to push it. And I want to show you an example so you really start to understand the numbers here. Lakeisha and James have said they want to plan to move forward, which I love to hear.

And that's what I'm about to give them. But as you heard James say earlier, he's scared when it comes to investing. And this is common for people who don't understand how investing works. I'm about to show them how easy investing can be and how impactful it can be. We'll get to that after a quick pause to support our sponsors. I just got back from my book tour where I was doing stage events in theaters all over the country. Now, can you imagine? We got this intro rolling. We got me, Netflix clip, and then I walk out with some ill fitting baggy ass suit.

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Elevate your style at nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit. That's nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit. That's nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit. Let's get back to the conversation. Pick a number. How much do you all think that you should invest every month? 20% of our income. Okay, cool. So 20% of your, shall we say, gross income or net income?

Gross. Gross, okay. Love it. Wow, aggressive. So that's $1478 a month for you, LaKeisha. So let's just put it right here. Okay, wow, good. That's 27% of net or 20% of gross. Cool. What about for you, James? Pick a number. I guess I match hers to 20% of gross. Cool. What about for you, James? Pick a number. I guess I match ours to 20% of gross. All right. Let's go ahead and do the same thing just to see what happens. That's going to be about a thousand bucks a month. All right. So right now you basically dropped

your amount that you can spend a lot every month. Your guilt-free spending, you actually don't have that much money left over. So the more we put here in your savings, you know where that money's coming from? Money we spend now. The money you spend eating out and what else? Shopping. Yeah.

You all can save money. I'll show you how much you're going to have, but that money comes from somewhere and it would come from eating out and shopping. Is that a surprise to you or is that something you expected? No. I know that is gonna take some type of sacrifice to get to where we need to get to. I like that. How come you haven't done it before? It goes back to a lot of the things like you said we wasn't thinking about our future selves not only that but since we've met each other,

I think we want to be better for each other so we can have a better future. I like that. What do you think, Pekisha? It just feels different to be doing this with someone else that has the same goal in mind. That's what makes this feel different. So you don't feel like you're sacrificing alone.

It's really difficult to be the only person in a relationship who's carrying the weight and sometimes your partner is unengaged or sometimes they're actively working against you. You know, it's like I'm trying to save money and then my partner's like, hey, come on, it's Friday, let's go out. How are you supposed to deal with that? It's like constant temptation in the house. But on the other hand, if the two of you have a bigger vision, then what are we doing this week becomes very powerful.

So let's take a look at the compound interest, how much you're going to have. Right now you have zero, your annual addition, if we were to do just the number we picked out. It's an aggressive goal, but let's just see what happens. $29,736 a year. Years to grow. How many years should we say? 25. James you're 45 right? Yes. Let's say 20 first and then we can see what happens if we wait five more years. Okay. Interest rate of 7%. Let's just go ahead. Anybody want to guess how much you're gonna have? 1.3 million. OK, James? Let's go with 1 million. 1.3 million. Damn.

LaKesha, that was an excellent guess. OK, so what does 1.3 million mean to you? I won't be broke when I retire. And I'm not only won't be broke, I just will be able to enjoy retiring. How much will you be able to enjoy your retirement? Give to enjoy retirement. How much will you be able to enjoy retirement? Like, give me a number. How much will you be living on?

Maybe $65,000 maybe. All right. Not a bad guess. So we're going to use something called the 4% rule. It's not perfect. Scoot back with a napkin. We're going to take that number, multiply it by.04. That means you'll have about $52,000 per year.

There might be some benefits. You might have some social security. I think that's for sure. And do y'all own or rent? Rent. Rent. Okay, so you're going to have housing costs at that time and they will likely continue going up. We'll see.

So how do y'all feel about living on $52,000 a year? No. That's not going to get it. That's not going to do it. Oh, what about Longhorns? You see, the choices we make today directly affect what we do tomorrow. So if you really consider it and you break it down, the nine meals a week out, literally costing tens and tens of thousands of dollars. Now, if you can afford it, I got no problem.

You love good food, I love it too. But the problem is right now you're not on a sustainable path. And this assumes nothing bad happens. No layoffs, no injuries, not everything's perfect. Let's keep looking. There's another thing I want to point out if we wait 25 years. Because something really powerful happens then. Well, James might have to work long.

I would hate to put James in that position, but let's just take a look. At 25 years instead of 1.3 million, you're at 2 million. What? That's crazy, right? I understand compound interest, but I did not think it would go up that much just from five years. Oh, you don't think so? You want to see what happens at 30? Watch this. This is just five more years. 3 million. Do you understand that it took roughly 18 or so years to get to a million?

Then it took a few more years to get to two million, and then five years to get to three million? What does this tell you? We can't do anything about the past, the time site, but we should have started years ago. Yes. And what should we talk about right now? We need to start today. Exactly.

Like today. Exactly. Like today. Exactly. Do you see why I was so alarmed at this $900 like, oh, let's talk about it. Let me ask for permission. Why put yourself in that role? Asking somebody who candidly does not know about investing. You got to decide each of you for yourself what kind of life you're going to live.

We could talk about the marriage and like marriage, staying together, living together, all that stuff. But regardless, each of you is getting older. You have to take action regardless of what the other person does. Do you see that directly in the math? Yes. Lekisha, you see it. James, what's going on with you? What are you feeling right now? I just want to check in with you. The numbers are shocking. We have to do something. That's a good answer. We have to do something. I love that. We have to make a change. Now I want to point out, I want to caveat some of this because if you all were investing $29,000 a year for 25 years you could get to 2 million bucks. And if we take that number and run the 4% on that, that's $80,500 a year.

That's good. That's nice. Solid. That's accounting for inflation, by the way. Plus we add on PowerMuch for Social Security. That's nice. Okay, cool. The problem is you really can't afford to invest $30,000 a year.

Do you know why? Why? Anybody tell me what's completely blank on the CSP? Savings. Yeah. What's savings for? Emergencies. And right now you have no emergency fund.

You also have no money set aside for a new car, a vacation, somebody graduating, none of it. So we need to build that money up and we need to do it fast. Because if one of you gets in financial trouble, you are in really, really bad trouble. So we have a limited amount of money here. How do we want to allocate it? Maybe if we did 20% net as opposed to gross. What's my recommendation for the conscious spending plan for savings?

It's five to 10%. Okay. Why don't we start there? Notice I just typed in 500 just to see that's 13% of James's net income. So that's too high. So James can afford to do like 200 bucks a month. Do you all see why I was so alarmed

with the cigars and alcohol and like their negotiation? It's like, what are we even talking about? We have nothing in savings. We can't be talking about cigars. What this shows is that, James, you currently have $517 per month to spend guilt-free spending. And Lakisha, you have $385 per month

to spend guilt-free spending. Now, what do you think of these numbers? I don't know. That's better than probably what we were doing. No, you were spending thousands per month. Right. So that's way better. Yeah. Let's stop using better and worse. Okay? Let's stop putting moral judgments on spending money.

That's an old way of thinking. Because think about it. What you're saying, James, andKeisha, you've also said this. You've both kind of said like, I've been bad. Have you noticed that? As in spending money is bad? That's something that people tell their kids, that's bad, don't put that back.

The thing is, you both have said like, I've been bad. But you're spending all your money. You're literally spending more than you make. You're spending thousands eating out. So it's not even working by telling yourselves I've been bad. Let's stop talking about money like that. And let's instead start talking about what is our rich life. So no more good and bad spending more or less has nothing to do with that. It's all about here are the numbers. How do we want to allocate our money within those numbers?

Lakisha, what does it feel like to see that you have $385 a month to spend guilt free? Well, the amount doesn't feel good. It feels good to know that that's what I'm working with and that's what I can work out of. It's almost like an allowance. When you were a child and you had an allowance, once you spent it, that was it. You didn't have a credit card or anything to fall back on. Once it was gone, it was gone. So if I feel like that's my allowance, then I know that. I have a number that I can go back to as opposed to thinking that this whole check is at my disposal. I could do

with it what I want. I think it's good to set boundaries for yourself. And I think at this stage, it's good to have these bumper lanes. You need some guidance right now. Because obviously just having that entire check just sit in your checking account is not working for you. How are you going to deal with the feeding out? If the two of you only have like 500 and hundred bucks a month. We definitely got to reduce that

Do you all see how it works together? Yeah, you can't actually go out to eat Nine times a week anymore or 36 times a month It's kind of funny when you put it that way, right? It's like you were eating out more than once per day So there's just no money for it. You don't have to try there's just no money for it. You don't have to try. There's just no money for it. That's it. The money's gone. It's moved to a savings account. It's gone to an investment account. It's just not there anymore. So now what happens if somebody's tired on a Thursday night and they're like, I don't want to eat this raw celery. Let's go to Ben's Pizza. What are you all going to say? Nope. No. And then what if one person goes, I'll pick it up?

If I don't have room out of my 387, then I'm not going to do it. Yeah. All right. I like it. That was a pretty good answer. I like that. I think probably just watch out for becoming the police of the other person's finances. Right? You don't want that. I think you probably need to recalibrate your relationship. I talk a lot about money dynamics in money for couples. And parent-child is one that we notice here.

And that's going to have to be changed. Like even asking for permission for your own 401k, it just like makes no sense. Looking over someone's shoulder and saying like, do you need that? That also makes no sense. Looking over someone's shoulder and saying like, do you need that? That also makes no sense. It also strips the other person of their own individuality. We don't want that. We need each of you to stand up on your own before you can effectively be a team. So have you thought about

that? Have you thought about the role of money in your relationship moving forward? That's one of the biggest reasons we wanted to get on with you. I'm so inexperienced with dealing with, or even having a role of money in a relationship. And he has had some bad experience. And so I feel like given those perspectives, we knew that we needed help outside of ourselves. I'm so glad you reached out. Here's my observation. I think that because I look

at the two of you at 38 and 45 with no savings and no investments, it's clear that there's a lot of love. And I love the compromises that the two of you are talking about. I love that I'm challenging, I'm pushing you on the eating out and the cigars and the rolls and you're with me. You're staying with me. This is hard stuff. You're staying with me.

I appreciate that. If I were in your shoes, what I would want to see for both of you would be for each of you to become financially skilled before you were to move forward and combine anything. That would be my own personal opinion. Why do I say that? Because right now, your finances are not in great shape. You've started, hopefully, this proportional combination, which I think will be much more fair for joint expenses.

But if you were to get married and combine everything, I think it would probably be a bad situation right now. Do you agree? I agree 100%. And James? Yes. Oh, amazing. Okay, we're all on the same page.

That is because each of you doesn't yet individually have the skills to manage money. As you start this journey, you're gonna realize some things are gonna come up. Like, oh my gosh, like one of us is sticking to the plan and the other one is looser. How are we gonna navigate that? One of us can't to the plan and the other one is looser. How are we gonna navigate that? One of us can't get things paid on time, the other can, etc.

etc. And that's okay. Not everyone's gonna be perfect the first time, but you've got to get on solid foundation. And I would be specific. I would say look, before we get married, I want each of us to have X thousand dollars in our savings account. Like I want X thousand dollars in our savings account. Like, I want X thousand dollars in our investment account. Pick a number that's reasonable based on what we have decided here. It shows a commitment to excellence. And I don't know about you, like, I want excellence for myself. My wife wants it. We want it for each other.

To have savings and investments seems pretty straightforward. It doesn't seem too crazy to me. What do you all think? I agree. What's up? Yeah. I want to revisit something Lakisha said in the previous episode, which is important to acknowledge now knowing that the two of them are creating a new path. Lakisha said that she has wanted to fire her therapist for over a year, but she hasn't

done it. I want to know why she dragged out this decision that is seemingly straightforward. Can we talk about this therapist for a second? LaKeisha, is this a different therapist than James? Yes, different therapist. And you want to fire them? How come you haven't? I don't know. I've been working with her for a while and so I just feel weird. Okay. So it's just like an uncomfortable conversation?

It is. It's uncomfortable conversation to be honest with you until you said it. I never thought about just sending an email saying like, hey, I don't want to do this anymore or I'm firing you. I don't even know how to begin having that conversation to be honest. I don't mind that. But can I ask you, like, how do you think your inability to switch therapists is affecting your finances?

I have no idea. I never even thought of it. I never made a connection between the two at all. What do you think it means that you cannot fire a free therapist, free to you? What does it mean? What does it say about you? I avoid conflict. Yes, free to you. What does it mean? What does it say about you? I avoid conflict. Yes, you avoid conflict. And so how do you avoid conflict with your money? File for bankruptcy.

Yeah. Which I've done. Which you've done? Yeah. Didn't change anything with your spending, did it? No. You avoid being decisive with your money. Instead, you try to get buy-in from everybody and ask people who should have no business telling you

what to do with your money, you ask them for their advice. Right? Yeah. Conflict, avoid it at all costs. And when I say all costs, I mean literally it's costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Same thing. Inability to be decisive, to make a decision

for your own wellbeing, for your own mental health is the same way you are not prioritizing your own well-being, for your own mental health, is the same way you are not prioritizing your own financial well-being. This is why having uncomfortable conversations is not an optional skill. It is required in this world. Required. You can't get by. You can't be successful if you can't have uncomfortable conversations.

You can try to say, can I get out of it? Which you have. Okay. Any surprises about that conversation we just had about your therapist? Never made a connection between the avoidant behavior there and here. Yeah, a lot.

And I actually think a really good therapist will help you make those connections. I don't know this therapist, I'm not qualified to make a judgment about them. But sometimes people are great. They're just not a good fit for you. I've had that. I probably had people who said like,

Ramid seems like he knows what he's talking about, but I just don't like the guy. That's okay. There's lots of other likable people out there. But I want you to put yourself first. Your financial health, mental health, relationship health. You can kind of see that it's not all firing on alt cylinders because I can see it on the CSP.

Now we got to talk about the bankruptcy. We've mentioned Lakeisha's bankruptcy a few times now, but we haven't gotten into detail. Now that we've identified that Lakeisha avoids conflict, I want to talk about how she made the decision to file for bankruptcy. What happened? You charged a bunch of stuff up? Yes. Basically had a lot of different debt, credit cards, loans, all of it. And I did this money coaching program.

Hold on. It wasn't IWT.com slash money coaching. No, no, no, it was not. Money coaching by Ramit Sethi. No. Who was it by? I hate to put them out there like this. It's called Thriving. Let's just look at their website together.

Wow, that's a friendly looking man on there. Financial advice with purpose. We believe everyone deserves a financial plan. Oh, f**k. All right. Hold on. First thing we want to look at is our solutions. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I see a word that's a big red flag. On the right it says, explore multi-year guarantee annuities. Oh, f**k. Let's just click over to annuities which are kryptonite for most people. Not all, but most. What is an annuity?

Blah, blah, blah. Variable annuity? You're f***ed. Right here I would be like, I'm out. I don't want to talk to somebody selling a variable annuity because it's a f***ed investment. It's horrible. The only person that benefits from this is the salesperson. All right.

I'm going to look at this later. Okay. So what? This was offered for free through your workplace? Not through my workplace. I think it was something that maybe was like an ad or something that popped up when I was scrolling on Instagram or something. Did you get taken to this page, which is the biggest red flag of all?

Look at the insurance page. No. No. All life, universal and variable. There's so many red flags on this page. But again, how would the average person know? They don't know what these red flags are. They go, sounds good to me. All right. So you signed up with them and they told you what? Declare bankruptcy?

And talking about that and where my money was going. I feel like in a lot of ways it was like, okay, so what can you do to change this? Basically, like, what can you do to get out of this situation? Hold on. Who said that? They said that to you or you said that to them? No, they said that to me. And I said, I don't know. That's pretty much like why I'm here. I'm trying to figure it out.

And I did not see a path forward as a result of that conversation to pay off the debt. When I said bankruptcy, the person said, well, I don't see what other choices you have. And shortly after that conversation, I filed. Do you remember how much debt you had at the time? Somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000. You had $30,000 in debt and you declared bankruptcy and was it accepted? Yes. 30K? We could knock that out so fast. Do you realize that now?

Yes, I realized that while we were going through it I even said to James like I was like I don't even know why I did this from the moment I filed and started the process to it actually being discharged It was months in between and so at multiple times I felt silly about doing it. Why didn't you speak up? Do you know why? I had already started it. I did. I avoiding conflict didn't want to. Yes. Yes. Wait, stay there with me. Avoiding conflict, putting some sales rep ahead of your own self.

Do you see that? I do. some sales rep ahead of your own self. Do you see that? I do. Do you see how that has affected you to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars? And it is intertwined with the inability to get rid of this therapist, which could be knocked out by tonight,

which has affected so many other things, including your own investments. Do you see that? Yes. What is your conclusion from that? I need to face conflict and learn how to have difficult conversations. Yes.

And what about yourself and your finances? That I have to face it. I can't avoid it. I can't run from it. I have to deal with my finances head on. Yeah, I agree. If I asked your kids what they have learned about money from their mom, what would they say? Two things come to mind, which are both not great. How to spend it or nothing. And let's say I asked them, what do you mean how to spend it? What would they say?

They both think that I shop a lot. So if you want something, buy it. I do think that they think and feel like I work hard. So work hard, get money, and then spend it on the things you like and want to do. I think that they feel like that's how I live and treat money. Do they know that you have no savings and no investments? No. What do you think they're going to think when they hear this?

They're probably going to be surprised. Fortunately and unfortunately, I do feel like for my youngest daughter, she might feel a sense of urgency as it relates to having to rely on like a scholarship or something to go to college. Luckily, my oldest daughter, she was able to get a full ride. So I think in a lot of ways they will feel like there's no safety net. They got to figure it out. I think that's true. Do you accept that? There is no safety net for them. No, I don't want it to be like that. I didn't have one.

I don't want that for them. But that is the case. That is reality right now. And if we're talking about investing aggressively and saving, there is not a safety net for your 14 year old or 11 year old in the near future. It's just not there. I'm sharing this because I often say in order to live a rich life, you have to be honest, honest with yourself and honest with the people

around you. This is avoiding the tough conversations and in your case with yourself. Can you accept that there will be no safety net for them? No. Okay. Then what are you willing to do about it? Whatever I need to. Just like I would do whatever I need to do right now today for them, I have to do that for the future, for them in the future as opposed to just today. 24 hours ago, you spent 50 unnecessary dollars at Target.

So I hear you saying it, but I don't see the behavior matching it. What could you do to have your behavior match the very powerful message you just shared with me about willing to do anything for your kids? Change my behavior and be transparent about those changes. Love it. With them. What about the shopping? Stop. I don't need any more clothes. transparent about those changes. Love it. With them. What about the shopping?

Stop. I don't need any more clothes. Like, even what I bought yesterday. I don't need that. What are you going to do with those? I don't even know. No, like, what are you going to do with it? I could return it.

Are you? Wow, this is interesting. No, I'm just thinking. I guess because I, in my mind, I thought if I returned it, I would get what? 25 bucks back. Where would I put that? In the grand scheme of things, what would that help? And I don't know the answer to that question. How would I approach it? Unless put it in your investment account.

Yeah. I would have a rule. When I have unexpected money, here's how the money flows. And because I'm behind on investing, I would put the majority of it towards investing. I'll put the second part of it towards savings. And I might keep, you know, 5% for guilt-free spending. But I don't have time for uncertainty. I don't have time to be indecisive. And 25 bucks actually starts to add up to a lot. Considering the amount of clothes you've talked about,

I'm candidly shocked that you're not willing to be decisive about returning clothes that you bought last night. James, any thoughts? No, I totally agree with you. This is where a partner can be really strong. Or a partner can say, you know what? I see you. I know that's hard for you. I think $25 goes a long way and I'm inspired by seeing you take these small steps. Gosh, you're getting me to think about taking small steps with my money. Maybe I can return something from my closet.

Do you see how partners can make each other bigger and better? That's pretty cool. It's a cool opportunity. One partner is struggling, the other steps up. Hey, I love you. You could do this. We got a vision together. Absolutely. What do you think? LaKisha? Honestly, I know I do want to return it like tonight. Go back to Target.

Oh, yeah. Here you go. Maybe send Jason. Yeah, I'll send him with three seats. But yeah, I feel that. James, what would your kids say about you as it relates to money? What lessons have they learned? Maybe since she doesn't live with me, she sees me spend on her.

You know what I mean? When she's with me and when she asks me for things. So maybe, maybe I need to change and tell her no. When was the last time you told her no? I told her no last week. Matter of fact, just here, maybe Friday, she had called me and asked me for some money. It was more of I just sent your mom some child support so I might give her your money. Can I make a suggestion?

Yes. Maybe there's a better way of talking to her about money. Because, you know, I just sent your mom child support so the answer is no. I mean, I think there's probably a better way. What do you say? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Like we're talking about an 11 year old, right?

She's pretty old. She's pretty smart. She's picking up on that. Let's say she keeps going. She ends up talking to me in 20 years and what's she gonna tell me? What's her relationship with money gonna be? Oh, wow. Spend. Really? Yes. And then? That would be my fault. She'll

be talking about just like we talked about some of the things that happen with us, our parents. She's gonna be talking about it with us. That's right. She's gonna be talking about you. I can't wait till I speak to one of the kids of one of my guests. Okay? That's going to be the day that I really, I feel proud. But I'll tell you something. You have the chance to change that. Yes. Right now though. Don't treat it like 11 year old is little. They're not. 11 year old is

really smart. How do you want to show up when it comes to money and your daughter? Like she calls you, she asks for something, and you say what you previously said, I think there's a better way. How do you want to show up with her? One, ask her what does she need it for. Nice. And then just try to get her to think about, you know, do you really need that?

Not only that, but teach her how to save some money. And I think that's one of the biggest parts. How are you going to do that? Do I need to pop up the CSP on the screen right now again? No. Because what am I going to see if I look at your savings? Zero, right. So I have to show her.

Yes. How are you going to show her? That's how I save her money. Hell yes. And tell her. So this is how it goes. Next time she calls you. What does

11 year old ask for anyway? I don't even know. Everything. Roblox, cards, all type of things. First of all, I wish I hadn't asked that question because I'm getting at like 5,000 people commenting and telling me, oh my God, Rameed, so out of touch. I don't want to know what 11 year olds want. Don't email me. don't comment, don't message. I wish I never said this. Anyway, here we are. She texts you, she calls you, dad, give me this, gift certificate for whatever.

You say, you know what, I'm so glad you asked because I had this conversation the other day that I've been wanting to tell you about. Right there, I'm gonna pause. What have you already seen in my response to her? Taking the opportunity to teach her the value of money and... Yeah. Yeah.

And actually just like excitement, right? I'm so glad you asked. Yeah. Because I had this thing that happened and I've been wanting to talk to you about it. Oh my god, amazing. Okay, great. So then you say you know I realized I haven't been as responsible as I could be with my money and here I am I want to teach you lessons but I'm learning my own lessons. I took an honest look in the mirror and I

realized what? Finish the sentence for me. Then I need to do better with my money. I haven't saved as much as I want. So I'm going to be saving money for myself. I'm building my own discipline just like I want you to do. Every month I'm putting money aside for my own savings, for my own investments. At this point she's like, okay, what do I I care? Like do I get my gift certificate or not? And then you say to her, I love you. You know I want to get you everything in the world but it's not possible. Right now I have to prioritize my savings so

unfortunately I can't get you that game. But I love you. What do you think about that? It's pretty good I think that's definitely something that I'm gonna have to To do and make it your own change it to what feels right for you But just like the key points of that was like, oh, I'm so glad I'm so excited. You brought that up Right totally different way of reacting. Yeah Sharing a lot of kind of vulnerable stuff. Like, when was the last time you told her as a dad, I haven't done the best I could? That's kind of new, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't even like, I found that really hard

to admit until my 30s that like I had these things that I was struggling with that I wasn't perfect at. And to admit that to a kid is like 100 times harder. Any parent knows that. But you can do it. Because you've done it all night long tonight with me. But it's so much more powerful to admit it to a kid because kids never hear their parents say, I messed up, I'm sorry, I'm working on improving myself.

Holy sh-t. A kid is sitting there like They're gonna hang up and they're gonna remember that call for the rest of their lives. I have to say I'm impressed with the progress LaKesha and James made in the short time we spent together They had breakthroughs around their past and how those experiences have shaped their behavior with money today Most importantly they realized that some of these deeply rooted behaviors around money aren't even serving them.

And even though we've mapped out a plan to help them build up their savings and create a healthy retirement, I want to remind you that it's easy to make a plan, but the magic is in actually doing it. I've given Lakeisha and James some new tools to build their rich life, but the rest is up to them. I have a lot of confidence in them. Lakeisha and James, I believe you can do it,

and I want to wish you the best. Let's listen now to James's follow-up video. I think one of the biggest surprises out of the conversation was the fact that Lakeisha and I had some type of parent and child dynamic going on when it come to our finances and I didn't like that. That's not the type of guy I am. So we're working on that. I think one of the biggest takeaways is the fact that even through the fact that I was embarrassed about my situation, Rameek let us know that

it's actually a possibility that we actually can get out of the situation just with a little hard work. And so I'm working on that. It's definitely a challenge, not only a challenge, but it's also a work in progress. No specific changes we have made this weekend. I canceled the lion's share of the subscriptions that I had. That was tough because I showed like watching my videos on the lion's share of the subscriptions that I had.

That was tough, because I showed like watching my videos and things of that nature. So we're working on it. Hopefully it will be one of your biggest success stories. And that is a goal of mine, that the next time we talk to James and Keisha, we'll be in a lot better place. And now, LaKeisha's follow up.

My biggest surprise was just that the connection that was made between my spending habits and that of my mother's, I never ever thought that there was a connection between my spending and her spending. So to make that connection and bring it to my attention was pretty crazy. Some takeaways that I had, one was the fact that we were eating out as much as we were. I did not consider that. And then one that actually leads into one of the changes that we have made since is not eating out as much.

So we actually spent a little bit more on the grocery bill and have made all meals at home as a result and will continue to do so. We've already planned the one eating out meal and when that's going to be. And looking forward to spending that time with family as my daughter and my niece be home for the holidays and from college.

And so looking forward to sharing that that meal and experience with them. Thank you so much for your help. Appreciate it. Hi, I'm Dr. Shafali, the pioneer of conscious parenting, a New York Times bestselling author and a clinical psychologist. I want to tell you a little bit about my podcast. It's called Parenting and You. This is not your typical parenting podcast. Here, I talk to real parents in real time and help them tackle their everyday parenting challenges using conscious strategies to raise empowered and resilient children.

I also help parents discover and uncover how their own inner obstacles are getting in the way of creating authentic connections with their kids. No matter what struggles you have, you will receive profound wisdom that will resonate deeply with your own life experiences. You can find Parenting and You with me, Dr. Shafali, on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.