Ideas - The Many Lives of Maria Chapdelaine

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Maria Chapdelaine — the fictional character from rural Quebec became a global phenomenon in the 1920s, and has inspired movies, plays — even an opera. Yet the book remains far less known in English Canada and the English-speaking world. IDEAS examines the many lives that Maria Chapdelaine has lived, and continues to live.

When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. There's a man living in this address in the name of a deceased. He's one of the most wanted men in the world. This isn't really happening. Officers are finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies from CBC's Uncovered, available now.

This is a CBC Podcast. Welcome to Ideas. I'm Nala Ayed. And so begins Maria Chapdelen, a tale of French Canada. I'm Sophie Rigoir-Trudeau. I remember the story of this young woman who was in love and who lost her love. And you know, I think because I heard it in those years where I guess I was an early teenager. The novel that captured Sophie's heart was penned in 1913 by Louis Aymond, a French journalist who ventured to the remote village of Paribonca. Maria Chapdelen quickly became an international sensation.

By the 1920s, over a million copies sold worldwide, an astonishing achievement for its time. It was the first French bestseller. So it's like Harry Potter now. This coming-of-age story of a teenage Quebec farm girl struck a chord globally, with readers journeying to Paribonka from as far away as Japan. It's a beautiful love story, and what I think makes it so universal is when she has to make the choice between these suitors because we are all at one time in our life in this situation who am I going to choose what am I going to choose Maria's heart beat faster as she rose and went toward François Paradis who was kneeling behind the alders. Side by side, they picked industrially for a time. François Paradis stole a glance at Maria,

then turned his eyes away and tightly clasped his hands. But she was so good to look upon. The book has been translated into more than 20 languages, inspiring four film adaptations, stage plays, an opera and even a popular song. Maria Chapdelen herself has been painted, sculpted and featured on a stamp. There's a Rue Maria Chapdelen in Montreal and Montnui-et-Mont in the Laurentians. The region surrounding Parabancas is officially designated as the

Maria Chapdelen Regional District. Many decades ago, I spent a summer studying French in Chacouto me, and that's where my fascination, some might even call it an obsession, with Maria Chapdelen began. Writer and filmmaker Catherine Ennil. One day, my class took a field trip a hundred miles north to the small town of Parabonka. We visited the tiny homestead where Louis Amon lived for a few months and where he wrote most of his novel. At that point, I hadn't even read Maria Chapdelen's novel. I was just a little girl, and I was a little girl.

I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl.

I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. I was a little girl. of Parabonca. We visited the tiny homestead where Louis Amon lived for a few months and where he wrote most of his novel. At that point I hadn't even read Maria Chaptelein, yet the memories of that day have stayed with me all these years.

Okay, I got it. So Latin into the full English of page one. Here we go. Ite Misa Est. The door opened and the men of the congregation began to come out of the church at Peribanka. A moment earlier it had seemed quite deserted. This church set by the roadside on the high bank of the river, whose icy snow-covered surface was like a winding strip of plain. I'm Sophie-Gregoire Trudeau, and I'm an author, a speaker, a mental health advocate, and a mother of three. Sophie-Gregoire Trudeau's life may seem far removed from that of Maria Chapdelen. And yet, like so many Quebec women of her generation, and those born before and after

her, there's something about this story that resonates deeply. You know, I think it's part of our Quebec culture, heritage, kind of always the story that one goes back to. There's others, but that's really one of them. And I remember the story of this young woman who was in love and who lost her love. And you know, I think because I heard it in those years where I guess I was an early teenager, that's pretty much what I remembered. And when I listen to it these days, it's really, it brings me back into the past.

And it also brings us back, I think, into our ancestors' past and what they had to go through for us to be here today in some ways. When the novel opens, Maria is living with her father, a frontiersman, at her hardworking, uncomplaining mother, on a remote farm in the Quebec wilderness. It was a tough life, rooted in traditional Catholic values passed on from generation to generation. That was the world that Maria was expected to enter and the young men of Parabonka eagerly competed for her attention.

Interested glances were directed toward the top of the steps. One of the young people paid Maria the countryman's tribute of admiration. A fine, hearty girl, said he. Right you are, a fine, hearty girl, and one with plenty of spirit, too. The smiles were bold enough as they spoke of her, this inaccessible beauty. But as she came down the wooden steps with her father

and passed by, they were overcome with bashfulness and awkwardly drew back. The plot is quite simple. So, Marjah Chabdelain is a young woman who's living with her family in the country, in the remote area near Lac-Saint-Jean in the Saguenay region. My name is Isabelle Donnet. I, a woodsman, and well, they both get along and it's quite clear that they love each other and they will get married, but first they have to wait the end of the winter. Since the coming of François Paradis, the long weekly vigil was very sweet for her, for she could think of him and of herself with nothing to distract her imaginings. In the springtime, he will come back.

There was the joy of seeing him again, the words he will say when they find themselves once more alone, the first touch of hands and lips. She repeated his full name two or three times, formally, as others spoke it. François Paradis from Saint-Michel de Mistassini. François Paradis. Then suddenly, with sweet intimacy, François... And of course, there's some drama.

It's too nice to be true, too beautiful to be true. So unfortunately, he dies in the forest during a very harsh winter storm. And so she waits for him for days and days because he told her that he would be there for Christmas and when he doesn't make it, she understands that he died. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] Maria went back to the window. She stood there motionless, with arms hanging piteously by

her side, a stricken figure of grief. Then a sudden anguish, yet keener and more unbearable, seized upon her. How he must have suffered, far off there amid the snows. She sees François making his way through the closely set trees, limbs stiffened with the cold, his skin raw with that pitiless nor-wester, gnawed by hunger, stumbling with fatigue, his feet so weary that he no longer had the strength to lift them, his snowshoes often catching the snow and throwing him to his knees. After Francois Paradis dies, two suitors present themselves to Maria, Lorenzo Supranin and

Utrope Gagnon. The difference between them could not have been more stark. Utrope Gagnon lived on a neighboring farm. For Maria, he represented continuity. With him, she'd stay in Quebec and become a farmwife like her own mother. Lorenzo Supranin represented change. He wanted her to join him and the hundreds of thousands of Quebecers who headed south to the United States in the early 20th century,

beckoned by the promise of comfort and riches in a new country. This is no place for you, Maria. The country is too rough, the work too hard. If you will marry me as I ask, I will take you off to a country that will open your eyes with astonishment. A fine country, unlike this, where you can live in a decent way and be happy for the rest of our days. But before Maria could decide anything, tragedy strikes. Her mother dies suddenly, leaving the teenage Maria to take care of her father and her younger siblings, Isabelle Donne. to take care of her father and her younger siblings, Isabelle Donne. For her, it's the occasion to have a look at what her mother's life has been.

She understands more clearly at this very moment that what her mother has gone through, what she has done, and that her life is a dignified life, that what her mother has to go through living with this man who's always wanting to go further north, who doesn't want to stay in a village. But Maria is in the position of understanding very clearly that this life is a dignified life, it's not a simple life, and that it's an adventure in a way in itself. So the fact that her mother dies is a way for her to have a better understanding of

where she stands. One night shortly after her mother's death, Maria falls asleep and voices appear to her in a dream. While Maria was dreaming of the city's distant wonders, the first voice brought to her memory a hundred forgotten charms of the land she wished to flee. to flee. And yet those vast American cities must be beautiful. But then, as though an answer, a second voice was raised. Over there, was it not a strange land where people of an alien race spoke of unfamiliar things, in another tongue sang other songs. Then a third voice, mightier than the others, lifted itself up in the silence, the voice of Quebec. Now the song of a woman, now the exhortation of a priest. It came to her with the sound of a church bell,

with the majesty of an organ's tones, like a plaintive love song, like the long, high call of woodsmen in the forest. Thus spake the voice, Three hundred years ago we came, and we have remained. In this land of Quebec, Years ago, we came, and we have remained. In this land of Quebec, no one shall die, and no one shall suffer change.

No one shall suffer change. The voice of Quebec, the voice of 300 years of history, is too powerful for Maria to resist. With hands folded in her lap, patient of spirit and without bitterness, yet dreaming a little wistfully of the far-off wonders her eyes would never behold, and of the land wherein she was bidden to live with its store of sorrowful memories. Maria Chabdelen awakened from her dream to the thought, So I shall stay, shall stay here after all. For the voices had spoken commandingly, and she knew she could not choose but obey. commandingly, and she knew she could not choose but obey.

Okay, so this is the ending. What do we want here for the ending? I'm not going to sound indecisive, but I'm going to become the one who says yes without really knowing if I'm going to say yes. Okay, here we go. if I'm going to say yes. Okay, here we go. [♪ soft music begins to play, with a soft piano note and piano chords playing in the background. Eau-trop-gagnon was there one evening to pay them a visit, and a glance he stole of Maria's face perhaps told him of a change in her.

For when they were alone, he put the question to her, Maria, are you still thinking of going away? Her eyes were lowered. As with emotion of her head, she signified, No, then I know very well that this is no time to speak of such things, but if only you could say that there would be a chance for me one day, then I could bear the waiting better." And Maria answered him, Yes, if you wish, I will marry you as you asked me to, in the spring, the spring after

this spring now, when the men come back from the woods for the sowing. OK, in French. Maria replies, Yes, if you want, I will marry you, as you asked me. The spring after this spring, when men will return from the woods for sleep. You know what, I think almost every family has a Maria. I guess it depends on what you look for in Maria. And I think there could be a modern version of Maria.

I think many women find themselves sometimes, you know, wanting to settle with someone and life makes it impossible or difficult, and they are living in, you know, demanding situations and life circumstances. So, yes, I'm sure every family has one. -♪ Piano playing softly in bright rhythm. and life circumstances. So yes, I'm sure every family has one. ["Pomp and Circumstance"] So who was this little known French writer

who was able to so evocatively capture the inner life of a teenage girl in the Quebec wilderness? Louis-Aimond was born in 1880 into a prominent family in Brittany, Northwest France. He studied law and Oriental languages, then moved to London to work as a sportswriter for French newspapers. But his real ambition lay elsewhere. Amon admired the frontier writings of the American novelist James Fenimore Cooper, and he wanted to discover a frontier of his own to chronicle.

So in October 1911, he left his family behind and set sail for Quebec. While he was on the ship, a missionary priest told him about settlements being carved out of the wilderness in a place called Parabonca. So, after a brief stint at an insurance company in Montreal, that's where he headed in the summer of 1912. It took him three days to get to Péribon-Cas. He stopped in several villages, and when he reached Péribon-Cas,

he determined that it was the best place to find inspiration to write something. My name is Jimmy Doucette. I'm an author and theater director who lives in Quebec City, although I've worked a lot in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean area for 25 years. Jimmy Doucette has written more than 100 plays, many of them drawn from the local history

of small towns across the region. He's written two plays about the time Louis Amon spent in Parabonka. So he took the boat, he went to Robertval to buy some workloads, and on the ship coming back with his workloads, he met Samuel Bédard. And he realized that Bédard was a storyteller who spoke to everyone, that he was going to be able to draw a lot of inspiration from this guy. That was pretty clear. Louis Amon went to work as a farmhand for Samuel Bédard.

He stayed for about six months and attended evening social events that Bédard held in his barn, where people told stories about their lives on the Quebec frontier. Amon would write them all down in his notebook. It was also interesting to see that the population thought this was just another Frenchman passing and write them all down in his notebook. It was also interesting to see that the population thought this was just another Frenchman passing through. Although people noticed something peculiar about him. Some people called him Bidal's fool because he was constantly stopping what he was doing to take notes. And people wondered, why is this guy making notes of everything we do. And they said, why does the guy write everything we do? Of course, back then... He was really, really, really

conquered by the landscape. He was really overwhelmed by the beauty of the landscape. And especially by the fact that the Québécois, the French Canadians, still spoke French, given that they had been abandoned by the motherland, which for French Canadians was France, of course. Aurélien Boivin is a professor emeritus in Quebec literature at Laval University in Quebec City.

Originally from the Saguenay region, Professor Boivin is considered the leading authority on the life of Louis-Aimand. Upon arriving in Quebec City, he walked around. He was surprised to see store signs that were all in French. At some point, he even said, it was even more French than France. He pays tribute to this nation that remained entirely French. He's attracted by the musicality of French names, which he uses in Maria Chabdellaine.

which in Marie-Auguste Abdelaine will say. on lakes, on rivers, on settlements of the new country that they were discovering as they went. After spending a hard winter and spring working on Samuel Bidao's farm and writing his book, Louis-Aimond sent the manuscript to a French magazine for publication. He then packed his bags and set out to explore a new frontier, the Canadian West. He boarded a train for the prairies, but during a stop in northern Ontario, he was struck by a train and killed. It was July 1913. Émone was 33 years old. The following year, Maria Chapdelen was serialized in a Parisian magazine, but it would be another eight years before a well-established Parisian publisher named Bernard Grasset agreed to

an initial print run of 3,000 copies. The editor Bernard Grasset was keen on enhancing the numbers of sales. Cécile Baudoin wrote her doctoral thesis on Louis Amant at the University of Brittany in France. And he knew how to aim specifically the audiences he knew were going to be touched by the novel. Obviously, the Catholic world and also the world of the countryside. And it paid off, it paid off.

It paid off at least in part because Bernard Grasset was a gifted marketer. Bernard Grasset, knowing that religion was really a big part of the novel, he sold that idea to the church in France. And he convinced them to put the book into every school of France. Samuel Duprat is the head of cultural activities at the Louis A. Mohr Museum in Parabonca. He quote-unquote forced Maria Chapdelin into the school, so that most of the people have the opportunity to read Maria Chapdelin.

By 1925, Maria Chapdelin had become an international publishing sensation, selling more than a million copies and getting translated into more than a dozen languages. It topped bestseller lists not only in France but in the UK, the United States, and both French and English Canada. Readers from around the world made pilgrimages to Parabonca to see Samuel Bedard's house, which had been turned into a museum. It was run by a local woman named Eva Bouchard, who was said to be Louis Emond's inspiration for Maria Chapdelen. Samuel Duprat.

Eva Bouchard, she was the sister of Laura Bouchard, and Laura Bouchard was the wife of Samuel Bedard. So when Louis-Hémond went to Pyrrhiboncqa, he worked for Samuel Bedard, and we think that he may have met Eva Bouchard like a couple of times. And after that, of course, the gossip of the village and everything, they thought that Eva Bouchard

was the inspiration of the character Maria Chabdelen, but it was proved wrong a little bit after that. But still the legend of personification was created at that point and it was too late. So it still remains in the mind of some people today. The reasons why this simple tale of a Quebec farm girl struck such a chord for readers in France go well beyond clever marketing. The book's depiction of rural life and its celebration of traditional Catholic values captured a significant shift that was already underway in the national mood.

The shift was partly a reaction to the carnage and horror of World War I, which had ended just a decade earlier, and partly a response to a law passed in France in 1905 that formalized the principle of the separation of church and state. The traditional and Catholic side of the novel was very important because there was a resurgence, a comeback of traditional thinking in these years in France. Cécile Baudoir. For the readers, they've noticed the way of speaking, they've noticed the clothes, they've noticed the way to live, and of course it reminded them of France before the war, of France before the law of separation of

church and state, and even of France before the French Revolution. Some of them really go back to this ideal with, I'm doing quote marks with my fingers, but to this idea of France, which was very reactionary. It's the same word, actually. After the horrors of the First World War, there was just this general shock about the implications of modernity because it had been an industrial warfare, really, for the first time. Sarah Melroy is executive director and chief curator of the McMichael Canadian Art Collection in Kleinberg, Ontario.

And the whole idea of civilization, as people had known it, was deeply shaken. And so anything that smacked of a return to traditional values or of humanity as we previously understood it, was very, very welcome. It was kind of like laying a poultice on a wound. People were badly, badly traumatized by what everyone had been through in all the different regions, all the different theaters of that conflict. So this was like medicine to turn the pages of this book and look at this at this point in history.

One of the few places where Louis-Hémon's novel was not universally embraced was in Perrabanca. When the book was published, many in the town found his depiction of them to be inaccurate and condescending. It was not entirely well received at first. You see, what Louis-Hémon is depicting is not a very appealing picture of French Canadians. He's telling us about an illiterate people. The word is used in the text, meaning people who speak very poorly at times. Bonjour, je m'appelle Cynthia Harvey, professeure du Québec à Chicoutimi. I teach 19th century French and Quebec literature. Canadians were portrayed as people who were a bit primitive. Even the priest was primitive, so we didn't like this portrayal of ourselves at first.

But for another part of Quebec society, the powerful Catholic clergy, the novel was a big win right from the start. The voice of Quebec that Maria hears, the voice that tells her that she must remain on the land, that nothing should ever change, may not have been the voice of God. But it was surely the voice of the Church. And the stakes couldn't have been higher. La survivance, survival. Isabelle Donnet. The surviving here is the survival of who you are as a nation, actually.

And by choosing the neighbor who lives the exact same life that her parents have lived, you keep your culture, you make your culture survive. And so this is what the survival is all about. If she leaves for the United States, then she just cut herself from her roots. So the surviving here is very political. It's not about herself having to survive as a person. You're listening to Ideas.

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Hey Catherine, welcome to McMichael. It's so nice having you here to look at these wonderful things with us. We continue now with the documentary, The Many Lives of Maria Chapdelen by contributor Catherine Anno. Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I'm super excited to see the drawings. Now we're going to go in there and get bundled up because it's super chilly in there because of the climate control. You can hear the fans going already. I'm at the McMichael Canadian Art Collection with chief curator and executive director Sarah Milroy to get a special viewing of some paintings that further drew me into the story of Maria Chapdelen. Back in 2016, I was at the McMichael wandering through an exhibit of art and memorabilia

celebrating Louis Amon's novel when I came across a series of exquisite jewel-toned illustrations by one of Canada's greatest artists, Clarence Gagnon. Today, those 54-frame paintings are kept inside big metal drawers in a climate-controlled room. This is a five-star hotel for these works and it's lovely to have a chance with you to pull them out and look at them, you know, one by one as we will, because normally they have to hide in the dark for long periods of time. We show them and then we have to put them away for a number of years,

because if we have them out on display all the time they get bleached. Clarence Gagnon was born in 1881 in a small village north of Montreal. He moved to France in his 20s to pursue a career as an artist but returned to Canada frequently. At the height of Maria Chapdelin mania in France, Gagnon was approached by a French publisher and asked to provide illustrations for a new edition of the novel that was about to be published. The 10-inch by 8-inch paintings that appeared in that edition were acquired by the McMichael in 1969 and they've been there ever since. Let's pull another one just for fun and see what we get.

Ah. So this is one of the works that's in the frontispiece to the book, and what we're looking at here is this Lac-Saint-Jean in the distance in the rolling hills, blue sky with clouds, and then people using... Some of Clarence Gagnon's paintings illustrate scenes from the novel, like the death of Maria Chapdelin's mother. Others reflect the harshness and the richness of life in the Quebec wilderness. I think that what you experience when you look at the Maria Chapdalin images is a way

of life that is intact, in which many of the pleasures of being a human being are clearly being experienced in community and within family. And I think the feeling of comfort you get from looking at these images, there's a lot of cold in the images because we're in the Quebec landscape, but there's an incredible warmth in being with your fellow human beings. And that is a kind of counterbalance to the cold.

And so it's a very Canadian story in that way, even though it was written by a Frenchman, because it kind of gets that duality of the harshness of the environment outside, but also the pleasures of being together. But just as with Emond's novel, there were questions of accuracy. There's no record that Gagnon ever went to Parabonka before he painted his Maria Shepdaline images. Like Louis Émant, Gagnon's vision of the Saguenay Lac-Saint-Jean region was that of an outsider and an idealist. But rural Quebec was changing, and as Sarah Milroy points out, the images that Gagnon created

no longer truly reflected Quebec's reality. You could look at this work made in 1931 to 33 and think that this was really what was Quebec society at that time. But in fact, you know, there was rapid industrialization. The factories were growing up, quiet village life and life on the land is something that's giving way to people leaving the villages and moving into Montreal,

Massachusetts, Vermont, New York and so on in search of jobs. So they're actually depictions of a way of life that is disappearing, is vanishing at this very moment at which is being immortalized in these works. Given the enormous success of Maria Chapdelen the novel, it was inevitable that the story would find its way to the big screen. And it has, four times. The first movie was released in 1934. It was produced in France, starred A-list French actors, and was directed by Julien Duvivier, one of the country's leading directors. Many of the outdoor scenes were filmed on location around Parabonca, and locals were given minor roles in the film. Maria. Will you be here again next spring, Maria? Yes.

It's going to be all summer, autumn, winter, and then I'll come back. I'll be waiting, François. The movie was a big hit with critics and moviegoers alike in both France and Quebec, and helped boost the Maria Chapdelin tourism industry in Paribonka. The next film version of the book was released in 1950. It was a French-British co-production called The Naked Heart. It took several significant liberties with the plot. In this version, Maria is back in Parabonka after spending five years at a boarding school.

And her US-bound suitor, Lorenzo Supranin, is on the lam and gunned down by police. It would be another 33 years before Maria appeared on the screen again. This time, a homegrown adaptation. This 1983 movie brought together two of the biggest names in Quebec cinema, director Gilles Carle and actress Carol Lor, who played Maria. The film was nominated for 11 Canadian Screen Awards, winning four, and it brought the Maria Chapdelin story to a whole new generation of Quebecers, including a young would-be filmmaker from the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region named Sébastien Pilote. It's a novel that has always struck me, because I have the impression that I recognize its

characters as if they were a part of my family. I feel like I recognize my uncles, my parents and grandparents. I come from a large family. On my mother's side, there were 11 children, so when I was young in the 1970s and early 80s during the veille, the house parties at my Gagnon grandparents' house were always filled with music on the accordion, with dances and jigs. So there was always something in the book that reminded me of my family. Sebastian Pilot is one of Canada's most widely acclaimed directors.

His two best known films, The Salesman from 2011 and The Dismantling from 2013, both won multiple international awards. Just before shooting began on The Dismantling, he was living in a cottage on Lac-Saint-Jean near Parabanga. In the cottage, there was a small bookcase containing only one book. Actually, two. The phone book and Maria Chabdelen. Since I had time to kill, I decided to re-read the novel, which was a quick and easy read

for me. On the shore of Lac-Saint-Jean, I re-read that novel and I had a revelation that this was going to be my next film. And it was a bit of a revelation. I said to myself, oh, it's going to be my next film. So Sébastien Pilot began plotting what would become the fourth film adaptation of Maria Chapteleine and the first to reimagine the novel through a 21st century lens. For me, it was obvious. I had the impression that the novel belonged to me. For me, it went without saying.

I felt that the novel belonged to me. I wanted to do it. But in my own way, because I believe that often when we tell Maria Chabdelen's story, it's interpreted in a certain way, and I felt there was another way to tell her story, to bring out different things and tell her story differently. They tell her story differently. To bring out things, to interpret the story differently. Who is François Parati?

You can't remember. He ran away from me. It must be Troph Gagnon who came to see us. It's not a great prophecy, it's true that he died. Sebastian Pilot's remaking of Maria's Chapdelin differed from earlier film versions in several significant ways, including its portrayal of Maria. Other directors had hired major stars in their 30s to play the title role. But in Louis Emond's novel, Maria is a shy teenager who rarely speaks. So, Pilat launched a province-wide search for a teenage actress and ultimately gave the

role to an unknown 18-year-old named Sarah Monpety who was still in school when she was cast. And then, Sebastian Pilot gave her almost no lines of dialogue. Maria Chapdelen, to me, is a girl, a young woman, an adolescent who's among adults, boys who are a bit older than her. Maria is an imprude and easily offended virgin, she's simply a young adolescent who's respectful of the etiquette of country people. She's somewhat timid.

She expresses herself through nature. If we want to know how she feels during the film, we simply need to watch what's happening around her. I didn't want to fall into the trap of giving her a modern, contemporary character because I feel that today, to assert oneself, one has to speak a lot and give one's opinion. But I feel that it would have betrayed the spirit of the time

and the spirit of certain characters because there are people who don't need to speak to be intelligent. Reinterpreting Maria Chapdelin for the 21st century meant revisiting the novel's critical core, the agonizing choice that Maria had to make after the death of Francois Péridie. Should she seek a new world by moving to the United States with Lorenzo Supranon? Or should she choose predictability by marrying Utrope Gagnon and remaining in Quebec? Maria had known this cold all of her life, this snow, these austere and frowning woods.

Now she was coming to view them with fear and hate. A paradise it surely must be, this country to the south where March is no longer winter, and in April the leaves are green. At midwinter one takes to the road without snowshoes, unclad in furs. And the cities? The pavements! In his movie, Sebastien Pilote radically reinterprets the character of Lorenzo Supranon. Supranon's story has a personal resonance for Pilote.

His own great-great-grandfather came from the Saguenay region. He left to go to the U.S. to work in a cotton mill, but he didn't stay long. What you need to understand is that my great-great-grandfather came back to Quebec at age 26 to find a land, a farm, and build a house. He went to get his wife, children, and his mother one year later to bring them back to Quebec. And in the eastern United States, French Canadians were exploited by the big industries and lived miserably. In the novel, I've always thought it was

strange that Lorenzo Surprenant was portrayed almost like Marcel Proust, some distinguished city slicker, but he was a simple proletarian who worked miserably and dreamed of material goods. My great-great-grandfather couldn't tolerate that anymore, so he came back home and never wanted his children to learn English because he feared that his children would go back to the U.S. one day. One of the reasons that Lorenzo Surprenant character of the reasons that the Lorenzo Surprenant character speaks to me is that Lorenzo Surprenant is a farmer who undergoes a change of social class, becoming a worker who loses his culture and language.

He's a farmer who becomes a proletarian, and he's cultured because he goes to the U.S. and loses his language and everything. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. [♪ Piano music playing in the background. Over the last century, Maria's choice to marry you trope and stay in Quebec has been interpreted

by readers in many different ways. Isabelle Donne. This is the very contentious part of the novel actually, because her choice was celebrated at the time by conservative people, by the clergy, as being the right choice for Kibikur. You stay where you are, you keep building land, you keep your family values. And so for a long time it was a good point for the novel. And in more recent times, it was a good point for the novel and in more recent times it's a bad point for novels.

She would have chosen a much better, more interesting life. The Catholic Church's message that nothing should ever change was losing its resonance in a society that was undergoing a radical transformation. Not only was it becoming more urban and industrialized, but Québec was also becoming far more secular, culminating in the Quietille, the 1960s, 1970s, the novel becomes a burden. And for many readers of this era, Maria Chabdelen is read through this scene, but as a problematic scene. So right now, we would easily find people who say, oh, who can believe such a thing?

This was just written for people to stay as they were, to not complain, to not revolt, to be obedient, et cetera. But in recent years, the tide has shifted once again. Modern Quebec writers and filmmakers like Sebastien Pilote are looking at the book and Maria's choice through fresh eyes. Perhaps because of the Quiet Revolution, we started to interpret Lorenzo as embodying progress and Eutrop's character as conservative. I think that's a bit of a mistake.

When we read the novel, and it's quite obvious in the film, when Lorenzo Surprenant proposes to Maria, all he offers her are things that he doesn't own yet, things he's dreaming about, the American dream of owning a house. He also tells her that she'll no longer need to work and that she'll rely entirely on him. He also suggests that she become a consumer, with a washing machine, a beautiful house, and that they go to the movies. He talks to her about stores and things like that. In a factory over there, clever and strong as you are,

soon you would be making nearly as much as I do. But no need of that if you were my wife. I earn enough for both of us, and we should have every comfort, good clothes to wear, a pretty flat and a brick house with gas and hot water, and all sorts of contrivances you've never heard of to save your labor and worry every moment of the day. On the other hand, when Eutrope Gagnon proposes, all he says is that they never borrow. He offers a partnership. He says that he knows that she's hardworking, that she can work as well as him, so they

can build a house together. All of that will belong to us. I know very well enough that we shall have to work hard at first. But you have courage, Maria, and are well used to labour as I am. I have always worked hard. No one can say that I was ever lazy. And if only you will marry me, it will be my joy to toil like an ox all the day long to make a thriving place of it, so that we shall be in comfort before old age comes upon us.

I think that we need to remove from our mind the idea that Lorenzo embodies progress and freedom and that Eutrop embodies a kind of servitude to the home. I feel it's much more complex than that. I don't think I have advice to give to Maria, but I would say to follow the integrity of her heart, not only to feel it, but to follow it. Like Sebastian Pilot and many other contemporary readers of this 112-year-old novel. Sophie Gregoire Trudeau identifies with Maria's dilemma, but through the lens of a modern woman. It's difficult to compare what happened in these days with today because I don't think that we have the same constraints in some ways. There is more freedom as

to who we choose to love, why we choose to love them, and not be judged by others, although we face a lot of discrimination with marginalized people or communities. But yeah, no, I think it was that. It was she had integrity in her heart. She knew whom she loved. One, two, three. Yeah!

The Musée Louis-Aamon is now open and receiving visitors in Paribonka. Over at the McMichael Gallery, the Clarence Gagnon paintings were recently on display The Musée Louis-Aimond is now open and receiving visitors in Parabonka. Over at the McMichael Gallery, the Clarence Gagnon paintings were recently on display and attracted big crowds, as they do every time they're shown. Sebastian Pilot's 2021 adaptation has attracted large audiences both at home and abroad. The cultural phenomenon that is Maria Chapdelin shows no signs of diminishing. As for me, I'm delighted that the personal connection I've always felt towards Maria

seems to be shared by so many, including interviews, I asked my guest this one final question. Imagine that the studio door opens now and stepping into the studio with you is Maria Chaptalan. You're face to face with her right now. What would you say to her? Oh, this is a very difficult question. I think I would say thank you. her right now, what would you say to her? Oh, this is a very difficult question. I think I would say thank you.

Thank you for being such a great character. And I'm not sure I would say much to her because I don't think she would be much of a talker, first of all. She's a quiet person. She's a quiet character. And this is a quality I like about her. It's all about what's inside of her.

So maybe I would just salute her. I think I'll probably remain in silence, like what she likes to do, actually. Yeah, just to be in silence beside her would be absolutely amazing. What would I tell Maria? Hmm... Strangely, I see her as my great-grandmother. What would I tell Maria? Strangely, I see her as my great-grandmother,

but if she was in front of me, I'd speak deras to my daughter. And I would tell her, live your own life, don't take me as a role model, be more adventurous. I would tell her not to choose continuity, but if it's her choice, she could do it, just not for my sake.

I would want to tell her that she should go off to see the world a bit more, because she'll always be able to come back home. So I would tell her, Maria, you can go discover things, but you'll be able to come home because it feels good being here. That's a tough one. You were brave in every way you could be, sister. Maria Chapdelen, she is getting married today. In the heart... You are listening to The Many Lives of Maria Chapdelen

by contributor Catherine Anneau. Readings from Maria Chapdelen, A Tale of French Canada by Sophie-Gregoire Trudeau. Special thanks to Stephanie Moffett and Jodie Collero, Beatrice Dwehi, Aidan Cade Goldsmith, Anthony Yordanoff, Spencer Sunshine, The Wilders and Orange Lounge. Special thanks as well to Ira Basin, Isabelle Lupien, Marie-Eve Bouchard, Dominique Dénis, André Gobay, Sandra Bonon and the helpful folks at the Musée Louis-Aimont

and the McMichael Canadian Art Collection. And to our Radio-Canada Saguenay colleagues, Yvonne Guignard and Chantal Debian, voiceovers by Nicola Haddad, Philippe du Montigny, Sarah Lecomte, Grejina Krupa, and Gregory Wilson. Lisa Ayuso is the web producer of Ideas. Our technical producer is Danielle Duval. Nicola Lukcic is the senior producer.

The executive producer of Ideas is Greg Kelly. And I'm Nala Ayed. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.