If I Speak - 107: Do we love success but hate ambition?

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Moya has a big theory about success: we love the idea of it, but hate people going on about it. Did Timothée Chalamet’s naked ambition cost him an Oscar? Plus: what to do about a envious colleague. Got a dilemma? Email [e-mail] Join us at Crossed Wires festival in Sheffield on 4th July! https://crossedwires.live/ Music […]

We need, we need, can we get an official sound of that to put at the start of the shows? I think the official sound should just be you making that noise. You know, you make it better because you're born and bred Londoner. And I see, I hear that as like the sound of born and bread London. It's like, it's like Notting Hill Carnival. It's like, you know, football fans on the streets. It's like that to me is the sound of London. It's so Londoner.

It's so London person. I mean, it's actually all of our first words is, it's just that kind of like a capsite's the vibe of the born and bread London as I've met in my life. Obnoxious. No, it's not that. It's like a, there's a rambunctiousness and a surety. Yeah, but I sort of see obnoxious in that vein.

A friend of mine had a little group of friends that were known as UK Obby, UK obnoxious I just always think about UK obby That is very funny UK obby UK massive I ain't got ops

I got obbies Okay welcome to If I speak This is your weekly dose of Tough love Apparently we're for the hot heads

And the neurotics As Asha said before That could change Depending on the season There's some tough love There's also some gentle parenting Yeah sometimes Some days

but we are here with you today to talk again, just as we do every fucking week. Shall we get into the questions, or should we introduce our Sussgen? Let's get into questions. Let's assume the audience knows us this week. Right, me. So, 73 questions minus 70 in the spirit of Vogue.

But without the time or the budget. So, question one, what are your colours? Oh. I know you had them done. Well, I think I talked about this before. I'm technically a warm autumn. when we say done, I mean, chat GPT gave me them. However, every time I follow it, the thing about doing a podcast is, I think I've said this previously, but when you clip it, you do get to see the

effect of different colours on you. And even when you might not be able to sit in like real life or on cameras you're doing it, when you see the clips, it is very obvious what suits you and what doesn't. The burgundy shade I'm wearing today, I thought it washed me out, but I was advised it by the colours. And then I saw me wearing a turtleneck in the shade and I look great. It really brings out my hair. It brings out my lips. So I trust in the colours. So my colours are like deep. Anything with deep undertones I can wear. I can sort of fore-end to black. But I tend to try and avoid that as much because it can be a bit stark, but lots of warm, earthy colours. Question two. What is your favourite piece of?

of art. Ooh, I think I've talked about this before as well, you know. I don't think so. I went back and I looked through all my questions. Oh, you keep them. You're so smart. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Have I talked about this tabletop before? Right. No. Let me set the scene. 2023. Maybe 24. 2024. Your Faisy Gallery, Florence.

First time I've ever been, I took my mother. It might have been 23, you know. It might have been 23, you know. I took my mother, it was my second time in Florence, I loved Florence so much, then I took my mum there, and I'm going back this year again to finally see the irises. Florence is probably my favourite Italian city, but I haven't done enough to truly say that. But it's out of the ones I've been to my favourite. Anyway, in the Ophazia Gallery, there is a tabletop called the Port of Laverne, which is obviously a town near Florence, and it is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen my life. It is Lapus Lazuli, overlaid with like, gold and Mother of Pearl and it shows a scene of this port and the sea and everything's rendered in like the lapis and the mother of Pearl and like the little lights in the lighthouse are these tiny gold bits and it's so delicate and so beautiful I just stood and stared at that tabletop and I thought if I was a billionaire that would be what is in my house I would I would buy that

at any cost from the Uphazi Gallery and I think about ever since there's just the epitome of the kind of artwork I like. I love, I like paintings, I love photography, I love a solid thing. I love a craft, I love something with craft, I love something that's a bit 3D, and I was truly flawed by the beauty and craftsmanship and the meticulous nature of this.

And I just think it's so gorgeous. It's such a testament to work. Like I love the guilt ceiling of the baptistery. For example, all the doors, you know, on the baptisterian of St. John or St. Giovanni, I believe it is. One of the saints. Yeah, it's definitely St. John, but I think the Italian name is like St. Giovanni.

Anyway, so the doors are when you hammer through gold from the other side, so it becomes 3D on the baptistery. And I think that's so stunning. So I think the tabletop is my favourite piece. What about yours? Ooh. Okay. I really love Hans Holbein's the ambassadors. Love it.

And also there's the like weird skull. So like, you're like, oh, look some ambassadors. And, you know, there's a globe and, you know, da, da, blah, blah. Oh, fuck, we're all going to die. It's an English literature student dream that painting. Yeah. Because it's so like, here are some things to interpret. Yeah.

That's the thing is that like all of the ones, all of the ones that I like are like very narrative. Yeah. Also, like Caravaggio's execution of St. John the Baptist, where it frames the execution of St. John the Baptist as a prison murder. and I think you can tell that Caravaggio was living a dark life at that point. Have you seen the, who's it by the, is it Marat?

Or is it the death of Marat? Oh, the death of Marat. The death of Marat. And it's just so bloody. And it looks exactly like, you can see it. You're like, oh, that's how it happened. Peace of art, I hate though. Yeah.

Picasso, anything. Lots of Picasso. Fucking hate Picasso. Especially Picasso's non-celebrated works, which just, as I've said before, a woman by Picasso can be as abstract as anything there is still tits and a pussy

because he always found the he always found the ability to render some tits on that woman I think that Picasso has become so ubiquitous that you just can't appreciate like what was like daring or interesting about it and to talk about the ubiquity of Picasso there's a coffta restaurant

near where I live which does by the way some of the best coffta I've ever had in my life and it's just got a big print of Gurniker up because it's like you know what you want to think about when you're eating your cough-der, the horrors of war? Yeah, just like this horrible bombing. I hate Picasso, not because it's ubiquitous or like I hate it because this man was like the modern,

the father of like this, I guess it was modernism, what would you even call it cubism, whatever, this new mind-altering style of what art can be and he embodied misogyny and the degradation of other human beings. Like he had, he hated women. He didn't like women. He fucking hated women.

And I just think it's so telling that this is the man that we held up to be this innovator. Who also, by the way, like, I don't say nixed because I think a lot of art is taking inspiration for elsewhere, but he was just doing

what a lot of African artists were doing, especially statue-wise, worse. Especially, I went to the Nigerian Modernism exhibition recently, and it's just like, oh, Picasso's just like ripping, but worse. Fuck that, dude. I hate, I hate Picasso. I think he's so boring.

Final question. Yep. Final question. If you could grow one body part, what would it be? And just to say that the other body parts would not change in their shape or size. So you would just have to be able to grow this one body part. Wait, so I just have to make one body part bigger. Yeah?

Just one. My hair. Is that a body part? Hair. Is that body part? You can have hair. I don't want bigger tits. I had bigger tits.

I had size E's. You know, I used to have ginormous knockers. And then I experimented with having an eating disorder and called it veganism. And my boobs never went back to the same. Oh my God, same.

I literally, I did disordered eating and I lost my tits. And do you know what? I'm not going to lie, life with big tits is difficult. Yeah, it was really hard. People see you as a moo cow. they just see tit it's it's difficult and I shout out to the women who have big tits and survive it

I don't think I grow my ass it would look just proportionate at one point I had like a f to a g cup is insane and people just see you as tit it's really degrading anyway so hair hair I want my I want my lovely long hair back what did I do why did I do that what did I do you have emotional crisis and you cut off all your hair we talked about this last week true right mine would be Legs. Oh, you get taller. Oh, maybe I would get taller. I would be taller because I am at just the wrong height for so many tasks.

So if I was shorter, I'd be like, right, I'm carrying a step stool with me wherever I go. But on the shelves, my fingertips can just about brush the object. So I go, that's fine. I can beckon it closer and then I bring it crashing down onto the bridge of my nose. It's happened so many times. Do you know what, actually, Ash, I think I would want to be a bit tall. but because I have, every now that I get reminded

how ridiculously small I am and how other people see me and it's when you get reminded of how other people see you. So like, how remember if I told the podcast this? I think I told you this. My boyfriend the other day showed me what I look like to him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fucking, I was like, are you a paedophile? Because it was just like these eyes staring up plaintively from my waist. Yep. How can you respect that?

I know. I know. So you're right. I'm actually going to grow my height. I wish it was a little bit taller. I wish there was a baller. Wish I had a girl. I had a girl with a cold.

Yeah, I think five, five, six. I'd be happy with that. Perfect. Right. Right. Right. Right. I have talking about the ambition of being taller.

I have a big theory. Dund do, da, da, da, da. Bar-pah-pah. So this is something I have been thinking about. And that is, and do you know what I realised when I was writing this down, this is something that does actually plague me quite a lot. And I wonder if it might plague you too, as someone with a bit of a public profile. And that is we, and by we, I mean the Western society I live in specifically Britain, but also a lot of America.

I'm talking about those two countries. I can't speak as much to the Europeans. don't know as much what's going on there, but I know American Britain have this bad, which is Britain even worse, actually, we fetishize success, but we do not like the personal celebration of ambition. And I used to think America love to get braggy, but I actually don't think that anymore. And the reason I don't think that is because of Timothy Shalame. And this contradiction has occurred to me because I've been able to be able to be. watching Timothy Shalameh's unsuccessful Oscar campaign.

And that Oscar campaign started last year when he won the Actors Award. And he said, I want to be one of the greats. I want to be one of the greats. And even back then, there was a load of think pieces out about this guy's amazing slash, this guy is a braggadocia nightmare. And how dare he admit to his naked ambition? And some people are like, this is fantastic him talking about his naked ambition. However, recently, I think that naked ambition might have cost them an Oscar.

there's other reasons probably involved he's quite young, he's 30, he just turned 30, he would have been the second youngest Oscar winner ever but I think it might have cost me the Oscar because when you look at the fallout from Timothy Shalameh's comments about the ballet and opera which were these quite arrogant,

if not incorrect comments to make, they were pretty innocuous to be honest but the entire industry started ragging on him for it. They happened after Oscar voting. No, no, no. They came out a week before Oscar voting closed,

but they only blew up like two days after it if it closed. So I don't think it made that much difference specifically to the Oscar voting, but I do think it made a big amount of difference to how many people were willing to come out and express their long-held annoyance for Timothy Shalameh's arrogance.

You had everyone from Stephen Spielberg like chiming in about the loving ballet an opera and I'm sure they do, but I'm also sure they took a real good opportunity to have a punt at Timothy Shalame and knock him down a few pegs. Half the Oscar ceremony was based around ragging on Timothy

Salome. They'd Misty Copeland up there out of retirement. Just to be like fuck you, Timothy Shalamee. And that is clearly people seizing on a moment that they have been waiting for to say this kid is fucking annoying because he won't stop bragging about himself. And the

other reason I'm thinking about this is I've just sold a book, which is great. Woohoo, love that. But, fantastic. However, I'm already dreading this idea of having to promote it while not bigging myself up too much so that people hate me. My agent keeps being like, stop calling it a three-star rom-com, and I'm like, people are going to fucking hate me if I say this is good. What if it isn't good?

People are waiting to see me fail. I'm like, the evil eye will be upon me. You cannot brag too much. It is so unbecoming. And even talking about an achievement is bragging. but then at the other hand we fetishise this massive amount of like aspiration, hustling,

you know, achieving things but we don't like people showing the work or saying this work is good in the process. You have to get there by being really humble. Look at MBJ. He started his Oscar speech by thanking everyone he came before him. That is the done thing now. You have to

pay homage to the people who've come before. Like he was like Sydney Poitier. You have to pay your dues. Taylor Swift got, I wouldn't say cancelled, but she has received a lot of backlash recently for lots of different things. One of those things was she very rudely got on stage at the Grammys when she won album of the year.

Shouldn't have won it, but the Grammys is shit. And did not thank Celine Dion, who was handing her the award. And the context of that is obviously Celine Dion. Icon had one of her first appearances after this horrible illness she's got. But she didn't thank her. And everyone was like, how dare she not pay homage to this woman?

you know, and I kind of agree, but I also think that as an expression of you have to pay fealty to all these other people before you can even admit that you might be proud of what you've achieved yourself. So, I'm thinking about how much society fetishized success. Flashy, catalyst success that results in money and a big profile specifically. But we don't like people to express ambition. Ambition is a gauche, vulgar thing. It is desperate. You can't big yourself up. You have to wait for someone to do it for you. But then if you don't big yourself up, who will.

So I want to think about where this comes from. What is the Marxist take on this contradiction, this clash? Where do you want to start? Because I got thoughts about Timmy as well. I would like to begin with an Italian word, a very important Italian word. Spretzatura. Effortlessness.

So when we're thinking about why it is gauche to be seen as tooting your own horn being too ambitious or working too hard for greatness and success that actually has its origins in courtly values so sprezatura was supposed to be a quality of princes and aristocrats and nobility

they do not try too hard they are like swans on the water gliding through life because to work and to toil is for the lower orders, the lower classes. And so there were poets who would work really, really hard at their poems, right, courtly poets. So I'm thinking like Philip Sidney, Thomas Wyatt. And, you know, some of them would be like, oh, this old thing, this thing that I put together.

But I think Philip Sidney was seen as trying too hard. And his contemporaries hated him for it because he did not have spritzatura. So I think that this is like an established idea that goes back to courtly ideals and then get sort of pulled through the like productivism and industrialism of capitalism of capitalism. And so you end up with with this sort of like weird thing, which is be a high achiever, but don't look like you wanted it too much. Or if you did want it, you wanted it for reasons which aren't to do with yourself. So it's kind of like the layering of history and cultural norms, right? Like, you know, even though capitalism was a revolution, right, with political dimensions, economic dimensions, technological dimensions, et cetera, et cetera.

It doesn't completely eliminate what came before, particularly with culture, right? Particularly with culture. So I think that's Brexatura is the sort of the goche-ness part that you. you're talking about, right? Isn't an affront to spread satura. Timothy Shalameh has no spretzatura. Like, he doesn't have it. And you take someone like Olivia Coleman, right, another Oscar winner, who, you know,

when she wins an Oscar or a BAFTA or a girl club, she's like, oh, yeah, I just kind of got hit by accident. Like, oh, gosh, like, you know, I think that that is also something of like old Europe, right, old England. Like, oh, God, oh, God, did I? Like, oh, crumbs. and I think that that is something which is like still very much a feature of like

upper middle classness here in England and you see it play out all the time with like the way posh people talk about their children like oh he's a bit of a dumbo really like oh he's a bit thick and like they don't really want their kids to do well academically because that's for the grasping Arabis middle classes right you shouldn't need academic success but they still want the trappings of it they want to send

So like Oxford or Cambridge. Oh yeah, but they want a dumb kid who goes to Oxford. And to be fair, Boris Johnson could do it. So it's fine. You know, like they, and that's why in some ways, you know, the shift towards like, you know, more merit-based applications is like a crisis for the upper classes. So yeah, I think that's where I'd start is this idea of effortlessness having these like really, really deep sense. centuries old class connotations.

And I sort of wonder, do you ever feel the need to perform spretzatura? I don't know, because I also think I'm just very lucky in life and have somehow stumbled across the floor. Oh, crumbs, have I just been a really successful journalist by accident? Oh, gosh. But it's when you're doing, yeah, but this is a thing. I don't want to go too into myself,

because that will defeat the point of the entire podcast. No, I think yourself is in here. I think that the piece about how you're feeling, about a book coming out is really important here. It is important, but I do also want to analyze this contradiction between the idea that you can't talk about how much you want something. I talk about, I've talked about my work on the podcast and how busy I am. I think me talking about how busy I am is me demonstrating work.

And I have had reviews where people are like, that's really boring, Ormoy talks about is bragging about how busy she is all the time. You know, so when I do talk about the work, that goes into a career, I have felt pushback. I have felt people say, this is boring, we don't like it. What people want to do is believe that, I think people like hierarchy as well. You get people being like, how did you achieve this? How did you get this?

What's the secret? Privately. But if I publicly laid out what I did step by set took it, that would be seen as so self-indulgent. For example, I wrote a substack this week about my birthday in the book deal. And that started as a completely different post. where I was talking about how I was really proud that this week, while the last, it might be two weeks ago now, when this comes out,

but like two weeks ago, I'd done some reporting in Glasgow, on a big fire that happened. And I'd been, you know, I worked with the team. We all worked as one. It was really, it was really great. It was really fluid. It was like proper investigative reporting. We were door knocking, calling people, digging into company's house.

And I was not trained as a reporter. I have always been a comment journalist or an opinion writer or features. You know, I haven't done that grunt work. I've had to learn it on the job. And it's always been a bit of an insecurity of mine. I don't want to be Patrick Raddon Keith, but I do think it is important to have those nuts and bolts of basic reporting. And I can talk to people, but I lack the confidence. And now, because I've been in this job, because I've both edited and guided investigations, I can go out and do it myself. I have learned how to do it. And I'm really proud that I can help out and actually be useful. But writing that down made me look like the most

arrogant, you know, indulgent, like, who the fuck does she think she is? Remember when I said on here that I'm considered beautiful. I'm considered conventionally attractive. I wasn't saying I'm more beautiful than anyone else. I wasn't saying, like, this is just the feedback I get from people around me and like random strangers in the street. And this is actually not a good thing. It's not been a healthy thing for me. I just was like being honest. And so many people were like, ready to be like, she's a fucking munter. She's mid. She's mid. She's. She's like, who she thinks she is, I don't see anyone beautiful. As soon as you express that you might have a trait

or you might have achieved something that is seen as socially desirable, whether that is professionally, whether that is through no sort of work on your own, even though I'd say I put work into my appearance, obviously, I could do certain things that would make me very conventionally unattractive. But I don't, do I? I put makeup on, I have my hair, I present in a very feminine manner. There's all ways I'm playing into that. but people, people hate to see the fucking work, even though they're begging for the recipe.

And that's what I find fascinating. It's like these influencers, these TikTokers, these people, like, we talked about the Manistphere last week, people are begging for the recipe of their success. They want the get rich quick. They want to know how to make this money. But they, if you express ambition, then you automatically lose something. Like your fame is short lived, your profile is short lived. I think of it almost like, you know, eunuchs, scheming eunuchs in the court,

who would express this ambition or show this naked ambition to rise at the ranks, and they would fall. Henry VIII's advisors always eventually came to a brutal end, Amber Lynn, anyone who expresses that ambition in some way, where they might not say it, but you can see it in their social climbing and their Machiavellian maneuvering. They come to a sticky end. That happens in fictional narratives.

It happens in the real world, too. because that expression of ambition, as you say, is at odds with effortlessness. And if you're not effortless, your ghost and you're vulgar and eventually you'll be knocked down to where you belong. I actually think that it's maybe even older than that. Because then I was thinking about, well, what's the, you know, the counterpoint to Spretzatura is not ambition so much as effort, effort, toil, work for status. But ambition and the sort of like sin of ambition or the invitation to punishment that is ambition,

obviously there's biblical precedence for it, right? To behave as God or to have the ambition to match God or to supplant God is the origin of Satan. it's the Tower of Babel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the word ambition, it made me think of Mark Antony's funeral speech in Shakespeare's Julia Caesar. Of course it did. Of course it did. No, when the poor hath cried Caesar, hath wept.

But Brutus says he is ambitious, and Brutus is an honourable man. And the thing is, and this is, like, Julia Caesar is probably my favourite Shakespeare play, maybe a tie with Othello, but those are the top two, top two. is that it is a play which is about people who can really see how performative Caesar is in his professing to be acting in the service of Rome.

And right at the beginning, you hear the crowd roar three times because three times Mark Anthony presents him with a kingly crown and three times Caesar refuses it. So as no, no, no, no. and, you know, like Brutus and Cassius, they're all shing themselves. They're like, oh no, this makes it even worse. This makes it even worse because he's trying to make it so that the demand for him to assume kingly status is an organic one from the mob and not from himself, which is why he's like stating

this thing. So, yeah, the punishment of ambition and the pretense of equality even where there is greatness. I mean, you could sort of say that that's the entire Roman imperial idea. Even Augustus, the first emperor of Rome, maintains the pretense that it's still a republic. And still, SPQR for the Senate and the people of Rome is on everything, right? It's SPQR. So I sort of think that this contradiction between we are all the same

and actually there is great inequality and difference in status is older than Spretzatura and the sort of like effortlessness distinction that I'm trying to draw and I think that that's because like I think in pretty much every culture the gravest sin is to try and become a god like it sort of

that is sort of like the heart of most culture's moral system that's the worst thing you can do all the indigenous myths about you know the hero who take on the god and be punished for it trying outwit the gods and eventually get gobbled up and why is it

why does Achilles have to die because he becomes he's invulnerable um Achilles has to die tell me because he's so good at killing what if he tries to kill the gods is that way has to die

I thought it was just you know the Achilles heel that too that's you I thought it was just Chekhov's heel if you introduce a vulnerable heel

at some point the vulnerable heel has to be I mean Apollo guides the arrow right Apollo guides the arrow so like I mean that's that's also part of the the Iliads

is that the gods are themselves debating over which side should win right Troy the Greeks and the thing and they're at a deadlock right they're at a deadlock and the thing which sort of

swings it and this is, if memory serves, is that after the death of Patriclus, not cousin but lover, thank you, Brad Pitt, you're meant to be gay. You know, Achilles, the rage of Achilles, you know, the rage of Achilles, it's like deadly, you know, huge thing, is that he just kills fucking everybody. And he blocks up the river. And so the river God Scamander is like, okay, but not in Skamander's river. And Achilles is like, fuck you, do you want some to?

and then I was like, oh, he's gone too far. Oh, oh, he's gone too far. That reminds me. Oh, yeah, that reminds me of something. What we're talking about here as well, like you said, is the role of religion in constraining ambition. So I think that's something that is a continuation in some societies. So, for example, I was talking to,

unfortunately, I'm going to have to name drop him twice because I was discussing this with him, but my boyfriend about... No, I hate that. I hate it. I'm just saying... I could call it my friend, but it feels it feels disingenuous.

Anyway, and he had some good ideas and I always like crediting ideas. I feel... That's another thing. I feel terrible if I don't credit ideas. History student to the core. And he was saying how in the UK he sees it as like this

tall poppy syndrome or whatever comes from different places. So in Scotland it's very Presbyterian nature. And I think it used to be that in England, but I think it's much more class-based, is what he said. And he was like, yes, you know, places where in, I think he said Ireland as well, it is, it's religious, but it's more from a Catholic view, but like Presbyterianism in Scotland, that's what makes you think, if you try and defy that and become too ambitious, it's a very, like, Protestant, who do you think you are, stay in your fucking lane, don't try and, as you say,

defy the gods and defy what is planned for you and defy a humble life. In England, it's, don't defy the class order, which again is God, because ultimately class was about at the top, you have the redatory monarch anointed by God and aristocracy below that. So ultimately it does come down to these old religious frameworks, but they're now mutated in different things. And it was interesting in from the like 1930s onwards when Orwell was writing about how the aristocracy were becoming completely redundant. He was writing about the mediocrity of politicians and how the aristocracy was so stupid now. He was saying they were stupid because they had to become stupid. to deny the truth in front of them,

which is that they are parasites and they are outdated. And they couldn't become, because they had... Oh, I'm a bit of a thicker, really. Yeah, but they basically always argument was that the aristocracy became stupid because they still had a strong sense of duty to the country. And if they, you know, follow this duty through with an intelligent brain,

they would just abscond themselves and remove themselves and have to admit that they were completely outdated and let other people start ruling England and, you know, become more democratic, and they couldn't bring themselves to become the robber barons of America, the Novoich, the merchant class that were now moving up, the financiers. He was supplanting them in terms of wealth and ability. So they just became stupid instead and started making more stupid decisions as politicians. They became Boris Johnson's essentially, which I thought was really interesting. But it shows even from the 1930s on was you had this new, aspirational, ambitious,

bully boy, robber barons, merchant class who were coming in where wealth was seen as, wealth is the the accumulation of wealth from these people was the naked announcement of ambition it was i'm ambitious person but they did not receive as you say the respect they did they were not they were feared they were managed to push their way in using their wealth but they're like Elon Musk he will never get the respect he has not got what's the word spretzeratura whatever say spretzatura he has not got that he is the most desperate man in the world he is mocked he cannot have the one thing he wants which is respect and to tell a good joke I find the way we treat ambition really interesting

and there is another aspect that I want to go into about Timi Shalamee but have you got thoughts on what I just said before I do that? I was thinking about I was thinking about in the most recent series of industry Whitney Halberstrom's speech to the peer point AGM where he sort of says I'm like misquoting because I couldn't find the exact words but it's something like tattooed on my heart

are the words that used to animate every industrialist we want. We want speed. We want efficiency. We want scale. And I think that like the relationship between Henry Muck aristocracy shouldn't be trying too hard. Dda-da-da-da-d-da-vers-wittany Halberstrom, this thing between like older new money, you know, grasping ambitious, irreverent, sacrilegious, also Jewish, right? Like that sort of being part of like these like really old, you know, centuries old forms of anti-Semitism of like you have no regard for anything and you want to tear up the existing social order is like that being sort of embodied

in the character of like Whitney Halberstrom, who's also like a nowhere man, no name, no names, who's who from. And Henry Muck, who in the end finds a degree of peace with himself because he realized he should stop trying. But he's also, Henry, when he says, Eat my shit peasant. It's such a statement of like, he literally says you will never be anything more than like a low-lying mooch. Yeah.

He, at that pivotal moment, he re, in machismo as well, he reasserts the class dynamic that's always existed between these two people, the nowhere man who, you know, one of the best lines and the whole thing is when he says, don't worry, mate, I've always had middle class friends. Yeah. So fucking astute. And it's because the writer's come.

from the world of moneyed classes and aristocracy. But yeah, Henry's saying Eat My Shit Peasant is like him he finds the peace in that moment because even when he's at his lowest he's been completely once again scammed by another con man

he is so, his wife has left him but he has his fucking class superiority. He has his name. He has his name. And that's why he rejects this passport. He says he has his name. And that's when we see him at the end in the boat with his

you know, also fellow aristocrats and he's drinking and he's taking his pills and he's catching a fish and he's just so coddled. He's on house arrest but he's living the most luxurious house arrest possible and his life goes back to being effortless. He strived for effort and he's decided as you say. And that's the thing is that like his story is like like you know, you see him trying to do things, right? So like whether it's in season three loomie, the sort of like ethical, sustainable like blah blah investment or trying in terms of tenders that like he's straining with every sinew to be useful and it fucks him up time and time again right whenever he's trying to be useful he's sideshow bob stepping on all the rakes and so like his acceptance of his place in life is this

feudal idea of what it means to accept your place in life and it goes well i need to just stop trying And so then you've got that like really funny scene of like, you know, he's his two older, you know, relatives and friends helping him catch a single fish while HMS Pinafore. You know, he is an Englishman plays in the background. And yeah, that that relationship and that contrast between sort of global capital based nowhere valuing nothing. And, you know, like English aristocratic, decrepit. a dying way of living and also neither having a moral upper hand. I mean, that's the thing is that I think

that the writers were really conscious of anti-Semitism and really conscious of that sort of like European feudal anti-Semitism and brings that into the story. So it's not just about like, oh well, you know, Whitney is a shit, he is. But it's also this thing of like

how do these different versions of the class system interact when they are forced into proximity was like really, really fascinating language. I know that we've like strayed really far from Timothy Chalameh. And I sort of think that, you know, that's because you were just right at the beginning, which is, you know, he's annoying. It feels like he has perhaps overestimated his talents just a little bit. I don't know if he has, to be honest.

I think he's been making great movies for 10 years. And the thing is, he said he wants to be one of the greats. He didn't say it was going to be a great yet. And that's, so that brings us back to the other point I wanted to make, which again was something I was discussing with my boyfriend, is that Timothy Shalameh's Oscar campaign, and I think this also speaks to the wider culture reception of bragging and ambition and how there is a racialized element to it. Because I think that Timothy Shalames, first of all, he was doing the whole movie Martyrgy Dupreme, a lot of people have talked about this and how, Marty Supreme is actually sort of a study of the post-holocaust generation in America, which is really fascinating and it's like you're on your own as a young Jewish person and now you're in this.

There's a reason they use 80s music all the way through because he's sort of like a yuppie in 1950s America. And it's like this individualism, like, you know, the, the, you're a young person trying to strive against what has just this massive shock that's happened to the generation before, this like genocidal shock. that's happened and trying to mark himself out, trying to make his fortune in this world, where there is still a bullet around to the 70s and it's so telling that one of his best friends in the movie is this black man. And also that they play on racism to do a scam at one point.

It's really fascinating. But there's Timothy Shalameh himself. His campaign was based a bit on incorporating the persona of Marty Supreme. And I also think was influenced by his love of hip-hop culture. And also wrestling culture. Like he did a load of like wrestling podcasts and shit like that. He loves this shit. And that world, like the hip-hop world, I guess the wrestling world, it is all about this like laying down the gauntlet, you know, like bragging. His terrible, may I say, because his frame is not made for it.

Outfits on the red carpet this season are so different from the outfits that Hayder, Ackerman starred him. His new stylist is Taylor O'Neill. She is also Kendrick Lamar. stylist. And he's been wearing a lot of like very loose fitting hip hop, chrome hearts, like the baggy trousers rendered through this, this I guess like runway lens as well. But when he's been in his like supreme his like, he's wearing hip hop fits.

Timothy Shammy, the one thing we know about this man is he fucking loves hip hop and he's always got hip hop. His inspiration is Kid Cuddy. He was hanging up with Kanye before he was like, before Timmy blew up and back when Kanye had still taking some of his pills. and I think he's bringing that sort of like braggado show lay it down, tell everyone about myself

tell everyone about my ambitious you know Kendrick said he wants to be one of the greats I think quite early on his career these people like hip-hop culture is about saying I want to do this I'm going to do this I am this but that is seen as because it is a racialised thing like that is seen as something where if I think if a black actor was doing this

then it would be seen as gosh by the white academy but they'd almost patronise and be like, oh, that's what you do. You know, that's the culture. Whereas I think when Timothy Shalame does it, it's just like, who's this skinny, annoying, arrogant white man? There's not even a cultural backdrop to him that he can tap into. He's just using it and it's playing badly.

That's my take. But I also think different things are different. And like, and this is the thing, which is that, like, I want Dragadocio from rappers. And I want it from wrestlers and I want it from athletes, right? Like even in like high class sports like Formula One where like basically everyone apart from Lewis Hamilton and Esteban Ocon comes from like, like, I'm talking like, you know, the children of like multi-millionaires and billionaires. They grew up in like fucking gated estates. Do you know what I mean? It's like you're rich enough that you can afford for one of your sons to try and kill himself on a race track every weekend.

Like the spare. Is that like I want it in those fields. But part of for me the joy of acting is the disappearing act. And so I think this is the thing and that this speaks to my discomfort with the marketing portion of art becoming so big and so outsized is that I also do feel this about

the sort of like halo around brat or like cowboy Carter and Renaissance as well to be honest is that the marketing component of these works became so big that it did actually like really inhibit my enjoyment of the

artwork that's at the center of it. It became too ubiquitous. So for me it was maybe less about bragging, but the inability for me to forget that there is a person called Timothy Shalame. Actually, I just want to add something there as well, which is like, you know, even with rap culture and hip-hop culture,

that is not extended to black women. Because when I'm thinking about Beyonce, if Beyonce got up out of there and said, I fucking know I'm one of the greats and I've done, like, I have had one of the most impressive careers. is I am and when she was at the peak of like being the number one performer in the world, if she'd said all that, people would have torn her down.

In fact, Jay-Z at the Grammys stood up and went, my wife's made one of the best pieces of work and I was like, look at him begging, that's desperate, why does she want to prove it from these people? And yeah, I don't think the Grammys are an accurate arbiter of good art, but it's really fascinating that she would not,

that fact would not even be able to be stated. Harry's House won over Renaissance. But the thing is that you can do it if you're a female rapper. You can't do it if you're a female singer. Exactly. It's only extended, but even Megan the Stallion. No, if she said, if she said, like, I'm one of the greatest to ever do it. Like, every time a rapper says, I'm the greatest to ever do it, it invites debate, right?

Like, think about Kendrick Lamar in control. I'm hearing barbershop great debates all the time about who's the best emcee, Kendrick Jigger and Naz, Eminem, Andre 3,000, the rest of y'all. Like, that's the thing. right is that he also knows that the minute you make the statement you invite the debate my question is did m&M ever engage in this portion of i felt like he did emo stuff rather than doing the braggado show it's quite interesting that was that was definitely like it's interesting how it just does not work for an actor like timothy shallamee even though

like i do think that hip-hop played such a role in his campaign he even was on four rores yeah and the thing is that it's my girl got a billion is that i just he just didn't let me forget that there is a person called Timothy Shalame and I think this is the thing which is like I'm speaking personally here and I'm not saying that everyone's going to feel the same way but I can't forget Timothy Shalame when I'm watching Marty Supreme I can't he's just like it's like it's Timothy fucking Shalame

and to compare it to uncut Uncatcham's I could forget that I was watching Adam Sandler I was the opposite I really forgot that I like I could see Marty I was like oh Marty I thought Timothy did the best performance he'd ever done in that movie. I think it was like really good acting but like the sort of ubiquity

of Chamoné art like just around the film I was like oh I just can't forget that this is like your bid for an Oscar I feel that way about Leonardo DiCaprio a lot of the time. Yeah because he's always bidding

he was having fun in one battle though I think you saw that and you can see that in the the whistle yeah well you could also see it in the campaign that came after he hasn't been desperate for it like The Revenant. He was just kind of like, yeah, whatever.

And he was much more like just supportive Tiana Taylor. Yeah. And bigging her up. And I thought their relationship was, their relationship did so much for his image. Because she's so beloved. And so. And also closer to him in age.

It's so rare to seem talking to a woman who isn't 25. I know. But that was, her relationship with him and Paul Tom Sanderson has done so much because she's so fucking beloved. And she was really good, even though I do think that the critiques of the part that she played kind of do stand,

I thought it was an odd framing of that role. Just a couple of different lines would have changed what that role is, but maybe that's the point of movie. It's meant to do those things. One thing I thought it was interesting about all of the best actors this year, except what film did I not see? But I saw The Secret Asian. I saw one battle.

I saw Marty Supreme. And what was? I saw sinners. And I thought, interesting, all of those movies, apart from one battle, maybe. It was like, the performances were more than the sum of the movie,

except maybe one battle. I thought MBJ was actually very good in Sinners. I think playing the twins, there was such a differentiation between the twins. But I thought the movie wasn't actually that good. I enjoyed it at the time. And then I thought, God, a lot of that was really hokey. Because it was a really hokey movie.

It was a bit, but I also had a rollicking good time. And actually, I had a rollicking good time at one battle after another as well. And I don't know if I saw I haven't had a Like since tar I haven't had a tar experience No that was my Marty I think

I think Marty you know like cinema That's what I thought my Marty I was like that's a movie But like I had a rollic in good time We need to move on to the moments Wait what do we So what's our conclusion and ambition How do we show ambition

Without getting pelted I don't know man I just Really early on I don't remember saying this. Really early on in my relationship with my now husband. I said to him apparently, I was clearly pissed.

But I was, I apparently said to him, I was like, yeah, I want to be great. That's what I'm here for. And he was like, I'm going to marry this woman. He was like, that was his like, goddamn. Yeah, because in an interpersonal level, when you're with someone like that, they find it really attractive.

my boyfriend keeps being like, I invested at the right time. I bought the dip. He was like, I didn't buy the dip exactly, but the stock's rising. And he says about himself, he's like,

you bought on the dip and now the stock's way up. But they like that, but I think a wider audience or baby, like, if you're not someone with a public profile and it's at work,

if you say to your boss, then if you say to your boss, like, I want to work really hard, they like it. If you say to your colleagues, I want to be fucking great. They're like, who do they think they are?

Yeah, you sound like you're in the running for the apprentice, which is why I said it when I was pissed to him. And... Yeah, because it's a great secret, but it's a truth. A lot of us want to be great in some way. That might not mean, you know, journalism. That might not mean... But we have our definitions of great,

and a lot of us are wired to want to achieve that by society. And then you're punished for expressing that. That's what I don't like. That's what I can't stand. T'was ever thus. Anyway, let's get into another problem. Right. What is it just about England that they cannot see a great man without wanting to pull him down?

It's just people. That's very true. Whatever quote that was from. Wolf Hall. I'm in big trouble. And if you two are in big trouble, send your dilemmas to If I Speak at Navaramedia.com. That is, if I speak at Novaramedia.com. Remember 24-hour amnesty?

Is that what you say? Amnesty. Grace period. Grace period on retracting. You know the drill. After that, it's fair game. Ash, do you want to read out? Or should I actually? Because you read that last time.

Yeah, you read it. Right, I'm going to read out. Hello. I've been having some issues with a jealous colleague slash friend. For background. This girl and I both work in healthcare in the NHS. And we met in our first roles as new grads. We started at the same level and became really good friends.

After two years, I applied and got a promotion. She did not apply for this position. We've both now been working for six years, and she got a temporary promotion for a year, but it's back in an entry-level position. She's understandably quite frustrated and quite angry because she feels undervalued. I've tried to support her with this.

My issue is the way she behaves to me. We work in the same team, but I'm senior to her. She's constantly trying to pull me up on my decision, and questioning my judgment. She does not do this to other team members. When she does this, it annoys me, but it's mainly embarrassing for her because what she's saying is usually wrong, and it's clear to everyone who's present that that is their case. My frustration is she put so much energy into trying to want up me at work when she could be putting that energy into getting new experiences to help her get a promotion. She's also been offered interview practice from seniors

to help her, but she declined this because she felt offended at the assumption she needs this. After her temporary promotion, she received feedback she lacked professionalism in the role and that she behaved like a junior. Do I tell her I'd like her to stop the put downs to me at work? I don't consider her a friend anymore due to this behaviour, but she still constantly tries to hang out with me. So I'm feeling like I might need to tell her why I don't want to hang out with her. Do I tell her the truth? Just to clarify, I'm not her manager at work. I'm just senior.

Any advice much appreciated. Thanks. Ooh. There's what I would do, and then there's what my advice is, which are two different things. what I would do is I would just do nothing. And I know this about myself. I would just do nothing. I'd be like a bit pissed off or whatever.

I'd probably like do a little bit of bitching about them to like my friends and my loved ones. And I would just let it go because to initiate a confrontation could make things worse. But that's a product of my biases and how I react to conflict. So that's what I would do. What my advice would be is that, you know, you go for a coffee, you sort of say, like, I've been getting this read on, you know, you don't make it about jealousy, you don't make it about her. You know, she's probably acting from a place of a sense of feeling inadequate and lashing out at the person closest to it, her. you know who's sort of like that mirror in an uncomfortable way

is you go look I'm sort of like getting this read like is there something that I'm doing that's pissing you off because you know the way in which we're communicating together is making me feel like this so that's my advice but that isn't what I would do I would also do nothing because people like this

they are suffering from bad mind she's got a bad case of bad mind and the problem is if you try and offer help it seems as patronising if she's jealous of you and it's ingrained I'm not going to lie a lot of if her focus is already on sabotaging you

that saying what the fuck is this will only make her want to do it more because she'll feel humiliated and she'll feel like you've exposed her shame which is she really envies you so you just have to sort of neutralise her with kindness as best you can

hold her at arm's length don't ever fucking tell her anything about yourself that could be used against you and no longer have personal investment in her success HR that shit it's not up to you to fix her

you won't be able to she has to sort out of herself as she doesn't people like that usually move on and leave anyway eventually you just have to wait it out but I would honestly do nothing because either way you are getting pulled into her

shame, envy matrix and there isn't really space for you two to exist there together because she's identified you as someone she's envious of and once you covet as we've talked about

in a previous episode then everything just curdles but yeah if the put-downs are getting too much you can just be like hey when she says something you can be like oh what do you mean by that

I don't understand oh really you know just go why act down the whole time, but in a like neutral way. Just neutralise it. The more people have to explain themselves, Louis Theroux start, the stupider they sound and eventually they shut up. This is true.

Cool. In that spirit, I'm not going to say anymore. Okay, this has been, if I speak, you have been. I'm going to be away. Oh, yeah, fuck. So there's going to be what, I think two episodes where I am not with you guys, but never fear for I leave you in Moyer's very capable hands. and the hands of a guest co-host, I believe.

Two guest co-hosts will be joining me. The thing is, Ash is going to be away for a while, but you guys will only notice it for two episodes. So you're quite lucky. You're not actually going to be bereft as much as you think. You'll be bereft for two episodes, but it could have been worse. It could have been so much worse.

It could have been so much worse. But we wish Ashwell and her travels. We wish you a very happy relaxation. I'm going to Dubai. Here, hotels are really cheap right now for some reason. Oh, give all the influences a message. This place, it's called a carg. I don't know, it sounds great.

Do you want to go see the slaves, the slave labour, Clark Island? Oh my God. Okay, have a lovely time, Ash. Enjoy Australia. Enjoy Thailand. Send us some photos and spread the words. Spread the gospel of the podcast down under. I will, I will.

I'm going to be wearing a sandwich board and we're going to have a big bell. Take some of our merch. We need some of new merch. We need to get some new merch. Okay, guys, I will see you next week, but Ash will not, sadly. Okay. Adi for that. Bye.

in the shadow of power in one of the richest cities on earth. A man dies, homeless and unseen. Julia Remish died in an underpass in Westminster, just meters away from the building to govern Britain. Around him were empty homes, dark, locked, untouched. How can someone lose everything in the heart of so much wealth? Follow that question and it leads to a hidden world of money, secrecy and power. A system that decides who gets a home and who doesn't.

This is the kind of place for that relationship between dirty money and the city and the kind of dark money that goes into the political machine kind of meh. Where could this lead? Where does it end? What else can we become desensitized to? I'm Kojo Karam, writer and researcher. And since 2018, this story has haunted me. Death and Westminster is a four-part series from Navarra Media, produced by Planet B Productions.

Listen to Death in Westminster now in the Navarra Media podcast feed.