If I Speak - 13: I’m the problem, it’s me

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

What’s the difference between tactics and standards? Ash explains with a Big Theory about how we behave in relationships. Moya brings a dilemma from an anxious people-pleaser. Plus, Myers-Briggs. Got a problem? Tell us: [e-mail] *Gossip, elevated.* Music by Matt Huxley

Hello and welcome to If I Speak, the podcast for the nosy and under-medicated. With me, as always, is Moya Lothian-McLean. Moya, how you been? Solid. Let's say 7 out of 10. That's quite good. That's on the up. I hear you've got a new personality as well. Oh, yeah. So, I didn't want to mention this because what if there is look all I'm saying is if you peruse dating apps you will get introduced to a new personality test every five or so years and I just got introduced to a new one I'm not going to say which one it is but um I did it but I did two different versions three versions and one said one thing and one said another thing but the first one was much more in depth so i'm gonna go with that but apparently i am a helper type of person

who who would have guessed personality quizzes ever say like irredeemable bastard yeah they i think i think there was um the myers-briggs you can see what hitler was on it i think that was that's on there somewhere i got the same one as margaret thatcher really but also the myers-briggs was made up by two uh like american eugenicists who weren't really scientists at all and just really like young so as as everyone says you know personality quizzes are just men astrology for men so well i was like i did my myers-briggs and i came up as like entj and it was like just like whoopi goldberg and margaret thatcher and i was like what a pair of women to be compared to i wish i was as competent as either of them which one is the entj what's your vibe extrovert intuitive thinking judgmental or at least that

was the snapshot of my personality at that time because that's the other thing all these things are just snapshots of how you think about yourself in any given moment and as we've spoken about many a time in the show we're not always our own best judges of character. But anyway, Rima has it. You've got questions for me. Do I need my lawyer present? You can, what's the, I'm trying to think of police things. What's it you can speak, but it may harm your defence if you do. You have the right to remain delusional.

Yes, you have the right to remain delusional, but it may harm your defence. I do have questions for you um girduloynes number one what's your least favorite spice my least favorite spice probably um asphatida because it's very very very pungent and so you can use a little bit of it and i think that as part of a symphony chorus of spices it can be nice but on its own it's absolute cat urine that's a good one my least favorite is paprika i think it's shit oh why paprika dulls dulls the taste buds dulls the dishes, bottoms out flavor.

I don't, I think paprika does more harm than good. And for too long, it's been coasting along on its rep of sort of like, you know, jack of all trades, put paprika in. No, put paprika in and ruin your food. But recently also I've had a spice revelation, which is obviously cardamom pods, manna from heaven when cooking, devil's eggs when you're actually eating the cooked food and you're crunching down, spice bags. A friend introduced me to spice bags. My food is now cardamom infused, but pod free.

It is incredible. You want to know something that my mom said, which is very, very true. She said, paste makes taste. So anytime you're trying to like make your food taste better, just add some kind of paste. Gochujang, miso, garlic and ginger paste.

Paste makes taste. That is excellent advice. Paste makes taste. Okay, I'm banking that. Second question. What is the thing you're most looking forward to this summer? Oh, okay. That's really easy. My best friend is getting married in August and her wedding is going to be in Spain. And I'm really excited because I've only met her fiance once and I just I'm really looking forward to getting to know him

better and I'm really looking forward to like meeting his family and also it's just going to be an opportunity for all of us mates who are really really close at uni to like gather together in one spot so I'm mega looking forward to that and another thing that I'm really looking forward to is going to the Durham Miners Gala for the first time are you going Durham Miners we've all been I'm gonna go Durham Miners oh my gosh people have been saying we've got to go Durham Miners what about you what are you most looking forward to this summer I I don't know yet I've got um I think I've got okay so I've got a three week week trip planned so every summer this started when I was going through the process of a breakup

and now I try and do it whenever I have disposable income, which is because I'm traveling around Europe, it's cheap enough that I can kind of make it happen each summer. So I'm doing my now traditional three-week trip around Europe and this year I'm doing Serbia, Montenegro, and then meeting some friends in Albania, which is very exciting um so i'm really looking forward to that but i i tend to go in with like not much expectation i find that works best now and i'm a real planner but i'm trying to try to change my approach to travel so instead of like

meticulously planning out everything i have like one main thing i do a day and then leave space to kind of like go where the wind takes me so that's very exciting um apart from that there's a couple of festivals and bits and pieces but i i just kind of want to see what unfolds throughout the summer like i don't want to be too prescriptive about where i'm going but i i don't know when summer exactly starts because i've got a solo trip to crete booked in like two weeks which i'm really looking forward to are you gonna go to nosos ash why do you think i'm going to crete i'm gonna go see what arthur evans did to that archaeological site i'm gonna see how arthur evans fucked up the palace of nosos with his little concrete monstrosities.

Yeah, I'm going to Norsos. Take a ball of string and a sword. You never know what you might find. So true. Okay. Third question. Okay. Gold or silver? Gold.

Oh, easy. Simple. Always, always gold. What about you? I feel you're silver. I was silver, but I've recently moved back to gold. I was silver but I've uh recently moved back to gold and I think it's because I went to Cyprus and got much browner than I normally do in March and was able to wear gold again and now my tan's fading so I'm back to silver and in summer we'll be back to gold again it really does depend on

what my undertones are doing at any given time but uh I mean not to sound like you know silvio bellasconi but i am permanently tanned uh so boys girl yeah gold is gold silvio bellasconi is probably my you know my most problematic problematic fave i just find him so fucking funny like i know it's awful but like a man who introduced the phrase bunga bunga into popular parlance like i'm sorry he's a funny dude it was interesting as i sort of missed this is again the micro generation thing we've talked about before which is i sort of missed silvio berlusconi as a cultural figure i didn't i didn't clock on to bungunga Bunga until after he actually died. Like he was not the figure for me. It was Trump who is in many ways like the latest.

Yeah, he's my Berlusconi. He's the guy who says, get those lights off. Many, many such cases, you know, sad. He's unfortunately a really funny, awful person, obviously. Awful person in acting like canny, but also stupid in a way that's really dangerous for like to be in charge of the world's largest superpower but so fucking funny oh my god sylvia perlusconi the man who once said you know i think everyone is a bit gay

yeah i myself am a lesbian he he predicted um that fifa guy by several years sylvia bellasconi walked so geo infantino could run exactly exactly god yeah trump and bellasconi they are two sides of the same coin and unfortunately just really funny people and with the funniness of the same permatand coin but with the funniness comes those real moments of pathos like i think one of the most striking moments of the 21st century is when donald trump finds out ruth bay de ginsburg has died and suddenly like the persona slips for a second and he goes what can you say she was an amazing woman she was an amazing woman and he says you know i'm just i'm really sad and then he like walks off but as he's walking off because he's coming from a fucking campaign rally tiny dancer

is playing so it's just going like it's just literally saying little gene baby and it literally goes the chorus as he like walks off and there's this shot of him just walking upstairs and it's it's so cinematic you could not write that you could not write that and it's a real moving moment so great with great with great clownery comes great pathos as well. I think we really could dedicate an entire series of this show to Berlusconi and Trump. And maybe one day when we run out of ideas, we'll do that. Shall I share a big theory with you? Yeah, please do before we slip into Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell territory.

Oh my God. Issues discussing serious issues. That's my rory stewart in case it wasn't uh i think it needs more it needs more work than your um ira glasters but we can you know what uh i i was half-assing it but like next time i'll go all in to my rory stewart impression which is generally better it involves really like clamping the back of your tongue to the top of your palate. That's the key to a good Rory Stewart. Anyway, that's a micro big theory. The main big theory is something else. So this is a co-authored big theory and it is born of a tiktok that you sent me earlier the dredging words

yeah i was like every time i wake up like our boys sent me a tiktok what levels of derangement will i be unlocking today just a little peek into the roiling id of Moya Lothian-McLean. But this was actually, I thought, a very intelligent TikTok. All credit or condemnation therefore needs to be shared between myself, Moya, and life coach Matthew Hussey as well. So basically, this life coach, Matthew Hussey, talked about the difference between tactics and standards when it comes to dating. And he gave the example of the woman who's now his wife they were dating in the early days it was long distance and he just went silent for a while and then out of nowhere he

messaged her just saying I miss you and her response was to say this she said to be completely honest with you we haven't been that close for a while and rightly or wrongly what you're doing now comes across like a bid for attention and then what happened next was that he did actually back off from that he took her seriously and backed off and when he backed off cru, she didn't then go running into that space that had been created by his absence. She didn't try a new approach to draw him back in. And I don't actually know how they then reconnected and got married. But in a way, that doesn't matter. Because what matters is this.

The difference between tactics, tactics being something that you do to get a particular response out of someone and a standard and it made me think about something that really was quite transformative for me when I was dating in my late 20s because I had like a series of romantic car crashes like you know and you're just like bad decision oh god here comes another bad decision like mr president a second bad decision has crashed into the twin towers it was just bad decision bad decision bad decision like mr president a second bad decision has crashed into the twin towers it was just bad decision bad decision bad decision um and i came to the realization after these bad decisions i came to the realization that nobody is going to set my standards for me and that if i wanted a fulfilling relationship, if I wanted a

life where I was happy, if I wanted to be only involved in people who are treating me well, if I only wanted to be in relationships that were moving in the direction of the things that I wanted, then I had to be willing to be alone. So when men started behaving in ways which were hurtful or not taking me seriously or more distance than what I wanted, I just cut things off. So I wasn't like, oh, let's talk this through. What's going on with you? Help me understand. I didn't do that because that would be a negotiation and that would be a negotiation on my standards. And it wasn't a tactic, right? I wasn't cutting them off to get them to say, oh my God, I sorry I can change it was literally me going this isn't what I want I'm cutting it off right taking what

I want seriously and saying if I'm serious about the thing I want that means I have to walk away when I'm not getting it and it really was so transformative it changed my self-esteem big time it meant that I didn't get so hurt or so wounded when the guys treated me in ways that were hurtful I just dusted off my hands and so I felt a real sense of self-confidence and agency that I didn't have before and it wasn't because people were treating me better it's because I was treating myself better by being very serious about my standards. And yeah, really early on into my relationship with my now husband, I took that approach. So he tried to cancel our second date for a really good reason. He'd been awake for like two days working through the night because he had a job in politics and it

was the election. So it's fair enough he was like oh I'm really really tired can we can we rearrange but instead of being a sane person I went no no we can't rearrange um you know I've made time for you time isn't something I've got a lot of so if you want to see me at all you see me when we've planned to that's not negotiable and we did see each other that night it was really really nice and later on in our relationship he said actually that was mega attractive and it was mega attractive to him because it was signaling that I took myself seriously and that I was someone that he had to take seriously and again it wasn't a tactic I was genuinely willing to walk away from that if he was to turn around and say well fine then

I'd have been like well fine then but it was a standard and it was standard that then set the tone for how we were with each other like no game playing no mucking around no trying to like play it cool just being very very simple and direct with each other so i think this thing about tactics versus standards the standard it's good for yourself right it just is it is a signal to yourself that you are worth the things that you want and then secondly i think it can be a really important part of forming healthy reciprocal dynamics. So that's my big theory. What do you think?

I think it's a great big theory. I also want to say I know that some people find Matthew Hussey very annoying. This is not an endorsement of Matthew Hussey's entire ethos. This is simply a discussion about one point that he raised that we found uh engaging and something that we could pull out more from um it's funny because i think that i'm i don't know i'm still in i'm it's difficult because we're talking about relational things and i'm trying to think about how i historically like obviously we we tend to talk about how we use things like tactics versus standards when it comes to romantic relationships with people but how we use things like tactics versus standards when it comes to romantic relationships with people.

But I'm also thinking about tactics versus standards in friendships and how as friendship is really on my mind at the moment and how those are enacted. And I can look at my relationships and see how I definitely have resorted to tactics over standards. how I definitely have resorted to tactics over standards. There would be times when, and I think we talked in a previous dilemma about someone doing this, but I would use, you know, the threat of breaking up again and again and again as a tactic to force, I guess, a crisis point where I felt the other person would finally listen to me. But if you don't walk away, then it is, as you said at the time, it's just a tactic.

It's not a standard. And I'm thinking more about how, if you're someone who's quite smart or has that intellectual understanding of other people and worse, you're smart and you're good with words, it can be very hard to get called out on your tactics no one's going to come and call you out on your tactics because what you're able to do is unfortunately manipulate people quite well um and it would take and you will keep i'm thinking of

friends here who i've seen use tactics like uh you know cutting off contact and then coming back when they want and etc etc which form part of a pattern in the way that they try and force emotional responses from people or force engagement when they feel rejected or they feel humiliated by someone and they're so they're often like really just like so such clever women who can talk their way out of things and talk their talk other people into things and i guess i mean i guess i feel you know some people call that gaslighting but it's not quite that but i'm trying to explain it's more like they can use tactics and explain away their tactics as perfectly

reasonable ways of going about things and ways of enacting behavior because no one is really able to match them and challenge them on their tactics in a way that they'll listen to and the only way that i've seen them change their use of tactics to standards is doing self-reckoning so like you said no one's going to come and set your standards no one's going to come and save you from sinking into a maelstrom of using tactics over standards either so you you have to have that wake-up call where you're thinking hang on am i actually is this actually me setting standards is this this me actually saying like, oh, this, this and this and, you know, out of like self-actualization and a place of security? and control this relationship and control this other person because i feel hurt because i feel uh you know threatened like there's a threat to my pride or my ego in some way and that is really hard work to do and something that i still think i'm really in the middle of trying to grapple with

but there is the other question of like what if your standards are just like shit what if it's like if he doesn't pay on every date it's off is that a good standard should people have that standard like what is legitimate because i think nowadays we like we exist at least in a space where everything you know this it's like everything is hyper individual and because of that we can get away with a lot of shit so you can say well you know it's actually a choice for me that i want him to pay all my nails all the time. And that's actually a standard I have. And it doesn't touch you, so you shouldn't bother about it.

And I do wonder about these things because I'm like, on the one hand, it ain't my business. But on the other hand, it does feel like, I don't know, somehow a curdling of relations and what relations should be and just like more movement into this like transactional relationship status so the question of is there such thing as like universally good standards and bad standards to have is another one i'm quite interested in i think that you're really right to identify that there are some standards or things which are articulated as standards which are just complete bullshit so like he's got to pay for everything or like, he's got to pay for my nails or he's got to make this much money or like, you know, on the first date, he's got to be this level of fancy and that's just my standard. You know, my love language is, you know, name expensive brand of your choosing. That's obviously horseshit and it's transactional and you know when I see these things pop up on TikTok and it's articulated in a very I would almost say like in a very almost

like prissy way like it's almost like self-moralizing but at the same time there's a complete lack of awareness that there is a word for sexual favors in exchange for material goods and relationship isn't it like and that would probably be completely offensive to their personal sense of morality this isn't me shaming sex work it's me pointing out that whenever you've had this very transactional idea of in particular heterosexual relationships which is like totally based in like you know social status you know it's quite similar to the norm of like a 1950s housewife whose husband like buys her the washing machine it's so transactional that it is

knocking up against the door of those very sex workers who are like castigated and demonized and seen as so other um that is another micro theory about like the sort of like proximity of like normative womanhood to sex work that I think has just been part of a condition of of gender for centuries um but yeah there are good standards and there are bad standards to have and as ever these things only work when you know yourself and what you want and I think that this is something that you know the the friend of mine who's getting married later this year this is something which I've really relied on her friendship to tell me about myself. Um, because she's the person who has been the external voice of my emotional wants and

needs and desires. Because, you know, being a person who's very good with words, I can try and talk myself into believing that I don't want love and I don't want connection and that these things would make me weak. Whereas she would say, no, these are the strongest parts of you. They're obviously the most woundable parts of you as well, but the strongest parts of you. And those desires are to be honored, not to be hidden away. Don't pretend that you don't have them and so I think that friendship with her really made me identify what my standards are so it wasn't some arbitrary thing about like he's got to jump through these hoops because if he doesn't jump through these hoops my standards aren't met it's about what are the things which really show me that I'm being

respected and taken seriously and that not all of my wants will be met immediately because those are the expectations of a toddler but that they'll be very important to the person that I'm seeing so I think all of these things have to be contextualized within self-knowledge and insight. And the thing is, is that I think that people only start talking about wanting like nails, bags, or like these very material transactional things when they're not convinced real happiness and real respect is possible. The last thing that i was going to say was about the way in which standards are kind of adversarial because you're protecting them against someone else and that does change with time right you're not always in that position of examining someone

for failure yeah i think i think that obviously that's all very applicable to romantic relationships what if someone isn't meeting your standards in a friendship though because if you're starting to date someone whatever that their gender and they don't meet you know standards that you think you have actually thought about and that are not just these arbitrary like sort of demands but things that are really core to what you need i don't know like i need you know communication like consistent respectful communication they're not meeting that fine you can cut off someone that you've been on a couple of dates with but what if it's a friend what happens then how do you negotiate different standards and friendships and have that conversation with someone without sounding dictatorial and being like

you're not meeting my standards because i have had that conversation with someone without sounding dictatorial and being like, you're not meeting my standards because I have had that conversation with people and very little has changed about the friendship actually. And like they haven't met my standards and I resented that. And then I've lowered my expectations and now I'm reckoning with why I expected so much of them or expected a certain thing of them that they never had shown that they would be able to deliver and why couldn't I just accept them on their own terms and it's you know how do you have a conversation about standards without shaming someone or making someone feel like they're falling short how do you have that open discussion without them being villain and you being victim?

So I think that it's a different approach. That's the thing is that I don't think that there is a model that works for talking about romantic relationships and then you apply that to all other kinds of relationships that you have, friends, family, and it's exactly the same. And I think that's because there is something

different about romantic relationships. I think it's different because it's the one which most closely calls back to our parental relationships in a way that friendships don't quite. There's sort of singularity about the romantic relationship which again is different from friendships right you have many friends you have a network of friends and that changes um I think how you talk about things like standards because the word I would use with friendships is needs and I think that you know there have been times where I have failed to meet people's needs. And friends have said that to me. And in one case, I was like, I just don't think I'm capable of meeting your needs. Like, I just I just don't think I am. I don't think that we can

continue the friendship as it was with all of these other things being different. And I don't think that we can continue the friendship as it was with all of these other things being different and I don't think that I can give all the things that you want and need from me and I think it was really painful for that person and I didn't communicate that well or at all but that was the thing that was going on but with other cases when friends have said you've behaved like this and it's made me feel this way or this is a way in which my needs are going unmet I've gone oh shit yeah I can I can meet those needs better and I think that's different from standards because it's a lot less adversarial and I think that more closely resembles what the dynamic is like when you're in a much more long-standing committed relationship because now to talk about standards in relation to my husband

is kind of crazy for us to turn around and be like these are my standards he'd be like well you should have thought about that before we like paid the wedding caterer and like booked the registry office like you know you're very very in at that point then you're much more thinking about like relationality about your needs my needs the spaces of compromise that we can find um and also like use of tactics don't go away it's just that like when you've been together six years we've been together six years the tactics are very obvious so you'll try something out the other person will be like, is this the tactic? And you'll be like, no.

Yes, yes, it is very much a tactic. What's your, just to round this off, what's your chief tactic? What's the tactic you go back to again and again in every situation? Whether it's romantic friendship, work, because I've got one. Maybe you go first. I think I need some time to think about mine I threatened to leave because I'm just like my father no no he just left without saying he actually didn't throw and he just goes he just went um yeah you know same here I just don't pay child support that's my main tactic yeah no I think mine is i've realized mine is very much i threaten

to leave something and i either withdraw and wait for them to like work out i'm withdrawing and come crying and being like where are you going um or like you know that that meme which is like i'm moving in silence like the g and lasagna and it always like people say or people saying stuff like when people say they move in silence but put on their stories i'm very i'm moving in silence but it's like it's all over my story you you know i'm moving in silence can you not say i'm moving in silence so i i threatened to leave that's my that's my tactic and i've realized that now the good thing about patterns and tactics is once you clock them, you really can change them or apprehend them when you're in the middle of doing them. You can change course. I just want people to know that. I think I withhold affection is my tactic. And I become a bit of a cold fish and I become a sort of like to the letter of the law

person. So I'm like, I'm of the law person so I'm like I'm not doing anything different I'm doing exactly the same stuff as usual just with the you know visage of a hateful bitch like I think that's very much the thing that I do you turn into HR I turn into HR that's what they call it it's when suddenly all communication becomes very formal and the full stops are coming into your sentences and you're saying, what would you like for tea? Would you like fish? Yeah. I'm afraid I don't have the time for that. Sorry, going out now. I think that that's the thing that I do. And it's also so obviously different from the way in which I'd normally be connecting with people that it's hilarious that I would ever think that that would not be perceived as a tactic like it's how self-deluding am i but you're not it's not that you don't think it would be perceived

as a tactic deep down you want people to see it that's the point it's like you're it's a cry to be noticed it's a cry to notice the pain that you're feeling that's what tactics are they otherwise they would be standards tactics are a way for, when we don't feel able or we're not able to communicate how we feel for whatever reason, whether that's immaturity or lack of self-awareness, we turn to our tactics to communicate for us. That's what the tactics are. I mean, I think that going back you know, going back to like the discovery of tactics versus standards when I was in my late 20s. I like first implemented that in a way that was really quite extreme. So I'd been seeing this guy and I was working in Amsterdam at the time.

And he was like, oh, can I come with you next time you're in Amsterdam? I was like, yeah, sure. So I like, you know, he came with me to Amsterdam I introduced him to like my colleagues and my friends then when we got back he just like disappeared for like three weeks and I remember thinking to myself oh should I try and open up a conversation should I try and do this should I try and do that and I was like I just can't be arsed like I just can't be arsed to have a negotiation about what I think of as like a very basic standard of decency. Particularly when someone's like shared a bit of their life

with you that you asked to see. So I just deleted his number. I just like deleted it off of my phone. I didn't say that I was doing it. I didn't like do any final passag farewell. I just deleted it off my phone and then three weeks later he messaged me and he was like oh you do want to hang out and I was like I don't know who this is like there is no name attached and then we ended up meeting up and I remember tactic he was so that wasn't a standard tactic he was you tacticked no no it's because it's because we it's because we it's because we not in a date way but I think he was a bit confused um and he was like what why why did you do that and I was like oh well it just you'd sort of disappeared and

that was quite a clear message to me um and he was like oh and then he was like oh I'm really sorry I didn't know that you know you wanted me to be your boyfriend and I remember stopping him and being like do people normally delete your number when they they want you to be a boyfriend i don't want you to be a boyfriend i just didn't want you anymore like and we ended up leaving in a nice way we we see each other and it's fine like i have no ill feeling towards them but like you know that was a very extreme way of doing it at that time. I would say there's actually a couple of things mixed up in there that, forgive me if I... You think it's a tactic?

I think, I don't know if it's a tactic per se. I would challenge your reading that it was a standard. I think it was beginning the transition to a standard. But the fact you met up with him said that that transition hadn't fully gone. And also that you didn't communicate with him that you were deleting his number or that you were going to just cut it off. It was a test. You were waiting to see if he did get back in contact.

And when he did, you did meet him. You wanted him to know that you had been hurt by this or that it was painful in some way. And you hurt him back by saying i didn't want you anymore like there's if you had truly been the standard you would have said you just just said hey by the way like this isn't working for me no hard feelings let's leave it here cool but that's not what you did you did the classic hurt let's put him in the archive i cannot tell you the amount of people that i've muted that i've archived that deleted all their numbers and wait for that satisfying

little plus four four to come back on as a signal of how little i care except i'm texting them all the time and agreeing to meet up with them so obviously there's there's care there uh yeah that's just my reading of that situation which is no i mean I think I think I think there's I think there's truth in that I think like I mean this was obviously years ago now but like I do remember saying like oh I just don't think it was working like let's just leave it and he was like oh no we should go for a drink so I did and repeated the same thing and I think like you're right there was some element of tactics in there but for me it, it was very, I didn't feel that hurt. I didn't feel that hurt or confused. And I didn't really want to know what was going on with him.

And that was different from how I would have been before. Yeah. Because rather than looking at it as like either a comment on myself or like, oh, well, there must be a reason. I was like, I don't really care what the reason was it's happened and that's enough for me to take a read on like you know what what I should do next um I mean for you now like you know you've you've mentioned that you're back on hinge have you thought about what your standards are if you had to articulate them? I mean, I already know what my standards are.

The problem is I'm the issue. It's me, hi. I'm the problem, it's me. My standards are, you know, my standards are just like respect, communication. those are those I have I have basic standards um but then mixed in with that I have my I'm trying to unpick what are my standards and what are my anxieties which is a whole other thing like not wanting to be not wanting to be boxed in not having people come on too too hard too fast in my opinion but I'm also massively

avoidant so there's all these different things so what I'm trying to do now is when I'm arranging dates I'm trying not to overthink it I'm trying and by overthinking it's not like oh I want this person to be my husband and all that what my overthinking is talking myself out of doing it because i get freaked out and i just worry it's too like oh they're going to be this they're going to be that i can't sit through this and instead just go with it just relax like stop projecting onto this person that you don't know um but yeah standards standards wise it's hard to say because yeah go on so go on what were you gonna say i was gonna i was gonna say that like it's hard to say because yeah go on so go on what were you gonna say i was gonna i was gonna say that like it's interesting to hear you talk about standards versus anxieties because

i think that there are some like inherently anxiety inducing things about meeting someone and romantically connecting with them and that mad dance of uncertainty that everyone is doing in those early stages and that's actually part of what makes it special and kind of nice the fact that you know for all of your competencies in life and all of the things that you've done to build yourself up there is this like kind of wormhole tunnel straight to the center of the self um and that's what like dating and romance is and i remember you know after the first time like i mean my partner hooked up for the first time like i was with my friends the next day and you know one of my friends was like oh okay so you hooked up with so and so how was that and i was like oh it's fucking terrible man and they're like what why

and i was like oh because i really like him yeah it's just like a carte blanche to like treat me like a mug like this is so shit I thought I was doing so well and now like here I am back on the fucking dumb bus like let's go and I think that I don't know there's something exquisite in that agony there is something exquisite in that and lean in a bit there is there's something exquisite in that agony there is something exquisite in that and lean in a bit there is there is something because i think the other aspect is to it that i worry that i will i'm i'm healing too much and i will never be able to feel that insane rush of emotion ever again that you only get when you are unhealed. No, that's not true. That is not true. That is not true. It's not true at all. Like, I'm just going to say that, like, it's not true. And the rush will be different, but it will be there.

Things are different when you meet someone who's also serious about their standards and it doesn't take the uncertainty out of it but it takes some of the bullshit out of it and you can communicate in a way which is direct and reciprocal you both take each other seriously and that's the beginning point for what happens next there's still that sort of like rush and that like compiling of playlists and that dreaminess and you know um it feels like you know that like max richter spring when like you know the the strings are just sort of like you know exploding and like leaping up like you know larks shooting out of a tree that's all there but there's just a reduction in horseshit that makes it more fun that's a great note to end on also can i just plug the fact that i already made all the playlists i have an extortionate amount of playlists public

playlists one for love one for sex one for breakups i'm constantly updating and then various other ones but those are like the trifecta that i put together i listen to these all the time like i love listening to love songs and feeling you know that way i love putting myself in those mindsets it's just when it comes to actually living out the emotion i tend to be more reticent now but what's your number one love song oh no it changes every fucking day ash it changes every day number one right now the one that came to my mind just right now and this is not the number one love song uh for love right now it's probably you send me by aretha franklin or ain't no way mine was an aretha franklin song as well oh really which one's yours one step ahead oh

that's the one that Kanye um is it I can't afford to stop the sample or is it something else which one am I thinking of this one which is like um there's a very famous sample and that's used in that it's got those like lovely strings and at the beginning she's so restrained almost whispering i'm only one step but yeah yeah that one um but it really depends the one the song that i'm really into at the moment which is so cliche i've got into chapel roan yeah everyone's in chapel roan claire our head of articles was into chapel roan before anyone else in chapel rome so she's like i saw chapel rome at heaven way back when so i have to cite that claire was into chapel rome but there's um i'm really in like spring how i put it uh fire in my loins era at this stage and oh wow there's it's just spring isn't it everyone's just like there's something in the air

when it starts hitting and there's a line in um chapel row and i think red wine supernova there's a lot of songs about being really horny for someone and in red wine supernova there's a line that goes like want me to fuck you baby i will because i really want to and it's like the way she sings that it's just like so raw with like this long and she's like i will because i really want to and i'm just like that is it that is that nails that feeling of like yes i will i'll do it let's let's go it's just yeah she slaps slaps wow should we do some dilemmas yes this is our dilemma segment which trouble. Ready? I'm an anxious people pleaser and I'm trying to move towards being more honest in friendships like a real adult. Sweetie. That's a nice little aspiration you got there.

I agreed to go on a walking holiday with a friend and her friendship group a while ago knowing that i'll probably find it quite tiring slash draining spending a weekend making conversation with a group of people i don't know who all know each other very well while also not sleeping in a dorm room as i have chronic insomnia which is at its worst when i'm away i struggle with my energy levels on a daily basis due to various health conditions, but the friend that invited me often dismisses this as playing the disabled card. I'd like to change my mind about going on this holiday and be honest with her about why, but she can take things very personally and has a tendency to hold a grudge. I don't want to ruin our friendship, but I also want to shift the dynamic. Brackets, I'm the surf baby in this dynamic and she is the tyrant mummy.

How should I approach the conversation? Thank you for your immense wisdom should you choose to respond. Ah, thank you very much, listener. What do you reckon, Moya? Oof. You're doing that thing where I've read the dilemma and then you're making me answer it first

that I always do to you, which is a taste of my own sour medicine. Eat it up. I'm thinking like what you would say which is that this friend is not a good friend to you why why did you why why do you want to maintain this friendship but you've said you do so i'm gonna i'm gonna go with there i think you know i either this friend herself has disabilities because I can't see any other way that you would accept that she dismisses your health conditions as playing the disabled card unless she is someone who herself suffers from disability sort of suffers lives with disability sorry um because I don't I don't understand how you would accept that as like a loving and caring thing for someone to say.

Something that completely erases conditions you live with that impact the way you live your life. Because not to get into the wheeze, but like it's pretty ableist of someone to go, you're playing the disabled card just because of the adjustments that you need in order to make sure that you're like safe, happy and secure. That to me is crazy. That's not good friendship. So I have to presume she must have something about the way she lives her life that makes you forgiving of that or makes you think that that's not a big deal. But if not, then that's something I would initially go from because that's a crazy thing to say. go from because that's a crazy thing to say um how do you approach the conversation practically i would write down notes this is this is what i do when i have difficult conversations

i make notes i really think out what i'm trying to say because when you're in the throes of a conversation you often can get like off piste and the emotions are running high and it can be very difficult whereas if you put right out the key things you want to say and get across, like, I love you, I care about you. However, I can't go on this holiday. This is why it makes me feel like X when you dismiss this as playing the disabled card. I don't want you to feel shame about this or feel defensive. I'm trying to explain this so that our relationship can get better. But I need you to understand how I have to live my life differently because to make sure that I am healthy, happy, safe and secure. And that means taking into account my needs as a disabled person. as a disabled person um and if i don't want to do that if you if she can't if you can't do if she can't understand that you shouldn't be friends but you can't have a friendship where someone is

just right steamrolling over such a huge facet of your life and refusing to make those accommodations because is that a friendship or is that just as you've pointed out she's the tyrant and you are the sir constantly that to me is not a reciprocal dynamic I think that's really really good practical advice especially the bit about writing notes down it's something which I also think really helps your memory and it's not that you necessarily have to sit there with the physical page of handwritten notes in front of you but it's a way of making like a little contract with yourself about what's important and it just drills it into your brain

in a way that I find really helpful for difficult conversations um I think I'm going to start with the first sentence I'm an anxious people pleaser and I'm trying to move towards being more honest in friendships like a real adult. I think this is a small portion of the thing you're actually dealing with. The thing you're actually dealing with isn't just, oh, how do I be honest in my friendships? How do I move past being a people pleaser? The thing you're dealing with is how do I live as a disabled person knowing that the people around me are going to have to make different choices and accommodations for me to participate in social life I think that that's

actually the bigger context that you're talking about and that's something which I can only make very limited leaps of speculation into what that's like. I've got no idea what that's like. And I can imagine that it's really quite frightening because you want to be generous and giving and accommodating of other people's needs and go along with things that they want to do. And you've got these limitations, which are not of your choosing and I can understand that it can feel like an act of selfishness when you're saying to people well here are my needs and I think the first thing I'd say is that it's not selfishness it's actually really helpful for other people when you make clear what your needs are. I find it helpful when other people make clear what their needs are because it gives me

solid, it gives me something solid to respond to rather than trying to like read between the lines and second guess whether someone is just going along with something because they think that's what's going to be most socially smooth or if that's something they can actually do so the first thing is that being very open about what your needs are is an act of generosity not selfishness um and the second thing is that you may have to find different friends if the people around you are unwilling or disparaging of even the idea of making these accommodations. And I think that you know deep down that you've gotten yourself into a pickle out of a fear of imposing your needs. Otherwise you would never

have said yes to a walking holiday with a group of people sleeping in a dorm room when you have insomnia. The very fact you've written that all out makes it quite clear to me that you know that this isn't something that you can do. So the question is, how do I say that? I think that the first step is giving yourself permission to, you are absolutely within your rights to say, you know what? I was wildly optimistic about my capacity to do this. And it's not a comment on you guys. It's not a, you know, on you guys. It's not a, you know, running off in a huff. It's me saying, I just physically can't do it. And if this particular friend who accuses you of playing the disabled card responds in a way, which is like hostile, callous, unempathetic, maybe you've got some of those notes which lay out what your needs are and say, well,

this is a reality for me and this is my reality. But if they can't make those accommodations, they're not really being a friend to you because this is bigger than disability in a way. They're saying we can only be friends if only a tiny portion of who you are comes to the party and that's not that's not a real friendship you're someone who lives with disability it's not an onerous thing the accommodations that other people make it is something which allows you to bring your whole self to the social gathering also fuck walking holidays you don't need you don't need to you didn't need to go on a walking holiday no one needs to go on a walking holiday i love i love a hike but a walking holiday

it's not a holiday it's it's a walk it's it's a it's it's a task like a holiday is where you're you know you can go and walk during the holiday but you can also lie prone on the beach um yeah walk to the Aperol Spritz and I think coming back to the dilemma you deserve a holiday where you're free or as free as possible from the ableist gaze and it's not going to be restorative or fun where you feel you're having to constantly push past what your capacity is in order to not meet with the disapproval of the people around you. That's not a holiday. That's psychological torment. God, yeah.

You're trying to put yourself on the Guantanamo of holidays. The Guantanamo of holidays. Get yourself off that holiday. Guantanamo holiday. That's, get yourself off that holiday, have that conversation with your friend and book in some gorgeous vacation where you can,

you're not pushing past your capabilities. Instead, you're relaxing into your desires. That's my advice. That's such good advice. And you know what? I think that's a good note to wrap up on. What show has this been? This has been If I Speak with me,

Moira Lovie-McLean. And me, President George W. Bush. what show has this been this has been if i speak with me moya lady mclean and me president george w bush bye Bye.