IHIP News - This is His Worst Nightmare Come True

Episode Date: October 3, 2026

We are joined by the incredible Kara Swisher to talk AI billionaires and their submission to Trump. Pre-order Jennifer’s new book Not Today, Fascists today: https://linktr.ee/ivehaditpodcast Follow Us: I've Had It Podcast: @Ivehaditpodcast Jennifer Welch: @mizzwelch Kara Swisher: @karaswisher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Has J.D. Vance been a disappointment to the tech. I mean, they purchased him. They queer ID. They still like him. The tech people still like him. Trump, I think, knows that he is repugnant to voters. And he doesn't admire that. I think he knows he's against him on the war, although he'll stick with him publicly behind the scenes. He was the leaker of all that stuff. Let's be clear. Oh, yeah. And he was. Like, be clear. He was absolutely. I know this. I'm already laughing because I'm joined in studio by the legendary, great friend of the show and great friend of mine. Kara, Swisher, Kara, these billionaires, these tech.

Wow, you're going right there. Yeah, immediately. These tech billionaires and all the dip shittery that they're unleashed. Shittery. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. At the White House. Yeah. And I think my question for you is this.

How much should we pin on these people that are propping up this fascist? So all of these fascists are able to get power with when the elites prop them up. And these elites were on display there. Yeah. My thinking goes, do you guys care about the killing of Renee Good? No. Are you guys okay with that? Well, presumably, yes.

They've forgotten about it. They've moved on. They've moved on. I mean, I think one of the things that I, in a message that I say over and over again, and I always say they don't care. Like, everyone's like, well, what are they? I'm like, they don't care. And they think that means I think they're evil, which I don't, although it is evil to not care, of course, in my estimation.

But I think that's the issue is they don't care. They're only interested in their own businesses and their shareholders. And it's something I say over and over and over again. You know, follow the money. And that's what they're doing with Trump there. And, you know, it was incredible about yesterday. You know, of course, the media covers are like, oh, they're here. I'm like, they're always at the White House.

When are they not? How many times have you seen them at a lunch at the White House, at the she dinner at the White House? three months ago at the White House, they're always at the fucking White House. It's like they live there and they have like cafeteria privileges. And when I'm almost like, can we bring like an oil guy in here or maybe we could have a new round of assholes? You know, like I'd feel bad if I were other, you know, oligarchic CEOs because you don't get to go to the White House.

It's always Mark Zuckerberg. They added Dario Amodi to Amadeh. It's Bezos. It's Elon. It's David Sachs. It's Emil Michael. It's always the same groups of them. You know, Sergey Brin, they throw him in now and again. It was interesting. Apple was not there yesterday at this lunch, but it's the same crowd, and they just continue to show up for him, which is really astonishing. So let's break down the psychology of this. So they all unite to go kiss the ring to get favorable contracts on the government. Right. Is there inner competition between them? Yes. It's a Silicon Valley.

beef what is happening. And Trump, it's like a, it's like a game of The Apprentice. Like he, he gets to dispense favors. And there, a lot of it, which I say to people, I'm like, they're not here. A lot of them in and between themselves don't like each other or they're fighting for power or whatever, like a Sam Altman and Adario. You know, that's a very, it's a very tight race. So is Elon Musk, who's behind in the AI race comparatively to them. Then there's Zuckerberg who's trying to come in from the left with his adorable little tomaguchi, tomogut, whatever it's called, his little charm, his muse charm, you know, which I can't wait till it goes rogue and starts killing people, right? Your charm starts like, I think we'll kill people you don't like because

they're mean to you. But, you know, they all have their own business interests. And if you keep that in mind, it makes much more sense rather than they want to save us. You know, you don't create something that you think or call an existential threat. And then And one, say, we're here to save you. So that's like the arsonists say, I just burnt down the building and now I'm here to fix the situation or put it out. Or, and then say at the very next breath, and by the way, buy my stock. Well, if there's an existential crisis, why are we making a product that's an existential crisis? Why are you pulling products that are dangerous?

And some of them articulated. Bill Gates is sort of on a PR round in order to, but one, remain relevant. and to give warnings. They're all saying it. Like, this is dangerous stuff. By all means, let's make more of it. It's like a bunch of people who have nuclear bomb companies saying, we'll take care of it, even though we have an economic capitalist interest in proliferating.

And the reason why we haven't blown ourselves up after 80 years here, or close to 100 years, is because we had nuclear nonproliferation. Where is that for AI if it's this serious? This family is on the brink of Civil War. Mobland, the hit original series is now streaming on Paramount Plus. We are the Harrogans. Don't know than yet? In Google us. From the underworld of Guy Ritchie.

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So Elon Musk is always on, if you look at his ex profile, between, you know, his personal grievances, he's a victim. People are mean to him. He's tweeted about me. I'm mean to him. Yes, he's tweeted about me. Feelings hurt a lot. What does he call you? A ghoul.

An evil ghoul. Oh, I think he's attracted to you. Oh, it does? Yeah. Okay. So he all looked like a lot of his ex-wife. So, you know, I do. You do.

So he says my heart is filled with hate, which is, I think I've gotten that as well. Everything, like, you know I say this all the time. Every accusation is a confession. Right. He thinks he's a ghoul. He, his heart is filled with hate. Just whatever he says, you know, do the rubber glue thing. Yeah.

I take it as a badge of honor. Yeah, it's kind of stupid. Yeah, like, why is he worried about what I'm saying? Also, he's an old man. Like, you're going to, like, act like a 12 year. It's not even good for a 12 year. Because I feel like I have something that. Elon Musk will never have.

What is that? I would never... Something in shape? What? I would never... Sorry, I shouldn't object if I know. I love that. Yeah.

I would never not love my child. Yeah. I would pick up a mountain and move it to the other side of the planet. Yep. And if I had a trans child, I would think I need to love that child even more because so many people are going to meet. So I have something that's invaluable that he will never, ever have. And my children feel that.

And so I... He has a lot. of children. He just picks and chooses who is who is in his favor. I think they're few I think most of them from what I can understand and I know members of the different families are terrified of him. Like they will not talk on the record and actually this new Musk movie coming out, Justine Musk, her first wife who I have a lot of guard for. The mother of Vivian. Who called Jenna is how they talk, Vivian is her name, but she is in this Musk movie and at great risk to herself talking about these issues.

She's been a very quiet person, not been out in public, but she's defending her child. And, you know, Vivian gives her great credit for that, like, in doing that. But it seems like that's sort of the lowest bar on a parent thing is to love your child. Right. And he can't even do that. No, no. He's incapable of doing. He's always been that way, you know, around.

I was recounting years ago, and I didn't pay attention to the time, I have super macho sons. They're like, oh, you know, very, like, sports, that kind of. thing. And is that because I'm a lesbian and I grow super macho sons? They just happen to be, right? And if they were different, although my oldest son has turned into a lesbian, he wears, you know, he lives in San Francisco, he wears Crocs and he has a Subaru. Fine. I'm accepting of this. Also a girlfriend who's also equally a hippie. Like they're very hippie kind of thing. But it's funny, when I said, you could buy any car you want for college. You picked a Subaru. I'm like, that car. Like, really? Can't you pick a better one? The apple doesn't fall for.

Although, no, I don't like a super. I know, but it's in his jeans. I understand, but my other son, of course, wants a Corvette because he's graduating college soon. Where did I get off the thing? Oh, you know, I remember him making a remark about my sons. Like, how'd you get your son so manly or something like that? And I was like, you know, I don't know. They're just that way.

Like, it was weird at the time. And now, in hindsight, from what I understand about what happened with Jenna and other of his children. He remarks a lot if they're too effeminate, if they're too, you know, not the way he imagines a man to be. I wonder why that's so triggering to him. You know, leave that up to the psychiatrist. He needs it. He's in desperate need of psychological. Probably something. If, you know, if I talk to him again, I would say, what happened to you? And I don't mean recently. I mean back then. There's something happened to you at some point early in his life that made him like this. Maybe it was a father. Maybe it was the mother. Maybe it was something else.

And I would love it. It's not an excuse. It's an explanation because something did. And I don't think we spent enough time plumbing that as reporters. Like, what happened to you? Why did you get this way? Why do you think empathy is toxic and suicidal? Who put that in your fucking head? Like, where did it come from? How to, you know, it may have been him himself. He's an adult man. I think that the self-preservation that they need in order to do these nefarious acts is where the empathy is toxic is where the tech oligarchs and the Christian nationalists combine. Yeah, but you know that better. Because these Christian nationalists, they have a Jesus problem because Jesus was a radical

empath. And the tech, but so they want to do eroding laws that erode civil liberties that do not lift up the marginalized. So that girl, Ali Beth Stecky, I think her name is. She's a big Christian influencer. She wrote a wrote a book, Toxic Empathy and Tied it all to Christian Faith. Yeah, that's a new thing right now. You know, they're taking hope, for example. Elon wants to jump on that as well because he has nefarious plans for the United States. And mind you, he's always talking about communism.

Right. But I want to play this clip for you and let's dissect this. Which is somewhere? Play the clip. What the job for the future? Because people looking at this, will be worried, particularly a laptop job. What are they going to do in the future? Well, I think it is worth highlighting the positive benefits of AI, which will,

or SI, pardon me. Thank you. Super intelligence. I think my farthest likely outcome is an age of abundance where we don't have just universal basic income. We have universal high income. That right there. A world of abundance where basically he's admitting we're going to take all the jobs, so we get

all of those wages. Right. you're going to get universal high income. Yes, that's the most unfilinthropic person, rich person on the planet is Elon Musk wants us to believe who also is anti-communist. That was a group of unfilinthropic people there, by the way. Jeff Bezos is being put to shape. They're all being, if you added up all of McKenzie Scots, this is Jeff Bezos's ex-wife. Yes.

If you added all of it up that she's given away, they're still down. And you include Bill Gates, who has been very generous along with Melinda Gates. they're tiny compared to what she's done. $26,7 billion. So this is interesting to me, and we need to pay attention to this. Yes, I pay a lot of attention. We're basically saying, we're going to, AI is going to capture everybody's jobs, meaning we get the wages of those jobs with our robots.

And then in exchange, we're going to give you this universal high income, which number one is communism on its face. We're going to capture all the means of production, and then what you need will be provided for you. But it also dovetails with what I've read about Peter Thiel talking about wanting. Who is the ringleader of all this? He wants a techno feudal governing. Yes. We're there in charge.

Yes. Yes. The price we pay is they're the kings. They're the kings. They're the technokins. That's what they call them. You know, that's a word techno. Techno kings. Techno kings. Okay. Yeah. I don't want to spell it, but it's called Techno Kings. But that's how they want it because they know better. If you read Teal to me is the smartest among all. all of them. And he's on, he's been on a real religious journey recently. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. It's weird. It's strange. And he looks like his face is melting like he's from, Raiders the Lost Dark when the guy looks in the covenant, the Nazi looks in the covenant.

Yeah. Again, I shouldn't objectify people, but there it is. He looks strange. Like here, we're in Trump's America. Right. Everyone remarks on it, pretending, I don't know what happened, like, because he looked relatively normal before, but you could say about half of Hollywood. So I guess, um, anyway, He really does, they do believe. And in Elon's case, he's not nearly as smart as Peter Thiel. Like in that way, Peter Thiel is quite crafty and smart. But his philosophy is fucked up.

Like, it's very fucked up. Right. It's fucked up. And one of the things that's interesting, he gave an interview last week to Matthias Duffner, who just basically fellated him the whole time. He's the head of Axel Springer. You know, we didn't push back at all that said, you know, essentially evil is good because evil is effective.

That was one thing. I saw that. And I can, I understand him saying that. Like, everyone's like, can you believe it? I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah, he says that all the time. The other thing was, you know, well, I, you know, I called the Pope the Antichrist. The Pope is pushing back on all this quite well, and they don't know what to do because it's, it's not anti-tech.

It's quite pro-tech. It's pro-tech for humanity. Very different. And, you know, I shouldn't have called, maybe it was harsh to call him anti-Crust. I'm like, you think, you know, you know, sir, like anything. Yeah. And then he called him a communist. He called him a creature of the Communist Party.

Meanwhile, they're all having dinner with, guess who? The top communists. Yeah. All of them were there as well as the Fox News people. And the Supreme Court justices. Right, right. They have not been anti-verbally anti-communists recently. They always suck up the Supreme Court justice, no matter the administration.

The, you know, if there's a Democrat, the Democrat ones will be there. Yeah, whatever. I don't care. They're captive. We need more of them, so they're not quite as captive. But they, you know, you had Jesse Waters there, Mr. I hate communists, hanging out. Lady Waters. Like, he's very delicate, isn't he?

He's very delicate. He spends a lot of time talking about men. He does. He loves me. Yeah, he talks a lot about men. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Nothing wrong with, I talk about men a lot too. Yeah, exactly.

He is an admiration of men's men in a way that's unusual and creepy. But one of the things you notice is they always have an answer. And then the promises are never kept. Like one of the things Elon had talked about, and you'll note this in this Musk movie coming up, is how many times we're going to have autonomous cars? He said it to me eight to nine times. It's next year, Kara. Next year we'll be on Mars.

Next year we'll do this. He just makes shit up. And I don't mind that on some level. I'm like, good, be a dreamer. Have your dreams. And visibility cloak would be mine, right? That kind of thing. Yeah.

But I'm not making one. Like, I'd like an invisibility cook is different than. So he's just like, let me tell you how it's going to go, just so you'll give in to us, because this is what you're going to get. But it's very much like Trump promises made, promises undelivered. Health care in two weeks. Right. Health care in two weeks.

You know, this new latest idea of a steel mill is insane. They make it for half the amount in China and even less, like, and less in Europe. Europe makes steel cheaper than we do. Why are we doing this? So he's doing it as a pap to his people, but it's non-economic. None of it is economic. A lot of this stuff is just nonsense, really. Financially, at least.

These, these dream. It's a nice dream to be able to sit around and watch movies all day. These men really terrify me. They should immensely. And when I see them, you know, hamming it up with Donald Trump. Yeah. I know. Yucking it up.

Yucking it up. Yeah, yucking it up with Donald Trump. I know that behind the scenes they're saying, you know, this, what a sucker. No, I think some of them now like him. I've heard this for many people. I was sort of perplexed by Tim Cook, who has just recently stepped down. And I know him a little pretty well, not well. He's not my friend, but I've covered him for many years.

I interviewed him many times. I was like, come on. Like this guy, and I had heard someone from Apple call me and said, he likes him. I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, he does. Now, no Apple people were there in this recent one, but it was really, he's kept himself away. He did change, the new CEO changed the name to Lake America, but he has kept away. You know, I think some of them like him.

I do. And plus they're getting sweet, sweet money, more money. Because, you know, as I always say, they're so poor all they have is money. With this Musk documentary. I think Bezos likes him. I think Musk likes him. I think Bezos does too. With this documentary coming out about Elon Musk, I read a report.

There's a couple of things coming out. There's that and the social reckoning. Yeah. I read a report that the social media companies banded together and nobody will run an ad promoting the documentary. They deny it. It was a mistake in two of their behalf. Right. Yeah.

And so this is fascinating to me because Elon Musk is always, I'm free speech. I'm a free speech. Ludist. What is he so scared about with this documentary that he would make phone calls? Well, you've seen it. Yeah, I've seen it. It's four hours. It's very long. It brings it all together. It groups it together. And as I said, there's a lot of characters in it, like Justine Musk and Ashley St. Clair and others, the women really bury him, like, and bring it together. So you understand. So you see it all together, all of it. Like, and then it makes sense. Alex Gibney, who's such a gifted filmmaker, very famous and well-regarded and lotted

a documenting filmmaker. He brings it all together. So someone who doesn't quite know the story, you see it in full, all of the pieces. And I think that's one thing that Elon's effective at is he's over here doing Starlink, over here doing the cars, over here doing dose. This brings it together. And the main message is important entrepreneur, like a Henry Ford, important, really good at clocking businesses, how to create businesses, really talented, very aggressive.

All that is interesting and possibly good in some cases. But he's a flim-flam man with the stocks. He makes promises, you know, his mouth makes promises he can't deliver in any way. He's become toxic. He's become hateful. He's become like, and he has enormous power throughout society. It's not just any old crank screaming away. It is someone with the most money, the most power, the most influence over communications, satellites, transportation, the president himself.

That's where it is. And that's where you worry and who is completely unaccountable and is possibly crazy, you know, given all the crazy shit, he says. And also very clearly has enjoys using drugs, which I think has been well reported by many newspapers. I wouldn't say allegedly. he talks about it himself, right? And you start to worry. Like, what if, you know, it's a little like Henry Ford, who had a similar influence back then at Ford.

He used to put anti-Semitic tracks at Ford dealerships. That's how he distributed them, a newspaper that he had. So it's not, we've had this happen. It's just someone with so much global influence. It's a very different game we have here. Do you think Elon Musk's obituary will be, I mean, 100 years after he's done, an eighth grader or ninth grader sitting in their U.S. history class, the richest man in the world that took from the poorest people in the world.

When you break down Doge and the U.S. aid cuts and those numbers come to fruition. I don't think you'll come off well. I think, you know, it's interesting because Henry Ford, of course, enjoyed a really good reputation until he didn't, right, until it was very clear what it was really well reported, all his incredible, racist, anti-Semitic, everything else, his funding of America first, his flirtation with Nazism. Not even flirtation. He was dating Nazis, essentially. So, you know, I think it'll be a complex picture, and that's why I like this documentary.

He says it's unfair and a hit job. It is not, actually. I think Alex has done a very good job. And I'm just saying being fair, but saying what he did that is accomplishments, like there are accomplishments here. And one of the things you take away from it, and, you know, this is why I get criticized for being positive about him many years ago, but I think I was correct in that. It could have gone a great way. It could have, right? It could have gone. Maybe you couldn't. Maybe all that wealth

makes you crazy. Maybe it's Howard Hughes, except meaner and nastier. But if you think of the possibilities, it could have been amazing, right? Someone that could have had a very good impact on the world. And I'm not a fan of rich people running things in general. That's why those pictures offend me. There's no, like at the White House, it was all CEOs, all of them. It was not advocates for and against AI, which I'm happy to entertain both. It wasn't teachers. It wasn't Hollywood people. It wasn't citizens. It wasn't elected officials. Whether you like them or not, Ted Cruz should have been there over some of these people, right? I know, but he was elected. Maybe not for him. Let me just say they voted for him. I agree. Here is a level of accountability

that he has. Right. As much as I agree. But I'd rather have him there making decisions than Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. I'm sorry I would. That's a pretty low bar. It's a low bar. And I understand, by the way, I agree with you on that.

They should be part of the talks. But why are they the only people make? Why are we letting the arsonists tell us how to protect the building? What do you think? Okay, when we get to Canes? It doesn't make any sense. Like, let's let the plane people decide what falls out of the sky. When we get to Canckels McTacococco?

Yes. When we get to this guy, I don't believe in there's a world where he's like, come to the White House. Is his new name McTacot Tits? Very nice. It was always Kankles McTacled. Oh, I didn't realize that. It was a full name. Cancels. Cancels. He, I don't think there's a world where he says, all right, guys, come in. I'm going to make this so easy for you. I'm going to make you so much money. I don't think he, Trump has that in him. I think he gets self money. He's made a lot of AI bets, by the way. I want to cut on this. Yep. Not for the U.S. government, like he's done with some other companies, but for him personally, don't you think that's probably what's going on?

Yes, 100. This is all a grift. And they get it. And you know, I use the term a lot, and I think it's catching on coin operated president. They put a quarter in and they get a dollar out. And so, and it's always at the expense of the taxpayer, right? It's at our expense, always. And what's interesting to see these pushbacks on data centers, these pushbacks on AI, the numbers, the only people I believe in are voters, are citizens. The numbers are crazy. People hate It's bipartisan. It's bipartisan. It's pushback everywhere. And now, of course, he, now, interestingly, Trump, politically speaking, is being kind of idiotic. He's doubling down. You see a lot of other Republicans going, oh, like Vivek Ramoswamy is suddenly anti, because he's getting killed on it. You'll see a bunch of them. Mike Rogers. A lot of them are, oh, my gosh, is our friend. Yeah, recently he was saying something about being against the Iran war. And it's like, they all are trying to do that. You said to me once that. Behind the scenes, they say it very, they do say that behind the scenes. You said to me once that if Kamala would have won, these guys would have had pronouns.

Pronouns. They them. Mark Zuckerberg is a they them. They them, right? So how does it affect them? Let's say that the polling is correct. Right now there's a generic ballot that came out. It looks like it's going to be bad.

It shows the Democrats plus 16. It's looking like we can take the House and the Senate in a massive massed tsunami. Let's say they don't. Let's say they can't. Let's say they can't. They're going to try. I give you 100%. We'll get to that second part.

But let's say they try, they can't, and they have to face an incoming. Yes. Do they all of a sudden slap pronouns or are they so over the ledge morally? They will. They will. Well, here's the question. How cooperative will Democrats be with them to get them back? Will Democrats be have vengeance? I think they should. They won't.

That's my feeling is that there is a, let's try to do business with them. Let's get them back. Let's get them on our side. You know, we repelled them with Joe Biden's comments about Musk. Let's do something. That's what they rely on. I have heard them say that. Like, you know, the reason I'm acquiescing you to Trump is he'll kill us.

Media companies will tell you this. Like, look, we have two years. We'll be quiet. Either the best of them are just being quiet, the worst of them are showing up at the White House, right? That's really, but a lot of them just say nothing. Or in Disney's case, Disney is pushed back on that moron at the FCC, Brandon Carr. Brandon, whatever is the moron is what I call him. Because they, you know, did you hear this?

He was in a big cult, a sex cult. Yes, I understand that. Of course. Okay, go ahead. Apparently he was a nice guy in the sex cult. Brandon Carr. I don't really care. He's a moron.

He's a moron. He's bought and paid for more. And he's doing great damage. And by the way, I like an active FCC comparatively, but not this. This is all in his interests or Trump's interests, not in the public interest. So I think my worry is the Democrats will once again, you know, say bygones. And I think certain things are no bygones. Like I think there's a lot that isn't bygones, in my opinion.

I agree. I think Elon Musk, Robert Garcia, head of oversight, needs to call his ass in on day one. All day long. What happened with Doge? What were you doing there? And I think all of these files, let me subpoena you, let me do this. The problem is, and I've heard this argument for them, because if we spend all our time attacking Trump and Musk and the rest of them, we can't get things done that will get us elected permanently. You know, like minimum wage, raise minimum wage, or universal health care or lower prices.

We should just put him in our rearview mirror and say, in essence, say bygones. We're going to just have to move on. That didn't work when Merrick Garland did that. I agree with you. I am not of that feeling. I'm like hit him and hit him hard, like real hard, like unfairly even. I agree. You know, and it's, and it's, the problem is a lot of this stuff is important to America to stay ahead in lots of different than the AI race and everything else.

The question is, what's wrong with a few guardrails, right? And I think what the tech people are doing are arguing, is it doom or is it wonderful? Well, maybe it's both, like nuclear energy. Like, nuclear energy is a bomb that goes boom and it's also could be a really promising energy for the future. They always try to make it because they're so intellectually juvenile. Everything is one or the others, you know? It's not complex.

Yes, AI will help us get to a thing, but what are the guardrails? What are the things we should demand of these things? Like we do with every, look at what's happened to the FDA. We're like, we have poop lettuce now. We didn't have poop lettuce. Now we have poop lettuce. Now we have measles. Now we have this.

There are good reasons for having these things. And yes, the government can overreach. That is absolutely true. But in a lot, most of the time, and let me say, I just really hate this sort of demonization of government workers. Most of them are highly competent. Yes. Most of them are.

And it's really, and mostly, you know, and much of business can be highly competent and civically minded. Much of, much a business can be. But ultimately, you have to understand what's, What is the goal here for these groups? For businesses is to make money, is to give money to shareholders. Sometimes for government is to hold on to permanent power. I get that.

But many, many people I have met in government have been wonderful people, and they really care about public service. And that is something we should celebrate in our country, I think. I agree, which brings me back to Elon Musk, who fired so many of these government workers who don't have ambitions to be the richest people in the world. They want a house that they can pay off in 30 years. They want vacation and they want health insurance.

Really decent people. And Elon must fired them from their jobs. And so if we advance towards my hypothetical dream here that we have blue both houses of Congress with balls. And I know those are both big. You know he will. He's such a, what's the thing, cockroach, whatever, whatever the metaphor of whoever sticks around, like turtles, whatever. Yeah. He will do a deal with that. He will suddenly, look how he is with Mamdani. That's fascinating to me, his sort of obsession with Mom Dani. He likes it. It's clear. It's not, it's not. I don't think it's just to be near someone who's popular, although he's always attracted to popular people. He seems to be attracted to dark skin men just from my observation. I mean, it's just, there's a theme. The guy from Saudi was here. He did it to Westmore, too. Westmore told me once. Yeah, he's always like this guy's so good looking. You're fit. You're fit. And most is like, okay. Yeah, I had. I'm aware. Kylie, what was the guy's name? We had, Miles. Miles Taylor that

worked in Trump 1.0 and he worked at the DHS. He said it was really weird because they would get these requests for Trump to go meet with, you know, people at different agencies in the DHS and they would say, make sure you put the good looking men at front. And Miles would be like, so weird. Yes, it was. Yeah. So I do think with Mom Donnie, I do think Mom Donnie encompasses some of that Trump really admires that he was able to take on everybody and win and Trump likes a winner. He does. He's good looking. He's smart. And I think Trump is just kind of a little bit of a queen that it's like, all these people hate him so much. I'm going to be friends with him. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yes. Something childlike. You know what? We should encourage that.

I think he'll do deals all. I think he'll throw every bit of MAGA under the bus. I think He is so desperate. He was so unhugged as a child. He's so desperate for at this late point in his life near at the end. He cannot help, but be desperately needed an affirmation. He did it. He did it at the, at this thing at the White House. Aren't I great? Aren't I the best president? Aren't I? It's kind of sad. It's really, it's now comical. Yeah. But in so many ways, it's so sad and pathetic. Really pathetic. The president of the United States has to be told he's good. Like, you're a good boy. Like, it's strange. It's really weird.

It's strange. So Peter Till purchased the smoky-eyed sociopath or current vice president, Jay D.Mann. Yes, he does. Peter Thiel's failed intern is what Rachel Miffel. I love Rachel Mather. In the most recent interview that you were referring where Peter Thiel is talking about being evil, productivity, etc.

He kind of poohs J.D. Vance a little bit. Oh, of course he does. And his investment in J.D. Mance. Has J.D. Vance been a disappointment. Oh, I bet. I mean, they purchased him. They're queer-eyed. They still like him. The tech people still like him. Trump, I think, knows that he is repugnant to voters. And he doesn't admire that. I think he knows he's against him on the war, although he'll stick with him publicly behind the scenes. He was the leaker of all that stuff. Let's be clear. And he was, like, be clear. He was absolutely. I know this. But he, you know, he's sort of repugnant. And I make this joke all the time. He's the truck of politicians. You look at it. Most people go, most people go, yuck. He's he's repugnant to voters. He's repugnant. Repugnant. Like, I don't know what he's, he's repellent. He's repellent to voters. Like, you're like, hmm, hmm. What I see is a through line here. You have Elon Musk.

I don't think Trump is repellent to voters. I don't. Like, he's repellent to us. But part, portion of the correct. They're not. But one thing that I see is a through line here is Donald Trump, there was a quote in Trump one He told people, I don't want to stand next to Tiffany when you take pictures because she's fat. Yeah. You have Elon Musk who can't love Vivian because she's trans. You have J.D. Vance who cannot condemn racist, Nazi group young Republican text chats when his wife is Indian and his kids are mixed race. All of these men, what I see is the band that bands them together is that they are actively

trying to make the world less safe for the people that they should love. Yeah, it's complicated. You know, I interviewed Ari Emanuel Live yesterday, and I said that talked to him about his relation with Musk. This is quite a good book he's written. It's funny, and it's really in his voice. He had a ghostwriter who did the Agassi and Prince Harry books. Really, it's a really good book.

But I said, where's your line? Because in one hand, you are quite Democrat. He really is. He really is. I said, but you pal around with Elon Musk. Musk and you pal around with the president. And you spend all this time in this book insulting various and sundry agents who are nobody, right?

Like whether or power people in Hollywood, like Barry Diller or Jeffrey Katzmer. Spends a lot of time with very creative insults of them. There's some of them very funny. But he can't, when it comes to people like Musk and others, he says, you know, I don't want to be in a cult. I don't want to not get along with half my country. Why them?

Why do they get an out? It's always that with these people. They always come up with some excuse for their compromise. And I just want to know where the line is, or is there a line? Or Trump gives you money or whatever? Are we hardwired subconsciously throughout our whole lives to capitulate to patriarchal framing? Well, men are. That's for sure.

Is there that kind of default setting where, you know, Merrick Garland did it and the Biden administration did it like, oh, this is okay. We've got to let this stuff go. And Obama did it with the tech people Iraq war and with the banks in 2008. I always, he and I used to beef all the time. I'm like, all you do is coddle these people and they will kill you. Like you are growing a group of killers

and acting like they don't deserve any regulation, you know, but that was, yeah. Now he's on board with that idea that they're dangerous. But I mean, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I think it's a disease and an asset of mankind, the bygones. Like, let's forgive, right? Let's forget. And I'm not one of those people.

I'm not either. And I think women are less so, right? They're like, yeah, no. No, we need a reckoning. There needs to be accountability. You do not get to do these things to our country, kill citizens, kidnap people. We have concentration camps in America. The Supreme Court just approved this week.

Yeah, you can deport people to country. countries they've never been to. It's not the American way. You see it. And that's the problem. We have such a bifurcoded American way. There is a hopeful, wonderful thing about America. And yet there's this, you know, as much as Donham doesn't, like the Smithsonian head just left,

Lonnie Bunch, very qualified guy who just looked because he just got pilloried and pummeled by this guy. You know, he doesn't want to tell his, what is wrong with telling history the way it happened? It doesn't take away from the assets that we've done, the astonishing things. And for some reason, repeating, you don't want to do it. dwell on it, that's for sure. But you have to be a mature person and not be sort of a, someone who's stuck in permanent adolescence, you have to be able to say, okay, I did this. Do you think these billionaires, these techs, tech billioners are emotionally stunted?

Very much so. I talk about that. They're like, and I think they've been coddled that way. Yeah. You know, I used to complain about venture capitalists. I said, well, you stop treating them like they're toddlers. Don't you think part of one of the symptoms of capitalism is we attribute attributes to people that they haven't earned. If they're rich, they must be genius. That's correct. If they're rich, we must defer to them. Right. We must these, like the whole Epstein thing, the reason a lot of those people never got charged or we haven't investigated into it is because they're rich. Right. Donald Trump told Marjorie Taylor. It always has been. Exactly. This is not a new phenomenon of humanity. Right. Right. I'm sure all the Medici's weren't geniuses. Let's be.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, thanks for the art, but come on. All right. Tell us. about the Zuckerberg film. Have you seen that one yet? Okay, tell us what's coming out with that. You know, it's interesting. I saw it and I interviewed Aaron and I'm interviewing for the podcast, but I did a special thing for him for a bunch of ex-Facebook people. I would say it's not as good as the first one. The first one, I love David Fincher, and I like Aaron as the director here. I just happen to be a big fan of David Fincher. And even though this one is more accurate than the first in a lot of ways. This one's about Francis Hogan. It's about the woman who takes those files and gives them to the Wall Street. It's about that to the Wall Street Journal

reporter, which proves a lot of stuff that a lot of us were talking about. I mean, I was talking about this in 2019. I just didn't have a document. What files were talking? This social media was degenerative to our society, that it was going to hurt us in ways that are very nefarious and privacy violating and meant these are these are like cigarettes companies I used to say that a lot and they just get mad at me and at one point I predicted the insurrection I'm like here's where it's going to go with this obsession with online and how it angers people and and and and even Elon Musk has been pulled into the in it's heard him mentally like being extremely online so it's about what's the wide it's a it's a similar thing to the must documentary why does this one person Mark Zuckerberg who

is brilliant in a lot of ways, but problematic at best, right? It should not be in the position to decide our fate for us. He's unaccountable. I would say he's uneducated about enough things. Why is he get to make determinations about all of us? Why does he get to push, why does he get to put his finger on the button of the kill switch? Why isn't the kill switch all of us get to decide what that moment is? And that's what is about. But it's really about, Francis Hogan, who gave these documents to the journal reporter that proved what we were all saying was happening inside of Facebook in many ways. Now, some people thought that Francis, in doing it, got Facebook to stop actually doing safety things.

Like, we might as well not count any of this because the minute we do, we're getting sued. Like, there are critics of her. But at the same time, it's about why is power residing in one single person and what can we do individually, in this case, Francis, played by, I think it's Mikey Madison, who's amazing in this role. What can we do about it? What's our power? And in this movie, she takes power and forces Facebook to reckon with what they've done. So that's what's called the reckon. And I've read that these tech, they don't think they've done, they're victims. They won't let their kids use their products. Some of them. Some of them. I think they are, you know, it's just like

rich people everywhere. They get the best food, the best training, the best, this and that. Again, that's not, that's nothing new. But it's, you know, they are very aware of the damages. They can see it. They can see it. What they like to do is two things. One is justify it. It's all for the good. Like when Mark put up the muse, the little soft, squishy thing, that's how they think. don't you want a charm that follows you around and tells you what to do? Oh, sorry, it made someone show up at your house. Like, I don't, I want a person, like, sure, a person that I can hold accountable, but this charm, what if it does damage to you in some way? Who's accountable for it? Is it the charm? Is it you? Did you give it access? And one of the things, I don't mind the idea of certain things being automated, emails, things like that. But I was looking at it, and I really think the Muse app is quite good, actually. It's the best version of this is called a or agentic or whatever you want to call it. Essentially assistance, you know, digital assistance. And I like it.

And I, and we're like, oh, so you're going to use a Facebook product. I like threads. It's a good product. Good product. I cannot give him my email or my calendar or access to my finances. No. I don't trust him. Right.

So how is it going to work? When is it going to be used? Who am I going to do that to? Who am I going to give that right to take over? my future. None of them. Because there's no regulation. There's no regulation. Not that I feel is, I mean, they claim, and who would be held getting back to the AI meeting, they claim they can be sued. But can't. But can't. Right. Right. In a lot of ways, they can't because of Section 230. But what if, what if Open AI creates an Ebola, a new version of Ebola and sends it around? Who's responsible for that?

Is it Open AI? Is it Sam Altman? Is it? You said on your podcast that you thought, that the accountability if crimes are committed by these missions that we have to charge the people with the crimes a perp walk yes they have to be you know look the banking people didn't go to jail they should have a lot of people they did in other countries but on this one we tend to not do that for our oligarchs we let them stay out and have new lives essentially but you know if they create some level of damage as it's a trivial to them they should go to jail both criminal and financial liability. I think financial liability would hurt them more. But criminal liability, it's happening

in California. Facebook settled for 17 billion. You think they settled because they just wanted to go away? That's a lot of money, even for them. And that's not a lot for them, but it's a lot. It's the beginning of a waterfall of negligence cases and product liability cases that are coming. And that's why they're desperate to keep Trump in power because he will say, no, we don't need any. And that that stupid thing they sign where they spelled the United States wrong? Did you see the stats? Unites. Unites.

Unites states. So you said they're desperate to keep Trump in power, which brings me back to the next term. I think AI could fix that, right? You would think. Hopefully AI didn't make that. Yeah. Maybe it was the bunny boiler. But you said they are desperate to stay in power.

They are desperate for this. The midterms are coming up. My audience, we are all laser focused on the hopium that perhaps we could have a blue tsunami. But we also are realists. What do you, aside from spending money. Yeah. What do you think these tech?

This isn't a money election. So what do you think? They have more money. They have more money, like, by far. And they have Musk and the rest of them. What do you think they're willing to do? You know, the worst case scenario is troops at the polls, scaring people off a polls, not saying these elections happened,

like putting it into question and holding up. up votes and holding up machines physically stopping the only like I like I when I wrote that in 2019 I said Donald Trump will who is who is sort of bunny boiled his people yeah to being crazy people will tell them then to attack the part the actual physical process when I wrote it I was attacked by the tech how dare you say that how dare you say that this could and I use the word insurrection in this column in the New York Times I said I see an insurrection happening and because this is his only choice so I always

think about what's his choice well there's two he could take his lumps and then cooperate with the democrats he might do that trust me and we might let him right like it's not without it's with he is not a true believer so he could change it on a dime right right so you could see him doing that you and accepting his fake because he doesn't really care he's such a selfish prick he's like what do i care about the republicans right there is an element of legacy what is his legacy going to be is he going to be, actually. I think he does care about that. I do too. So what is it? Does he want to be known as the most destructive and hateful present in history? Maybe a little, but maybe not. Like, and I'm not talking about kissing up to him by any means, because I think he's a sad, pathetic,

old man, really, who just wasn't loved enough and is cruel. That's pretty much it. But he's not my problem. It's the ones that facilitate him. Like, he is my problem, but I get him. Like, I get him. I do too. I get him. I get him. I get it. He's that person. And so, um, so it's, what do we do do about the ones who facilitated? What do we do about the cowards? What do we do about those people? And what, when do we let them back? Do we let them back at all? Do we, like, what happens? Straight to jail. Where's the Nuremberg trial of this? And I believe me, it's not on that level. What the Nazis did is on like an unprecedented level in modern, in modern times, not all times. For sure. But what is our version of that?

What is our truth in reconciliation? And how much should we stick with that and how much should we move forward? I think it's going to be the difficult parts. Because what I would like is when I was watching them all at the White House, one of the things that's stuck of me is, why do these people just not stop talking? Why is Alex Carpid always talking about things? Is he on cocaine? I have no idea.

He won't do an interview with me. None of them will do an interview with me just so you know at this point. Well, Ari Emanuel did. Good for him. He's got a set, right? NVIDIA guy. He begged me to be on stage at my conference when he was just a game-making chip guy, but he won't talk to me.

I think he's also full of shit much of the time. But none of them who are going to get pressed by me will be on, you know, they'll make their excuses. She just hates us. I'm like, oh, I don't. Actually, I know you. That's the problem you have with me is I get you. I actually understand you. Right.

You know, and they, but they don't have to anymore. And so, what are we going to do with them? What are we going to do them? And then what are we going to do about their technologies? And maybe they should sit this one, sit down. I keep thinking, I'm thinking of writing a piece saying, why don't you sit down now? Time to sit down, boys.

It's time for you to stop talking about everything. I don't care to hear your opinions about Ukraine. I don't care to hear your opinions about DEI. I don't care your opinions about anything. Y'all are talking too much and y'all need to sit down and let other people speak and have their own peace. Or maybe we should all speak together, but it's enough of you people.

Like, that's what's astonishing to me is they, you see them everywhere. If I see one more interview with Alex Carp, being crazy, whatever's happening with him. I just am like, why are we listening to him? Okay, final question. We have listened to him. Enough.

Yeah, enough with all of them. All right, final question. Last time is my grandmother would say. We saw this merger, go through with paramount. Yes, yes. And I am going through. It's going to go through. Yeah. And I am very over capitulators right now. I am fascinated by the fact that Musk and Tim Cook and all of these billionaires that we've been talking about

because a layman associates a billionaire with freedom. Right. No, they're not. They are so in shackles to the fragile ego of this man. Yeah. They are. One woman. She's got the more in prison they are. One woman. They get the more in prison they are. They're so imprisoned.

And I saw you on a clip talk about this paramount merger and you have a contract right now with CNN. I do. And you said, I will do whatever I can do to get out of it. Even though it's just till December, I went out. Fuck it. I'm not doing it. I'm trying to get fired.

That is liberation. It is. You are so much freer than these billionaires. So talk about, and I like that moral clarity and that conviction that I am. not going to get in the sandbox and play with this man. Well, you know, look, I don't, there are issues. This was a discussion I had with Ari last night was I don't believe in consolidation as the choice.

I think innovation is the way we were like, how can we make Hollywood more innovative, not how can we consolidate? Is that our only choice that we have to get bigger and let smaller and smaller amounts of largely white men be in charge, which is, again, nothing new? But I look, I'm in an age. I don't know where you are. I've always been this way, but I'm definitely at an age now. Like, I don't have to do this.

Why do I need to do this? I don't like you or I don't like what you do. I don't not like them personally. David Ellison is actually a very lovely person. No question. He's very polite. And he makes great movies and I appreciate all the top guns. I appreciate Mission Impossible's.

I love the Star Trek. Like, great, go do that. But what why do we have to? But I don't like what you do in news. And that's my little tiny nothing world. Someone called CNN to me, someone in that group said, oh, it's just a hemorrhoid. Like it's just a pain in the ass. I'm like, it's my pain in the ass.

And I don't want to work. I've seen what you've done at CBS. I don't like it. I don't, what has changed? Why do I have to forgive you? And you don't like me. And I don't like you. So like, or you don't like what I.

I'm saying and you own it, go for it if you want. I just don't have to be part of it. And so, and I have, I have choices. And that's the problem a lot of people at a lot of these news organizations, not just CNN. They don't have. There aren't choices. Everything's getting smaller. The ship is, you know, they're having to throw things overboard because they haven't

innovated the business plan. I can do that. I can say, you know what? I'm this age. I just don't want to look at you. Like, I know it sounds dumb. It does sound dumb. To me, it's like there's so little of that right now that when it happens.

I know people have gotten very interested, and I'm just a minor figure there, but I'm articulating what a lot of people feel. Right. They like take this job and shove it. Exactly. And I kind of, I've done it before. It's not like I haven't done it before. Like everyone's like, oh, look at what she's doing. I'm like, literally, I do this all the time.

And it's actually something I share with Ari Emanuel. He's left a lot of jokes because he didn't like, you know, he called them. dumbasses and imbeciles. He couldn't work for dumbasses and imbeciles. And he was like, give me a hard time about saying. And I go, literally this whole book is about leaving dumbasses and imbeciles. And I'm doing exactly what you do. And so, and it was like, fair point. Yeah, I can't get fired, unfortunately. I haven't been fired yet. You know, and I can't. Like, and in fact, we were working on a, on a renewal that was pretty interesting. And I just, I just don't trust them. Like, what can we do? What can we do to get you fired right here? I don't know. I don't know. I don't, you know,

You know what? I am a nothing, like, I don't think I'm a nothing to them because one of the things they've been trying to do is they attack me personally and, you know, through New York Post and stuff like that. And they also, you know, well, what do we, one of them said, well, you're irrelevant. I'm like, if I'm so irrelevant, why are you talking about me? Like, that's what, I'm like, I'm not irrelevant, obviously. I have power. And, and I think that it's just like, it sounds dumb, but I don't like, there's certain foods I don't like. I don't eat. I don't like leaks. I don't eat leaks. Stop bothering me when I tell you I don't want to eat your fucking leaks. Like I just don't. Like I'm gonna go somewhere else where I

like the food better, the place better. And luckily I am in a position to do that because I've made very smartly, I think, an entrepreneurial business like you're doing where I get to make the choices and I get to make the mistakes and they're on me when they happen. Luckily it's been relatively successful the whole time, which is great because I think I'm pretty good at it. But and it's my little, and it sounds dumb, but it's my little restaurant. And if I don't want to serve you, I'm not going to serve you. If I don't want to make something, I'm not going to make it.

And I don't want to own a chain of restaurants. It's my little world. And I want to, when I think about, and by the way, let me be clear, the people currently running CNN have been wonderful. I have nothing but regard for them. I love from the anchors like Caitlin Collins and Anderson Cooper, down to the people in the field, down to the managers, largely a wonderful experience. That's not it. It's just I'm not so sure about the new owners and I don't feel I don't want to stick around and give them the benefit of it out, right? I agree with you. Maybe if they change I'll be well, you know, look at what they've done with CBS. I don't like it. 16 minutes and they haven't changed it much and we have to hasn't changed. They went around and fired people, but it looks like the same spiking stories about I agree caught and all of the things that very wise did your mitts out of it. What do you care? It's a small thing. It's fascist collaboration is what

it is and maybe maybe not I just don't think they're good at it like people always like to say carrot's political and like it is and I just don't think you're good at it and I'm good so I'm good and I want to work with good people and that's what I'm going to do and what do you care if I don't like you or if I don't want to work for you like that's to me is the bigger thing is just let me go let me I think the insecurity and the fragility yeah that these people again I used to hear this phrase a few years ago billionaires shouldn't exist I was like what do I care if they make that much of my business. This class of billionaires is putting on a masterclass as to why they shouldn't exist. That's right. Now I have adopted that policy. Yes, well, because they're victims.

They're always the victims. That's one thing. And they're so, like trying to not pay taxes. The big beautiful bill, which was just a big grift, shifting money from working class. Giving money to Trump despite the eye. How could you? You have this incredible company that is worth, you know, trillions of dollars. And you could say, I'm going to do something incredibly innovative here. I'm tripling all of my employees. Yeah, you could. Salaries. I'm giving them extra vacation. I'm doing XYZ. And guess what? I'm still going to be rich AF. That's correct. They don't do it because nothing too much will never be enough. And I don't know why. There's a great book that I had on the CNN series I did, more everything forever. They cannot, there's not enough. And then therefore,

you know it's a yawning maw of need that never gets. The Tennessee Millen said the bottom of bottomless well. That's what I feel like them. And in my case, I'm like, I don't want to forgive you. There's a discreet chick song, you know, what's it called? It's like, I'm not ready to forgive that. Oh, yeah, I'm not ready to make nice. Nice, nice. I'm not ready to make nice.

I agree. And I may not make nice. But what do you care? You don't have to hang out with me. You don't like me. I don't hear, whatever. And it's not a bygones. It's I'm not ready to make nice.

I don't feel like forgiving and forgetting. And that's my trip around the sun for, for, whatever days I have left, right? But they really do care when you tell that to them. And I think it is powerful. And I do get stopped by a lot of people, a lot of journalists saying, thank you. Some journalists who are in the can for these people that are pro-power are like,

well, they don't care about care. I'm like, well, then stop writing about me if you don't care so much. Like, either I'm interesting or I'm not, one or the other, just pick your lane. But a lot of people do stop me, regular people, which is something I value from doing the podcast. and I'm sure you get this too, is people say thank you for saying for speaking out. And that to me is my reward. I don't need them to be idolatry of me. They're like, you made me feel better.

You made me think I could do something. And if it's easy for me to do that, I'm happy to do so. And I'm with you. I'm not ready to make nice. I'm not ready to give in. I'm ready to usher in the matriarchy. Yes, usher the men. Usher in the matriarch.

Not all of them would be good. I will even defer this. We'll put the lesbians at the top. Lesbians need to be at the top. At the apex. Not the ones out and miss that story. The passage. And not Candace Owens recently outed allegedly.

This has been a crazy week for lesbians. Who did she have? Oh, there's been all over. Candice Owens. Yeah, somebody's done this huge investigation that Candice Owens is a lessee. Not my experience. So, but okay. All right, Kara Swisher.

You know, anyone can do this. that. We're open for business for everybody, even if they're awful. It's fine. Again, I don't care. Right. Do what you want. Exactly. Just stay away from me. That's how I feel about it. I won't be dating her. Oh, I know that. I know you won't. You're not ready to make nice with Kansas. I'm not ready to make anything. Geras, We're sorry. Thank you so much. We're some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings.

The end of jobs, or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com.