If I Were You - 176: Fantasy (w/Emily Gordon!)

Episode Date: September 28, 2015

Former therapist, current writer/comedy producer Emily Gordon joins us to discuss breaking up, farting, and her new book, "Super You!"This episode is brought to you by DollarShaveClub, and CreditKarma.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.

This is a headgum podcast. I was hoping you could double me to kind of help. I'm stuck in the first world Scotry's Hell. That was owls. Owls. Owls. Owls. You guys want to take guesses on how to spell owls? No. Okay, because you're halfway there. Emily Gordon. Hi.

Let me introduce you. Right off the bat. That was a great theme song. I really liked it a lot. It sounds like deep owls. It was very deep owls. Where is that guy from? Because how do I get that accent? Oddly enough, he just says he's from the UK. The Netherlands.

He has to be from the Netherlands. Have you guys heard Speak the Hungarian rapper? No. Well, everybody at home, listen to this. If you guys afterwards, you're going to have to Google that. Speak the Hungarian. It's a rapper who's Hungarian in his backing musical group, and they do a song about war where he references 9-Eleven, Tupac, a million things,

and it is just a treasure. It is a treasure to behold. This guy sounds better than that. This guy's awesome. This guy's owls. A-U-W-S. That is not how I was installed it. A-U-W-S. Yeah. No E either.

I pronounce like house without the H, he says. That's perfect. Oh, he's on YouTube. Owls94 and SoundCloud. OwlsAlgabori. Owls90, he couldn't just get owls on YouTube? I guess not. Spelled like that?

That was already taken? Yeah. That's insane. I want to watch him rap. I want to see what his face looks like. Yeah, we will go to a concert. Well, you can if you go to his YouTube channel. I will.

Or what if we go to the UK? What if we go to a show? No. Should we just go to the UK right now? Wherever he recorded that, like a dingy basement somewhere. I feel like we should have that sound effect board where we can like us like walking, getting into our car in the sound of an airplane. Yeah.

That's the song. Hi, we're in the UK now. Knock, knock, knock. House? Are you in the house? Is house in the house? It's perfect. That's what he'll say when he's on stage.

Oh, that's a great point. Yeah. Maybe he's publicist. House, if you're listening, at the very least, Emily wants to be your publicist. No, you guys are coming with me or I'm not doing it. It's a trifecta. So, Emily, how do our fans know you? Or maybe if they don't, who are you?

Maybe. Why are you here? Why am I here? I am a writer and a stand-up producer. Those are my main two jams. The big two. I produced a show called The Meltdown with Jonah and Camille. Ever heard of it?

It's a live stand-up show in LA that's also a TV series for Comedy Central. We've done two seasons so far. And I'm in that because we show backstage, so that's fun for me. That's cool. And then I write a bunch of stuff all over the internet. Yeah. Yeah. And just wrote a book.

Whoa. Which is on the internet now. Yeah. Well, no, not the whole thing. But you can order it. Yes, it's available for pre-order now. It'll be out in two days. What's the deal with the book?

The book is like a self-help guide. That's funny, but not like a joke self-help guide. It actually is like a genuine self-help guide. But it is also mixed with terrible stories from my childhood and my teenage years and my now years. All of my years, essentially. All of the years. Because there's a lot to go around.

So it's like half-memoir, half-self-help, and it's called Super Year. What was the worst year you had? Oh, my God. What year? So many. Yeah, the most terrible. What was the worst year? I think there were some...

You don't have to go into any detail other than just the year. I think maybe middle school years were pretty rough in general. And then early 20s years, not so great. Yeah, there were a couple in there that were not amazing. But middle school and then high school, I started figuring stuff out a little bit. And I was super angry, but I had become a goth kid. So then I was like, I had a racket going. But before I figured that out, I was just this amorphous blob that was miserable all the time.

So that's pretty bad. Did you have braces? No, I didn't have braces, but I was overweight and I was just like a sad little creature. When you were in eighth grade, I had braces, acne, and I was way too thin. Just like not comfortable in any facet of anything. I still showered with a bathing suit on. I was just... What?

Like in weird science. I showered with a bathing suit on until I was like 14. Why? At your home or at school? At my house. You were a never-nude. I was. Well, I had...

There were so many people in my family and there were no locks on any of the bathrooms. Oh. So it was like... But I mean, I still as my family could have been naked. I don't know why. I was just... Is it just an Israeli thing? Because my family was like, if I'm showering, my mom's coming in, taking the laundry out.

Is that weird or is that normal? Yeah, that's weird. That's weird? Yeah, a little bit. Oh, that's weird? Yeah, you might be so... Brothers walking in, peeing while I'm taking a... I don't think it's showered.

I mean, I don't think that's that... I had sisters. So... That's weird. The gender. I had like all brothers. I think that's totally normal. In and out.

I could walk in while my brother's showering. But like, if the shower was going, I never knew who was in there. So you didn't want to walk in? I wasn't trying to walk in on my sisters in the shower. I didn't want that confusing thing happening. No, I didn't want that on my brain for the rest of my life. Would you see something good? Oh, God.

You don't want that? No. I had a roommate, a female roommate once, and she would use the toilet while I was in the shower. Like, she would poop while I was showering. Oh, no! Yeah. That's a different level of intimate.

I wouldn't be into that because it would smell. You can smell it! Yeah. Actually, that person just got married. So I pulled up a photo of that action happening because my third roommate, the door was open so he like took a photo because he was having such a fun time. She also took a shit with the door open. Yeah.

It was like some, I don't know. Who is this person? Well, I did that too. I don't know. It was college. It was camp. It was everything was open. Yeah.

I can say that, but also I never did that. So it's kind of weird. I didn't do that. I still like, I'm married now and like we have a strict like no, no pinging in front of each other. None of that stuff. I guess I would pee in front of my, but like pooping in front of somebody, it's like, I want to still be attracted to that person.

Exactly. That's why we do it. That's why we don't even pee in front of each other because like we want to keep the magic a little bit of the magic alive. As much as possible. I respect that a lot. And some people can still do that while peeing in front of each other. I don't think that my husband and I can.

We're done. I've had girlfriends in the past who have like, we've pooped in front of each other and like, it really ruins it a little bit. Yeah. You don't want to have sex with somebody. You just watched shit. Just come out of their buttholes. Yeah.

I don't even put deodorant on in front of my husband. I'm like, yeah, we like keep it like, yeah. This is sort of an intimate video, but it's kind of, it's funny, right? I mean, you, I mean, you're not taking a shower right there. You, I think I was taking a, or I was taking a bath or I crouched down like I was taking a bath. A shame bath. It looks like you're taking a shower.

I was, I mean, I was ashamed. It's a very good booty tooch you've got going. You really, you pop that hip up so it looks like it's a nice shape. You've created good angles for yourself in that photo. It hurts. She could do better. Yeah. But you did great.

So what, why did you, what, what gives you the right to write a self-help book? Where do you get off? Good. Where do I get off? You're a comedy producer. I, before I did any of this stuff, I, I have a master's in couples and family therapy and I would say practicing therapist for about six and a half years. So that's the, that's the real thing.

That's the real thing. Practicing masters. You learned. Oh, I learned. You know. You are a master. I got licensed. I don't know that I'm a master.

You are. Yeah. I think you are the master as it is, as it stands right now. Uh-oh. Not good. So Jake and I have an advice podcast. We don't have any of that stuff. We don't have credentials.

Yeah. We don't have experience. All we have is- You guys should probably stop then. Right. Is it, is this illegal? I have a BFA. Our first question is, is this illegal?

What do you think? Am I under arrest? I think, and that's the thing, like, I don't even know that I think what separates therapists, like people are always asking me for my advice, but I, most of my advice comes from just me being a person in the world and going, having gone through a bunch of bullshit. And then so I, for that, you're completely, totally qualified. Where'd you got that? And then I also have some book learning on top of that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Book learning to supplement the real life learners. Yeah. That's where it's at. That's the key. We usually get questions that are a little lighthearted, and then we're like, maybe we should choose some real questions that we wouldn't answer.

And we want to just make sure that you don't have fun on the podcast. Yeah. I'm so scared right now. They're not that dark, but it's just stuff they're like, oh, I don't know how I would answer that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So we've got a professional in our midst. I feel like we should- And I will say, not practicing now. Everybody needs to be aware of that. Is that a thing, though? Like, are you out of practice? Do you get rusty with your advice skills? I probably am rusty with, like, sitting down across from a person and being like, getting

them to, like, tell me about their problems, but I've been, that's when I started freelance writing, I was only writing, like, mental health stuff and, like, advice columns and stuff like that. So that's how I, to my parents, like, hey, you remember that master's degree I spent all my time and all my money on? This is what I'm using it for. I have an advice column on Tumblr. But it's a good advice column.

I read it sometimes. Oh, thank you. I wouldn't have thought of that. I appreciate it. What is the URL? That one's called EmilyVGordon.tumblr.com and the Tumblr is called Do You Think You're Pretty? Oh, that's good.

Which is what a, the origin story of that is that I was in middle school waiting outside for my parents to pick me up along with one of the most popular girls in my middle school. She stared at me. What was her name? Did she have a cool name? I'm not going to say her name. Let's say it was, like, Bethany. Oh, classic.

Yeah. She had, like, mall bangs because this was the 80s, gorgeous, but also, like, trashy kind of because it's North Carolina. And she stared at me for, like, 30 seconds and then went, do you think you're pretty? And I was like, oh, I don't, my brain, like, melted out of my ears. Oh, what can you say to that? There's no good answer. I'm still trying to figure out that answer.

And it stuck with me for how, with all of these years, what do I mean thing to say? I wonder if she remembers saying it. No way. She doesn't even slightly remember saying it. That's the worst part. I wonder what she's doing now. Oh, I know what she's doing now. That's not great.

She's the CFO of a fortune 500. She's not super happy. I don't, I try not to take joy from that, but every once in a while I do. You should comment that on her Facebook page someday. Do you think you're pretty? Yeah. Oh, God. Anyway, that's where the name of my Tumblr comes from.

That's awesome. Are you glad in retrospect that somebody did that to you one day? Sure. All these things. It's all origin story stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's all makes you who you are. It's beautiful. So this is a real email from a real person. We should give, like you said, you didn't want to out that person. Do you have a fake name to give this person just to preserve? Ronaldo. She was itching. I'm really great.

Soccer player. Ronaldo writes, Hey guys, I've been dating this amazing girl for the last six months. We met on Tinder, thanks Jake, and have been inseparable ever since. She came at just the right time as I had a breakup just a few months before I met her. And I guess you'd have to call her, quote unquote, the rebound. But it wasn't just about sex or anything. I really do love her. She's smart, funny, dorky, and the sweetest girl I've ever met.

Everyone loves us as a couple because we're so similar and it really seems like we belong together. Now here's the problem. She's a lion. I've been feeling unsatisfied for a while now. I don't love her like I used to. She's one of my best friends and I know that I love her, but I don't think that I'm in love with her.

We're young, so this was always meant to be just a fling. She really depends on me, so I'm afraid of what will happen if I break up with her. She's crazy in love with me and that's the problem. She has a history of depression and hurting herself, and I could never forgive her if she hurt herself because of me. She lives with her dad and I live with my parents. She doesn't have a good thing going at home. Her parents are divorced and her dad can be a prick and her stepmom and her step sister

can be worse. She doesn't go to college and just goes to work. She's had a really rough life. She's almost lived in poverty for most of her life. I love her so much and I hate feeling this way. Of course, I want us to stay friends, but I know that never happens. I just want out of this relationship, but it just makes me feel like a piece of shit. It might just be that this is not the right time, but I'm not sure if it will ever be

the right time. I just want to be a good guy. Please, please, please help me, love Rinaldo. Whoo! A lot of stuff. Split personality, I think. I feel like there were three distinct parts to this. The first part was, amazing girl.

I love her so much. The second part was, I do not like this girl. The third part was this girl's sob story. Yeah. Oh, God. And I will say that the things that men do because they want to be nice guys are often some of the most damaging things you can do to women. Oh, interesting, for example.

I want to be a good guy and I want to say, I've got to be the nicest guy and I don't want to hurt her, but in not hurting her, you're with someone you actively resent and that hurts someone way worse. That's way more damaging. I also think there's some sort of weird complex that a guy, or maybe just people in general, but someone has to be like, I am your source of happiness, you are nothing without me. So if I go away, your world crumbles and you die, you're a little baby. That's not true.

Yeah. This girl existed and did fine up until six months ago when they met and now that you're in a bad relationship, you think, what? Do you think this is somehow good for her mental health that you're with her when you actively don't want to be with her and I'm sure she can feel that and kind of sense that? So all the things she doesn't have going for her, like her poverty and work situation, now she also has a boyfriend who dislikes her. He doesn't dislike her though.

He's just, you know, like he's no longer in, he loves her, but he's not in love with her. He's staying with her out of pity. It's not love. God, you're good. You're good. You're good. Take the words right out of my mouth. You're very good.

I don't love women. That's the highest compliment at all. When guys put ladies on pedestals and are like, well, this little creature, I've got to take care of her and she doesn't have anything without, she'll be fine. I promise you. I don't know this girl. But you don't think she'll be sad when it happens? She'll be sad.

But you know what? She can handle sadness. She's a grown ass woman. Whoa. Grown ass ladies can handle being sad for a little bit. You staying with someone because you're afraid that they'll be bummed when you break up with them is not enough of a reason to stay with them. It's not fair to her.

Not fair to you. She'll be bummed. Anybody who gets dumped, anybody who goes through a breakup will be bummed. It's okay to be bummed and then you can kind of bounce back from it and you can kind of learn from it and move on. She's grown up enough to do that. I don't know her, but if she's like every other human on the planet, she's grown up enough to do that.

But I feel like this is a very common thing is I don't want to break up because I'm going to quote unquote be the bad person. I don't want to be like, oh, I'm hurting this thing that I care about a lot. And then you break up with them. And then you can't console them. Can you? You can't be the one to console them. So then do you have to be like a meanie and be like, sorry, we're broken up.

Go find help somewhere else. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. I mean, that's what breakups are. Like who, why on earth do you feel the need to be the sun and moon and stars for someone? Like this happens all the time. Breakups happen all the time for the most part.

Every relationship you're in will end up ending and just because, I mean, not mine, of course, I'm married very heavily. But he is my sun, moon and stars and I love it forever. And but I just like, why are you pity like pity staying with her? Like she's a tiny little fragile chick that can't handle. So why is he? What's the answer to that? Because I also feel like I feel like a lot of guys want to be that for women.

They want to be. I think it comes from a good place, but it's a wonderful place. It's totally misinformed. Yes. I had a girl the first time this happened. I was like trying to break up with someone, but I was like dragging my feet. I was like, I don't want to be an asshole. I we were together for a long time.

And one day she just like called me out on it. She's like, if you want to break up with me, do it. I can handle it. I know you think that I can. Yeah, she was really cool. And then you're like, now I don't want to. And I was like, because that was so cool. She basically just she was just like, do it.

You know, I dare you like the bad guy in a movie. She's been like, pull the trigger. Yeah, point the gun at it. Yes, exactly. And it was like, I didn't have this. It wasn't her that didn't have the strength to survive the breakup. It was me that didn't have the strength to do it. To inflict any kind of harm on anyone.

But that's part of what being in life is, is that sometimes you're the one hurting another person and you don't someone you care about. And sometimes you're the one being hurt by someone that you care about. Right. It's just how the world works. And it's it's a bummer. But you're like, I think guys are often given this message that they're supposed to be like a prince to the woman that they're dating a protector.

And so part of what they're protecting the woman from is their feelings, right? Which aren't love. They're like, I have to protect her from the fact that I don't like her. Like that's not that's not part of the deal. Like she she can handle that what she can't handle. And it's ultimately more helpful towards everybody's like personal growth. Yeah. To sort of you know what Ingrid Mickelson says?

Of course, we all know what Ingrid Michael every broken heart in the world still beats. It's pretty beautiful lyric. And she's you're singing. It's pretty cool. Yeah. And you're not like a heartless creature if you break up with someone because you don't want to be with them. You're it's to me.

It's more heartless to stay with someone that you don't want to be with. I just I mean, ultimately how many comes out? Your advice Tumblr has people can ask you questions. Yes. How many questions are about I don't I breaking up as hard. And I don't know how to do it. Almost almost almost a lot of them. Yeah, it's a common thing.

Everybody wants permission from someone else to do a breakup because they want to be absolved of feeling like a bad guy and bad girl. That is genderless. Like everybody wants to be absolved of feeling like a bad person. But it doesn't make you a bad person to to hurt someone every if you're doing it for the right reasons. Do you know what I mean? Like that sounds bad.

Like is it almost like the sadness you're giving them isn't necessarily negative? Yeah, like yeah, you're giving them a new emotion. Sadness and you've given them happiness. And now you can give them anger. And it's just part of all being human relationships change. That's what they do. Like and not all of them are positive changes, but they end up if it's you don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you.

Like right if you if this if this girl found out like, hey, your boyfriend is with you because he thinks you can't handle being alone. Do you want to be with him? Right. Oh, no, I don't. Let's send her that email. Oh, God, just forward it to her. We just start being vigilante superheroes like we don't need to be cruel. No need to be cruel.

But we do need to be cool. Yeah, be cool. Not cruel. It's a good slogan, actually. I wonder how else can you turn that into a song house? If you're out the house there, do you think this is a completely metaphorical, not really metaphorical, but a question that can't be answered of all the breakups in America this year?

What percentage was the is the guy breaking up with the girl and the girl breaking up? That's a good question. Do you think it's 50 50? I think it is, right? I don't know. Because that question could have just come from a girl, probably close. But, you know, I mean, it can be if it's an even amount of people. Now, let's say what are the chances?

What are the 40 to whatever the other of that is? Yeah. But, you know, of your the questions you receive, you're not getting them mostly from dudes or dudettes. I'm getting it's a pretty equal split. And sometimes I don't even know, which I think is awesome, too, because I find when I'm reading the questions and there's no gender mention, I'll put on it, whatever I'm thinking, then I have to back away and be like,

oh, this could be a dude or a lady. I have no concept. Could be straight relationship. Could be gay when I have no, I have no way of knowing. Well, I got one from a lady for sure. Let's do this. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right. We did pretty well in the first one.

Yeah, I was going to nail that. Uh, do you have a fake lady name? Chris, Ronaldo. Christella. What? Christella. Christella's good. Yeah, like, Christella.

Hey, guys, so I'm in quite the predicament. My boyfriend and I have been dating for about a month now. And at first I was sort of sexually attracted to him, but now I'm becoming grossed out by him. For example, his neck hair really freaks me out and his moobs make me think that I'm cuddling with an overweight 12 year old. Am I just being a man boobs? Got it. Am I just being a shallow piece of shit?

He has a great personality, but I can't see myself ever being with him sexually, which is kind of a big deal for him. And it's really becoming harder to put off sex. Should I break up with him? I think he should be with someone who can willingly be with him sexually. If so, what should I tell him? My reason is I think I might be gay, so I could just tell him that.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again with a turn twisty turnies. Some of these are all written by M. Night Shyamalan. Wow. Also, the year is sixteen hundred. Is it shallow? It's a monster. Is it shallow to break up with someone because you're not sexually attracted to them? I don't think so. I think it's also if it's been a month to me,

that's not a very long period of time. I think you don't really need to construct a super thought out reason. If it's only been a month, I feel like you just say, hey, this isn't working out for me. I don't think it's necessary to look a human being in the eye and be like, I'm not I'm breaking up with you because your man boobs make me feel disgusted. Yeah, like there's no reason.

Yeah, physical attraction or your physical appearance isn't something you can really work on. I guess a little bit. Yeah. But I wouldn't. I don't want an exit interview where somebody tells me I'm ugly. Exactly. Yeah. And there's somebody who will be attracted to this guy. And I'm I'm also wondering were you sexually attracted to him at first

and somehow it went away? She said sort of. So it seemed like it was she was giving a try and then it tipped in the know. And I feel like sometimes when you're with someone who has a great personality, you'll start to like love the things about them that maybe would have grossed you out before and other people. Yeah. But that also goes the other way that once you notice something. Oh, yeah. Here's what I found.

I've done in relationships. I'm with a guy. I kind of I can tell it's not like it's not great. It's not right. There's some names. Just what's the guy? Just just. OK, great. But all though. And it's not going right. And then I'll find something like in a very Seinfeldian manner.

Yeah. And be like, Crystal, like, just like, that's the thing. Yeah. Back here. Well, fuck that shit. I can't get back here. And then that becomes the world is like that guy's back here. When really it's about like, we're just not compatible. I might be gay. There's a bunch of things going on. Yeah. But I say it's about that because it's the easiest, most concrete thing.

Right. Something that you can latch on to and explain to your friends. Exactly. And it's like, he has too much neck hair. He has man boobs. I there was a guy I dated that thought it was OK to just fart. It like and like at like cocktail parties, like did not like loudly and like thought it was just like a cool fun thing to do. And I was like, this dude sounds awesome.

And it was not just that. It was that we were incompatible in a million different ways. But it's so much funnier and so much better to tell your friends like what this guy fucking farted at every and thought it was fine to fart in like business meetings. But it's not really about that year, actually. Yeah, I will fart. I will fart. Yeah, I'm a farter. You're a farter.

Do you fart in front of your husband? We don't. Isn't that crazy? No farting either. No farting. That's really it is a little nuts. You're holding it in a lot. We excuse ourselves. We don't need to get super into it and all the details. But yeah, it's just like one of us will excuse ourselves and then be like,

I'm going to go to the bathroom and that's probably what's going on. Do you wish the the fart gates were open? No, I'm fine with that. You're fine with that. Yeah, yeah. And I think that is different for everybody. And so I have no qualms with people that do fart in couples. I do.

The way I've always done it is like four gates, halfway, halfway open. A jar. If I farted as much as I always fart in front of like a significant. Terrifying. Yeah. They'd run. They'd run. They wouldn't run. They would first come out. They're like cute. It's like, oh, we're all tooting here.

And then like I just have like loud, smelly, wet sounding parts. Yeah. Like you don't want to have that in front of somebody. Yeah. Do the ladies reciprocate your the farting? No, I mean, nobody farts as much as I do except for you. I think that's why you guys are meant for each other. Yeah.

Amir is my soulmate and I will die alone. Like if it happens in our house, it's not like a huge deal. But like, and I was like, at some point this will probably change, but it's been like eight years now. Yeah, at this point. Yeah, I think we got it locked in. All right. Eight years makes a habit.

Right. That's what they say. The eight year itch for whatever. So you say it is not shallow to break up with someone because you're not sexually attracted to them. It's a huge part of a relationship. Yeah, absolutely. And also if you might be gay, figure that out. If you're not sexually attracted to him.

Not because he's unattractive, but because he doesn't have a vagina. Yeah, get in there. Give that a try. For sure. Do you owe somebody an excuse? What do you mean? I'm breaking up with you. Do I have to tell you why?

Why? Why are you breaking up with me? Yeah. That's what I do. I think I don't think you owe them anything. I think the the kind thing to do is to give some closure, but it's never it's really on the closure comes within you. It doesn't come from another person really.

Ultimately, we want to believe that someone is like, here's your key to the city. But really, it's like on us to kind of get the closure. But I think it's a kind thing to do, even if it's a little bit of a massaged truth. Right. But I think that's also the best way to because the danger in saying like, why are you breaking up with me?

Well, I don't really like your neck hair and I don't like your manboops. I'll go to the gym and I'll shave. Oh, yes. Like you don't want the problem to be fixable. If you're saying like, why do you break? Why are you breaking up with me? I think the best thing to do is to always be like, I'm not emotionally invested in this and I don't see myself getting there.

Right. And then what does somebody say to that? Yeah, it has to be an unfixable problem. And then it's also it helps that it fits on you. It's like, oh, it's nothing. But then that's the whole it's not you. It's me. Well, that's the cliche and you never want to say it's not you.

It's me, but there are you can put it on yourself. Yeah. But isn't everything both them and you like they're one way and you're reacting. I always especially when working with couples, you think of it's three things in the room. It's the one person, the second person, and then the relationship between them is a third thing. It's like its own.

It's like its own existence. It has like a pulse. It like has ways that it works like it's a different love that visual. Yeah. And so you you can you have two people, but you also have this thing they created. It's almost like a baby that they've made, which is how they relate to each other shadow figure in the back.

So I think it is always of both people in some ways. Right. But that doesn't mean it's like when you get 40% like an insurance after an accident, like you have 40% of the blame and you have 60%. Like ultimately those numbers don't matter. But yeah, it's like the point is this isn't going to work. Like that's always like this isn't going to work. I'm sorry.

That's the closure. Yeah. Yeah. Got to go. You don't have to know exactly why it just is. And I've definitely had those things where I've been dumped and then like just like frantically being like, I can I can face it. I can change.

I can change. Do you really want to be with someone that you're having to like beg to come back to you? That's like I've got them to come back. And then when they did, I'm like, Oh, this feels bad too. It's bad all the way. What you want is a time machine to go back to before this felt bad. That's what you want.

And you can't have that. It sucks. And you can't have a time machine breaking up is the next best thing. Sort of like a time machine to the future. Oh, like Doctor Who. You kids like Doctor Who. Yeah, totally. Doctor Whom.

All right. We're going to take a break. Just a real quick one to thank a few sponsors. But then we'll be right back if you if you promise not to leave. So we can we can we can we can borrow your brain from some more. We'll be back with more Emily right after this. But better help makes that all easy because it's online therapy designed to be convenient, flexible and suitable to your schedule.

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That's better help H E L P dot com slash if I were you check them out. Thanks better help. Thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode of our show. Wow. For years and years and years we've been ranting and raving about Squarespace because it's the best way for dummies like me and potentially you that don't necessarily know how to code or design to create a professional looking website. So if you're building an online portfolio for yourself or a loved one

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Just use that offer code if I were you to save 10% off that first purchase. Thank you, Squarespace. And we're back. All right. What a great ad that was. I like the ad. Didn't you like the ad? The ads were good.

I like that specific ad specifically. We haven't recorded it by the time I'm talking, but I'm sure it will be very good. When we have aired it this episode, it will hopefully have been recorded. Yeah. And it will have been good. Just like dead air for 90 seconds. And then we're back.

We're like, how great was that? Emily, what's your podcast? Oh, yes, I have a podcast. I didn't even mention that I have a podcast called the indoor kids. It's about video games, but it's also about basically anything that keeps you indoors. So movies, TV shows, books, board games. Yeah, board games.

We just went to a board game convention in Indiana. It was pretty fun. Yeah, you did. Yeah. It was super fun. In fact, it was just like an airplane hanger with nothing but like conference tables and then that actually sounds really dope. She had tons of people playing games all day long.

Was it in Indianapolis? Indianapolis. It's called GenCon. Super fun. Amazing. Cool. Did you record there? We ended up, no, we, I mean, we recorded from like the floor as we were walking around,

but we didn't like do like a live show there. Right. But I did get a bunch of Legend of Zelda jigsaw puzzles. Oh, shit. I do like a good jigsaw puzzle. It's great. There's nothing more if you're like an anxious human being. Oh, than doing a puzzle.

Man. It slows me down way more than like video games or anything else these days. It's like a great, it just feels like. Yeah, it's Zen. It's the equivalent of that little rake on the sand. Yeah. They're like getting a piece. Nothing feels better than getting a piece.

Oh, and having it like make that little noise. Yeah, nothing sends me out about doing a puzzle. It's so amped. All right. Get all the pieces. All right. All the corners here. We need to do the outlet.

Don't look at the box. Don't look at the box grandma. You look at me cheater. Let's do it upside down. Let's do it upside down and flip it around at the end. Snorting cocaine. You do like extreme jigsaw puzzling. Yeah.

Just doing coke the entire time. You can get a piece. Oh, yeah. But our friends Jeff and Pat have been at a bunch of episodes of your show. Yes, they have. So if you're listening and you want to hear more of Emily and some of Jeff and Pat, you can check out those episodes.

And Camille and Janie, who is my co-host. Oh, right. People have heard of that guy for the most part. Camille was in some of our videos. Yes, he was. Some of the really early videos. Back in the day. I was watching the ones that Thomas Middleditch did.

Dudes. With you guys. Yeah, because I don't know how it came up, but he was talking to me about it. Oh, he said people still come up to him. Oh, yeah. All the time and call him dudes. Oh, yeah.

It's a blessing and a curse. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love those videos, but he's like, it's been a little while. Yeah. But it's still quite popular. And so I went back and watched them and they're hilarious.

He's so funny. He's so funny. He's tremendous. I think in those scripts, we just wrote like in the second one for sure, it was like a page and a half for us. And then like one little bold sentence. Thomas improvises. Yeah, he did like auditions.

And he will. Like half an hour. It was just him in a wool sweater in a hot office doing characters laughing so hard. Because then I watched the outtakes too. I think you have outtakes up. Yeah, for the third one. Where he like doesn't know what a DVD is.

Yeah. He's so funny. And it's just us laughing. And he's just like, guys, come on. Oh, I like I love that the world is like waking up to how genius he is. Like, yes. He's so genius.

And so is Kumail. My husband, he was great in the video. Kumail's fine too, but Thomas. Yeah. You should marry Thomas. No. I would never. Could never.

Could never. I'm not into white guys. Nice. Thank you. All right, cool. In your book. Super you. Super you.

Yes. Available on Amazon. Release your inner superhero. And at your local bookstore. My hope is my mom founded a Barnes and Noble today. That's the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. That's the cool thing.

They took a picture of themselves having lunch with my book sitting between them. And it's I thought I was like. I don't know if you have this experience with your mom, but like my parents and my grandparents could never really understand like a digital. What you do like hey this video has 500,000 views and my mom would be like oh cool.

Yes. But like when there was a physical anything like there's an there was a like me and a mirror like in a USA today one time and my mom was like this you guys made it. That's true. I do feel like older people want like a tangible thing. Yeah, yeah, I mean if we had a book in a store my mom would fucking lose her shit.

Yeah, right. And then if that book is written by 1% of the people that listen to our podcast would be a huge success. But my my parents would love it so much more than this show or anything we've ever done. That's true. What was I going to say? Oh, is there an audio version of your book?

There is. There's a book. Do you read it? I do. I did. It was a very long process. How long did that take? It took me it took me four full days like and and when I got

that they sent me a bunch of the CDs, which I'm like, no, it's going to order a CD. It's like and it's over six CDs. It's nine and a half hours. That's is it a digital thing that I can download. Yes. It's also on audible as awesome. That's what people that's the key.

Yeah. Yeah, which to me because I like reading and I'm not good at like listening to books. So I keep in like, oh, yeah, yeah, you don't have to do that though. But everyone's like, no, that's the thing we love. Yeah. So it's on audible listening to podcasts.

Yeah. We all like that stuff. Exactly. And it's me and I kept being like when I was doing the reading, I was like, well, I may kind of like go off and like do a little a sides and they were like, no, you're going to read what's on the page. And I was like, but a Z's and Tina Fey and they were like,

you're not a Z's and you're not Tina Fey. And I was like, okay. So I had to read it word for word and nothing makes you feel weirder about yourself than like reading an entire thing. You have to be like editing a little bit as you're doing like, oh, shit, I should have been perfect the whole time. And you're just in a little tiny room by yourself with like a guy super far away from you going, do that again.

And you're like, oh gosh, it was a great experience. But it was like, it was a very interesting. How do I not get his job? Does this stop recording podcasts right now? Shit. You're on track. That's yeah. Gateway drugs.

All right. Cool. Good. Good. Then it's agreed. You want to answer some more questions? Let's do it. Another lady.

Her name is Cersei. Oh, really? Yeah. Nice. I actually guessed correctly. We're making a story. Yeah. So hey guys and Emily.

So my boyfriend and I are both in college and we've been dating each other for a year and a half now. We've recently started sexting and he keeps asking me to tell him my quote, naughtiest fantasy. I don't really have one. So I asked him what his was and he immediately started talking in great detail about my roommate catching us having sex and then joining us.

This makes me feel really uncomfortable because I don't like thinking about her like that. I feel like I wouldn't want my roommate and her boyfriend including me in their sexting and I'm also afraid he might have a thing for my roommate. Should I be worried and should I say something or is this just some sort of fantasy that I should let him play out? Thanks so much love Cersei.

Interesting. Yeah. I got I certainly have an opinion, but I don't want to hear what your opinion is first. I think that's a little fucked up. That's ballsy for the guy to suggest. Just immediately. I know like when I'm telling somebody my fantasy when somebody

asked my fantasy, like I know that they will want to do something to make it come true. That's why you tell someone. Right, but he's the one who brought it up. He's like, what's your fantasy? She's like, I guess I don't have one. He's like, well, mine's you and your roommate, but that's what I'm saying.

So he's saying that knowing that like he's testing the waters. Yeah, it's manipulative is what it is. So like you could I could be like, Hey, my fantasy is like you and a Princess Leia costume and that would happen. Like they would do something. That's the one on one thing. Yeah, right. But and then to then to say like it's you and Cameron Diaz

and that's like sort of unattainable and you could entertain you could talk about that, but to say it's you and your roommate is to it's manipulative. It's yeah, I would call him out. I'd be like, fuck you, but that's hard because it's like, let's talk about our inner secrets and then he says, but he took it that one is bad. I don't like that good, but he also could have been like you

and I are having sex and someone comes in and I like getting caught as a total fan. Yeah, I get all that. That's all totally fine. But when you take it to like a specific, I want it to be this person and I want it to be on a Thursday and what are you doing on Thursday? Yeah, then it's like a very specific and then you feel bad

because you're like, should, shouldn't I be more fun and shouldn't I want to do this? I think what she should do is respond. Oh, I just remember what my fantasy is. It's you and I having sex and then your roommate walks in and then the three of us bone. There it is. Like that's it.

Like I call your bluff. All right, let's do this. Who wants to go first with the two dudes to dudes and then you want to see how this feels? I'll let you know how it feels. This is how it feels. Oh, so there's no way. There's no quicker way to quell the threesome desire inside a guy.

My fantasy is to fuck somebody else entirely and you're not in the room at all. That really gets me on my favorite kind of threesome is me and two other dudes. Actually, you're not even watching. I don't wait. I want you in the closet and you also have headphones on and can hear and you can't see I want you to be a cuckold.

I'm a cuckolding fantasy. It's so tough. You have to be like, have your fantasies. Don't be ashamed of what your sexual fantasies are ever unless they're illegal and then come on, get some help. But don't be ashamed of those, but also kind of be aware that when you're communicating them, be aware of how it will sound. Yeah.

To the other person. I can understand this dude having this fantasy. Yeah, sure. I've got fantasies like that. Absolutely. But you don't articulate them to the person who, I mean. But it's hard because you want to tell this person to be open and honest.

Oh, no. And what if it's a threesome? Can he never say that? I think that is a conversation that every couple has to explore, but I feel like the threesome conversation. There's no like polite, nice way to approach it. It's also tough to bring up. It's one thing to bring up.

I want to have a threesome because I think that will spice up our sex life. And it's another thing to bring up. I want to have a threesome with Kathy. Yes. And then you're like, I think you just want to fuck Kathy. Exactly. And that's not really a fantasy or a, I mean, it's just you

wanting to sleep with someone else. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not okay or it is, but and maybe it's okay to even have it. And maybe that's a question I would respond with is like, is it cool if it's someone other like, and I'm just throwing this out there. What if the two of you went to a hotel, hired a prostitute? And I said to the prostitute, what I want is for you to interrupt

us, walk in on us, and then we can all have sex. Because I think what trips up a lot of girls is all that means he's lusting after my friend. When honestly, for a lot of the time, the guy is just like trying to think of another person. It's not even about that roommate. It's just about like, I want it to be another girl. How cool would that be?

And maybe the girl would be more open to that than like, now, now you just want to have sex with Kathy, which I totally get. So to me, that's what sex workers are for. Sex workers. Yeah. I mean, prostitutes, that's what they're for. Like they're there for like to help you with fantasies and there's no strings, no strings.

So you're, you're, you're, you're, you're pro prostitutes. Okay. I'm getting into a real can of worms here. You're pro statutes. I don't want to. You're definitely not anti-statutes. As long as I would, you know, as long as they're, they're taking care of themselves and they feel good about what they're doing

and they're getting paid and doing what they need to do. I don't, I do not have a problem with it. Cool. And I, I feel like that they're there to help. Sometimes they help couples do stuff. Uh, that's fun that, you know, doesn't, uh, involve their friend Kathy. Have you, uh, have you heard of Thrender?

The Tinder for Threpples? Twitter mentioned Thrender to me the other day and I don't know. That's what it is. It's for singles to find couples or couples to find singles. That's interesting. I think that's also good too. To me, like the less strings attached when you're talking about fantasies, the better.

I've always like, you never want to have a threese. I don't think everyone have a threesome with somebody that you all know. Yes. Oh, it's got to be a stranger. Yes. I don't think a prostitute is going to be a very good actor. I'll just say that.

Oh, come on. They're going to come in. Oh, I caught you. Oh yeah. You should do it like someone's sag after. Do it again. Do it again. Auditions and then maybe, maybe reach out to central casting

and then you can get an extra someone who's been doing background work at the very least. That's like, what's Daphne's Zuniga doing right now? Daphne's Zuniga. I don't know where that came from. Is she camera ready? Oh, she's ready. That was like a really good option.

Thrender's a solid one. I was reading and like, I was reading like a lady's like a Cosmo or something and the question that the girl had asked like wrote into that advice column was I, um, I had a threesome. My boyfriend and I had a threesome with our pal and the next morning I decided to run out and get everyone coffee and breakfast. And when I came back, they were going at it without me. My boyfriend and my friend were going at it without me and my

friend thought was, why the fuck did you leave the room? What's wrong with you? Don't get coffee and breakfast. What in the fuck is wrong with you? Don't do that. You stay in the room. You stay in the goddamn room and you get room service. What's wrong with you?

But if you leave, if you, if you feel so threatened to leave that your boyfriend will just start fucking this other girl, then something's wrong with your relationship. You got to trust the boy to leave him alone for 15 minutes while you get coffee. I think you got to set those parameters up ahead of time. The only thing keeping them from that is that you're in the room and that it's probably not a great relationship to start with.

If you have jealous tendencies, I don't think you can have a threesome. I feel like you should, like it's so, the line between three way and him fucking, I don't know. It's a tough line, but that's what the parameters that need to be set up ahead of time. I'm all for it even though it's not super sexy. If it's going to be a threesome, you have to set up rules ahead of time that are like nothing without me there.

Yeah. Like whatever rules you want to set up, you only look me in the eyes. Don't look at that penis, whatever. Don't let her make you come. Yeah, whatever rules you guys want to set up and if they had set that up ahead of time, because to me, this poor dummy boyfriend was like,

I got to do it last night. I'm doing it again today. If she's not here, we'll figure it out later. Don't go get coffee. Don't put it in that situation. Did they act like they got caught or they're like, hey, we're doing it again. Come on in.

And the question, I think what she said was that they just kept going at it. And can you just picture her walking in the room with like, I got bagels. Oh, that's so happened on one of our podcasts where like this dude and his girlfriend participated in an orgy. And then the guy like got sort of yet jealous and he left and the girlfriend stayed in there and like continued to

fuck with people. And he was very offended. Yeah, it's hard. You have to keep rules. You never want to leave. It's true. You don't want to leave the room. Don't leave the room.

Because you're only setting yourself up to be really hurt. Exactly. You got to be in together. You're either in it all the way together or if one of you leaves, the other one probably should leave too. It's a very dangerous thing to test people. Oh, sure. Especially.

Oh, yeah. There was just just, and this is bringing it real down, but there was a story about this murder, suicide that happened or attempted murder, suicide that happened at Yale last year. Which was not successful. The other guy stabbed a guy in the neck but did not kill him and then jumped to his death.

And they were like, what happened? They seem to be friends. What was going on? And there was a girl in the room. They'd been having a threesome and she, he got upset that his girlfriend was really enjoying this other guy too much. So he stabbed the guy in the neck and then jumped to his death. That's insane to decide to do it at that moment.

Unless he was thinking of that the whole time. I don't know. But I'm like, well, that's the worst case scenario. The poor girl. By the way, I was like, oh my god. Holy shit. At least she lucked out and the murderer died. I suppose that's true.

That'd be funny if the guy survived and then he jumped out of the window and just broke his legs. What the hell was that, Ron? Holy man. You killed me. You tried to kill me. I tried to kill me too. No, that's so fucked.

Don't ever let a girl do that to you guys. Well, not even the girl's fault. Clearly the girl was like, I'm totally fine. I'm doing fine. They had their own issues clearly. Right. One second I'm being Eiffel Towered and then the next. The next is just a T-bone.

Poor thing. Poor guy that died. Poor guy that got injured. And the two survivors are still at Yale. They didn't release their names, but they're still there. They're just going to Yale. Piss the wave in New Haven. Represent, man.

Born and bred. When was the next? I'm sorry. Are you okay? Jake was the guy that was stabbed. Oh, cool. And I was the girl. When was like the first test they took after that?

Like, how do you like, all right. Shake it off. Accounting. Come on. Gotta get in here. Gotta get in my brain working. Cannot imagine. Can I ask you a general therapy question?

Sure. Since we're running low on time. Sure. Can I ask you some more answers out of you? Therapy for everybody? Or like, would you recommend it for literally everybody? Honestly, yeah. I think I would.

I think it's, um, to me, if you're in a good place, it's like a spa day a little bit. It's like a massage or something like you're doing a thing to take care of yourself and like, so you don't get any other relationships in the world where you get, it's all about you. Yeah. Like it shouldn't be like that in any other relationship, but this is a relationship. It's not about the therapist. You don't get to hear about their life.

You don't care about their life. You shouldn't, but like, they're just there to listen to you, whatever you have to say. So read a good place. It's just that. It's just me time basically, but if you're not in a great place, it's good to kind of help you find the skills you need to move into a good place. So I do think it's for everybody. All right.

So I've never done therapy. Oh, it's super fun. You should do it. Well, not always fun. I always say like, I would do it if it like, if somebody made the appointment for me and I just had to go. Is there an app like therapy Uber? Yeah.

Thuber. Is there a thrender for therapists? By the way, we should totally start that. Oh yeah. That's a really great idea. Like someone just comes to your house. Oh my God. And then for like 45 minutes and then you leave.

Should we cut this part out so that we can save this idea? That poor therapist though. Cause what if it's a rough situation and then you're like in someone's house and that's creepy. Oh yeah. Well, think of postmates, but instead of Chipotle, it's mental health. I don't hate that idea. You still get guacamole.

Yeah. Yeah. You still get guacamole. Just like a little, you've done well today. Do therapists go to therapy? I did. And I, in my program, we were required to go through therapy while we were in school. Are you more conscious of like, wow, this person's not a good therapist?

Yeah. But I think it's also like, it's like, it's just like any relationship, it's less about like how much training they have and what their like approaches and more like, do you get along with this person when you sit down across from them? That's it. So it takes, sorry. It takes two. You.

Yeah. Somebody is a good therapist to somebody and a therapist to another. Exactly. And I always tell people audition therapists. They are therapists and you feel judged and I'm like, like they're not, they think that you're a bad person, like anything feels off. You're going to feel uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable at first to talk about yourself to a stranger.

But if you're feeling like this is not working and you don't ever want to talk to them about your stuff, don't keep going. I know a lot of people they're like, you just, well, it's my therapist. So I have to go through. Yeah. There's tons of them. Literally hundreds of thousands of therapists. So don't see that one again.

Try another one. If you're feeling. What's the easiest way for me to find a therapist? I really like psychology today, which is an oddly amazing magazine. It shouldn't be as great as it is, but it's like amazing. They have on their website a thing called a therapist finder and you put in your zip code and then you can put in insurance stuff and you can also like just find therapists that are nearby.

I tell people if you're like a liberal kind of person, I always look for people that work with gay and lesbian populations because even though I'm not, to me it signals this is a person with an open mind that kind of their values might reflect mine. And if I'm looking for someone who would absolutely no way try to help these hedonists. You can do that too. You're a Trump supporter. Yeah. You can find that too.

Is there a filter? A filter by this guy doesn't speak to gays. How do you even find that out? Pro wall. Yeah. Do you talk to gay people too? All right. Not that I am gay, but.

Not into it. Not into it. You can look for like religious people. They have a lot of caveats and it's all in how the therapists describe themselves. So there actually are like lists like they categorize themselves. A little bit because if you're a religious therapist, which they absolutely exist, you probably don't want to see someone who's like an atheist. Yeah.

I wouldn't fucking go see that therapist just to like make them real uncomfortable. And then you probably should go see a therapist. Those folks deserve to be thrown off a little bit. Maybe so. Swish it up. Swish it up, baby. Oh, hey. Yeah.

So I was getting railed out by these nine dudes and. Okay. Sounds great. Oh no. Yeah, it was great. It was fucking dope. Anyway, have you thought about the Lord? Yeah.

Jesus is hot. I don't let him fuck me. But that's what some people want and that it's available too. But I really like, I think their site is very clearly laid out and there's good people on it. So I recommend that. Friends therapist. Is that a weird no-no?

Are you finding that? If all my friends go to one therapist. You just wanted to give you therapy. Is this therapy? Do you want me to leave the room? I think it's fine to go to someone all your friends go to. I maybe wouldn't go to the same person like your significant other goes to. Right.

Just cause that's like, it just gets a little weird. But some people do that, but I personally would not do that. Interesting. Yeah. All right. Psychologists today. Psychology today. Holy shit.

And everything called therapist finder. And it's great. And it also can put in sliding scale, which is an option, which means that instead of going through insurance, you just pay out of pocket, but you pay based on what you make. Just good for maybe some of your listeners that don't only have a small chunk of change. It's really cool. Yeah. Awesome.

Anything else? Real advice. Yeah. So much real for things actually got real. The threesome girl. I think she should find out. She will. I just want to finish up there because I feel like we bailed on her and she needs to decide

if she actually wants to have a threesome and entertain the fetish. Right. She doesn't. Yes. In general. In general. And I would, and I don't know. I think it's okay to call him out for if his fetish or his fantasy made her feel shitty.

Yeah. You want to be completely honest. Yes. And then you could say, oh, I'm down to do this, but this part made me uncomfortable. If you are down to do it. Or if you're even down to just like, she might just be down to sex about a threesome type thing. Ooh, that's a fun time. Sex about it, but never do it.

Yeah. Just like to, to live out the fantasy a little bit, but you know, not to do it with the roommate because you don't feel like that's sort of cultivating a weird relationship. I like that idea. I also feel like girls now are expected to just be like totally down with everything. Ain't a lot of the first date. You don't have to. Wait to the second date for anal.

Yeah. Would you say that? Yeah. Is that on what the back cover of your book reads? Yeah. It's around my quotes. And I think it's true for dudes too. I think dudes are expected to just like want threesomes immediately, want anal immediately.

Like it's okay to like sex on just sex. Totally great. Just fondling and not even having sex. Totally great. You don't have to do all the things all the time. Nothing's wrong with missionary. This is the religious. Yeah.

You're still the religious therapist. Cool. Emily, Gordon. Yes. Thank you again. Thank you guys. Great job. This was great.

Your listeners have great questions. We should have you back because there's so many more questions that need your wisdom. Yeah. Let's do it. And if you have your own questions for Emily, but mostly for me, Jay, because unless, do you want to be replaced, Jay? Is this crazy? Oh, wait.

Wait a second. Wait. He gave great advice. You need a host. It's me, Emily, and Owls. He knows how to record shit. If you have your own questions for us, it's ifiroushowatgmail.com. Thank you to Owls for recording the opening theme song.

And Emily, what's your Twitter or Tumblr or whatever you want people to have? How do people find you? I'm at Twitter. I'm the Gynomite. Oh, great name. I know. If I thought about it when I signed up years ago, I maybe would have maybe done something closer to my own name.

It's T-H-E-G-Y-N-O-M-I-T-E. Gynomite. Nice. Yes. And Tumblr. I'm at EmilyVGordon.tumblr.com. Awesome. Thank you, Emily.

Thank you. And this closing theme song is by Shane McInerney and his accomplice in rhyme, Donald Considine. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back next week. Bye. We had an idea to write the short song here about the two guys who see through the lies. Believe me. Jake is the first one.

He's awfully handsome. He fucks and he treats half the time he's asleep. It's awesome. If you have an issue, send it into these two handsome Jews. See that cheese. Fucking shit.