Imaginary Worlds - Action Figureland

Episode Date: December 17, 2014

Kids may be aging out of action figures earlier than ever, but action figure collectables for adults is booming. I visit two of the leading toy shops, NECA and Sideshow Collectables, and I talk with psychologist David Shim, who has an impressive man cave of vintage heroes and villains.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We've never smelled so good. Shop Old Spice Total Body Deodorant now. Scotty, you're a doctor. Oh my God, that's beautiful. You're listening to Imaginary Worlds, a show about sci-fi and other fantasy genres. I'm Eric Malinsky. These were the first posable superheroes. This guy was called Captain Action. Captain Action actually had these little costumes.

And you could take the, you know, he had helmets and masks. Oh, so Captain Action could be any superhero you wanted. Yeah. You know, and this was all stuff that was, like, in the stores when I came to America. And, of course... What year did you come to America? 1969.

That is David Shim. When he was a kid and he came here from Korea, he fell hard for American pop culture. And he wanted all the Star Trek figures and the G.I. Joes and the Cowboys and Indians. He has them now in glass cases in the man cave of his suburban home. Hi, this is my wife, Anne. Hi. Hi.

So what do you think of the action figure collection? You know, it's something else. I'm glad they're in the basement. So when you first started dating, did he have a collection this big yet? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. He's had a couple little guys. Had a couple little guys, and then it just sort of metastasized into a mental illness, I think. Anne and David know a lot about mental illness because they're psychologists.

David teaches at Boston University, and he has a private practice specializing in young men who suffered from childhood trauma. Boys are pushed into what they call pseudo-maturity early, three to five or so. When you see a little kid crying, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, you know, rub some dirt on it, man up, that kind of stuff. And when kids are pushed away in that, you know, sort of early maturity, they turn to, you know, substitute figures in a lot of ways. Historically, fathers have been out working. So then they turn to like sports heroes and, you know, coaches, mentors. And I also think superheroes in a lot of ways. He's talking about his patients, but he's also talking about himself, too. He says these action figures are transitional objects for him. That's a psychological term for something that reminds you of a moment in your life

when you were moving from one stage to another. But transitional objects, according to a psychologist named D.W. Winnicott, who was an object relations guy, psychologist named D.W. Winnicott, who was an object relations guy, he actually looked at transitional objects as the first not-me, you know, objects that a kid uses as an extension of the self to get through difficult times. And in fact, Winnicott said that you never, those things, never, ever, they're never grieved. They don't mean as much, but they never become meaningless. So you hold on to them. See, it's funny,

because I was thinking, okay, this is obviously nostalgia. And for me, too, there's almost this Proustian memory of opening an action figure and smelling the plastic. But you're saying, I mean, it seems like nostalgia

is almost too broad a brush, that there's something much more specific going on. Which you're saying, I mean, it seems like nostalgia is almost too broad a brush, that there's something much more specific going on. Which you're thinking, when you said, you know, when you open up that action figure, which action figure was it? Oh, God. Well, it would be Star Wars figures, certainly. Okay, which one? Well, the big one was Boba Fett. Boba Fett.

Because Boba Fett was released before the movie. My feeling is I probably hadn't had a new figure in a long time. Yeah, yeah. Because they had run through all the Star Wars figures and that moment of opening the plastic where the thing was opening it up and smelling the plastic that had been inside the plastic see-through plastic case.

It's like that to me is just like, it's Proustian, that smell of happiness. Do you remember how old you were when you opened up that Boba Fett? Well, I mean, only by backdating it. I'm sure I was probably nine. Where were you at that time? Oh,

I was in the dining room. When you realize that what was happening at that time on a neurological level, by the way, there's research that's coming up in neuroscience that looks at three brain structures and they say that these things are like set in stone by the first year. And it's the hypothalamus, the medulla, right frontal cortex.

This is what we call the soothing, self-soothing, you know, axis. That smell, it's almost on a visceral level, right? Yeah, I can smell it right now as we're talking. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's a memory. That's a living memory. It's crazy. This moment of just pure joy

becomes the smell of plastic encased in plastic. You know, one of the reasons why my generation is called Generation X is because we didn't have these big historic moments that defined us, like the Kennedy assassination or the Vietnam War defined the baby boomers. But we did have something. I mean, it may not have that much historic value, but we were overwhelmed by Star Wars at a very early age and the pop culture explosion that followed. And Gen Xers are really kind of the big consumers now of action figures. And the figures have gone upscale. They're meticulously crafted, perfect likenesses of the actors. Even the packaging is beautiful.

I wanted to visit some of the shops where they make these collectibles. And my first stop was NECA, which is in suburban New Jersey. Alex Hanke is one of a dozen guys who are working at tables splattered with paint, covered with hundreds of toys, as you'd expect. When I was peeking over his shoulder, he was dipping his scalpel into gray wax. It's castelline. It's actually a wax-clay mix. And so when you heat it up and get it hot, it moves like Play-Doh. And then when it cools down, you can carve it and use jewelry tools and carve it like you're carving soap.

And what are you working on here? I'm working on the Heath Ledger Joker from The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight may have come out in 2008, but fans are not tired of Heath Ledger's Joker. They are still posting pictures of their figures with dramatic lighting, adding Instagram effects, which puts a lot of pressure on Alex. Working on his expression, I actually worked on it maybe like four days. And that's something you never know how long it's going to take. Like if I'm doing like gloves or a shoe,

like I know that'll take maybe like one day to do that. But with a face, you never really know like how long you're going to end up tweaking it. The expression was perfect, believe me. For a lot of the big properties, usually the studio has to give approval for the figures, but in some cases it's in the actor's contract. Or for some older movies like Alien, they had to track down the actors to approve their likenesses. We did Bill Paxton from Alien. You know. As that character, he's freaking out and scared the whole movie. We really pushed that and tweaked that face out so he looks like he's scared, senseless. And Paxton loved it, which was great. Randy Falk is the director of product

development. Traditionally, about 11 or 12 is when kids lost interest in action figures. Then I know when some of our younger guys here who are around 30, when they were in the toy design programs and in school, they were told that it was like 10. And now from some of the current graduating classes I talk to, they're being told it's like seven. The action figure aisle at Toys R Us is stocked with their figures and their competitors. And in fact, having them in the toy aisle is part of the nostalgia.

Some of the fans don't even want to order them online. People like to, you know, even if it's in package, they took sort of touch and feel at first. So they want to pick out the best paint job. And in some cases, they like the hunt. They like the chase. They know what days the stores get their deliveries. They're at Toys R Us, you know, waiting for the product to get put on the shelf so they can get first crack at it. The way it works is different companies bid for the rights to distribute characters at different sizes. So, for example, NECA has the rights to the 1989 Michael Keaton Batman at 18 inches tall. They can't sell it at 6 inches or 12 inches. Somebody else's license. So they decided to specialize in making smaller, more affordable figures, like the entire cast of Alien or Predator.

There's definitely guys out there that are much higher price point than we are, but the retails are well over $200. What we're trying to do is offer that same type of detail, but at a much more affordable price. Because while some people aren't turned off by that price, you're not gonna be able to collect them all. You're gonna have to be a lot more selective and maybe pick your top one or two. I mean, if you're really into something, you know, God bless, collect it, buy it. I've got a mortgage and family and I can't do that anymore. Oh, but people do. One of NECA's main competitors is Sideshow Collectibles in Los Angeles. They specialize in figures that are a foot tall, costing $225 a piece.

They even sell life-size Star Wars figures for $8,000. Including Boba Fett, who probably does not smell like plastic. This is such a sculpture nucleus. So right in here, the majority of sculpture that we do happens. Tom Gilliland is the creative director at Sideshow. Well, this room is really sort of a projected snapshot of the imaginations of the guys that work in here. So if you've been to the Haunted Mansion and you've seen Harry Potter,

then this room should resonate with you pretty clearly. So it's dark. These walls are purple with lots of deep staining. Oh, yeah. I just noticed that the walls are stained like they're really old. Absolutely. It's a little bit of shock and awe, right? So we get... Well, it's very sunny Southern California outside. Exactly. And inside here, it's, you know, an English Tudor mansion that's, you know, haunted by ghosts. Sideshow Collectibles is located in this big glass building deep in the San Fernando Valley. And they're huge. They have different departments for different aspects of the figure, you know,

the sculptors, the painters, the costume designers. And finding the right talent to work there is tricky. It's very rare for me to get someone who's 24 who walks in the door with a physical sculpture portfolio. So he hires guys like Earl Ellis. Earl used to work in special effects back when they were handmade. Yeah, but I'm trying to get out of that because it's pretty much a dying industry because now everything's digital. I worked for Rick Baker on Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes, and by the time they did the remake, the latest one, there's not a hair suit in it.

At Sideshow, he's doing the same work he did in the 80s and 90s, but at a really small scale. Yeah, and for a while, I used to own my own shop with a partner doing special effects. We had to do everything. We're jack of all trades. We did hair work. We did painting. We did the teeth. So coming into a company like this, this is a lot more enjoyable because your product doesn't change so much. It's not a whole crew of people who can change your work. It pretty much goes from design to finish and looks like what you thought it would. And that's kind of gratifying.

But there is a downside to catering your business around really intense fans. They may be your best customers, but they can be your harshest critics. It's nuts, you know, and it's kind of like forced knowledge when you work here. Here's David Aigo, who's the art director at Sideshow. Like, I didn't know any of those before I worked here. The difference between Darth Vader, you know, between all three films, he changes slightly, you know, and it's nuts. Like, there's a lot, especially, again, film accurate fan base. They're great, but they're definitely the most vocal about when something isn't right, you know? And then on the other side with comic books, you have fans that have an interpretation in their

head. They're like, Oh, this is the ultimate Batman to me. And when we, when we make our version of Batman, they're like, well, that's not what I thought is the best Batman. So I don't like it, you know, kind of thing. So it's a little bit of a challenge there sometimes. It's kind of a preference thing, too, because some people really want the figures to look exactly like the characters. And others, like me, I kind of prefer a more abstract version of the hero that I can project my imagination onto. Like, for example, Sideshow does a couple versions of Captain America, who is my favorite Avenger. If I was to buy anything from Sideshow, it probably would be him. But it looks so much

like Chris Evans. It just reminds me that Chris Evans is a real guy. He's an actor. Lives in Los Angeles, probably, I assume. And it just feels a little weird to be like, I own you, Chris Evans. I have a tiny version of you on my desk. I actually think that there's a need for some people to capture, you know, they can't ever really have Chris Evans in their life, but if they have a miniature Chris Evans, right, it means something. It's like, why do people get autographs and stuff like that? Yeah, it's almost like this is my selfie, my daily selfie with Chris. That's David Shim again, the psychologist.

I asked him if he thinks there's anything unhealthy about collecting action figures. I think that when you don't know your limits. So my first job was to try to find pieces that were missing to my collection. Then it became finding other figures that I never had to complete my collection. And at some point, I think that it became such other figures that I never had to complete my collection. And at some point, I think that it became such an obsession. Like, I couldn't get enough. Like, oh my God. You know, and then there's this kind of almost, I would say almost a depression, like this empty feeling where you're, I need to get these things. Like, there was a point when I used to, I learned through

collectors, you should get three of everything. One to open up, one to display, and one to possibly trade. And after a while, I was like, what the hell am I doing? This is stupid. So then I decided to get two of things. And then I realized, why am I getting doubles? I kid around with people and say, yeah, it's an illness. I'm a toy addict in recovery. You're a functioning toy addict. Yes, that's exactly right. You're a functioning toyaholic.

So let's say there are four glass cases here. Yeah. Each one has got four levels. Yeah. All of them, all 16 of them. Yeah. How much money do you think you invested into these glass cases? of them. Yeah. How much money do you think you invested into these glass cases? And the stuff on top?

Oh, probably over $20,000. Okay. I didn't pay $20,000 for them because if you're a real collector, what you then do

is you look for things. Right. The room itself is probably what? There's probably about $50,000 in here. That's not including

the boxes in the attic. But I think there's probably about 50,000 in here. That's not including the boxes in the attic. But I think there's something about the joy that they give us. And that's why we kind of protect them and bring them into our home. And in some ways, display them. You said we protect and display them. That is so interesting. This is the first time you've used the word protect. I hadn't thought about that.

Yeah. I think so. I think there's a whole dynamic because the piece that I didn't really tell you is that my, you know, my father was around, my father's still alive. He's a medical doctor and, you know, he was such a hardworking guy. He wasn't around and he was kind of a tough guy to live with, you know, had a, had an anger problem and stuff like this. guy to live with, you know, had an anger problem and stuff like this. But the few times in my life that I remember were times when my dad took me to the toy store and, you know, bought me stuff. You know, the toys always remind me of my dad, my relationship with him. And, you know, it's... Which was a difficult relationship.

Yes. It's gotten better as we've gotten, both of us have grown up. But, you know, as a kid, that was a tough relationship. Now, David has a family. He's got three kids. But I asked him, and this is, I kind of went on a limb here, but I asked him, you know, do you see yourself as like a father figure to these little plastic guys that you're displaying and protecting? Or I become, in some way, a father myself

by giving myself things like toys and giving myself fun things. Like when I would, you know, before the eBay's and stuff, sometimes I would, you know, have a long day on the way home. I'd stop at Toys R Us and I'd look through stuff.

And I'm like, I'm taking myself to the toy shop. And these things are real. They're tangible. It's better than substance use. It's better than other things. And the cool thing is they're toys. They're fun.

They're freaking awesome. They are. I kind of do the same thing. When I'm feeling depressed, I go on action figure websites, and I just love looking at the craftsmanship. And my mouse will kind of hover over the buy button, but I've never clicked it, and I'm not sure that I will. I kind of like leaving these characters ephemeral. I know it sounds corny,

but it kind of keeps the magic alive for me. There's also this issue. Can I, would you allow a, if I was to order an action figure that costs $225? No. Even one that is

beautifully sculpted? No. Even in the office? No. On my desk? No. Why? You lost me at $250 for an action figure. Even installment plans? No. Why? You lost me at $250 for an action figure. Even installment plans?

No. Oh, that's worse. That's it for today's show. Thanks for listening. It's not really an action figure as much as it's a collectible. No. Special thanks to my wife, Serena, David Shim, Rennie F Falk Greg Anzalone, Alex Hanke, Earl Ellis and my editor Carrie Hillman

if you like the show you can leave a comment in iTunes that would be really helpful you can also like the show on Facebook I tweet at emalinski the show's website is imaginaryworldspodcast.org. Panoply.