If I Speak - 131: Is there an upside to AI-generated porn?

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Ash and Moya talk about porn, sex work, desire, ‘duty sex’ and more in a conversation sparked by a mystery question. Is AI-generated porn driving viewers to more extreme content? Has OnlyFans made it harder to be a woman on the internet? Plus: advice for a bisexual woman who’s got history with her new housemate. CN: This episode contains mentions of child sexual abuse at 18m and 23m. Watch Ash’s interview with Patricia Nilsson, author of Guilty Pleasure: https://novara.media/patricia Send us your dilemmas: [e-mail] Music by Matt Huxley.

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That's navarot. Dot media forward slash the cortado. You in the Chinese horoscope because I'm a monkey. I'm a pig. Ah, obviously. Wink, wink, wink.

Anyway, forget the Chinese horoscope. I have questions for you. Forget the monkey slander. Forget the monkey slander. I have questions for you because this is 73 questions minus 70 and it's happening on the podcast if I speak, which I didn't know.

I know what I was about to say. This is 73 questions my 70s, which regular listeners who I'm addressing because you're beloved and new listeners, you can just jump in and join the rides. We trust your intelligence. You'll pick up what's going on. Stop flirting with the listeners. I can't help it. We ask 70 questions, but we forget most of them.

Yeah, is that the maths? No, we ask 70. The 73 are drafted. 70 are edited out. Yes, yes. and that definitely happens. Anyway, I have three, and I today am in the hot seat asking Ash Sarka. Actually, that's the cold seat.

You're in the hot seat. Yeah, I was going to be like. Atchaka's not. You're like any seat. I'm in there's always like a hot seat. It's quite temperate in here right now. Okay, let's get down to business. Inspired by someone I won't name.

Has there ever been an artist or creative, so filmmaker, you know, something else, whose work you used to love, but now you consider it. dog shit. M-I-A. Go on. You know? Like obviously, obviously her, like,

early work was fucking amazing. And there was this, like, I don't know, a sense of, like, loving life that came from it and a sense of, like, really loving London and big cities

and sort of, like, multi-ethnic working class. Like, that's what she was speaking to. Um, and yeah, now just a bit cooked. Kanye West. Of was probably, like the biggest biggest one.

I mean, I loved him as a producer, right? I loved his music when he was a producer when Jay-Z was saying, Kanye Z, you're a genius. I was like, he is a genius. And college dropout came out and I remember hearing through the wire

on the radio for the first time. And I just, I cannot, I can't listen to his old music anymore. That's how far it's gone. I just can't do it. I have to avoid it. It's a shame. Kanye is also mine.

But as you know, I have the thing where he was like, he is legally yay. I know. That distinction, I can't do it anymore. I just can't do it. Something I must be able to not do that much because I don't tend to listen to his old stuff as much you'd imagine for someone who's like such a dedicated fan. Like I don't go back to it deliberately.

It's only if it pops up on the playlist. I've heard her gospel album is good. Really? Yeah, I've heard her gospel album is actually really good. And two different people, Chal has come in. Chal, who is a music officianto, and that's literally her job, has come in, producer Chal has said, it is so good. So I think we have to know. We have to, we have to make a little addendum there. Okay, all right. Listen to the gospel album. Right. Oh, you know, okay, what can you worst song do you miss the most? Sorry, I'm flipping the script. What can you rest on to I miss it? It's too hard, Ash, because I really was like the fully most

dedicated. I would have to say the entirety. It's the hard because some days it's like I do want to to listen to a eight or eight or it's a heartbreak. Some days I'm like, I'm in a college dropout mode. Some days I'm like I want the full cornucopia of my beautiful twisted dark twisted fantasy. Like some every album of his I treasured in a different way. Like I know that eight or eight or heartbreaks isn't his best, but sometimes it's fucking cold outside and there's mist and you just want to listen to streetlights or robocop and that icy synth music. And sometimes you're like, I want to listen to family business. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There was so, I liked him both as a producer and the rapper. I was on board so fully. I mean, whenever I listened to two words, I feel like I could run through a fucking wall. Two words, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do it, too, too, do it. Two words, most of hatch. Every time they did these big, long collaboration songs as well, Connie was so good at that.

It would just be another verse comes in by another person. You were like, he really did. I mean, did he originate that or not? Am I making that up? No, that's not. He didn't originate it, but he was really good. I would say the best guest verse on any Kanye song is Pusha T on Runaway. See, I think that is better than Nikki Minajah monster.

Yeah, I think it's better. Now pick your next move. You can leave or live with it. With it. But that album, one of the reasons I think that album is equivalent to Brat. So in terms of, when you listen to those albums, it is a slice of every record they have produced before comes together in this one thing

there's like a tiny piece of everything they've experimented with in this magnum opus statement and then they have to strip it all back and do something else which is why you get, I think it was Yeezus that came out after that and then you get Yeasus

and you get rock fashion film what the fuck it was called where it's like this totally stripped back total. But there's... There's... The life of Pablo. Yeah, of course.

But the one that came immediately after was like... We're going into like a nine inch nails. Because before it had been like everything built, built, built, the scents, the strings, like the production. You had 20,000 people on all of the lights. Like it was maximalist. You'd be like, what's Fergie doing here?

Yeah. And you can hear Furkey. Like when you actually hear about this person, you're like, oh, Elton John's like, okay, I can hear him. I can hear his piano. So, and then he was like, rights to pull back. So Charlie's the same. I'm not saying, I don't think fashion music film is as good as users.

it's way more uneven in users, but it was the same thing of like, we're going to put everything we've learned or honed into this one magnum opus and then we're going to start again. Yeah. Next question. Next question. I just wanted to talk about Pusha T some more. We can do that. One day we,

I need to see that culture thing again where I do a little culture quiz. Maybe we have a Christmas culture course. He's one of, I think that push tea and this last thing I say that, I think he's one of the best character rappers. And you get that in runaway. I think like, I remember

reading that Kanye rejected his like initial first takes on the verse for not being sort of like cold enough or like emotionally brutal enough so like push tea comes back and it's almost dry is fucking incredible for this and I think it was ferrell who's pushing him on call my bluff which is you know he does it in this sort of like slightly sing-song way of like everything don't need to be addressed pull-ups like a faredex truck um and it was like feral pushing him to be like don't don't do this in like your kind of like B-boy pose. Like, you know, how can you convey menace? Um, not going through the usual sort of like vocal postures to do it.

And the thing that like connected for Pusherty was Heath Ledger's Joker. So he finds that sort of like, um, higher pitch, like more musical cadence and he puts it into that track. I fucking love Pusher. I love Pusher. He's ever done acting? That feels like something that he'd be able to transition into. I don't know. Because the best rappers are people who are actors.

Yeah. Because it involves like voice acting plus being able to really inhabit a character, as you say. Which is why Nikki Minaj fell off so badly. She's a bad actor. But she also got that training. Anyway, blah, blah, blah. We really did music app because we just love talking about it. based on my lower tech thing

and what I've been learning what app could you actually not give up? City Mapper That's old school. Ever moved to Google Maps and you're still there at the restaurant? I love city Mapper. What's wrong with city Mapper? I find it's more accurate in terms of predicting how long it will take to get somewhere. Yeah, Google Maps

sucks. It doesn't recognise a lot of roots. Google Maps is like this could be anywhere between 20 minutes and two hours now, I don't know. And Citi MAP will be like this will take you seven. 17 minutes. Yeah. But also Google Maps, you'll be,

it's GPS has got way worse. So like, if you're walking someone you don't know and you aren't looking at the actual names of the roads and trying to navigate yourself a little bit, you'll be five minutes past load. It'll be like, mate,

you should have turned back there. What are you doing? What's wrong with you? And then it's like, don't make this out to be my problem. This was you. Especially worse than driving. Anyway.

Okay. Last one. Shag-Marry kill. Oh, great. Gregs, Gales, Pret. Oh, I don't really like any of them. That's why it's hard. Right, I'm shagging Gregs because I cannot be in a lifelong commitment with Gregs,

but every so often you want the pink icing Tottenham cake, you want the cheesy, beansy bake, the chicken bake was probably my number one bake during secondary school. So I'll dip a toe. I'll get down and dirty. I'm going to have to kill gales. There's obviously the political reasons, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But I'm going to say something that's going to make me sound lame. Sometimes their bread hurts my mouth. That's political. That's political. That's fine. I've never eaten bread. Sometimes their bread hurts.

my mouth. Which leaves me with Pratt. It's a loveless marriage. Yeah. Neither of us really want to be here. But it's convenient. Pratt is convenient. Pratt is very convenient and I think I would pick the same as you. There's nothing there I want. There's nothing that I ever want. I do get the double chalk cookie very occasionally as my Friday treat when I'm on a train. If I've been on a train all week, then I'm like, I've got to have it. Like there's nothing. I need to. I need some joy in the life and I'm in prayer again but I don't I can't have anything there that I actually like actively. Greg's I do like the yum yum yum. Isn't that another is that a canny song is that the Jay-Z song I can't remember. I think that's it's got to have it. It's got to have it.

I think it's watch the throne. Yeah. It's actually both of them. Yeah, it's got to have it as a joint one. Watch the phone. Again, a friendship that went sour because they started, they went from collaborators to equals and mirrors and Jayzie didn't like. that. Um, yeah, and I'd kill Gales because I'm really opposed to it posing as artisan bakery on chain scale and charging that much. And also, those tiny salad pots they have, first rule, fuck you, fuck you. They're like 800 fucking calories. I know that shouldn't matter, but it should matter because that's, that's like, fucking nearly all your calories for a day and one salad pot that costs 699. Are you huffing glue? I don't like it. Huffing glue. Right. Okay. We shall move

on. Yes. This week, producer chal has a mystery question for us. I'm holding my phone. I hope it's about push a tea. I hope it's about push a tea. I could talk about his brother. I could talk about the fact that he named his first child, Bricks. Is he secretly one of your favorite rappers apart from Kendrick?

Have we talked to us? Yeah, no, it's not a secret. It's not a secret. It's not a secret. I love push a tea because like him, I love math. movies and cocaine. No, no, don't even look cocaine. What are you talking about?

That's a lie. If we had sponsors, we wouldn't be allowed to say that and that's why it's good this podcast has. As no sponsors. I love mafia films, though. You're not a cocaine person either, though. Ding. Right.

Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Mm. Pusher tea once said. No. What? You really have me that. Producer Chow says, I heard a man on a podcast say that porn will soon have no need for actual women.

Sorry, I booed over the top of that. Can you read that again? As soon as I had a man on a podcast, they went boo. Sorry. Sorry, listeners, that was rude. I heard a man on a podcast say that porn will soon have no need for actual women. Is this progress? Well, you just did a whole episode about how the frameworks of porn, actually the frameworks for the entire internet. Yeah.

I really enjoyed interviewing Patricia Nilsson, who wrote a book called Guilty Pleasures. And it's about how online porn and the sort of UX and the incentive structure and the financial model actually tells you a lot about not just the wider internet, but the modern economy. and I thought that it was an angle that I've really not seen before. I thought that the work was really original. It was obviously thoroughly researched and she's a good communicator. I really enjoyed Chang to her. I really enjoyed Chang to her.

Like once she like warms up and she feels comfortable in herself, she's just firing nor cylinders. She's an incredible, incredible writer and a good communicator of those ideas. I suppose for me, I'm going to throw the question back to you by sort of refining it because I know what I think, but I don't want to talk forever and ever and ever. So I'm going to stop. I like it when you talk forever and ever. You just interviewed someone about porn and the internet.

So I feel like maybe the person with the more expertise on this. Ney, nay, nay. Should talk. Is that porn no longer having a need for women is obviously about AI, which is if you can remove the either, Economic exploitation, which even people who are, you know, pro-porn or porn positive would say, yeah, that exists in the industry. if you can remove a worker being exploited to make the content. Or if you're someone who, you know, has that radical feminist view, porn is the theory, rapist the practice,

you think that like what it is that you're watching is inherently harmful to the woman participating in it, that you're removing the individual body or bodies who in your mind are being treated in a degrading fashion. that that's better for women. So I throw back to you. What is this just about women? I mean, that's the sort of context I'm thinking about this from. I presume because the man,

if it was a man on a podcast, let's take Chow's question at face value and say this man on the podcast was saying specifically, Paul will have no need for women. I presume he was framing that as, we don't even need those bitches anymore. But when I hear that, I'm like,

well, why are we gender limiting this? Well, if we're doing AI porn, why do we need performers at all? Would it not be porn has no need for any humans whatsoever? And to me, it's hard to say because I'm instinctive, like, I don't think it's a good or bad thing. I think it is a thing, it's a thing with feathers. It is a thing that has pros and cons in that I, I think there's an element of if everything's AI and porn, I prefer the uncanny nature because I do think that it's like a lack of exploitation

however and the desensitization will still happen it might happen to a worse degree I can't see how it would be any worse than what already exists and involves human exploitation all of the darkest twisted like the structure of porn that was it Patricia Nielsen you're saying

talks about and correct me if I'm wrong is the same, it's sort of like built the framework that YouTube works on which is that you have videos and then the algorithm user generated content like these free videos and the algorithm then will push you further and further into niches and holes

and these like very specific not even fantasies like I think I was talking to Sean about this because Sean also interviewed Patricia Nielsen and she was saying that you know in the nice of all that that research into women who have rape fantasies but the point was that's like a a subsumed sort of thing about, you know, expressing desire

without actually expressing desire, whereas like when you get to porn videos, it's just black and white. It's like, here is some rape. You like rape. Here is some more rape. It collapses the sort of like ambiguous status of fantasy. Yeah.

And all those videos already exist. Every sort of degradation you can imagine exists online already and is out there. The human brain has made it and the structure of video pornography has catered to it and then made it worse because it's like you like child abuse, here is some more child abuse. And it might not be on like the mainstream porn sites, but it's out there for people to seek and find and be suggested if they're working,

like with on the dark web. You like bestiality. Here is some more bestiality. You know, like it codifies and I guess taxonomizes desire and makes it this very, black and white thing that can be clicked on and watched and as you said there's no sort of like there's a complete collapse of like the context and like fantasy in that way it just becomes this blession blood thing and I can't help but think if that's fucking AI yeah great you know what I think that's really good compared to what we have now but I also think in general it's it's

treating the symptom rather than the cause I as I get older more and more I'm like dorkin where I think pornography is such an evil and the framework it has produced for the internet is such an evil. Like it's the, if pornography is creating this world or online pornography and the economics of it is creating this world where, uh, you know, that became a blueprint for like YouTube where it's like, oh, you've watched this thing that references right wing sentiment. Here is some more right wing sentiment. Here is this other thing. Here is this other thing. Here is this other thing that takes us further and further into a digital whole and a world that is parallel but separate from the real lives we live. Um, I think that's all the.

the much bigger problem. I just think pornography is the epitome of like disconnection, the lack of embodiment, which I'd love you to talk about, giving yourself literature. So yeah, I think overall I'd say AI, bring in the AI performers. So I actually think for that reason, I go in the opposite direction.

So I'm starting from the position that I think that embodiment is a moral limit. So obviously having a body which can't do absolutely everything, we are not omnipotent, we are not omnipresent, we are confined by time, space, body, physical limits is that that also creates moral limits. And so building on what we talked about with Gay Bullard, and I hope you were pleased to see in the South Bank lecture that there were so many of your thumbprints all over it. I did see that. And there was so much that came from these conversations. conversations and I hope hopefully that shows you the value of this podcast and this dynamic to me communal thinking as well my boyfriend's was like because I'm like I need to credit you with these things you say he's like where all ideas are produced communally do not get that and that's why

tennis lift is flopping right now because that's why she's not even you're thinking um but like out of the Starbucks conversation we had which is the way the Starbucks app changes um what happens inside the Starbucks so it's also like ah but it changes how people order so you end up with these you viral TikTok creations where it's like 20 pumps of different syrups and blah blah blah blah blah and in real life if you went to a counter and you ordered like that someone would look at you like you're a twat and you probably wouldn't do it right there are obviously some difficult customers anyone who has worked in hospitality of any kind will know that um but that sense that your entitlement will be on full view and someone will be looking at you and reacting to

you, you, the physical presence who is there, acts as a limit on what you can demand of people. And so that was sort of like a silly, like, low stakes way of going, well, embodiment is a moral limit. And what digitisation does or digital mediation does is that it invisibleises the sort of aspect of what it is you're asking someone to do,

invisibilizes the labour, and that's the sort of Gabe Ballard's convenience argument but it also invisibleises your entitlement. It also invisibilizes you, the person who is making a demand or entering a prompt or something in a particular way. He actually makes that argument later in the book, which I've now got to.

Smirt, smart, smart. Should probably get him on. We should probably get him on. So yeah, embodiment is a moral limit. I do not think that because if you introduce AI porn into it, that it takes away a human being who is having to perform these. that that takes away the moral content of what it is you're consuming,

what it is you're asking to be made. So there's obviously an extreme example, but I think it's an important one. When it comes to AI porn involving children, so, you know, artificially rendered images of child sexual abuse, I don't think that just because there is not a real child being harmed, that that changes the moral status of what's being made. I don't think that we have a right for every desire or every fantasy to be reflected back to us.

We have the right for some to be, but certainly not all of them. And I think that there is something, you know, I'm troubled by porn both in terms of content and structure. You know, I don't like, I'm just like, I'm just trying to see some regular, regular sex. And then why are you hitting her? Why are you hitting? Like, ah, I don't want this. You know, so that's an example of content.

But also the form, the, like, taxonomy, the categorization, the, like, limitations of, of the, of the, like, limitations of the, of the, And I think if you add AI to it where you go, it's what I'm viewing is a product of my prompts and my commands, how that then plays out in real life sexual encounters, right? Because porn does have an impact on real life sexual encounters. It does. Like, you know, the study's done on, shall we say, like, unasked for choking, right? You know, unasked for hitting. That's changed what we think of.

being normal in ways that people are wholly unconscious of because things which once have been understood as being a kink and then coming with all of the um sort of social codes around kink in terms of consent and safe words etc etc that now it's just seen as part of the normal menu sexual lexicon you know it's it's sex the sexicon i think you need to go to jail I think you've been at liberty for too long. You know, the idea that what you get is a product of what you command to be done. Troubling. Ethically troubling.

The thing is that this is already happening. So there is, the right wing group raised the colours who took responsibility. There's actually like three different rays of the colours. we're all beefing, but this group took partial responsibility for some of the flag raising that happened last summer. They jumped on the back of another group, one of those, group chances. But one of their most prominent members has been arrested on charges of possessing indecent imagery of children.

And a lot of that content was AI generated. So already, this is not like an abstract discussion, like it's already in place. And I totally agree with you with this idea that I don't think. think every desire should be catered to at all. But the problem is I think that porn already exists, which is why I'm like, the genie's not back in the bottle. And I'm not really happy in my mind with any of these settlements of like AI's better or, you know, it will lead to more tailoring.

I think it will lead to more tailoring of like more deviant desires and more exacerbation of like these taxonomies and like you like X, Y, Z, why not add another, whatever the parallel is to a matcha syrup. That doesn't even exist. Coffee listeners don't write in, correcting me, they know. Hazel nut. Another scoop of hazelat. By the way, just talking to the matcher drinkers.

You don't like matcha most of you. You like sugar. You like syrup that they're putting in the matcha. I just want to make that clear. You're just drinking it's not healthier. You're just drinking sugar. Okay. Thank you.

Sorry, that's been bothering me. I do now appreciate a grassy taste, though. Yeah, if you like the grassy taste, I fully salute you, well done. But if you're just going to fucking blank street and you're getting your green sugar, please understand what you're actually drinking. I don't know why that bothers me so much.

I think it's fine. So I really agree with you, and that's the problem. I don't have like a set, this is better or worse, because I think the entire premise of the question is kind of cooked because the entire system is cooked because the internet allows the shortcut to, not desire even, but just like,

like you talk about. And as you've been, as you said in yourself, like you're like to this, disconnection from the embodiment. It's just a, it's a transaction. It's a, I don't know what the word is,

because it's not a desire transaction, but it's like input output, input into eyes, flesh slapping against each other, output, orgasm. And, but there's no, like, actual embodiment, like, yes, when I think of,

I haven't watched porn for ages, and part of that is, um, you know, it's interesting, It's really interesting to me monitoring when I was watching porn more. Sorry guys, I was getting TMI. I was watching porn more when I was in long-distance relationship

is when I really miss my partner and what is like shortcut. And now that I'm with him far more, there's been no, there's been zero watching. Like it's not, that gap doesn't need to be filled and that shortcut doesn't need to fill, even if he's away and I'm doing something on my own. I'm not resorting to sitting on top of the, washing machine like a 50s housewife.

Exactly. No, I take my tools with me. I'm not resorting to... The rattling toolbox. I'm not resort. Imagine coming in and you just got a giant toolbox. I'm not resorting to that shortcut of desire. And part of that is I just got so...

I guess every time I use it, it feels like a bit of my soul's being chipped away. Even if I'm not watching this, like, really degrading material. I was just like, this is so disconnected from what I actually. want and what I actually want to feel in my body and I was on this mission to connect my head and my arousal system more because I have I think one of my issues is I can disconnect those things and not feel stuff and I was like this is not helping you in any way shape or form it's producing an orgasm but at what cost at what cost is the coming and to really address this you know problem of like AI versus real the problem is the porn the problem is

the porn itself and I'm more and more as I said I'm just very like this is just a convenient part of the convenience culture the shortcut this idea that we can just have everything on tap and do we actually examine I mean lots of people examine porn right now but do we actually examine what the trade-ups are you're making for that and like you said I've noticed how when porn gets in my road I've learned some good tricks from Paul gay porn teaches a lot I've learned some great tricks but elbows like this I asked the other day like why do people what do people get from a titty job

just do anything I think what a cumbersome thing I think that if we're really going to get into like what is the appeal of a titty job is that I don't think it is like there are obviously

better ways to get the physical stimulation but it is the sort of like this is the erotic objects and I just want to be in the mix. That's a motorboat, though, which also is not a That's sort of what it is. It's a it's a it's a it's a peen motorboat.

But motorboat, okay, so just tie a tangent. I was thinking about motorboating as well. That is an invention by American teen movies. I don't think motorboating. I think it's, I think with many of motorboats, it becomes, maybe it's a dominatrix thing, but it's definitely like the idea of the all-consuming breast. It's very childlike to want to be.

be motivated. That is a Freudian, that's Freudian shit. I think it is Freudian shit, but like, I think a lot of sex is Freudian shit. Yeah, but there's Freudian shit and there's Freudian shit, you know? Like, the titty, the titty job is a classic thing of we were so focused on whether we could, we didn't stop to think whether we should. Like, who's actually enjoying tith's job? It's like, uh-uh, eh, even if your tits are big enough, mazzled off to you, but like it's like uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-nothing's happening maybe the peans like hit in the chin

maybe it's not like it's not it's just not a functional thing it's just very awkward in a way that's not like fun awkward I think that I mean look I think the same I know my mom's

this podcast Jade log off now after the trick of warning at the beginning can we have a like if either one of our parents is listening to this, please stop.

This is not an episode for you. This is not for you. I mean, I think that maybe you are making a mistake here, which is that I think that the titty job as it is like a pornified thing. Like this is part of the sexicon. This is part of the menu. This is part of the standardized acts and you should be doing it because porn is telling it's hot.

That's obviously bad. But I think you sort of saying, well, where's the appeal for it because it's not even that good at um sort of like physically stimulating the pain and then like you know if you're the woman and you're just you know you're kneel in there you're lying there and you're just getting sort of like battered in the chin if if you're lucky you're getting battered in the chin um I think that it's a mistake to think about like sex purely in terms of almost like the most efficient route to orgasm because there is world in which could be the tick shop, it could be anything, right?

Like it's sort of like attention paid to a particular part of the body where it's not your most efficient route to orgasm, but it's the eroticism is like, I'm obsessed with this part or I like you being obsessed with this part. I like the effect that this part has on you and that's part of sex. So I think in a way kill the convenience spot inside your own brain. But I'm not thinking about orgasm because I'm thinking purely about that. is a very part driven. So it's not bringing, like I can think, I can, okay, there's plenty of sex acts where you are lazered in on an aspect of the body, but the other person is not reduced just

to that part, right? I'd say, look, it's never, I don't like, you know, it's not, I don't like it. Like, it's, there's, it's not for me, but I suppose I'm just, I want to, I want to, I want to, You know, this podcast is for lovers of the Titi Job, haters of the Titi Job. I don't, I'm not even like, I don't even hate it. It just amuses me and I think it is one of those things of like downstream from porn culture where it just becomes a part.

And another thing in porn culture is like the lack of sort of like kissing or it's just the sex act, which can be hot at times like, fuck, we're just going to get down to it. But it's also a bit pretty woman, you know, where she's like, no kiss soon. Can I say something wildly pretentious? Yeah. Isn't it interesting how whenever it's about something touching the penis, job is appended to it? Oh. This is Marxist feminism for you.

It's not even touching the penis, though, because there's also rim jobs. Okay, the man. The man. It's job. Does rim job apply just to... men's butts getting out. Yeah, because it's eating ass if it's a woman's. What the fuck? To be fair, I call it eating ass across the board, but you're right, Rim job is most of the associated with gay eating ass,

even though I think the terms are now more synonymous, but originally, I believe. What's that about, why is it a job? Why is it a job? Why? It's an interesting. People, can you write in, Can someone who's doing studies on pornography and the lexicon, the sexicon, please give us their best analysis?

I have read ethnographies. Okay. Of, I have read ethnographies. End of sentence. There is a book about, like, sex amongst working class, Bengali women, a study done, I think, in the 90s, called negotiating intimacies, where one of the things that the researcher picked up is that so often the women referred to sex as work. So they'd be like, you know, so we'd do this, da-da-da-da. I'd finish the work and then I would do this. That's fascinating. I was just thinking about it.

Sometimes it obviously, I don't think it, no, it doesn't feel like work, but sometimes you're like, I do, I should do this. I need to do this as a connection. I need to get in the mood for connection. So I think this is the thing, right, which is if we're thinking about the sort of instrumentalisation of sex in some way, so you can think of porn as being a particularly extreme kind of instrumentalisation, not necessarily because the acts being depicted are extreme, but it's so like these people are having sex in this particular way because it looks this way on camera,

it's being shot this way in camera because it's distributed in this way, it's distributed in this way so that it's sort of like for the ease of the goon. Do you know what I mean? So like all these things have this like very much instrumentalised value. And that's that's one aspect of it.

But you can think about the instrumental value of sex in relationships in terms of this is for connection. This is for love. This is to sort of like prevent the buildup of like tension and resentment. This is because emotionally you make it really different. for me if I don't. This is because I feel I've got the leeway to make demands of you

if this aspect is covered. I'm doing this because I'm scared of losing you. I'm scared of your attention or your desire being directed elsewhere. And then there's the sort of like all of these things can I guess get described as like maintenance sex, which is it's sex which is being motivated by an eye on the overall health of the relationship rather than the sort of pleasure in the moment. And I suppose that's an interesting thing is that like we so often talk about sex and like the meaning of sex in the context of thinking about porn or thinking about casual sex. But the meaning of sex when there is a pattern or like an established bond and how that meaning varies from like time to time or like phases of the relationship that you're in,

I think is really important and kind of like unattended to. I think desire is something that still is very mysterious to me and I'm really scared of losing it out of the blue and not because I don't always understand it and I'm always so relieved when my body's responding in a way where I'm like, oh, this is like, you know, having sex. I'm like, oh, wow, I came a lot quick and then I thought it would like, oh, wow, I... And sometimes when I feel that, I'm like, floor it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm like, floored. Or I'm like, oh, wow, like, I'll start kissing someone. And I'll be like, I'm surprised at the fountain that's going on, you know? Like, I'm pleasantly surprised because in the past, there have been... I remember one relationship I was in, like, early on, where my desire, like, switched off, you know, several months into a relationship.

never came back in like a real way. I couldn't, and my partner could feel that. And I'm really scared of having things. I don't understand what was behind that. And I'm sure it was some sort of disconnection between like head and heart. But I've not, I'm trying to explore those things more and like link those up. But it's, you know, sometimes I can be having sex and like, not that, not that much, but like my head will go out of it.

It's happened very rarely in, you know, recent, recent years. But I say recent years. In conversations, whatever, it's happening rare and rarer. And then my partner can sense it. You can sense when someone's not in it or they're stressed or they're somewhere else. And then, but I'm so relieved constantly by every time my desire is there and showing up

and it's more active than ever. And that's something in this relationship, I'm both really, I really treasure and I'm really scared of losing. Like, what if one day it just goes away and I don't know what's happening? So I feel like something to do with sex therapy would be useful at some point. So like, speaking of someone who's eight years into a relationship,

Like it changes and the worst thing you can do is take any point in time and understand that as being fixed, right? Or like this is the norm and like if we recreate those conditions, then the desire will return in the same way. And you can think about that in terms of like the phases of a relationship that what sex does at the beginning is that it's sort of like, you know, in this like chemically explosive way creates the bond. And then it stops doing that and you're like, ah, what do I want this less? And it's like, well, because actually sex is serving a different purpose. And that becomes kind of complex because it's many things at once. It's sort of my sexual expression as an individual, right? Which, because we're in a relationship together, that happens with you.

So like here we are in this realm of negotiation. It's an expression of love, right? Like it's creating room for play existing in a relationship which is increasingly, because you've been together for longer, dominated by obligation and practical necessity. Like all of these things are in it, and I think that it can be really difficult and knotty at times. And I think that the best thing that's ever happened for me and my partner

is to understand that the beginning can never come back, but other things fucking can. And once you have an understanding of your own desire, and your desire does not have to be the same, right? Like, you know, he's a red blood of the Yorkshire man. Like, but as in like, you know, I think that is a lot less contextually and emotionally dependent than mine is. Same. Yeah, and that's fucking fine.

Like, you know, maybe it is like we have different levels of testosterone and this is what that means. And that's fine. But like, for me, nothing is going to happen unless I feel. I feel I'm in love with you. And so that thing of like, how do I feel like I'm in love with you is like, we've worked certain things out. Like we understand better how to create an environment

where that feeling can like organically rise to the surface and then the rest can follow. And I think coming back to porn and I suppose the thing about like even if you take women out of it or real people out of it, like what are the children? challenges that it presents for us ethically, politically, but also sexually, I think porn encourages us to think about taste as being fixed. And I think that that's bad for relationships. And I do think that when it comes down to like the harm part and I'm going to piss people off and I know I'm going

to piss people off, but why are you booing me? I'm right. This is a problem with a lot of the sex workers' rights advocacy and political space that I've seen, which is it's not that I disagree with the demand for self-organisation and decriminalisation in the interest of worker safety. I completely agree with those things. But there is this thing which often gets said, which is, you know, if you're not a sex worker, you can't talk about this. Well, no, I am a woman.

And the condition of sex workers is intimately. linked to my condition as a woman because it always has been like because it always has been like the Madonna Hall complex is a fiction like it's the same fucking woman and I think that it comes from an essentially liberal place right like a liberal place of well like here is the realm of the private and like here is my business and here is your business and I completely dispute that I think what's private and what isn't like is actually like gradated like there's not a hard and firm line. And the things that we do and the spaces that we think are private has implications for the welfare of other people. It has implications for what kind of society you live in.

Like we're not like, or at least on this podcast, like, we're not liberal wankers who think that there is a state of separation that exists between people. And there is a problem that liberalism has made the phrase sexual morality synonymous with conservatism, restraint, anti-sex shame. And of course, of course, that has been how sexual morality has traditionally been mobilised. It's always against, right?

Against gay people, against women having reproductive and sexual rights. All of that is true. But sexual morality is also consent. Sexual morality is also what shapes and conditions are expectations of real people. Sexual morality is also, is it good for us to always get,

the things we want. And you can't just cut that off by saying, well, that's private. Like, no. I'm not into the, I only see the, I don't know as in, I must, can't talk. I, from what I've seen of like the sex work campaigns, I mostly just see arguments around the economic conditions. So I haven't actually, I can't engage with that point as much because I don't see people making that, but I'm sure that some members of the coalitions do.

I'm sure some others don't. Like, when I read Rohing Prostitutes, it wasn't arguing. there should be no sexual morality we should be allowed to do what we want. It was arguing these are the economic conditions that we have to operate under and this is why the Nordic model would worsen those for us and this is where it's coming from. So I don't see that as much. I presume that's more of an online sphere, just in the devil's avocado. As we don't have a sex worker on, I do want to say like,

we shouldn't always take the most annoying person or the person we disagree with the most as the sort of representative. No, we shouldn't. And that's not what I'm arguing for. The thing that I'm, I'm arguing for is slightly different. It's regardless of whether or not you are in conversation with a sex work, you can always, always, always talk about how the sex industry impacts the lives of those

who don't work in it. True. But it obviously also impacts the lives of those who do work in it. It does. It does always. But then there's an interesting thing. There's an interesting thing of, and I think this is a problem. and like let's attend to it as a problem,

which is what if those interests aren't always in alignment? What if the thing, which is best for you as a worker, right, serves your interest is actually not great for everyone else, right? Maybe the existence of a thriving porn industry, right? You know, let's say that, okay, actually a really good example. of this is only fans, right? Of course there are huge problems with only fans, but part of the reason why

so many performers are now behind the paywall like subscription model of only fans because they get to keep a lot more of their money. Like a lot more of their money. It's less exploitative than the tube sites. Like it is. That doesn't mean it's not exploitative. It certainly is.

But it's less exploitative than the tube sites. I would argue that Onlyfans has made it worse to be a woman on the internet. I guess but it's the same model of substack it's like these industries are symptoms of all these new micro they're not micro industries they're new platforms

these platforms are symptoms of the decline of the existing ones and the lack of like long-term security and insurance assurance that you get in a career with existing ones and obviously porn is so loaded as a space, but it's like why are there so many people going into porn? It's because these other lines of work are declining. Completely agree, but what I'm saying is that, like, that's a much broader thing, right?

That's the sort of like, what society do we live in? And fully on board. What I'm saying is that, like, in many ways, only fans is a vast improvement, right? Like, you can create content from your home. Like, the, like, conditions in the environment can be a lot safer. You keep a lot more of your money. that's why so many you know porn

porn performers are on it those things are good but I'm saying that only fans has worsened the condition of women overall and then it I think that it's a side step to be like well we have to ask these questions of society like yes we do but here is a moment here is a

I think we can do both I think we can do both like if you you can work in coordination be like okay short term I do think conditions for you as a work should be better long term were you then joining coalition with me to try and restore these other forms of work so that you don't have to use like only fans but all of this comes down to people are being pushed into forms of work like everything's content

creation which was as Patricia Nielsen argues like started by the porn industry in the first place everything's content creation what came before like only fans is a mix of YouTube Instagram visual culture and porn full stop like it's all the those things together. It was, I can't, I can't remember what only fans were starters, but I don't think it was initially a porn site was something else. It was almost like Patreon. There's so many different sites that could have been Onlyfans, it could have been Patreon. It could have been, um, what's that other one that people use? I can't

remember. There's Patreon, there's another one that's very similar. Anyway, it could have been any sort of subscription site. It just happened that everyone's going on Onlyfans for whatever reason. And that was the exacerbation of like everybody's, a star in their own home culture. That was this, like, amateur pornography was the trickle-down that came to YouTube, then it came back with only fans. So it's like this content creation model, which is also destabilized. First of all, our conception of what it means to be like successful work. It's this, what it means to be a worker at this like really fundamental

level. And everything is just like you're, it was easy to be self-employed and just file videos all the time. Well, not even easier. It's more, there's more security now. Like when I think of, this comes back down to precarity as well, which is when I'm thinking of, I wrote recently about precarity and I'm substack and I'm on sabbatical for my main job, which is very, very demanding. And I was living in London as well, which is like so extortionally expensive that you feel you have to work all the time, or at least I use as an excuse to work all the time. And now I'm, you know, my bills have gone down. I'm, my main income for the next four months is massively reduced.

It's substack and this podcast and then some other little bits because I'm focusing on. in your book stuff, I won't have time to do that. And I also need to take a break. And, you know, I think of somehow that feels, like, it's precarious, but because I have more security in that I have somewhere I can stay, like my partner's like, you don't have to pay rent here while you're still doing this. You know, there's a lot more security in it, which I didn't weirdly feel at my full-time job because I'm so used to things just closing all the time.

And there's this, I think this idea of like precarity comes into it so much, is like people feel only fans is more stable than the work they kept getting made redundant from or sacked from all these other jobs where they weren't earning enough to even live so they move into these forms of like well I myself is now like I am the worker I may as well seize back the means of production and go on on only fans only fans just an expression of that and it happens to be loaded

because it's poor and just and so I think that there's there's something really true in that and I think to to steal man my own arguments like if you had only fans, creators, organizing, and the demand would be that a share of profits be allocated for sick days or health insurance or whatever else it is, that's something which obviously has huge implications across the platform economy, right? So that's something which would have implications for Uber drivers, for delivery riders,

like whatever else you want to name. that kind of like organizational intervention the same way I'm saying well okay the sexual component of sexual content creation has implications for every other kind of person that's there it also means that your wins if you organise for them has implications

for workers across the economy right so that's the first thing that's the sort of like I agree with that and like I think that there is an argument to be made that it is, you know, stemming from a kind of anti-sex or like sex negative set of beliefs and assumptions about what sex is that I'm isolating only fans and would do the same for porn hub and whatever and not putting it in a context of other platforms like, yeah, Deliveroo, Uber, TikTok, YouTube, whatever. I think all of those are like, you know,

critiques which have legitimacy. I think what none of them answer though is the centrality like of porn to the condition of women and that the ideologies of porn have a really pernicious way of influencing

the social, sexual and political status of women and that is why for me, it's really complicated. It's not as straightforward as saying anything that's in the interest of sex workers is good for every worker because in many ways that is true. But there is this particular way in which that's not true. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I think porn is the, but again, I do really agree with that.

but I think porn is the peak of a mountain or like the top of a pyramid. Maybe it's the base of the pyramid. Actually, the base is more like that. Porn is the base of a pyramid in a digital pyramid in which online, I think, patriarchy and the degradation of women is kind of entrenched throughout the digital economics, digital social mares, everywhere you look. There's an exacerbation of ideas about what women are, what they should be, what they're useful for, what their value is.

And it's just the general dehumanization. Porn is the worst of it and I think trickles down into everything else. But it's just everywhere, what women consider themselves to be capable of and what they should do. Our imaginations are so limited by this monster of late-stage capitalism. Like you have late-stage capitalism in the physical world and you have late-stage capitalism, in the digital world. And I do think we've seen before, like online's not real.

It is real. That's the problem. It is real. And it trickles out into the rest of the world, whether we like it or not. And what you get is this walked fun house mirror of, you know, physical life.

And everything on there is like blown up and monstrous. And patriarchal values are just 10 times worse online. And they come back into real life. But if you read Reddit for half a day, and then go back into the real world, your fucking view is so pessimistic, so bleak. Every man is a demon. Every woman is like a stupid bimbo who,

same with TikTok. You go on TikTok, it's just thousands of people complaining about how they hate men or like I used to do. My viewpoint really changes when I'm not on these platforms or thousands of men complaining about how transactional women are. Like being online makes me both a misandrous and misogynistic at the same time. It makes me a hater of other humans.

I think that we've had a really good intellectual. Yeah, I think we have two. I think we have two. And, you know, I think that your argument about the sort of, and it is the Patricia Nielsen argument, which is that it's sort of wrong to look at porn sometimes solely. You can become tunnel visioned when you look at porn through the lens of sex and actually if you look at porn through the lens of the digital economy,

you're going to find all of this connective tissue to everywhere else. And just to say, sex workers, I'll do back you in your struggles. I do, and I'll back you in struggles from rights. But I think we've got conflicting interest sometimes. I do. I do. I've said my peace. I've said my piece.

Okay, right. Now we are at I'm in big trouble. Our usual schedule dilemmas segment. At this weekend, I was singing to myself, now that it's raining more than ever, won't you send me your dilemmas? Oh my God. I was like, there's wheels going in my head.

Tell me more than ever. Won't you send me your dilemmas? We can keep that going. New team, Chi-Chal. Can you get Matt on it, please? Okay. Who wants to read out this dilemma? I'll read it so you can go first.

You love this one. I love this one. I do love this one. Let's go. But delayed gratification. Let's go. I'm taking a tantric approach to dilemma's answering. Okay.

Hey, Ashen Moyer. Thank you so much for the podcast. It gives me the feeling of having two older sisters I can rely on and listen to, which I've never had and really wished for. I'm in big trouble. Also, just to say special one, I am cutting it down for brevity. I'm in big trouble.

My boyfriend and I, me being a woman, have recently been adjusting to a big change, his new career as a corporate lawyer. The changes with him beginning his career have been known to us for a long time, something I've been very excited about for him because I know it means a lot to him. That said, the changes to our ability

to see each other or even talk has been definitely making this difficult. I also work in hospitality, so we don't have any full day, together guaranteed. We're making things work though and our communication is strong when we see each other. I love him so much. That said, I definitely have been feeling quite a bit more lonely recently. At the same time, I'm able to go back into my rich and queer social life. I imagine this is rich in terms of abundant rather than money that I had before we got together and spend more time

with my friends. Now here we fucking go. This is the shit. recently my house has acquired a new housemate for context i live in a big queer house i don't need to read the brackets um more context the new housemate is someone i had history with before my boyfriend and i got together at the start of the year she's a friend of my very close friend and when she moved to london the summer of last year we spent a lot of time together long story short she came out to me for the first time really to anyone. We ended up sleeping together. Things got awkward though and we drifted apart. It was sad to have drifted because I really liked her too, but things weren't really right. When I first heard she was moving in, I was really excited because I felt like it was a loss to have

drifted apart and it's been so great since she's joined the house. We've started spending a lot of time together, going for runs, eating dinner, watching TV. I really like her. Problem is, I think I'm still attracted to her. I can feel myself getting a bit giddy, being really aware of when our arms or legs touch when we sit on the couch. When I've had a few glasses of wine, my attraction to her screams in my head. I completely do not intend to act on this at all, but I also can't deny it. And then says something about being able to bond on the level of shared queerness, which is obviously something that she can't share with her straight boyfriend. At the same time, I love my boyfriend more than anything. I think about him, I miss him. I'm also

eager to hear about his day and plan time together. When I think of the person I trust the most, who I feel at home with, it's him. But it's true that our time together is much more high effort than it used to be. I don't blame his career for the situation, but it's also true that it's had an impact on our relationship. Also, I don't want to pursue anything with a new housemate, but my attraction to her at times is really powerful. I'm not sure what I should do. I think I want to talk to my boyfriend about these feelings, not to make him feel threatened or insecure, but because I think this is something important that is worth having a conversation about.

Also, my boyfriend does know about our history. I have no idea what I'm wanting from the conversation. I don't think I'm looking for an open relationship because I honestly don't think that it's for me. The idea of him dating other women makes me sad and insecure and again, I don't want to shit where I eat. But yeah, lots of internal conflict. I'm sure there are also unfair feelings of abandonment

and anger towards my boyfriend and the changes to our relationship recently, which I'm really trying not to encourage you or validate. What do you think with so much love, special one? Do you want me to go? Special one. Thank you for that email. You answered all your own questions in it, and we'll get onto that.

And I say this with so much love for you, because I understand, I think you are dealing with the initial thing in a very mature way in that you're like, I kind of recognise what this is. However, I'm going to put this to you, okay? Imagine your boyfriend came to you and said, by the way, I'm moving in with a person I slept with and you've got this really busy new job, so now I fancy them.

What do you think about? You'd probably lose your head. I really urge anyone who wants to have a difficult conversation to start on the process that you are yet to finish, which is, first of all, work out what this difficult conversation is really, about. You are just wanting to show that to your boyfriend to be like, I feel abandoned and I feel angry. So I fancy this person. But you're not saying the real thing underneath it, which we'll get into and I think Ash is going to really talk about. You're just saying, here's your sexual

competition and they live with me. Pay attention to me now. Or question mark, question mark, question mark. It is very normal to develop crushes or transfer feelings when you feel hurt and you don't feel like you can actually bring up because I think what's happening here as well is you're suppressing the anger and abandonment because you don't think it's a mature enough feeling to discuss or talk about. So instead you've put it into this crush on this person who is there and is giving you attention and is filling this gap where your boyfriend used to be. Dating a corporate lawyer is sort of like dating an addict. Like, it's a life-changing commitment.

My God. Especially if the corporate lawyer really leans into their workaholics of, that's crazy shit. It is something that has to be negotiated. And I don't know what you do. I don't know what your career is. I think there's something here where you're like, I can't talk about how I feel because it will disrupt this big change from and it will make me a bad person to admit that I'm

having complex feelings about the change in our relationship. You say your communication is good. it is. I feel like it's not being totally honest and you're confusing honesty with disclosing all this stuff about this crush, which is actually kind of only relevant to you working out how you really feel about this and passing to Ash. Right. Special one, you're in big trouble. You're in big trouble. You are in a messy situation. And I think that making sense of it has to start a bit earlier. Why did you accept living with this person?

Yeah, I thought I was crazy. It's, it is. It's crazy. And I think that this is a little bit of, you know, sleepwalking towards desire situation, which is you feel that there's unfinished business, there's still some like curiosity and attraction that you never really got to find out what the end of your story is. And so you sort of say yes in the spirit of like, you know, queer community and generosity and, you know, friendship that, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can live together. That was your first error, right?

Because everything that follows is a logical consequence of that, right? I do believe that, like, unless a lot of time has passed by and a lot of changes in your life, and a lot of processing, you shouldn't live with someone who you used to sleep with unless you expect to sleep with each other again. Yeah, why does being queer seem to be equated with being magically chill

and able to turn on and off desire? Like, there's not, there's not, I feel like queer circles often are like, we're, just because we're queer, we're actually so super nonchal. And that's why they're so fucking messy a lot of, the time because they confuse not being hit with like, well, we don't get jealous and we don't have desire. And it's like, you, you're all human. Guys, you're human. These things are probably going to crop up. It's a way of seeing problems as a result of arbitrary boundaries and arbitrary

distinctions. And I totally see how that comes from like a critique of heteronormativity. I really do. But you know what? Sometimes boundaries and distinctions keep your guts in. Yeah. Right. Like sometimes like they serve an important role. And in things. this case, they really would have served an important role. Like they would have. And so look, there's no, you can't turn back the clock now. You guys live together. But I do think that if you continue on this path, I think you're probably going to cheat, not because you're a bad person, but because all of the incentives align in this way. You've, you've drawn a line special one between your boyfriend and this other.

aspect of your life. Straight, corpo, lawyer, lives on the other side of London over here, rich queer life, identity, fulfillment, authenticity, possibility on the other side. And your new housemate becomes the embodiment of all of that.

Like, I think Moy is right. I think that there is a really important component here about how you really feel about the kind of life you can share with your boyfriend. And so this is different than how do you feel about him as a person? And I think that's why, look, if someone tells me they love their partner once in a dilemma, I'm like, yeah, you know, you love your partner. When it's like 50 times and it's peppered throughout,

that's telling me that there's something that you're scared of attending to or looking at. And I think that it's maybe what is our shared life together? and that's why there's such a distinction between, you know, queer life here, you know, straight corporal lawyer life over there because I think you're questioning whether or not that's what you really want. There doesn't have to be a big distinction between your friends, your friends, new partners. They're at Fire Island. They're at all the raves.

They're just as mental. Who do you think is funding these raves? Yeah, you can be a, you can be a, you can be a corporate lawyer. It's not the queer house shares funded these. I also know straight people who would have, their beaks in queer culture. Like, sorry, but Darren Christ sort of ate when he was like, well, queerness could also be a bit of a mindset.

Like, you can pull this guy in. And there is, as Ash says, there's a separation element where maybe you're unwilling to want him to be part of like your life fully or be part of his life fully because of what you think that would mean. But why can't there be these worlds coming together occasionally? I think that you. have to set some boundaries. I think that you probably need to initiate a conversation with your partner,

where you do talk about the kind of uncertainties and like, you know, that feeling of abandonment. But you're also going to have to fess up to this crush, not because you're saying here's your competition, but you need to say and here's what I'm doing about it. Like, that is going to help create a bit of a boundary for you, which is you have articulated an obligation towards someone else not to cross the line.

Whereas, you know, when you're, when you're in a situation where there's this like ambiguous friendship and there's a lot of proximity, you can tell yourself that the line is that we've not kissed. You can tell yourself that the line is you haven't had sex, but if in every other regard you're playing out a relationship together, that is a line that's crossed. I think you should talk to your boyfriend

and then if you decide you want to commit to him I think you should talk about moving in together he's a corporal lawyer now I think maybe you should move out but you should never have let this person move in with you special one I love you learn from this in the words of Tyrava The way special one is talking

it's like they didn't have a choice in they're moving in which really confuses me where's the democracy in the square household yeah did you raise like actually I think it's kind of weird because me and this person had a thing Yeah. And there's also the power,

there's a, I think there's also a power element that you're really enjoying, which is like, this person came out to you. You were their first queer sexual experience full shenanagan, you know?

Like, there's, there's a real element of like, this person definitely has a thing for me. So I can also have a thing for them ongoing. That makes, maybe makes you feel more secure than the fact your boyfriend

is now distracted and with his new job. The other thing you can do, I mean, what I will say, special one is that I ran this past the housemates. Ooh. Last night.

So we've got a temporary housemate at the moment. Oh my God. Temporary housemate. Where's the other one on? Oh no, it's still there. Still there. It's temporary housemates in the spare room. Ah.

Temporary housemate says, I think that you need to break up with your boyfriend because, uh, like, because this person is a sort of, like, you've already crossed a line. You're probably going to cross the line. Like, you should probably break up with your boyfriend. I disagreed with that. I totally disagree with that. temporary housemate, get lost. Husband said something so crazy, though.

What did husband say? Husband said, cheat, because he's a corporate lawyer, he's going to. No, that's just not true. This is why I do the podcast and my partner doesn't. I wonder sometimes if we should have a day where, like, bring husband to work day and we just get them to talk about shit with their voices disguised. You know, like he's like fucking steak knife or something. He's like through the vocal modulator.

I can't believe you just compared your husband to state this. One of the biggest snitches of all time. He's going to be fuming when he hears this. He doesn't listen to this podcast. It's fine. Oh, it's fine. Let's just compare him to like one of the biggest touts ever. Oh my God.

That's really besmirch the reputation. I don't think you should break up with a boyfriend immediately. I think you should have a conversation. No. I'm just, I'm telling you what the household thinks. Yeah. I think the household was wrong and I don't think that added anything. I didn't ask my household because I don't care what they think.

But do you think you should move out, whether it's with your boyfriend or someone else, if you do not want to cheat. If you do end up, stay living there, shag your house, and like another dilemma will come in. A new dilemma for us. Feed the machine. Feed the machine. That's the thing is that we don't want anyone to improve their lives. We need you.

No, I love it when you improve your lives and you send emails. I love it. and you make a crazy decision and you tell us about it. We've had some nice emails and special ones. There was a special one recently. They said we could read it out. She said we could read out, but I won't, but she gave an update, and she said that thank you very much for advice,

and that it really helped. So we love that you. I can't even remember what the advice was that we gave in that situation. It was to get the bottom surgery. She said we could read this out, by the way, guys. And she said her life has really changed for the better as a result. And thank you. That's nice to know.

It's nice to know. Right, shall we Let's go Cut the shit dead Right, thank you Thank you special ones We love you We appreciate you

We like reading your comments And if you want to Write and subscribe On any of these platforms That allow you to stream the podcast That also boosts it And tell a friend Send it to a friend

We want a full fucking house For our Christmas shows Tell a friend But don't tell our moms To listen to the ones No Oh my god My boyfriend's parents

We see it like Oh we might give it listen and he went, don't do that. All right. Don't. On that note. Bye. Bye.