If I Speak - 30: Unbothered, moisturised, happy – and ready for a relationship?

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Are you sitting comfortably? Because Moya has come to a big realisation – and some new rules on dating etiquette. Plus, a whole a new batch of your Missed Connections! Get in touch if you recognise any of these objects of our affection. Email your missed connections and dilemmas to [e-mail] Music by Matt Huxley.

Good morning, or afternoon, or night, or whenever you are listening to this hello this is if i speak i'm moya lathu mclean i'm joined as always as ever who are you i don't know anymore but my government name is ash sarka that's actually not your government name it's actually not my government name i don't know why i was lying my government name is ashna no don't tell them your government name you made the first error never tell them your government name they know it's on wikipedia they know some people might not have looked it up though never give away your government name freely that's a the thing is is that i don't mind being called it and like you know there are definitely times where sometimes like you know people on the internet trying to wind me up would be like ashna i'm like yeah that is my name it's not about not being a not wanting to be called your

government name it's that names have power you never read earthsea names have huge amounts of power i actually haven't read earthsea well it's a children's book so it takes five minutes but and you'll probably enjoy there was a bit in earthsea when i got to like page 200 when i knew exactly what the ending was going to be and I texted someone being like I'm just saying this now this is what I think the ending's going to be and they were like do you not do you not get tired of like always having to be ahead of what's actually happening and just enjoying the book I was like no the greatest pleasure in this world is figuring out the twist ending but then I thought about it I was like maybe I should live in the moment a bit more no I've you know what? I've got the exact same thing. I'm like the greatest pleasure in the world is being right.

Yeah. It's like, what about like conviviality or like, you know, any other kind of pleasure or just like kind of enjoying the moment. It's like, nah, being right. And that's why we started a podcast. Moya, what's your middle name? I'm just interested. I don't have one.

And even if I did, I wouldn't tell you after what I just said. I do not have a middle name. I've got two surnames. I don't need a middle name. That'd be greedy. That would be, I don't I do not have a middle name I've got two surnames I don't need a middle name that'd be greedy that would be um yeah I don't know extravagant extravagant too much people already think I'm really pushed because I have a double-barreled surname but it's actually because my I'm born out of wedlock I'm a bastard so that's why a bastard a bastard so I have two surnames and also because frankly i know that you don't want kids but like if you had kids you then have to be like who's getting the surname because my

surname's unique there's no other loathean mcclain's because it's the amalgamation of my father and my mother and if i were like if i'm with just like joe blogs do you think we're gonna give the kids the blogs names uh no we're carrying on my legacy so i don't want kids but i have made my position on this really really clear to my partner which is like they're getting my fucking surname yeah right they are they are getting my surname and there are two reasons for this one is because if i've got to carry that sucker for nine months it's getting my fucking name. Like, I'm sorry. And two is that like, you know, obviously like genetics is a real like, you know, who knows how it's going to turn out. Because like, you know, my partner's white British.

I'm like, that thing's going to come out, you know, looking like a nice iced latte on a summer day. And I'm going to need to like boost its ethnic points any way I can. So it's going to be called Abduldul sarkar regardless of gender okay you're getting your surname getting your surname yeah i think also if you're the alpha then i think you should just assert whoever's the alpha the surname they get the surname of that that kid or you pick your you have two kids and you pick your favorite and they get your surname. And that's a very healthy way to do it. I don't want to expose my friend's name on this podcast

because they're not a public figure, but she's married a guy whose surname is the same as her mother's maiden name, which is included in her name. So let me just think of like um some alternatives it's like she's called lucy francis baker francis because they've put the names together so it would be like lucy francis squared or lucy francis francis i would have just gone back to i would have i would just taken on the maiden name and been like, great.

That's, that's the higher power saying you can have your mother's maiden name back and carry on that lineage. Lineage. That's my surname. They live in a country where it's quite difficult to legally change your name. So she's keeping the name, but because his name is in it anyway,

it's fine. And then like with the kids, it's like, well, the name's already there yeah i thought they were really really missing a trick by not being like lucy francis squared that would be very original but also a nightmare when you're doing past performance anyway as a hyphenated person they don't like hyphens but we've been rambling we need to get on with business ash and

that business is quick fire questions it is quick fire questions i have three of them and the first one is what's the last thing that made you full-on properly belly laugh myself what did you do i okay i haven't told this story on the podcast yet and i don't know how well it will go over on the airwaves. But it always makes me laugh. It's usually something stupid I've done that I'm barely laughing at. Okay, so this story. Have you ever had a moment when you're just like, I'm pathetic.

I'm so pathetic. Yes, on a daily basis. Okay, well, this was a moment when I was about 60. And I was, I liked uh fondant icing I loved fondant icing right and I loved just eating it and one of my cousins got married and they had fondant icing on the cake amazing chocolate cake with fondant icing but there was loads of leftover fondant icing so my aunt bought me up a bag of fondant icing just to eat so it was a known it was a known um affliction i was a little hog like i loved sugar when i was younger i was like 16 though i was a teenager like i was too i was too old to be eating fondant icing with

my hands out of a bag well so i was eating this fondant icing for days and my mum was like stop doing this cease and desist with eating this fondant icing you are getting to like really it's gonna rot your teeth and it's gonna ruin your skin um and she's also a mum of a certain age so there definitely were some sort of like weight concerns that were mixed in with it but um so i was eating this fondant icing and i was feeling not very i was feeling queasy but i couldn't stop and she just took the fondant icing off me and threw it in the bin and i started crying oh my god so i was 16 and crying about this fondant icing. So then I go upstairs, I'm storming upstairs,

and my little sister comes upstairs to try and comfort me about the fondant icing. And she's like, don't cry. How embarrassing, by the way, to be comforted by your little sister at the age of 16 when you're crying because your mum's thrown away the fondant icing i'm so i'm crying and she holds out a tissue the tissue in my deary state is the same color did you try and eat it I leaned forward with our hands

and just tried to bite it like a feral animal and my sister just looks at me and gives me like the biggest look of pity i've ever seen on anyone and goes oh no and that's the last thing i thought of that made me cry with laughter and the worst thing about that story is i did go and get the fondant icing out the bin oh my god you're like a little goat i was like an i was an animal for

sugar and this just if you're a parent listening this is what sugar does to your kids they will get so feral that they take the icing off the bin to get their new fix um weirdly my sweet tooth is kind of gone i mean i still have one and i still like you know brownie at the weekends but i can if i eat too much sugar now i do feel immediately sick like if i have a sticky toffee pudding and it's too over sugary, I can really feel it and I don't like it anymore. So I guess your palate changes. I just think that's part of getting older.

Like I remember the amount of sugar that I could eat as a teenager. And like it makes me feel ill thinking about it. But at the time I was like, yeah, great. I see a pack of fizzy laces. Anyway, sorry, go on. Next question. Describe your favourite pair of shoes that you own. Oh, fuck.

Next question. Describe your favourite pair of shoes that you own. Oh, fuck. Oh, it's hard because it's not the ones I wear every day. I'm not really a shoe person. My favourite pair of shoes are probably a pair of crocodile fake leather because I got them from some awful fast fashion site. Green sort of patent colour boots and i fucking love these boots i love these boots they're very fun to clink around about but i don't wear them every day

everyday shoes they were just like my my flat doc martins or my trainers as we're moving into fall as the americans call it the boots are coming out more i did just buy amazing pair of boots on vintage anyway what are your favorite shoes love boot season um okay my favorite pair of shoes probably the white chunky sandals that i wore for my wedding because they gave me a bit of height but they weren't so steep that i was like oh my god like my feet are fucking dying so yeah i can it. Yeah, I can't wear steeper heels. Served me so well. And final question. Are you in real life louder or quieter

than people would expect from listening to this podcast? I can't answer that though. Only you can tell me am I louder or quieter. It depends on the context. Depends on the context. I think probably slightly quieter in some contexts like a party context if i'm in a specific place i'll be very loud but usually i prefer to like crawl behind the decks and just not speak because i'm i get i'm bad at fucking like small talk small conversations i'm always ducking out i get real like performance

anxiety um but if i'm really comfortable that you call that performance anxiety rather than social anxiety and that is an episode for another day shall we move on what do you think wait no what do you think um i think that it's less about whether you're louder or quieter and more about the contrast between the two is a lot more extreme in real life. So you'll have these periods of just like real silence. They'll be kind of like, Moya, Moya.

And you'll be like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then like in the office, someone will say something that like pricks your ears and you'll be like,

yeah, you're right. I won't shut up. That's so true. Like, but it's like a real contrast between the two rather than like overall louder or quieter. Are you louder or quieter?

Do you think you're louder or quieter in real life? I think at the moment, quieter. I think you're quieter, but I think you're pretty much, you're more of an even keel than I am. You're not like,

you don't switch between the two binaries. Like you have- At home I'm not. Yeah. At home I'm a complete fucking maniac that's because you're comfortable it's because i'm comfortable and also because i live with two other maniacs so like everyone has to match each other's freak match my cringe match my cringe that's what we're talking about next okay yeah we are talking about that next

do you want me to go on to it i I really want to hear about this. Right. Let me just limber up. It's a big theory. And it's kind of a theory that I'm hoping you'll pick apart a bit because I know you'll have things to say about this. But it's pure it. We're going pure it. Right, let's go. Yes.

So this is the context for my big theory i had a huge realization over the weekend this is a big realization i am ready for a relationship oh my god ring the bells toll the bells um it's taken two years since my breakup but i finally feel emotionally available and i'm doing the things that you would do when you're prepared to have a relationship but i want to explain right leaving like delicious cooling pies on the windowsill to make no i'm not i'm not luring anyone in with my pies though if anyone wants some pies i did used to make pies anyway not tangent no tangents um okay how i got to this realization was being for like the first minute while willing to let go both mentally and literally of a nothing

like a nothing dating situation that doesn't really even warrant the word situation because situation makes it seem like there was a problem or like it was some sort of mess it wasn't that i just don't know what to call it uh you know it was just a one or two date thing when someone is still a stranger to you um and i liked what i saw of this person enough that i was keen to see them again but they didn't seem to feel the same. Totally fine. Which is very normal. That is what dating is. You see someone and you work out whether you want to see them again. However, the weird thing about this was their words didn't match their actions. So they were like telling me they wanted to see me. How rare for a man. How rare.

Well, how rare for a man. But I also think I want to get onto this. I want to talk about how it's, I think this is an all gender problem, but I think for men particularly that I encounter, this is, you know, quite sharp. But yeah, so their words didn't match their actions. They were telling me they wanted to see me, but I was just like, you don't, I could feel it. And it wasn't like an anxious thing. It was like, no, I know you don't. Cause you're not actually setting up a time to see me. It's you're making it very complicated. So the actions were loudly saying the opposite. And instead of being mad at them on, you know, or trying to hang on to hope, I was just like, okay, well, cool. If you want to see me, you can, it's really simple. And if not,

that's fine. Let's just like leave it. And I didn't, I didn't say it like that. I just said it like, you want to see me, you can see me. If not, have a good weekend like that kind of vibe and it really was fine um you know that's how i realized i'm ready for a relationship because i was communicating not only openly and healthily but i also didn't want to give energy to like a confusing situation um but i also wasn't angry with them you know after the initial ego pricking sting of rejection had passed me by then i wasn't angry because i was just like i don't know this person uh but i communicated with them and i said if you want this you can do this and if you don't that's also cool and i guess that means i'm either or crucially it's a

crucial it's either or it's not like oh there's some like a middle space of ambiguity that we can be in to see what it develops into it's like no there's one or the other yeah and it is one or the other and i was like oh shit i guess i'm emotionally available once more because i i think it's those two things of like i wasn't angry at them beyond like being like why are they being a bit confusing i was like actually this doesn't matter i don't know them why they're like i wasn't angry at them and i was also clear with them uh in a way that maybe in the past i just wouldn't have communicated i'd have just waited around and been confused and blah blah blah but i set out very clearly what would need to happen if we were going to see each other again. And it didn't happen. And that's okay. That's okay.

But this is where my big theory comes in. Okay. That's context. Because even though I'm ultimately, I think, ready to once again enter a serious committed relationship, don't line up all at once. Okay, everyone. I'm not dating with this outcome being like the only one I'll entertain and I've thought about this quite a lot um I'm not going to every situation thinking I have to know instantly this is my boo for life like all that if they if I can't tell that if I don't instantly get that thing that they call the spark and I don't mean just initial attraction I mean this what people would be like I was head over heels from the day I met them. I'm not going to duck out immediately if I don't get that. Because how do you even know that? I think feeling that from a day one is probably not

a healthy sign. Instead, I've come up with a checklist of three things I just want to check in with after a date, which is, did I laugh? Did I feel comfortable? Am I interested in this person and want to see them again? And if it's a tick for all three, then yeah, I want to see them again. And I haven't always felt like this, but I realized that I was getting so attached to these specific outcomes that was making me invest way too much in people that I did not know at all. And when I say an outcome, I mean like, when you go on a date with one person and you suddenly start imagining like, oh, I would love to go and do this thing with them or this thing with them, or like, I can see us doing this.

So that's the, it's the loss of that outcome that's making you mad and fixated. So for example, I don't know, the vision of you and someone strolling around the National Portrait Gallery madly in love rather than the reality, which is you just went for one drink with someone in a nice pub and, you know a little bit but you don't you don't actually know them um and they've you know they've just exited your life after that like sort of one or two interactions so this led me and my friend to our big theory which is i know this is taking a long time to get to but i think it's all important context okay uh so i was talking to my best mate and we've been going on dates with guys and we've

been liking them enough to see them again with our checklist even if we don't know whether this is a long-term thing yet and we're both dating with you know the idea that okay i would actually be ready for a long-term thing when it comes along but i'm not going to assume that it's a yes or no from the first date because who knows that after one or two dates and i'm sure people being like i did i did i don't think you're well i did i did but we all know i'm not well but no but this is what i mean i bet when you talk about this long-term thing it's like did they have the criteria that you initially ticked off and then you keep going and it becomes that long-term we'll discuss we'll discuss we'll discuss that who does but all these guys that we've been going

on these dates with where they've ticked the kind of checklist of like, did I laugh? Did I feel comfortable? Am I interested and want to see them again? Have been saying, yeah, let's do this again. And then just like disappearing into the ether. And we were quite confused

because we were pretty sure that both parties in the various dates we've been going on, like liked each other enough to see each other again and that we weren't going to immediately write them off for just for not like straight away being the one in capitals so obviously even though people are different yada yada yada we couldn't understand the divergence between their words and actions and our mad theory that we came up with was neither could they because i think these people a lot of people are actually bigger fantasists than us,

which is a striking thing to say. Bigger fantasists because they have a specific outcome or fantasy in their mind. And even if we ticked all three immediate boxes on my list, not theirs, but did we make them laugh? Were they comfortable? Were they interested and did in theory want to see us again? Then if we didn't match up to a vague like wifey ideal they might not even be aware they

have then they'll be like for some reason i'm just gonna ghost i'm just gonna leave i'm just gonna whatever but they wouldn't even be conscious of that process taking place which is why um you know there's people i've been out with who have been saying all this stuff like no i really want to see you again and then just sort of like disappearing because they're not conscious of what's going on. And I think there's a disconnect lots of men have. And I'm saying men because that's who I collect romantic data on, but this can apply at large, which is they think they want a relationship. They think they want slash love, you know, but when you quiz them of what that is and what they want, they've got no idea what that relationship would

look like or the qualities of a person that they might want to build that relationship with they're just kind of like i'll know when i know and i used to think i used to apply to myself the old i'll know when i know thinking it's enough but it's not enough when you've got all these other things at play that make you i don't know attracted to unavailable people or interested in people who are like really critical of you and that's what sparks you off and you know sends those sort of like patterns of recognition that you mistake for chemistry or whatever you can have chemistry with a wall if you're talkative enough and like nice enough um but now i know that you know if to build a committed relationship at

the very basic level two qualities i need a person to have is to be consistent and show up that's like the bare minimum and these are the foundations that I prize and absolutely need if I'm going to even develop an emotional connection and I only discovered this through going on dates with people or being involved with people who didn't have these and I was always like why can't I develop feelings them it's like because they weren't doing these things and I've got easier like being able to just be like okay this isn't working let's leave it so the too long didn't read big theory is lots of people are dating for wifey gender neutral um and reject anyone they don't have this instant wifey connection with but they don't really know what this wifey entails or what

they want from a relationship and my final bit of evidence for this is me moi as always exhibit a exhibit a um exhibit m exhibit m nice one but last year for example i went on a few dates with someone who was really open and secure and if i was like looking now i'd be like they are perfect like they're amazing um but i ghosted them because i was both emotionally mature avoidant and not ready for what they wanted, which was like a more committed, serious relationship. And I remember thinking at the time, oh, I just didn't feel it without having any idea of what it was or what I actually wanted. But now I've thought about them quite a lot, not in a way to get back in touch because I think they're the kind of person where it's like, you know, you've blown it. You've shown that you're not like that kind of you're not you're not you're not able to have a relationship with me

but I thought about them quite a lot because I think they're a good example of me letting blessings pass me by um and now I think I rejected them because they were secure and open about looking for a committed relationship which made me self-select myself out of the running even though they didn't put any pressure on me which I guess is the point of dating anyway thoughts feelings feedback okay so the first thing is that I think you're totally right in the sense that when you are dating for a relationship it's an either or right and you have to put this thing that you're pursuing which is a relationship or love or something which is more long-term and committed above the person that's in front of you because people get so sucked into the person that's in front of them and if they're pulling back like oh well I need to feel chosen by you or like what if I convince you and like

like you know what if you're the person who who I have all these things with it then actually blinds you and like blocks your access to this thing that you want which is like a relationship or love or commitment because you get so like dragged into the specifics with this person so obviously a committed relationship a lot of it is about negotiation of various forms right negotiating time negotiating domestic labor negotiating money negotiating different styles of communication that's a big part of being in a committed relationship but that period before you are in a relationship is too early for negotiations right it's just too early for negotiations and so if you feel you have to haggle in any way and haggling people are very self-deluding about what is and what isn't haggling. And I say this

from someone who has been self-deluding and from someone who is still around self-deluders. People are like, no, no, no. I just want to have a conversation to like see what they're really thinking. I'm like, nope, you're haggling. You're like, you don't actually need a conversation. You don't actually need an explanation because you already know that this person isn't giving you this thing that you want, which is a pathway to commitment. And that's enough. That is enough. So I think you're completely right in that sense. I think that you are also right to think about this gap between what someone is saying and what it is they're doing. Because we actually spoke about this yesterday in the office, which is a friend of mine

says of her husband, and it's just such a beautiful way to put it, there's very little of a gap between what he thinks, what he says, and what he does, which is, I think, just such a beautiful way to describe someone's integrity and self-knowledge and steadiness in who they are I was just like my god you really did study English literature so beautiful um and and when she said that it gave me a model for thinking about myself and thinking about the people around me um and I've got a friend who is a heterosexual man out there dating and And, you know, he often says to me like, oh, I want what you have. I want this like partnership where like the two of you are like building this life together and you're like intellectual partners and you've got a shared sense of mission in the world and, you know, you support each other and da da like okay yeah you say you want that um and I believe you but

like everything that you're doing is completely at odds with that like you're going for the same kind of woman often very very troubled often um very very conventionally attractive and worried that that's all that she has to offer. So she comes like charging in with all the sexual energy, which makes you feel very high status and validated as a man. But you can also tell that there's like a real insecurity there and you don't think of her as your equal and you don't have respect for her, quite frankly. And part of that is like, you also don't have respect for yourself. So you want that validation and she wants this validation from you. And you are unable to form this relationship of equals that you say that you want. Like you're just, you are completely unable to do it,

but you keep on doing it. So like what you're saying and what you're doing completely at odds and what you're thinking deep down about how you feel about yourself and why it is you need these women who like again fit like a very very conventional model to be like abasing themselves for you again completely at odds with like what you're saying you want um and i think it's really important to bear all these things in mind not just in terms of how you interpret other people but how you interpret yourself i think there's a massive part of dating. Where I guess I think I disagree is that this idea that people, you know, have this really fixed idea of like wanting a wifey, whatever that wifey is, and it's about the characteristics

that the other person has in a way that's like kind of arbitrary um I think that context really matters here um because all of the significant relationships that I've had um that you would either give the name relationship to in the moment or in hindsight have come from some kind of friendship or shared context first. And I felt things very, very strongly for these people before we ever kissed or ever went on a date. Like I felt things very, very strongly for them. And it was never surprising to me that we ended up in some kind of longer term relationship even if that relationship wasn't wasn't good and actually the one relationship where I go I actually have regrets about this like I have regrets that we were together was one where like I didn't necessarily

feel that strongly about him at the start but made me laugh and made me feel comfortable and you know was consistent enough and actually fucking like dragged me through like the situationship obstacle course like for a really long time and I emerged from that feeling quite low because I also wasn't in love so I guess I kind of I kind of think the opposite um and I suppose the last thing that like I'll end on is that like I asked my my partner if you traveled back in time and you met yourself just after our first date and you said hey that's the person you're going to marry um what what would like younger you have thought and like he considered it for a second and he was like young me would have said why on earth are you using the powers of time travel for this like are there not more important things and they never never got like a better

answer than such a cop-out answer for him it wasn't a cop-out he like really strongly felt that he was like I would want to know like is Jeremy Corbyn prime minister in this future and if not what were the mistakes and how could we learn from them change the media I think would be the answer to that well I mean I think I think you've actually highlighted a useful difference in why in my theory that I should specify which is I date from dating apps and i think you date from real life whereas uh there's no men in real life that i want to date no they're all taken they're all taken all the good ones were taken they were snapped up in like 2017 2019 and the dregs that left around me are truly uh bottom barrel but look i think that like

what what you're saying is like a good rule of thumb as well but i just wouldn't miss you know life is about contradiction where but like you know you do have to hold these like contradictory things like together at the same time all the time and like one is yes people aren't always the best authorities on their own drives and impulses and then the other is that like sometimes when you feel things really strongly um you've got to follow that i suppose like i the question i would ask you isn't really about these guys and it's more about you which is how honest do you think you are with yourself when you're dating what depends on what what what like what you ask me immediately going um i cannot speak english i'm sorry okay what what specifically when we're talking about honesty which which area do you mean

are you honest about what's driving you so like i've got i've got some friends where i go like ah when you feel things strongly you're actually bad at identifying what it is and you're the first act of deceit isn't from the guy it's you to yourself about what's going on so this was what led to my revelation that I was I want a relationship at some point and I'm not that doesn't mean that I'm going to just settle for the first person or try and just date someone and be like you have to be the love of my life you're going to be my boyfriend but it means that ultimately now I'm no longer dating just for the sake of dating or going out it's like when I date I'm looking at

this person being like, is this someone that I want to see again with the potential for a long-term commitment? That was in my head. And I realized that I had to be honest about this with myself because I couldn't understand, one, why I was so wedded to an outcome with like a person that I went out with recently

just a couple of times. And I was like, as I said, I got like, my ego was pricked by the rejection. I was like, why does this bother you? Because I did realize on the other hand, I was like, I said I got like my ego was pricked by the rejection I was like why does this bother you because I did I did realize on the other hand I was like you don't know this person um like it's it's so fine they they showed you very early that they weren't uh interested in the same way or for whatever reason that you know there's just a block there doesn't matter what they say so why were you you know more bothered about this I was like oh because

I am sizing these people up for long-term options and that made it much easier to let go of like this person as you say you know what you said about the being wedded to like this person being the person I was like okay it's not about this person it's about what I want from dating and I was like okay cool well this person obviously is not the person I'm going to do that with because they're not interested in a long-term connection and they're not interested in even another connection you know seeing me again so that was that was like then I could detach from them being the specific fixed outcome point and instead be honest with myself and being honest with myself was like great because a lot of the time I'm very you know like being single like

if I'm single for the rest of my life it's fine and it will be fine but that doesn't mean that I'm not ready for a relationship if one comes along and I had to be really honest about that because some of my friends were like oh it's really taboo to say that you want a relationship I'm kind of like is it I don't know if it is taboo to say you want a relationship but I know vulnerability feels taboo maybe I definitely felt like if it if it wasn't one of my one of my best mates um I think that I would have stayed in a very self-deluding space in my 20s um and that self-deluding space was I don't want a relationship I'm not not looking for love. Like what I want is like, you know, maximum autonomy and freedom, which like I wanted like sometimes, but actually like I did quite

significantly move to a place where I was like, no, I want a relationship. Like I want a relationship and I want a love. And the fact that like I was dancing this dance of two people saying to get saying to each other uh yeah no I just want to keep it casual but only one of them means it um like you know that that was self-deluding and if it if it wasn't for my friend who who very much is the person who like keeps me in touch with like the reality of my emotions and vulnerabilities in a way where like I derive a sense of strength and dignity and self-ownership rather than like oh my god my belly's so exposed um like if it wasn't for her I think that maybe I could have like stayed there indefinitely um and it it changed how i dated it changed how i like protected my and upheld my own

standards and it also made me just like quite direct about it so rather than seeing it because like this is something which is gendered which is you feel like if if you're a heterosexual woman you often feel that if you say like what i want is love that you've like failed at being a feminist you fail to be self-sufficient um you've failed to be like sufficiently sexually liberated you're putting yourself at the mercy of men and you're making yourself weak whereas actually i think to like have that front and center makes yourself strong because it gives you a greater ability to say no to like fuckeries well yeah exactly i mean it was only after i realized i had this internal realization what you want is a you know this

relationship and once i stopped denying it to myself that that's what i was doing it for i was like okay well now your communication has to match your mentality otherwise you're just going to end up like the people who you've been on dates with who've disappointed you by the gap between their communication and their actions. So it actually not only made me raise my standards in relation to someone else, it made me raise them in how I communicated full stop. And it's already changed a couple of things. Like on an app, someone asked me if I wanted to go out and I was, you know, I realized I didn't want to go out for various reasons. So I just said that instead of just leaving them hanging. And you could just leave them hanging on a dating app

because you haven't even met them. But I was like, you know what? No, I'm going to start practicing, like actually backing up what I want, my actions, making, as you said, making that gap between my actions and my words ever smaller. And only by doing that will I get to the place or partner, if there is one out there for me, that I actually want.

Because if I keep this massive gap open, I will just end up deluding other people and myself. And it's like before I was dating and I really didn't know what I wanted out of dating. And I think it took a long time for me to come to terms with this. And also be ready. Like I had the breakup of a serious relationship, like a serious three-year relationship and the you know i'd kind of process that at the time but it takes a long time to fully be ready to want to enter another relationship and make that commitment because people don't realize this the you know i see a lot of exes just roll on to like the next relationship and you're not moving on you're you're paying it there's a debt there there's an emotional debt

you haven't paid and And when that relationship ends, which it often does, I will say, you've got interest to pay on that fucking emotional debt. I would much rather have stayed like single for the long period I have. And really like, I think I've done so much growth. And I don't mean like I'm a better person or that.

I'm like, oh, I've realized so many. You're like, I've grown into a worse person. No, no. It's like,

I've realized I have so many like flaws, things around the way I, and I'm not beating myself up. I'm just like the way I communicate was so different to what I thought it was. My perception of myself was completely skewed. And I think only in like the last six months have I really started understanding the gaps

between how I present myself and how I'm actually feeling and how discombobulating that is for people trying to form a connection with me but also me trying to form a connection with other people there's loads of stuff there that you have to link up in order for other people to understand you and receive you and as you've said before and we've talked about you have to set your standards and stick to them otherwise no one else is going to fucking respect them and you don't you don't be angry when someone doesn't like meet your standards early on yeah sure if you're in like a one-year relationship and there's continuing lessening you down then you have to like think about you know resentment angered with

that but like if someone I've met once or twice doesn't meet my standards that's not something for me to be like furious about that's something for me to just listen to and go like okay cool peace you know yeah it's like I can't I can't take this as a comment on me I can't I can't make it my thing I can't let this activate my own neuroses and insecurities and fears of abandonment and fears of rejection you can just be like oh yeah stung a little bit but game's the game exactly and another reason I'm like I know that I'm ready I think I'm emotionally ready to enter a relationship is because of all this work I've done and because of all these realizations

I've had about myself and the way I relate to other people, particularly men, and the ways that I can be really unfair on them. And it's like the consciousness, the consciousness of your flaws, I think is what makes you be ready to like enter a relationship.

Because it's not that you won't have these problems, you won't have these conflicts. It's like knowing when they come up, okay, I have a tendency to do this how can I manage that am I regulating my emotions better have I got better when I'm interacting with people even if I'm going insane behind the scenes am I processing that before I then communicate with somebody and then am I communicating in a healthy manner it's all these things and what was there was another thing that I was like oh yeah because I've never felt better about myself like I'm like I look great I'm doing good things I'm and you know the other day when you were like I bet in a week you're gonna feel so good about yourself again

guess what you were fucking right you're right I feel great and it's like a man has recently rejected me and it hasn't made any difference like I feel and look great I'm in a really good place of my life a really exciting place in my life and that's when you're coming from a position of like solidity I think that's when you've got this foundation that like yeah I'm ready to date seriously again and I know lots of people won't do that and you don't have to be like fully healed to like love again it's just something for me that that's when I know that I'm ready to re-enter with intention and it's also made things easier and I'll shut up in a second but it's just something for me that that's when I know that I'm ready to re-enter with intention and it's also made things easier and I'll shut up in a second but it's made things easier already

on like the apps etc because now I know that I'm like dating with serious intention and yeah sure I'll entertain people along the way it doesn't matter because that's how you get to know but it's kind of like cut out a lot of like oh maybe I could entertain maybe I could do this no no there's like stick to what you want I think there's a couple of things like so the first thing that I'd want to say is that that thing which you spoke about which is being cognizant of your own flaws and committed to working through them is that that does not stop when you're in a committed relationship and in fact it deepens and yeah for myself like tomorrow will be the six month anniversary of my stepdad's passing and it's when I realized that no time has passed at all so even when um like looking at the period of time I was like oh it's been so long and I was like setting all these expectations for myself

for having like had to have like grieved this much and like I shouldn't be feeling like this anymore it's like no that was really no time at all and that was really like still like in the shock of it right like you know tomorrow it will be six months and I'm looking at all of the patterns that I've gotten into over those last six months including being like really avoidant with my family and being like really scared of like relying on them and then feeling very alone in my grief and resenting them for that even though no one told me that I had to do this by myself um being quite hedgehoggy if that makes sense so like you know like you curl in and then the spikes are out and the person who I'm having to like do all this work with like is very much my partner and so the other night like

I I got I got um hit by a grief wave and he just said to me like look it's not that I don't want to be there for you I very much want to be there for you but I know that what you have to do is call your mum and you have to reach out to her right now and so I'm actually going to like withhold some comfort and affection from you so you go and do this thing and you go do it right now and so I'm actually going to like withhold some comfort and affection from you so you go and do this thing and you go do it right now like get on that sofa like call her I'm going to do the washing up and then we're going to talk afterwards like when you are in a partnership it's like that work doesn't stop like it and in fact it deepens and like is it's not just about like well how am I within the context of like my romantic attachment it's like how am I within

the context of all my attachments and you're doing it with this person you're doing it for this person in some ways um and you're doing it to also like be a better partner for them by being better in like how you are like with all of these other other connections that you have so I think that's like the first thing that I'd very much say which is like it does not stop in fact it gets worse because they're in your house all the time telling you what you have to do about yourself and it's very annoying um it's also annoying because it's good for you um the second thing i'd like to point out is you know what we have not mentioned once is actually your big theory about men wanting a

wifey oh kind of indicates to me i'm not sure how strong it is as a theory because actually the direction that we've traveled in is much more about um you know the thinking saying doing gap and how that might exist for them rather than what image is it that they've got in their heads about what they want and how does that match up to you i don't think it's men wanting a wife i just said men are the people i've primarily drawn data from i think my theory my theory is no my theory is people actually you're right I should edit it my theory is people say in general they want a wifey or they just have this idea even when they're like I'm figuring out my date they were like I want love deep down even though they won't say it but until you actually have concretely identified no I want

a committed relationship for these reasons and these are the sort of like basic qualities not like a whole laundry list of they have to be six foot four and all of this, just like the basic things of like, they need to just be consistent. They need to show up. Those are the make me laugh. Those are the three initial things. And I'm ready for a committed relationship because of X, Y, Z, rather than just like, I don't want to feel alone. Then I think it, that's why I think so many people out there dating and they don't know what they want. And they'll meet someone who technically would answer every criteria but because they don't really know what they want and they haven't thought about why they want it or what they're bringing to the table

as well that's when the words of like no I want to see you again I want to do this thing with you I want to hang out with you want to date you and the actions which is linked to that actual feeling which is I don't want to see this person but they don't interrogate why that's when you get something like ghosting look I think and I think that's true and i think that that doesn't really have anything to do with the wifey i think that's got something to do with like a lack of self knowledge and a lack of like understanding of like what pursuing a relationship means um i suppose there's an interesting difference here which could be summed up by two different schools of thought when it comes to strategy right design strategy and emergent strategy you love strategy i look i'm

trying to learn about strategy because it's actually like a real weakness in my own thinking um so i've been like reading about this um in relation to navarro but there's a whole other thing so like design strategy is like um the kind of richard rummelt school strategy where it's like you know you do a lot of research you do a lot of mapping and then some very clever people go and they come up with a design for the strategy and they go like well here are the criteria here are the strategic objectives here are like you know the fucking like kpis um and that's going to like lead us to where we want to go um and i guess a bit of what what you're saying in terms of like well these are the criteria for thinking about like you know these early stages of dating like to me that seems a bit like design

led strategy and there's another which is like emergent strategy which is like the knowing through doing and like the strategy will emerge through the doing of the thing and I think maybe when it comes to like embarking on serious relationships the thing which has worked best for me is a sort of emergent strategy and thinking about like those really really early dates and interactions with you know the the man I'm now married to um looking back on it sure those are all things i could have come up with in a like design way because the um points of like confluence were so obvious right like both very very politically committed people right like both you know worked in politics in various ways like you know him for a political organization me for a media organization which and and a sense of like ambition and like

um taking our roles in the movement so seriously that we didn't want to like fuck about with a you know situationship so it's like okay well this is actually so important that like this thing which we create together has to be like very stable because it has to be like a base from which we can go out and do these other things and like enriches and supports these other things sure I could have perhaps seen that coming but like I didn't right another is like um the first time we hooked up I remember us talking about our families and I remember him talking specifically about like his relationship with his mom and like how much he loves his mom and like how he feels about her and I was like oh my god this is so fucking important to me because like she loves his mom and like how he feels about her. And I was like, Oh my God, this is so fucking important to me because like, um, I feel, you know, it, it really chimed with like the way I

feel about like my mom. And I was like, Oh, that like connection and sense of family and like someone who's not trying to like run away from their family. Like sure there are difficult things about family life, but like not trying to run away from it. Like, Oh yeah, really, really important. Again, could I have seen that coming? Could I have come up with that in like in a design way? Yes. Did I? No. And then all this stuff, which like, you know,

I learned through the deepening of the relationship, which is that like, you're actually incredibly goofy, a very doofus like, like when you feel safe and you feel comfortable, you don't take yourself very seriously. But they all emerged they all emerged through the getting to know of this person and i went in without a sense of like here are the criteria that need to be met it was much more like well here are my standards for how i want to be treated right and that was the thing which was like very

important to me because i was like you don't get a relationship unless you have those standards but a sense of like well here is like my my strategic criteria for like what will be the kind of person with whom I can have a committed relationship like it was so so like emergent and even though looking back on it it was also obvious it it didn't feel that way at the time yeah well i don't think anything feels obvious when you're falling in love but all those things in hindsight you can look and be like okay those were obviously things that were going to probably lead to you know a strong long-term relationship even if i didn't know but when you're just falling in love you're

just like falling in love that but that's why i don't want to set like specific xyz criteria but from dating people then i have realized you know a strong relationship with family is quite important to me because of my own background and my family etc but again that's why but i could have a whole list i could have a whole list of things i want but i'm just boiling it down to those standards of like okay showing, showing up consistently and consistent sort of communication as the first two in the very early dating stages. And then my one criteria of makes me laugh as well as like, you know, I want to be vaguely attracted to them. But the makes me laugh is probably the most important. Anyway, I think you're right. I think my initial big theory is not quite correct.

I think you're right. I think my initial big theory is not quite correct, but I think what we're really talking about here is the new big theory is that there is such a gap for so many people between what they think they want and what they actually want. And they haven't considered what they actually want at all. And if we did a bit more of that and actually look deep inside, so I've made it realistic rather than just like, I want to be wined and dined. I want the Uber to pick me up. And if it doesn't pick me up, I don't men's side, just like, oh, I just want this, this girl. Because men don't even think about it in the same way. The men I've met are just kind of like, yeah, just like a girl, like a really hot girl, like a girl. Right. And what they're talking about, and when they say that there's going to be this whole list of traits that they in their head have, but won't, can't and

won't articulate, are completely unconscious of. And it yeah like my wife my wife my wife and it's like you don't even know what the fuck that is you don't even know who you are you don't know what you're dating for you don't know what you really want like you could not identify if i made you look at your past girlfriends what attracts you to them because the the internal interrogation and self-awareness is so lacking in a lot of like straight men and i'm sorry i don't want to generalize but it's just not something they're encouraged to do. And it's crazy when you talk to them on dates and ask them questions about stuff. And they're like, oh, I've never thought of that. What do you mean you've never thought about this? I'm not even saying like, oh, what's your ex like? I don't ask that. But I mean, just basic stuff about themselves. Like, oh, what traits do you

really prize in people? And they're like, I've never thought about that. Have you ever thought about this? Have you never considered this for one second? Like, what conversations do you really prize in people and they're like i've never thought about that have you ever thought about this have you never considered this for one second like what conversations are you having um so they're all these things but yeah you're right okay big theory amended but i think useful and i would also say to anyone out there who's looking for like or realizing they're open to i don't think looking for is the right word open to a committed relationship dating with a committed relationship as the ultimate goal but not just getting into any old committed relationship I would say separate the person from the outcome separate the person in front of you from the

outcome that you want because otherwise you're you're conflating the two and you'll get pissed off when they don't meet yeah they don't they don't fulfill your fantasies of this outcome of the committed relationship when actually the whole point is if they can't do just basic things like show up uh i don't know make you laugh in my case then they're not ever gonna be part of the outcome for you that's my that's my end note i suppose the last thing that would add on to it is that clarity of purpose is so so important so if what you deep down want is love then you're either dating to break up or dating for love right there's no dating for dating's sake and it is a sort of a play on something which like you know maybe i heard on a toxic bit of christian twitter which

is like you're dating to break up you're dating for marriage and i was like that's kind of fucked up but also kind of true um if that's what you want spoken like a true wife guy what if i'm dating for love but you might break up anyway and that's fine yeah that's true that's true that's fine that is fine but like you're not dating for dating sake is what i'm saying no now i'm now i'm dating because ultimately i would like a committed long-term relationship and okay, along the way, it's fine if those don't emerge, but I would like to get past the pub. I would like to move past the date to pub and just fucking take someone to some of my favourite places

and have a nice time and, you know, eventually live in a flat together for a bit. And that's what i want the nicest is when you get past the uh one night staying over and then you spend the whole next day together and it's like do you want to stay another night you know you know that's uh i remember that i remember that oh i remember i remember Do you know what is nice as well? I have been in love. I have been in love in infatuation and I've been in love properly deep, boots down to the ground,

lying on a rock, looking up at the sky with that person thinking, I feel so comfortable and safe and just like I'm floating. I've been in that kind of love and I know I've had it. So if I never have it again, it's okay.

But now if I never have it again it's okay but now I'm if I get the opportunity I'm excited to put into action all the things I've learned about myself and how I relate to other people since that last relationship and I don't think that means I'll be perfect in relationship as you say but it's like coming to a relationship with more self-awareness about your flaws your strengths all of that I'm really excited for whoever dates me you know i'm excited you know i always think i'm just excited for new mistakes speaking of looking for love and new mistakes it's time for missed connections moya what should people do if they have a misconnection you should send it into if i

speak at navarra media.com with details we want the time we want the place we want the date we want some details about the person that you had your misconnection with and you because they might not have felt it so we need to know what you you need to identify some things about yourself as well we won't read out your names on the pod. If you recognize yourself in any of these misconnections and you want to be either connected to the person or you want to send a cease and desist. Also email if I speak at NavarroMedia.com and we will do the rest. We are going to put these on social media. If you send a misconnection in, just be aware if it's read out, it's going to go on social media as well.

That's them's the breaks right so i'm going to read the first one and then we'll alternate okay so love the pod i've been listening since the first episode but didn't imagine myself writing in until recently i was in the philosophy section of waterstones in manchester in early august when a woman suddenly asked me for help choosing a philosophy book it was such an unexpected interaction that I was initially slightly awkward, but as we got talking I was struck by how open and kind she was, leading me to completely relax. She told me about her love of Indian literature

and how she wanted to understand how ideas about the meaning of life had been explored in philosophy. I helped her choose two books and almost offered my email address in case she wanted to keep talking, but at the last moment the awkwardness returned and i just wish her well with the reading i've been kicking myself ever since for not taking that small risk to continue our connection if by some chance you're listening to this podcast i'd love to finish our conversation about philosophy and literature moya take it away it's a really nice one okay looking for remy location castray i might be

but i might be actually butchering this is an international one uh castray little tarn south of france 20th of august 2024 you really do want to find remy because i just don't feel like remy is listening remy nipa if i pas écoute if I speak, okay? I made eye contact with you several times while getting my groceries ready. I was quite obnoxious and with my mother. I put the barrier between our grocery baskets and you said merci.

You had chickpeas and a bottle of rum. We smiled at each other and I again realised how cute you were. My mother's card was declined, lol, and it was mortifying because neither of us had connection to move money because we'd just bought expensive dog medication for my uncle and I had an interest in you. There should be some clauses in this.

You then offered in perfect English to hotspot us and were very helpful, kind and charming. Your name is Remy, you have a Google Pixel and I really regret not asking for your number i think you're 41 years old because of your hotspot password let me buy a drink lol i want to say thanks and get to know you better this is a mega long shot as i don't know if anyone reads navara media in the town but i think you're worth it and you gave a well-connected vibe so please share this if you have any local links incredibly paced i really enjoyed that okay remy shout us out

love that story next hey ashen moya here goes sunday 23rd of june in the lift of market in peckham they had dark hair and i was melting in all black we talked about their great waistcoat i was on my lunch break and the hunger and shine is one out over continuing the conversation appreciate the podcast and you both so much i have faith we might be able to find that person because obviously i'm peckham based and 90 of navarra seems to be peckham based so i think we can find that person we're gonna find that person okay next one i am so glad you're doing misconnections as i too have noticed how hesitant people are to approach people who catch their eye out and about out catch their eye out and about particularly since covid personally i tend to just go for it

nevertheless i too have a misconnection this is fucking old we were canvassing for pfizer shaheen on election day 2019 We sat next to each other elated and chatting away happily on the 357 bus towards Walthamstow tube station until the awful exit poll was announced. For me, the second most disappointing news that night was learning he already had a girlfriend. I wonder if that is still the case. He's a tall, dark-haired journalist. Abort, abort. With a very classically English name, which I can't remember. I do remember he was living in very central London with his partner.

I'm a blue-eyed, dark-haired art conservator from Wales with a terrible memory for names. Again, tall, dark-haired journalist. I'm pretty sure we can find that one. We'll stick that on Twitter because we'll find that i think i might already know who it is in which case they they still have a partner but like that's purely speculation on my part tell me offline who it is hi ashen moya i'm looking for a male presenting person i spotted at trans pride in london we were marching down regent street and they were in a group of four male presenting people wearing black trousers a black backpack a red t-shirt and a silver chain

they were tall and dark-skinned and so hot i was trying to gather the courage to speak to them but i couldn't before i had to leave if they're interested in hearing from a cis woman i would love to find them um that's gonna be a tricky one i think think too vague. It's very vague. I kind of think I might know who that is. It could be anyone, but I might know who that is. I do think potentially barking up the wrong tree.

They're interesting in hearing from a cis woman, but we'll see. We'll see. If it's the person I think it is. Never say never. If it's the person i think it is never say never if it's the person i think it is barking up the wrong tree um okay looking for tall abedonian man from charlie xcx at glasto yes we were all at levels we were at party girl okay let's go date 28th of june 2024 location the ice cream van at levels glastonbury i was dancing to charlie xcx's dj set in front of the ice cream van outside levels because we couldn't get in i was in a t-shirt that said guess and uh brackets i'm not wearing any amazing and had a very long

fake high ponytail in i have a tash and tattoos. I was queening out with his pal who introduced us after hearing my Glaswegian accent. He's got dark hair, is about six foot five, and absurdly handsome, like someone from a 90s novel adaptation. We spoke very briefly. Then he hugged me from behind and said, we'll talk about Aberdeen another time

while departing before the end of Charlie. Help me. Sis, we're going to help gonna help we're gonna find your brat because brat summer is over and it's time for cuffing autumn i fucking love that one um all right hey moya and ash i love your work thank you for being funny intelligent amazing voices for us all i've never done anything like this before but i heard your missed connections and thought what the heck can it be anonymous don't want my name on insta my missed connection happened at a folk gig last bank holiday monday 26th of august bridget st john and goblin band and others were playing in a gallery in soho london broadside hacks were running the night

i was waiting for my friend who ended up not coming so I was there on my own and gravitated towards the back by the open doors to the courtyard a tall man maybe six foot one or two with shortish light brown hair and nice size wearing smart wide trousers and fisherman type sandals with socks oh yes and a shirt of a kind of dusty mauve color I think was in the courtyard or standing at the back near me for a fair bit of the evening and there was definitely something happening when we looked at each other i felt a little shy being there by myself so i didn't pluck up the oomph to chat to him before he left early maybe he was part of the event organizing or at least he seemed to know a lot of the people there he was talking to an interesting looking older couple for ages i'm tall five foot ten or eleven with wavy light brown hair

and i was wearing light blue jeans light blue silk top with a white shirt over it and brown mary jane shoes with socks now realizing how hard it is to delve into facial descriptions haha but hopefully that is okay sorry for the super long message i want i think we can find that person too we're gonna have to tag the venue when we post it because how many people were at a folk gig on bank holiday monday you know okay not that many next one hi asha moya i have a last festival related missed connection for you to close out the summer i'm a male presenting person in their mid-20s i was at end of the road festival last weekend and i had a lovely time on the thursday evening in the silent disco where i met two irish women roughly the same age as me one of

them let's call her sophie not her real name was somewhat inebriated and she managed to persuade a group of people dancing nearby including myself to engage in some slightly strange but very fun synchronized dancing her friend all her friend let's call her also not her real name was much more sober and we ended up dancing together for a while after sophie left to find the rest of their friends she eventually left too and as she left we had a little moment where we hugged and then withdrew quite gradually until just the tips of our fingers were touching. I bumped into them again on the way back to my tent and Orla and I had a good chat about some of the events of the evening. I hoped I'd run into them again during the festival. End of the road is the sort of festival where you tend to run into people more than once but alas I

did not. Not gonna lie I've been looking for an excuse to send one of these in but i would genuinely love to connect with all again i felt like we had a real fleeting connection huge fan of the show and both of you as public intellectuals wow and personalities thanks for the work you do ash i think you are a public intellectual but i think i'm a public i'm a public dumbass yeah i'm like the same that's my thing i really like that one i've done that thing where you leave someone with just the fingertips and my god the sexual tension oh nature looking for arctorex guy date 31st of august 2024 i was in the arctorex shop at battersea power station and this very lovely guy helped me he was ginger and i think had a few earrings i ended up buying the trousers he was wearing lol we chatted about uni for a bit he just graduated and i had a couple more years left of a

long degree i felt like maybe i cut the conversation short because i'm not the best with things like that but when i left i wish i'd carried on the conversation a bit longer i have short hair and round glasses and was wearing loose gray jeans i will die if this works lol no please don't die uh thanks big fan of the podcast and of navara media's output you are doing the lord's work again so we've got to tag battersea power station when we do that making these notes uh okay where and when smoking area venue mot in south bermondsey london can i just say something i don't really like venue mot it's always oversold too hot uh on the 17th of august at about 12 30 a.m the event was the cheeky sound system

slash brick brewery after party my flatmate had left to go home but i was enjoying the music so decided to stay a little longer i went outside to the smoking area for a rest and ended up sitting next to two girls i usually talk myself out of approaching people, but this occasion, I eventually plucked up the courage to ask them for a cigarette. We ended up having a nice conversation. One of the girls was French and her friend was Italian. Both were lovely,

but I got the slightest feeling the French girl might have been trying to tee up her friend for me. If you felt it, she 100% was. In the end, I was too timid to ask for her number or push the conversation too much as i didn't want

to impose but hindsight there's probably no need for me to leave as soon as i did the italian girl was white mid-20s with dark hair her friend commented that she admired her passion for sustainability and her integrity she seemed like a great person and i would definitely love to chat with her more me male mid to late 20s light gingery beard clear frame glasses mid length slightly curly brown cut slightly curly brownish hair tip for listeners if you don't want to ask for the number come on do instagram just say can i get your insta so fine great that's midway don't ever ask for a snapchat because you're not 15 and that's the end of misconnections i would never even know where to begin on asking someone

for social media i think i would prefer number i think no i mean number if there's an un if you have the courage which most people i would say try and just ask for the number say can i get your number then ask the number but if it's not like a set vibe and you're just like oh i like this person i don't know in what way get the instagram it when people ask me for instagram i'm like yeah i'll give the instagram and it's also sometimes less pressure as well on you as the person who has yet to decide what kind of uh way you feel about this person you've just met you're like yeah instagram's low stakes get the insta perhaps perhaps perhaps anyway we have come to the end of another voyage uh who have you been?

you just told everyone who I've been, you blew the secret I'm Moira Lothian-McLean and you're Ash Sarkar I am Guy Incognito alright goodbye bye oh that was fun

that was fun. That was really fun.