Ideas - The best comedians in the U.S. are Canadians

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

Canada produces legendary comedians and comic actors who excel on the world stage. So why is Canada not known for comedy? Does it have something to do with our proximity to the U.S., the way there are so many Scottish comedians performing in England? Three comics discuss Canadian comedy and what Canada's profile would be on a dating app — as part of the Provocations-IDEAS festival.Comedians in this episode:Debra McGrath is a comedian, writer, and director whose comedy began with Second City Improv. She is best-known for roles in Little Mosque on the Prairie, Seven Little Monsters and Paradise Falls.Stewart Reynolds (aka Brittlestar) is a Stratford, Ontario-based comedian. His work has brought him to the White House, and to meeting the Prime Minister. He's the author of The Subtle Art of Resistance: Lessons From Cats For Surviving Fascism.Martha Chaves has made many TV appearances including Just for Laughs, We’re Funny That Way Festival, and the Winnipeg Comedy Festival — and she’s often been heard on CBC's Laugh Out Loud, The Debaters, Because News — and now IDEAS.

In Beale City, Michigan, life is usually predictable. Everyone knows everyone and nothing stay secret for long. But then two teenagers start receiving dozens of anonymous texts a day. Messages that go from unsettling to threatening. The kind of harassment that tears friendships apart, puts families at odds, and leaves a whole community wondering, who would do this? I'm Kathleen Goldhar and this week on Crime Story, we uncover how thousands of anonymous messages

tore through a tight-knit community. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Good evening, Stratford. How are you guys doing? Welcome to a full house. And welcome to ideas. I'm Nala Ayyad.

We're taking you to Stratford, Ontario. We're in May, 26. We recorded a live discussion on stage. And now, CBC Ideas, hosted by Nala Ayyed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can you hear me all right?

Okay, let us know if you don't, because otherwise I won't have a show. The show is about us. Canadians, Canada, who we are and who we are not. And whether comedy, culturally speaking, is our Canadian shield, something that defines us and maybe even protects us and our aspirations. So we are here to talk about comedy as a Canadian shield, how comedy shapes us as Canadians. Now, as you can imagine, there is a danger in saying that, because talking about comedy kind of has this way of sapping the fun out of the evening.

But there won't be, I will try to promise this, there will not be any earnest or hand-wringing, dry-as-dust discussion here because I am joined by three award-winning performers who I know you're going to love listening to. Their credits are legion and their accomplishments are so vast that I'm tempted to say that we need no introduction but that wouldn't be polite or Canadian. So how about a Canadian compromise and a really brief introduction? And I will begin on my left here. Deborah McGrath is a comedian, writer, and director, whose comedy Bonifides, yes, Bonifides, this is ideas, began with second city improv and is best known for roles in Little Mosque on the Prairie, seven little monsters, and Paradise Falls,

and recently, the series Harmony Gardens. Welcome, welcome. Next, Marta Chavez. Her many TV appearances include Just for Laughs, We're Funny That Way Festival, and the Winnipeg Comedy festival and she's often been heard on CBC radio on Laugh Out Loud, The Debaters, Because News, and now ideas. Welcome, Marta. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Last but not least, Strathford, Strathford's own. Thank you. Thank you. Brittle Star, aka Stuart Reynolds. Apart from his many TV appearances, his work has brought him

to the White House and to meeting the Prime Minister. And of late, he's become the best-selling author of the book, Lessons from Cats for Surviving Fascism, Translated So Far into Nine Languages. Welcome, Stuart. Thank you. I have a very general question for all of you. Maybe we can start with you. Okay. When we say Canadian comedy, that of course presupposes that there is such a thing. Can you just tell me what in your own experiences convinces you that there is, in fact something called Canadian comedy? That is a really good question. And of course I've worked with so many fabulous Canadians.

I'm married to one of the great Canadian comedians, Colin Mockery. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was a wise choice. But I'll tell you what I do think we have a distinct sense of humor. I think because we laugh at ourselves, I think because Canadians, Canadians do not take themselves too seriously, which is why, going back to Agent Orange and his

51st date, we suddenly went, this isn't funny. It was like a rousing, you know, elbows up, as they say. I think because from coast to coast were storytellers. And funny storytellers, I grew up in a family, Scottish, Irish background. We got together. There were stories. There were songs, there were guitars, there was my grandfather played the accordion. Everybody laughed all the time. And I think that's who we are. Okay, that's pretty good evidence, Stuart. I think one of the superpowers that Canada has and Canadians have is this ability to be objective about things. It must come from being so close to the U.S. We're always just on the outside of the action. So we get to watch what's happening. And we get to also learn for it. So it's kind of like being in a sibling

relationship where we watch what they do and go, it was kind of cool, but I don't want to do that necessarily. I don't want to punch down. I want to make sure everyone's included. And it's, yeah, it's a weird sort of power that Canada has where we can be self-deprecating, but in a way that it's still filled with pride, which is weird.

Marta, there's another way to ask you this. Maybe this might be, well, this is how I'm going to ask you the same question. If Canadian comedy had to write a profile of itself on some dating app, what do you think it would say? It would say, I am very funny, but nobody knows it because we don't have a big industry.

It's not that we don't have comedians. I have worked 33 years touring with comedians everywhere, even in little, little tells in Timons, Ontario. And I tell you, there is a lot of comedians. And the best comedians in the United States, I can tell you, are a Canadian. Yeah. Yes. That is a fact. I think we know that.

Yeah. What other adjectives can you think of if you're describing Canadian comedy? Sounds like maybe humble? Well, in stand-up, for example, we practice a lot. Whereas in the United States, it's so cutthroats. They just have the little five in Los Angeles. They just have five minutes here, five minutes there, and we hone our acts. We did it for a while.

We moved to the U.S. You know, it was great. But when I was down there, very pregnant and then had our daughter, I felt different. I felt like I wasn't one of them. You know that scene, an invasion of the body snatchers, at the end when Donald Sutherland, she's so happy she's found him,

and then he walks to her, and then he goes, ooh! That's what I thought. that at any moment they were going to me out of there. I just wanted to go home. And my husband always tells people every time I heard Joni Mitchell or Neil Young,

I would just ball my eyes out. I feel like such a Canadian. And I missed it. And we chose to live the lifestyle we want rather than to pursue the career that might have given us a different

financial lifestyle. Was there a moment? Was there something that happened that persuaded you know it's time to go home? I never loved it. I'll be honest. My husband is the most adaptable creature on earth. And I would say, and now we're going to Bermuda for 10 years, or wherever. I never liked it. I felt I didn't know where I was.

Ron James, the great Ron James, always says home is looking around and knowing where you are. And I thought that was a great thing. Because I didn't know where I was. and you know the writers and the show their advice to us day one and we said oh please give us what's happened what do we do? A gun in the car

and a gun in your house rubber shoes by the door a bag of money and I thought we're not in Kansas anymore or rather we are in Kansas and I'd like to go back to a hero so yeah we tried it and it didn't work for us

and yet tons of friends down there love it and I get why they love it But I'm Canadian. And yet, Stuart, one of the things that shapes Canadian comedy is our proximity to the U.S. Just expand on that. How so? Yeah, I think we get to, I mean, exactly as Deb said, I felt like you can, you never feel like you fully fit in the U.S. when you're in the U.S. I always equate going to the U.S. is to go into Disney World.

And if you've been to Disney World, I love Disney World, by the way. You go to Disney World and you go to the security and that guy is like 84 years old, pokes around in your bag, checks for whatever handguns or something, and he looks in the bag and he looks you in the eye, he knows you're not going to try to move into Disney World. He knows that eight hours, you're going to be leaving there, not talking to your family,

poor, sunburnt, but generally happy, you'll come back another time later. I equate the U.S. to that, and that idea of it's fun to go to, fun to watch, but it feels, as a Canadian, it's like, I prefer safety. It's life, liberty,

and the pursuit of happiness in the U.S., and it's peace order and good government in Canada. I like that one better. I'm Medicare. But, you know, I don't want to make too many comparisons to other parts of the world, but I lived in the UK for a long time for my job. And there, there seemed to be a preponderance of Scottish comedians who seem to kind of have this dual role, dual sort of view on society in the UK.

And I wonder whether there's something like that at play with Canadians and Americans. Marta, yeah, do you think that? Yeah, it's being the fish out of water that you play. But I went to Los Angeles several times. I had great management. They wanted me to move there, and I didn't like it. I started touring there, and all the comedians speaking bad about other comedians, really cut throat.

And I love my community here. I love it, so I decided I didn't want to live there. although people were telling me you're Spanish, there is a huge market there and I'm like, no, I'd rather be here. I mean, they're the dream as far as show business.

They're the dream. But they've got the money. They've got the producers. There's so many people making art down there. It's a machine. So we always look there and think, oh, wouldn't it be nice? But then

you've got to decide what's your priority. So how does that affect the tone and the feel of Canadian comedy, being able to watch what's happening there and saying, that's not what we're doing. We're doing something different over here. Because we're also watching Britain. I really think, I know this is an old trope maybe, but we grew up largely very connected to British television,

British relatives. So we have both. We take from everything. UK, US, and I think we sort of found our pond in the middle. Stuart? I was going to say referring back to the Scotland, England thing, that idea that it's a very apt description of Canada and the US

because of course it's almost 10 times a population of England compared to Scotland. But Scotland's very, very different. There's one of my favorite shows in Scotland is still game and fantastic show if you haven't seen. It's amazing. Ask anyone in England if they know about it. never heard of it. Their island is tiny. How do you not know this? But it's a different culture. There's definite difference in culture between the two. More so in Scotland and England compared to

Canada and the US. Actually, I was just in Scotland. It's in Scotland in September for the first time in a little while. And I spent a lot of time in England, specifically London. And as I was walking downtown in Glasgow, there was three young woman out on the town. And when you go from London to Glasgow, London's high to fashion, when you go to Glasgow, it's a blood sport to go out tonight. This is fun. You're going to do things. And these three women walking down the street, and without missing a beat, just to underline the fact that I was in Glasgow and not London, this young woman pulled down her trousers, proceeded to pee, and kept

walking without missing a stride or the joke that she was telling her friends. I thought, I'm home. She's great. So your point about Canadian comedy then? I've seen more than my fair share of Canadian women do the exact same maneuver. But they're much older and can't help it. Speaking for a friend. Okay, we're done here. We're done.

What do you think? How does the way we do comedy here, now that we've sort of defined it, although I still think there's more we can say about it. But how do you think the way you do comedy here help shield us as Canadians? Deb. Shield us. Yeah.

Being from our stronger forces coming from the south or elsewhere? I think because our humor, it does come from our heritage, which is a lot of old country heritage. It isn't just this country we stand on. And I think those traditions are deep in us. So we take that humor and we're gathering our people to love. It always feels like humor in Canada is a community event.

Yes. It's like you're in the kitchen with your friends. Yeah. And it is different from province to province. It is different. I grew up in Quebec. I started doing comedy in Montreal. I was an alophone.

Yeah. Yeah, because I wasn't either English nor French. I was an alophon. So I was a minority inside of a minority. And then to expand my wings, I moved to Toronto, and it's different. And when you go to Newfoundland, the humor is totally different. And when you go to Halifax, they are obsessed with. with telling you about the Halifax explosion.

Yeah. Because it's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's tragedy plus time. Tragedy plus time. But they are very, very friendly. Whereas if you go to the prayer, it's another kind of humor.

But I think that what unites Canadian humor in general is that, that is in community, that is born from, probably because it's cold and you have to tell jokes to work. your bones up, you know, when there was no television or no internet. Tell me a joke and I'm going to be warmer. That's right. I completely agree with that. We underestimate the impact of the weather and the environment in Canada. We were very much a, we spent a lot of the year together indoors in the same spaces.

And I think it's great, especially when you can share jokes and humor and funny stories. It brings a sense of community. There's that warmth that comes up from sure. For sure, but it also, I think, in relation to the U.S., specifically, it's nice to have inside jokes. I can say a joke about Sobe's. Nobody in America knows what the hell I'm talking about. Mention Zairs, it's even worse. Like, what the hell is a Zare?

There's some satisfaction in that. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And they have Baywatch and we have the beachcomers. And one of them was very hot. Yeah. No, no. But I mean, let's face it, we're also not putting down the U.S. for Americans because they've got some killer comedy. They have some killer comedians. It's just that we can be proudly different and still love them and aspire to some of the things they do. You mentioned elbows up earlier. And I want to, I want us to all cast our minds back to the threats that Donald Trump made to Annex Canada to make us the 51st State.

And it was comedian Mike Myers who popularized the elbows-up gesture in response, which, of course, in case you haven't heard it and you're under a rock somewhere, it's a reference to hockey legend Gordy Howe, who was infamous for his elbows on the ice. What do you make of the fact that it was a comedian who entered that fray? It had to be. Yeah, I think it makes sense. I agree. Tell me why. Why does it make sense? Marta. Because the creature, what he hates the most,

is that you laugh at him or when he doesn't understand something and he didn't understand at all what elbows up was or anything. Those Canadian people, they are crazy. They first say, come from away and then they said, don't come from away. And Mike Myers is an expert in Dr. Evil.

So, you know, he knows the evilness, yeah. Mike is also a lot of friends, especially friends in L.A. and most Canadian person they know. my kids actually and I know that when the Prime Minister asked him but you live down there he went yeah but I'm

and that's the other thing he's got to live down there I mean that's his world now and then you love it I mean who would love New York City I think it it needed to be a comedian because there's power in making people laugh

okay so so I guess thinking of that decision for the Prime Minister to choose Mike Myers to having that ad during the election campaign. You know, looking to a comedian for credibility says something about the time that we're living in. What does it say?

What does it say? I think it says one of the great things about comedy is that it's very powerful, as Deb was saying for sure. But it's also, it underlines shared reality. For things to be funny, we all have to know the reference point. If we don't know the reference point, it's not funny. And comedy has an amazing ability, its power is derived in the fact that it puts people's defenses down.

You're not going to argue back right away of something funny. I think that's really powerful. And Mike was representing us in that moment. And I think a lot of us glommed on to that, having not thought of it before. We jumped on that bandwagon because it was a great concept and we needed to do. I mean, beyond the, I'd like to ask you how this whole conversation changed your comedy. So we've put that aside for a minute. But, Deb, you actually went beyond your actual comedy and produced

ads to promote buying Canadian and, you know, those pro-Canada ads. It also included Rick Mercer, Ron James, and Scott Thompson. Again, why so many comedians? I'm going to keep asking the same question. People were dying to do them because, and not to go down this rabbit hole,

but I was frightened. I think we were all frightened. I don't know that we're not still because the thing is still got stuff up at sleep. And I think getting together and saying by Canadian and do these things reminded us something

we needed to be reminded of that we can't rely and nor should we be relying because we've relied too long and we have let them carry us we have and we can't deny that and I think all of a sudden

somebody is saying not only do we have to pull away from it we must pull away from it we must build our own country and saying it with humor and reminding us all the things we have going for ourselves. One of the things we have going is the box wine from Saskatoon because people are not drinking booze from the States anymore. But is Canadian comedy endangered? I mean, given, is it? No. I don't think it ever. I don't think so. I don't think. I grew up in Nicaragua fearing an American invasion. And then

I come to Canada, I watch for many years, enjoying my free health care since I am a hypochondri. And now it's in danger. And now it's in danger. But, you know, we are changing in a way. There is a kind of unity among comedians. A lot of people have come back. Of the people that have that left, they have come back.

Because they don't want to be there, basically. And you know what? We're essentially, this is the bad and the good. We've allowed them to be our... Sure. What's the word I'm looking for? Anyone? Protector? Wives. Yeah, protector.

We've allowed that, and they have done it. But by the same token, we are a peace-loving folk. We just are. We don't want, you know, we don't want any of the trouble. No trouble, no guns. And health care. That's what we want. So that's how it affects politics. I'm curious how it's changed the way you do comedy. This conversation about the possibility of annexation,

about us being 51st, how did it change the way you do comedy? The rage. The rage. So besides going down to Niagara Falls and picking fight for the merit. The menopause. No, but it is, I find that it is, I find that. this is no game. I hear the trumpets of the apocalypse

every morning on Facebook. And then I think that we have to say how great is our country. There are a lot of people saying that our country sucks. There are a lot of people saying that, oh, there is an invasion of immigrants and I feel affected. And all the Uber

drivers I go with also feel affected about that. You know, because they also don't want to be American. None of the immigrants want to be American. No, no. How is your comedy changed? I changed. I mean, when I started doing comedy as a thing about 14 years ago,

it was like dad jokes and very sort of simple, sort of fluffy, non-threatening type of humor. And then, as I noticed, the world was kind of changing. And I've never been interested in politics. However, it sort of seemed like we passed a line between politics, which is like tax policy

and whatever, all the boring stuff. And then you get into like, oh, this is not ethical. This is not right and wrong stuff. This is like people's rights to just live and be free and be happy and be healthy. I think I should probably use my platform a little bit to do something about that. So it's, I'm thankful I had a little bit of a platform to do so. And it feels important. It feels important to kind of, when I don't do stuff that's political,

if I do too much of that stuff, I feel myself I'm being negligent if I don't do it. How much of that shift is, how much is writing this book in 2024? It was before Trump times two. How much is that part of the shift that you made into the political world? Yeah, so the book with Lessons from Cats for Surviving Fascism, but your favorite bookstore now. Or actually, I'm in the lobby right now if you're here. It was written actually a couple weeks after Trump was reelected. And I thought, you idiots, I can't believe I was stupid people.

I'm going to give them the stupidest combo ever, cats and fascism. I thought it was ridiculous. Then I started writing it. And over the chapters, I thought to myself, oh, God, this is actually getting a little more serious. This is like animal farm, but funnier. What's the main message of the book? Like, what were you trying to do with the book? I think the message is there's a weird, we've got access to so much information now through social media.

We've all got a phone, a computer in our pockets, and our purses, whatever. And we've got so much information, but we're also so malleable currently. We're so compliant. We're so apathetic sometimes because there's so much information. We just kind of let it wash over us. like, I can't deal with this today. And it's really important to take breaks from consuming news, but you have a responsibility to yourself, your family, your community,

your next generations, to be aware of what's happening and actually realize, oh, this actually might be taking a bad turn. We should maybe do something about it to stop it before it gets too horrible. Comedy as our Canadian Shield. My on-stage discussion with Stuart Reynolds, Marta Chavez, and Deb McGrath took place as part of the Provocation Ideas Festival in Stratford, Ontario in May 26. This is Ideas. I'm Nala Ayyad.

Let's face it, nothing is more earnest than talking about Canadian identity, unless it's talking about Canadian comedy. So, talking about Canadian comedy may not be the most appetizing subject on the intellectual menu, at least not at first. But as our discussion went on, patterns of comedy and identity began, and to emerge more fully, especially as we got into how politics and political identity have become so embedded in our everyday lives. Marta, back to you for a minute, because I know you teach stand-up comedy.

So I'm curious how much more politics enters into your instruction to your students now than it used to be before. Well, you know, I try my best not to impose anything of, of, of, of me, you know, because here I show up at college, all boys. They were all boys in a course. And they grew up during the pandemic, so they were feral. They were feral. They have not gone to school with other people.

Like they didn't know how to relate to other people. And there goes the middle-aged Nicaraguan lesbian to teach you, stand that problem. So you know what I mean? I didn't want them to say, oh, she's a middle-aged. posting us like what she thinks and everything. So whenever I have a, let's say, a badass in the class who wants to do what they call, how is it, they call it,

edgy comedy. And they think that edgy comedy is aiming down and pointing out, you know, like, I think that you can say anything if you aim up, if you're attacking power. But why are you going to attack a powerless community? In that instance, I put my foot down, but otherwise, if all you want to talk is sex that I know you're not having, because I've seen you. No, no, because I've seen you. You know that it's kind of like they learn it from, I try to influence them, but not that much.

Influence them by example, yeah, let's say. Deb, if we agree, if we're agreeing here that Canadian comedy is part. of the so-called resistance to... Oh, I like that. Yes. To the U.S. or to the influence of the U.S., what can Canadian comedy do

in shielding us that other forms of Canadian resistance can't do? Right now I'm thinking of what the resistance would wear. I've gone there. Not billbox, not beret. Anyway, I'll think about that. What is it? Now you've got it truly...

I'm wondering what can you accomplish by using humor in talking about what's going on between Canada and the U.S. That you can't do with politicians or newspaper writer or opinion writers or shows like mine. I think you've got to appeal to the common denominator, which is we're all people. I mean, I know we're mad at the politicians there and the people that voted for him. But we also have to remember there's at least half of the people that didn't and are suffering. more than we are because they're humiliated throughout the world and many of them don't deserve it. So I think we have to, you know, think more about what we have in common and when we're writing,

when we're performing something. Think more from the perspective of the people, what we are, which is every day we are people just living our lives. And when you were talking earlier about, the things you don't. I read the newspapers every day and I'm to the point of oh that's as much as I need to know about that. That headline says it all. I'm flipping. I'm telling you I'm desperate for the obituaries just so I can get a laugh and I'm turning turning, turning pages and that's it. I feel we have to live the biggest but the simplest version of our lives right now. We have to we have to gentle ourselves. We have to laugh. We have to go to the movies or do the fun things with friends and we've got the season for that coming because it is so dark. So we have to be light and we have to

laugh. And they always say, tell Canadian stories. And I always think, what is that though? Well, those are our stories, just how we live our lives. It can seem similar to Americans because we are similar in many ways. You've all touched on how different Canadian comedy is to American comedy or humor, and I just want to kind of delve into that a little bit more.

For example, those celebrity roasts in the U.S. where a famous person is essentially insulted over the course of the performance, is that kind of format welcome or imaginable here in Canada, Deb? I don't know, we're so takeoff, eh?

like that's what our roast would be. It would actually be called take off A. And when we were putting them down, we just go, well, take off A. I don't feel they're quintessentially Canadian. I don't know. I wouldn't want to be a part of one. But that's just me. They do have the roast battles Canada.

They do. They do. Okay. And how would you compare them to the brand that we see by down south. Well, the roads that you see in the United States are famous people.

You're roasting people that are not famous. So the people at home don't know what are your trying to make a living. So, you know, and then you're going to go to work in Timons, Ontario, together, and then you

insulted each other, and it's going to be awkward. No, I refuse because I know they're going to call me fat, I know they're going to call me old, I know that they're going to talk about my accent, they're going to talk about the lesbian. I already know what they're going to say, and the people at home will go,

and they can't pay. But it's not my type of humor. I don't like it. Not very Canadian, is it, Stuart? We were talking earlier about the roast from the 70s and how they were a bit more clever and a bit smarter compared to the ones that happened now. And there are some funny parts that happen in the roast,

but it's usually quite nasty all the time. I think it's something that's, that kind of nastiness is a very, to me, kind of an American trait. I related to sports, I remember having this woman from Manhattan who was about 92 years old, she said to me, the difference between Canada and America is that America is baseball. America is one person at bat at a time. You're on a team, but it's up to one person to make the next point.

That's it. Whereas Canada is hockey. We're a team all the time on the ice, which is totally different. Is that true? Do you guys agree? Is that true? I've never thought of that before.

She was very wise and in turn I sound wise. You 100% do. No, it's an interesting concept. And, you know, now we've got heated rivalry so that up again. We've got the team and the team. But even John Rivers said after her roast, John Rivers, and you know how she was,

that she could roast anybody. She said that she was on the verge of crying. So why would I put myself on that and that predicament? You have to carpe diem. Like the day that Trump threatened that he was going to nuke Iran, I was doing the keto diet. And then I said to myself, what if Trump blows up the world?

This week on two blocks from the White House. America's top court is set to deliver decisions on more than a dozen. major cases in the coming days. We're asking, will the Supreme Court allow Trump to end birthright citizenship? Join me, Katie Simpson, and my fellow Washington correspondents, Paul Hunter and Willie Lowry, as we break down U.S. politics from a Canadian perspective. Find and follow two blocks from the White House wherever you get your podcasts.

And watch us on YouTube. New episodes drop every Wednesday. And I didn't eat the fucking cookie. You have to carpet him. Carpe de cookie, I say. Carpe de cookie. And those are the wise words from the show, Carpe de cookie. I can say, and I didn't eat the stupid cookie

so you can put it on the radio. We could stop there too. But, Stuart, you know, we said we wouldn't be earnest, but maybe this is kind of an earnest question. But where do you draw the line between something that's, you know, in bad taste, versus something that's a lot harder, or maybe even hate speech.

Like, how do you draw the line? Where? I mean, the golden, like, I say golden rule, I don't know if that's a bad thing or not anymore. The main rule is that you don't punch down, as Marta says. You just don't. Because it's not good. It doesn't help anything. I feel, again, being aware of having a platform is important,

realizing that your words matter, and they impact people. And, you know, I remember, I often compare myself to Oprah. your words matter and you know there are a lot of there are a lot of warriors freedom of speech out there this guy the other day on facebook he says to me you're just a fat ugly dyke and then i said i said to him why are you saying that that's not polite why are you are you telling me that and he goes it's my freedom of speech i can say whatever is my freedom of speech when he said that it was his freedom of speech to comment about my looks,

I went to his family photo album. And I said to him, your little daughter looks like an alligator. And then and then he became for censorship immediately.

You have to learn how to defend yourself. I feel there's mixed messages happening here. No, I'm saying freedom of speech doesn't mean you have to go around insulting people, but you can defend yourself.

Sure. Right? Back to the idea of punching down. Yeah. Stuart. What you do is you find some guy's ugly kid. No. He drew first blood. He drew first blood.

But I mean, you're not going to stop people from saying what they want. Yeah. And freedom of speech is a very real thing. There's no two ways about it. I, you know, am the proud mother of a trans daughter, a beautiful, beautiful girl.

And there are some comedians and some authors of famous books about wizards who seem to think with these people mentioning no names, you figure it out, that are cruel like you pick on the most vulnerable people in society. So my

choice about them is take your freedom of speech. I support that. I don't support you. I don't have to listen to you. I don't have to pay money to see you. But you can say what you want and I'm sorry that you feel that that's what you want to spend your time saying that.

Yeah. So I think the bottom line in all of this is that we really don't like bullies here, do we? No. Yeah. Take off, eh? Yeah. It goes to the weather again. It's that idea of like, you know,

you're going to end up shoveling out someone else's driveway because someone's going to help you shovel your driveway. So it's the weather, it's community. We have to rely on each other. Canada is not big enough to be all about the individual. We need to help each other. Yeah. But that's another thing that is different from Canadian comedy and American comedy.

In America, at the moment, there are a lot of people that think that that is the goal of a stand-up comedy. Just talk about minorities, these minorities, and they don't realize that, oh, yeah, it's a little joke, yeah. But morons listen to you, and they don't. may come and beat the person up. You know, like it's called stochastic terrorism, I think is called or something. Like, you have a microphone, why are you going to use

it to these people that cannot defend themselves? Because you can't think of anything clever to say. No, but there is a wave in the United States about that. And it's contagious, and we are trying to push them from... Yeah. I have just a few more questions, but I want to remind audience, this is a good moment. If you have a question, you've got your pencil and piece of paper,

you can write your question. We'll get to as many of them as possible. We've covered a lot of ground. But if we agree that comedy, Canadian comedy, is part of the arsenal with which, and I don't mean to use war metaphors, but the arsenal to resist Americanization or American culture or American politics, what is your most potent weapon or your most powerful shield? As a comedian. Deb. Oh, this is going to sound so pretentious and corny, but truth, telling the truth.

I do talk about family, friends, little things that happen. I'll tell it very quick. Yes, please. Because this is an example of what I find hilariously funny. Our daughter's name is Kinley. Our dog's name is Lillipette, the third, named after her most wonderful majesty, Queen Elizabeth.

And so she was out walking a little bit, and a neighbor came by and said, oh, what's your dog's name? And our daughter, I shouldn't have brought it up because I won't get through it. Our daughter said, her name is Kinley. And then she went, what have I just done? Why did I say that? The concept of her thought process, as she stood there and she said, Mom, I was going, say something, say something, tell her that the dog's name isn't

Kinley. Say something. Oh my God, she's leaning down. She's about to speak to Kinley. And then the woman starts to go, oh, who's a good kid? Who's a pretty Kinley? And Kinley said, I had to look away. I'm laughing. And now I can't say, my name's Kinley. And I can't tell you why I said it was her name. That's the kind of thing I find very fun. Right. Situational. Things that we do in our everyday lives that are mental. Right. And that we know are. And yet we, we We do them. And as Canadians, we laugh at them. We laugh at ourselves. See, I was doing a full circle there. But we laugh at the stupid things we do. And that's what I find funny. And that's why, and it's American, but when he came out with Ted Lassau, that was an example of punching

up. And doing a fun, kind thing. And I think there's a lot of that to be done. We laugh. as hard as that at that as we do at cruel stuff. Right. I love the idea that truth is kind of at the heart of, you know, making comedy as potent a weapon as, again, to use that word, as it is in resistance. What else is there? Truth, stories.

What else? What's that? Vulnerability. Vulnerability. You have to be vulnerable. Yeah. To be able to communicate with people and then you open a little bit. This I learned from the beginning of standard because I had hangups about the accent.

I learned that if you make fun of it first, it doesn't matter if the other ones make fun of it. So my first joke was, I know that you think I have an awful accent and I don't give a cheat. That was my first joke 30 years ago. Like, what's his name? Nate Burgas He's like vulnerable. Vulnerable, vulnerable, doesn't care making himself

look like a jerk and people love it. It's true. Yeah. So truth, vulnerability. In the Canadian way. Sounds like an ad. You just took my answer, Deb.

I'm sorry. Inclusivity, I was going to say. Oh, yeah. But that's part of vulnerability as well, an idea of including people as much as possible. You can make fun of something that's happening. I can make fun to something in Alberta, but as long as I'm not making fun of people

just from being Albertan, it has just be funny in general, that's all. Again, keeping in mind that comedy is part of the Canadian idea of resistance, but how do you put the serious into the funny? Oh, I think they sort of go together like bread and butter.

The comedians, to me, are the saddest people on earth. We don't want to end there. That's it. Good night, everyone. Yeah, because I think Deb's right. They are so close together there. So that sadness, like you cry laughing. I mean, that's a really good easy example to point out of that idea of like your defenses are down and you're feeling things. And that's how you put the seriousness in it, I think.

And it's a really lovely way to live if you can get to the point where you can find laughter in the really dark moments. Yeah. Because they're going to come. Yeah. A friend of mine said, we've had a few friends. get sick lately and she went, oh, we're in the room now. And then we laughed about it. Yeah, we're in the room and we want to redecorate.

You've all said this in one way or another, and we all know this. It's a fraught time. Political polarization is everywhere. Threats are bubbling up from our southern neighbors and the rise of extremist politics. Just in your own words, where do you think Canadian comedy fits into trying to address that picture? fits in what is the role what is the role what should be the role

today in this context I honestly think that the phrase you do you works for that keep being who we are don't so often

we try to change and be more American and fit into their daft ways and I think it's better we know what we've got going on. And the world is knowing more and more what we've got

going on. So I would say keep it going. Joy is resistance. And I'm going to have a good time to spite them. That's my motto. It comes from my mom. My mom will say you're going to have a good time if I

have to break every bone in your father. So that comes from my mother. So I said, yeah, I think joy comedy is resistance. It's like we have to laugh because I'd rather go down laughing than crying with a cookie. I think for a long time Canadians felt a shame to be proud of being Canadian. And I think what's changing now in entertainment specifically in comedy specifically is that it's okay to be

proudly Canadian. You can make fun of Canadians, you can be self-deprecating but also fiercely loyal to Canada at the same time. You can be really happy about milk bags, bring up milk bags. We were at an event in Ottawa, and a couple came up to me and said, listen, we've seen your post about milk bags, and you cut both ends. I cut both ends, my wife's some crazy. Who's right? The marriage depends on this. I said, well, you have to leave your wife, obviously, because she's an idiot. You cut both sides. This is very, very connected to what we were just talking about. How does humor give you hope? Deb. So it's the thing that truly keeps us going, gets us through a day. It's why so many people, when they meet someone, when they fall in love, or what was it? It was their sense of humor. People often joke, it was sense of humor because they weren't attractive.

So I went to the sense of humor. But truly, it is the sense of humor that attracts you to someone. And I don't mean that they're funny. I don't mean that they're a professional. They get it. They know how to laugh. and what's funny. Yeah.

Do you want to add something, Marta? Well, it gives me hope of, at the very least, I'm having a good time. I love to go making people laugh, like all the people that I talk to at the stores and everything. It's the accent, I know, it's not the material. But they laugh. But they laugh. I love to make people laugh. I love to make people happy.

And it's also a Nicaraguan thing. Yeah. Like, we are very much like a kind of. Indians in a way. In what way? Like, for example, in Nicaragua, we have the same address system as in Newfoundland. You know, like we don't have numbers in the houses because of earthquakes and everything. So you tell, okay, the place where you're going is three blocks down where the house of Maria used to be, and now is the house of Elba.

Three blocks from where the little dog died. Right. And I love to find Canadian humor. I love to discover links to my own native culture, let's say. This person is asking, some of the best comedy shows that run in the USA are not known specifically as Canadian. Should comedian actors and shows

be doing more to promote themselves as Canadian? Oh. Yes. I have my mind about that. I always think, let it see. stand on it. Oh, that's such a Canadian thing to say. I have just super disappointed myself. Just do it for the love of it, for God's sake. The idea in this business is promoting the star system, promoting the star system. But, you know, the work ends up speaking for itself. I really think so.

I watch this show called, God, dear, the one where he lives in the basement, his parents' house. he's sorry late bloomer thank you he travels with me to answer the things I have forgotten late bloomer late bloomer it is a great

great show there's a million great Canadian shows on right now that you probably haven't seen a million it's just that we don't have as big a beast that can produce it's not that why are people coming up with it

a million people are coming up with the best shows you've never seen. Because you can't get it done. You just can't get it produced. Exactly. There is no, for a stand-up comedy, for example, there is no Canadian Council for the Arts. There is no grants. We have been trying forever to make it an art.

And, I mean, to be declared an art, although, you know, sometimes I wonder. But, I mean, like we need, money. A lot of kids have great ideas. A lot of their, and they have the little cameras on their phones that they can film anything. That's great. Like a lot of people are in their racket now. Like if you see the TikTok and everything, all civilians doing very funny.

A lot of talent. Yeah. Funny is funny. Funny is funny. And good stories are good stories. When shows are incidentally Canadian, I love that. Like when you think of Corner Gas is incidentally Canadian, Schitt's Creek is incidentally. mentally Canadian. A fantastic show

which is not anymore. Children ruin everything. They would just mention things like, I'm going to Guelph, and as a Canadian, be like, I know Guelph. It would have nothing to do with the story. But, you'd be like, that's amazing. And of course, Little Mosk in the Prairie is a really fantastic example. And the one about the unhouse dog. What was? The littlest hobo?

The house dog. That's the reboot name. That is such a politically correct person. I learned English with a little. I learned English with the little Leesobo, because that was on cable in Monta. And the thing is, he didn't know he was on now. And the big scholar was in. Yeah. He didn't know.

He didn't know. He wasn't. Just a couple more questions, and then we'll wrap this up. But someone's asking this, is decency is a cornerstone of Canadian identity. Are our comedians more decent than Americans or Europeans? And if so, who is the most decent Canadian comic? I will say Mr. Ron James. Would you say that?

Decent. Like, what do you mean by Deacon? Well, they believe, they're saying decency is a cornerstone of Canadian identity. Are comedians more decent than Americans or Europeans? I assume it means a little bit more proper than others. And you're putting Ron up for... I misunderstood the question. A dear friend and I love him.

When somebody said, think Ron James in one word. Decent is not on the lens. No. What I mean is like he talks a lot, but he won't curse. He's very... I see. Maybe you meant decent almost in a button down. I think perhaps not punching down.

Not a bully. Not a become. Like he has this vocabulary and... Yes. He's a poet. A poet. Yeah, that's what I think. I thought you meant more button down.

Like straight laced. We have great comics. We have Derek Edwards. who is a storytelling from Timmons. He says he's the second most famous person from Timmons after Shania Twent. Like we have great comics. I love the comedian from Canada.

Yeah. I think this one to you probably, Deb, would you agree, American humor equals put down humor, British humor equals linguistic, puns, et cetera, world play. European humor, surreal. Canadian humor, the best of European and British. You kind of said something like that earlier, I think.

Yeah, I mean, to a degree, I wouldn't want to categorize all those countries as one thing because they're everything as well. I definitely think Canadian humor is a combination of all the humors. Yeah. We are a gatherer of humors.

We are a corno copia of humor. That's what Ron James would say. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And in that sense, he's... A gaggled. Of coming. As a final question, it's probably not a fair question,

but how many Canadian comedians do you think it would take to win the debate with Donald Trump? Oh. One. One. Their name? Ron James. Yeah.

No, question. He's not button down, but he would take the thing down, and he would take the thing down, and he would likely steal a line of yours and finish him by saying your daughter looks like an alligator. Your little daughter is it? I don't think you'd even want to waste your time.

I think it's better just to do what we can't to strengthen ourselves up instead. We just go find Canadian comedians and comics and people acting and people in comedy in general and make sure they're from Canada and appreciate them. That's it. Like me. Yes.

Here, here. So, Stuart, I'm Marta and Deb. Thank you very, very much for being here tonight and taking our questions. Really wonderful to talk to you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much for being here. Really appreciate it. Comedy as the Canadian Shield was recorded in Stratford, Ontario as part of the Provocation Ideas Festival in Stratford, Ontario. Special thanks to Mark Rosenfeld for making it all happen.

And to Michael Pishol for Onsenberg, for on-site recording. The web producer for Ideas is Lisa Ayusa, technical production, Emily Carvezio. The senior producer is Nicola Lachich. The executive producer of ideas and producer of this episode is Greg Kelly, and I'm Nala Ayyad.

For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.