I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 3. “My husband is going broke, but he won’t let me help”

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Calvin feels he needs to be the “man of the house” and pay for everything. There’s just one problem: He can’t afford it. Every month he’s in the red, leading him to be anxious around money. Chantha likes to spend money on nice things and feels Calvin is too cheap with his money. The two of them feel stuck because of their different views on money. And, to make things even more complicated, Calvin – by conventional definitions – is rich. He and Chanta bring in $250k a year, and based on their savings rate, they’re on track to become multimillionaires. As you listen, notice their backgrounds. What led Calvin to feel this way about money? What motivates a husband to take on such a burden and how can Chantha and Calvin find a middle ground of comfort where they can build a future together? Pay particularly close attention to our discussion around vacation at the end of the episode. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin Produced by Crate Media.

When we look at the venue, I look to the right, but I book the hotels or car rating, I click on the sword by price. Like a lot of people, Calvin has a problem, spending money. Makes him feel anxious, makes him feel guilty, and I wanted to hear his story to understand why. Where did this come from? And how is it affecting his relationship with his partner, Chanta? Calvin has always wanted to be the man of the house

and take care of everything until he came to me and says he keeps going negative after paying for everything. Before we go deeper into this episode, what's your first guess? What do you think is going on here? I'll give you a hint. Let's start way back in Calvin's childhood. Take a listen. I had to do it all with phone calls, collection agencies, credit card or deferring payments, what and I going to like payment plans and I did all that. I knew all that stuff. How old were you?

Elementary. What? Hi, my name is Rameet Saiti. And today, I'm talking to Calvin and Chanda. Now, they've been together for three years. And until recently, Calvin has insisted on paying for just about everything. The problem is, he can't afford to. And he obsesses and agonizes over money.

He feels anxious. He's always looking for the cheapest price. Now he's in his mid-30s and together, Calvin and Chanta make over $250,000 a year. They have over half a million dollars in savings. So why does he feel so bad about money? Let's find out the clues. We'll see what we can do together.

What's the most important thing that you can do to get a job? What's the most important thing that you can do to get a job? He's great. He wants to pay for everything. But the struggle is he obsesses and stresses out over everything also when it comes to money. And so I've always talked to him about contributing

a percentage of our paychecks into a household expense and combining the household expenses. But Calvin has always wanted to keep a lot of things separate and he's also wanting to guess be the man of the house and take care of everything, right? Until he came to me and says he keeps going negative after paying for everything, our expenses are pretty high. I think I'm paying for too much stuff and therefore that's in that in terms it makes me worry about money, worry about the cost of everything, always look looking for the cheapest

route or the most cheapest alternative and I told her I think that you may not feel that way because you're doing fine because obviously I'm in a negative. You must have extra money because and you must go okay and I don't. Yeah, I think Calvin's two years late on that when we first moved in together. I had discussed this with him in the beginning because I didn't expect him to pay for everything and I'm more than happy and more than willing to pay for my share. And I think him struggling and realizing that he cannot support the both of us, especially with the way I spend, according to him. And so I think that I'm glad he finally realized it. I think if he had sat down with me and looked at the numbers and went through everything together from the beginning, when we first moved in, I don't think he would feel this much anxiety. I realized it a little bit late.

I've taken about 120,000 a year. Okay. I get that he wants to pay for everything, but Chanta also has money of her own. Let's find out what's going on with her. Tell me how much you make total per year. About 130,000 a year. Did you catch that? Chanta actually makes more than Calvin does. Now, there's an obvious solution to this problem, and that is for them to reallocate

the way that they do their spending. For them to spend proportionally, so Calvin's spending will go down towards their joint account, and Chantas will go up. That just makes sense. And actually, right before we recorded this episode, they made that change. But I still wanted to talk to them to find out what had led them to all this financial anxiety, because I suspect there's something a lot deeper here. We redid our math just a few months ago. So would you say you contribute roughly the same amount that she does? Yeah, that will be our good. Okay, it would be really easy to end the episode right here. Okay, we made a quick change in Excel.

Boom, done. That's what so many people think money problems are. They think they are a math problem. But money problems are almost never a math problem. They're much, much deeper than that. There's something else going on psychologically, something that caused them to get to this point. And now we're going to have to find out what those clues are. Let's start with the fact that Calvin

felt he had to pay for everything. What do you think that is? What do you think that comes from? Originally, I told her, you don't have to give me anything. I'll just do what I can on my own. And eventually eventually that didn't work. So then she started trimming a little bit and still not working out. So we went with this new route where we kind of put into a joint account

to pay for joint expenses. Before you're running into the red, how's it working for you now? We just started in the beginning of March for us coming up in a few days and we'll see how it goes. But it should be okay because we really calculated all everything out to figure out. And then we came

with an average amount that we would need to cover everything including grocery shopping, potential dining and even gas. So it should be fine. Okay. Good. I wanted to be the man in house. I wanted to provide as much as I can. And also, I just wanted to see how much I can do on my own. In the event, she doesn't want to work anywhere, or can't work anywhere. Let's unpack that. What does man of the house mean to you? Basically, take care of everything financially.

Pretty much that, actually. So pay for everything. And then what happens fast forward, maybe you decided to start a family, what happens? And then I won't be a afforded. Yeah, that could become a problem. Yeah, okay, you guys came in here as if this was a math problem. This is not a math problem and I'm really happy that you've both fixed up the allocation. That's awesome. But this has not been solved at all. We still have work to do.

Because the real problem is not on the spreadsheet. In fact, put the spreadsheet away. The real issue here is way deeper. It's not going to be found in Excel. The way they restructure their finances is good. It's probably going to help prevent Calvin from going into the red every month. So I'm really happy to hear that. But there's more here emotionally. There's more behind how Calvin felt that he needed to provide for both of them, even though he couldn't do it financially.

And the reason that I want to push on this is that if you just paper over a problem, if you don't really understand the causes, then it will come up again and again and again. And with money, especially money in relationships, we want to get to the root cause, we want to fix it once and forever so that we can move forward and create our rich lives. I feel like we value money very differently. I like every dollar counts to do, where I think for a campus, sometimes this, sometimes the like convenience is more important, or the convenience is more important or the luxury is more important. I look at the price tag record pretty much. I assess whether or not it's worth it

and whether or not I can do it myself or we can find a cheaper elsewhere or do you need it? And we could walk there instead of getting a cab or something like that. Okay. So let me give a few examples. You tell me if you would think about the price for this. When you go to buy a car, do you comparison shop for prices? I do. Okay. When you think about taking

a vacation, do you comparison shop for locations or hotels? Okay. And when you go to the grocery store, do you comparison shop for the type of spaghetti sauce or lettuce that you're gonna get? I do. Yeah. So everything. Yeah, everything. Like, organic, we need organic. When we go on vacation, somebody will spend money and it does make joy. It's the process of getting there.

It's a lot of calculations and weighing out costs and the value of things. And if you spend an extra 500 bucks, you think it would give you more joy? No. Hmm. Okay. And what do you think if I asked Chanta that same question, what do you think she would say? I think she's the opposite of everything.

I say it. She values, like I said, she values more of the convenience, organic. doesn't matter, cost more, doesn't matter, and ballet partying. I'm like, no, it's so hard, it's so hard, it's so like that. Got it. It's a complete opposite. So let me understand, I want to know the advantages of this approach because I think there are a lot of advantages of your approach and then I want to know what your approach might be costing you. So let's start with what are some of the benefits of your approach? Behaviorist's server purpose. There are biological behaviors like we sleep when we're tired and we cry when we're sad.

But then we have other types of behaviors like comparing the price of everything. Now they usually get us something. Some sense of comfort or status or saving money. But if you take them too far, they can start to cost us a lot. And that's what I'm trying to find out here. What does this cost him? I like knowing that I've gotten the best price possible. I don't like overpaying for anything because again, I just, I work very hard for my money and I'm not. She thinks we're well off. I don't think we're well off financially. And so I try and spend as little as I can or save as much as I can.

Keep in mind, they make almost $300,000 per year. That in terms, mixing like very, like, not materialistic, I don't shop for expensive clothing, I don't drive expensive cars. That's just out of the question. You're not materialistic. What else knowing that I got the best value or the best price that we could get some of for whether it be like a vacation or food or anything. And what is the advantage of knowing that you got the best price?

I didn't overpay for it, anything. But what's the advantage of that? I didn't use more of my money and a salary for our money and a salary. Okay, very good. All right. What are the disadvantages of your approach? Oh, I know that and a salary. Okay, very good. All right. What are the disadvantages of your approach? Oh, I know that this is bad. It's time consuming.

We have research, like on and right way out, this versus that versus this versus that. It does take time. I know it does take time. I know it does take time. Any time and it just had a kind of test to get to disagreements and stuff like that. So those are what you get by disadvantages.

That's it. Just the word disagreements. Well, like you called me to come talk about this. Clearly, there's a lot of... We disagree and it becomes an escalator. Because I'm more about that. Because we disagree because we don't see eye to eye on it. And so she thinks it's, she doesn't understand why.

Why I'm out shopping till the cheapest one or the best value to bargain. And I don't understand why she doesn't buy it. It's not a priority. Okay. And then thirdly enough, Chantal, let me hear from you. I think I'm reasonable, I save money, but I do live life.

I think that our difference, Calvin doesn't understand how to splurge on himself. And I do that a little bit more. Whether it's myself, my friends, my family, I definitely like splurge on gifts for people. We work hard to make money, so I feel like we should really enjoy it as well. But I don't think that we should spend everything that we make as long as you are you're saving and you have a balance, I believe more about having that balance. Calvin, do you agree in having balance?

I do. Okay, so that's good. You both agree on balance, maybe you just don't agree what balance actually is. That's exactly right. Well, okay. I don't think I make it enough for the way she wants to live. That's the thing. What would you say this ranks in terms of the issues that you argue about? Is this the number one thing or is it in the top three?

What would be the top three? Chanta, you agree with that? Absolutely. Top three. Okay. What happens if you both continue on the way that you've been going? You're three years into this relationship. It's somewhat early on. If you change nothing and you keep going on, what do you think happens? I'm taking a detour here because I understand their issues.

Now I want to see if they understand how serious this is. A lot of people I talk to initially write in with this huge problem, but when we start talking, they minimize it. They'll say, well, it's not really that bad. You know, we only fight once in a while, but overall things are pretty good. Now, that might be, but a four out of 10 fight about the price of chicken wings can multiply and calcify and amplify, especially after 40 years of marriage

and two kids in a mortgage. That's why I'm doing something called future pacing right here when I ask them to imagine the future. I think there will be a lot more disagreements and arguments about it. And overall, we wouldn't be happy and it'll be hard to coordinate or plan anything or just making a plan for anything

or revising something, going somewhere, doing something. Yeah. On a scale of 1 to 10, how serious do you think it is today, and how serious do you think it could become? I think it could become very serious, because when it went into talking in terms of having a family and stuff, I see her as no limits in expenses. But we would have a kid.

I know we need to do this for the kid. We do this, we want this for the kid. No, I want only organic. I don't really talk shelf items. You know what, I don't trust the school system. I want them to go private school and all that stuff. That's all money and money that I don't have or I don't feel like I have.

I'm gonna object to certain stuff, and then you know, it'll lead to me being a bad father or husband or whatnot. I think you're right. I think that it is a nuisance right now, maybe a little bit more than a nuisance, but I think that as you fast forward and as you're both thinking about a family, they've become way more complicated. Financially and values wise, from what I hear so far, you don't have an effective joint philosophy.

You have two individual philosophies which contradict each other. And so luckily you're relatively high income, you have low expenses, so you can kind of paper this up, right? Look at it, you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings. Do you know your savings rate? I save on my own about 20% of my income. They're very savvy with the technical aspects of money.

They're spending less than 11% of their gross income on housing. That's extremely good. They know their numbers, they know their savings rates. That part I'm not concerned with, it's the other part, the what else part that's concerning. What are you gonna do with this money? How do you know when you've won?

What is the purpose of a 10.5% spending on your housing? These are the questions that are not found in a spreadsheet and they are much, much harder for people to grapple with. I decided to go back to Calvin's childhood, learn a little bit more about what he grew up with because I think it has a big, big hint about what's driving him today. It was like, it was that my dad paid for everything.

My mom for months, a lot of, many years of her adult life, she didn't work. And eventually she did. And just, and even then, I think she didn't pay for it. And she saved her money. And that's how it was. It didn't work out though, because there were always of the financial troubles.

Why did she go back to work? Maybe it was to help out. My family did not make a lot of money, and my dad was very poor with managing money, racking up credit card debts, collectors calling, bad credit spores, all that stuff. Writing checks that consistently got those insufficient. My parents never had enough money for now. Do they ever say anything to you that made you feel as a kid that you or your family didn't have enough?

I think their English was very bad. So of course I had to do with all like phone calls, collectors, collection agencies, credit card you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, helping my family with their financials is a little kid. And because of that, you know what? I never asked for any of my parents. I never participated in any extracurricular because I thought it would cost me to have money. I never got any toys, I never asked for anything.

I didn't go to my prom and I didn't do anything because that wouldn't involve money. I just didn't want to bug my parents on about it. and draw money. I didn't want to bug my cash on about it. I can't have been easy to have I wasn't. Yeah. To take on that adult role as an elementary school kid,

that's unbelievable. Suddenly a lot of Calvin's financial anxiety makes sense. He's been living with a worldview of scarcity since he was an elementary school. And he's been living with a world view of scarcity since he was an elementary school. And he's been fixing money problems, catch that word fixing, not seeing money as joy, but as a problem to be fixed and managed since he was a little kid. So we can sit here and tell Calvin to spend more on organic cheese, but because of his lived experiences, he literally sees money differently

than Chant that does. You told me that when you were young, you said not enough. And then as you got older, going to prom and schools, it almost seems like you just didn't even ask. What did you start to believe about money as you grew up? I don't want to be like not having to not have enough money for things. Are your family still in the same financial situation? They're better not because of me.

I still help them monitor it and manage it to the stage. It's hard to explain, my dad is just really forward. He just killed right at a check and sends it out. And then he goes to the ATM or withdraws whatever he needs or would draw from cash or then sees that the balance on there and thinks that's much less left. Not realizing that there's two or three checks that's floating in the mail system that's going to potential

to people that are going to be depositing it. And he ends up insufficient fun. And I see it because I log into his account once in a while and check and I don't know what's going on. That's got to be frustrating and also something that you've been doing it for what 30 plus years must be something you just learn to live with. Yeah, we grew up in Hawaii. I came here when I was 17.

So in the year 2000, I got them into those credit debt payment plans and stuff like that to get him out of it. And he did, he actually, I made sure he was on track and then eventually he got out of it. His credit went back up and he was doing really well and I think he's fallen off again. But now I got my sister, my younger sister, to help out with managing. I just set up like direct payments and automatic payments for him and stuff like that. So it's when he writes those checks that he just does

understand that that writing a check it means that's what the money is going to be. He just doesn't realize that. He's always like, wait, I thought I saw my ATM receipt. I still had a thousand dollar in the account. I was like, yeah, but what about the final check you wrote two days ago? The questions that every purchase. He questions kind of their every move and decision, but I see why he had to. That's a lot of responsibility for him to hold.

And he still continues to carry on that responsibility. It's just hard because I see it affecting us and our finances and how he questions a lot of the things that I buy as well. But I always try to remind him, I'm not in the same financial position as his parents. I think it's pretty cool that Chanta understands Calvin's childhood actually affects him. That understanding is, that's not going to make their money problems disappear, but at

least that understanding is a really great sign that the two of them can take this journey together. I will say, though, I'm not sure Calvin has actually connected his childhood with his financial behaviors of today, the anxiety, the constant comparing costs of everything, and the stress that is putting on their relationship. There are a couple things that drive me insane. One, when I post a picture eating Mexican food in the LA and 7,500 people helpfully tell me that their favorite hot sauce is topatillo. And second is getting spam calls or spam texts on my phone. I mean how many times a day do you get a call from some unknown

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Babel, sign up for an account, and use promo code Rameet That's it dot com slash b a b b e l code remit r a m i t and you think about your own relationship with money today. What role do you think that your family upbringing had in that relationship? It makes me just never want to be in that position. Because what? No, I just don't want to. It doesn't help me. It's going to cause a problem. But I don't like that. That's why I don't feel good when I'm in the month when I'm in the red. What happens if you get into debt? It's hard to get out. Yeah, what else?

I would have to work more to make the money. What happened to your dad as he got worse and worse with his money? Again, him and his mom began to argument financially and you're there too. That's it, I mean, my dad, I don't think he cares too. That's it. But I don't think it cares. It seems like it cares. I don't think it cares.

So how come you care? Because I think it's going to fall on to me in the event that anything happens. Because I'm the one, I'm the one that's the most successful financially on paper, the most successful in our family. And you've been doing it for so long too, you've been helping it in a city ways. Yeah. Yeah. Did your parents look at the prices of stuff when you were a kid? They do, but they don't weigh it out and how much work and stuff. Like they don't they don't they don't weigh it out much work and stuff like

they don't create sell mom no nothing no no that's them and they just buy it and they don't think about it too much about it up until this day they just buy unnecessary things they don't really divide too much of things they they should be buying and when they do that how does it make you feel? It frustrates me and I get, I actually get tired and it's the damn two. Yeah, and when Chanta buys valet parking, how does it make you feel? I don't like it either.

Yeah. Any connection between the two? No, the only connection is just I don't want to spend the money for that because I don't think we need it. I'm wearing a pretty nice shirt right now. I don't need it. I don't need it at all. I could have bought it at Target. Target has very nice clothes, but I decided I like it. So I bought it. What do you think about that? Is that unnecessary? No, but if you can afford it, then that's fine. Good. That's a great answer. Now, how do you

know if you can afford a valet parking? 15 bucks, let's say. Yeah, and I've told you that, I told you that, and when I pay my bills and I'm not in the red anymore, then maybe we can figure ourselves, we can figure out if I'm in the red, we shouldn't be being paid more for luxury. If you don't... Can't the do you agree with that? Yeah, I agree with that. Okay. Okay, good. We have a lot of zone, a big zone of agreement here, still feeling out the zone of disagreement.

So do you both have any money rules that are important to you jointly. We don't have any money rules yet. For example, I read your book. I follow you, you know, like all about using your points for playing tickets, hotels, and I'm all about that. And Calvin is too, but he micromanages how we spend our points, our free points. And so it's, how we spend our points, our free points. And so it's, I think if we come up with some good money rules and it would be good for us to both follow because in my mind, I see them as free points. It's okay how we spend it because they're free, but Calvin completely disagrees

and has his own way of wanting to spend it. I'm moving on from Calvin's childhood into their spending with money today. She's sometimes when people talk about their childhood, they instantly get it. They can connect how their upbringing is causing their financial issues today. But sometimes they need more time to make those connections. It needs to sit and sell. So let's shift into how Calvin and Chanta spend on vacations now.

Now jointly come up with a money rule that would serve both of you. Yeah. What would be a rule that both of you could feel good about? My general rule is no valet. We can walk. That's something can come up right away off the head. Of course, you say it like it's a surprise. We all knew that's it's a given. I was kind of hoping for a money rule that would give them permission to spend more here. But at least he's trying. It runs deep inside you that you want to spend as little as possible. I get that. That's your natural inclination.

And like we talked about, that can serve you in a lot of ways. You're probably never gonna run out of money. But again, what do you think the downside of that is, Calvin? Yeah, this time. That's one. What else? I like to get really bad quality of things.

Calvin, when you go on vacation, you want to stay at a holiday in? First of all, before I met her, yeah, I stay at a holiday in. Okay, fair enough. First of all, I got nothing against holiday in. I stay there when I was a kid. It's a great family hotel. But Calvin, can I point something out to you? Yeah. I don't think Calvin realizes just how wealthy he is. And I know for a fact that he does not realize how wealthy he will be.

You are going to be a multi-millionaire. Did you know that? No, that sounds great. You already are a multi-millionaire. You don't even know it yet. You just need time. I already calculated how much you have and how much you're contributing. You are already a multi-millionaire.

You just need to let your investments sit and keep compounding. And the more you add, the more it's going to grow. Now, let me ask you this Calvin, let's say you're sitting on $3 million. Do you still wanna stay at holiday in? No. Okay, good. Let's say you're sitting on 500 grand. Do you still wanna stay at holiday in?

Yeah. Okay, a million? No. Wow, so at a million bucks, it changes from holiday into your willing to stay somewhere else. Is that right? Yeah.

You can afford more than a holiday in right now. Do you know that you are rich? No. Yeah. Because ever since you were an elementary school kid, you've been poor. So you have gotten a great job. you're an elementary school kid, you've been poor. So you have gotten a great job. You have a very good income.

It combined with your girlfriend, Chanta, you have a very good household income. Your savings are quite good in terms of percentage per year and your expenses are low. And yet, this is not a math problem. This is all psychology and so it's funny you even just said at a million dollars you would switch away from a holiday but a holiday in costs 150 bucks a night. That's a decimal error. Do you see how it's not a math problem here that there's something else going on? You're already rich and you're

getting richer every day. But until you can internalize that, you will always hold on tightly to parking, hotels, salad, burritos, whatever. And look, personally, I don't care if you want to go for a cheap burrito and that's just not important to you. My car is 16 years old. It's not important to me. Still works. It's a great car, Honda, love it. But there are other things that I buy a really nice vacation. And there are even some things where I say,

I'm gonna give myself no budget. I will spend anything because it's important to me and I can afford it. So, Calvin, hearing that, how does that strike you? It feels good to hear that, but I think because we're looking at it in a long term perspective. For me, it's just down to the end of the month. This is really common with people who have anxiety around money. They look at everything month to month, and that is as far as they can look.

It's kind of like driving in the fog where you can only see 50 feet in front of you. Of course you're going to be nervous, of course you're going to be going slow, of course you're going to be worrying about all the things that can go wrong. You're only seeing 50 feet in front of you. My job is to zoom out and show you the big picture. Your rich life, not just your rich month. The funny thing though, even though you're living month to month, you've managed to accumulate six figures in savings. That's no joke. And yet you are

Obsessing words that I heard today obsessing you're talking about like $10 expenses But you have over $200,000 in savings both independently and jointly Do you know how much your money right now turns into by the time you're 65 if you just keep contributing the the same amount, any idea how much it turns into? No. Take a guess. Five million? It's a good guess. Three point six million. But if you wanted to make a five million, it wouldn't be that hard. Five million bucks! What do you think is going to change when you have 5 million dollars? I mean, I wouldn't worry about those things anymore. You think? It's just magically overnight you're just going to stop worrying about all financial items. What happens overnight then?

Yeah, I will look magically overnight. I think about it. Never have those songs there, yeah. But that doesn't. If you got 5 million dollars tomorrow, you know what you would be doing the night after? What? You'd be on Expedia comparing the prices of holiday in, and you'd be like, let's get a sweet at holiday in.

Oh, thank you. Believe me, you think you would magically change an entire lifetime of restricting yourself just because you have money in your bank account But you already have hundreds of thousands of dollars and you still treat money like you're poor I think Calvin's very hard on himself and he's very Modest as well and I try to get him to celebrate even small wins. And he, it's really hard for him to do that. And so I hopefully coming from somebody else like you and not me, I feel like I'm his biggest cheerleader anyway, but coming from you, I hope he internalizes that

and really starts appreciating what we have and worrying a lot less and having a lot less anxiety because I feel like a lot less and having a lot less anxiety because I feel like a lot of the times it's what's in his mind that really hurts him. One of the best ways to learn is by actually doing it. So let's try it right now. Let's dream a little. I'd like you to take 30 seconds to think about what is on your bucket list, the things you want to do in the next 10 to 15 years. Big things. I'd like to be able to travel and go to those multi-country trips and do all the

extir, exterrions and all that stuff, not to worry about what's going to cost. How can only other countries have been to is this London once that's it, I've never been anywhere else. What's the place that comes to mind first if you could go anywhere? I definitely want to go back to Southeast Asia. My aunt lives there right now in Cambodia. And I've always wanted to... She domates a lot to the temples and I think a few temples now and she's retired there. But we've always talked about the school's am a teacher and so there's lots of just time I want to donate to either teach English to help rebuild the school to do something good like that

partnered with my aunt to help the community because that's where my family is from. I want to go there too. We talked about it and we had some sense to eventually do that. Originally it was last year, but in the pandemic we shut and we had some plans to eventually do that. Originally it was last year but in the end of the pandemic we cancelled it. We held off a book in A.T. because we weren't sure I was going to happen. So do you think of when you can soon? Maybe next year. That was right now. I would still be the way I am and so probably like

to factor out the cost for everything. right now, yeah, I would still be the way I am and so probably like backed out the cost for everything and he would probably stay with my aunt. Where I would want to go to the hotels because there's so much cheaper our dollar goes a long way there and I would not want to stay with my aunt. I wouldn't want to stay with her aunt. I would probably wouldn't pick their resort there that's equivalent to a forced season so that's equivalent to a forced season, so that's equivalent to the rich Carlton.

I don't classify as being that level. Let's say that's like a 10. We don't need to say a 10, we can say that it's out of seven or eight. I love that you both are into going to Cambodia. I love it. I would like for you to both sit down and I'd like you to talk about dream trip. When you first start conceiving this trip, you're not going to talk about cost, then you're

going to think about how much you can afford and then you can go and plan it. I suspect that both of you may disagree on how much you can afford. Anybody have a sense of what number you think you're gonna come up with? Like, 6,000. Okay, Chanta. Yeah, I was thinking 10,000. Oh, you guys are in the range.

Yeah. Seriously, at least it wasn't 6,000 and 60,000. Ha, ha, ha. That's it. You guys are so close, Do you realize $4,000 out of $250,000 of income every year? That's like nothing. That's awesome. You guys are the Calvin. Let me ask you a question. If both of you said, if you said six and she says 10, Do you trust Chanta? With anything. Not, I don't trust her with making fun. But I wouldn't trust her to like book a trip for me or

why is that? Because it's it's gonna be four seasons, ballet, parking, and room service, that's the right. And what's going to happen if she does that? The premium package and stuff. And what's going to happen then? This is called the So Then What Technique. When people are worried about something with their money, I ask them, so then what?

And I ask them again and again. And usually the very thing they feared is not that big of a deal at all. It's a big deal at the end. And what happens then? We can't afford it. I'm answering that's that's question based on how I feel right now. I totally get it.

I totally respect you for being so honest. He's almost there, but I just need to get Calvin a little more comfortable with the idea of spending. So I'm going to do an inversion exercise with him. Let's rewind and this time I want you to answer every answer in the opposite way you just answered it. Just play for just 20 seconds with me. Watch. Do you trust Chanta? Yes. Would you trust her to book a trip for you? Yes. If she booked a trip for you, would it be at a beautiful hotel with beautiful room service

and all that stuff? Yes. Could you afford it? Yes. Okay, how did that make you feel to say? Can we actually do this for real? Because first of all, you can't afford it. Second of all, you have a trip coming up.

So let's just play it out. I'm not going to tell you what to say. It's your money, both of your money, and it's your answer. But let's play it out. Calvin, do you trust Chanta to book a trip to Cambodia for you? Yes. Chanta, do you understand where Calvin is coming from when he's sometimes concerned about you booking a trip for him?

Yes. Okay. about you booking a trip for him. Yes. Okay. Calvin, do you think that if Chanta booked a trip, it would be a memorable experience for both of you? Yeah, I know, I will. Chanta, do you think you would ever regret going to Cambodia with Calvin?

No. I hope not. Calvin, would you trust Chanta to handle all the airfare bookings for this trip? Sure. I would. I think you should take a moment to really celebrate that because that is absolutely amazing what you just did. Chentha, what do you think? I just want to go give him a hug. And you a hug as well.

That simple answer you just gave me shows so much of what you've done in this conversation. Are you psychologically prepared to acknowledge that for a trip you take once every three years, the prices are basically irrelevant for you? Yeah. It's a big change. It's a big trip and then the experience is going to be important. So, yeah. I have to trust Chetta with all the looking and stuff. I love it.

I love everything you just said. You just talked about experience. That's your money lens on this trip. And you trust her. What could be a better experience than starting out by saying I trust you? If you've enjoyed this episode, follow and subscribe to I Will Teach You to Be Rich

on whatever podcast platform you use. And please, leave a rating and review. It really helps us, especially because we're so new to the game. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next week. Here's what you'll find next week on the I Will Teach to Be Rich podcast. I feel like it's a huge weight that we're both caring.

Like John was a second kid, he's thinking about it, and I'm just like, no, like we have to pay this off. We need to make this into manageable amount. And then we can do something else. It's like, I want to cry. Like, oh my God, how come it's not getting any lower? you