If I Speak - 73: Where did it all go wrong on the dancefloor?

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

*Flag your Special One status with the If I Speak Baggu bag – it’s ethically made, comes in two colours and is available now from shop.novaramedia.com* Having rekindled her appetite for fun, Ash now has a five-point plan to improve dancefloors. Plus, advice for a special one whose boyfriend isn’t weird or jealous – and that’s the […]

Hello, special ones. This is producer Chal. A brief apology for me as you'll notice that this week's episode should have come out last week as it begins with a conversation between Moira and Ash about what they'd been up to on their two-week break. As you may know, we record the episodes in blocks of two every other week and due to an administrative error I got them mixed up. So apologies for that. Normal service has now resumed. Thanks for listening. Hello and welcome to If I Speak after a two week holiday break. It was one which was initially enforced by Moira getting some kind of gnarly upper respiratory

situation. So it wasn't much of a holiday for you, but it was a holiday for me and I've come back feeling very refreshed. How about you? How are your lungs? I had a real holiday the week after to be fair. So I did get break. I got break, but I also had illness. It's a real mix. Break from breathing. Break from breathing. Yeah, my respiratory situation isn't amazing. Not right now, but I mean, this year, I've started getting respiratory afflictions every now and then, which doesn't feel like a good portent. Not sure what's going on there. Never find out because I don't ring the GP up enough. Puffing asbestos, man. That'll do it to you. Maybe I've got some mould going on that

I don't know about. Anyway, anyway, anyway, man, that'll do it to you. Maybe we've got some mold going on that I don't know about. Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, I've got questions for you about what you've been doing, which I've wrapped into 73 questions, minus 70. Yes. So we can do our proper catch up then. But I also want to say, sorry to the special ones that we didn't inform, we're going on a break

because I started getting distressed messages last week. Like, where are you? It's been two weeks. Where's my fix? We were going to record it like, hey, we've gone on a break. But basically, it's been chaos at Navarra Towers. What was the prescription of Palestine Action and what that means for us as journalists. And so we had all these plans to record a little message and we couldn't. Yeah, we will next time, I promise. But also next time we'll probably plan the break. So I think this summer break is good.

I think we should start bringing in a couple more half terms. It also, it genuinely has allowed, I think not being on the sort of like, like productivist mindset and just being able to like sit back from the pod, even for a really short amount of time. I'm like, oh, I've got so many new ideas for it. Yeah, you have time to think and generate concepts. Anyway, let us get to the concepts. But first, we have to motor through the 73 questions pass.

Do you like my driving metaphor? I'm not sure how good it is. I do, I do like it. I was thinking more like a sort of snowy perilous pass that has to be traversed by some kind of ancient army. Oh yeah that's actually much better but you're such a Roman... Hannibal. Hannibal times I'm like, oh yeah, just driving through Sheffield snake pass. Okay. Right. Question one is a catch up question. What did you do in your break?

What did I do during my break? I went to Glastonbury where I did a talk, but the talk was quite early on the Friday, so it meant that afterwards I could just embrace full reprobate mode. And I had a really, really good time. And I think the key to having a good time was giving myself permission to leave at any point where I felt I wasn't having fun. Did you do that? No, I didn't.

But the feeling of I'm here because I want to be here changes everything, really, really changes everything. Then after that came back for basically a day and then went to Oxfordshire where I was speaking at another festival, which was incredibly surreal because it was very, very sleppy. So you just like look next to you and Margot Robbie was there and I was like, what the fuck? And I then came back for another day and then went to Bradford to speak at the Literature Festival. It was also kind of like quite emotional because it was the first time going back to Bradford since burying my stepdad's ashes and seeing some of his family and visiting the gravesite. But it felt like a new

stage of what it means to live without him, but keep a sense of connection alive. And then it was connection alive. And then it was back to Navarra time. And yeah, it was a very, very intense period of work. And then I spent the weekend with friends. It was really, really wholesome. Like I said, I said in like March or April, we're going to have a great summer and look at it. Behold. As in the weather or the vibe? The vibe is downstream from the weather, we know this. It is. However, I feel the weather is amazing. I feel the vibe is weird, but we'll get on to that.

We'll get on to that. Okay, second question relates to the first question. How was your first class? What was the standout moment? I loved it so much. I loved it so, so much. I think that because I got artist camping, it meant that I had really easy access to showers. And that for me is critical. That is life critical infrastructure

because I love being clean, I hate the feeling of being dirty. So showering twice a day, super duper important, that was great. Seeing, like on the Saturday, I saw Bob Villain followed by kneecap, followed by Ezra Collective, followed by Skepta, followed by Dochi. And I was like, any one of these sets could be the best thing I see all year. And the fact that it was crammed into one day felt, felt really incredible. Um, it was also a really fun thing to do with my partner

because I was a little bit worried that having to share a tent with him would end in divorce. How big a tent did you get? Because this is so important. It wasn't a massive tent. You get like a full man for two people, that's the real key. It was three for two. Okay, that's fine. So it was a three man for two people.

You can do that. But I think he was really, really trying to like make it nice for me. Cause he knows I'm a, I'm a North London Asian princess. And so I'm too camp for camping. Did you have the air bed? We didn't have the air bed, but that's better because I like a really hard surface.

I don't, I don't want a soft surface. I need, I want like the most spartan surface for my back. Yeah. So, so that, that works, that works really well. And no, we had a really nice time, I think in a way where it was like, oh, we are having this like shared experience, which brings us closer together. And actually he was the one that got grumpy sometimes and not me, not even once. Why do you think that was?

What switched? Because I think he is the king of unreasonably high expectations for having an experience. Yes. What is this with boyfriends? Why do they love to have high expectations and then get grumpy when they're not met? I don't know. I don't know. But I think he also knows this about himself. He knows this about himself. Also, he's never going to be the golden retriever allegations because we had a big room tidy up when we got back and a big clear out. Every time he approached a new pile of stuff, there'd just be multiple tennis balls. Not only would there be multiple tennis balls, he'd be like, oh, a ball. And then you'd throw it.

Then I'd pretend to throw it and then he'd be like, betrayal. Okay. So you took your golden retriever to Glastonbury and they had a lovely time. Oh wait, I have one more question. What do you think of the long drops? Oh, the long drop toilets. Yeah. I kind of love them.

What do you think of the long drops? Oh, the long drop toilets. Yeah, I kind of love them. So I would say the toilets where I was camping were great, phenomenal. The, you know, the gen pop toilets, sometimes it was like, just breathe and get through it. But the key was to never ever poop in gen pop. I'd poop anywhere.

I'm a nervous pooper. Oh my friends like that. My friend is a nervous anything toilet. So do I not come across as generally anally retentive? I thought that. I thought you might be a nervous pooer. No way. I'm a very free and easy pooper. Ain't got no hangups about the poop. Just like, where you gotta go? I have a fast metabolism, you know? Like, you can't have hangups when you have like a really fast metabolism. I've never done like a wilderness poop, and I hope that I've structured my life

in such a way that I never have to. I've never had to do it. I have done it, but I've never had to do it. But I've only done it as a child. Like once, just to see what it was like. And let me tell you, it's not a funny, it's not like a satisfying, fun experience. I'll always take a toilet.

Oh, the next question. Okay, last question. Oh, wait. Is this a fourth question? No, because that was just a follow-up. Oh, that was a follow-on. That was a follow-on. I have an actual third question, which is, what is your stress tell? Tell. Probably that'll tell you. I mean, the thing is, is that I'm fairly good at being open with the people close to me. I'm feeling the emotion of stress. So I don't think people have to rely on a tell. Within my own body, lack of sleep, poor sleep, upset tummy, and also a surprise period

because I've got the hormonal coil which means that I generally don't have periods but if I'm feeling stressed, my body will be like, time to shed the uterine lining. You know, I've been meaning to do this. What about yours? What do your stress tell?

My texts get very monosyllabic because I'm like, there's no time. There's no time. When I wake up in the morning, I want to look on my phone first thing because I'm really emotionally like dysregulated and I need dopamine. So I'm always like trying to find something to stimulate me.

I can't think. That's a big one. I'll sit down in front of a to-do list and there'll be so much that it feels like wading through treacle to even get to the first thing. And like, I have to really take so much time to peel it apart. And because sometimes you want to cut the Gordian knot

but you have to unpick it instead, that's stress. That's the definition of stress to me. When you can't cut the Gordian knot and you have to unpick it instead. That's stress. That's the definition of stress to me, when you can't cut the Gordian knot and you have to unpick it. That is peak stress. See, my thinking, like when I'm really stressed and I've just sort of embraced it and I'm just like, let's go.

Like I can cut the Gordian knots and that's fine. But like when I'm no longer actively doing the task, that's when I can't think in the sense of like, like miss my tube stop like constantly, like basic tasks really, really flummox me. I get really annoyed. I was like kind of stressed out about something and I was talking to my partner and our housemate about it.

And they were just being normal, right? They were being normal, which is like giving like really nice advice, but also like having a bit of a joke. And every time they made a joke, I wanted to clunk their heads together. Don't you understand? Don't you understand? Don't you understand your business? It's not clunking to you. Oh my God, Justin Bieber. That's not a good business. Like, it's not working to you.

Oh my God. Justin Bieber. A bit worried about him at the moment. Worried about him, but the album is great. Is it? Oh, the album's great. But my insiders say that he basically just came in and laid vocals down and the producers did most of the work. But the album is really good.

You have Justin Bieber insiders. I've got insiders everywhere, baby. I'm an inside gal. I'm an inside gal. MI5 can't keep me out. Actually, we've got a music related big theory, haven't we? We do. Take it away.

So this is my big theory. The top line is make dancing good again. Oh wait, but I could I could make it a fun acronym if what's a word for good that begins with M? Marvelous. Make dance sing marvelous again. No, this is... Ah ha ha ha! I put my D in. So, Moya, as we discussed previously, this summer I was on a mission to rediscover my capacity for fun.

A mission fucking accomplished. You know, since having that conversation with you, I've had fun by myself, I've had fun with old friends, I have had fun making new friends, and I had a way of a time with my partner as well. Long may it continue. So it's mission accomplished, but not mission over, right? Like I still want to keep embracing the fun.

But in all these forays outside of the house, I've made some deeply worrying discoveries. Not that these discoveries were new to me. I've been feeling this for a long time, but it really, really rammed home to me something, which is that dancing has become as atomized and as cooked by the dominance of social media as anything else. Um, and I think before I think before I've spoken to you

about why I blame techno. I do think that like when techno came along and everyone's dancing in like a sad, nihilistic little line, people aren't dancing with each other, I think that that did exacerbate these problems, but it's actually a much bigger malaise. So what do I think the problem is? People aren't dancing with each other. People aren't dancing with each other. They dance next to each other, right? And occasionally,

people might turn to somebody that they already know to sort of like dance with them a little bit and they're like, I see you kind of way. But in general, the dancing happens facing the DJ and proximity to the DJ has become a signifier of status. So now it's not enough to be close to the DJ facing the DJ. People want to be behind the DJ, right, next to the DJ, dancing. So it's not about, hey, I'm dancing with people, it's about to what extent does the place where I'm dancing signify my social status and how is it going to look on social media? How is it going to look on video when I'm seen here in this place? Or how does the party look from the vantage point of a video of the DJ, right? Not a video of the dance floor, but a video of the DJ. And I think that boiler room has a lot to answer for. Boiler

room has a lot to answer for because those videos where the videos are obviously of the DJ, then the people who are dancing behind or next to the DJ become really, really important. And I saw a video pop up on Instagram, which was just like 20 people behind the DJ. And everyone very, I'm afraid you can't hear this if you're listening to the pod, but very like this. Ash is pursing her lips and pouting. She's doing blue steel. I'm doing blue steel. And everyone's like that and everyone's like, you know, so it's like a form of dancing, which is like very self-serious. Very, very self-serious and very, very atomized. So I think that this is a fundamental problem, which is people look at parties through the lens

of how it will reflect well or not on social media. And also what that means is that people can become passive when it comes to the party. So rather than a party being like, we make this good all together, right? We make this good all together and make it fun to be out all together. It's sort of like, oh, how's this going to reflect on me, what everyone else is like, or my position

in terms of proximity to the DJ. So having identified the problem, I've also put together a five point program for making dancing marvelous again. And none of them involve adding psychoactive substances to the mix, right? None of them. Fantastic news. So point one, put the DJ in the corner again. Right? I'm an old lady. I remember when the DJ was not necessarily the focal point of what you could see on the dance floor. The DJ would sometimes be in a corner. So what that means is that rather than people all facing the same direction, people can face each other. So sorry if you're a DJ and you really like the feeling of being God,

but I'm afraid- It feels great. I'm afraid you've got to go back in the corner. Point two, ban phones. No filming, no photos, no Insta stories, no taking photos of your outfit at the party. Moya. No, I think that should be allowed, but we'll get onto that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You can turn a look. You can put together a fit, you can look fantastic, but no photos of yourself at the party. And again, I'm an old lady. I remember when there would have to be a club photographer because no one's camera phone was good enough, right? And they would just be amongst the crowd, swimming amongst the crowd like a fish in the sea.

And you would have to go through the Facebook photo. You don't come to any of my parties because I hire a club photographer specifically for that reason. Yeah, but the thing is there is a club photographer, but also people have their own phones. No phones. They do. No phones, right?

You have to rely on the club photographer for your memories of the night and you don't know where they're gonna pop up. So no insistories, no filming, no photos, no phones. Point three, I can't ban it because it's already illegal, but I think it should be considered passe, ketamine. Ketamine, get rid, get rid, get rid. Because I think that's also part of the kind like alienated, you know, slightly like in your own world, because, you know,

ketamine takes you inwards, right? And so it's not that I have a blanket issue with psychoactive substances, nor do I think that you should have to take them to have a good time. But I just think I think ketamine needs to get in the bin, get rid. Point four, again, this is important for thinking about what way are you facing? Where's your orientation? Bring back dancing in a circle around your bags.

Bring it back. Bring it back. Bring it back. Bring it back. It meant that people faced each other. It meant that people faced each other. It meant that people faced each other and it meant that you danced with people a lot more. It was great. You don't have to bring a bag, but again, it means that the dominance of the DJ and thinking about like who's seeing me, that stuff breaks down. And the last point, resurrect slow jams.

I can't remember the last time I heard a slow jam. And I love the slow jams. Mm, my engage another bed, red dress, a little lady, and we can set the party afire. It's me, my name is Annie. Got a great remix of that, that I played at my night, that you never come to, which is also ending.

Which is also ending. Anyway, I'll go on to that. I'll come to the last one if you ban phones and get them in from it. Well, I'm about to speak on this. And you go into the corner. So right, five point plan, DJ in a corner, ban phones, get them in, make it socially unacceptable, dancing around a circle, around your bags, run it back and resurrect the slow jam. Moya, what do you think?

Do you think that dancing needs to be made marvelous again? What do you think could make it marvelous again, if so? And do you dispute any of my recommendations? As you know, I am a diger. A diger? a diger. A diger? A diger. I'm a Dijon Mustard. I'm a Dijon Mustard.

And a professional. Oh, that's, is that why Dijon Mustard got his name? I think his name, his name is actually Dijon. We've just cracked. This is a flow rider moment. This is a flow rider moment. moment. This is a flow-rider moment. Okay, anyway. Mustard! Okay, so Dijon Mustard, that's me, and I'm also a professional party connoisseur.

I have been assessing and honing the vibe since I was a teenager. I have been throwing parties since then, I've been attending parties, I have been analyzing what makes a party good. And there's a third thing that listeners do not know about me. I love to dance. I'm really good at it. You're really good at dancing. I'm a fantastic dancer. But recently, Ash, I will say to you, I have not been feeling the dance. Por que?

I have been feeling disconnected from dancing. I've been feeling the dance. Por que? I have been feeling disconnected from dancing. I've been feeling like I can't move anymore. I'm not as, there's something, something's stopping me. There's something preventing me. I feel surveilled when I'm on a dance floor. People, when I start dancing energetically, gather around in a circle and start cooing, which, you know, could be seen as flashy, but I find it fucking weird and annoying because then I become an object. And the only reason they're doing that is because I am often one of the few people on a dance floor really dancing. So addressing your five point plan, right, and addressing what you think the root of this issue is, I kind of, I only half agree with your analysis or diagnosis that part of the reason dancing is atomized is because of this boiler room culture where it's about, you know, being seen by

the DJ or near the DJ. I think in specific spaces like a boiler room place, like, I don't know, Mixmag lab, they're going to stop inviting me. That is probably the case, right? If there is a, especially if there's a cloudy DJ playing, or you're at a club that has particularly cloudy reputation, the crowd are probably going there to be seen in that way. However, I think there's another element that's related to it, which is just the general panopticon we live in that is affecting the dance.

And that is the idea that at any point, any time you can be captured on camera. And it's not necessarily making people like dance with this conscious thought or even unconscious thought in mind that they wouldn't be seen in the digi and they're cloudy. It's this idea of like total mass surveillance that they're being watched at all times.

Because when I feel I'm being watched on a dance floor and these people are gathering around me and some of them get their fucking phones out, it's like I'm an animal in a dance floor and these people are gathering around me and some of them get their fucking phones out. It's like I'm an animal in the zoo. It's so weird. And I've watched this happen to my sister as well. My sister used to be a better dancer than me.

She was a better dancer than me. We've both been good dancers. But you say she's the greatest dancer. Ah, wow. Do you wonder why? She's the greatest dancer. But over the years I have watched her sort of withdraw into herself and become a very awkward shell of like her former dancing free self.

There is a lack of freedom now in her movement. Um, and I see a lot of people move with a lack of freedom. One place I don't see this as much is actually at my parties. And I think there is a reason for it. Which I'm an amazing party thrower. No, the reason for it is because I play music with words that people love so much they forget about all the sort of posturing the panopticon and they're just yelling along to the words because they're distracted. And they're taken back to a place where it's just them and an enchanting song they really know and love. And it's like that idea like I think that would happen if there was slow jumps on the club that people adored.

The surprise of it makes them engage with it in a way that can help them forget. Whereas with techno, I really, I can do techno and I think some techno is sublime. But I think it's very rare. I think a lot of the time it's just you and this ongoing beat. And that leads me to another point,

which is I, another reason dancing is maybe getting, is a rarer art form. First, people are not as embodied as they used to be. I think that we're losing a lot of touch with our bodies as just like free moving things. They've become either vehicles that we optimize in the gym, or things we're very disconnected from, because we're on our phones all the time. Second thing, attention spans. I actually think the shortened attention span has something to do with the inability to settle into the dance. Because I think, you know,

you're listening to techno or something, I noticed that when I'm out with my friends and we're at a techno thing, we get bored so quickly because there's nothing to latch onto and our brains are used to constant stimulus. So every five minutes, shall we go to smoking area? Should we go get a drink?

Should we go? Because we're bored. We're bored that there's no words. Whereas when I'm playing words at my club night, and everyone's singing along, a lot of people are like, I couldn't leave the dance floor because it just the songs kept coming. And I think this is why at weddings, you'll often see people having the best time because it's songs that they know, they keep coming, there's a stimulus they can latch on to. I really genuinely think attention spans play a big part in making the dance feel less live and less free

than it used to because people after 30 seconds or whatever, they're like, right, where's the thing? Oh, I'm just doing this, I'm doing this. I agree with you on the wedding point and the songs that you recognize, right? Like even the feeling of everyone going, oh! Like, you know, like, it's been a long time since I've heard it. Oh, like you need to come to my night.

I'm going to come. I'm going to come. I'm going to come. I'm going to come. And like, you know, that changes at house parties. Like it changes in context, where people play music with words. And but like also at weddings, the DJ, if the DJ was the star at the wedding, something's gone really, really wrong, right? Because there's a different focal point, right? Very often the bride and groom, but not just the bride and groom, right? You'll also have a particular person who's tearing up the dance floor, someone who is surprising who's tearing

up the dance floor. There's the cross-generational thing as well. So your focus is on the people around you. And I also think it comes back to that thing, which is like my experience of weddings, especially like very good ones, is that everyone feels the sense of like, it's our job to make this as special as possible for the couple at the center of it. Right? So they're not just here to like experience something themselves and take from it, they're like, it's my job to like give something to this. And like, I really, really felt that like, at my own wedding, so like the reception was at my mum's house in the garden and the rain was like thundering down onto this tarp. And what was so great about it is that I think also because it was raining, everyone's like party capacity

just like found like an extra like, you know, 70%. So it was, it felt like the last rave at the end of the universe. Like it was, it was amazing. And I think it was this real sense of like, we've got to make this special for somebody else. And I think that in turn, it makes it special for them. Like, I think that there's a collectivist mindset. Exactly. And not an individualized one. Exactly. I would and I would also say the collectivist mindset links to something else. So, not to keep referencing my night, but one of the main things is we get everyone singing along.

Like they're singing along to all the songs, they're turning around so people they don't know going, oh my God, I can't believe they're playing this song. I love this song. We dropped, we dropped. There's so many like random songs that they'll hear. That's the point of it. You're like, you know this song and you've never heard it like this

and you're gonna love it. And I remember my birthday, I played to sign me out with you by Avril Lavigne. It was such a crazy, it was like an actually beautiful moment. And I had people come up being like, that was my favorite moment like I've had in the club in so long, because it's just, it's not, it's not something that's particularly interesting.

It's just like you play a song that people really love and didn't expect that they could all sing to and suddenly that makes them bond with people around them, as you say, rather than DJ. However, I have lots more points, right? Another thing I think about the dance experience and what you're saying here is I think there is a problem where people are not going where they actually want to. I think there is an issue where people are going,

you know, I've done this, you go on RA, and I think it's less about the DJ. I think it's more about the fact that people are not finding the nights they'd actually want to go to. They're trying to force themselves into places that they don't really enjoy because they think they should be there.

Um, you know, the rise, I'm sure lots of people love tech now. I'm sure lots of people love EDM, but like, I used to go to those nights at the time, not really have a particularly good time, but because you have, you know, alcohol and other substances, you can kind of like rub along and I do think that affects the collective experience because when you go to somewhere where everyone is really loving it and they're all there because they know they're gonna have a great time

with this music with or without, rather than they're going for trying to find something else, go somewhere because they think there's a guy there, blah, blah, blah. Like if you go to, so I went to Adonis, maybe I go to Adonis like once a year, maybe, and Adonis is very techno-y and it's also not a party that's like designed for me, it's for gay men who is also the option of like

going with dark room, et cetera, like it's a mix of sex party, techno party, it's very based on like Berlin, I would say. And I was dead sober and I was totally invisible. And I was kind of like, I'm not having fun at all because the music just wasn't hitting for me. But there's so many people there loved that music and they were really locked in.

And I was like, I'm just gonna leave because there's no point me being here. Like, why do I go? And I'm like, don't go to those things if you don't actually enjoy the basic thing, which is the music, because the other bits, the other ways you will have to like lubricate yourself, which is where you go to the Ketterman.

I also think cocaine should be banned from dance floors. This is not the 1970s. We don't have New York cocaine anymore. The cocaine that people are taking in, you know, clubs nowadays, that will not make you dance. That will make you sit on the large plasticky sofas and talk shit for, till the end of the night. Walking into the wall of cocaine farts. I mean, I haven't actually experienced those. That's crazy.

Okay, well, maybe I got lucky. Anyway, cocaine and ketamine should definitely be banned, but also for everyone's own good, because they are destroying our youth, sadly. But I think it's a mix of like, people are going to cloudy places, or places they think they should go. And that's fine when you're trying to find experience. But after a while, I think you've got to admit that actually, maybe you do want to be in the like, queer club down the road that's going to play your pop bangers. Or maybe you actually don't want to

be the queer club around the road that's paying you pop bangers. And you want to be in the hardcore techno club, because that's what you really enjoy. Like, go where you actually don't want to be in the queer club around the road that's paying you pop bangers and you want to be in the hardcore techno club because that's what you really enjoy. Like go where you actually want to go and you will have a much freer time. I also think the embodiment thing is so important. Like how often do people dance? Like I stopped dancing on my own in my house and I think that's because of stress. And I think that used to be a huge part in being me being able to be limber enough to dance in public. Like I don't have time to do that.

And I think we should be not to be like in a public. Like I don't have time to do that. And I think we should be, not to be like in a char, but we got to make more time to do that. So I have a couple more points, which is, the bag thing, get out of here. I don't want bags on my floor. Put the bags in a cloak room, like sure dance in a circle, but round bags, tripping over a bag when you're trying to like pop a squat

is one of the most annoying things in the whole world. The group that has, that's dancing in a circle around their bags and you can't, and they're taking up so much extra real estate on the dance floor because of their bags. I would take you all out back and I would administer a swift end. That's one of my pet peeves. That's one of my pet peeves. Look, I just think, I just think that, like, in the ideal world, no one would have to have a bag to dance facing other people. But if we are thinking of how do we correct for behaviors that you and I agree are corroding the enjoyment of dancing. I think the circle of bags is a useful sort of,

it has a gravitational pull, which is useful. I see the circle of bags as an archetype of a particular group. I'm like, when I say circle of bags, I'm like, you're all friends from uni. You, at least like four of you are coupled up long-term. You don't come out much and you're having a great time, but you're getting in everyone else's fucking way.

I think the DJ thing would solve the bags. I think the DJ thing would solve the bags. Inshallah, inshallah, inshallah we wouldn't need the bags, but that was actually a suggestion from a friend of mine who, Do they fit my bill? You may be the party connoisseur. I would say this particular friend of mine is the party professor. Ooh, a professor.

What's their credentials? Party professor. The credentials are, loves a party, loves a party, makes music as well. Has an appreciation for techno, but I wore him down to the point of admitting techno is not innocent. Right, not innocent in what is under the dance floor.

And also like me has a real deep and abiding love for G-Funk. And we were thinking about like the judicious application of G-Funk could make things better. But the dancing around the bags, that was his idea. It was his idea. You can tell him that I reminently disagree. I don't think techno is, I think techno is a symptom rather than a cause. I think techno has, again, it's that thing where a lot of people saw this as like a very cool genre of music, a lot of DJs, a lot of DJs skew techno, I guess it's quite male gen, like it's weirdly associated with men.

And I don't know how, like there's so many women who appreciate techno and love techno and usually are very good at it. But it's become like the bargain basement thing. And I think there's been a real drop-off in, and it's starting to get addressed, but there was a real drop off for a while in that sort of DJ who,

or at least profile of the DJs who filled that middle gap where they were making like, excite or putting together exciting mixes, remixes of popular music or different, like you said, like G-Funk, you know, all the disco stuff kind of disappeared and just became niche nights for 40 year olds. Like there was a real, you either got terrible Tiger, Tiger pop, or you got techno. Those were the two sort of, at least in London, those were the two sort of standards. Elsewhere, it was different. Like, you know, I always gone about leads and backrooms. Like, I think they've got a really healthy nightlife culture

where you can get DJs who really have invested in different genres and treat them with respect, which is so rare. But a lot of the proliferation of online DJs as well, you've got so many bad DJs around who just seem to get gigs and the more prestigious the club, the shitty clubs, like so that just lay the worst DJ. What I would also say is that I think you can love music and love partying, but not become a DJ. Yes. We've got too many.

And when you think about what you can contribute to the function, being a DJ is just one part of it, because then also, I think it's also led to a thing where nights are really, really dominated by like, like there are quite a lot of DJs and then like they've all brought their friends who are there to see their mate, right? And not necessarily there to have a dance. And I've done that a lot. I've done that a lot. I've like gone along to things to like, you know, see my friends and obviously you want

to show your friends support and that's not, that's not a bad thing, but it has ultimately meant that like one, I'm often there to listen to music that don't necessarily always enjoy myself and that's not what I would want to go and dance to. But then also two, like I know I can feel I'm kind of disinterested in making the party good. Right. Like I don't have that kind of like collective mindset of like, we're all here to make this good together.

And so I think that valuing other things than the DJ is important. I think there's a side note as well, which is like this summer has been really difficult for nights and clubs. Like I'm stopping my night for, it's going on hiatus because ticket sales are way down than they were. And I think there's, and like everyone I talk to,

they're like, no, your ticket sales are like good. Like, you know, you're selling this amount the week before. And I'm like, no, I need to, like it was selling out before every week and I needed to sell out. Like there's no point doing it if it's not got enough profit for me to pay people.

Like I have to be able to pay my staff like a fair wage, et cetera. My staff, who do I think I am? But it's a complaint that I'm hearing across the industry, at least across my contacts about nights and this drop off in attendance. And I think something is a bit shifting, at least in London, I don't know as web what it's like,

but there's a shift. These smaller nights, which do like tend to do different things. Techno always just has this audience. And again, I think it's a lot because people just go there because it's an array and it's top of the thing. And you've got like random things like Morpheus, blah, blah, blah, paying at Phonics. And everyone just goes to that whether they think they're going to enjoy it or not. And then these smaller Knights, they don't have as they might have like a really rabid engaged fan base who say they love it,

but they're not going to go every month. And they're not going to always have like the money to have blah, blah, blah, like people dropping in now. So you have they have less of a lifespan, which is why so many of the nights I love and cherish have ended. And I always wondered why I was like, why everyone seemed to be having the best time that that was the best thing. And it's now having run it myself for like three years, I can see why there just isn't that for some reason, there just isn't that level of like ongoing support, whereas the big, giant techno nights can really hoover that up. And I think if people, you know, when I think if people were more likely to go to do

what they actually want to do, rather than they thought what they thought was cool, and where should be cool, you'd have a lot more lifespan in those in those things. Also venues is a massive thing. I really believe the perfect venue is one that has a bar upstairs. And also I wanna hear what your perfect venue is. Bar upstairs that's sort of like open

in mid-evening, cocktail bar kind of vibes and downstairs like a raucous club. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a particular venue in Stoke Newington which was like that and you had the sweatiest, bettiest dance floor. Yeah. And it was great. It was great.

Like the DJ wasn't necessarily in a corner but this was kind of pre-Penopticon times. And it felt like, yeah, you would dance with strangers. I made friends on the dance floor. And that's the thing is that like, the last time I made a friend on the dance floor, by which I mean like the someone who at first I've like encountered on the dance floor

and like was probably like 2017. I would say my friends make friends at the dance floor all the time though. So is it also a case of like, you've now got an entrenched friendship group and you tend to be with them? That is also a thing. I think that also part of it is,

I won't necessarily put myself right in the middle of it anymore because I don't want to get filmed and I don't want to be first name, surname. Yeah. I mean, I experienced it at one of the Navarre Christmas parties where like people would show up and then you could feel them like looking at you when you were dancing and here, like, like, I mean, you know, I experienced it at one of the Navarra Christmas parties where like, people would show up and then you could feel them like looking at you when you were dancing and I was like, oh, and then like, I was feeling a little bit overwhelmed. So I was like, I'm just going to go to the, go to the toilet and have a wee and like a breathe and like, I went into the toilet and I locked the door and the next thing I could

hear is, oh my God, Ash Sarker is in there. And then I was so nervous about the volume of my pissing that I was like, oh my God, Ash Sarker is in there. And then I was so nervous about the volume of my pissing that I was like clenching every muscle and every tendon in my body. But I've got a question, which is we've been looking at this from the perspective of like, how would you organize a night, right?

And I think that that's a reflection of the fact that that's what you do. But obviously most of our listeners don't run nights and many of our listeners might actually be dealing with feeling very self-conscious about dancing in public. So if we think about this, right? Make dancing marvelous again, I can picture a poster of you, Moya,

with the Lord Kitchener moustache pointing going, your dance floor needs you. How would you advise somebody who is like, I feel really self-conscious about dancing and feel too shy to do it? I don't know, it's hard, isn't it? Because I think the first thing is dance in your home. I don't know, it's hard, isn't it? Cause I think the first thing is dancing your home. Realize what your body responds to and what you love. And the more that you have that feeling in private, the more you want to take it into public.

And then we'll come a point when it's just like, fuck it. But you have to build up that knowledge of how joy inducing it is for you in the first place. Because otherwise, how would you ever have the motivation to be like, fuck it, if you don't know what this can bring you? And again, I do think it really comes down to like, go to somewhere where they're going to play music that you love so much, you cannot resist going on the dance floor and dragging your mate. I used to go out on my own because I love dancing so much, just to like, and I didn't care because I loved the songs. And I can still do that now

if the songs on something that I adore, though I guess my relationship to music is kind of like, that's the biggest passion of my life and gets me out of all kinds of jams, but lots of other people feel like that. It's quite hard because I don't know exact, I don't have a prescriptive thing. I think it's, again, no one else can hold your hand

into this, either you can suck it up and dance. And sometimes if you're dancing really hard, people will, oh, this is also a thing. If you dance terribly, no one is gonna come up and sort of like look at you or take photos of you unless it's some awful person in fabric who's you know putting it in a tip whatever but no one is going to come up and film you in fact the opposite they will studiously ignore you whereas if you dance really well people are going to come up and like make a deal out of it but British people are so awkward that if you're

a bad dancer everyone's going to leave you alone think about it that way if you're dancing badly everyone's going to leave you alone it doesn't matter you just people are so awkward. If you're a bad dancer, everyone's gonna leave you alone. Think about it that way. If you're dancing badly, everyone's gonna leave you alone. It doesn't matter. You just got on with your thing. If you're dancing, you know, well, then people are going to bother you more. So if you're self conscious, because you think you're a bad dancer, don't worry, everyone's gonna fuck off and leave you alone anyway. The point is that you have to focus on the joy that you get out of it and the feeling you get out of it. And it just, I don't know, do you wanna get to 80 and feel like you've never been able to let loose in a dance floor?

Is that what you want for yourself? Cause no one can handhold you out of that. I will also, I think it's important to remember that a bit of embarrassment won't kill you. And I think that one of the reasons why shame and embarrassment has such a disciplining effect on us is because we also overinflate it. It's like, well, you might do some things that are embarrassing sometimes, but like, you won't die.

Like, one of the most fun things that I've, one of the most fun nights I had recently was like, I was completely fucking munted, right? So this was after the Spurs victory parade. So that was, that was where I began my day. Right. So you can imagine where I ended up through the night. And I remember at one point I was having loads of loads of fun. I was dancing with some friends and I did a slot drop and I just couldn't get back up. I was like, well, I guess I'm just out here now. Like, I'm so like I smashed and also like tired about like my legs were like

not wanting to do the back up thing and I was like, ah, I had to do that really, the ungraceful, graceless, shall we say, clamber back up. I could remember that in a way which is like, oh my God, I made such a fool of myself. Oh my God, what are you doing? I was like, no, I just, I've had a really, really fun day. And I was, you know, I'm not saying you have to get mashed. I'm saying on this occasion, I happen to be mashed and I also have no regrets about it. And yet it was a bit embarrassing, but also like good things happen when people take the risk of being a bit embarrassed.

Yeah. Some good things. Also, the other thing is even if you are embarrassed, that helps. Sometimes I've been embarrassed by things, by taking a risk, by rejection. And you know what the best thing was? Afterwards, I realized, as you say, it did not kill me. That was kind of the most relieving thing of all, realizing it wasn't going to kill me. What a nice thing. Shall we talk about someone who's got a problem that might kill them. Horrible segue. What an awful thing to say. Really awful segue. This our regular segment. I'm in big trouble and if you're in big trouble, if you have a dilemma,

large, medium, small, medium, molecular, email us atispeakatnavaramedia.com. That's ifispeakatnavaramedia.com. Do you want to read this? I will read it. Ready? Mm-hmm. Hi, gorgeous gals. Love the pod. My pal recently suggested a great discussion point of resentment and anger, which has been incredibly helpful for my therapist.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you taking Dilemma's Your Friend Sends to the Pod to your therapist? Need to know more about that. And inspired me to send in a plea for advice of my own. Noted here, this person has a therapist. So we're not suggesting that. Okay.

Had a different therapist. I have been dating someone for six months now. I'm a cis woman, he's a cis man, both mid-twenties. It's going really well, but I had a previous relationship that ended a year prior to meeting him, which to be honest, had completely fucked me up. Previous relationship was with an older guy and we worked together.

Classic hospitality situation where he was hot in context. And when I moved into a different workspace, it became clear he was perhaps not the one. But by the time I realised and my friends and family intervened we were already in a committed and cohabiting relationship. Previous boyfriend, let's call him ex, didn't really have any friends and love bomb is an understatement. We moved in together after less than a year. It turned incredibly toxic towards the end, something I'm working through in therapy. My issue is that I love my new boyfriend in many ways because of how different this relationship is. We met through friends, he's incredibly social, he adores his found family. He's

a busy man because of how much he values these friendships, which has inspired me to do the same. And I feel this is a shared value, which is going to form a fantastic relationship. My worry is I'm too used to being in a codependent, dare I say, emotionally abusive situation where I provided a friend, girlfriend, social life and more to a guy. When I met my new boyfriend, let's call him Z, his active social life and lack of dependence on me

was one of the things that drew me to him. I am also usually an incredibly social gal who prioritizes her friends and independence and fiercely wants to maintain this, especially after a few years of being actively isolated from these support networks. My question is, how do I navigate the rejection I can't help but feel when he isn't

unhealthily obsessed with me? I hate that I feel this way because he's incredibly important, important, what the hell, he's incredibly supportive, very emotionally intelligent, and has tried to talk it through with me. But I find this really tricky to discuss

as I'm still processing parts of my relationship with X and I'm a classic avoidant hun. I hate that my previous relationship is haunting the narrative, and I want to move on without dragging the ghosts of relationships passed with me. How can I chill the fuck out and enjoy what I have, which is the relationship dynamic I've always wanted, without getting Aggie every time he doesn't centre his world around me? I want to be a good partner to someone who really deserves it and it scares me

I may be repeating patterns of my only experience which I want to depart from. Love a much embarrassed social special one who wants a summer of love without ghosts of shitheads bloody ruining it. Right. Ooh. Okay, you are an avoidant hun speaking to two avoidant huns. So we know, we understand. What I'd say is that I think that you have a problem which you haven't explicitly outlined here, which is it sounds to me like you really don't trust yourself and you don't trust your own judgment and you don't trust your own ability

to keep yourself safe and healthy. And I wonder if that's because, you know, your friends and family intervened in a previous relationship, you know, you still have a kind of emotional and psychological scaffolding around you, which includes a therapist. And I'm not saying that that's bad,

like, you know, it's very, very good, but I think that that's maybe a part of your squirreliness here. Like you, you, you sound a bit squirrely to me because when I, when I hear this, I go, all right, so you've had a year in between your last relationship and this new one, um, you're attracted to this person who's very different from your previous partner. You have insight and awareness into how your previous relationship has planted some seeds of insecurity or has trained certain responses to certain stimuli and And I'm like, yeah, cool. Like that's, I think, the best

you can do. Like the next thing that you can add to the mix is time. Time and practicing different behaviors and different responses and different thought patterns. You can't not have thoughts. You can change how you respond to those thoughts. And it sort of sounds to me that you're already doing that. There is just, I think, a bit of a lack of trust in yourself. And I wonder if that is a legacy from the previous relationship, which is because it was in your words, co-dependent and, you know, perhaps emotionally abusive, that you're so worried that you're going to do it again. So even though you're in a new relationship which is completely different, or at least you say it's completely different, that you're constantly worried that history is going to

repeat itself. So I think there's something there about trust in your own judgment, trust in your own perception, trust in your own ability to embrace being in a different situation. And I think that that's an important thing that everybody has to straddle, which is an awareness of previous mistakes, insight into how those mistakes affect you. But you also need a bit of faith in yourself that you can be different and do things differently. And it's that faith in yourself, which seems to me to be a missing ingredient. What do you think, Moira?

I think there's some interesting stuff going on here. I think there's some things not being said. And I think we're gonna come back to this word that we love to come back to, which is shame. I think there is a lot of shame running through this. And I think the shame is something that you haven't said. And I think, just reading this, the thing you haven't said is how you're reacting

to the feeling of rejection. And I think you've done something like, you know, stonewalled him when you feel rejected, or you've had some sort of like mini argument when you feel rejected, or you've sent him a load of texts, you've done something that makes you feel very embarrassed about how you're handling it. Because if you just felt rejected, this wouldn't be an issue,

because you'd be processing that feeling of rejection on your own, you've got this therapist, you've got all that. I think it's something to do with how you're reacting when you feel rejected. And because you've written here, you're it's something to do with how you're reacting when you feel rejected. And because you've written here, you're embarrassed, right? You're embarrassed, why are you embarrassed?

What are you embarrassed about? You're embarrassed about these feelings. I think you're embarrassed that you got into that past relationship. I think you're trying to erase that that past relationship happened and you're frustrated that it still exists both in your memory

and also that it's existing in your current relationship. That will always happen. Every relationship we have is going to impact in some way on our other relationships. Whether it's bad, whether it's good, that will happen, right? It sounds to me from this letter, and I could be completely speculating

that you are someone who doesn't like mess, can't seem to understand how you ended up in a messy situation with some other guy. I think there's a lot of shame there. I think you feel, how did I do this? Like my family and friends had to intervene. Like Ash says, you know, there's a bit of mistrust now in your own judgment.

I think probably before this, you'd always really trusted your gut initiative. Otherwise, you know, that's how I see you ending up cohabiting with someone after less than a year and in context. Sounds like you'd probably really relied on that and you've had the rug pulled under you. And now that you're questioning it. But I think most of all, you're probably lashing out, it feels like you're lashing out, in some way when you feel rejected by this guy, even though he's not rejecting you, in some way that is embarrassing you

to the point where you can't even say it in the email, what your reaction is. It might not even be that bad, but the fact that you feel out of control about these feelings and feel out of control about the reaction, that you can't even tell us what it is and you didn't want to.

I noticed, I think that's so obvious that you haven't said what exactly you're doing. And that you've left that out. I think that that tells you that there's, there's really the out of control feeling really bothers you, the feeling that you might not be able to just like immediately one year after this other relationship ended or rather one year in six months, be over it, be done, move on, be able to have a clean slate, you know? What I would say is, first of all, forgive yourself, forgive yourself for being in this other relationship, forgive yourself for being bamboozled, forgive yourself for still feeling things about that relationship.

You can be on your own for a year and then get into a relationship and you realize a lot of stuff has not been dealt with because these things are relational, right? Something that may have come up in a previous relationship. I can lie dormant for a year if I'm not in romantic contact with someone else. And then as soon as I do, those things get triggered. They will come up. What is happening is those things are being triggered, they will come up. What is happening is those things are being triggered, they're coming up, you are

dealing with them. Okay, and there might have been a couple of occasions where, you know, you felt rejected, and it's come up, and you're like, ah, my reaction to this isn't exactly what I wanted. And it felt really bad, and like a bit messy. And now he's had to calm me down. And usually I'm the person who does the calming down. When you get in a relationship with someone who's actually quite good for you, exposes all the stuff you have to work on, that is okay.

That is fine. That is a safe place to work on those things. You say in the other relationship, you were so used to being everything. You were probably the emotional stability, the support. Again, avoidant huns, we love this. Because when we're in a relationship with someone who's way messier than us

or has way more problems than us, we don't have to A, work on ourselves and we can just provide all that stuff. And they're a little bit at arm's length in some ways, right? But when you get in a relationship with someone who's got their shit more on lock and is probably in a more emotionally healthy place,

that's when the mirror comes in and you have to like look at yourself and look at what's going on with you and all the things that you actually have to work on. And the main thing is you're working on them. You have to be patient with yourself. You have to be kind to yourself. And if it is a case of, you know, when you're feeling this rejection, you are doing something in reaction to that, that's the only thing that you can actually deal with. Like you can say, okay, I feel rejected. I'm not going to send that text right now. I'm not going to do this thing,

which is maybe like give him the silent treatment for a day and then have to pretend I wasn't doing that. And then it feels messy and bad and childish. Those are the things you can work on. But the actual feelings you're having, you're still processing them because it's a normal amount of time to be processing them. You know what the, you know,

core component of the avoidant hun is, it's an inability to accept yourself. Yes. And that's why you run from other people. And the mess of yourself. And the mess of yourself. Like, but that's what I mean, but like it's, it's the part of you which is far from your ideal self.

Right? And so, I mean, you call it messy, but there's another word which is vulnerable. There's another word which is human. There's another word which is flawed. Right? Like, like it's interesting that like we draw for the word messy, right? As if like this is something which is uncontained, but that there are other ways to think about this part of yourself that you're unable to accept. And this might sound really, um, cliched or hokey, but it's something which Esther Perel does. And if she does it, then, um, she can do no wrong, which is sometimes she literally

gets, um, a patient that she's working with to pull up a second chair and to imagine that this part of themselves that they're struggling to accept to sitting in that chair and to initiate a conversation, and to stage it and go, well, what is this other part saying back to you? You don't necessarily have to act it out and to stage it, but like, what would happen if you wrote out a conversation between you and this other part of yourself, this vulnerable self,

which was bamboozled and taken far away from their most deeply held values. What would happen if that person could talk back? So not just be talked at and judged and told they were stupid and told they were wrong. What would happen if this person could talk back? And I think that that's really important because then that can lead you to the second thing and this is something which is within your relationship, because it's also... A relationship, and again, it's like this is contradictory, but like, so is everything in life. A relationship is a combination for both taking responsibility for yourself

and also sharing stuff with the other person, right? And it's always both, it's never just one or the other. And this next thing only works if you are... If you can have something of a conversation with yourself about your own vulnerability. Cause then the next part is when you are having a dynamic and a dynamic involves another person where he's doing something and you're experiencing it

as rejection and maybe you're having a response to it. Like Muya said, we don't know what your response to that feeling is. She says it's aggy. She says it's aggy. That gives us a clue. There's a clue there. But like, we don't know what it is.

Is that you and your boyfriend need a shared language for also him to be able to say it and not in a way that feels cruel. Hey, this other thing is in the room with us right now and I can feel it. And like me and my partner have developed many, many ways of doing this, right? Like sometimes to do with my shit, sometimes to do with his shit. And we've developed a way to do it in a way which feels like a kind invitation rather than a, ah, like you've brought your mess your, your mess, you know, your, your bin bags full of shit into the space.

Right. You guys need to develop that together. Right. Because that gives you some room and it also acceptance and condoning or complacency or permission are very different things. Accepting that something's a part of someone's story and that they are going to bring it into this shared space, which is what we call the relationship, is very different from saying, and then that's fine, and then that has to go on forever. And well, this can never change. Change often happens after you accept the thing. That's the thing that all avoidant huns need to get our fucking heads around. And I can this as advice but can I take it? No! Is that one of the things that can produce paralysis, kind of a feeling of bogged downness, you know, something can't change is often our inability to accept the thing.

Yeah. The final thing I'd say is, you mentioned ghosts so much. This sort of like external idea that there are ghosts and they're nothing to do with you in some way. They're just like things that have been foisted on you and they're haunting you and you're saying how can I chill the fuck out and enjoy what I have. These are not ghosts I'm afraid. These are part of you. They're part of your experience you, they're part of your experience. And you have to accept that and accept what happened, accept yourself. And then you will, as you put it, chill the fuck out because you will be more at peace, as Asha said, with all these different parts of yourself, rather than seeing it as the, as I put it, messy, it's the vulnerable parts. But you need to stop thinking of this as like ghosts or baggage that you have to get rid of.

These are your experiences. They're now part of your life, and they will inform other things, but they don't have to determine stuff. And the more you try and repress or completely cut them off like a limb, imagine you have an extra arm and you're trying to cut it off because it's not useful to you, you will bleed to death. because it's not useful to you. You will bleed to death. So you need to accept that these are part of you and really be patient with yourself. The one thing I would say is just like the Aggie stuff, take 10 deep breaths before you respond

when you're feeling triggered by this thing. That's the main thing, that's the reaction. But everything else, it's a process. You're in it, you're doing it, you're okay. Also, like this is gonna sound so hokey, but like I was really annoyed at my partner about something recently. And before I responded to his text and I said this to him,

and I was like, before I respond to you about this, I'm gonna have a drink of water and something to eat. And it really changed, it just really changed it. When you get pissed off, put the phone down, walk outside. I think also like, one is is me being hungry does completely change my capacity for patience and reflection. I'm a real, I experience a sense of crisis whenever I'm even a tiny bit peckish.

But I also think the second thing is that I gave myself a message, which is rather than getting into like an anger shame vortex, I feel angry, I feel ashamed of myself and then I'm angry again, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, you deserve nourishment. Like even just like a physical form of nourishment, right? Which is a form of acceptance, right? When you feed somebody, right? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's, you know, when, when you feed somebody, right, it's

a gesture of welcome. So it's an invitation or the stuff and you're doing it to yourself. And then it just meant that afterwards, I could be like, yeah, I was being unreasonable here, but also like this thing makes me think this thing. And like, I really think that's reasonable and fine. You accepting your emotions and rather than suppressing them and also taking a moment. Like that's such a good trick. That's such a- The signals you give to yourself are so important.

Yeah, otherwise then you just- And like we are animals. Splurge on your partner. You'll splurge on someone else because you need to get it out and you're trying to like regulate yourself and you're actually outsourcing the regulation to them to soothe you with the anger and everything else

and you haven't thought about it. Whereas if you're feeding yourself and having some water, you're accepting yourself, you're sitting with the emotion, and then you can talk to them properly. Anyway. Yeah, I think sometimes it's useful to visualize these parts of yourself as almost like a different entity, right?

Like, you know, it's an animal or it's a different person. And you go, what would you do to this like, er, animal? To cull, yes, to soothe it, exactly. To soothe it. How would you soothe it? You would stroke it, you would, like, all of these things. We'd give it a little cuddle and you'd say,

you're okay, you're okay. Yeah. Okay, right, we need to wrap this up. Yeah, before it descends into... Blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, but before we wrap up, is there time for Chal, our producer, to share with us her thoughts about Make Dancing Marvelous again?

Yeah, Chal was in text. Chal is a lover and a maker of music, an appreciator of dance floors. Also a music journalist. An apologist for techno. While Chal's texting, can I just plug my last two heated parties until we go on hiatus? 22nd of August, pre-Karney warm-up, then UMO team. And then to lead us out, to end the heated reign of terror until maybe 2026, maybe 2027, I don't know, until I feel like people want it back. Then we're doing a massive goodbye,

unstable Hotties party in Tottenham on the 12th of September. Ah, okay, I've really got no excuse. No, but I think you'd like the Carney one more than the Tottenham one, because the Tottenham one is gonna be like, that's our pop remixes, that's our 150 BPM remix of Panic at the Disco.

Whereas the Carney one is obviously right up your street. But you'd mind my light bulbs. You might like my light bulbs. I like everything. All right, shall I share with you the words from Chow? Yes, Chow, what do you think about dancing? One, there has been some extreme anti-techno bias in this conversation.

She would like that noted. Moja is right, no bags on the dance floor. Weee! Grow up! Weee! Bring back Despacio, did you ever go to Despacio? Big, beautiful sound system with DJs totally hidden, everyone facing each other on the dance floor.

Is it Despacio or Dispacio? I think that bags on the dance floor is a transitional measure. It's a transitional measure. I don't want them there forever. Anyway, this has been If I Speak. Make dancing marvelous again. I've been Ash Zarka. I'm Moola Ilaqlai. Bye.

Bye. Bye!