I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 218. “Our childcare costs are about to quadruple. Are we screwed?” (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Last week, we met Dominique (33) and Chris (34)—a couple earning $180K a year, raising a toddler, and still living paycheck to paycheck. Dominique felt alone in managing their finances, while Chris stayed disengaged, assuming things were fine. In Part One, we uncovered the cracks: a lack of communication, zero long-term planning, and growing resentment. Now, as their childcare costs are about to quadruple, will they be able to move past survival mode and start working as a team? Will Chris finally step up—and can Dominique let go of overthinking and accept support? In this episode we uncover: • How their expensive Arizona house became a symbol of both pride and financial strain. • The quiet resentment Dominique feels when Chris is out of work—and why she kept it to herself. • A surprising disconnect around how much they contribute—and who’s really paying more. • Ramit’s reality check about going month to month on a six-figure income. • Why Dominique’s overthinking makes her feel in control—but leaves them stuck in place. • The false sense of security that’s masking a dangerous truth: They have just two months of savings. • The emotional cost of living reactively—and what it will take for them to finally plan ahead. Chapters: (00:00:00) “My friend sold it to me…” — the truth about whole life insurance (00:09:05) Investing, saving… or just surviving? (00:14:58) Problem-oriented vs. solution-oriented (00:22:11) Ramit breaks down their numbers (00:26:14) He’s living for his son—but what about himself? (00:38:32) What if selling your house meant losing money? (00:43:13) “I thought I’d be co-parenting by now” (00:52:38) Dominique & Chris 2.0: Confident. Open. Together. (01:03:30) Where are they now? Dominique and Chris’s follow-ups This episode is brought to you by: Rocket Money | Cancel unwanted subscriptions and manage your expenses the easy way at https://rocketmoney.com/ramit DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to https://joindeleteme.com/ramit for 20% off. Facet | Facet is waiving their $250 enrollment fee for new annual members, and for my audience, Facet is offering $300 into your brokerage account if you invest and maintain $5,000 within your first 90 days. Head to https://facet.com/ramit to learn more about which membership option is best for you. Gelt | Book a tax consultation with Gelt at https://joingelt.com/ramit. As a member of my community, you can skip the waitlist. ZocDoc | Download the ZocDoc app for FREE at https://zocdoc.com/ramit then find and book a top-rated doctor today #sponsored Connect with Ramit • Get my new book, Money For Couples • Get Money Coaching with Ramit • Download the Conscious Spending Plan • Listen to my book—now on Audible • Get my New York Times best-selling book • Get my no-numbers journal • Other episodes • Instagram • Twitter • YouTube If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here.

If you and your partner want my help with your finances, listen up. I'm looking for amazing couples to work with on my podcast in twenty twenty five. So if you have trouble getting on the same financial page as your partner and you feel stuck, I want to help you. Please apply at IWT.com slash apply. If I think I can help, my team will reach out for an interview with you and your partner. And if it's a good fit, I will invite you to work with me on the podcast, which is essentially

a two or three hour long private coaching conversation. Private with you, me and millions of people who watch. I'm only looking for couples who are serious and people who are ready to do the work. So if that's you, I'd love to see you apply at IWT.com slash apply your childcare costs are about to quadruple. Yeah, you're losing 1000 to $2,000 a month on your house. What happens if we hang up and nothing changes? If we change nothing, I feel like we lose everything. How much money do you have in your checking account right now? At the moment, am I checking account have $64 and 1818. I feel like we're almost like one

really big f***ing way from just losing everything. As much as we're in a relationship, I feel like I'm still kind of just worried about my own money in a sense. I'm gonna be really honest with you. You're a guy who makes pretty good money, you don't know much about it, and you're not willing to actually learn. What do you do when your childcare costs are about to quadruple? Especially when your finances are already tight. Last week I spoke to Dominique and Chris, a young couple making $180,000 a year. On paper, that's an amazing income,

but their short-term mindset has them living very, very tightly with their finances. They bought a second house based purely on vibes. They didn't run the numbers. And when we talked, they were overwhelmed. They were unsure of what they could actually afford. That mindset of thinking small was the culprit behind everything, from their daily spending to their hesitation around investing.

And by the end of that first conversation, they started facing the truth. The numbers don't add up. Their finances are driven mostly by emotion, not by math. And if they don't make a change, they are at risk of losing everything they've built. So now in part two, we get to the upcoming explosion in childcare costs. Like a lot of couples that have come to speak to me, Dominique and Chris are stuck in their

problems. Deep down, it kind of seems like they're hoping I'm going to wave a magic wand and their problems will magically disappear. But that's not how it works. So listen today as I shift the responsibility back onto them. And sometimes I have to be really direct. Let's flip this for a second. What questions do you want to ask me?

You guys came here, you applied, you obviously talked about this, you talked to all these screening people on my team. What questions did you come here with that you want me to answer for you? How can I be better is really the question. How can I manage my spending and certain things like that better?

Because I feel like I don't Have a conscious control on the way. I do you spend my money here and there What's the question? How can you be better? That's a pretty vague question. How can I be better in saving and investing and Helping myself for the future That's a good question My answer to that would first, you need to understand the basic language of personal finance. You need to read a book together. You need to understand what a savings account is, investing account.

You need to understand how much your pension is actually going to pay you. How much is it worth? And you need to be putting money aside every single month into joint account, savings, investing and then guilt free spending. It needs to happen every month consistently, automatically. That alone will put you ahead of 95% of Americans right there. I don't know if it's an investment or like if it's counted as a savings, but I have like a life insurance policy that I have.

Oh God. That I put $100 towards every month. Where is that? I didn't see that on your CSP. Yeah, I put it as what I have as my savings in a sense, because I wasn't sure on where to put it. Who sold you that? We sold the life insurance.

Was it your high school friend? It was a friend of mine, yes. I knew it. What's his name? John, Jack, Ben? No, no. Chris, don't tell me his name, because he's about to get roasted to hell and beyond.

Now, what did this guy, he took you to what, a Chipotle? He goes, bro, I gotta tell you. He didn't take me to anywhere. I just kind of was looking to find different ways to save or like, you know, go towards like the future. I didn't really have much information about it. And I kind of just jumped into it thinking like, you know, for retirement in 20-30

years or whatever it's gonna help or if some crazy thing happens. So it's whole life insurance right? I think it's fixed or something like that. Oh okay. And you're paying a hundred bucks a month? Yeah I put a hundred hundred and one dollars towards it. I've had it for two years now. How's it doing? There's like

$3,300 in there something like that Okay, I'm glad we're talking I'm really glad because you probably just saved tens of thousands of dollars just from that last sentence you casually just mentioned Mm-hmm. So I don't know the exact insurance policy you guys definitely should have term life insurance I don't know the exact insurance policy. You guys definitely should have term life insurance because your parents and one of you gets hit by a bus or both, you wanna provide for your son, of course. Yes.

Your buddy probably did not sell you term life insurance, which is like inexpensive. He probably sold you a whole life insurance policy. He makes a lot of money off of it, okay? There's a lot of fees. It's not a savings account. There's no reason to pay all the thousands of dollars in fees you're paying, which you don't even know about.

So I'm gonna give you a little homework. One of them is gonna be to actually look up that insurance policy and you will learn how much it will cost if you stop paying. But probably since you're young, over the course of your entire life, you would probably still be better off, probably stopping paying that and just putting the money into a freaking normal investment account, okay?

The way you said it was like after a year, you could take money out of it, tax free, things like that. So I mean, I probably just got the whole mumbo jumbo about it and just kind of fell for it. Yeah, so why did you put your money in there? I was in a position where I thought it was gonna better me or help. Can I tell you something, Chris? I'm gonna be really honest with you.

You're in the prime position of getting completely ripped off. You are prey to the Wall Street industrial complex. You know why? Because you're a guy who makes pretty good money. You don't know much about it and you're not willing to actually learn. So literally you're just like walking outside and you're like, you like walking to a casino with like a fat stack of cash. And you're just like, Hey, I don't know how to play any of these games.

And they're like, Hey, sir, why don't you come on over here? And they're nice. And they give you a little drink. Here you go, Chris. Oh, such a nice young gentleman. Sign up for this little blackjack and they just take you and you don't even know it. I don't want that for you. Okay. The truth is actually it's not that hard to learn about money and you need to. That is the expectation for young parents because otherwise you're going to pass on

the same thing to your kids. You ask me, how do I get better? This is how you get better. You take this stuff seriously. Same way if I wanted to become a carpenter, I would f***ing take it seriously. And I would be asking you serious questions because I already did my research. That's what I expect for you. Yet again, life insurance. Oh man. If you listen to this show, you know that this comes up a lot. Okay, let me just explain it to you in very simple terms. Term life insurance is simple, affordable for the vast majority of people. That is what they need for life insurance. You pay a low monthly premium. If something happens to you during

the term, 20 or 30 years or whatever, your family gets a payout. That's it. Clean, effective, clear. Whole life insurance, on the other hand, is where things get murky. It's loaded with fees. It's confusing by design. It's often sold as this weird savings slash investment account. Lots of conversations about tax free bullsh**. None of this is necessary. You end up paying way more. The return is generally terrible.

Who sells it to you? Some friend from high school, somebody who takes you to get a sizzling fajita for lunch and pitches it like a smart tax-free investment. Oh, thanks Chet. So cool. Loved seeing you in high school biology, the class in which you got an F. Please, you don't have to do this. You don't need your insurance to be an investment. Investments are investments. Insurance is insurance. They are two separate things. Insurance is meant to protect your dependents. That's why I recommend Term Life Insurance. That's why we've actually had Fabric by Gerber Life as a sponsor on other episodes of the podcast.

They make it easy. So if you're thinking about life insurance for your family, go with Term. Check out Fabric by Gerber Life. This is one of the simplest, most impactful financial decisions you can make, especially if you are a parent or you have other people depending on. Now, let me go over to you, Dominique. What questions would you like to ask? I really just want to know where to place the money. Feel like, of course, there are plenty of things that I can stop doing so that I'm not just spending all of my money. But then what do I do with it?

Okay. That's a good question. Which money? I feel like I need to make more money in order to be doing these things. But I understand now after we're speaking that yeah, there are plenty of ways that I could be utilizing my money better. But then how do I utilize it? What do you think? What do you think is the right answer? I feel like I should be investing more because I can maybe get a good return on it. Okay. I feel like I should be investing more because I can maybe get a good return on it. Okay. I feel like I should be investing more because that's what's going to help us in the future. And I think that I need to start investing because I feel like I haven't invested, you

know, for the past 30 years, I should probably start now. Okay. What about saving? Savings is the same. I guess I just don't understand if I should be doing both. Do I save and invest or do I take my savings and invest it? All good questions. I could answer each of these questions.

Let's pretend I answered each of those questions right now and we hung up the phone. What would happen in the next week, month, et cetera, with the two of you? I mean, I don't know if anything would happen because it's going to have to take the will, and then ultimately we need to be able to communicate that with each other.

I think that we'll get overwhelmed, and then nothing will happen. So do you see that the real problem here is not a lack of information? Mm-hmm. What do you think would actually help the two of you make a sustained change? Communication. I think that in general for us to be able to sit down and talk it through concisely

is what would help. Okay, I agree. What's the most embarrassing subscription that you didn't even realize you were still paying? I asked my audience on social media this and I got some amazing answers. Many people admitted they signed up for the same subscription two or three times with different email addresses. One of my followers has been paying for a Pokemon app that her kid has not used in three years.

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rocketmoney.com slash Ramith. You know that moment where you're just sitting there eating your breakfast and then you remember something you did in fourth grade and you go. For me, I remember getting absolutely roasted on YouTube not long ago for calling something an emoticon. I didn't realize they're called emojis now and they have been for over a decade. Now, I would have paid to have that memory wiped from my existence forever, but that's

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they've found so far. Then they continue to scan and remove your personal information regularly all year long. This is a service I personally pay for, and I regularly recommend it to my friends and family. So, if you want to get your personal information removed from search results on the web, go to joindeleteme.com slash Ramith for 20% off a plan for you or your entire family. Again, that's joindeleteme.com slash Ramith, R-A-M-I-T. What do you think would actually help the two of you

make a sustained change? Communication. What has stopped you from doing that before now? I am probably the more straightforward person. If you're straightforward, what does that make him? Not straightforward. Sometimes I just want you to just tell me what it is. Tell me what you need to tell me in a couple of words,

because I start to tune it out after a while. I don't think that's true. He told you, I'm thinking of getting another car. And I just needed to know what he has planned to get there. And I could understand that I could have gone about that better. I guess for me, it's just like, okay, this is what your plan is, then tell me how you want to get to that plan. Or do you want to sit down and talk about that plan? But I think even getting into that conversation in general, we both

get annoyed with each other. Yeah. What about you, Chris? What do you think? What would make a sustained change possible for the two of you? I guess, yeah, like better, better communication in the sense of the money side, it does get a little overwhelming and she is very like a strong woman. And for me, I kind of shut down in those situations because I don't

like confrontation and I don't want to get to a certain point to where it makes it even worse, you know. But I feel like we just need to be maybe talk about it more, kind of have a make a plan, just kind of little things that we can work on and build from one point and then you know step by step get to where we ultimately kind of want to get with the things that we're talking about. Okay, you both laid out what you thought would make a sustained change. You both heard it, right? Do you believe it? I think it's possible. I don't know. Yes and no.

It feels very vague to me. A lot of use of the word just. We just need to sit down. We just need to communicate. We just need to take it step by step. How long have you all known each other for? Well, been together for six years now. Yeah. Do you feel like if you were going to do it, you would have done it? Yeah. So what's missing? Because I don't think it's from a lack of trying or you don't have time. It's not that.

I think the conversation always ends negatively. I think that we've definitely tried in the past. Maybe I can be kinder. Do you know what you're working towards? I don't think so. I feel like there's like this big kind of bubble in my head that what I'm working for is unattainable. You know, I want to have tons of money to never worry about anything, but that's not an actual figure.

That's just a, you know, this bubble. And so that's why I feel like I can never attain it. So what am I working for? I have no idea. I just know that I need to have investments and savings and these are the things that I need. But what is that? Don't know.

Can you hear your dad's voice in your head right now? Yeah. What is he saying? I basically just hear him say all the time, though, you know, we're just broke, we don't have it. So we're not gonna get there. But I also feel like even though he's never and would never say it to me that he did it,

so I should be able to do it. Do what? By the house, so okay, we did it, right? You know, have the baby, okay, we did it. Are you guys ready to start living for yourselves instead of what everybody else is telling you to do? Yeah, I mean I'd like to you'll realize that the rest of the world will dictate your life And you will just go along with it until you actually start realizing what you want for yourselves. Why am I getting? More agitated or even angry about this than you are you're the ones who have two houses

Losing two thousand dollars a month. You're the one who has a two year old son who's starting to pick up on everything you're saying. You're the ones who have two months of savings. Yeah. You all seem like, oh yeah, it kind of sucks. Boo hoo, Eeyore. Why? Why am I the one who's like, what are we going to do about this? I felt like that's where I always kind of go is like, what are we going to do?

And do you do anything about it? No, because we just can't get? And do you do anything about it? No, because we just can't get anywhere, because we do get heated about it. And then we don't know how to communicate these issues with each other. We can't come up with a solution together. Are you guys sick of this,

or are you ready to make a change? Let me just tell you something really honestly. There's a lot of people who are problem oriented. People with problems love to talk about their problems. And I don't know if you noticed, but you problems love to talk about their problems. And I don't know if you noticed, but you both love to talk about them. There's a very small percentage of people who are solution oriented. They're like, okay, cool, we have this problem. Maybe it's my fault. Maybe it's my dad or my mom or the world's fault or who knows? What are

we going to do about it? And then they actually focus their time and attention on the solution, not on the problem. Which one do you want to be? I mean, I feel like I'm like that with so many other things except for this. You just focused on the problem instead of the solution. Did you notice you did that? Yeah. See, it's just embedded into my whole entire body. No, it is a habit that you have systematically cultivated and it rewards you every time you do it because the more you talk about the problems the more you can say, woe is me I can't do this whatever am I going to do oh Chris why don't you come to me with a plan

when you yourself I'm not coming up with a plan and then Chris you're just silent letting her take all the load figure this out she's spinning her wheels and you go hey it's all gonna work out in the end. It's fine, easy come, easy go. I want better for my son, I need to be better, but you're not actually saying anything about it. Yeah, it just, when it comes to a lot of this stuff, I- Don't talk to me about your problems. I'm not interested anymore.

You're going right back into talking about your problems. I mean, you all can answer the question for me in the way you just answered. I said, do you wanna be talking about your problems or do you wanna talk about solutions? And you both talked about your problems. I'm gonna ask you one more time because I really want to be talking about your problems or do you want to talk about solutions? And you both talked about your problems. I'm going to ask you one more time because I really want to help you,

but I can't help you if you don't want help. Okay. Do you want solutions or do you want to ruminate on your problems? I want solutions. All right, then let's do it. This is where things start to change. You can be someone who talks about problems, or you can be someone who finds solutions.

Dominique and Chris have spent years in problem mode, spinning their wheels, going in circles, arguing, avoiding, reacting. How many people are in this exact situation right now? This is called being problem oriented. I got to tell you, it actually feels really productive. Talking about the problem feels like you're doing something. You spin, you complain with friends, you feel angry and righteous and mad. If we're being honest, there's a lot of drama in being problem oriented. It's actually kind of fun. But ultimately,

it's pointless. Because people with problems love to talk about their problems. And while I love the drama and I love listening to people's problems, if they really want to change, they actually need to make one major shift. They have to go from being problem oriented to solution oriented.

That's a profound shift. That means going from, can you believe this to how would I fix this? Let me come up with a few ways that shift can literally take decades. So if you are listening to this and you're constantly telling yourself why things are hard, why it's different for you, why that advice doesn't apply to you, why it hasn't worked yet, constantly complaining about how tired you are, or if you notice that you are stuck in the same cycle. I want you to stop beating yourself up. Zoom out and ask yourself, am I problem oriented or am I solution oriented? Here's another way to think about it. When was the last time I thought about my problems

or talked about my problems? And when was the last time I actually actively went out to find multiple solutions to fix them? Are you problem oriented or are you solution oriented? It's a simple question, but your answer changes everything. Now, Dominique and Chris say they're ready to focus on solutions, let's see if they mean it.

I'm putting the CSP up on screen and we're gonna work through it right now. Okay. All right, this number, your fixed cost number needs to come down to roughly 60%. What can be done about that? The subscriptions can go. Subscriptions are at $184 a month,

how much you wanna take that down to? I'd say to start, $100. Great. What are you going to cut? I could definitely cut my paramount that I just figured out I was paying for. Which one? Paramount. Oh, paramount.

That's like five bucks. Or ten bucks. I didn't even realize I had it. What else? I pay for the Spotify like whole family plan for everybody. That one's 22. Great, you're down to 68%. What else?

I feel like groceries could go down. Today we did pretty good. We spent less than $100 for the week. So. Wow, that's great. All right, what do you wanna put the number at? 400. Yeah.

400, okay, great. I like it. Yeah. Great, 67%. So one of the things that we were trying to do previously was the car payment. So the forerunner is 685, and I'd like to figure out a way to decrease that. Not much to do about that.

You have car payments on two cars? No, just the forerunner. And how would a third car payment affect your finances? I feel like terribly. Chris? From the way the percentage is right now, I don't think it's gonna help at all. It's impossible.

And Chris, I wanna show you how to think about this in a savvier way. Okay, I'm gonna show you how people think about this when they're making really good financial decisions. So the first thing we do is we just look at our fixed costs and we go hey is it above 60%? If so we point blank cannot afford anything more in fixed costs. That's it. End of discussion. If we can't afford it it's a number. End of discussion. Secondly I

noticed when you were describing why you want another car there was a lot of like what happens if one of our cars breaks down and there's an emergency? Okay, what if? What would you do if your car broke down? Trying to get it fixed. Yeah, you call a tow truck and get it fixed, that's it. Yeah.

And can I point out that if you were to have to call a tow truck and even spend 3000 bucks, that's still cheaper than buying a new car, which would probably cost you $60,000. Do you guys see the same decision you made buying a house instead of renting? Hey, let's buy because we're off at this short term thing. And then it costs you for years and years. You have to run the numbers on major purchases, car, house, retirement, vacation.

You have to. The minute you just make a decision, especially based on fear or just like, ah, we need it, you will pay the price. Okay. When is your debt going to be paid off? Do you know the debt payoff date? No. Not at all.

Probably pretty good to know because if you don't, you just feel like, oh, this is never going to end, but that's because you actually don't know your numbers. Your investments, I could sit here and be like, you guys should be investing thousands of dollars more in, and you probably should, but can I just point something out? Yeah. There's no why in your entire financial life. There's no reason behind any of it.

Like for example, do you read to your son? Yeah, every night every night Wow, okay, you know, I've read to little kids Holy fuck Sometimes it's very difficult. Okay, the first time I did it. I was like, how did my mom do this? Anyway, you do it that takes a lot work, a lot of energy, especially because usually at the end of the day. Why are you doing it? Because he enjoys it. Oh, he enjoys it. What else?

I think it's good for him. How so? Because he's picking up all these words. Yeah. All the annoying stuff I just talked about is true, but irrelevant because he loves it and he's learning. That is what a strong why can do. You don't have a why with your money at all. So what would your why be? What is your rich life?

I feel like my rich life would be, and of course, again, it comes to the baby just he never has to want for anything. My rich life would also be taking a trip to Europe at least every two years. I feel like my rich life would be, yeah, let's get Chris's car, you know? My rich life would be, I guess, not worrying. Would you be willing to spend money on therapy? Yeah, totally.

Okay, would you be willing to talk about money with Chris regularly? Yeah, definitely. Okay, what else? What about for you personally, Dominique? Personally? Yeah. Moms and wives often forget themselves. They put themselves last. I want to know about you. I want to get married in Italy. What I really would want to do is be able to pay for my parents to come with us.

So that's a big thing that I want for myself. I love that. Powerful, personal, meaningful, beautiful example of a rich life. I think we could probably make some of that happen. How about for you, Chris, what's your rich life? I do think about more of my son than I do myself or like other things and other people to where they don't really know what my rich life kind of entails

or like what I really would want in a sense. Like I do want to be stable and not be in the position that my parents were in and be struggling like that. You know, my rich life is just to be able to do kind of what I want, what I want and not have to have the worries of if it's going to be feasible or affordable or. What do you want, Chris? Just want to live life. Specifically doing what? I don't really know. I've kind of, I'm gonna get a vlog. My whole like that career, it's still a big thing like inside of me and it kind of eats at me in a sense because I feel like I should have been in those positions or I should have been in a certain area and I didn't and it just kind of like

it's been kind of always an emotional part of me because deep down I want to race. I want to do like happy things, be able to go to the track and be free and do those fun things that I used to do, you know, but after that, I just like, I want to be a dad. Like that's really was a big ultimate goal of mine. And now I am. So really, it's just my rich life is just seeing my son happy and having whatever he wants, whenever he needs it, whenever, you know, it's, I don't really think about myself as much anymore. I feel like, so I don't really think about myself as much anymore. I feel like, so I don't really have like an ultimate answer for that. First of all, I totally appreciate you being so open. It's not easy.

And especially as guys, you're showing a lot of courage. It will be tough for me to be on here answering questions like this. So I just want to acknowledge that when you talk about your racing career, I hear a lot of joy. I hear a to acknowledge that. When you talk about your racing career, I hear a lot of joy, I hear a lot of regret. I hear a lot of maybe my son can do the thing that I did and maybe he can make it to another level. But I said something to Dominique that I want to say to you as well. Did you hear when I asked her, what about you?

I said, mothers and wives often put themselves last. You know who else puts themselves last? Dads. It happens all the time. I'll talk to a dad, usually around the age of 40. I'll say, what's your rich life? What do you like to do? And he is truly stumped the same way you are.

Because men, as we get older, we retreat. That's why there are so many jokes about man caves. They're not jokes. There's so many men who say like, I don't like being around people, you know? And they just sit and it's so unhealthy for us. And it sets a horrible example for kids. They see their dad grumpy all day coming home

on a recliner and I could see some of it in myself. And so I'm trying to fight against that. I'm trying to take guys trips and text my friends dad grumpy all day coming home on a recliner and I could see some of it in myself. And so I'm trying to fight against that. I'm trying to take guys trips and text my friends and hang out and like you mentioned like just have fun, go on the track, whatever it is. So that's why I'm not going to let you get away with diverting it all to your son. But your kid, your son cannot have a rich life if his parents are just empty vessels. Constantly worried, constantly saying, oh, I don't know, it's all for you. No, that's not raising a healthy relationship with money or a healthy relationship at all.

That's just spoiling them. So back to you, Chris, what is your rich life? Having property, having being able to take trips. I've always wanted to go to like Australia. What else gets you going? Like I'll give you some weird examples from my own life. I love nice pens. Like if I'm near a beautiful stationery store, I'm going in.

I love beautiful books, old books. If I see a bookstore, I'm going in. I'm buying something I like. Yeah. Clothes. I like them. Some people don't. That's fine. What do you listen to on the way to work?

I listen to music normally and then when I'm at work Sometimes I'll put on the postgame interview from a basketball game or like, you know motocross I listen to like the there's things like how was your weekend? They interview all the riders and stuff like that, you know, like okay. I listen to all varieties of things. So what I'm trying to get at Chris is what is the thing that gets you excited? Because when I was in my early 20s, for me, which it sounds crazy, but this is what really got me pumped was being able to get appetizers at a restaurant. Because as a kid, I never could.

We couldn't afford it. That was like crazy. It felt rich. Okay. And then to be able to take a taxi, not always have to go on the subway in August, felt amazing. Doesn't have to be expensive to start. I'm sure there's some things with your son.

You know, we want to be able to go to get ice cream on Friday or go to a game and maybe get some nice seats. There's so many different things. It sounds like there's some work for each of you to do to come up with your own rich life and then a joint vision. Okay. A little tip, the more specific you can be, the

better and also please remember that parents having their own rich life and their joint rich life naturally brings kids along But often when you have parents who have no vision themselves and they just go I want everything for my son or my daughter The kids actually don't know how to appreciate it and that's often when parents they try these really weird tactics like saying we're broke We don't have enough people are dying in Africa and the kids like why are you saying this to me? So weird what what does that have to do with me? But that what's really going on there is that the parents themselves are not

Modeling what a rich life looks like to put it another way the question to ask yourself is what do you want your son? To think about as he grows up and sees mom and dad because he's already learning What is he supposed to notice about the way that women interact with money in a relationship? What is dad's role? What is mom's role when they talk about money? Do they smile? Do they hug or do they fight? What's he learning today? I don't think he's learning much. You know, he's not learning a positive at this point But you could change that in a weekend Yeah, yeah And y'all are better actors than he can pick up on, so you can literally act it out if you need to.

There's something I noticed with parents, especially certain types of parents who convince themselves that putting everybody else first is noble. And I get that. I was raised in a culture where parents do that. Kids come first. In my opinion though, kids cannot have a rich life if you are showing up empty. They learn from what you model, not just from what you say. So if all they see is stress and sacrifice

and two people saying, we can't afford it, we don't know, that becomes their normal. So for all the parents listening, I know there's a lot of you, especially if you have not thought about yourself in years. I want to give you permission to think about it. I want to ask you, what do you want? Not for your kids, not for your partner, but for you. Because a rich life is not just about money.

It's about joy and freedom and showing your children what it actually looks and feels like to live well. It's fascinating to hear what people worry about when it comes to costs. We have a friend who once made her husband return the frozen french fries he bought because they were 25 cents more expensive than the generic brand. Yet these very same people have a net worth of multiple millions of dollars and they are paying a big fat percentage to an annual financial advisor to manage that money.

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January for New Year, New You, and in June, right when summer's around the corner. And I love people taking any excuse to get more fit or to start managing their money. But I also notice that the people who are most successful are doing things way before they need to. That's one of the key differentiators of living a rich life, planning for something before you need to. Now, that's true with your fitness. That's true of the key differentiators of living a rich life, planning for something before you need to. Now, that's true with your fitness, that's true with your money, that's certainly true

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Again, let me give you that URL. It's joingelt.com slash Ramit, G-E-L-T. Taxes don't have to be a task. With Gelt, they can be a tool to build wealth. Can we talk about your second house for a second? First of all, the roughly $900 a month that you're underwater on it. Where's that on the CSP? We just took it away from what we're paying rent slash mortgage. When we put the rent mortgage, we just subtracted that exact amount that we're getting from our rent. Okay, can I show you guys something that again, it's a little savvier with

money, but I want to just show you. So, you know, I'm always conservative with my planning because I don't like surprises with my money. But if I'm going to get surprised, I want to be surprised on the positive side. I never ever ever want to be like oh I owe $5,000 that's never gonna happen. You can do the same thing in your life. I'll show you how. So if I were you it requires some short-term tougher decisions but it makes very clear. I would add an extra thousand dollars a month in expenses okay and just to show you how it looks, I would probably put that in savings. I would literally put a thousand dollars a month aside for my house reserve fund. Okay. And that

money would be kept in a separate savings account. And then when the time comes, when something breaks in your house, you're going to have that money. Yeah. You see how that works? Mm-hmm. Okay. Now, you probably don't have the money to do a thousand dollars today, but you could probably start with 250. Mm-hmm. And then as you get more comfortable, you could turn that number up. Okay.

Make sense? Yeah. That's how we think about it. We just, we plan for the things that we know are going to happen. They are going to happen. It's a guarantee. It's just a question of when. Right.

Okay, more on that house. Any restrictions in that area on short-term rentals? I'm not sure. Are there Airbnbs around? I wouldn't say that people are going out there for Airbnbs. Yeah, okay. If you were to sell it, how would you do?

I think we'd be under. You'd take a loss. Yeah. Yeah. to sell it, how would you do? I think we'd be under. You'd take a loss. Yeah. Yeah. So why keep it out of curiosity? I feel like we have to. Because you don't know the alternatives.

Yeah. Ultimately, when we bought it, it was kind of like a reactive thing because we had a certain amount of time to get it out of our apartment and we just kind of were like all scrambled and then we just made a vast decision to do it. But in the city that we bought it in, it's a growing city. We try to look at maybe 10 years, our house is going up in value because the city is growing and it's becoming more and maybe the property value will go up. But yeah, at the moment, it doesn't look too promising because the way the market is

and just different things going on. How much would you lose if you sold it today? Probably about 30,000. Yeah, maybe. You agree, Dominique? I mean, maybe. To be honest with you, I don't know an exact number. It really just depends on how the market's

kind of looking on out there in that area. Have you all done a Zillow search? Not recently. Let's see what's going on in the neighborhood. Tell me how much you would make or lose if you were to sell it. At this moment, we would lose 29. And that's not including transaction fees.

Right. Correct. So probably like 40. Yeah. But then again, you're losing at least a thousand a month. Okay. You have some thinking to do on that. I just want to jump in here to explain because there's a common misconception about selling

a house at a loss. A lot of people assume that they're going to walk away with a lump sum, like money in hand, even if the house lost value. But that's only true if the sale price is higher than what you still owe on the mortgage. If you are underwater, meaning you owe more than the house is worth, then selling can actually cost you money.

You wouldn't walk away with cash. You would actually have to bring money to the table just to close the deal. You probably never heard of this because it's not really talked about. People deep down believe that I buy a house, I sell a house, and I just magically profit. And so when that doesn't happen, they don't talk about it because it's actually mortifying in American culture for this to happen. So when people ask, can we just sell the house and move on? The answer actually depends on the numbers.

In Dominique and Chris's case, this is the exact math they need to run. Because yes, selling the house might eliminate the stress of managing a second property, but it could require actually paying to sell the house. If you are thinking about buying a house and you want some help running your numbers, I've got a free three-step guide to buying a house at IWT.com slash house.

What happens if you change nothing? If we change nothing, I feel like we lose everything. We don't have enough money to sustain it at this point. Like I said, originally, I feel like air conditioner goes out in the Arizona house. Then we're trying to scramble and get all of our money together to, to make up for what we just lost for paying for that. Your childcare costs are about to quadruple. Yeah.

You're losing between a thousand to $2,000 a month every month on your house. You are eating out roughly 10 times more than you thought. And you have two months of savings. What happens in your entire financial life? If we hang up and nothing changes. Gosh. Keep going and trying to figure it out. I guess I don't think anything really changes.

If we hung up right now, I'm sure we would definitely try to make a change because of the conversations that we've had with you and in this process. Would it work? Maybe. Maybe not. What would happen to a year from now, two years, three years from now? I think we'd still just be living paycheck to paycheck at this point, if not trying to scramble to get more money somewhere. Yeah. What's a different vision? Different vision is we get ahold of this.

I never thought about selling that Arizona house. I mean, it's something we could do. I don't want to. I don't care about the house. Yeah. Tell it, keep it, that's up to you. The house is not your life. Trust me, like in the grand scheme

of your entire relationship, this house is a blip. We're already here, yeah. So I'm asking, can you pay me a vision for what a positive outcome would be for the two of you? Like what does it look like and feel like for the two of you? A positive outlook is we get that car that I wanna get, but. Wait, what car is it by the way? I just want like a, like a older Tacoma,

just something, nothing crazy, like a brand new car, but just like a Tacoma, some kind of truck. Okay. So out of curiosity, why do you want a truck? Well, to be able to take my dirt bike when I want to go to the track or something like that. Yeah. And then just also because I carry around a scaffold in the back of a little tiny car.

So it's just kind of somewhere to stick my work stuff. What if you can't get a truck for the next 10 years? Then I'm just driving the car. Okay. All right. That's a good answer. I'm going to do it what I got. But as far like, you know, you're always going to want more. And I got but as far like, you know, every you're always gonna want more. And that's just something that like,

I guess just something that I wanna be able to afford. Yeah, I like that. I respect that. If that's something you wanna set as something you want, we could probably make it work. It might take a while, but if you're willing to make some pretty dramatic changes could probably make it happen at some point.

Definitely. You notice that it's been a long time since the two of you actually like dreamed about what you could do with money? Yeah. It's just depressing, right? Oh God, we're fighting over this and like arguing in the front seat. It's not fun.

Yeah. It kind of explains why you two don't want to engage with money because it's just depressing. There's no vision. But for me, I think you could change things in a huge way. My vision for the two of you is that you talk about money regularly. Every single month you have a monthly money meeting and you both sit down. You start with a compliment. Babe, thank you. A couple days ago our son was throwing a tantrum. You were

so great with him. You took him outside. We could keep eating dinner and I just, I love you. Thank you. The other one says, thank you for planning. You know, you took care of this thing that came up. I appreciate you. I think that you would both have regular savings, regular investments. I think your finances would be largely combined.

Even though each of you would have individual money you can spend on whatever you want. Chris, you'd probably take some of that money and put it aside for a truck. Take you a while, but you could save up for it if you want it. Aminik, you could put it aside and spend it on yourself. Of course, you have joint guilt-free spending money, take your son out, whatever the activity is. I think that your life would be a lot simpler. Right now, there's so much complexity.

You've got this house and this payment and can you send me this money and I don't know that your life would be a lot simpler. Right now there's so much complexity. We've got this house and this payment and can you send me this money and I don't know about my pension and then we get the $8,000 every six months. Your lives are more complicated than mine. Do you realize that? It shouldn't be that way.

And you would actually smile and have fun and be able to talk about what's coming. Hey, we wanna do this wedding. We could wait seven years or let's downsize it a little bit. We'll still go have a beautiful wedding in Italy, but let's do it in a couple of years. How does it feel to even think about stuff like this? That is it right there. That's what I'd like it to be. We do have things that we want. I know it's harder for Chris to express that, but yeah, we do have some things that we want. And know, I know it's harder for Chris to express up, but yeah, we do have some things that we want and I feel like it's totally possible

if we can both be there together and get to a point where we're both there to follow that plan to reach that that vision. But I do want to remind you of one thing, Domini. You in your application wrote that you were thinking you would be co-parenting in the next couple of years. Yeah. Those seem like pretty big thing, Dominique, you in your application wrote that you were thinking you would be co-parenting in the next couple of years. Yeah. Those seem like pretty big differences. Yeah.

The big differences, Chris is definitely working right now. Chris was not working for a while and it just felt like everything was just piling on and piling on, especially because we don't communicate about finances together or as a team or work things out as a team. So I already felt pretty alone at that point. And because I'm an over thinker, I just felt like I'm just going into a hole, you know, and I thought that maybe it would be better if I was just doing it on my own. Can I ask a question? Why didn't you take some money and get a therapist? Because I feel like I can think about this consciously. I just don't know how to get out of it.

And maybe I just felt like it wouldn't have been worth it at the time. Looking back, what do you think? I mean, yeah, I should have. I think that one of the big things too is if communication was better between us and we could actually just talk about what the issue is and get down to it. I feel like that would have helped as well.

What I'm trying to understand is you're gonna have problems in the future. And like when I hear young parents of like a two-year-old talking about like, oh, we might be co-parenting. I'm like, holy s***, that's as serious as it gets. So why not throw everything at the wall? And by the way, it's not just Dominique's responsibility Chris What about you? Why didn't you say hey, I really think we need to get some help and talk to somebody This is not going well. I don't know I shut down in certain situations So I just kind of think I try to take a step back take a step back into getting divorced

now we just we had a lot going on at the time and It's wasn't just money situation. It was just a bad time for us when all, when she wrote all the stuff. But as far as going through all this, yeah, maybe, maybe a therapist would help for us to kind of be able to kind of let things out in a, in a comfortable setting and in a judge free setting and to where one of us is overly emotional about one thing or overly aggressive or overly passionate about another thing and the other person is shutting down. You have these noble goals which are to be better, et cetera,

but clearly you need help. There's nothing wrong with that. My wife and I have seen a therapist many times and I've even hired a financial advisor myself. The fact that you're doing all this alone, it's obviously not working, and it's stressful, and that stress wears on people. And listen, if you guys were making $30,000 a year,

we'd have a different conversation. But at 180, if you ask me, what would I rather do, eat out or save my marriage? That's an easy choice. Yeah. Let me paint the picture for you. I'd rather do eat out or save my marriage. That's an easy choice. Let me paint the picture for you. It's 10 p.m., I have a temperature, a cough. I've just been feeling low for a few days. And I say to myself, okay, tomorrow,

I'm gonna look into something, I'll book something. Then I wake up in the morning, I got back to back meetings, I gotta record the podcast, I got calls running long. By the time I finally get time, it's six or seven p.m. and I have not handled it. Now, what if this happens over and over? Well, that's a real problem. It's not that we don't want to see a doctor.

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Go to zocdoc.com slash Ramith to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z-o-c-d-o-c dot com slash Ramit. Zocdoc.com slash Ramit. If you ask me, what would I rather do, eat out or save my marriage? That's an easy choice. So this is what we're gonna do. You impressed me both when you were talking about creating a better life for your son

But even more when we started talking about your rich lives I think I gave you some pretty honest feedback About the fact that both of you talk about your problems a lot and you are not talking about solutions Part of that is that you just don't actually know the basics of money. So instead of actually like having a language to talk about, it's just like feelings and vague things. And then you fixate like, oh, should we get a car? No, like, should we eat out?

You're actually like missing the big things, like the house. Right. That is a big thing. Here's what I'd like to do. I think that you two can make big changes, but right now there's only so much I can do with you because you don't know the basics of money. So what I wanna do is challenge you

to actually do some homework. If you do it, I'll be willing to talk to you again. And at that time, trust me, our conversation is gonna be way different because you are both going to be connected over money. You're both going to have a vocabulary for money. You're actually going to have made specific decisions together around money. And then you might have some differences.

Hey, now that we've done all this stuff, we actually disagree on these three specific points. Can you advise us? How does that sound to you conceptually? Yeah. Okay. Dominic says yes, Chris. It sounds absolutely. Okay, great. Here's what I want you to do.

I want you to read both of my books. Okay. I want you to start off with money for couples and I want you to alternate on each chapter. So one person leads chapter one, the next person leads chapter two. And I would recommend that you move pretty fast. So if you're a beginner, you're going to be able to do that. So I want you to start off with money for couples and I want you to alternate on each chapter.

So one person leads chapter one, the next person leads chapter two. And I would recommend that you move pretty fast. So if you're a beginner, you're going to be able to do that. So I want you to start off with money for couples and I want you to alternate on each chapter. So one person leads chapter one, the next person leads chapter two. And I would recommend that you move pretty fast. So if you're a beginner, you're going to be able to do that.

So I want you to start off with money for couples and I want you to alternate on each chapter. So one person leads chapter one, the next person leads chapter two. And I would recommend that you move pretty fast. So you know, if possible, you can probably get through three chapters a week. Set aside the time, you all decide how you want to do it. But three times a week, you could be done with this book fairly quickly. Your finances will be radically transformed.

You'll have the right accounts you understand joint separate. You know how to talk about money and both of you will actually have a crystal clear vision on what your rich life is. Including for your son. Okay then you go on to the i will teach you rich book much more specific in terms of things like investments. things like investments, you're gonna be like, where do we put our money, etc. Just so you know, we ran a little calculation. If you were to keep continuing doing what you're doing right now, not including the pension, because we don't know anything about it, you'd be living off $9,500 per year.

You want to live on that? We couldn't. Exactly. Yeah. You couldn't. So obviously you need to be able able when you talk to me to understand How much is the pension worth and what are we doing with that? $8,000 every six months I could tell you right now you should put it in the CSP and then when you get paid it should flow

Out you'll learn all this stuff in my books now. We're going back to the questions I had because that's okay guys eventually it was gonna come but so how do we go about? I had because that's okay. Go ahead eventually it was gonna come but so how do we go about? The credit cards because that's kind of a it was kind of a thought in my head when I do get some of this money I definitely do want to put it away Some of it and then I do want to use some of it to pay off my credit cards and things like that So I'm not in so much of debt. It's a good idea So let me tell you two things you should do. First of all, you should already have a plan before you get that money.

So you should know at least two months before how much are we gonna get and what are we doing with the money? We always think in percentages. So whether that is 4,000, 4,500, 5,000, in your case it might be 80% of it is going towards credit card debt, 15% towards savings, and 5% towards guilt-free spending.

But second, and more importantly, you don't wait to pay off that credit card debt. If I'm you, I'm like, okay, wow, we're actually going to calculate how much money we are spending eating out. We're going to cut that by 80% overnight. We're going to eat out once a week as a family and we're gonna spend all week looking forward to it It's gonna be amazing We're gonna look at the menus online and that's gonna be our special time and that's it Because we are taking all that money and we're building up our savings account and we're paying off our credit card debt right now

You two are in a very precarious position two months of savings, especially with a recession potentially coming who knows You do not want to be out in the cold. Right. And finally, that second house needs some solution. Just doing what you've been doing is not a solution. If you're going to keep renting it, okay, but you need to have a very specific set of rules. Here's how long we're doing it. If price goes up, we're going to do this.

If price goes down, we're going to do this. And here's when we're going to make a decision. So as you can see, this is a lot of work. One person can't do it. It's going to take two. As you start getting into the details of it, you know, there'll be moments where you're like, what the ****? What are all these numbers?

I never heard these phrases before. This one, you need to pause. You need to do two things. Number pause, you need to do two things. Number one, you need to remember your why. We're doing it for me, for her, or for him, and for our son, for our family. You need to get good at money. This is a skill.

And then the second thing you need to do is probably talk to your partner and just be like, hey, I'm feeling pretty stressed. Maybe I need to take tonight off, but I would love it if I could get your support. Maybe you can help explain some of these terms because I just don't get it. And we can look it up online together, but I'm

feeling this way and I'd really love your support. That's how you do it. How does that sound? Doable. It sounds like we can definitely do that. Yeah. Okay. Chris, you good?

Yeah. All right. So loved, loved the response. I actually would really look forward to speaking to you again. And I think when we talk again, Oh, I would be so excited to see your updated CSP because there's a lot that can be done with that CSP. Once you understand your numbers and you understand all these words, you're going to look at this and you're going to be like, Holy s**t.

We actually make a lot of money. Like, wow, we can transform our life. If you decide we want to get married in Italy, you could do it. If you decide we want to get married in Italy, you could do it. If you decide we want to be multimillionaires, you could do that. But you have to decide nobody else is going to do it for you. Okay. Now, before we wrap tonight, what surprised you most about this conversation? I mean, to be honest with you, just you telling us that I didn't think that that

was possible, but if you believe that, then that makes it easier for me to believe. And that makes me feel more confident leaving this conversation because we actually have a set, do this, do that, do that. And that's how it works easier for my brain. What's interesting about that comment is it's another example where I can see something in someone that they can't even see in themselves But the reason you can't see that you can go to Italy for your wedding or be Millionaires is that you don't understand the basics of money and so what you've done because you don't understand it you've Catastrophized your natural inclination is just like oh, it's gonna be the worst ever and it's over

We're screwed and then Chris your natural inclination when you don't understand money is just like. Will figure out it'll be fine let's just do whatever we want to do and then like it'll work itself out notice that. Yeah alright Chris what surprise you most about this conversation just how uneducated we really are about money and how much like we are just kind of. about money and how much like we are just kind of I don't want to say wasting but wasting money in a sense and things that you don't really see until you kind of put it on paper put it right in front of your face and you're like oh like this is really what's going on with everything yeah yeah you're being unconscious about it mm-hmm there's not a lot of conscious spending conscious saving, conscious

investing, right? It's pretty reactionary. I think that's pretty accurate, but that can all change quickly, alright? And how are you feeling now, Chris, compared to the beginning of our conversation? From the start, I was very willing to learn and that's why we're here, because we want to learn and we want to do better and be better. So I feel like I have a little bit more of an understanding on the path that we kind of need to take and the steps we need to take to get to where we want to be. Dominique, how about you? I feel so much better now. And I think I was really nervous about starting this conversation because I knew it was going to be a tough conversation to have.

Now that we're here, I actually feel a lot more positive about it. I realized that a change can be made and I know that we can make it. All good conversations are tough. Yeah. All valuable ones are tough in one way or another. If they were easy, they would have been done 10 years ago.

Correct. Speaking of feelings, you know, part of the journey that you two are gonna go on is radically changing your relationship with money. And even with each other, there's a lot of catastrophizing, a lot of overthinking, because you clearly get a reward out of that. Chris plays the part of the quiet guy who's kind of like, I don't know, I'm just learning, very innocent dough. Neither of those are gonna cut it

in this new future. It just can't happen. If you want to get to the level you want to get to where you have a healthy relationship with money, with each other, with your son, you just can't be doing these roles. You have to actually change it from the inside out. One way I would suggest it is to come up with some phrases where you actually both diagnose, hey, in the past, in Dominique and Chris 1.0, we, dot, dot, dot, felt guilty all the time. We blamed each other.

We had the role of judge-er and judge-y, that kind of, write them all down. In Dominique and Chris 2.0, We are, let's do one each. Confident. Nice, confident. Okay, Dominique. We're open. I love these words.

Write these down when you get a chance and you put them on your fridge. And it's so amazing. You're starting to actually create these beautiful family rituals. You bring your son in on it. You know, when one of you is talking to the other, hold on a second.

Oh, we're gonna ask mommy or daddy to say that again, because I didn't hear him. And in our family, we are open. That's how you start to do it. Bring him along for the journey. But it starts with you two. I'd love to talk to you again. I think that there's so much more we can explore.

And truthfully, the next time we talk, I think it's going to be an incredibly deep conversation, especially now that I've gotten a chance to know you. I personally look forward to talking to you again and having a better vocabulary and better answers and just more confidence in what we're saying and what we're speaking of and how we want to do what we want to do. I really enjoyed this conversation. I talk about money a lot. As you can tell, I love it.

But what I especially love are conversations with people who are just starting their financial journey. People like Dominique and Chris. I love these conversations because I can go underneath the numbers. I can hear the actual stories of their lives. And if they make changes, those changes can ripple through their own lives and multiple generations.

Now, sometimes in these conversations, I get frustrated. I think that happened today. I also have a lot of compassion for them because they didn't grow up learning all this stuff. I'll never blame somebody for not knowing everything there is to know about money. But now that they know, I believe it's their responsibility to act. You know, saying, I love my son is a beautiful sentiment, but building a rich life takes more.

It takes commitment. It takes learning a new way of thinking. It takes running the numbers even though it might be hard at first. And I truly hope that they make that choice. Now let's check out their follow ups. We were given the task of reading three chapters a week, which we have. So I don't think that we realized how difficult it was going to be to dream like about our perfect day or our 10 year bucket list list but it's something that we're working on. We have also set our time and date for our money conversation and we have completely cut

out our mindless spending so no takeout, no coffee, no 7-eleven trips, completely cut. We've canceled most of our subscriptions that we weren't using anymore. And I moved over my money into a high yield city news account. We've also had more conversations about finances with family and friends just to make the topic less taboo. We purchased the book for my sister and brother-in-law. And we plan on meeting together to just talk about finances, just make it a normal conversation.

So, yeah, that's our week one. After we released part one of their episode, my producer reached out to let Dominique and Chris know that the episode had aired. She received this email in response from Dominique. I appreciate you reaching out. I did see it was posted and part of me was nervous and scared. But Chris and I have really been trying to work on ourselves to best understand each other and we feel good about everything as well.

I started reading comments and then stopped, but I did watch the video over and just looking back at that made me feel so much better about today. I do apologize we did not complete our videos as promised. I think we both got overwhelmed and we started to argue more, but we really wanted to take a step back and get back to basics with each other. We really appreciate you reaching out and we feel good about the conversation with Rameet. I'm not really satisfied with that response. I'm happy to hear from them and I hope all the success. But I just want to speak to everybody listening to this podcast.

I don't offer to speak with a lot of guests twice. I made that offer because I wanted to continue our conversation because I think we are on the cusp of something major here, a major breakthrough. And there have been a handful of opportunities in the last 20, 25 years of my life where somebody made a similar offer. They said something like, hey, if you have any questions, let me know. Or if you're ever in town, let's go out for coffee. And I want you to become more aggressive about life. I want you to stop being passive with life. And if you ever have the rare opportunity where someone offers to help you and they genuinely

want to take advantage of it, get aggressive. Nobody trips and falls into a rich life. If you have the opportunity, whether it's a book, a program, a mentor, or somebody just saying, let's go out for coffee, take advantage of it because it truly can change your life. As always, I want to thank you for listening, for watching, and I will see you next week.