I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 2. “We’re worth $1 million, but we're so cheap, our friends don't want to see us anymore”

Episode Date: August 5, 2021

Ashley and Greg have a household income of over $250,000 and a net worth of over one million dollars. They’ve developed a reputation for being cheapskates. Not only do their friends and family say that they’re cheap, but their friends have started avoiding them because of it. We’re about to discover that cheapness and net worth are not correlated whatsoever. There’s more to I Will Teach You to Be Rich than simply how to make money. You need to know how to live a Rich Life. It’s great to work hard and earn a lot of money, but the psychology of frugality – even austerity – can follow you around forever if you don’t work to break it. Ashley and Greg are about to learn that money is meant to fuel your Rich Life – not to merely be saved for some day in the future. Listen in as they describe their anxiety around spending money. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin Produced by Crate Media.

It's annoying how much money do you make an hour and how much time are you spending trying to save two dollars, it doesn't make sense. And it's annoying when we go up for dinner, you're like, I want this thing, but I'm going to get this thing because five dollars different and 150 dollar bill who cares. Peace cheap. My guests today are Ashley and Greg. They have a household income of over $250,000 and a substantial net worth. But what happens when only one person in a relationship wants to spend money and the

other is an aggressive or even obsessive-saver. Would your family say that you are cheap? Yes. Yeah. What about friends? Yes. So, I don't think all of them. You want to know something? You're cheap.

If your friends and family would say it, you are cheap. It's one thing to be careful with your money, but being cheap is totally different. It puts a strain on relationships. It shapes and changes your identity, and you end up hoarding money with no purpose whatsoever. Why do you return all my gifts that I buy you because you don't want me to spend money? I don't like the gifts. And the real issue that we're going to discuss today is not about money, it's much deeper. We're going to figure out what's going on here. Do you want to ask each other anything or share how you're feeling? No. Today's couple is Ashley and Greg. Ashley reached out to

me because there's a serious problem in their relationship. The way that they view their finances is creating a rift between them and it's threatening to tear them apart. There's been times where our friends want to go out for dinner and we don't go and then we stop getting invited. Or like we're particular about like where we want to go. They'll pick expensive places and we say can you pick something cheaper? And then I feel like it's just a problem for them. You think you are cheap skates? There's some things that I'm willing to spend money on, but not great. Use a cheap skate.

Okay, first of all, when you ask people if they're cheap, they will never, ever admit it. But usually in the next sentence, they'll tell you everything you need to know. Oh, no, no, no, I'm not cheap. I just prefer to find old food outside the back of a dumpster because it's a great value. But I don't know, I'm not cheap.

In this case, notice the deflection that Ashley employs. She immediately ponds off the cheapness onto Greg. Let's listen to what he says. Greg, that's true. I don't put a lot of value on material things. So neither of you will admit that your cheap skates, except one of you just threw the other under the bus.

I just wanna get their income and savings out of the way because a lot of people believe that, oh, they're cheap because they don't have a lot of money. And it turns out that cheap and net worth are not correlated whatsoever. Listen to their numbers. Together we make about 240 now plus bonuses. So let's say 270. We have our house and we have a rental property and the equity between those two are almost a million dollars. And then with our savings, we have about 500,000.

Great. Any other big financial items that I should know about? I'll have a diamond ring. I don't know how much is worth but two carrots. Whoa. Oh, that sounds cool. Congratulations. I'll have a diamond ring. I don't know how much is worth but two carrots. Whoa! Oh, that sounds cool. Congratulations. Oh, Mary. Five and a half years. How much is your total housing expense per month? We're paying it off quicker than we need to.

So I think like all of our expenses for the whole year is about 46,000. 46K for the entire year of all expenses. Oh, just house. You want to know food too? Oh, no, that's fine. I'm going to guess that your food expenses are relatively inexpensive. Would that be accurate? Oh, no, we spend a lot of food like 25,000 last year. Okay. Tell me about that.

We're very health conscious. so we spend a lot of money on like grass-fed pastures, meat, wild fish, organic food like whole foods, high quality coffee. And yeah I don't really know how we spend that much money. We tried to spend less but it's not really working out for us. Why do you try to spend less? Because who wants to spend that much on food? I'd rather spend that going out with people or maybe like some clothes. I think you hear people like spending four to $600

on groceries a month and we're like, we're at 2,000 and we question how we're at 2,000 when families of four spend like 1,000 and the two of us alone spend two grand. So that's why we try to reign it in. And it's pretty ridiculous that we are as high as we are, even though we're being conscious of it. If you wanted to reign it in, do you think that you could? No.

We literally cut out like fresh berries because berries like either don't eat them or they go bad or they're expensive to start. Again, we're going to buy organic berries so you're already paying a preview for it. Okay, there's something going on here. They have a high income, about $270,000 a year, and a net worth of over a million bucks. Their friends think they're cheap, but they feel guilty about spending on organic berries. And what's even harder is they don't seem to think they have any control in this situation. Their $25,000 food bill is a total mystery to them. I'm going to dig deeper on this.

I'm starting ordering meat from the directly from the farmer instead of the middle man. I think that's helped a little bit but not really. And then we buy what we can at Costco because that's substantially cheaper but otherwise. Like I would like to shop more at the farmer's market but the Greg's too cheap and won't let me. Did you hear that? Greg won't let me. Ashley feels restricted and that's a recipe for resentment. But I'm not sure I buy it. Sometimes feelings do not accurately reflect reality. What confuses me is why they both want to cut back on their spending. You've heard of the phrase comparing yourself to the Joneses.

Mm-hmm. You are comparing yourself to the Joneses only to spend less. Neither of you actually seem to believe that you can cut that down. We're not gonna start eating sick meat. We're not gonna sacrifice quality. That's what gets you cheaper food. Yeah, that's what, so that's not what we're willing to Yeah, that's so that's not

what we're willing to do. That's important to us. So, so I'm just a little confused here because if you want to cut back on this cost you can, but you do are clearly unwilling to shop at cheaper places. You're shopping at literally the most expensive

places, farmers markets, direct from farmers, you're buying fruit and meat and these are expensive foods and then you're buying the best of the best. Let's get real. If you want to cut your spending down by half on food, it's very easy. You're just going to go shop it safely. It's really simple. Do you guys think you could do that if you had to? If we lost our jobs or something we wouldn't have a choice but with our incomes I'm not willing to sacrifice equality. Okay I love hearing you say that Greg do you agree with that? Yep then why do you both torture yourselves at how much it costs? Because I feel bad spending so much money on food.

I come from a scarcity mindset because growing up, my mom didn't have a lot of money. And she was always shopping like canned food and shaking, making stuff. So that's, I feel like if she could spend so little, I should do. Ding, ding, ding. We're on to something here. Anytime someone is able to connect their childhood messages that they received, Ding, ding, ding! We're onto something here. Anytime someone is able to connect their childhood messages that they received with today's spending behavior, well, you know you're onto something. These are what I call invisible scripts.

They are beliefs we have that are held so deeply that we don't even realize they're there. They are effectively invisible beliefs to us. And these invisible scripts guide our lives. Let's keep listening and see what else we can find out here. How much did your mom make, Ronan? Oh, like nothing. I don't even know. How much do you make per year?

Like 90,000. So let me ask the question that we're all wondering, do you think you should live differently than your mom if you make $90,000 a year? Well, I don't know. I think I should save more money. Let me try to ask that question again. Do you think you should live differently than your mom

if you make $90,000 a year? Yes. How? Because I have more money to spend. So how would you live differently than your mom? If you had a blank slate. What do you really want to do in life? So prioritize where you want to spend your money. It sounds so logical coming from you.

What is that? I don't, I guess that's what we do now. It just, we just fake, we should save so much. Why do you say we really should cut down and we've tried to cut it down? What's the truth? I guess we can, we just choose not to. Yeah.

Have you both ever looked at each other and the Ayan said, we shouldn't try to spend less on this. It's important to both of us No A lot of times when people hear the phrase I will teach you to be rich They think it's simply about how to make more money. Yes, of course I can show you how to make a lot more money. We do that on our website and in our programs But there's a reason it's called I will teach teach you to be rich. A rich life is about more than accumulating money. So many people build the skills of getting wealthy, but they never build the skills of knowing

how to actually spend that money. In other words, everyone talks about how to save, but very, very few teach how to spend it. I don't think there's any glory in continuing to use the same strategies that worked for you at 21 when you didn't have any money and you needed to save as to when you've been very fortunate, very lucky, very successful. In fact, I consider it a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to. So I want to turn this around for Greg and Ashley. And I think I'm going to have to do a little bit of work on altering their perspective of money and spending.

I think we just have to accept that that's what it costs to live with our food diet, we shrink the requirements the way it is today. Yes, that's good. I agree with that. But the way you talk about it is really puzzling to me. Oh, we have to accept that we only get to eat grass-fed meat and to forget to market fresh produce. Oh my life, oh horrible. It's our restriction, guys. Let's try to know it.

Okay. Yeah. Refraze it for us. Back to say it to your wife. We have set a priority on the quality of food, the importance of health in our diets and our day to day. And given how important it is, in our diets and our day-to-day, and given how important it is, we are committing to invest in ourselves and spend what we spend on our monthly food budget. Part of a rich life is getting crystal clear of where you want to spend your money. Ashley and Greg know what they value, but you can hear it in the language that they use. They feel guilty about it. So what I just did there was to get them to totally reframe how they think about spending money.

I want to take them from playing defense to playing offense. Try it for yourself. If you want to buy a $1,000 coat and you can afford it, great! If you want front-row tickets to a share concert or you want to go to a Star Wars land at Disneyland, great! My dream for every one of you is to design your rich life and then live it. No apologies, no guilt. So let's talk a little bit about So, let's talk a little bit about where these money beliefs come from. I have to tell you that I can't fix cheap. I can fix a lot of money problems.

I can help people with a lot of money opportunities, but I cannot fix cheap. Fix cheap cheap is deep rooted It's really psychological and most of all cheap people don't really believe they have a problem So they will not do anything to change Do you think you're cheap? To an extent I don't think I'm as bad as Greg that's the second second time they've noticed you deflected to Greg. Let's stay on you. I don't think I'm that cheap. Like to an extent, and depending if I place value on something,

then I'll spend money on it. Like I'm happy to spend $600 on a hotel. But if I'm often spend $20 on a cheap t-shirt. Greg, are you cheap? I just don't put a lot of value on material things. But he doesn't want to even buy a winter coat. And we live in Canada. No, I don't want to buy a $1,000 winter coat which is stupid when there is much more affordable option. I don't need to be the out in with the crowd with a thousand or twelve hundred dollar jacket. Did you catch what Greg just did?

This is a really common technique that people use to justify not spending money on anything, especially people who are cheap. What they'll do is they'll instantly jump to an example that seems highly expensive or frivolous to escape the real question. Listen to how Greg does it. I don't need to buy a thousand dollar jacket. Now, I know in polite conversation, most people would drop it right there, but they came on my show.

I hear you, Greg. Not everybody wants a jacket of a certain brand or style or cost. I hear you on that. But there are lots of other things to spend money on besides material goods. Do you ever think about those? Yeah, like we spend money on experiences. We budget all of our expenses for the year in advance, meaning we have a restaurant budget for the year. Problem begins, I think, is that we say at the

beginning of the year, hey, we passed you, we spent $3,000 on going out to dinner. This year we're gonna budget $3,000. And so like we're in these boxes out of the gate that we feel like we need to stay within that box and stick to that spending that we've set out for ourselves. Otherwise we'll overspend by the end of the year. So, let's talk a little bit about what are some of the ramifications. Would your family say that you are cheap?

Yes. Yeah. What about friends? Yes. Some, I don't think all of them. You want What about friends? Yes. So, I don't think all of them. You want to know something? You're cheek. If your friends and family

would say it, you are cheap. But like they say it and then they're like, oh, we wish we were had as much money to even have such a good financial position with you. So, I have friends who like to buy Louis Vuitton purses every three months and I would never do that. I just go to store with them. Ashley has her own defensive strategy against being called cheap. In this case, she's pulled

out the old technique of picking something really expensive, like say a $1,200 jacket or a Louis Vuitton purse and then she's thrown in some moral superiority. Yeah, they say it, but then they wish they had as much money saved as we do. The fascinating thing about these techniques is they're not even aware that they're using them. Listen.

I'm different from them. And that makes you feel what? Smarter with my money. Notice that you conflated being cheap with being good with your money. Do you think that there's a way to be good with money without being cheap with being good with your money. Do you think that there's a way to be good with money without being cheap? I don't know because if we weren't this cheap, we would have never saved this much or had this much money to invest and we wouldn't be in our financial situation or we can retire at 50.

You only have so much money, either you save it or you spend it. What are some of the things that have caused your friends to joke about you being cheap or even call you cheap? We don't really have furniture. We don't have a thousand dollar recliner chairs and loads of nicks nacks in our house to decorate the house. So friends might come over after us, have it lived here for five years and post looks the same as a bit five years ago because we don't just go spend $1,800 in the rug and $1,200 in the coffee table. Again, they use expensive items like an $1,800 rug to justify being called cheap. What if it was just a $100 rug? They're setting the bar super high and then using that bar to justify being cheap and they do it all the time.

Broder wanted to buy a 12 or $1,500 snowblower for my parents. Like we don't budget $750 for us to split a $1,500 snowblower. That's an unexpected cause that we have in budget of four. We don't have that much just sitting around. So the perception is that you're cheap because you can't afford to contribute to this gift. And people make comments like, oh, you guys can go out and spend $20,000 a year on vacations, but you don't want to go out for dinner and stuff. Let's say that's that we choose to do.

There's been people like who have planned like a bachelor at party and expected everyone to contribute $600. Without even having a discuss with anyone. Once again, we didn't have $600 budgeted for a two-night stay. Somewhere that was fancy that someone else had full control and spoken for everyone's financial position without reaching out first to say is everyone okay with spending this much? There's one couple that she always picked very expensive restaurants and I've always had to ask her not to so now is she just doesn't make plans with us anymore? It is it concern you or no? I'm like, I don't know if I really care to hang out with them,

but it's you really need to go and spend $400 on dinner. You can't spend like $150. It's still have a good time. There's that defense game again, but that's all this is a defense mechanism. These aren't really genuine answers that solve the problem we're talking about. You two are the ones who called me, not your friends. My friends call me cheap, but I'm upset about that because I think my friends are your breakfast with their money. You guys have very good answers for everything. There's only one problem. You are still cheap. Have you noticed it? You

have answers for everything. Are you cheap? No, I actually prefer spending on this and add an I pay for value. Do you have your friends and family call you cheap? No, I actually prefer spending on this and add an IPA for value. Do your friends and family call you cheap? Yes, they do. Why? Because they want me to buy a new $10,000 furniture all the time and they expect me to fly to Vegas and do all this.

You have great reasons. All those things are totally true. Could you cut back on your spending on food if you really needed to know? We prioritize health. And then finally, well, we've built entire lives around this one moment at 52.

But actually, we don't want to retire. And Greg, I know Greg's not going to want to retire because there's no way he'll give up the income. And he has the only goal in life right now is prioritizing towards a goal. Like you can't say I'm cheap when I spend $20,000 on vacations a year. Or that I spend $20,000 on vacations a year, or that I spend $24,000 on groceries.

That's fair, that's a really fair comment. What I don't love is the hyper focus on cost for everything else. Greg, you make $270,000 a year and you drive to different stores to find cheaper blueberries. I'm not, listen, I'm not going out of my, this I didn't say those things. My wife said, am I jumping in a car and going out of my way? No.

If I'm in my, I don't know why you're shaking your head. No, it's not true. So does it bug you Ashley or is it fun? What is it? No, it bothers me. Like it's annoying. How much money do you make an hour and how much time are you spending trying to save $2? This doesn't make sense.

And it's annoying when we go up for dinner. You're like, I want this thing, but I'm going to get this thing because $5 different. And 150-hour bill who cares. He's cheap. His comments are annoying too. When you're at a restaurant, you'll make these comments that annoy

Ashley. And so that does generate an argument. So what do you get out of that? Out of the comments I make the restaurant? Yes, where you say I want this, but I'm gonna get this because it's cheaper. What does it get you? It saves me a few bucks. What I'm doing here is I'm really looking for Greg to go beyond the obvious answer. See, most of us get something out of our behavior, even if it's not obvious. For example, if we complain about how tired we are, we get attention and sympathy from the people around us. So we keep doing it.

Now when you point this out to people, it's a really hard concept to acknowledge because deep down most of us believe we are logical and rational. And so it can seem dumb or even scary that we might not be consciously aware of our behavior. Listen to Greg trying to grapple with this. When you say that out loud, what does it do for you? It doesn't do anything. What does something? Otherwise, you wouldn't do it. We do things because it rewards us. Ashley eats tahini because it tastes good and it makes her happy. You drive around town because you get something out of saving money.

As you've just told us, it allows you to avoid the next argument about being overspent on groceries. Fine, I accept that. But I don't understand when you're at a restaurant. And it's one thing if you want the steak, but you say, I'm going to get the chicken because it's cheaper to yourself. But you say it out loud. What does it get for you? I don't think I say it out loud. I might mention it after the restaurant. Like I also know what it costs like a meal costs. Am I gonna go to a restaurant and spend $24 in a salad?

Like it is beyond ridiculous what the markup on a salad is? I don't need to have a lecture on food costs. Just tell me what it gets you. I wouldn't sit at a dinner and say, oh, I'm not gonna get this openly in front of her. I might just get the other option, as exactly as you said, and my head, I'll say this is a better choice for me

for a variety of reasons. I'm not, I can assure you, I'm not sitting at a dinner dining room table, saying let me see how I can save three dollars today, just to get a reaction out of her. Like, I'm absolutely certain it doesn't happen. Interesting. So why do you think Ashley disagrees? Here's where it may be. There's a difference. If we're going to go out and get an afternoon meal, like a quick lunch, and she's going to go and get a whatever $20 meal, because

that's what it costs to sit down for lunch. I might sit there and say do I really want to spend $18 on a burger with cheese and mushrooms or I'm going to be happy with a burger at $14.00. It doesn't have the fixings. So that's a more realistic example of it. I've never been in a situation where we go out to dinner and I say like, Emily, that was $120 for two and a half hours of entertainment. Yeah, there's been situations where I like to go up for brunch and he's like, why are we gonna spend $50 on brunch

and we can go up for dinner instead? I don't understand what the point is very money on this is. Even though I like the active going out for brunch, I don't even wanna ask him because he's gonna make comments so I just rather not. I believe him. Sounds like Greg is telling the truth. He never made those comments out loud because he never had to. Ashley predicted them and responded before they actually ever happened. Well, I think the cost of all of this is the, I'm not talking about the financial cost,

but the fact that Ashley does not want to bring certain things up with you because of how she believes you will react. What do you think the cost of that is? Yes, it's just content, and we probably are against each other if that's a feeling. And what happens after 20 years of that? We don't get to retouch our together. Yeah, exactly. That's really savvy of you to say,

I think I speak to a lot of couples and many of them call me and they have problems. And when I ask them about it, they minimize it. They actually come on here and I say, tell me about it. And they go, it's actually not that big of a deal. And then they proceed to tell me some minor little thing. And I say, what do you think happens

after 20 years of that? And it strikes them. Oh my God, this is exactly what people mean when they say we got divorced because of money. It's not some big financial infidelity thing. In most cases, it's something that started in their 30s. Just a little habit, a little phrase that one or two of them used, a different way of looking at the world with money, a different way of ordering your meal, and it compounds.

And suddenly, Greg, you're doing your thing, but you have your values, the way you look at the world, your worldview, Ashley has hers, and they diverge one degree by one degree. And as your income goes up, they diverge more and more. And the only clue you have about it is the small little fights. What do you think Ashley is responding to when you don't order the wine? Or you don't order a certain XYZ? Her preconceived notion that I'm not doing it to save money. Yeah, and I would say there's probably some cause for her to believe that because you have brought money up many times you drive around town It's like a thing, but what do you think she is feeling uncomfortable about? She's feeling uncomfortable that if she spends it, I'll be judging. I think that's probably true

Why don't you ask her? Why are you uncomfortable about me not wanting to participate in all these? Because I like I fake you don't even want to be there because it's costing you money and you rather just be at home But like the whole point is to spend time together. It's what I told you before. It's not about the truth Yeah, how are you feeling right now Greg? This is pointed at this was that important to her and we didn't go nice All right, this is a really important moment. We hear Greg acknowledging that he's disappointed

because he cares about Ashley and he understands how his behavior has unintentionally upset her. You know, this is a huge clue to the success of their relationship. Oftentimes in these conversations, I'm looking for clues as to what's going on with the financial question, but you can just as well hear the clues about the strength of their relationship. And this is a really positive one.

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Okay, let me give you a suggestion on what to ask. Would that be okay? Sure. Ask her if we went to brunch together. What would it mean to you? And really dig into there. Which whatever she tells you, double down, ask her for more. Really get into her vision.

Alright, go ahead. If we went for brunch, what would that experience me to you? We get to connect on a deeper level than day to day just talking in the kitchen and it makes me feel closer to you. What can I do to replicate that experience for you, whether it's on brunch or elsewhere? What I ask you to go out and do you think? Don't be like, no, because it's as much money and I'd rather do this with

this money. If I'm asking you to do something because I want to do it, it's not just something to do to spend time together. Ask her again, Greg. You asked a great question. She was a little irritated in her answer, but you really want to know the answer to your question. So say, I told you understand that. I hope you don't mind if I ask you again because I really want to know what's on your mind. And then ask her again. For you said, if you don't mind. I'm irritated. What can I do to make sure that you get that

branch experience? Or what can I do for you to replicate those feelings that you get during? They go out more. Or like when I ask you to plan the eight so we can spend time together. So when I ask you to go out, I don't want you to say no, I don't want you because of money or whatever. Ashley, tell him what you do want. Avoid telling him what you don't want.

He's looking for guidance, so help him. I want you to say yes when I ask you to go out and I want you to ask me to go out sometimes. And I want to spend time together outside of the house. And I want you to be okay with spending more money and doing things together. Greg, don't feel pressured into it just because she's saying that's what she wants. Now, if you agree or disagree, talk about it. This is your opportunity both to negotiate these things. Go ahead.

My name is not an issue when we go off for restaurants because it's part of the same going out restaurant budget. But how come sometimes for a birthday plan to be set for you and then you can tell me a chance, so that you could do you want to spend money? And why do you return all my gifts that I buy you because you don't want me to spend money? I don't like the gifts. Wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. Ashley just dropped a major bombshell and Greg just swatted it away.

Did he not catch what just happened? Greg, how do you think she just took what you said to her? I'm difficult to buy for, because I don't have a lot of needs. I'm not interested in that. How do you think she feels hurt that I don't accept her gifts? When somebody gives you a gift, especially your wife, what is another approach you might be able to take?

Quite honestly, it's probably just explaining that there's something else that I had my heart set on, or something else I had my eye on, and if we don't mind switching it for that instead. That's definitely one option. That is code for... That's one of the worst possible answers on Earth. Give me another option. Tell her I love her. I don't even bother putting effort into getting your gifts anymore. Put your own return anyway. producer what's going on here?

This is the beginning of checking out. It's not just brunch, it's not just travel. It's not just gifts. Did you hear what she just said, it's not just gifts. Did you hear what she just said? Say it back to us. I don't put effort into buying you gifts anymore because I know you're just gonna return it.

Greg, you both have some real serious things here. They're really underneath the surface. And every individual item to you, whether it's the drinks or the grass-fed beef or the blueberries or any of the examples we've talked about, you all, you have an individual reason for everything. But actually, when you said you've created an environment, to me that is as level 10 red alert as it gets. That is really dangerous. Any negative environment is toxic. It causes people to check out.

It causes people to just stop caring. And once that happens, you cannot get them back. Do you two wanna ask each other anything or share how you're feeling? No. Okay, that's fair enough. Okay, they have some work to do on their communication, but I want to shift gears here for a second

because I don't want to lose sight of the bigger picture. What are they actually going to do with all this money they're saving? Keep in mind that between them, they have an annual income of $270,000 and a net worth of over a million bucks. Greg, what do you think you're going to spend on when you retire? Golf club membership. Okay. $25,000 a year. What else? Oh no, I've found a much cheaper option. Bro! I can't believe it. After everything we've been talking about today, the first example was a cheaper option. Why?

I want to go to luxury resort and fly first pass. It's just the biggest question mark is how are we going to travel and how do we spend money on travel. So even if we say six months somewhere, that can very well mean a apartment and a city somewhere across the world at 2500 a month. Like we don't need to have a luxury apartment to enjoy what the culture is like. Wait a second. I thought the whole point of this was to save now so that Greg and Ashley can spend extravagantly in retirement. But now he's telling us,

oh, he's not going to spend extravagantly in retirement. He's still going to be looking for deals. Then, when he has millions and millions of dollars, when exactly is he actually planning to spend all this money? Greg, when was the last time that you went to a luxury hotel? We actually traveled to Europe for a month. And how much did that cost you when you were there? 12,000.

And how did you feel about that, Greg? It was budgeted for it so it was fine. Ah, very interesting. We knew that we wanted to get away from work. It was our first trip in a year. You don't want to go to Italy and cook in your own house. You want to go in Yokey in the restaurant. So when you make the decision to eat out every single meal and get comfortable accommodations. You just are okay with the bill, being what it is. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Well, as long as...

Actually, was that your experience, too? No, I was going to say that great. Tell me that's ridiculous that I want to spend that much on vacations every year. To me, I think it's just a five because I sacrifice other things in my life to have those. I don't get my hair done or my nails done. I don't buy a lot of clothes. I don't go out ever because I want to save people on trips. So the trips after food is our biggest expense and the trips becomes a contentious topic sometimes because I don't need the highest and

Butler service accommodations when I go on vacation. But we don't spend that. We spend $20,000 before. I know, but that's like it for us to go for a honeymoon and we stayed in luxury places. That's it. First of all, I'm a hotel guy, so I need to know which I'm going to be talking about here. Where'd you go on your honeymoon? We went to Bali and we stayed at the Chedi. Beautiful. All right, I got to tell you guys, I don't care.

We could be talking about you becoming an orphan. But if you mention that you stayed at a certain luxury hotel, I'm going to stop that conversation. Hold on a second. Which suite did you stay in? How'd you like it? What type of food did you order off menu to talk to the chef? To take a tour with the general manager? What can I say? I love these hotels. I got to know the details. I'm sorry guys. When we were in Poland, so it's much cheaper. So we went to this like a spa hotel and like, the, the, the So it was only $600 a night,

but it was like a lot of banker buses of their currency. I wanted to see what Greg and Ashley actually need to save in order to hit their financial goals and how it compares to their lifestyle. Their plan is to retire at 52, so I crunch the numbers for them. So you're on track to do about that.

Looks like you are gonna end up with around four million bucks. When you think about those numbers, how do you feel? Right. If I'm making a quarter million dollars at 51 or 52, am I walking away from another year of quarter million dollars, the question mark will be, am I going to be prepared to walk away from whatever level, whatever job I have, had that age, and just forego that income. I think that's going to be a tough

part that we're going to have to navigate, which could also result in some issues. I already know the answer to that, so do you. Exactly. Yeah. What is it? All he talks about is retiring, but then I'm like, you're not going to walk away from that income once you get there. So why do you guys put 52 retirement? You don't want to retire at 52. But we have, so we call it financial freedom. Like we have the option if we don't want it, if I, neither of us wants to go to work anymore and we've had enough.

Financially speaking, Ashley and Greg are both well ahead of most people I speak to. They're aligned on their financial goals, they're high earners, they've got a great amount saved up. What's interesting is that this conflict stems from their self-imposed annual budget, which is restricting their spending. In other words, they're prisoners of their own creation. Now, the solution seems obvious to you and me. We both know that they don't need to be saving so much money.

But it's one thing to quote, no, what needs to be done. It's a whole other thing to make those changes in your own life. Let's see if I can convince them to cut themselves a little bit of slack here. You guys are already going to have $4 million, and if you're just after that, you'll have $10 million. So these arguments that you're having, first of all, they're really over small amounts of money. We're not talking about 80 grand. We're talking about $5, $50. But the second part of that is that they're actually not about money at all. It's not a math problem. This is a deep psychology problem. You don't have

the skills of spending money. You've never developed them. Ashley, we talked about your mom. Greg, we didn't get a chance to get into your family, but would you agree that there's probably, is there something in your past where similar to Ashley, there were maybe financial irregularities or people who didn't spend a lot of money? Yeah. Yeah. she grew up pretty poor Earlier I mentioned that we start forming our money habits in childhood You know, I think it's time to hear Greg's story I'm Eastern European my going out would be on the drive camping. We stopped at KFC once a year whereas now The the needs of my partner are to go out multiple times a month, which is very different

than my whole upbringing. Like that one KFC brought me joy, but I don't think I can replicate that joy by going out on a regular basis. So like the fact that we go and we make it feel special to us brings me back to that time when we popped into KFC, but I don't know if I'm going to have that same satisfaction and joy and love if I go out for or five pounds a month. Yeah.

Everybody talks about the hedonic treadmill and the advice that everybody in the financial world gives you is the hedonic treadmill will force you to have diminishing returns on your enjoyment, which is true, but then they go one step further. They go, therefore, don't do anything a lot because you're never going to enjoy it. And I think Greg, your mind is telling you, hey, I got a lot of joy out of going out once a year. So therefore, because I'm a human and humans love to be consistent, I should get the same amount of joy doing it now. And if I need to go out more than there's something wrong with me, I've actually become

one of those frivolous spenders. But I'll give you a different perspective. I want to acknowledge that you're not going to get the same joy today even going to a $200 restaurant that you got from that $5 KFC now. It's not going to happen. Things are different. You were also getting a lot of joy not because of the chicken or the KFC is pretty good. Who were you with? My family. Yeah. So whether it's $5 or $500, you were with people you love. And what you've done is you've let the dollar amount become the most important part of that story. The real answers the people you were with. So you have the chance to do that now. Yeah, it's going to be a little

bit more expensive. In fact, it's going to be a lot more expensive. Do you think 15-year-old you would ever imagine that you'd be making this kind of money? No. Exactly. Without any specific goals for the next 15 to 20 years, I predict you'll accumulate a tremendous amount of money. I don't think you truly understand the costs. If you add up all the collective decisions you've made, On your income, you've saved how much per year. With everything you do to save on wine and blueberries and this particular branch, whatever. How much does it save you per year? Not much.

How much? Give me a number. $5,000. It's more than 5,000. I can tell you that right now. 10? Good. Give me a number. $5,000. It's more than $5,000. I can tell you that right now. 10. Good.

Maybe you're saving $5,000 to $10,000 per year. How do you feel about that? Now that I'm older, I feel like it's not worth it when I was 20 that was more like a significant number. Let's first start out with what your world view on the world has cost you. How could you figure that out? I don't just mean financially. How many fewer people are calling you to go out? Yeah.

What else? How many times we fought over money? There you go. How many memories we've lost with our families? Keep going. What else? How many times we haven't connected? Because we don't go out. We just lost sitting front TV. There's a lot more important things in money.

Greg, what about you? It becomes eye-opening and very evident that we've missed out on these memories and experiences, or what can be $5,000 to $10,000 a year and expensive. If it were someone making $25,000 a year, I'd be having a very different discussion with them. You two are professionally very successful. I won't go so far as to say you're financially successful. You saved a lot of money, but being successful with money is about more than math. What I would argue you failed at

is to prioritize everything else. It became tunnel vision focused on numbers. And that's not a rich life. That's just a lot of money. I agree. What do you want to do about it? I don't want to say as much I want to start living for today and not for tomorrow. What about you, Gray? Like you said, I think we just have to look at the things that we feel that we're missing out on. These sandboxes we've created for ourselves, being able to expand, so that we can feel at least in the interim

until we learn how to spend, how we can feel better about having a budget of for these experiences, having the allocated funds. You won. You're done. You've already invested a tremendous amount in your investing $70,000 plus per year. So it's not that you are choosing today over tomorrow. Tomorrow is done. You've got it. Locked it in. Well done. All right, so things are going to come up that you did not budget for. And both of you have one reaction. Can I? I feel like we have a slush account.

We do not. I like where you're going Greg. How much should that slush account have in both $100? Greg! No, I thought we had this. 1200. If you covered in other buckets, why would you have another large slash bucket?

Greg, stop thinking like you're still poor. You make $270,000 a year. The unexpected things that come up for you are more expensive than for somebody who has low income. There's no nobility in continuing to act like your words actually offensive. So Greg, how much should be in that slush fund? $5,000. Good. $5,000 now. And three years from now, how much you think it should be in there? $7,000. Okay. That's good. At least directionally. Ashley, what if I you? Okay. Fine. That's great. That's perfectly fine least directionally. Ashley, what about you? I'm good, Sam.

Okay, fine. That's great. That's perfectly fine. If it were me, I would've said 15,000. Because I want you to start thinking bigger. I think they both get it. Let's hear how they're feeling. I'm excited like that. We're going to get some freedom with this because this is what I wanted for a long time and I'm glad that we're on the same page of this. It's going to be hard, I think. I'm very optimistic because we've been bound by these very strict rules and I think where

we've both opened up to the understanding that we can afford more now, we can allocate more to ourselves, to our well-being, or our mental health, or to our marriage, and it's just a matter of being able to start putting on the action. That's awesome. I really love that. I love hearing you acknowledge each other. You feel confident, Ashley? Yeah, I'm excited. to be a college each other. You feel confident, Ashley? Yeah, I'm excited.

I am too. My greatest joy will be to hear from you both in six to 12 months. What are you going to tell me? We're going to tell you about the hotel we went to. I bet much we enjoyed it. There you go. What are you going to enjoy at that hotel? We're going to go treat ourselves. It is the new version Greg of your KFC is seeing your wife

smiling because you've created abundance in this relationship and actually for you, it's the joy of watching Greg opening up financially and so when you're both at this beautiful resort and you're eating this grapefruit, when you look at them, and you see them smiling, you're smiling. That's a great moment for both eating and appreciate each other. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe to I Will Teach You to Be Rich on any podcast platform. And you'll get notified each time we drop a new episode.

And if you've really enjoyed what you've heard so far, rate and review us too, I would love to have your rating and we're just starting out so those reviews and ratings really help. Thank you. Here's what you'll find next week on the I Will Teach To Be Rich podcast. Even though you're living month to month, you've managed to accumulate six figures in savings. That's no joke.

And yet you are words that I heard today obsessing. You're talking about like $10 expenses, but you have over $200,000 in savings, both independently and jointly. Do you know how much your money right now turns into by the time you're 65? If you just keep contributing the same amount. Any idea how much it turns into? No. Take a guess.

5 million? It's a good guess. It's 3.6 million.